Worried About Comet Elenin? FAQs from Ian Musgrave

by Nancy Atkinson on July 20, 2011

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Orbit of Comet C/2010 X1 Elenin (red) visualised with Celestia, showing Elenin at closest approach to Earth. Image courtesy of Ian Musgrave

Astronomer and blogger Ian Musgrave from South Australia has been active in debunking the misinformation and nonsense that is being disseminated about Comet Elenin. He has written several wonderful posts featuring the actual realities of this long-period lump of dirty ice that has, for some reason, attracted the attention of doomsdayers, 2012ers, and end-of-the-world scaremongers. Earlier this week, Ian’s Elenin posts on his Astroblog were taken down by the web host, as someone filed a claim for alleged violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). “Given that there is no copyrighted material on these pages, with either material generated entirely by me or links to and citation of publicly available material, I believe this was just a frivolous attack on people countering Elenin nonsense” Ian said. Astroblog was not the only site that was targeted, and thankfully, Ian’s web host agreed that the claim was without merit, and the posts are back online. In the interim, however, Universe Today offered to publish Ian’s excellent “Comet Elenin, a FAQ for the Worried” post, and even though the original is now available again, Ian and I decided to still post this on UT so that more people with questions about Comet Elenin would have the chance to have their worries allayed. Have your questions answered below.

Will Comet Elenin Hit Earth?: No, its closest approach is 0.23 AU on Oct 16, 2011, where 1 AU is the distance from the Earth to the Sun. To put this in perspective, this is only a little closer than the closest approach of Venus to Earth, and roughly 100 times the distance from the Earth to the Moon. This distance is from the latest MPEC ephemeris which is based on over 100 observations from multiple observatories that have been continuously tracking the comet, so it won’t change appreciably.

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Surely if Elenin Was Going to Hit the Earth NASA/the Government Would Hush it Up? Which government? The Australian Government, the UK Government? The Italian Government? The South African Government? Amateur astronomers world wide are following this comet and continually talking to each other. The have the programs to work out where the comet is going. If the comet was coming anywhere near us, the amateur community would be first to know, and there is no keeping them quite. Consider how wide spread the information is about Apophis, which is a real, if extremely marginal, hazard.

Will it Cause Earthquakes, Abnormally High Tides or Other Disasters: No, Elenin is a mere 3-5 kilometres across and has less than a billionth of the tidal force of the Moon at closest approach (as well as a negligible magnetic field). If the Moon can’t cause the poles to tip, cause massive tidal floods or earthquakes, Comet 2010 X1 Elenin won’t. We’ve been closer to other comets before with no ill effect.

But What About Mensur Omerbashich’s Paper that Says Elenin is Causing Earthquakes? It shows nothing of the sort, earthquakes are no more common during comet alignments than at any other time.

But it’s bigger than Jupiter! No, that’s the coma , the thin haze of gas and dust that surrounds the comet nucleus. The nucleus of C/2010 X1 Elenin is roughly 3-4 Km in diameter and Elenin has a coma around 50,000 km wide at the time of writing (which is a third of the diameter of Jupiter). The average density of the coma is about the same as the density of the atmosphere on the Moon. A coma is a feature of all comets that approach the Sun closely, for example comet 81P Wild (nucleus 4 Km diameter) had a coma of 50,000 Km and 103P Hartley had a coma of 150,000 Km. The Great Comet of 1811 had a nucleus of around 30km in diameter and had a coma nearly as big as the Sun. Comet Halley is 6×15 km and had a coma 100,000 km wide when it last approached Earth. We survived them all (and 103P Hartley came nearly twice as close as Elenin will), and we will survive Elenin without incident.

But I Can See a Picture of it in WikiSky, it’s HUGE! That is the carbon star CW Leonis.

Is Elenin a Moon of a Brown Dwarf Star? No.

But Brown Dwarf Stars are so Cold, you Can’t See Them. No, coldest detected so far is ~370K (about the temperature of a hot cup of tea), the the warmest are around 2200 K, and most range between 500-1000 K. They may not produce much visible light, but they reflect light. Jupiter has a composition similar to those of Brown Dwarf stars. Jupiter’s cloud tops are a chilly 128 K and it reflects light just fine. Any Brown Dwarf in the inner solar system would be painfully obvious.

Will Going Through the Comets Tail Affect Us? No, should the rather small tail of Elenin actually pass over us, it’s doing a pretty good imitation of a vacuum (about 100 atoms per cm3). We have been through bigger and denser comet tails before with no effect whatsoever (especially the Great Comet of 1861).

Why isn’t Comet Elenin in the News? For the same reason that the other 16 comets discovered in 2010 didn’t get in the news, or the 5 comets discovered in 2011. They are all dim. The News is only interested in comets that are spectacular, readily visible to the unaided eye or are being visited by spacecraft. Comet 2009 P1 will be as bright, if not brighter than C/2010 X1 Elenin, but that’s not in the news either. Amateur and professional astronomers are watching comet Elenin and others avidly, but the news channels don’t care about our obsessions with faint fuzzies.

Why Can’t I Find Information of Elenin at the NASA Website? Because NASA is not the arbiter of all things astronomical. You won’t find information on C/2009 P1, C/2011 C1 or any of the faint comets discovered during 2010 and 2011. NASA does have information of comets that its spacecraft have visited, or are interesting in some other way, but it’s not an exhaustive comet site like Cometography or Aerith.

(editor’s note, NASA and JPL’s Near Earth Object Office did publish an article about Comet Elenin in May, 2011, which can be found at this link, confirming it will safely fly past Earth.)

I Saw Comet Elenin Near the Sun in August 2010/Now: In August 2010 only really powerful telescopes could see Elenin. You saw Venus. If you are seeing something bright near the Sun in the morning sky now, it’s Venus.

How Can I Tell What IS in the Sky and Avoid The Venus Confusion? For freeware standalone programs there is Cartes du Ciel and Stellarium (my favourite). For Web based solutions Skyview Cafe, Sky-Map and GoogleEarth (KMZ file here) all work.

Where Can I Find Orbital Elements for Celestia or Stellarium? Here.

Where Can I Find Images of Elenin? Here, and here and a nice image of C/2010 X1 near to NGC 3376 is here.

I have Photographed/ Seen a Photograph of a Double Sun, is this Elenin? It’s lens flare.

About Nancy Atkinson

Nancy Atkinson is Universe Today's Senior Editor. She also is the host of the NASA Lunar Science Institute podcast and works with the Astronomy Cast and 365 Days of Astronomy podcasts. Nancy is also a NASA/JPL Solar System Ambassador.

Tagged as: Comet Elenin, Comets, Elenin

Micheal Boehm

I have a couple of big problems with Ian’s attempt to extinguish people’s concerns. 1/ To simply dismiss the correlation or “coincidence” of the Sun-Earth-Elenin Alignments on 27/2/10, 4/9/11 and 11/3/11 with historically significant quakes is a telling ommission, on Ian’s part, and a failure to address the most basic facts of the phenomena.
2/ The massive heat signature in infrared from google sky from June 2007 comes from NASA’s own JPL coordinates for Elenin on the date in question.
3/ The Mother of all coincidences, The alleged discoverers name Leonid Elenin happens to codify the upcoming phenomena. (Hint : use google dictionary to look up the meaning of the terms -Leonid -Ele -Nin) Once you’ve done that,have fun picking your jaw up off the flloor!
4/ Very few people who have become alerted to the possibilty that Elenin is accompanying an object of great magnetic and gravitational influence, are suggesting that this object will collide with the earth. Simply that an object who’s alignment with the sun and earth at distances of 6.1 AU and 2.2 AU ‘coincided with magnitude 8.8 and 9.0 quakes respectively, may trigger even larger seismic events during the next two alignments at a distance of 0.37 AU, on or around 26/9/2011 and 0.53 AU on or around 22/11/2011.
Until Ian addresses these central basic issues, his abrupt dismissals of peoples legitimate questions and concerns are meaningless.
Micheal Boehm

I have a couple of big problems with Ian’s attempt to extinguish people’s concerns.

1/ To simply dismiss the correlation or “coincidence” of the Sun-Earth-Elenin Alignments on 27/2/2010, 4/9/2010 and 11/3/2011 with historically significant quakes is a telling ommission, on Ian’s part, and a failure to address the most basic facts of the phenomena.

2/ The massive heat signature in infrared from google sky from June 2007 comes from NASA’s own JPL coordinates for Elenin on the date in question.

3/ The Mother of all coincidences, The alleged discoverers name Leonid Elenin happens to codify the upcoming phenomena. (Hint : use google dictionary to look up the meaning of the terms -Leonid -Ele -Nin) Once you’ve done that,have fun picking your jaw up off the flloor!

4/ Very few people who have become alerted to the possibilty that Elenin is accompanying an object of great magnetic and gravitational influence, are suggesting that this object will collide with the earth. Simply that an object who’s alignment with the sun and earth at distances of 6.1 AU and 2.2 AU “coincided” with magnitude 8.8 and 9.0 quakes respectively, may trigger even larger seismic events during two upcoming Sun-Earth-Elenin alignments at a distance of 0.38 AU, on or around 26/9/2011 and 0.58 AU on or around 22/11/2011.
Until Ian addresses these central basic issues, his abrupt dismissals of peoples legitimate questions and concerns are meaningless.
- IVAN3MAN_AT_LARGE
  
  After 2012 has come and gone without any major incident on the Earth, and the insignificant Comet Elenin has disappeared back into Oort Cloud, you (and others of your ilk) are gonna look like a right charlie when everyone reads your (multiple) comment here in the year 2013!
IVAN3MAN_AT_LARGE

What if the mounted police in New York are neo-Nazis on zebras?
WaxyMary

@Jason Yeadon and in reply to Micheal Boehm

Micheal,

Is it your thoughts that ‘all is as you have suspected for years’ and ‘everyone who is not with you is actively against you’? If so, I have seen that happen to good folks, and they have talked about it when they returned to the sane world. I wish you great success in life by taking the easier road.

“I have great fear –so all must fear me” is not a way to live, to base your life upon, to think. Memes like this trap all too many in a cycle of unsanity.

You posit the existence of some massive object and a great conspiratorial gathering, to wit, “…Elenin is accompanying an object of great magnetic and gravitational influence…” and then state “…trigger even larger seismic events during two upcoming Sun-Earth-Elenin alignments…” as if the great large magnetic object was Comet Elenin.

Which is it please, because surely you are not stating that Comet Elenin is capable of the claimed displays AND that it is in orbit with some unknown but massive object. Oh, and while on that subject, please provide cites for your claims of any (S-E-E-some unknown but massive object) alignment damages, show the math as well please, indicate the mass of that unknown but massive object in standard units for mass and EM spectrum. I await your answer.

P.S. Assume as a given all other masses for these other known objects. The simple math for this was established several centuries ago, most educated 12th graders could do it if they had paid attention in class. Good luck finding one.

—

Jason,

In regards your actual question/statement/hypothetical:

1. Please tell us all what would cause any of those conditions to be actual
2. Draw straight lines to current theory as links in your hypothetical, after all, if you wish to engage in thought experiments it is on you to set the stage and posit the initial conditions
3. Follow through and indicate some expected result
4. Present to others for checking

It is for us to check your math and then carry your thought experiment away if it is sound and play with that one, as well as all the rest, in the sandbox of physics.

Mary
- IVAN3MAN_AT_LARGE
  
  Regarding funds, has it not occurred to you that the “Electric Universe” proponents are only out to make money from selling books to the likes of you, who obviously don’t have the necessary scientific education to discern real science from pseudo-science?
  - WaxyMary
    
    @Jason Yeadon,
    
    Last, you mean you are not going to defend the claim you are making, gosh darn it all, I was hoping for something more then the coquettish from you, “come chase me indeed” — you’ll go to your grave with what you learn, and unlearn in life. Take care to treat all knowledge as it deserves, inspect all packages before unsealing, and wear clean under garments like mom said, you know not when disaster will strike.
    
    You claim that there is some dispute currently in progress twixt the EU and SM folks when in fact there is no dispute currently and for some long time in the past. EU was checked against observations and dismissed, not out of hand but rightly, when it was not able to describe the observations, could not make predictions which could be tested, and in general fell down with the first of MANY enquirers. You know you subscribe to the theory which has the worst track record of ‘modern time’ speculations into the nature of the observed universe.
    
    Mary
    - IVAN3MAN_AT_LARGE
      
      Ditto!
- WaxyMary
  
  So, Jason, you get federal funding and do not wish to risk losing it, additionally, examining any bus from beneath is not to your liking. I get all that implies.
  
  I have an idea to help you with that problem.
  
  Create a different account.
  
  One which is NOT linked to you via twitter, facebook, or any other identifiable link back to you, your family, your friends, and workplace and THEN show us your math, proofs and whatnot. Simple, no?
  
  As to your claim of MY branding, that’s a large frying pan which you seem to be jumping around within, take care you avoid that fire, oh, and stop feeding the flames with fatty tissue, flareups happen fast.
  
  Dirty snowball vs stony aquifer vs mostly metal ores, some do show signs of gases, including waters of various types. Never once have we seen any body smaller than a proto-planet demonstrate any electric activity for any measurable length of time which can not be explained by standard theory. If the universe has a leaning, odd form of expression that, it seems to be ‘leaning’ in a different direction than you claim.
  
  You might want to recheck your reasoning and sources, and you might want to check yourself for ticks, fleas and spiders as these can reliably be found inhabiting many places which are infrequently visited by folks or those inhabited by shiftless slackers.
  
  Mary
phillip528

1556
- IVAN3MAN_AT_LARGE
  
  Attention, people! This is what happens when you take astrology too seriously!
Anonymous

Comet C/2010 X1 (Elenin) is a comet discovered by Russian astronomer Leonid Elenin on December 10, 2010. Elenin was using a robotic observatory near Mayhill, New Mexico.

I Saw Comet Elenin Near the Sun in August 2010/Now: In August 2010 only really powerful telescopes could see Elenin.
(Universe Today)

Please explain anomaly!
- Ian Musgrave
  
  It was magnitude 21 in August 2010, the magnitude of 21 for August 2010 is calculated from knowing the orbit of Elenin.
  
  Only the most powerful telescopes could have seen it at mag 21. They didn’t, but the point is that Elenin was so incredibly dim there is no way you could have seen it near the sun.
  
  By December 2010 when Elenin was discovered, it had brightened to magnitude 19, you still need quite powerful scopes to see it, but it was now within the upper range of high powered amateur instruments.
- http://themathskeptic.blogspot.com The Math Skeptic
  
  If that were the case, it would be named Comet C/2010 O1 (dotcom48). Or Comet C/2010 P5 (dotcom48), depending on when exactly you discovered it.
Anonymous

Comet C/2010 X1 (Elenin) is a comet discovered by Russian astronomer Leonid Elenin on December 10, 2010. Elenin was using a robotic observatory near Mayhill, New Mexico.

I Saw Comet Elenin Near the Sun in August 2010/Now: In August 2010 only really powerful telescopes could see Elenin.
(Universe Today)

Please explain an0maly!
Anonymous

Again, if anyone wishes to talk about Earthquakes and comets etc. etc. please feel free. However, backup any extraordinary claims with peer-reviewed scientific papers on the subject. If these are not available or there is otherwise no basis for your claims, they will be considered pet theories or pseudo-junk and promptly removed.
- http://www.facebook.com/people/Jynessa-Marie/100001682527880 Jynessa Marie
  
  Unless of course if those claims agree with yours, then they need no peer reviewed papers, they can just be posted. Only topics with which you disagree need proof. Cite me proof from NASA’s latest treks to comets that show the ‘dirty snowball’ theory is true. Here is one mission that disproved it: http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news116.html
  
  Here is another: http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/watchtheskies/skyf-20071030.html
  Let me Quote from the article ‘Periodic comet Holmes (17P/Holmes), a very faint comet far from the sun experienced an outburst and brightened a million times in just a few hours. The comet puffed up (it’s still expanding), changed color and wowed viewers around the world.’ All while moving away from the sun.
  
  Are NASA links peer reviewed enough for your standards? It looks like the old ‘gravitational pull / dirty snowball’ theory may need some work. Sorry I didn’t add these links to my post you deleted, but I suppose you’ll soon delete this post as well even with the links since it points that we are more of an electric universe and that is something you cannot let the public think about.
- Anonymous
  
  Unless of course if those claims agree with yours, then they need no peer reviewed papers, they can just be posted. Only topics with which you disagree need proof. Cite me proof from NASA’s latest treks to comets that show the ‘dirty snowball’ theory is true. Here is one mission that disproved it: http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news116.html
  
  Here is another: http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/watchtheskies/skyf-20071030.html
  Let me Quote from the article ‘Periodic comet Holmes (17P/Holmes), a very faint comet far from the sun experienced an outburst and brightened a million times in just a few hours. The comet puffed up (it’s still expanding), changed color and wowed viewers around the world.’ All while moving away from the sun.
  
  Are NASA links peer reviewed enough for your standards? It looks like the old ‘gravitational pull / dirty snowball’ theory may need some work. Sorry I didn’t add these links to my post you deleted, but I suppose you’ll soon delete this post as well even with the links since it points that we are more of an electric universe and that is something you cannot let the public think about.
  - Anonymous
    
    KSPepared, your first link – on the Stardust mission – says:
    
    “Even though we confirmed Comets are ancient bodies with an abundance of ice, some of which formed a few tens of degrees above absolute zero at the edge of the solar system, we now know that comets are really a mix of materials made by conditions of both “fire and ice”. Comet ice formed in cold regions beyond the planet Neptune but the rocks, probably the bulk of any comet’s mass, formed much closer to the Sun in regions hot enough to evaporate bricks.”
    
    So Stardust taught us something new about the conditions in which the rocky materials of a comet were formed. Nothing magical. Comets still have an abundance of ice. Rocky material is a lot heavier than ice, that’s why the bulk of a comet’s mass is probably rocky. The rocky stuff is the dirt in the snowball.
    
    Your second link is to a webpage about spotting a comet. An inactive comet’s visibility can increase dramatically when it emits a plume of material when it is rightly exposed to the sun. The comet itself is nearly invisible.
  - Anonymous
    
    “Here is one mission that disproved it: http://stardust.jpl.nasa.gov/n…”
    
    This is a link to the Stardust mission. It discusses the possibility that comets were formed under extreme heat in regions close to the sun – instead of in the Kepler belt and beyond. Other interesting trace elements were detected. It does not discuss composition ratios at all.
    
    For an article with more details on comet composition, see this like on a IR spectrograph analysis:
    
    http://pubs.acs.org/cen/news/84/i29/8429notw1.html
    
    Or for a more detailed analysis refer to:
    
    Yeomans, Donald K. (2005). “Comet” .
    . World Book Online Reference Center. World Book.
    
    Or for the NASA press release lovers out there (out-gassing points to a complex arrangement of ices and gases):
    
    http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/epoxi/hartley-2.html
    
    Your second link:
    “Here is another: http://www.nasa.gov/vision/uni…”
    
    The comet experienced a flare up. This could be caused by several processes. The most obvious of these would be a variable out-gassing rate. For an example of this refer to the observations of Wild 2 in your first link. Other processes could be adding to this, such as the comet out-gassing a more reflective element (carbon for example). In addition, a more reflective rock could be exposed to the observer, comet swelling, visibility due to external factors, or visibility due to the comets orbit/distance from the sun.
    
    It always make more sense to work the most obvious causes first before assuming the unlikely or the unproven.
    
    What has any of this have to do with electric currents?
bmtexpress

oct 16 wqill be here soon enough what will we fight over after that date ???
Anonymous

Around Nov 22 you can expect a much larger earthquake due to this comet. I’m also concerned about the comet not coming close or a possible hit to us but the debris following the tail of the comet. What I keep running across is how NASA and others are making this out to be a comet when infact there maybe much more mass than expected, being that around Oct 12 this thing can stop as it’s at it’s closest to us and if it has more mass it may be pulled by gravity into us if not I’m worried about the tail end and how much debris is behind it. I’m paying more closer attention. What is really baking my doodle in my noodle I call Minky boodle is this thing will really start to cause change around sept 11th. The morning of Sept 11th I woke up from a nightmare of being in a plane that was headed to a city. I looked out my window and could see just how fast we were going. I knew in the dream I was dreaming because I thought 1st how did I get on this plane. The dream ended as we were taking a nose dive and going extremely fast. I woke right up stood up completely full of swet and said to myself something wrong. Something is very wrong, that wasn’t just a dream. I said to myself, turn on the tv. I turned it on CNN had coverage of the 1st world trade center already on fire. I ran to my bro’s room he was on the phone and I told him what I saw, he said it was probably a small plane I said no this was a large plane you can tell by the hole. He placed the person on hold came into my room and we both witnessed the 2nd plane. We both looked at each other and he said we’re under attack I said we’re at war, at the same time. I tell you this because last night I had a dream I was at a party and suddenly we starting hearing what we thought of as fire works all to go outside and started seeing these small rocks coming at us dropping from space, some burned up others took out houses all around us. Those that ran into houses were killed all around me. I told a small group of my friends to stick with me because the best place to be is outside where you can see these things coming at you. We started just aimlessly walking, running dodging these things. As they started getting more severe my group broke up some went into 1 of the only houses left around us. The grass was on fire, pavement was turning into lava it seamed, houses completely burned away. My friend and her family only stuck with me as I tried to get them somewhere safe but didn’t know where. Then my friend said “OMG BEHIND YOU” This rock the size of a basketball stopped in mid air as it was right in front of me, I said to my friend these things have intel built inside. My friend told me to run, I said no I’m not moving or it will fallow me, I had that feeling it was going to kill me if I ran. I knew I was doomed. I placed my hand out and touched it and I woke up in real life again. Some of these people who are saying this thing Elenin is more massive than people think also say it’s as if it’s intelligent. It’s 1:33 am right now and I can’t sleep after this nightmare. God Bless everyone, to all the 911 victims and armys around the world united who have served faught and died for our peace in the world. Everyone keep your eye on this “comet” “planet x” or “intel terror object” whatever it is, start thinking of your family and a safety plan not just for this coming event but as this world gets crazier by the day.
WaxyMary

seanyboo wrote: (later removed by moderation)

Around Nov 22 you can expect a much larger earthquake due to this comet.

Can you tell us why this is to happen, what math can you provide please.

I’m also concerned about the comet not coming close or a possible hit to us but the debris following the tail of the comet. What I keep running across is how NASA and others are making this out to be a comet when infact there maybe much more mass than expected, being that around Oct 12 this thing can stop as it’s at it’s closest to us and if it has more mass it may be pulled by gravity into us if not I’m worried about the tail end and how much debris is behind it. I’m paying more closer attention.

Debris which follow or trail behind, err, follow and continue to trail behind, they do not really lose speed or gain speed, there are no hidden air pockets in which to “fly”, no hidden nets in which to be caught, if you add all the mass of the gases, dust spalled off over this most recent trip, loose rocks which lie under venting pockets and get nudged out to the debris trail, all of these things making up the comet and its followers, the mass is still less than — nevermind, you do not really wish to know. You are wanting to act scared, scared because you are not thinking about what Comet Elenin is but about a “thing” which is much different from this object and what IT could do to the world.

What is really baking my doodle in my noodle I call Minky boodle…

I think I know what bakes your brain, noodles and boodles are not the ingested substance, but real cute images you have there, do the wall breathe for you as well?

… is this thing will really start to cause change around sept 11th. The morning of Sept 11th I woke up from a nightmare … Then my friend said “OMG BEHIND YOU” This rock the size of a basketball stopped in mid air as it was right in front of me, I said to my friend these things have intel built inside. My friend told me to run, I said no I’m not moving or it will fallow me, I had that feeling it was going to kill me if I ran. I knew I was doomed. I placed my hand out and touched it and I woke up in real life again.

The dream you relate here is a common one, after watching too many horror flics. The one where your dream starts to morph, change and become another flic, I think that one is a three-parter, has dwarfs and a very hostile environ only reachable from the interior doors of the embalming room. There are lots of floating balls in that one, if you move they chase you.

Some of these people who are saying this thing Elenin is more massive than people think also say it’s as if it’s intelligent.

You don’t really want to ‘believe’ the folks who retell a story found in books and film — a flic many have watched, a scenario of invasion, being retold as if it were real, going to happen soon, and all this is VERY sincerely expressed and laid at the feet of some world group conspiring to turn the planet over to the invaders.

It’s 1:33 am right now and I can’t sleep after this nightmare. … as this world gets crazier by the day.

The common sentiment of the world becoming a more crazy place, day-by-day, is much like the ‘going to hell in a handbasket’ troupe; both give us hope that the process is too slow to affect us in the next week but do require a little bit of attention in the near future, mañana.

Drink a glass of water and go back to sleep.

Mary
- http://themathskeptic.blogspot.com The Math Skeptic
  
  “Then my friend said “OMG BEHIND YOU” This rock the size of a basketball stopped in mid air as it was right in front of me, I said to my friend these things have intel built inside.”
  ——
  I hope I’m not the only one whose brain hummed the “bum-bum-pa-bummm” theme when reading this.
Anonymous

I say nothing more other than look at this document immediately. It may be deleted or taken down any moment… Elenin comes first, Nibiru follows… Geographical pole shift potential up to a full 180 degrees at Nibiru’s perigee.

http://www.scribd.com/fullscreen/60725711

Nothing we can do if this is truth… Game over.
- WaxyMary
  
  @vasote,
  
  I took a brief look at the poorly formatted and edited, poorly researched and fact checked, non-paper at the location you indicated above. The work speaks volumes for itself… so I will not attempt to, nor should anyone else, go over the ‘facts’ presented one by one and refute this garbage.
  
  Your attempt at spreading the word about the immanent destruction of our planet has succeeded in making you look like a fool, to my eyes at least.
  
  Mary
Jef Jeffersons

I’ve got a question!

Is it possible that, that a second sun (the twin sun) belonging to this galaxy does exist, but isn’t near the sun. And that the comet C/2010 X1, is just circling between those 2 suns, one may be the dwarf, the other one the sun.

Is it possible to verify the other end of the orbit of that comet?

Just a question… (Because i found the long orbiting comets interresting, if it returns here and then it leaves, then it should turn somewhere else back to here, it’s because of gravity and speed it makes the turn here, but why shouldn’t it take the turn somewhere else also because of gravity and speed, but not our gravity that from an other sun)

Please respond,
Sincerely,
- WaxyMary
  
  @Jef Jeffersons [my comments inline look like this]
  
  You say,
  
  I’ve got a question!
  
  [Great, questions are always good to see, open minds are the place to be.]
  
  Is it possible that, that a second sun (the twin sun) belonging to this galaxy does exist, but isn’t near the sun. And that the comet C/2010 X1, is just circling between those 2 suns, one may be the dwarf, the other one the sun.
  
  [A twin sun belonging to this solar system is what you mean to state?]
  [the existence of a very dim brown dwarf companion star to our sun has been ruled out over many observations. The effect of that mass on our stellar system would reveal both the mass and distance to that brown dwarf via simple Newtonian equations we have have for centuries.]
  
  Is it possible to verify the other end of the orbit of that comet?
  
  [We have, that information however indicates no massive object at the other end, for this or any other long term comet we have observed.]
  
  Just a question… (Because i found the long orbiting comets interresting, if it returns here and then it leaves, then it should turn somewhere else back to here, it’s because of gravity and speed it makes the turn here, but why shouldn’t it take the turn somewhere else also because of gravity and speed, but not our gravity that from an other sun)
  
  [Answering your question a third time with this group of paragraphs;
  
  Many long term comets have been seen only once but we know they will return at a point in time in the future. Scientists at that time will have the records we made in this era to identify and recognize those objects from our notes now. This is record keeping, not star science, in the support of discovery. There are many such sub-groupings of science in service to science.
  
  The turn point of an orbit, like that of the earth's orbit does not exist, the pseudo-turn or endpoint, and you actually mean apastron or apopsis† here --that point at which the object is furthest from our sun --of a comet's orbit may change from era to era due to contributions from other planets in our stellar system's complex dance, just as earth's orbit is impacted by those dancing planets; it too impacts in some manner those other planets and our sun, albeit slightly since our earth is not very massive.
  
  This does not indicate any massive, sub-massive or hidden star at the other end of this comet's orbit however.
  
  The tugs of planets on the star they orbit is one of the ways we know there are those planets. We see the tugs of massive objects best so there is more of that data at present.
  
  There may indeed be objects we will see in the future which have a LONG orbit around our star the Sun, and some other star we presently can not image or detect, which is closer to us than the group of stars, the Centauri‡ stellar system, we have deemed to be our closest stellar neighbors. I do not however find the facts to support this view.]
  
  Mary
  
  † http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apsis
  ‡ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpha_Centauri
  - Jef Jeffersons
    
    @WaxyMary,
    
    Thank you for this answer, i meant really a star not belonging to our solar system.
    
    (It looked like i asked 3 questions, but it was still one question, but i wanted to clarify, frome where the question came.)
    
    Are there facts to support that view? (Is it worth searching for?)
    - http://themathskeptic.blogspot.com The Math Skeptic
      
      The Sun and other stars are all moving in different directions relative to each other. Even if there were a small dwarf star one light year away – which would put it within the Oort cloud – a comet orbiting both stars would take tens of thousands of years to get from one to the other. In the intervening time, both stars would have moved, so by the time the comet returns from its journey to the Sun, the dwarf star will be in a different place.
      
      It *might* be possible for an object to orbit the Sun and a very distant brown dwarf that’s gravitationally attracted to the Sun in some sort of long figure-eight orbit, but not for very long. Each pass around the Sun or the dwarf would either give it a gravity boost or slow it down, depending on its trajectory, and eventually it would either be ejected from the system or be captured by one of the stars in a smaller orbit.
      - Jef Jeffersons
        
        @The Math Skeptic
        
        Taken in to account that we are now talking over a million years timespan. This seems also logical, it reduces my question to something trivial.
        
        But thank you for stating it this way. It means for me, more studying to achieve a completer, correcter model. Where i should take in the possibility, that a cycle stops or transforms into some other.
        
        I only don’t know how it’s possible to eliminate time in the presented equations. Because all our given (calculated) constants are measured in our perception of time. (Even Einsteins constant is time based)
        
        Does anyone know if there are some existing theories, i should look into which tackles the time question?
      - WaxyMary
        
        @Jef,
        
        Your request is not clearly stated, please restate your request in terms common to all of science. If you are really asking — since we as humans experience time how can we measure some timeless quanta. The answer is clear, that quanta contains the measure of time as well as the measure of movement if mass is present.
        
        Can you show us the math please, as your statements do not indicate a grasp of the underlining facts which are determined by the observations and expressed as a theory, or as a hypothetical.
        
        I sense there is some agenda hidden within your questions, please drag it into the open air, give it full light for examination. Allow de-bunkers to thrash it, find reasons to dismiss it, for therein is the scientific method in truth. It [the tested item] might survive and take the place of some existing pillar, but the process is the key.
        
        If you do not jump on the merry-go-round then you can never try for the brass ring. Education is what allows us to determine which ride at the fair is the proper one for our present state of attainment.
        
        Mary
Jef Jeffersons

Dear, Uncle_Fred

It seams that my comment was deleted, it’s nice that you are reading all this.

Then read this:

You are deleting stuff with an eye of a typical narrow minded modern scientist. (Which is fine by me)

But you aren’t deleting the typical debunking stuff, which doesn’t contribute also to this thread!

Don’t forget, the biggest scientists of the world became famous by thinking, wondering out of the box, in their time frame. Not by stating all, that was stated before.

You can delete this also, which is the best, but i’am glad you read this.

Start wondering, start thinking, filosophy is also an accepted science!

Read the secret doctrine written by Batavsky, it can be an eye opener, if you make it to the end of the book. (Written at the end of the 19th century)

(Science and practising science altered in history many times, don’t be fooled, by stating that you know everything, you know only what was stated before, you’ve chewed it pretty well.)

Sincerely,
- WaxyMary
  
  @Jef Jeffersons again,
  
  Your post was never deleted, please have patience. The mods may well be requiring all posts to be marked as acceptable before they will be posted to the comments section for all you know. I responded to your ‘lost or deleted’ post just now in fact.
  
  As to the remainder of your irate posting, please take that tripe somewhere else.
  
  I answered your first ill formed and badly thought out question posting and this irate post of yours as you seemed to be only slightly under-educated for a middle school graduate but still interested in learning at the undergraduate level. I see now you are not of that ilk but instead are one of the nutters we get from time to time. Begone please, until you can learn patience and logic.
  
  Many have come to the fountain of knowledge,
  though few brought cups from which to sip,
  many from cupped hand drink, to quench the thirst.
  
  Do you know what washing your hands in the fount
  of knowledge is like to those coming after you,
  do you know where those hands have been,
  rhetorical questions, all of course, for to sip
  its sweetness is why you came. Drink Deep.
  
  Mary (never narrow minded, ever open minded)
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Secret_Doctrine for those wishing to inquire who the hell is this nutter talking about.
  - Jef Jeffersons
    
    @WaxyMary
    
    First of all, my excuses!!!
    
    You are the first person which has answered that question, logically. I’ve asked in the other post, did it also on other forums/blogs, always came an answer from a nutter debunker. (From their the inpatience)
    
    It may seem i’m just an other nutter, which is fine by me. It doesn’t matter.
    
    And actually i’m a graduate, but not in physics, an electronics/ict engineer.
    
    I thought it was deleted, until i found the Sort by combo box.
    
    Why, should it be interesting to read the secret doctrine? (And i know it’s Blavatsky (not batavsky))
    She has a remarkable eastern view on science, space and time. (I came to this book, by someone who was stating that Einstein had read it to. On page 148 there is clearly stated that all is mass and all is light)
    
    It’s just an other view, like their are so many. I’m certainly not convinced that that’s the only truth. Altough i’m convinced that science like it is now, isn’t complete. That we are using statistics for proving something is a lack of knowledge. (Imagine that an engineer makes a car or a software program, which is proven to work 6 days out of 7)
    
    Last of all, you to, can go nuts, looking at your reply. My question was ment to be asked at an undergraduate level, why? If i asked it differently, the answer wasn’t open, but direct.
    
    But still, i apologize for being that way, which isn’t a habit of mine, it became a frustration, that unanswered question. And thank you for answering logically!
    
    Sincerly,
    - WaxyMary
      
      @Jef Jeffersons
      
      You say:
      “It’s just an other view, like their [sic, there] are so many. I’m certainly not convinced that that’s the only truth. Altough i’m [sic, Although I'm] convinced that science like it is now, isn’t complete. That we are using statistics for proving something is a lack of knowledge. (Imagine that an engineer makes a car or a software program, which is proven to work 6 days out of 7) [sic, .]”
      
      My reply:
      Jef, one of many concerns I have with the current educational system is the capability the system has to produce degree impaired graduates. You are not the only example though so do not take too much away with you.
      
      The idea that all knowledge is just opinion and all opinions are equal in import, capable of fitting the real word truly, and of equal weight is a false view.
      
      Frankly, you are not educated, trained, informed, inherently bright enough to carry an opinion, much less express it publicly in the fashions you have demonstrated.
      
      Please look into the quality of education possessed by 5th graders at the turn of the last century. Compare that to what you know of your own.
      
      I’ll bring your words here for ease of reading:
      “That we are using statistics for proving something is a lack of knowledge. (Imagine that an engineer makes a car or a software program, which is proven to work 6 days out of 7) [sic, .]”
      
      Statistics is a common subject for any engineer; mechanical, electric, quantum, chemical, and etc. The fact you make plain above is that you have no background in the sciences despite your claims. Is english your native tongue or are you not inclined to reading what you write or say and taking some time in editing it before you post it?
      
      I do not blame you but I do blame the institutions claiming to have educated you at ANY level, 1-6th grades, 7-9th grades, 10-12 grades, working toward an undergraduate degree. Tutors, teachers and parents all, and all of those humans with input into you are to blame; all have failed to instill in you a love of knowledge for its own sake, so to fill the need you latch on to what makes sense to your underdeveloped brain, the results are what we see here. Please self educate, it is never too late.
      
      Look up postmodern philosophy of education such as the article below. The article was chosen at random, btw, from the search results.
      
      http://www.ed.uiuc.edu/eps/PES-Yearbook/93_docs/BECK.HTM
      
      Then look up the philosophy of education which came before what is current. See how each differs from the other. Some of these exercises are left to you, complete them as you may for it is your time to benefit.
      
      Mary
- Anonymous
  
  I only delete posts if I feel they fall under the following categories:
  
  1. Spam, advertising, multiple postings, links to products or off-topic material, run-on paragraphs, typing in capital letters or other obnoxiousness.
  
  2. Postings that contain religious/extremist ideological pronouncements, or other completely off-topic conversations.
  
  3. Abusive language directed at other commentators/writers.
  
  5. Comments that contain an overt or hidden pseudoscience agenda.
Anonymous

The problems that people have in believing these untruths is two fold:

1. They dont’t trust governments and there is some justification for that attitude.
2. They don’t know how to dig out the truth themselves. They must depend upon others and with the propensity of people to distust governments they can (and do) fall prey to people who do not tell the whole truth (Intentionally or not).
When I first heard about Elenin it was from a dear friend who fits the situation in number 1 above. Since I know him to be a very good man who would probably be willing to listen to what I might turn up I immediately started to search the intenet for information about brown dwarfs. Finding that the smallest would have to be only a little more massive than Jupiter I searched for the diatance that it was (at that time) from us. As it was less than the distance of Jupiter from our planet or 4 to 6 AU. (An AU is distance of the Earth from the Sun,) My next question was, can you see it from our planet? After all it should be at least as bright with reflected sunlight as Jupiter is.
Of course he could not. I recommended him to the Sydney Star Gazers site and soon he was telling me as well as others what they were observiing.
He still is suspicious of governments, especially ours here in the USA, But he now knows a little more about how to dig out the truth himself. Will he do it next time? Probably not but with patience I expect that if not next time then perhaps the time after that or …
And he is still my friend.
Really what we need to do is to help others is to respect them and help them to learn how to solve this type of problem. As illustrated above it really doesn’t require degrees in physics or Astrophysics. It requires a willing mind and a few research skills.
I hope that as amateur astronomers and professionals that we can start to do this. People are not stupid. They need a little knowledge the help them to overcome their ignorance and the resulting fear. If enough of us were to start using quiet voices perhaps we couod turn this abuse of people who really want to know into more people who can and will TTPT, think the problem through.
Charley C. Langley Jr. Vernal, Utah, USA
Anonymous

The problems that people have in believing these untruths is two fold:

1. They dont’t trust governments and there is some justification for that attitude.
2. They don’t know how to dig out the truth themselves. They must depend upon others and with the propensity of people to distust governments they can (and do) fall prey to people who do not tell the whole truth (Intentionally or not).
When I first heard about Elenin it was from a dear friend who fits the situation in number 1 above. Since I know him to be a very good man who would probably be willing to listen to what I might turn up I immediately started to search the intenet for information about brown dwarfs. Finding that the smallest would have to be only a little more massive than Jupiter I searched for the diatance that it was (at that time) from us. As it was less than the distance of Jupiter from our planet or 4 to 6 AU. (An AU is distance of the Earth from the Sun,) My next question was, can you see it from our planet? After all it should be at least as bright with reflected sunlight as Jupiter is.
Of course he could not. I recommended him to the Sydney Star Gazers site and soon he was telling me as well as others what they were observiing.
He still is suspicious of governments, especially ours here in the USA, But he now knows a little more about how to dig out the truth himself. Will he do it next time? Probably not but with patience I expect that if not next time then perhaps the time after that or …
And he is still my friend.
Really what we need to do is to help others is to respect them and help them to learn how to solve this type of problem. As illustrated above it really doesn’t require degrees in physics or Astrophysics. It requires a willing mind and a few research skills.
I hope that as amateur astronomers and professionals that we can start to do this. People are not stupid. They need a little knowledge the help them to overcome their ignorance and the resulting fear. If enough of us were to start using quiet voices perhaps we couod turn this abuse of people who really want to know into more people who can and will TTPT, think the problem through.
Charley C. Langley Jr. Vernal, Utah, USA
- WaxyMary
  
  @Astroprof,
  
  In many cases I agree with what you state here. In some cases it is evident there is a deficit which would preclude the furtherance of enlightenment. For the latter a wake-up call is needed, wouldn’t you agree?
  
  Mary
  - Anonymous
    
    Disqus generic email templateMy answer was of course simplistic and was meant to stimulate thought and encouragement on the part of those of us who could help resolve the probem. People have a range of opportunities for education, to learn critical thinking, capabilities and motivations gain and use learned skills. How do you provide a wake up call? I would really like to know.
    The text books that I have examined from grade school through the college level are generally well written and most of the teachers that I have associated with are serious and good in their teaching methodologys. I taught as an adjunct professor in the physical sciences for a few years after my retirement. I liked my students. All of these courses taught critcal thinking skills. The students showed little desire to gain them. The mental effort seemed too much. It was easier slip by anyway that they could. Without these skills partial information can be turned into a lie. Otherwise good people can be mislead and the results can lead them to disaster. Can they be helped. Can any of our societies problems in these areas be addressed and solved? I think that it is possible. I don’t think that it is probable. Learning for the thrill of it must be taught somewhere and for me it was my parents home. I was never told: “don’t ask me stupid questions.” If my parents didn’t know the answer my mother who had a good highschool education would have me look it up in the families ‘Book of Knowledge’ encyclopedia. If the answer couldn’t be found there then we took advantage of the library and sought the answer there. Now I seek answers from my own collection of books or the internet. This methodology had helped with all of my children. They all know how to TTPT, Think The Problem Through. Could we encourage or help others learn some of these skills. Yes. Will we? The choice is theirs to listen and ours to patiently teach. Will it happen? I hope so, I fear not.
    
    Charley Langley
    - WaxyMary
      
      @Astroprof,
      
      I liked your read on recent resources and current methodology among the teachers you have experienced as both a student and as a co-worker.
      
      Motivation will be provided until the factors change is the current solution, something like, the beatings will continue until moral improves. What if the solution is continued motivation, can we all accept the results of that, the exaustion
      
      “People have a range of opportunities for education, to learn critical thinking, capabilities and motivations gain and use learned skills. How do you provide a wake up call? I would really like to know.”
      
      Students & Teachers:
      
      Friends of mine who teach groups tell me there are 4 groups in just about any class or age level.
      
      1. Those who will learn from instruction and retain the knowledge for some little time.
      
      2. Those who will not learn because they are not tuned in to the quest for knowledge but, if tested, score well enough by rote work; less retention over time, but can be retrained.
      
      3. Those you can not hold back from the pool of knowledge, best to do for them is to instill order (to some extent, no need to cripple their creative skills as well) and a sense of personal purpose seeking. Enlist as tutors if possible, hope they are not beaten after class.
      
      4. Those who will never learn no matter what is done or provided.
      
      The hard facts of this listing reveal the best path through the tulips.
      
      Determine where each fits, at that time (make additional determinations as needed at later times), in the class, and create the best mix for all from the abilities of those present. Shuffle as needed. Attempt to give to each what works from your training and experience, broaden both as you can.
      
      Waste no more time on any one student than you spend with the best learner. All need the assistance from time to time. One of the hardest jobs as a teacher is to do nothing at the correct time. As in humor, timing is the key.
      
      Enlist those with tutoring skills for training those needing rote training to scrape by; hope they can ‘get through’ to the under-achievers and instill some amount of respect for the self-learning process so as to provide some support for their future needs. Hope they are not forced to provide homework results for the under-achiever.
      
      Leadership:
      
      Determine those un-training and under-assisting teachers’ lack of skills — provide solutions. This is a reformation task of course.
      
      Wake-up Call:
      
      The wake-up call for most folks is a face to face civil encounter. Since fears magnify fears, and kindness begets kindness, attempt to provide these, your students or teaching staff with tools to allay and magnify.
      
      If these courses of action do not work, try again. Triage is a hard task, some folks can be invaluable, others should not be involved — ask yourself, which of the 4 groups are you, today.
      
      Best student I had was myself, always a problem child if not a problem solver. Never a problem seeker, never a bully.
      
      There is always some mix of these factors present, will your days allow you to provide a decision or will derision be your lot today.
      
      Those who game the system become the system. a dire thought indeed.
      
      Mary
      - Anonymous
        
        Disqus generic email templateWaxyMary
        
        Thank you for your comments. I would have like to have been a better professor. I surely spent almost all of my discretionalry time preparing and trying to improve the course. If I have another opportunity to teach your council will be invaluable. Your email revealed to me that you know your profession and sincerely desire to teach your students, not just the subject.
        Sadly there is virtually no available tutors in Astronomy at the community college where I taught. It is a small school and has limited resources. There is no one to grade papers and exams, There are no lab assistants. The head of the Science Department helped al that his limited time allowed him to do. The college President did provide wonderful ten – 8 inch tracking telescopes and after I left finished a 16 inch ‘teacher demonstration telescope’ was completed.
        Unfortunately a new Dean decided to drop Astronomy at the community college where I was teaching and I have aged another year (I am now 71). It is unlikely that I will be able to teach again.
        Sincerely
        
        Charley Langley (Astroprof)
        
        —– Original Message —–
        From: Disqus
        To: charleyc@ubtanet.com
        Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2011 7:42 AM
        Subject: [universetoday] Re: Worried About Comet Elenin? FAQs from Ian Musgrave
        
        WaxyMary wrote, in response to Astroprof:
        
        @Astroprof,
        
        I liked your read on recent resources and current methodology among the teachers you have experienced as both a student and as a co-worker.
        
        Motivation will be provided until the factors change is the current solution, something like, the beatings will continue until moral improves. What if the solution is continued motivation, can we all accept the results of that, the exaustion
        
        “People have a range of opportunities for education, to learn critical thinking, capabilities and motivations gain and use learned skills. How do you provide a wake up call? I would really like to know.”
        
        Students & Teachers:
        
        Friends of mine who teach groups tell me there are 4 groups in just about any class or age level.
        
        1. Those who will learn from instruction and retain the knowledge for some little time.
        
        2. Those who will not learn because they are not tuned in to the quest for knowledge but, if tested, score well enough by rote work; less retention over time, but can be retrained.
        
        3. Those you can not hold back from the pool of knowledge, best to do for them is to instill order (to some extent, no need to cripple their creative skills as well) and a sense of personal purpose seeking. Enlist as tutors if possible, hope they are not beaten after class.
        
        4. Those who will never learn no matter what is done or provided.
        
        The hard facts of this listing reveal the best path through the tulips.
        
        Determine where each fits, at that time (make additional determinations as needed at later times), in the class, and create the best mix for all from the abilities of those present. Shuffle as needed. Attempt to give to each what works from your training and experience, broaden both as you can.
        
        Waste no more time on any one student than you spend with the best learner. All need the assistance from time to time. One of the hardest jobs as a teacher is to do nothing at the correct time. As in humor, timing is the key.
        
        Enlist those with tutoring skills for training those needing rote training to scrape by; hope they can ‘get through’ to the under-achievers and instill some amount of respect for the self-learning process so as to provide some support for their future needs. Hope they are not forced to provide homework results for the under-achiever.
        
        Leadership:
        
        Determine those un-training and under-assisting teachers’ lack of skills — provide solutions. This is a reformation task of course.
        
        Wake-up Call:
        
        The wake-up call for most folks is a face to face civil encounter. Since fears magnify fears, and kindness begets kindness, attempt to provide these, your students or teaching staff with tools to allay and magnify.
        
        If these courses of action do not work, try again. Triage is a hard task, some folks can be invaluable, others should not be involved — ask yourself, which of the 4 groups are you, today.
        
        Best student I had was myself, always a problem child if not a problem solver. Never a problem seeker, never a bully.
        
        There is always some mix of these factors present, will your days allow you to provide a decision or will derision be your lot today.
        
        Those who game the system become the system. a dire thought indeed.
        
        Mary
        
        Link to comment
Anonymous

Nice and neat
Thanks for this post. But I have a question regarding Elenins size. So far, and I’ve been following the topic since Elenin was discovered, there is no information that holds the ground about the size of the comet. Only estimation, which is not good enough, at least for me.

If anybody has information about the size, please let me know.

Regarding cometrs tail I quote Wiki about the Great Comet from 1861 you are refering to.
Quote: “The comet of 1861 interacted with the Earth in an almost unprecedented way. For two days, when the comet was at its closest (0.1326 AU), the Earth was actually within the comet’s tail, and streams of cometary material converging towards the distant nucleus could be seen. By day also the comet’s gas and dust even obscured the Sun.” Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C/1861_J1
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kheider Kevin Heider
  
  We know that comet Elenin is much smaller than the Great Comet Hale-Bopp. Comet Hale-Bopp was was discovered on July 23, 1995 when it was 7.1AU from the Sun. Elenin was discovered on December 10, 2010 when it was 4.2AU from the Sun.
  
  Comet Hale-Bopp was estimated to be ~60km in diameter. On 2011-Feb-10 Elenin was 3.5AU from the Sun (mag 18.5 as seen from Sun) and 2.7AU from the Earth at magnitude 18. When Hale-Bopp was 3.5AU from the Sun (1996-Aug-08 @ magnitude 8.8 as seen from Sun), it was also 2.7AU from the Earth at magnitude 8.3. At 3.5AU from the Sun and 2.7AU from the Earth, Hale-Bopp was roughly 7,600 times brighter (2.512^(18-8.3)) than Elenin at the same distance.
  http://www.springerlink.com/content/pr2756540kx94403/
  
  So, yes we do know that Elenin is a small typical comet.
  - Anonymous
    
    Hi Kevin,
    Lucky you The rest of us must wait till somebody actually measures the thing.
    - WaxyMary
      
      @pexon yet again,
      
      The measurements HAVE been made. We do know for sure the LIMITS and some margin of error.
      
      We know it is no larger than a figure and no smaller (yet) than a figure both with reasonable error limits, you reject that system of measurements and provide no reason.
      
      When we measure a room with a tape measure and we find it is just about so long and so wide we say it is that rounded figure in sq feet, square meters or the cubic of either. There is NO difference with this set of figures and the method of obtaining them. The tape can only measure what you place it against you must think. Try a different way dude.
      
      You want to climb or cut the flag pole when other, better methods are known, please repeat and this time learn your lessons in grammar school. Please stop re-posting your doubts and fears as comebacks.
      
      What exactly are you implying with your repeated comment of “no one knows, for sure, dudes”. We do know for sure the LIMITS, if you are not comfortable with that data, then explain WHY your discomfort exists.
      
      Then explain the probable solution to your dilemma, and use small words, because I, like many here, am tired of your lack of sighted vision and/or reading comprehension as re this particular comet; a rather ordinary comet as has been explained many many times before.
      
      Mary
Anonymous

Nice and neat
Thanks for this post. But I have a question regarding Elenins size. So far, and I’ve been following the topic since Elenin was discovered, there is no information that holds the ground about the size of the comet. Only estimation, which is not good enough, at least for me.

If anybody has information about the size, please let me know.

Regarding cometrs tail I quote Wiki about the Great Comet from 1861 you are refering to.
Quote: “The comet of 1861 interacted with the Earth in an almost unprecedented way. For two days, when the comet was at its closest (0.1326 AU), the Earth was actually within the comet’s tail, and streams of cometary material converging towards the distant nucleus could be seen. By day also the comet’s gas and dust even obscured the Sun.”

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C/1861_J1

regards,
Petar
Anonymous

Nice and neat
Thanks for this post. But I have a question regarding Elenins size. So far, and I’ve been following the topic since Elenin was discovered, there is no information that holds the ground about the size of the comet. Only estimation, which is not good enough, at least for me.

If anybody has information about the size, please let me know.

Regarding cometrs tail I quote Wiki about the Great Comet from 1861 you are refering to.
Quote: “The comet of 1861 interacted with the Earth in an almost unprecedented way. For two days, when the comet was at its closest (0.1326 AU), the Earth was actually within the comet’s tail, and streams of cometary material converging towards the distant nucleus could be seen. By day also the comet’s gas and dust even obscured the Sun.” Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C/1861_J1

Regards,
Petar
- Anonymous
  
  “By day also the comet’s gas and dust even obscured the Sun. ”
  
  Petar, notice that no references for this statement are given in Wikipedia (and in this case should be challenged). I’d be interested if a statement to this effect appeared in the popular press (likely) or a scientific journal.
  - Anonymous
    
    Jon, point noted. There is no valid reference in that article.
    
    But that was exactly my point too. Let me explain.
    I understand this is a place we talk science. I have deep respect for todays science. We are greatly what we are today thanks to the science.
    What I’m pointing out here is that in nowadays scientific circles you can’t get scientific answer. In this case, they are stating that the size is 3km (or whatever). But in the reality, they don’t have a clue. They might know some stuff for certain, but the size is merely an estimate. Later would be scientific statement. Not doing so produces false conspiracy theories and undermines scientific credibility.
    And I’m hoping too nothing will harm us.
    
    Regards,
    Petar
- WaxyMary
  
  @pexon,
  
  This is a comet we are discussing after all, and like all such is going to change, decrease in mass on a daily basis, speed along its path to met the sun and then continue along the path to join the void, only to return since this comet is a long period comet.
  
  The size of what part of the comet. The length of which tail, the average diameter of the nucleus, the average diameter of the coma, the length and cubic of the debris swarm following. These are all figures which vary from day to day. Any figures you get will be superseded in spans of time we measure with charts on a wall.
  
  If what you wish to know is only estimation then ask yourself, is the estimation accurate enough, for you the answer is no, for others that set of figures and the limits of error are more than enough.
  
  What purpose do you have for the ‘exact’ size… why isn’t the average size of nucleus over time vs distance traveled enough for some reason. The remainder of figures for the terms such as I indicate above are ephemeral -they change rapidly. Some debris will not survive the passage round the sun, most of the gases in the coma will add to the thin gas of our system, these are just some of the reasons I ask the question.
  
  Mary
  - Anonymous
    
    Mary,
    of course, we all know it is not all about the size. I was making a point about one part of the article. See my reply to Jon if interested.
    Petar
    - WaxyMary
      
      @pexon,
      
      Let us say, for the sake of argument, the ion or debris tail of that comet did appear to engulf the position the Earth was describing at that time in its travel about our Sun.
      
      1. If the tail is much as we commonly entertain from our current knowledge then the Earth’s sky was capturing some of the ionized gases from the outgassing of the comet. There is a lot of thickness to our atmospheric shell(s). Our magnetic field will also be impacted –to no great extent though.
      
      2. If the two tails happen to be aligned with the position of Earth there will be stony debris as well as the ionized gases. This would not be uncommon at all, each year the Earth passes through the paths described by prior comets’ tails. These events give rise to the meteor showers. In that event we would be within the passing tail and not just passing through the path the tail passed, if that makes any sense to you.
      
      3. The currents of space within our system are filled with remnants, debris from the passage of prior comets, asteroids and what not. The spalling of these tiny fragments is not the same as the calving of very large comets into additional large chunks.
      
      Unless these items are large enough to be seen in the EM spectrum we monitor and great enough in mass and/or EM field strength to effect our planet, and additionally pose a very close passage, there is never any need to pay much attention to them by the general public. We all like a great show in the skies, of course, and if this comet was to display such then we would all be looking up. The simple facts do not support that view though and those pseudo-facts being drummed in the scary night are so untrue as to make anyone who has a lick of common sense shudder at the onslaught of trivial questions, answers to which could be easily discovered by consulting any standard encyclopedic reference book or system. This comet, for example, will not come any nearer to our Earth than the distance of about 1/2 the distance from Earth to the Sun in length and will not track our plane of orbit.
      
      Additionally I wish to state very plainly that your several postings do indicate your thoughts. These thoughts about needing to know the exact size are very telling so please do not pretend you are just asking, or just talking about the ‘one thing’ in some article (which you posted as some type of evidence to support your fears).
      
      Mary
Anonymous

I want to know if this asteroid 2005 YU 55 is a threat as it shows in this Graph to come very close to Earth passing by in November ? see the Graph jere in this Link that Shows asteroids and comets Elenin , Levy and 2005 YU 55 , here are 2 links that show the Graph ; http://www.ufo-blogger.com/2011/04/nasa-elenin-2011-comet-planetary.html , and , http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news171.html

They say it misses but BUT what promoted this Letter that came out Last October from the Whitehouse Science CZAR John Holdren with Warnings as to preparing agencies of potential events ?? Source: http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/microsites/ostp/ostp-letter-neos-house.pdf

In breaking down this letter, it’s important to address several questions that have since more recent information come to light.

After the letter above clearly shows how important it is to monitor such incoming objects due to their propensity to “change” orbit?

Why was it that NASA turned off the granddaddy of all NEO (Near Earth Objects) telescopes & SETI ATA this year.

Flashback Quote:

The WISE spacecraft will remain in hibernation without ground contacts awaiting possible future use.
Feb. 17, 2011Space.com http://www.space.com/10895-nasa-wise-space-telescope-mission-ends.html

The SETI ATA has been in hibernation – a safe mode of sorts, where “the equipment is unavailable for normal observations since April 15, 2011. Universetoday.com http://www.universetoday.com/85121/budget-woes-put-setis-allen-telescope-array-into-hibernation/

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