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Hawaiian Man Files Lawsuit Against the Large Hadron Collider (LHC)

Article Updated: 26 Dec , 2015

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The Large Hadron Collider (LHC) is set to go online in May of this year. This magnificent machine will accelerate particles and collide them at such high energies that scientists expect to make some of the biggest discoveries ever about the very small (exotic sub-atomic particles) and the very large (the structure of the Universe itself).

But not everyone is happy. Particle accelerators have always been the source of controversy; at the end of the day, we can only predict the outcome of the LHC experiments. But what if scientists have overlooked something? What if the theories are wrong? A guy living on the other side of the planet to the LHC believes the world may come to an end and he’s begun filing a lawsuit against the completion of the accelerator. The concern? A massive black hole might be created, or vast amounts of antimatter will destroy the Earth. And where’s the scientific basis for all this panic? Hmmm… didn’t think so…

Through fear that the LHC is going to unleash death and destruction on the world, Walter Wagner from Hawaii has filed a lawsuit against an impressive array of defendants. The U.S. Department of Energy, the Fermilab particle-accelerator near Chicago, CERN and the National Science Foundation (NSF) are all named.

Wagner and his associate Luis Sancho have a pretty dubious (and quite frankly, weak) argument against the LHC, as they describe in the lawsuit:

The compression of the two atoms colliding together at nearly light speed will cause an irreversible implosion, forming a miniature version of a giant black hole. […] Any matter coming into contact with it would fall into it and never be able to escape. Eventually, all of earth would fall into such growing micro-black-hole, converting earth into a medium-sized black hole, around which would continue to orbit the moon, satellites, the ISS, etc.” Walter F. Wagner and Luis Sancho lawsuit, filed in U.S. District Court in Honolulu.

There is no evidence to suggest that colliding particles will create a black hole that will swallow the planet. I do however like their description that the International Space Station will continue to orbit the Earth-mass black hole – at least we’ll have somewhere to hide as the rampaging black hole eats the ground from under us!

The credentials of the plaintiffs are also pretty sketchy. Wagner has worked in nuclear medicine and has a minor degree in physics from Berkley, but he has nothing more advanced than that. His colleague Sancho has an even more sketchy physics background.

Wagner wants the opening of the LHC to be delayed until further safety studies are carried out. Its cases like these that scientists have had to combat for many years. Unfounded predictions of the “end of the world” and fear of the unknown have been published only to be debunked through correct scientific thinking. If the world listened to alarmists such as Wagner and co, we would advance no further.

I for one hope that the LHC does produce micro-black holes. I hope that this time next year we’ll be looking in awe at images of particle tracks from the sensors at the LHC showing the point of creation and the point of evaporation of micro-black holes. Peering very closely we see particle emission as if from nowhere, the evaporating particles from the tiny event horizon. The image will be entitled Hawking Radiation Experiment.

Even if the accelerator energies are not high enough to create mini-black holes, thereby giving Stephen Hawking some experimental evidence for his radiation, we are pretty sure we’ll find some other exotic and exciting particles to help us understand our universe a little bit better. We might gain a better grasp of other dimensions, detect some exotic particles, and lets not forget the possibility of discovering the Higgs Boson.

If we give into the fear of the unknown, scientific advancement will be stopped in its tracks and we may be restricted to scratching at the surface of space-time and string theory, rather than physically proving its existence with tools like the LHC.

Source: FOXnews.com


82 Responses

  1. greg your last name says:

    i actually laughed out loud, not LOLed to this article. what a ridiculous lawsuit. move on ahead. i cant wait for the results of this experiment. how exciting.

  2. Qev says:

    I wish people would think and do even the tiniest amount of basic research before leaping to file ridiculous lawsuits like this one.

    Particle events far, far more energetic than anything the LHC could ever achieve occur thousands of times a day in the upper atmosphere, thanks to cosmic rays. These have been happening for the entire 4.5 billion year history of the Earth, and as far as I’m aware, not once has a black hole consumed the entire planet.

  3. Chuck says:

    If the world can be so easily destroyed then it’s going to happen fairly soon anyway. Might as well make it now so I can watch.

  4. Tom says:

    I love “miniature version of a giant block hole”. So… a miniature black hole then…

    Talk about weighted phrasing.

  5. Tom says:

    Er.. “black hole”

  6. George says:

    This just goes to prove that there are too many lawyers. Here is a great site that tracks nitwit lawsuits like this:

    overlawyered.com

    And another that follows the junk science underlying a lot of the bizarre (and highly profitable) legal actions:

    junkscience.com

    (global warmongers should avoid the second site, as it covers the reams of science against it that, of course, does not really exist.)

  7. PHWilson says:

    I hope this nutty lawsuit has a little more fuel left. A larger dialogue on the theoretical possibility of creating a sub-atomic blackhole would help elevate the issue.

    Doesn’t this lead to the possibility of seeing the results of a blackhole fully fed?

  8. mike g says:

    wow this guy sounds like another looney that is organizing the global lie of global warming. tisk tisk tisk. he’s searching for his own manbearpig.
    just a quick question, if a particle accelerator did happen to create a black hole, wouldn’t it be a very very very very let’s add some more verys, small black hole, not a giant black hole? i mean it would take some time for it to suck in some matter before it became a super massive black hole.

  9. Emission Nebula says:

    Ha ha, I love manbear pig. Didnt the professor from Futurama invent something like this?

  10. Al says:

    A black hole that size *might* suck in matter if it is really lucky. It should flash boil like a drop of water in a very hot skillet.

  11. Andy says:

    While the LHC experiment sounds safe enough, when compared to the effects of cosmic rays in the ionosphere, bear in mind that when the Atom bomb and Hydrogen bomb were first blasted, a finite possibility remained an atmospheric chain reaction could enuse. This was ruled out by mathematical calculations, though, given human fallability, what right does anyone have to conduct an experiment with the entire Earth? Bearing these uncertainties in mind, there is little doubt the other experiment going on at present, namely elevation of the atmospheric CO2 by some 37 percent relative to the last one million years (the Pleistocene), is having seriously deleterious effects on the atmosphere and the biosphere. Given that to be human is to err, this raises a question whether humans should act as if they were some kind of Gods?

  12. baley says:

    LOL that’s too funny!
    LHC creating a black holes? That’s terminally stupid!

  13. QED says:

    Super Nature VS Super Mankind Science

    I detect arrogance here.

    Scientists study natural things like animals sensory abilities like bats (radar) , snakes (infrared) ,humming birds etc because humans are not creative enough to understand and create the bedrock of Super Nature..so they are merely copy cats … like Scientist s know the tip of an Ice Berg and not the final true bedrock of ultimate knowledge.
    So maybe there are gaps in their knowledge of all the underlying equations describing the Universe.
    We can never know the final bedrock equations describing the laws of physics.
    We may never know all of the laws of physics and really may only be able to approximate them or copy them from Super Nature.

    In Mathematics , which is the Queen of Science ,nothing is for sure until it is proven.
    For example in the field of Mathematics ,
    Kurt Godel’s Incompleteness Theorem proved that there are infinitely more true Mathematical conjectures which can NEVER be proven within the system of numbers than there are true conjectures which CAN be proven within that system.and its axioms.
    For a long time it was thought that Fermat’s last theorem was an example of a theorem which was true but for which there was no possible proof and it remained unproven for 300 years .
    Someone may finally have proven Riemann’s conjecture which involved the zeros or roots of the Zeta function of complex numbers of the form (1/2 + i) as a sort of “prime number generator” .
    The Poincaire Conjecture concerning singularities wihin Manifolds (which may be reduced to a sphere near the singularity) was only recently recently proven by Grigory Perleman after a hundred years.
    This may have significance in that Infinite Manifolds are candidates for describing the shape of our Universe.

    Goldbach’s conjecture that every even number is the sum of two prime numbers is another conjecture slow to prove.

    Look on it like a Sea of true Mathematical Conjectures for which the majority are such that there can be no posssible proof ever….and Within that Sea of True Mathematical Conjectures there are a few (a subset) for which a proof exists.

    A recent Conjecture in Cosmology states that the Universe can not only be described by Mathematics but the Universe really IS MATHEMATICS.

    So :
    UNIVERSE = MATHEMATICS

    So the underlying Laws of Physics that we understand are the Mathematics that we understand.

    In other words , in Mathematics and Physics we may know the tip of an iceberg which are the true conjectures which have a possible proof and lucky that these few proofs exist within the system of Arithmetic and Physics.

    Similarly, there may be underlying laws of Physics or equations describing those Laws which can never be proven or be shown to exist.

    We must copy Nature to understand parts of Nature or approximate the laws of Physics and so there may be gaps in our knowledge and missing equations which describe the bedrock of the laws of physics which we can never possibly know about .

    So who really knows for sure that a miny itsy bitsy tiny black hole would disappear in a microsecond ?

  14. Mek says:

    QED, we know so because, as the article states, there have been a hell of a lot more violent and energetic particle collisions in our very own planet’s upper atmosphere for millions of years, and yet Earth is not a black hole. If black holes are generated (I confess no knowledge about certainty the theory behind micro-holes) in those collisions, they do not last.

    I’m not sure what your point about math and physics is, but I must note that discoveries in physics come from experiment and/or observation, not just pure mathematical conjecture, critical as they are to science.

  15. hosna says:

    bah bah! bah bah!=D>

  16. photon says:

    Maybe the gentleman who suggested that a black hole would be formed would be sucked in first.

    His concerns parallel, anxiety about polywater or similar hogwash and/or the concern that nuclear explosions in the atmosphere would set off an uncontrolled chain reaction detonating the world in the early 50’s when nuclear weapons were being developed.

  17. Jim Walczak says:

    While I will admit that Wagner’s theory may very well be totally unfounded, I would like to say two words…”global warming”. To this day many people still insist that there is no evidence to support the belief that global warming is real…despite the fact that our polar ice caps are melting. While I’m not saying that we need to “give in to fear of the unknown”, I do think that when we’re talking about an issue that could have global ramifications no matter how small the possibility, that just maybe it’s better to “error on the side of caution”. It’s one thing to blow up your house or your lab in an “experiment” but taking out the whole planet? Haven’t we learned anything from 40 years of cold war and the damage we’ve already done?

    I’m not saying this experiment should be stopped by any means, but as the scientists themselves have said, it’s difficult to predict the outcome of such an experiment…maybe a few more “saftey experiments” wouldn’t be such a bad idea all things considered. It’s one thing to be “gung ho” about discovery and get swept away by the excitement, but all to often we humans do so without any forethought to the possible long term ramifications.

  18. HoHo says:

    Why worry about a black ho? It’s the white ones you need to be afraid of — they’re much greedier.

  19. Earthbound says:

    Love it. Who would stand to gain from his lawsuit, anyway? I suppose all of Earth and all that involves. He’s a HERO!

    Reminds me of that nut who sued NASA for disrupting the path of Wild2 with Stardust. Wonder what ever came of that.

    HoHo: I just ordered some skinny white hose online. Super flexible.

  20. QED says:

    I refer to the Mathematical /Physics which Albert Einstein created or discovered as well as the Pure Mathematics sometimes used to solve difficult problems in applied Mathematics.
    I refer also the to Abstract Mathematics such as Algebraic Topology and Group Theory and Logic within Philosophy.
    A little background ….
    An example :
    “This sentence is false”
    If its false its true and vice versa… and so …a Paradox.
    Russel’s Paradox and the above paradox worried Mathematicians like Rusell , Whitehead and Hilbert .
    Kurt Godel was a Physicist and Philosopher and Logician and Einstein’s close friend at the Princeton Center for Advanced Studies . Godel used Logic and Group Theory to solve his Incompleteness Theorem in 1932 which shocked the Mathematical world .It destroyed the works of Bertrand Russel and Whitehead and also of Hilbert related to proving that Mathematical sytems based on the axioms arithmetic were paradox free.
    Godel solved one of Einstein’s Theory of Relativity sub problem on “Time Travel ” as a gift for Einstein on his birthday.
    He even wrote a logical proof that God must exist.
    I also refer to a recent article stating that there is a theory that Mathematics is the Universe and not just used to model the Universe. The underlying texture and fabric of the Universe is Mathematics itself.
    Mathematics already exists and is there to be discovered and not to be created.
    If this is true then the laws of Physics are also part of Mathematics .
    Godel proved that there are infinitely many TRUE equations and theorems or conjectures based on arithmetic but only a small subset of these CAN have a possible proof.
    So one could spend his life on solving a true conjecture for which it is impossible to prove.
    But one can go outside one system to a higher system to solve some problems but again these are only the true ones for which “God” or something has determined that there is a proof.
    Galois invented abstract Group Theory and used that tool and “Symmetry” to prove that there is not a general solution to finding the roots of polynomial equations beyond the 4th degree.
    We all know the general solution for the 2nd degree polynomial … the quadratic formula.

    Andrew Wile proved Fermat’s Last Theorem i.e.
    X^n + Y ^n = Z^n
    has no solutions in integers for n > 2
    Wile used Group Theory , Elliptical Equations, Modular Forms and “Symmetry ” and the works of many Mathematicians spanning 396 years and 400 pages to prove what Fermat said he himself had proved but said that there was not room to write the proof down in the margin of his book “Arithmetica” written in Latin by Diophantus.

    So maybe there are hidden unprovable ever or permanently undetectable laws of Physics also.
    What if the science of Black Holes is one of them?
    Experiments conducted on earth may not give the same results as that which is observed in space and so some mini black holes could possibly become larger depending on the initial conditions. Experiments imply a level of risk depending on the surroundings and initial conditions wheras Mathematical Modeling entails no risk and provides strong evidence for predicting Cosmolgical (and hopefully even quantum events) sometimes years before these events are witnessed in the real world.
    Witness Einsteins predictions.
    Risk assesment may or may not be feasable depending on the accuracy of the equations known and the constants & coefficients used , some of which may be obtained from the initial conditions , but I too don’t pretend to know enough about particle physics or quantum mechanics to know what those conditions might be.
    I hope someone does.

  21. cathbad says:

    Ian, thanks for the new milestone of science reporting.
    Now your talents come to its full bloom.

    yellow press is sophisticated in comparison.

  22. scenicview says:

    Oh lord, you really want to create black holes?
    nice, how do you destry one..you better know before creating one….i don´t want to have scientists destroy the planet…look what abombs can do..this is the next physics..right?

    good luck us

  23. owen says:

    What an idiot! I think its very exciting can’t wait for the LHC. Theres no way anyone could win a case like that.

  24. roger caspaccio says:

    Hi Ian,

    thanks for this great story.
    As a fan of your science articles I am impressed again how wonderful you sculpture the key points of a topic.

    Fear, and tension is what I love most.
    LHC indeed would have been a boring thing in itself.

    Now LHC is exciting, frightening and – what is more – apocalyptic and heretic.

    Wonderful.
    That is the science I like.
    I feel a bit like in the old days of galileo.

    No maths, no empiric proof, no ballast, just plain science facts.

    beautiful.
    Ian you are the best.

  25. belinda birdleg says:

    Yes I agree Roger,

    exciting and scary.
    I like that as well.
    Before i thought LHC is a city in Arizona.
    But now…
    Thanks Ian, physics is a breeze thanks to the simple pictures you are showing.

    And it still makes me goose bumps, ooooohh

    give me more, belinda

  26. marty1468 says:

    I wonder if there is any connection here to the doomsday cult living underground in Russia? They believe that the world will end in May this year. Hmm, isn’t that when the LHC is going active…??

    Either way, we’ve all got to die sometime right?

  27. Anti-Religion says:

    Whilst I agree he has merit, his argument is totally asinine. The only part I agree is because why haven’t we encountered alien signals yet? Is it because our discoveries destroy ourselves. ie intelligence has a governing device? (nod to Alistair Reynolds) It is a good question to ask before we produce elements that created everything.

  28. Tom says:

    I’m not so quick to dismiss the concerns of these guys. I’ve been following the construction of this device almost since its construction began and they are not the first to voice such concerns – there have been several people with more education than these guys “wonder aloud” about possible catastrophic outcomes of this very, very powerful device. Would it hurt to run further tests publicly before firing this beast up?

  29. Tom says:

    P.S. – have you seen Stephen King’s, “The Mist”? You just never know……

  30. giovanni says:

    fear of the unknown? lets not forget that scientists took a chance at exploding the atomic bomb without being sure of the outcome .

  31. Trippy says:

    I have had the misfortune of ‘discussing’ Walter L Wagners ideas with the man himself on another forum.

    From what I can remember, his arguments were based on things like “Well, what if Hawking Radiation is wrong, it’s an unproven conjecture right?”

    Oh, and here’s a tidbit, in another news article on this law suite that I’ve come across, it stated that he’s been indicted for identity theft and I believe fraud.

    Wagner (who majored in biology, and minored in physics, spent three years in law school, then went and worked in nuclear medicine (and did a stint as a gradeschool teacher at some point)) was involved in setting up some botanical garden in Hawaii (Uma uma?). Him and his wife worked there for a number of years, un-paid, and then were laid off, so they decided to sue the botanic garden (for USD 340,000), without actually telling company he was sueing them – Wagner served the papers on his wife (as the treasury officer, even though she didn’t work for the company at the time) and then Wagner himself showed up at the court as an officer of the company, representing the company.

  32. john says:

    Well if dr.betruger works at cern we are all doomed !

  33. Astrofiend says:

    Man! Lucky this thing is underground, or we’d have nutbags in there armed with pipe wrenchs trying to sabotage it to stop their imagined armageddons.

    I actually think it would be awesome if it were possible for it to produce a massive black hole that eats the Earth. Not that I’ve got a death wish or anything, but you’d have to admit that that would be a cool way to go…

  34. joker says:

    Right Astrofiend, I find it very pleasing that you and Ian will go first into the black holes you sciencebabble about.
    You can shout a yeehaaa and Ian can report on it – inside the black hole – and radiate the article as Hawking rays based on entangled retardon particles.

    LHC is the apocalypse – be all set, be all set

  35. fred says:

    The LHC will surpass the energy required to detect the theorized Higgs boson,

    If no Higgs field is detected by the LHC, the theory coukd be wrong and science will still be searching for a source of bestowing mass on particle matter,

  36. The Vision says:

    I just wish that it would create some energy that we could use to run our automobiles and be a lot cheaper than gas. That’s what I look forward to. And maybe we can start charging those OPEC countries that are sucking our economy dry. And if it do end the world just remember to say your prayers prior to the experiment!

  37. hiro says:

    I think some cosmic rays that hit the Earth have energy up to 10^20 eV, and the Earth hasn’t been destroyed yet. Now some people are worrying about some 10^12 eV machine brings totally destruction. It’s like a nuclear bomb-proof rabbit is killed by a bullet from a hand gun. -_- !!!

  38. Jamie says:

    People will believe anything. And fervently. CERN should take care that some psycho zealot might try to blow the whole thing up before it gets started. God save us from the fools among us!

  39. Brian says:

    God must love fools and idiots, since he made so many. I agree with hiro.

  40. sapiens at risk says:

    Hawking radiation implies travel to the past as he interprets the negative sign of antiparticles not as standard physics does, a movement left or right, but a movement to the past, as a result it denies the 1st law of thremodynamics (infomation disappears to the past) and the 2nd law (the hottest source the black hole keeps getting hotter) obviously it has never been proved. It is a fancy mathematical hoax and mankind cannot depend on a hoax to survive. strangelets will be stable under the ordinary constant bag or MIT bag used by specialists. CERN is lying to keep the machine going.
    it is fascinating how people who would be histerical if some one puts a gun on his head, let physicists to do it just because they dont understand anythign about physics. It is ridiculous to die for not wanting to look silly

  41. Lee says:

    Yes, by golly, they can’t predict exactly what will happen when they use the LHC. If they could, a lot of the point of building it would be lost.
    Just because they can’t predict EXACTLY what will happen doesn’t open the door that ANYTHING could happen; even creating Earth-devouring black holes. Even so, how long would it take an atom-sized black hole to devour something the size of the Earth, even if it (the black hole) didn’t dissipate almost immediately? If its hysterically theorectical creation gave it any velocity it might just fly off, just taking some earth (not Earth) and air with it. (The ISS would not continue to orbit a black hole, by the way: since even consuming the earth would only create a black hole- what, a few millimeters across?, the inverse square law of gravity would mean that since the ISS would be a few thousand miles or so further from the gravitational center than before, it would drift off. THINK, Walter, THINK.)
    As for whether death by black hole would be awesome or not, I can’t help but remember that line from Hitchhiker’s Guide: “It’s unpleasantly like being drunk.” “What’s wrong with being drunk?” “You ask a glass of water sometime.”

  42. alphonso richardson says:

    Wotta a load of twaddle!! as usual, the only ones really laughing will be the lawyers.
    I suspect, due to the high nergies involved, there’s more chance of losing the buildings/site of the LHC in a lovely firework display than Earth being devoured by the Next Apocalypse.
    That said, if it, were even remotely possible to create a miniture black hole, couldn’t we line up the lawyers (esp those bringing the suit), tax auditors, politicians……..

  43. Aqualung says:

    Sound like the type of guys who believe in global warming.

  44. Blythe Smithers says:

    I’ve been engaging in a debate today via a blog on local Swiss newspaper with one of the scientists at the CERN working on the LHC. I couldn’t help but detect a certain degree of arrogance.

    In one of his replies, he asks “Why don’t you believe me…”.

    Hmmm… I believe the scientists working on the LHC are sincere. That doesn’t mean they’re necessarily right. Look how many people believed George Bush!

    I suggest you folks who are sceptical about the merits of this lawsuit check out Arthur C. Clarke’s “Nine Billion Names of God”. This should be mandatory ethics reading for anyone engaged in scientific exploration (btw, there’s a great, short resumé on Wikepedia).

    The expected value or cost of results of some possible outcome are equal to the probability of the event occuring multipied by the cost or benefit associated with that event. So, even if the probability is,say, one in ten trillion that a miniscule run-away black hole will be created, the expected cost of the outcome will be infinitely high to anyone who values this planet.

    Blythe

  45. Peter K says:

    Lee, why would the gravitational centre move at all? The ISS would still orbit the earth/BH as if nothing had happened except for the inevitable gravity waves. If we shrink to a singularity, it will still be where the centre of the earth was.

    Aqualung, get a grip. This blog has nothing to do with Global Warming. You’re just being a jerk to antagonize people you don’t even know. Clearly, you are not closely acquainted with ANYone of ANY intelligence or yours would have made the obligatory upwards migration to that of an orangutan…apologies aside to all my orange-furred cousins.

  46. QED says:

    I agree 100 % with

    Blythe Smithers and Sapiens at Risk and a few others with similar views..

    For all the rest of you …..What we have here is a failure to communicate !

    Super Nature vs Super Man Particle Physicist

    Can we control Nature ?

    Can we control Hurricanes , Earthquakes Gamma Ray Bursts large or small duration , Asteroid Collisions , Volcanic Eruptions, Super Novas, wandering Black Holes…. I think not yet at least.

    Mass extinctions occur periodically due to Super Nature doing its natural thing.
    So out of curiosity , the curious Super Particle Physicists create Super Colliders to increase man’s knowledge of the Microcosim(quantum physics) and the Macrocosim(cosmology).
    So we do this because we don’t understand the bedrock… ultimate underlying equations of Physics …Particle Physics.
    So if we don’t understand the bedrock of this science why do we presume to know what absolutely can or can not occur with respect to mini Black Holes when they start up the LHC collider.
    Expected Gain and Risk assesment should be evaluated to determine whether it is worth the gamble.
    We may find the Higgs particle or establish that String Theory is the bedrock of it all.
    BUT, ….in doing so there may be a remote possibility that we may create a new MOTHER of MASS EXTINCTIONS with no rebound capability..
    Curiosity killed the cat.
    I too am an Obsessive Compusive Curious individual who risks his own health by skipping meals and avoiding sleep in order to solve problems but I don’t risk anyone elses Health in doing so….
    If you like risk then risk your own life….
    Climb Mt. Everest with a blindfold on.
    Skydive without a parachute or Skydive into a Black Hole or touch a red hot burner or stick your head into a microwave oven if you are that curious as to what its like inside one .

    What gives Mr. Super Scientist the right to risk everyone elses life .
    Mr Super Scientist has my permission to use Nuclear Rocket Engines to help us get to Mars quicker or hit the Moon with a small satellite to see if there is H2O there or build a Space Elevator or Burn down the Amazon Jungle just out of curiosity to see how that would effect the ozone layer or orbit huge Solar Power satellites to beam microwave energy down to Earth and burn up a few airplanes in the process or Terraform the planet Mars by Nuking the Pole of Mars to release H2O and burn Mars regolith to pump Fluorocarbons into the atmosphere of Mars because that will definitely not cause a Mother of Mass Extinctions !
    Mr. Curious Super Scientist Particle Physicist …….you may from now , on Passively observe and use Applied Mathematics to find new quantum particles or prove string theory or the shape of the universe or the existence of dark energy and matter …just like Albert Einstein and his friend Kurt Godel used in their research ……. but I do not give you permission to do ANY more experiments with Super Colliders where my life may be risked by the MOTHER OF MASS EXTINCTIONS which could result from mini black holes .

    Ok , on second thought …….lets put it to a Democratic World Wide Vote among all Scientists and Engineers and Mathematicians and we’ll go from there
    That would be more fair…..
    You Scientists and Engineers who have no Graduate Level PURE Mathematics Education or Philosophy (Logic ) capabilities may not vote.

    I’ll go with an overwhelming majority vote of those who qualify.
    A guarantee that all the people who vote no will be sent to another safe part of the Milky Galaxy where they would be safe from any particular mini black hole generated causing a MOTHER OF MASS EXTINCTIONS must be drawn up by an honest Pure Mathematician with assistance from an Honest paralegal . and a formidable sum of money in the form of Gold or other as yet to be determined tender ….$100,000,000,000,000,000.00 must be put into a Swiss Bank account or into a Solar orbit near Pluto…. just in case…..

  47. John Mendenhall says:

    Quote ” Tom Says:
    March 28th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
    I love “miniature version of a giant block hole”. So… a miniature black hole then…

    Talk about weighted phrasing.

    Tom Says:
    March 28th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
    Er.. “black hole” ”

    What a great typo! Let it stand, I think you have discovered a new physics possibility, the ‘blockhead hole’, which explains a lot of the stuff on ATM.

  48. para325th says:

    Hmmmmm In a court of law something that cannot be proven nor disproven is null. Nether party can provide 100% proof that one or the other possible conditions will occure…..if one could why build such a device to explore the unknown. Human nature can not be subdued. We are blessed / cursed to explore reguardless of the outcome. An insatiable appetite for knowledge never satisfied never ending. Amen

  49. Blythe Smithers says:

    para325th,

    When you see some of the verdicts that come out of the American legal system, you certainly can’t believe that being able to prove something has any relationship to the outcome, can you?

  50. Allen says:

    Well, I’m from Alabama. If I had me one of them blackhole makin’ Hadron contraptions, I’d just holler “WATCH THIS” and I’d fire that muther right up!…uhm…YEE-HA!!!

  51. Trippy says:

    I did the math once (which i have since confirmed with literature values) a blackhole the size of the ones they’re talking about at CERN would take something like 3 billion years just to double its mass, and given their vanishingly small capture cross section, even if we were to generate hundreds of milions at rest in the earths reference frame per second for the next 20 years, the chances of even a single merger in that time frame approach zero.

  52. hiro says:

    I don’t understand why most people still assume that LHC will create black hole sometimes in the future. Is 14TeV high enough to produce black hole? Because I know most cosmic rays in space are at the PeV level or higher and they are nothing like black hole. I think this debate is pointless and it shouldn’t exist.

  53. Allen says:

    To hiro,

    All kidding aside, it’s because there are a LOT of people out there don’t understand Quantum physics…you guys are all speaking some form lost gaelic tongue to them about the LHC. It would be more responsible to stop calling them stupid and try to explain it in terms they can understand.

    Like,

    We are talking about the equivelant trying to jump off your dead car battery with your wrist watch battery. Your car battery isn’t going to explode, and we get to measure it’s affect on electrolosis in the battery…it’s THAT simple.

    Your battery won’t get jumped off though.

  54. joker says:

    Dont forget that Ian makes a living from the confusion.
    Might, would and maybe, that’s what he expects from LHC to report on.Right here for you nerds.

    If you guys wont get scared and confused noone would read the lurid ‘reports’.

    But there are enough twilight scientists around here to piss in their pants just for the sake of it.

  55. Jay says:

    This is great… the atom bomb tests in 1946 gave us the bikini… I can’t wait to see what they come up with this time…

  56. Boby says:

    A Bonsai Black Hole…wow…I can’t wait

  57. Byson says:

    “Super Nature VS Super Mankind Science”

    What is this Super Nature anyway? I assume it has something to do with the new agers or a similarly stupid spiritual movement. That aside even if a micro black hole did not immediately evaporate what would it eat? in other words is its event horizon going to be large enough to absorb anything? what am I missing here? A little advice to QED try wrapping your head with aluminum foil before going to bed it helps to keep the voices out of your head.

  58. Blythe Smithers says:

    Big news out of Geneva:

    The CERN has decided to delay the startup of the LHC for 2-3 years, after discovering a major error in their calculations!

  59. JohnH says:

    I’m nervous about this whole black hole thing.

    We need Al Gore working on this threat to the planet.

    😉

    Seriously – would someone throw the switch and start smashing some atoms, please!! 😀

  60. QED says:

    The meaning of “Supernature” is equivilant to “Godlike ” by some.
    Stephen Hawking mentioned attempting “to discern the mind of God’ or Supernature in his observations and analysis of nature. Supernature is beyond nature so this is impossible.
    Let “Supernature” = “S”
    S is an infinite set contains all the laws of physics/mathematics for all universes.
    Let “Nature” = “N”
    N is a subset of S containing those laws of physics which are possible to solve by the human brain .
    Some members of S include laws of physics/mathematics for our universe which are beyond human comprehension .
    S may include laws of physics for other universes if they exist.
    The laws of physics and major constants may differ in other universes.
    The fine structure constant is :

    Alpha = a = e^2 / [2 x Eo x h x c]

    where:

    e = charge on a single electron
    Eo = vacuum permissivity
    c = speed of light
    h = planc constant

    If alpha were > .1 fusion could not occur
    a shift of 4% in alpha would alter the energy level in th nucleus of carbon such that carbon woulsd not be produced in stars.
    molecular bonds break at lower values of alpha

    So alpha may be out of correct range in other universes so stars , planets or life may not exist..
    Its like “S” may even choose to conceal laws of physics in certain universes so they could not be discovered .
    Again , only the subsest “N” would be possible for us to discern in our universe.
    It is sort of similar to Kurt Godels Incompleteness Theorem where there is an infinite set “T” of all true Mathematics conjectures and a small subset of T , “A proof exists ” = “APE” .
    maybe “S” OR “God” determines lucky ones in “APE” which a proof is possible.
    It would be a good thing if a Mathematician could know a Conjecture belongs to “APE” and is true so he didn;t waste his life trying to prove those in “T” but not in “APE”

    The same applies for laws of physics/mathematics for our universe which lie in “S” but not in “N” and thus would be impossible for us to discern.
    “Supernatural” are events which go against the already known laws of physics.
    ESP ,Clairvoyance, Ghosts defy knpwn laws of physics and may be a result of a sixth sense in a few individuals.
    Other animals have different senses than humans like bats ,snakes and dolphins and they “see” maybe even understand some things we humans do not.
    The existence and non-existence of Supernature is unprovable within nature.
    The physicist who proclaims the non-existence of Supernature from nature is like the “Creationist Scientist ” who tries to prove “Creationism” from nature.
    Some conjectures in Mathematics can not be proven within the system of arithemetic but may be proven in a higher abstract field of Mathematics. Even Electrical Engineering problems in Complex Variables can be solved in the higher level field of Topology much easier than in standard EE complex variable methods.
    I don’t believe humans can understand all the laws of the universe so I think we should be extra careful with the new weapons and colliders and experiments we start up. We must accept that a higher level exists and laws of physics may be invisible except at a higher level , string theory for example. We don’t need to be a bull in the china shop. Let the current administration do that.

  61. General Zod says:

    Well, fire it up. If we cant test our theories, how will we ever verify anything? This search for the Higgs boson is important to our understanding of the universe and could make possible major advances.

    How many particle acceleraors have been brought online already? And we are all still here. Yes, we are bombarded by cosmic rays constantly, but we are still here.

    If a mini black hole were to pass thru u right now, you would never know it. It would be much smaller than a normal atom, would it not? And how many energetic particles of normal size are streaming through you right now? Chances of a mini black hole growing in mass are practically irrelevant for us.

    How many mini black holes have ever been observed? We cant even find any smaller than ,what, three times the mass of our sun?

  62. astrojr1 says:

    This reads like a stock market chat room. There is always a bearish crank who delights in tormenting the true believers. And I may not have a pure math degree, but don’t you make black holes by putting a LOT of mass into a little space? That hadron-smashin’ gizmo can’t corral too much mass goin’ that fast, can it? It’s only 17 or so miles around, isn’t it? That 50-mile-circumference SSC they were gonna build down here by Waco would have made those hadron-thingies whiz around a lot faster than that puny LHC deal. Hey, if we’re gonna all get sucked into a black hole made from a tiny mass then Texas goes first, I say – bring back the SSC!! And QED can come down and make the down payment on his quintillion-dollar premium.

    Lighten up FRANCIS. I love it.

  63. QED says:

    “As far as the laws of Mathematics refer to reality , they are not certain ; and as far as they are certain , they do not refer to reality”
    -Albert Einstein

    If there are no Mathematial certainties in the cosmos, only provisional descriptions of its varied phenomena , we must look beyond the cosmos for the ultimate , and find it there, if it is to be found.
    By using the brute force way of colliding particles at high speeds to generate more unknown particles we are going in the wrong direction. There will be easier and far more sophisticated ways of obtaining the same knowledge , probably within ten years – just have patience…an advanced computer and quantum physics collider simulator will be available soon .
    A higher form of Mathematics will simplify the quest , and you can’t see the forest for the trees by going in the wrong direction anyhow.

    “God does not roll dice with the universe”
    -Albert Einstein

    So what gives Scientists the right to roll dice with the universe ?

    Brute force discovery methods can make Mother Nature upset and She is in control.

  64. Byson says:

    The supernatural does not and in fact can not exist! If a thing exists it is by virtue of its own reality part of the natural universe. I suspect QED is a true believer of one type or another and like all true believers has chosen faith over thought. Belief is the first step down the path of ignorance and religion nothing less than the complete surrender of ones reason to fantasy.

  65. QED says:

    Billie Bob ;

    I honestly think you and all your LHC groupies need to “Chill”.

    You all need a tune up and a little help…

    Stop playing back these mental fantasies about the mating orgies of all these quantum particles…

    Transcendental Meditation is good , just select the right Mantra which fits your personality and take deep breaths while thinking … rrround and rround she goes …rround and rround she goes ….rround and rround…..

    If someone is enabling you , remember you are …what you think and you are what you eat and you are who you associate with….
    Avoid all your enabling friends…

    Take some online graduate courses in Analytical Mechanics as applied to the three body problem… or whatever it is you do,,

    Check out the Big wheel at Jimmy Joes place..
    Or, Its possible you all just haven’t played enough games of MARBLES as little “tykes”
    or spent much real quality time at the local red neck pool hall in Texarkana playing eight ball or done enough serious duck pin bowling marathons at Tuffy Leeman’s house of Ducks or , for those of you who are not passive couch potatoes , attended enough stock car collider races in Tulsa ,Oklahoma or El Paso ,Texas where one can watch the racing cars go round and round and round and round and round and bang each other into the wall…

    Who knows an unknown particle or black hole or two could be generated…thats for sure to happen in at least one of your possible participating multiple universes , so don’t forget to take your camera .

    Get this thing out of your system and CHILL .. there is a real life waiting for you out there somewhere in the universe…You can eject this collider monkey off your back !

    Ultimately , there is a twelve step program around the corner if nothing else works to calm you down,,.You can say my name is Billy Bob and I’m a collider-holic .and been collider free since they cancelled the really Big One in Sugarland Texas way back in 2006…..

  66. hiro says:

    The probability that LHC produces black hole is very low ( less than 0.01%), since the theoretical calculation requires “very large extra-dimensions” (0.1mm-1nm) which is almost impossible because we know there doesn’t exist such things. On the other hand, the amount of energy needs to create a black hole is around 3-4 TeV which is the right level for LHC so most physicists have too much dreams about it such that it becomes a delusion from reality. The next level is around 8 PeV, I think this is the right one. The problem is that it takes a very long long time to build a particle collider at that energy level (2050s is the earliest).

  67. sapiens at risk says:

    66 thousand phsicists work around the black hole factory and related industries, do
    you expect them to close down their livehood?
    what worries more is the systematic lies, and the arrogance and dismissive attitude of people like that NY professor. he must know for sure that cosmic rays are exactly the opposite of
    dark matter: light fast particles vs. heavy slow ones. By reductio ad absurdum if A is the opposite of b B, cosmic rays, will never become A, dark matter. Today we know strange matter will be stable at cern with the energy used. black hole evaporation has never found and contradicts the laws of causality (travel to the past) and hence the laws of thermodynamics (the hot source gets hotter instead of cooling down and evaporating our world). Physicists have made all the mass weapons of destruction since saint galileo of ballistics to saint nobel of the dynamite to saint einstein of the atomic bomb, and now they are all siding with the guys that are gonna make cosmic bombs? Evil is indeed the opposite of Live. Problem is they never have been judged. In Nuremberg we fought to bring them here. It is time for mankind to protect itself of this kind of scientific terrorists, which get our dollars. Indeed, what shoudl surprise us is that this is not taken by our politicians but have to be individual citizens who raise the issue.

  68. Allen says:

    To Qed,

    Lightening, tornados and hurricanes have always been a death threat from Mother Nature…screw that bitch.

  69. QED says:

    The expected gain or value in NOT producing a mini black hole which grows into a medium or large black hole is infinite unless one has a Death Wish for every one on Earth.
    But who really can say the probability of the LHC collider producing a mini black hole which could get larger in a few years , is zero ?
    One could argue that the testing of the Atomic Bomb was necessary to end World War II and save a few million lives , but even this decision would have been Dead Wrong if a chain reaction had occured and destroyed the atmosphere.
    Besides , since we agree that Mother Nature weeds us out periodically with Mass Extinctions , we don’t need Obsessive Compulsive Mad Scientists to help her along.
    Also , Mother Nature just wipes out 75 % of all species every 250 million years or so , but She always leaves us with starter seeds of some kind to regroup and start over.
    Who knows , maybe Mother Nature decides its time to start over periodically , because the current major species of those times exhibit character defects and the potential of running amok and of wiping out 100% of all species and the whole Earth itself.
    Maybe , Mother Nature gives a time out to the dominant species…just a thought .. not a sermon.
    Actually , I don’t believe in organized Religion but lean towards Buddhist principles.
    However , The Old testament of the Bible and the Dead Sea Scrolls and some other references from different cultures including the “Annunakai” , mention the displeasure of the “Elohim” or “Gods ” or “Jaweh” or “Jehova” , with mankind and so they caused the Big Flood and the destruction of Sodom and Gomorah and other calamities.
    There are similarities in the deeds of “Thoth” the Egyptian God , “Quetzalcotyl” the Aztec God and “Vericocha” the God of the people in what is now Peru and Ecuador who were there long before the Incas.
    All of these so called “Gods” were said to have taught the knowledge of Mathematics and Astronomy and even that of Ethics to the ancients and in many of the ancient cultures , a reference is made to major disasters destroying much of their civilization.
    Actually , I think “Organized Religion” is responsible for most of the world suffering including what is happening today in the Middle East and Bosnia and happened in Ireland and Yugoslavia (for a thousand years)… Catholics against Protestant s, Shiites against Sunnis.The Pope and the Catholic Church held his own crusade in the Langedoc region of Southern France in the 12th century against the Cathars exterminating most of them . and then in the 14th century in 1307 King Phillip III and the Pope tried to exterminate the Knights Templar .
    I thing that some , if not all of this ,has a high probability of being true , even though these books were written by humans.
    So , maybe “God ” or “Mother Nature” , gets upset with all these atrocities and throws a Big curve ball whammy at us now and then , so far she has never removed the whole Earth we are standing on by creating a black hole.
    When the Dinosaurs became extinct mammals were given a chance resulting eventually with our chance at becoming a “Contenda”.
    So all you LHC groupies have a chance to step up to the plate now and not mess with “Mother Nature” .
    The way some of us act , any Aliens passing by . would not even make a pit stop here on this planet.
    If they did , they would probably communicate with Ants or Dolphins instead of Homo Sapiens.
    Why do I always encounter Mental Midgits …. there must be intelligent life out there somewhere who can present first class professional arguments .
    Many of you LHC groupies are definitely not enlightened and need to go to a mental boot camp in basic logic and the use of proper language and where you may just possibly receive a general tune up.

  70. Milan says:

    If I was suing the LHC consortium I would argue that the money is better spent on cancer research, poverty, hunger etc. than hunting for the Higgs Boson. Of what use to humanity is knowing whether Higgs exists or not. I’m not against testing physics theories, but perhaps we should get more immediate and pressing issues in order first rather than confirming/denying something that is of no use to most people every day.

  71. UK Dave says:

    Lucky black holes eh? (Al) I won some at a funfair once. Damn things ate my goldfish.
    You know what they say though – curiosity killed the cat…

  72. UK Dave says:

    Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 01:41:49
    Posted by : Edward Britton [email protected]

    http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/news/pages/sti/99/07/18/stinwenws02029.html

    Big Bang machine could destroy Earth

    by Jonathan Leake
    Science Editor°
    A NUCLEAR accelerator designed to replicate the Big Bang is under investigation by international physicists because of fears that it might cause “perturbations of the universe” that could destroy the Earth. One theory even suggests that it could create a black hole.

    Brookhaven National Laboratories (BNL), one of the American government’s foremost research bodies, has spent eight years building its Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider (RHIC)on Long Island in New York state. A successful test-firing was held on Friday and the first nuclear collisions will take place in the autumn, building up to full power around the time of the millennium.

    Last week, however, John Marburger, Brookhaven’s director, set up a committee of physicists to investigate whether the project could go disastrously wrong. It followed warnings by other physicists that there was a tiny but real risk that the machine, the most powerful of its kind in the world,had the power to create “strangelets” – a new type of matter made up of sub-atomic particles called “strange quarks”.
    The committee is to examine the possibility that, once formed, strangelets might start an uncontrollable chain reaction that could convert anything they touched into more strange matter.
    The committee will also consider an alternative, although less likely, possibility that the colliding particles could achieve such a high density that they would form a mini black hole. In space, black holes are believed to generate intense gravitational fields that suck in all surrounding matter. The creation of one on Earth could be disastrous.

    Professor Bob Jaffe, director of the Centre for Theoretical Physics at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who is on the committee, said he believed the risk was tiny but could not be ruled out. “There have been fears that strange matter could alter the structure of anything nearby. The risk is exceedingly small but the probability of something unusual happening is not zero.”

    Construction of the 350m RHIC machine started eight years ago and is almost complete. On Friday scientists sent the first beam of particles around the machine – but without attempting any collisions.

    Inside the collider, atoms of gold will be stripped of their outer electrons and pumped into one of two 2.4-mile circular tubes where powerful magnets will accelerate them to 99.9% of the speed of light.

    The ions in the two tubes will travel in opposite directions to increase the power of the collisions. When they smash into each other, at one of several intersections between the tubes, they will generate minuscule fireballs of superdense matter with temperatures of about a trillion degrees – 10,000 times hotter than the sun. Such conditions are thought not to have existed – except possibly in the heart of some dense stars – since the Big Bang that formed the universe between 12 billion and 15 billion years ago.

    Under such conditions atomic nuclei “evaporate” into a plasma of even smaller particles called quarks and gluons. Theoretical and experimental evidence predicts that such a plasma would then emit a shower of other, different particles as it cooled down.
    Among the particles predicted to appear during this cooling are strange quarks. These have been detected in other accelerators but always attached to other particles.
    RHIC, the most powerful such machine yet built, has the ability to create solitary strange quarks for the first time since the universe began.
    BNL confirmed that there had been discussion over the possibility of “perturbations in the universe”. Thomas Ludlam, associate project director of RHIC, said that the committee would hold its first meeting shortly.

    John Nelson, professor of nuclear physics at Birmingham University who is leading the British scientific team at RHIC, said the chances of an accident were infinitesimally small – but Brookhaven had a duty to assess them. “The big question is whether the planet will disappear in the twinkling of an eye. It is astonishingly unlikely that there is any risk – but I could not prove it,” he said.

  73. The Empiric Skanker says:

    Scientist taking the risk of making the atom bomb DID cause chaos, but not chaos as in supercloission chainreation whatnot. It’s cration killed thousands of people and left a whole lot more disfigured and misformed.

    Huge experiments like these are pointless. Rather spend the billion of dollars on curing cancer, or creating clean energy, or saving an extinct spesies, or stopping an all out civil war in Africa.

    As for global warming not being true, go to Indonesia and see the Islands dissapearing, and the poor dudes carrying sand on their back to stop their village from being flooded. Or just go to the beach, assuming you know where that is, and that you actually ever go outside.

    You shouldn’t play with something if you can’t clean up after yourself.

  74. Golota says:

    QED:
    «So maybe there are gaps in their knowledge of all the underlying equations describing the Universe. We can never know the final bedrock equations describing the laws of physics…».

    Дорогой Кэд!

    Самое хреновое в этой истории с хиггсами то, что технический ПРОГРЕСС НЕОСТАНОВИМ, а на острие этого грёбаного «прогресса» находится физика высоких энергий.
    – Дали обезьяне поиграть гранатой…
    Если не эксперимент «Алиса», то – «Атлас», или другой какой-то на LHC или другом тэватроне нашу планету СОЖРЁТ завтра-послезавтра!!!

    В самом деле, не станут же эти шнобелевские твари закрывать LHC после первого эксперимента?
    Такая дорогая машина обязана работать 50 лет, как минимум.
    После экспериментов с протонами начнут сталкивать тяжелые многозарядные ионы, и будут долбать пределы нашей материи до тех пор, пока не проковыряют её до Дырки…
    Так шо, учитывать надо ТЕНДЕНЦИЮ, а не первый единичный факт.

    Да и методика оценки рисков в CERNe весьма и весьма сомнительна. На этот счёт есть статья Adrian Kent «A critical look at risk assessments for global catastrophes»:
    http://arxiv.org/abs/hep-ph/0009204

  75. dr brown says:

    THE SCIENTISTS AT CERN SAY THAT ANY BLACK HOLES CREATED BY THE HYDRON COLLIDER WILL DISAPEAR. THE FACT THAT SCIENTISTS AT CERN SAY THAT BLACK HOLE SPAWNING IS POSSIBLE AS A RESULT OF THE NEAR LIGHT SPEED COLLISIONS OF MATTER IN THE ACCELLERATOR IS A HORRIFIC ADMITION.
    THESE SCIENTISTS AND THIS PROJECT MUST BE STOPPED. THE MILLION MAN MARCH MADE BY AFRICAN AMERICANS MUST ME DUPLICATED, BUT THIS TIME IF WE ARE TO SAVE OUR PLANET A BILLION PEOPLE MUST MARCH TO DESTROY THIS MACHINE BY ANY FORCE NECESSARY. WE ARE FACING THE POSSIBILITY OF TOTAL PLANETARY . EVEN THE SCIENTISTS THAT CREATED THIS MACHINE HAVE ADMITTED THAT THIS MACHINE COULD CREATE A BLACK HOLE. WHY ARE WE DOING THIS ? WHY ARE WE TAKING THIS KIND OF A CHANCE? THE ONLY VALID REASON FOR TAKING A CHANCE OF USING THIS COLLIDER WOULD BE IF BY USING IT WE BE USING OUR ONLY WAY TO PREVENT TOTAL PLANETARY DESTRUCTION SAY AGAINST AN ONCOMMING ASTERIOD, OR A COMET. BUT TO RISK FORMING A BLACK HOLE FOR THE PURPOSE OF GAINING NEW INSIGHT INTO THE NATURE OF MATTER, OR TO LEARN MORE ABOUT TIME AND SPACE, NOW THIS IS PLAYING RUSSIAN ROULLETE WITH OUR OWN EXISTENCE . THE GUN IS THE HYDRON ACCELLERATOR, OUR HEAD IS THE PLANET AND THE BULLET IS A BLACK HOLE. THE FOOLS THAT ARE READY TO PULL THE TRIGGER HAVE NEVER UNDERSTOOD THE VERY FIRST LESSON THAT GOD GAVE TO US , HIS CREATION. GOD SAID ,” YOU MAY EAT FROM ANY TREE IN THE GARDEN , BUT DO NOT EAT FROM THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE” WELL MAN DID EAT FROM THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE AND ADAM AND EVE WERE EXPELLED FROM THE GARDEN OF EDEN. CALL YOUR SENATOR, YOUR PASTOR, YOUR IMAN, YOUR BISHOP, YOUR PRIEST, EMAIL, CALL , SCREAM , BESEECH THEM TO STOP THIS MONSTER OF CERN. MICHAEL SAVAGE, RUSH LIMBAUGH, SHAWN HANNITY, LARRY KING , MR PRESIDENT, BARAK OBAMA, JOHN MCAIN, OPRA WINFREY, YAHOO, GOOGLE , CNN, FOX, CNBC, NEWSPAPERS, WHY IS THIS OMNIPITANT THREAT , THIS WORLD ENDING CATASTROPHY NOT TAKING PRESIDENT OVER ALL OTHER NEWS . WHO CARES ABOUT A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION , A WAR , A NUCLEAR ATTACK ON NEW YORK CITY , IRAN OR NORTH BUILDING A NUCLEAR WEAPON, WEN WE ARE FACE TO FACE WITH THE POSSIBLE END OF OUR PLANETS EXISTENCE. REMEMBER THE BONE CHILLING FACT THAT THE SCIENTISTS AT CERN HAVE ADMITTED THAT A BLACK HOLE COULD BE SPAWNED FROM THE COLLISIONS TAKING PLACE IN THIS HADRON PARTICLE ACCELLERATOR. DONT WORRY , ITS OK , EVEN IF A BLACK HOLE IS FORMED , IT, THE BLACK HOLE , WILL INSTANTLY DISAPEAR. OH YEA SAYS WHO. THATS NOT WHAT ALBERT EINSTEIN SAID. AND EINSTEIN IS ARGUABLY THE MOST BRILLIANT PHYSICIST IN HISTORY. I DONT CARE WHAT T COST TO BUILD THAT BIG MACHINE. IS EIGHT BILLION DOLLARS WORTH MORE THAT OUR VERY EXISTANCE? GO BUILD A MACHINE LIKE THAT ON SOME OTHER PLANET IN SOME OTHER SOLAR SYSTEM OR TEAR THE DARN THING INTO LITTLE PIECES BEFORE EVERY ATOM OF OUR PLANET IS SUCKED INTO A BLACK HOLE KILLING EVERY LIVING THING , THIS COMMENT IS NOT THE RAVINGS OF A MAD MAN , BUT RATHER THE PLEAS OF A HUMAN BEING TO SAVE OUR BEUTIFUL PLANET FROM THOSE THAT THAT ARE RISKING OUR EXISTENCE TO EAT FROM THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE

  76. alandee says:

    DISAPEAR = Disappear
    ACCELLERATOR = Accelerator
    ADMITION = Admission
    ME = Be
    TOTAL PLANETARY . = Erm, Destruction ?
    ASTERIOD = Asteroid
    ROULLETE = Roulette
    HYDRON ACCELLERATOR = Hadron Collider
    OMNIPITANT = Omnipotent
    WEN=When
    OH YEA = Oh Yeah
    T = it
    THIS COMMENT IS NOT THE RAVINGS OF A MAD MAN = the ravings of a very excited mad man

    … oh AND STOP YELLING!!.

    🙂

  77. Exnerd says:

    Although a complete nerd growing up, I have managed to slowly evolve to semi-nerd.
    Being only a semi-nerd, I realize that the
    I am not running around with a super-collider hole in my heart that needs to be filled with the possible creation of a black hole.
    Some Scientific Advances:
    Madam Curies Radiation Experiments-Killed Her.
    Albert Einstein’s Brilliant Work facilitates Atom Bomb-Man has discovered(through science) a way to destroy all life on earth.

    Proof Mankind usually Messes up:
    Wars
    Cigarettes
    Heroin
    Murder
    The list is endless. Scientists are part of mankind. Do the math.

    So scientists, put away your star trek uniforms from comic-con and focus on solving issues such as 4 dollar gas,global warming, the selection of poor presidential candidates etc

    By no means spend your time playing around with creating potentially dangerous particles
    just for the joy of observing first hand either how the universe was created or by accidentally creating a new one.

    Yours Truly

    EX-NERD

  78. AJM says:

    I’m sorry but exactly what scientific breakthrough is this really going to achieve.

    I’ve read comments on those against and those who dismiss those against the LHC, but the facts are that it serves not general purpose; therefore the experiment SHOULD BE STOPPED NOW!!!

    Science, and scientific studies should be being done in service to mankind; we should be striving to make real concrete breakthroughs in medical science, creating new viable technologies, and new forms of propulsion.

    When there are any unknown variables to an experiment, they should be explored fully, but it is people like this, people who are supposed to be scientists who still at the very core of their being, are trying to get themselves the history books, for fame, nothing more, nothing less.

    We are supposed to serve the future, and this puts the future at risk, even if this nothing happens now with this actual test, they will continue to push this until they make a mistake, it always happens, we are humans, it’s what we do best.

    They must be stopped, and they must be stopped now, BY ANY AND ALL MEANS NECESSARY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  79. pavja2 says:

    quite frankly it is too late now to do anything. Still just another interesting fact scientist
    Otto Rossler, a retired German chemist, said.

    ‘Nothing will happen for at least four years,’ he said. ‘Then someone will spot a light ray coming out of the Indian Ocean during the night and no one will be able to explain it.

    ‘A few weeks later, we will see a similar beam of particles coming out of the soil on the other side of the planet. Then we will know there is a little quasar inside the planet.’

    Prof Rossler said that as the spinning-top-like quasar devoured the world from within, the two jets emanating from it would grow and catastrophes such as earthquakes and tsunamis would occur at the points they emerged from the Earth.

    ‘The weather will change completely, wiping out life, and very soon the whole planet will be eaten in a magnificent scenario – if you could watch it from the moon. A Biblical Armageddon. Even cloud and fire will form, as it says in the Bible.’

  80. pavja2 says:

    One other thing look at this
    “According to Mayan calculations, the current cycle of the world is due to end in December 2012.”

  81. Fuzzy says:

    This dude is a dumbass to believe that the LHC’s running time is enough to swallow the planet. Under certain conditions, the LHC will create a blackhole, but only for a nano of a nano second. Ants may be doomed, but we arn’t, or are we….

  82. Chris Gardea says:

    …..yes it is rediculous,but no doubt about it, it is a very dangerous machine, im writing a paper on this contraption. and some of the facts about this machine and the things it will be doing will be unpresedented.

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