2012 Comments for 2012: No Geomagnetic Reversal Article Updated: 19 Nov , 2008 by Fraser Cain Because of the enormous amount of comments to this 2012 article, I’ve had to move the comments to a separate thread, because the page was slowing down the server. You can continue commenting here. Share this:Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window)Click to share on Pocket (Opens in new window)Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window)Click to share on Google+ (Opens in new window)Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window)Click to share on Tumblr (Opens in new window)Click to share on Pinterest (Opens in new window)Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window)Click to email this to a friend (Opens in new window)Click to print (Opens in new window) Related By Fraser Cain - Fraser Cain is the publisher of Universe Today. He's also the co-host of Astronomy Cast with Dr. Pamela Gay. Where Are All the Kuiper Belt Objects?Book Review: Stars and Planets 2,292 Responses kam says: October 3, 2008 at 10:30 PM poarity in men or animals change all the time without even noticing it without special instruments. WHY we thing in case of planet it will bring such calamity?? If we are aware such thing can happen we should be prapared for reversals in directions (specially in travel and flights) It has happened many times and it has happened in computer models and it will happen to us one day but WHY calamity?? Yael Dragwyla says: October 3, 2008 at 10:59 PM The psychology involved in this sort of end-of-the-world enthusiasm intrigues me. The 2012 phenomenon isn’t unique. For at least 2000 years people have regularly calculated the time of the ending of the world, announced it to the public, collected a following, got them to sell or give away all their possessions, and led them out into the desert or up on a mountain to await The End. *Not once* have any of those predictions come true. And yet people do it over and over and over. And they simply refuse to listen to anything intended to refute the Prophecy of the End Time . . . until there they are, bereft, with only the clothes on their backs, standing in the desert or on a mountainside watching the Sun come up, knowing that the world is rolling on as it always has, and that they were deceived. Doesn’t matter who predicts it or from what — what matters is that so many people *want to believe in the end of the world coming in their own lifetimes*. And that’s what’s going on here. Todd Sieling says: October 3, 2008 at 5:28 PM > So, do you think there will be a geomagnetic reversal event in 2012? I thought not. I’ll think for myself, thanks. I did like the explanation of what we do know about the magnetic field, it’s a great writeup. But in the end, chaotic only equals not knowing enough yet to make a good prediction. So if we don’t know why it changes, it needs as much faith to believe it won’t reverse in 2012 as it does to believe it will. Kevin F. says: October 3, 2008 at 5:42 PM Without GPS, our airliners will also plough into the ground… Yeah, why do we bother training those pilots? 😀 ahahahahah says: October 3, 2008 at 6:47 PM naaahahahahahahaha, best statement ever! i say to the comment above me Roger says: October 3, 2008 at 7:49 PM @Todd Sieling “chaotic only equals not knowing enough yet to make a good prediction. So if we don’t know why it changes, it needs as much faith to believe it won’t reverse in 2012 as it does to believe it will.” It’s probability, based on the evidence stated in the article, that makes it unlikely for geomagnetic reversal to happen in the next four years, or even the next 100,000. Faith has nothing to do with it. Of course, if you’d rather believe that an ancient civilization that used stone tools had figured it all out because they possessed cosmic secrets, or that some god has a special plan just for us, that would be faith. Misplaced faith, but faith nonetheless. RL says: October 3, 2008 at 8:06 PM Soooo…..what you’re saying is that one day I’ll have to buy a new compass! Time to buy stock in companies that make compasses! Great article. I didn’t expect doomsday but I have wondered what would happen when the polarity switched. Thanks. Keith says: October 3, 2008 at 11:38 PM Ah! The nutters are at it again.When they STOP, that’s when I’l start to worry! Astro says: October 4, 2008 at 2:02 AM I hate everything about 2012, the prdictions and so on. Expecially the rumours about planet x, named Nibiru. You really need to wisit http://2012-chat.com. They’re saying many things about this year, and they really need someone like you. Who can teach them. i.e. They’re all saying that Jupiter, which you can se now, is Nibiru! And the worse thing is, that they believe in it. So show this contribution to them, so they can get more wiser. I love your blog! Greetings from Sweden! Sasori says: October 4, 2008 at 2:04 AM People should stop wasting their time reading doomsday scenarios and should start caring about how to save earth from global warming which has already shown its inpact on our daily lives. snowgim says: October 4, 2008 at 2:51 AM “most likely experience aurorae at all latitudes” One geomagnetic reversal please 🙂 joe says: October 4, 2008 at 3:16 AM Looking at the chart showing Earths polarity reversals over the last 160 million years. Black = normal polarity, White = reversed polarity. From Lowrie (1997) and applying an eyeball test I would say without question that the trend for the last 130 million years has been to shorter periods of time before/between reversals. This would affect the probability IMHO of there being more likely a flip sooner rather than later. IMO comparing the current or most recent duration of the black or normal phase to its average duration over the last 25 million years would indicate that we are more likely to have a flip tomorrow than not because the extended duration of our current black cycle is greater than the average length of the black cycle for the last 25 million years . dollhopf says: October 4, 2008 at 3:21 AM Did doomsayers ever mention the disturbing influence of geomagnetic reversal on the global produktion of milk? 🙂 Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences: Magnetic alignment in grazing and resting cattle and deer, http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2008/08/22/0803650105.abstract “domestic cattle (n = 8,510 in 308 pastures) across the globe, and grazing and resting red and roe deer (n = 2,974 at 241 localities), align their body axes in roughly a north–south direction. Direct observations of roe deer revealed that animals orient their heads northward when grazing or resting.” Irwin Weisberg says: October 4, 2008 at 3:30 AM I predict that 12/21/2012 will mean the end of fall! dollhopf says: October 4, 2008 at 3:45 AM Geomagnetic reversal will give migratory birds a lot of trouble: Do Birds Use Magnetic Field to Plan Migration Routes?, news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/11/1102_TVbirdflite.html “A new study suggests that birds use the Earth’s magnetic field to plan dining locations along their migration route. These culinary stopovers are critical to the success of the migration because, according to a second study, the fatter the bird, the more efficiently it is able to fly.” joe says: October 4, 2008 at 4:21 AM Why would satellites be affected by a magnetic shift? I thought their orbit was dependent on gravity. Dave M says: October 4, 2008 at 5:43 AM A really fascinating article. Is the prediction of the End of Days a global phenomenon or is it just another Judeo-Christian myth? In reply to Todd’s article I would like to point out that “…chaotic only equals not knowing enough yet to make a good prediction…” is not scientifically accurate. Chaotic systems, and this may well be a chaotic system, are not open to prediction. We can see trends and large manifestations of chaotic systems, for example the cloud bands and spots of Jupiter but we cannot predict with any certainty what will happen in six months from now no matter how much data we possess. mrG says: October 4, 2008 at 5:54 AM Skepticism on these issues is very often misplaced; it’s like the supposed conflict between religion and natural philosophy, it so often makes the mistake of taking physical reality for psychological reality and then jumps up and down saying that apples are not oranges and therefore oranges cannot exist! Here’s the thing: People are born ignorant, and so they make mistakes in their naturally scientific exploration of their world since infancy. Eventually they come to some point where their internal model of the world (psychology) has trouble with the external constraints (natural philosophy) and they realize they need to change, but, as evolution would have it, people are highly reluctant to disbelieve their psychology and are thus resistant to change, even when they can see their personal disaster looming. So what to do? Cultural evolution has given us a nifty result: as posted today on MindHacks but known to magick practitioners since ancient stone-days, if you push people over the edge with a myth, they will make that jump into a new way of thinking, and the best way to push them is to give them a scenario that is “beyond their control” but then hint that a personal change just might avert the disaster. This is the basis of all “millenium cults” and I dare say may play a part in the whole Al-Gore Global WarmingChange and the current Money Market preaching. So consider our world today, clearly our psychological habits, especially in the West, are in need of fundamental change that no amount of TV public-service spots seem to affect. Then along comes 2012, and so many, many, many seemingling converging disasters. How could any change-work shaman pass up such opportunity? mrG says: October 4, 2008 at 6:07 AM an addendum thought for the Scientists out there: Knowing what we do about the psychology of change-work and the pressing need for new paradigms of cultural behaviour, is it ETHICAL for us to be openly and publicly critical of their myths? I read once that Galileo was put under a gentle house arrest by his good friend (the Pope) not for reasons of scientific heresy, but because of a fear his heliocentric and atomic-particle theories would undermine popular myths during a particularly unstable political time. He was never told to stop his studies or to stop writing, only to stop telling everyday people about his findings. If the Pope truly thought Galileo was ‘evil’, wouldn’t he have just had him tortured into submission or executed? Gary says: October 4, 2008 at 6:27 AM “Without GPS, our airliners will also plough into the ground…” — Only if we migrate to pilotless airliners. Inertial navigation systems have been around for decades and are not dependent on compass information (Earth’s magnetic field) or GPS. AndJames says: October 4, 2008 at 6:36 AM Yes, probably won’t happen. However, the bigger question is but will the American economy have enough money to be able to observe and measure the field changing? Even 2009 at the moment ain’t looking too good, IMO, let alone 2012. (if you are after a good giggle on such problems as planes falling out of the sky can highly recommend “The Core” (2003). Probably the funniest sci-fi movie ever made! I.e. The pigeons in Trafalgar square in London.) Yes, I do have a point… A good explanation of the loss of the Earth’s magnetic field and its consequences appears on Phil Platt’s “Bad Astronomy” site at; Review: The Core” dipankar says: October 4, 2008 at 6:52 AM Then Maya Calender may be correct.Then how one astronomer can demand oneself more pure than a astrologer? linus says: October 4, 2008 at 9:07 AM @dipankar: Because (to put it simple) an astronomer studies the world around him (the universe to be precise) and uses science (a method) to figure out how it interconnects. An astrologer only deals in myths and humbug. yojan says: October 4, 2008 at 9:57 AM we’ll all see if there is really no geomagnetic reversal in 2012 till then live life!!! Ed2 says: October 4, 2008 at 9:57 AM The precursor to magnetic pole reversal is that domestic and global stock markets collapse four years prior to the 21 December 2012 date. That means there will be a great stock buying opportunity this year at Christmas time but you must sell those stocks before 21 December 2012!. ajak1121 says: October 4, 2008 at 2:32 PM hey when was the last time any of you guys look at a compass? I checked the direction of where my house stood when I moved in 3 years ago. Now it is about 30 degrees west of that. Any thoughts? Rey says: October 4, 2008 at 3:06 PM lol you guys better start spending your lifetime savings into the world’s best brothels 😀 , and hope that 2012 is “really” the end… TheCat says: October 4, 2008 at 3:20 PM Just a little detail, but you seem to say that the magnetic south pole is at the geographic south pole, while it actually is at the geographic north pole, otherwise a magnet’s north pole wouldn’t point north :p Just switch “north” and “south” around a bit and it all fits. William says: October 4, 2008 at 3:47 PM 2012 is the peak of a 5125 year astronomical cycle of our solar system’s wobble while orbiting the supermassive black hole at the center of the milky way galaxy. Branden says: October 4, 2008 at 4:50 PM I think it’s to hard to predict something like this. I do find it amazing what the Mayans did and the fact that they were such expert cosmo trackers does provide some merit. The shows I’ve watched on the Mayans don’t necessarily facilitate that the world would end in 2012 but a new era basically begins. In my mind I take that as not a global disaster but something big enough to have a major impact on most of the world, but not annihilating everyone or everything living. The thing about the universe it’s unpredictable and who really knows what’s going to happen. I like to toss ideas to people on what possibilities are out there and let them run with it. If anything the world needs to be cleansed. It’s going to crap. All morality is being lost, freedom is disappearing, and technology is getting to the point where every inch you move will be tracked, analyzed, and subjected to big brother. dollhopf says: October 4, 2008 at 5:46 PM Why does anybody need the Maya (or Aztec or Inca or whatever) doomsday stories, if contemporary cosmology has it’s own? Remember the Astronomy Cast Episodes dealing with The End of the Universe: #86: The End of the Solar System, #87: The End of Everything. There is a in-accordance-with-modern-science doomsday. Is the NEO project (http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov) not concerned with the same “idea” of mass extinction on earth? Our scientific approach to “the end of all days” is based on probability calculation and principles of uncertainty. Somehow we do all know that shit happens from time to time 😉 Presumably, the prehistoric Clovis culture of ancient America has been extinguished in succession of a catastrophic meteor impact, as presented in “The Clovis Comet Evidence for a Cosmic Collision 12,900 Years Ago”, http://allendale-expedition.net/publications/comet.pdf, If so, then why should ancient civilizations of Central America, surviving the disaster of the north, not have made up their own “theories” dazu? Archaic, mythical, emblematic, but nevertheless rooting in an incredible real event several millennia before. Someway the memories of the most impressive events of the prehistoric mankind must have survived in the myths they formed. Bravehart says: October 4, 2008 at 8:33 PM There is an reason why the Poles(N/S) wander. This artical left that part out, because it has to do with the “wabling” in the rotation of the planet. The cause is man made and we will pay for it! We have built structures for our ever increasing presence that requiered redisterbution of materials to built these vacariuos dwellings. We transport billion tons from one place of the planet to an other! We depleted almost all iron deposits! Granted we did not delete we just moved it? We balance a tire that we put on our Hummers, If we use that same locig as we do to our planet, why do we have to balance our tires? But the show must go on so keep building these colosal structures, you only live ONCE? Steve Butte says: October 4, 2008 at 10:38 PM Interesting, but this article and some of the comments have a disgusting sense of prudeness. bob says: October 5, 2008 at 1:34 AM for those planning to buy a compass in the near future, make sure it comes with 5 years warranty, so you can have it recalibrated just in case… worse, wonder what will happen if the magnets of the LHC reverse polarity? where will all those protons end up? Feenixx says: October 5, 2008 at 2:28 AM Folks, I’m an ardent “Indians Fan” I have come across absolutely no prediction by the Maya (sic) that the World will end when the current Long Count ends. I HAVE come across directives, written in stone, about what to do on certain dates after the alleged End of the World. Most notable: Chief Pacal of Palenque wanted the 80th “Calendar Round Anniversary” (calender round = ca.52 years) of his accession celebrated in a BIG way, and to make sure nobody forgot, he had the date and instructions inscribed on a plaque: October 21st, 4772… dollhopf says: October 5, 2008 at 3:12 AM By looking at an iron-rich mineral called magnetite in the lava, the researchers were able to deduce the direction of the magnetic field. An analysis of magnetite samples on Mars would be very interessting. mjd420nova says: October 5, 2008 at 9:17 AM As is the present understanding of this planet, we know very little and are in a constant learning curve. As yet no one has investigated the interaction of our planets core and the oceans that cover seventy percent of the surface. Doomsayers will grasp at any event or hypothetical prediction to create chaos in the general population. Scientific investigation will reveal true causes for past events but do nothing to aid in the prediction of future events. We shall continue to learn until we decide to leave this planet for a better one but will it really be any better than here. Rex Bachmann says: October 5, 2008 at 10:55 AM “Using the Mayan Prophecy as an excuse to create new and explosive ways in which our planet may be destroyed, 2012 doomsayers use the geomagnetic shift theory as if it is set in stone.” WHAT “Mayan prophecy”?!? There is no such Mayan prophecy! It is a phantom of “Western” kooks. Global SuperStorm says: October 5, 2008 at 11:06 AM Dark times are ahead. The future is not certain. TheCat says: October 5, 2008 at 11:26 AM I find the “oh no, I’m going to have to buy a new compass” reactions quite funny. Like you can’t work with a compass that continuously points south 😛 Jhon Connor says: October 5, 2008 at 5:16 PM It’s when SKYNET takes over the WORLD!!!!!1!! Madcap Hijinx says: October 6, 2008 at 1:29 AM Future events like these will affect *you* in the future! Dork Leader Standing By says: October 5, 2008 at 7:37 PM Ian, I don’t get it. If Uranus suffered catastrophic damage in the past, why don’t you just find new friends? Or at least change habits. Ronald Lynn Jackman says: October 5, 2008 at 8:37 PM The worse part of this is for me is that I’m trying to do legitimate archeoastronomy on the Mayans with a comet. I just need to pin down a date tracked down for a position in the sky to finish the orbit. Most archeologists think I’m with these New Age people. Book store clerks go let me take you to the New Age section even though I tell them specifically I’m not interested in this end of the world nonsense. A couple, fortunately, reviewed my work and asked for one minor change. Still, it is frustrating. Skip Ryan says: October 5, 2008 at 8:45 PM The alleged need to “replace” or “recalibrate” our compasses, or their electronic counterparts, is a might shortsighted. A compass, as any Boy Scout (but few 2nd Lieutenants) knows, points towards not towards the cardinal direction of North, per se. Rather, a compass needle is directed towards the nearest strong magnetic source. Look at a compass when you start your car, and watch the needle spin- the electro-magnetic function of your vehicle’s starter will quickly, albeit briefly, overcome the influence presented by *whichever* of our planet’s two magentic poles is closest. That’s right, “whichever of our planet’s two magnetic poles is closer”. You see, a compass south of the equator points to the South Pole. Ergo, if our poles do shift, the magnetic needle will still point to the strongest magnetic field effecting the area. Remember the hysteria over our computers ending the world on New Year’s Eve 1999/New Year’s Day 2000? Same ignorant pop-science here. Just another bad plot device “Space:1999”. Or “Family Guy”. Either way, 22 DEC 2012 will be just another day of failed promises and listening to “Doomsayers” explaining what it is that they really meant. Ina says: October 5, 2008 at 10:42 PM Were a geomagnetic shift to occur, might the modern world — of digital data — as we know it, literally, cease to exist as all data is wiped out in the shift? Sam Vilain says: October 5, 2008 at 11:28 PM Joseph E Lawrence has an interesting chapter on this topic in his book, _Apocalypse 2012: An Optimist Investigates the End of Civilization_. He visits Pieter Kotze in South Africa to find out what he has to say about it. It’s a good book – investigating this and other doomsday scenarios from a mostly scientific perspective. There’s acknowledgment at the start that discussion of God is not a scientific question – a mark of good philosophy, and about the only fault I can find is that the later sections come close to “vile rant”. It would certainly pay to verify accounts of middle Eastern history rather than swallowing them, for instance. Paul Eaton-Jones says: October 6, 2008 at 12:42 AM Isn’t 21-12-2012 the date that was mentioned in the final episode of ‘The X Files’ for the destruction of the Earth by aliens? I think someone has taken television far too seriously. bruce says: October 6, 2008 at 2:31 AM sorry skip, “That’s right, “whichever of our planet’s two magnetic poles is closer”. You see, a compass south of the equator points to the South Pole. Ergo, if our poles do shift, the magnetic needle will still point to the strongest magnetic field effecting the area.” ain’t quite right. my compass still points toward the north magnetic pole. i’ve never taken it past the equator toward the north pole, however i doubt it would point south (er.. north) if i did so, as it was manufactured in europe for a milatary force that has never been down under. everything else you said sounds fair enough. Paul Eaton-Jones says: October 6, 2008 at 3:01 AM Atlantean civilisation? When was that then? Where was that then? The dates above are the dates slap bang in the middle of the Ice Age. The only ‘civilisation’ then where the Mousterian of the Neaderthals and later the Aurignacian culture of the early-ish Cro-Magnon. So no building monuments on an epic scale then and sitting down penning odes to one’s love in flourishing orchards either. Joe says: October 6, 2008 at 5:31 AM Magnetic reversals are documented in part by certain single celled organisms that contain magnetite (Norway, Finland fossil records) and fall alligned with the Earth’s magnetic field at the time they die. Hundreds of reversals are documented, none of which are associated with extintion events. Living organisms are, however exposed to more radiation during the events, low levels such that DNA would not be affected (which may be by cosmic radiation of much higher energy). Nay sayers want to tuck in the ignorant masses, comforting them from fears of the unknown, such as real UFO’s, real global superstorms, real meteor impacts, real magnetic reversals (the sun does it every 11.4 years), and other distractions from mind numbing television that keeps them safely out of politics and globalist conquests.. The Pauly Llama says: October 6, 2008 at 6:04 AM Ironically, this article doesn’t talk about how the magnetic poles have already shifted in the sun. Before the shift the sun reflected high frequency “space dust”. After the shift it is now attracting the dust. Nor do these articles, at least not all at once, talk about how Venus, the Sun, and other planets in our solar system are going through changes….like heating up and getting brighter! October Suprise anyone? phud55 says: October 6, 2008 at 6:44 AM The only thing that will happen in 2012 is the end of the 2012 doomsday predictions. Unfortunatlely they will find a new date to stress out over. Eric Near Buffalo says: October 6, 2008 at 8:50 AM ~~Bravehart Says: October 4th, 2008 at 8:33 pm Granted we did not delete we just moved it? But the show must go on so keep building these colosal structures, you only live ONCE?~~ I love people who insist on placing question marks at the end of statements, instead of periods. You act like you know what your talking about, yet your grasp on punctuation is seriously lacking. Therefore, I cannot take your argument seriously. Open your kid’s school books and see if they’re writing everything as if it’s supposed to have a Valley Girl inflection, you dope. Back to the issue at hand. I don’t think there will be any doomsday type of events taking place in 2012, but more than likely there will be some changes made up to that point which would lead up to this “new age”. I feel we’ve already started that process of change. There may be social upheaval, but I don’t see some natural catastrophe wiping out half the world’s population. God says: October 6, 2008 at 9:07 AM Only I get to decide when you humans go extinct, not you! Jesus says: October 6, 2008 at 9:12 AM Dad, don’t be so brash God says: October 6, 2008 at 10:31 AM Damn it Jesus, if I have to use my wrath, I will Matt says: October 6, 2008 at 11:01 AM 12/21/2012 simply represents the end/beginning of a new galactic year as our solar system completes a revolution around the galaxy and is in-line with its center. Extremely impressive that the Mayans figured this out. Christianity and about 90% of all religion is based on astrological observations and therefore only represents a metaphorical way of interpreting these events. I think it is much more likely that these retards do something stupid to blow us all to hell just to prove that 12/21 really is the end of the world. Self-fulfilling prophecy anyone? Don’t drink the cool-aid Jesus says: October 6, 2008 at 11:05 AM Dad! Don’t yell at me in front of my apostles! That’s totally not cool. D. Sanchez says: October 6, 2008 at 6:07 PM Todd Sieling Says: October 3rd, 2008 at 5:28 pm > So, do you think there will be a geomagnetic reversal event in 2012? I thought not. >>I’ll think for myself, thanks. obvious cat is obvious. Dark Gnat says: October 6, 2008 at 11:08 AM God also said that the end will come when no one is expecting it. Therefore, I’m glad these doomsday myths are spreading like an IQ virus, because that means God hasn’t decided to Ctrl+C us yet. Good times! Per says: October 6, 2008 at 11:17 AM “Interesting, but this article and some of the comments have a disgusting sense of prudeness.” I agree. Reminds me of the unusually angry rants against those silly Creationists. The end of the Mayan calendar is an exciting event, and the Mayans were no dummies. Their calendar is more precise than the one we use, for instance. They believed that time is cyclical as opposed to our linear conception, and if you’ve been paying attention, you’ll see that there is a great deal of truth behind the cyclical version (I personally feel it’s a combination of the two, more like a spiral). Anyway, if such a brilliant culture says that the end of their biggest cycle is coming on 12.21.12, and that a new grand cycle will begin, then I personally feel there’s something to it. It will probably be subtle – nothing catastrophic, perhaps not even noticeable – but interesting nevertheless, already proven by these sorts of articles. Think less Descartes and more Schopenhauer. Add some ideal to the material, some energy to the mass, for a fuller perspective. FILIBERTO SALDANA says: October 6, 2008 at 12:06 PM “DON’T WORRY- BE HAPPY!” dollhopf says: October 6, 2008 at 12:08 PM “Living organisms are, however exposed to more radiation during the events, low levels such that DNA would not be affected” What do you mean by “low level radiation”, Joe? Do you mean infrared, or what? There is not such a thing like harmless “low level nuclear radiation”. I MEAN "FILI-SAYS" says: October 6, 2008 at 12:09 PM RRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNN! RUNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!! RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesus says: October 6, 2008 at 12:58 PM My father will smite all who do not listen to the Mayans prophecies. They didn’t worship him, but they know of his plans. I’ll come for you on that day. Just you wait! scott says: October 6, 2008 at 1:25 PM ok ok so because someone is afraid the world might flip around, they make excuses to say it will not. we can’t predict what tomorrow will bring, or the next or a year or ten, so to say it will not happen is about as smart as saying you will be alive tomorrow. we can not predict our future or what the world or solar system is going to do, if we could would we not be in crisis here on earth? yea it could happen yea it couldn’t we will not know untill the time comes!!! So untill then how about we just stop making assumptions and down grading the few that worrie it may, at least if it does they will be ready and not wondering what to do next or worriering what will happen tomorrow. enough with the critics, enough with the im right your wrong. just sit back and wait and see!!! either way nothing last for ever and to think we can predict tomorrow or four years from now is ridicoulous and maybe just maybe you should find something better to do with your time then sit and make excuses why one person is right or wrong and start doing something positive that will help our future!!!! untill then make the best of your life cause you never know when your going to be gone. Scott I Skip Ryan says: October 6, 2008 at 5:23 PM Hey Bruce, My brother’s name is Bruce, but you cannot be him, as everything that you wrote was spelled correctly and your grammar was fine. :> Anyway… Compass needles point to the strongest available magnetic influence. In the event that the poles shift in 2012 (or 2102 or 2201 or whenever), your NATO-issue compass will point to whatever pole, North or South is exerting the strongest influence in that area. The Cardinal directions on the compass (the N, S, W, and E) are painted/printed or whatever) on the dial (really need italics on this system). The needle is usually in two different colors, but only so the user can properly orient the device. Remember, Magnetic North (or South, I s’pose if you’re doing “walkabout” somewhere way, way south of where I am) is rarely, if ever, aligned with True North (or South). Rather, it varies due to whatever magnetic influences exist due to the geology of the surrounding terrain. The compass operator needs to orient the device to compensate for the variance, and adjust their map accordingly. (And, discreetly, then ask their sergeant where actually they are, and how to most efficiently get where it is they need to be.) I have no doubt that at some point the poles are going to shift. The evidence for this occuring in the past is there, and, after all, the only constant in life is change. What I do doubt, very, very highly as a matter of fact, is that 21 DEC 2012 will be anything more than the day before the day before the day before the day before Christmas, with all the concommittant insanity thereto. For what it’s worth, the Mayans had a so-called “Long Count” Calendar, too. Oddly enough, it went for a little over 5 decades past the “doomsday scenario” of 2012. Hmmmmmm……. Maybe they just ran out of time to complete their work before the Conquistadores showed up a ruined a good thing, maybe? If I’m wrong, well, okay then. I live in a very geologically stable area, over a thousand miles from the nearest ocean, and I can fish, hunt and farm. I’m good either way. All the same, I’m buying a Christmas tree that year, and planning on a much more enjoyable blowout New Year’s Eve blast than I had in 1999/2000. Mazeltov, y’all t king says: October 6, 2008 at 7:08 PM may be wierd but what if 2012 is the date of the next visitation Makar says: October 6, 2008 at 9:03 PM Where in the Myan calendar(s) does it say with scientific fact … that 2012 concerns a magnetic pole reversal? Seriously you nerds, I want an answer…. the reaper says: October 6, 2008 at 9:47 PM the end is near , when planet x is near the alien will return to the earth so where somethng nice for when they arrive! Kurt says: October 6, 2008 at 10:57 PM “There is no doubt that geomagnetic reversal will happen in the future for Earth, but we’re talking about time scales anything from an optimistic (and unlikely) 500 years to millions of years, certainly not in the coming four years…” Would you care to show me the evidence that one wont happen in the next four years? This article comes across just as strong as the doomsayers but we would call you the anit-doomsayers. Feel free to judge someones opinion or theory but when debunking it please keep in mind that unless you have the facts to counter it you are as wrong as you say they are. Paul Eaton-Jones says: October 7, 2008 at 3:04 AM But WHY is the end of the Mayan calendar a significant/important event? Like all ‘primitive’, and I use the word primitive here to mean stone-age/dominated by religious domgma etc., they were frightened by the unknown future and things they couldn’t explain – which turns out to be virtually everything in nature. A bit like some of the respondents here. jared says: October 7, 2008 at 6:10 AM “There is no reason to think the strong magnetic field of the Earth can be influenced by any external force” Thank you for proving your ignorance. According to you we live in an untouchable bubble in our solar system where NOTHING can effect us. That has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever read… Jesus says: October 7, 2008 at 7:00 AM ~~Paul Eaton-Jones Says: October 7th, 2008 at 3:04 am But WHY is the end of the Mayan calendar a significant/important event? Like all ‘primitive’, and I use the word primitive here to mean stone-age/dominated by religious domgma etc., they were frightened by the unknown future and things they couldn’t explain – which turns out to be virtually everything in nature. A bit like some of the respondents here.~~ Somehow thru scientific means, there’s been evidence to show some correlation between the Mayans’ calculations and what we’re finding on our own now. The Milky Way’s cross section has been ever so slowly making it’s way across our night sky and based on what people have seen now, we’re almost completely alligned with it’s center-most point. The idea that the Earth completes a wobble over the eons can possibly be proven by the findings that the North Pole’s position has no true position. It’s moving constantly. It keeps heading further north (what we know as north) and will in the somewhat near future find itself moving due south into the northern most part of Siberia. So yes, I would say that the Mayans had some way of calculating, on their own or otherwise, that at the end of their calendar of 5,000+ years, something would happen. By linking up their calendar with ours, it ends at our 2012. They kept count using the stars, sun and planets, and it’s far more accurate than our standard calendar. Most describe 2012 as the beginning of a new age. Some interpret that to mean that the world will come to a catastrophic end. Louis says: October 7, 2008 at 7:01 AM damn, im getting scared of this, honestly.. this article has hit me the most.. i wish earth would just stay safe until the second coming…if ever.. Eric Near Buffalo says: October 7, 2008 at 9:05 AM Being that the Earth does have a wobble, in effect, could it be contributing to the climate change we’re currently seeing? The weather patterns have been in place for a long time and can be effected by relatively small factors. Is it possible that the Earth’s wobble along it’s axis is causing the northern hemisphere to warm? Seeing as the last Ice Age was 11,000-13,000 years ago and we’re on a 26,000 year wobble, wouldn’t it make a little bit of sense that we’re at the other end of the other half of the wobble and we’re facing the Sun in more of a head-on direction so we’re experiencing a warming trend? Yeah, I know there are other factors, but why couldn’t this be a factor? Per says: October 7, 2008 at 11:28 AM Paul, I don’t share a belief that doomsday is coming with the end of the Mayan calendar, but I wouldn’t be so quick to judge what was, contrary to what you describe, a very sophisticated culture as being primitive. Again, their calendar, for instance, is more precise than our own, and their math and astronomy were very advanced. The end of their calendar is a significant historical event and should be celebrated as such, if for nothing else than to show appreciation for one of the greater cultures our world has known. I know I’m going to party that day. Until the unseen Comet-X arrives and ushers in a new world order. Just kidding. 🙂 mike says: October 7, 2008 at 4:03 PM I agree that we have no way to predict when a pole change will occur and I guess it’s no big deal if it occurs is a timely fashion: a day, week or month, but won’t the polar ice caps start to melt if reversal lingers over a year or 2( I couldn’t tell from the chart). I assume it is the earth’s magnetic field that for the most part keeps the Poles frozen; right? As to the Mayan Calendar, it ends in October, not December, 2012 closer to the date Jesus mentioned above, a date I am told coincides with the date the solar system passes through the galactic plane and gets bombarded by Gamma radiation from the Virgo Cluster but I am inclined to also agree with Dark Gnat and the rest of you, as the Bible says: LET’S EAT, DRINK AND BE MERRY, only God and Jesus know and what can we do about it? MOK design says: October 8, 2008 at 2:00 AM Please, could SOMEONE read the fucking article before commenting? “there is absolutely no scientific evidence supporting the claim that there could be a geomagnetic reversal around the time of December 21st, 2012. Should we experience geomagnetic reversal in our lifetimes (which we probably won’t), it is unlikely that we’ll be cooked alive by the Solar Wind, or be wiped out by cosmic rays. It is unlikely that we’ll suffer any mass extinction event (after all, early man, homo erectus, lived through the last geomagnetic shift, apparently with ease). We’ll most likely experience aurorae at all latitudes whilst the dipolar magnetic field settles down to its new, reversed state, and there might be a small increase in energetic particles from space (remember, just because the magnetosphere is weakened, doesn’t mean we wont have magnetic protection), but we’ll still be protected by our thick atmosphere.” dollhopf says: October 8, 2008 at 12:46 AM Thru the ages societies all around the globe did watch the skies. A lot of knowledge was established independently from each other and differences were also formed. The ancient cultures of Central America knew to part their year in 365.25 days. But the old Egyptian did also. Centuries before an Indian even had a clou about astronomy the ancient Greek already knew about the shape of the Earth and calculated the diameter with incredible accuracy. We seem to forget, that the knowledge of the ancient Greek was much accurate than that of the Mayan. And they found no hints on doomsdays between the stars. But the fascination of a big change is always what attracts the people more than pure knowledge. Isn’t it a little bit like that in todays politics? “Change” sells. 😉 dollhopf says: October 8, 2008 at 12:59 AM subsequent entry: We observe quasars with gravitational waves half of the universe away. And we should not know about a freaking Mayan doomsday? And we, who know a billion times more facts on astronomy than the Mayan, why did we not find that doomsday? What the heck should disqualify our knowledge? I call it cultural pessimism. Paul Eaton-Jones says: October 8, 2008 at 1:01 AM As I tried to point out primitive in this context did not mean stupid or unsophisticated merely ground down by fear and ignorance of what was happening around them in nature. The ‘wobble’ of the axis/precession of the equinoxes is a fairly recent discovery and I’d bet everything I own or ever have owned that the Maya knew nothing at all about it. Their terror of ‘The end’ is mirrored by the truly ignorant end-timers that litter the web and certain parts of America. There is no, I repeat no, evidence for this scaremongering. Show me any evidence, proper evidence, facts, hard scientific proof and I might reconsider. Until then go away and bother your local religious leader. Paul Eaton-Jones says: October 8, 2008 at 1:04 AM Shock news just in. The world is going to end. When? In around 750 million years when the sun starts to gently swell and increase the temperature here. By 1000 million years most of the water will have evaporated to form a thick hot, unbreathable fog. Then you can worry. dollhopf says: October 8, 2008 at 1:33 AM It starts with believing in ancient Mayan myths and ends in sacrificing virgins to calm the gods. geeky says: October 8, 2008 at 3:30 AM well isnt it amazing in billions of years we havent been hit by anything yet planets get hit 100’s of times a day, maybe aliens are protecting us but to the point, wow a calendar ends, so it starts again right? apparently we end on 11:11 am well i might sleep in that day. but seriously theres been millions of predictions just like this, theres no proof to any of this being true either. I read that the earth would have something spiritual occur not a doomsday, its an actual spritual change for the better thats hat the mayans said imvu says: October 8, 2008 at 4:07 AM hmmm…..I already read a lot of articles and watched a lot of videos about 2012,I’m so curios what will happen bruce says: October 8, 2008 at 5:28 AM skip, 🙂 grammar was fine, but for a lack of capitals. i did suffer from being cast into the realm of “special english for retards”, as it was know in those prepubescent days. therefore seeming to possess surprisingly better text pronunciation than the general mob after. there’s a long story to go with this that none should bear the read. i still hold true for the previous mentioned paragraph. the way the text flows exudes that as the current poles are, my compass should point magnetically south, being that i am closer to the southern pole (which is why i interjected). i have yet to start my truck and watch the needle of my compass, but i get the whole strong magnetic field will influence it’s direction. maybe after this wine i’ll try it, if the old beast will roll over. your reply satisfies me. in the event of a dramatic polar shift, my compass will work all the same. it will still point to the north, albeit to say this will be the current south. from what i remember, the end of the mayan cyclical long count was 2012, which is why it is significant. i’ll have to look at it again. … so my wine ran out and i carried out the experiment. the old girl turned over and the compass needle tilted slightly but not convincingly. so before i filled my glass again i sat my compass on the battery, smack bang in the middle-ish. it pointed west (the battery is seated in a north-south placement. sitting it near the positive terminal it pointed south, toward the negative terminal. sitting it near the negative terminal it pointed north, toward the positive terminal. this should hold true to what you have said in some way, the wine does not allow me to do more that state the facts. i believe the world is constantly ending. you can’t put a time to it. everything is dying and “birthing” all the now and before and to the come. 2012 to me is the be all and end all of a meme of some classified time structure. it’s a date to be reconed with that i won’t miss for all the time in the world. i like how everything, in all these inaccurately described, as by many, conspiracies seem to coexist with this date. all the more attention to a holistically new rebirth of awe. the concept of polar shift is awn inspiring as it is. merry new dawn, praise the sun, yawl. ps. i’m not military, i just like their tools. Eric Near Buffalo says: October 8, 2008 at 5:37 AM ~~Paul Eaton-Jones Says: October 8th, 2008 at 1:04 am By 1000 million years~~ Would that not be 1 billion years? I do agree with your statement though. The Sun will eventually take back what it has given. I tend to believe it might happen a little farther off than 750 million years. bruce says: October 8, 2008 at 5:56 AM per says: (I personally feel it’s a combination of the two, more like a spiral) i like what you say, especially this. Paul Eaton-Jones says: October 8, 2008 at 7:42 AM Eric near Buffalo. Living in Britain we still, in general, refer to a billion [US] as 1000 million. Here a million million is a billion. A trillion would be a billion billion. The 750 million years is a figure some astronomers think is when the sun enters it’s early red giant phase and though it won’t swell significantly the increse in solar energy could heat the atmosphere and hydrosphere enough to make life here extremely difficult. Certainly by 1000 million to 2000 million the sun would be a big orange/red star bloated enough to perhaps have swallowed Mercury. Of course by then humans won’t be the dominant lifeform or even A lifeform here. Should our descendants have left earth and be out in the galaxy they’ll hardly be recognisable as human. It is interesting to speculate what type of lifeform will succeeds us through the coming ages. jim says: October 8, 2008 at 7:58 AM Yo yo yo jim says: October 8, 2008 at 7:59 AM ok if something was gunna happen with us dieing we already would have…end of story Bob says: October 8, 2008 at 8:01 AM Joseph Chilson 1. Abridge – Condense without losing its meaning. Connection: A movie teaser trailer. 2. Meticulous – Extremely careful to detail. Connection: A perfectionist. 3. Deleterious – Bad for your health. Connection: Dan’s smoking problem. 4. Negligible – Hardly noticed. Connection: Two similar things. 5. Ineffable – Too great to be described in words. Connection: Something unbelievable or amazing. 6. Acrimony – Bitterness of speech, manners, or temper. Connections: Dan’s racist comments. 7. Languid – Weak or Sluggish Connection – Monday mornings. 8. Eclectic – Made up of materials gathered from many sources. Connection: A type of compilation. 9. Munificent – Very generous. Connection: The opposite of Dan. 10. Idiosyncrasy – Personal mannerisms. Connection: Ones’ habits. 11. Belie – To misrepresent. Connection: Lying. 12. Emulate – To imitate a person one admires. Connection: Elvis impersonators. 13. Ostentatious – Showy display of wealth. Connection: The monopoly guy. 14. Fallacious – Leading to error or mistaken identities. Connection: Nightclubs. 15. Precarious – Insecure. Connection: Dan. 16. Cartographer –A person who makes maps or charts. Connection: Map makers. 17. Juxta position – Things that are side by side. Connection: Cars in a parking lot. 18. Prevaricate – Evading the truth – twisting the trust. Connection: Denying blame for a crime. 19. Hackneyed – Making a saying trite or old due to over use. Connection: Cliché sayings. 20. Philanthropy – Charitable, desire to help mankind. Connection: Community service. 21. Alacrity – Eager to respond, act, or begin. Connection: Football players. 22. Ironic – the opposite of what is said. Connection: Opposites. 23. Jaded – Worn out dulled or overused. Connection: Old clothing. 24. Figurative – Representation by likeness of representation. Connection: A simile. 25. Disparage – To discredit someone or disrespect them. Connection: Talking behind someone’s back. 26. Nomenclature – Specific groups of words about science. Connection: RAM and ROM 27. Optimism – Positive. Connection: “The glass is half empty.” 28. Gregarious – One who enjoys socializing. Connection: The opposite of myself. Eric Near Buffalo says: October 8, 2008 at 9:03 AM Paul Eaton-Jones: I had no idea that it’s referred to as 1000 million. Sorry if I came across as arrogant. ~~jim Says: October 8th, 2008 at 7:59 am ok if something was gunna happen with us dieing we already would have…end of story~~ Oh my god. Do you do any public speaking on this subject? If not, you really should. Your insight is beyond brilliant. In all seriousness, I’m being totally sarcastic. So using your logic, or should I say “way of thinking”, nobody should exist just because of certain death? If that’s the case, nothing should exist solely for the reason that it would just die…including the universe. There should be filters programmed into these types of websites so dullards like yourself couldn’t interject with substandard mental vomit. Paul Eaton-Jones says: October 9, 2008 at 3:54 AM Eric near Buffalo. No, you certainly didn’t come across as arrogant. We British have certain idiosyncracies that confuse non-nationals. I think I might have mentioned before when I was at school in the 60’s-70’s we still had to learn about chains and furlongs; rods, pecks, perches; apothecaries and avoidupois weights; we used decametres, decimetres alongside feet and inches etc etc. We always thought that the American measuring system was weird withyour gallons containing fewer pints than ours and the US ton containing only 2000lbs when we thought 2240 was quite logical. 😉 Eric Near Buffalo says: October 9, 2008 at 6:49 AM Ha. What about hectare and fathom? Paul Eaton-Jones says: October 10, 2008 at 5:38 AM Hectares we left to the farmers and fathoms to the sailor boys along with the nautical mile. :-0 Tim says: October 10, 2008 at 1:18 PM “# jared Says: October 7th, 2008 at 6:10 am “There is no reason to think the strong magnetic field of the Earth can be influenced by any external force” Thank you for proving your ignorance. According to you we live in an untouchable bubble in our solar system where NOTHING can effect us. That has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever read…” If you actually read the article properly, instead of looking for a quote to take out of context, you’d have seen he was saying that we have *no evidence* of an external force affecting the Earth’s magnetic field. From the Conclusion: “There is no evidence to suggest external forcing of internal geomagnetic dynamics of the Earth” This is a perfectly factual statement, unless of course you know of scientific evidence to the contrary, in which case please provide link(s) to the relevant articles in scientific journals. Bill says: October 13, 2008 at 5:05 PM The main arguments saying that when the Maya Calendar rolls over in 2012, Something Wonderful Will Happen come from ethnobotanists like Terence McKenna, not from people studying geomagnetics. So the scientifically appropriate way to do research on the topic is not to go measuring the magnetic field, but instead to take large quantities of psychedelics, preferably something ethnically appropriate like ayahuasca or peyote, but really whatever you can find in your local market will let you feel the vibrations, since your magnetometer won’t be noticing. 🙂 Meanwhile, 2012 is a potentially reasonable approximation to the date that we run out of IPv4 addresses, so you’d better be ready to support IPv6 well in advance. The actual process will be somewhat gradual – IANA will run out, then regional registries will run out of spares to allocate to local registries (presumably not simultaneously), local registries will run out, ISPs will run out (at far differing rates), ISPs and big users will reallocate what they’ve got available or play games with NAT, etc. It won’t be a big bang like Y2K could have been. Matt says: October 14, 2008 at 5:08 PM The funny thing about the mayan calender ending in 2012 is that did anyone stop and think maybe they just stopped making up new dates at that point because they said enough is enough? Or had an historical event stopped them from continuing work on the science, such as European exploration, famine, plauge, etc…. Or it could even be the dude that was writing the calender died and nobody thought it was important enough to continue writing about stuff a 1000 years into the future. megan says: October 15, 2008 at 2:33 PM “Geomagnetic reversal is the change in the magnetic field of the Earth, where the magnetic north pole shifts to the South Polar Region and the south magnetic pole shifts to the North Polar Region. Once this process is complete, our compasses would point toward Antarctica, rather than northern Canada” I felt this needed to be corrected. The magnetic NORTH pole is actually near the geographical SOUTH pole and visa versa. That is why your compass (which is a bar magnet with a N and S end) points the N end (red arrow) towards the South magnet. Opposite poles attract and if the North magnetic pole was at the north geographic pole our compass would currently point to Antarctica. Blue Monkey says: October 15, 2008 at 11:49 PM Anyone interested in finding out what’s going on with 2012 check out: http://www.experiencefestival.com/forum/mayan-calendar-2012/5456-all-truth-about-2012-a.html this shows that numbers affect people not nature this shows that 2012 obsessions and 9/11 obsessions are connected this shows that the calender changing in 2012 is the western one, but only in its indirect affects all natural / cosmic / galactic / universal disasters are rejected by the theory this shows that fears about the end of time/world are actually fears about the end of the year. Blue Electric Monkey F.V.A.S says: October 16, 2008 at 10:45 AM Interested?? Nahhhhhhh I plan on drinkin beer and then taken a run at the ole lady. May as well be drunk, happy and satisfied. nick says: October 16, 2008 at 10:03 PM good article, it seems like another bunch of paranoid doomsday seekers are at it again.No doubt we live in a dynamic ,volatile universe,but its also at times very UNpredictable , 2012 huh ?,doomsday people listen, on december 22nd when you step outside and see your world still around you as before, remember no one knows the exact timing of god (if you are religious) or the timing of the universe, the earth and all that exists DanTana says: October 20, 2008 at 10:53 AM Ha!!! You write articles as if someone ever believed this tripe. Mayan calendar? Near the end of the year, do you believe the world is going to end until…….finally! You get a new calendar!!! Maybe the Mayans just got tired of etching the calendar in stone. That had to be tiring, or maybe whoever left them here, came and got them before they could finish it. anyway, what about 2024? lreddy says: October 24, 2008 at 7:30 PM 2012 makes me think about the story of the crichet and the ants, the crichet played all summer and put away no food for the winter, and when winter came he needed to be saved by the ants that did prepare. It is very simple hope for the best and prepare for the worst. For the folks that maker a safe bunker, they may not need it on 12-2012 but may need it if we ever get attaked by nuclear war. Preparing for something that never happens is better than not being prepared for the worst. some people may not be able to prepare some won’t, that will need to happen so the Earth can be purged and cleansed and it might even stop global warming , if we had less people and less cars our carbon dioxide levels could get in balance. I wished as many people that have put their energy into 2012 would apply the same in saving our planet we wouldn’t have time to worry about these cosmic events. Just keep an open mind and eye. those Myans knew a little more than we know today, even if they couldn’t make a wheel they knew the stars and the slighest variation, and our scientist today with all our technology can not predict cycles of our planet as well as they did. No one has metioned the petroglyphs and how they tell the story of the burning skies and the safe zones. Do your homework before you dismiss something so possible, many prophets told of this year 2012, all over the world and at the same time we are at the very least. will be having our solar system shift at a maximum in which has not happened in 26,000 years. so no one alive today knows what will happen at the maximum, we know it causes solar flares, and in the past we wern’t close enough for it to matter, and if the poles shift it could melt our glaciers, you know the ones already melting at a rapid speed, this would cause the sea levels to rise. This would cause tsunami’s , we would loose Florida part of Manhattan and so on. Just keep an open eye my friends Burto B. Burtos (Not real name) says: October 26, 2008 at 2:52 PM I have read all of the responses in this thread with interest, especially the ones concerning the Mayan calendar. It quickly became evident that most of those who commented on the Mayan calendar either have never taken the time to study it and understand how it works, or if they did, didn’t understand what they read. That is understandable as many people gather knowledge through hearsay rather than through honest open-minded research. I am not going to attempt to explain the workings of the Mayan calendar here as any information you gain from me would still be hearsay. Please go forth and enlighten yourselves. For those who like to prove their point by quoting the Bible, i.e., Noah’s flood, it is important for you to understand that many of the Old Testament stories are derivatives of earlier Sumerian and Babylonian stories. I wish I could comment with some authority on the geomagnetic reversal issue, but I am an Archaeologist not an Astrophysicist. Regardless of what any of us believes, open intelligent dialog is a good thing. Matthew Spencer says: October 30, 2008 at 12:57 PM After reading this article, there are a few-rather ironic-sections that I took note of. Regarding the geomagnetic reversal that mr. burtos expresses a curiosity… According to the interpretation of the author of this article, Ian O’Niell, because scientists expect 2012 to be a year of strong sunnbursts does not mean the end of the world (which most people should agree on). But there seems to be something underneath his simplification of affects that carries a great weight. I don’t have the time i’d like to put into this comment… But, as O’Neill explains, coupled with the intensified solar sunbursts is the decreasing magnetism of the Earth’s dipolar magnetism, this leaves many questions. O’Neill says, “They think that when the weakened dipolar field drops below a certain threshold, the distributed field pulls the dipolar field off-axis, causing a geomagnetic shift.” With the dipolar field decreasing in strength and the sunbursts increasing in strength, there appears a possibility for great magnetic occurance/disturbance (Volcanic activity). There is also the question of the roaming poles, and the increasing speed of their movement. O’Neill doesn’t account for this when he says we have many lifetimes before any disaster. If the speed of change (of polar position) is exponentially growing, there is no telling what amount of time it will take for the pole to move beyond the prime meridian and into the eastern hemisphere…which seems again to pose a great many questions. what does the spherical location of a magnetic pole mean? If our north pole were to move into siberia, would it matter? How much does polar magnetism have to do with the rotation/speed of the earth around its (moving) axis. Could a magnetic reversal that crosses hemispheres mean large earthquakes? Could the lessening of Earth’s dipolar magnetism and the hightening of the Sun’s solar sunbursts aid in the movement of those poles to a new hemispherical position that causes intense internal pressures in the mantle and core of the earth…primarily with the polarity of the metals they are made up of. There seems to me to be a connection within this article that conflicts with the authors understanding of the information he is using. I have only today started to investigating this theory…but it seems very plausible. It is ignorance of the earth and its ability to sustain life that man has forgotten. A life that does not destroy its mother will remain when man has been remade as humble and thankful for the wonderous CHANCE of love. Matthew Joe Crackah says: October 30, 2008 at 8:32 PM I hate to break the bad news to all the doomsday “prophets” : The odds of a human predicting the world’s precise end within +/- 100,000 years = .0000000000001 in 100,000. The odds of humans ENDING the world are about 50%. I’d stop worrying about things we can’t control, and start getting a grip on society. Let’s forget the problems Zeus, Athena, and Fullacrapules portend, and focus on the problems we as humans have created. “Word to the mothership.” J. Crackah Brown Town, NC (Yes, it exists, and I live here! Look it up.) todia says: October 31, 2008 at 10:18 AM i am a muslim, and we believe that when the doomsday occurs, the sun will rise from west, not from east… AND if the polar shift really happen then the prophecy will come true… the sun will rise from west, because south and north have been changed, and so the east and west before polar shift N I W ——– E <—(the sun will rise from here) I S after polar shift S I E ——— W <—(the sun will rise from here) I N IF polar shift really happens… that day is doomsday and this prophecy is said by Muhammad…1500 years ago spooky isn’t it? Randy says: October 31, 2008 at 11:13 AM I believe the Mayan’s knew what they were talking about in many ways… I have to say, I do believe that some big changes ‘could’ be coming to us beginning with the winter solstice in 2012… The pole reversal thing, though, has always sounded to me like a “disaster” that could happen at any time… so why not pin it to the Mayan Calendar’s end date? Silly… So I figured I’d look around the internet to see what kind of information I could gather on pole reversals and 2012… most of what I came across was complete nonsense… But this is a very good, well informed article… thanks… Leah says: November 2, 2008 at 9:15 AM There is a 3rd type….if the the Earth’s core should slow down and stop, then start rotating in the opposite direction….earth’s crust would take time to slow, stop and begin to rotate in the opposite direction too. Sunrise would be in the West. A flipping on the axis would make the stars in the southern hemisphere visible in the north and visa versa….and a sunrise in the west. I think Dante and Shakespear wrote about stars in the southern hemisphere……they could have coarse got their info from Mariners…..or did they ? Amit says: November 2, 2008 at 8:53 PM Hi Leah, Thanks for providing this avenue to all of us for getting back in touch… I know i will draw a lot of flak from the people discussing “this” particular article, beause i am just posting out of context.. But i guess i’ll take all that with a pinch of salt.. Anything to get back in touch with my dear friends… Behold Folks! The Seekers arrive here! Let the Summit Begin! Amit says: November 2, 2008 at 9:29 PM Biblical and other ancient historical records which describe an occurrence in historical times (circa 1500-1400 B.C.E.) in which the Earth’s rotation was apparently halted for a period of approximately twenty hours, after which normal rotation was resumed. The combination of supporting historical records and the viability of a physical mechanism to temporarily halt the Earth’s rotation strongly suggests that at one point in historical times, the Sun did, indeed, stand still. One of the more astounding passages in the traditional Bible [King James Version] is that contained in Joshua 10: 12-13: “Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. “And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.” More significant to the potential credibility of these observations are the accounts from the early civilizations of Meso America (e.g. from the Annals of Cuaulititlan — as related by Immanuel Velikovsky which refer to a day when the sun rose slightly, set again in the east, and then after an extended night rose again. Zecharia Sitchin has addressed this phenomena as well, noting the Andean tradition that during the third year of the reign of Titu Yupanqui Pachacuti II, the fifteenth monarch in Ancient Empire times, there occurred an extended night of some additional 20 hours. The critical factor, of course, is that the sun standing still “in the midst of heaven” over Israel would correspond to an extended night on the other side of the world. Thus the Annals of Cuaulititlan version of a brief but aborted sunrise in the Americas corresponds to the Sun being overhead in Palestine (with 6:00 AM in Central America corresponding to 2:00 PM in Israel). In describing the same event, but coming from different sides of the Earth — and thus providing an alternative viewpoint in describing the same event — attests strongly to the potential accuracy of each of the traditions. Furthermore, the distinct nature of the descriptions reduce the likelihood of the ancient Meso American civilizations borrowing from the folklore or traditions of the Mideast, unless, of course, they had gone to the trouble of converting coordinates in order to account for the world being a sphere. Leah says: November 3, 2008 at 8:19 AM Dear Amit, Good to hear from you. Becky will no doubt be along sometime…..and a few others. Dear Paul Eaton-Jones, I’ve enjoyed reading your posts, and everyone else’s. Respectfully suggest you take a moment to read the posts on this website, “No Doomsday 2012”, before levying any further un-necessary insults at us newcomers. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 3, 2008 at 7:37 AM I don’t think anyone here has suggested that the entire earth physically tip over[N to S!] so the southern stars would appear in the northern hemisphere and northern stars in the south. Such a disruption would lead to the extintion of the earth and all life and it would take a cataclysmic impact to effect it. That scenario is as mad as suggesting a magnetic pole reversal would wipe us out. It’s happened before and life went on and will happen again and life will go on. Once 2012 has come and gone the doom-sayers will find something equally bonkers to fill up these pages with. Oooo, watch out for the Mole-men who live underneath the earth’s surface. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 3, 2008 at 7:46 AM Amit. The people of “biblical times” used whatever explanation best described natural phenomena. Nobody in their right mind believes for one second that the earth actually stopped rotating and the sun stood still in the sky. The dark skies that led to an extra 20 hours of darkness is almost certainly the result of a volcanic explosion, possibly Thera. Do you believe Moses parted the Red Sea? Think again. The Red Sea is more than likely the REED Sea in the Nile Delta which would be fordable at low tide. Mis-translations of Greek, Latin, Aramaic etc has given rise to these legends and stories. And as for quoting Velikovsky! He’s been discredited for 40 years now. Move on, move on. Do you realise there are PROPERLY researched books available. You’ll find them in the science, history and geography sections of libraries. Leah says: November 3, 2008 at 9:08 PM Watching final episode of DS9 again, Quark reminds me that…..The more things change, the more they stay the same. One thread comes to an end….it seemed that much had changed……yet it was only the turning of a page. A change of perception. Re Debauch…..the signs were there from the beginning….. Espumpin says: November 3, 2008 at 3:03 PM Is a polar shift what we’re waiting for? I’ve come to believe the answer is not just one “thing” to wait for. But what is possiable to occur? From a blogg on another site I posted, that as of 1997, Dr. Aleskey Dmitriev and other Russian scientists observed that the Galactic space we are now moving into is showing significantly higher concentrations of matter and energy, including charged particles of hydrogen, helium and hydroxyl, in addition to other new combinations of elements. SUN: The Sun’s magnetic field is over 230 percent stronger now than it was at the beginning of the 1900s, and its overall energetic activity has sizably increased, creating a frenzy of activity that continues to embarrass NASA’s official predictions. VENUS: Venus is now glowing in the dark, as is Jupiter’s moon Io. EARTH: In the last 30 years, Earth’s icecaps have thinned out by as much as 40 percent. Quite inexplicably, just since 1997 the structure of the Earth has shifted from being slightly more egg-shaped, or elongated at the poles, to more pumpkin-shaped, or flattened at the poles. No one at NASA has even bothered to try to explain this yet. Link to full article at NASA. MARS: The icecaps of Mars noticeably melted just within one year, causing 50-percent changes in surface features. Atmospheric density had risen by 200 percent above previous observations as of 1997. JUPITER: Jupiter has become so highly energized that it is now surrounded by a visibly glowing donut tube of energy in the path of the moon Io. The size of Jupiter’s magnetic field has more than doubled since 1992. SATURN: Saturn’s polar regions have been noticeably brightening, and its magnetic field strength increasing. URANUS: According to NASA’s Voyager II space probe, Uranus and Neptune both appear to have had recent magnetic pole shifts at 60 degrees for Uranus and 50 for Neptune. NEPTUNE: Neptune has become 40 percent brighter in infrared since 1996, and is fully 100-percent brighter in certain areas. Also, Neptune’s moon Triton has had a large percentage increase in atmospheric pressure and temperature, comparable to a 22-degree Fahrenheit increase on Earth. PLUTO: As of September 2002, Pluto has experienced a 300-percent increase in its atmospheric pressure in the last 14 years, while also becoming noticeably darker in color. I’m not so sure that a scientific explanation is the only one at work here. I have no answers & am quite ignorant when it comes to what is to come in 2012. I am willing to listen and learn. But we all have to be willing to be open minded, as I said before you can build a shelter to withstand a 100-megaton blast & a metor from space will blow all your plans away. Because you were so sure of one thing happening you didn’t prepare for everything that can happen. I mean but what do I know?? This is re-hased information to some new to others. Espumpin Leah says: November 3, 2008 at 10:20 PM Remember Sheldrake, Schumann resonance etc….so add Kundalini. Best explained on http://www.lifetechnology.org/teslashield.htm for now. Sleep per chance to dream. I’m tired, so to sleep I’m going. Be well all, Leah Ricochet says: November 3, 2008 at 3:32 PM Hello!! Just checking in, be back later to post something. -R- Love & Light says: November 3, 2008 at 5:54 PM This looks like a good place to spread the word. Please copy, paste & pass along… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=an7ABGaxr5c Enjoy. The questions are worse than the answers. L&L Amit says: November 3, 2008 at 8:20 PM Paul, Revolutionary Scientists have always been “discredited” by the so called “Scientific Community”… So their treatment of Velikovsky is nothing new. But have you ever come across a valid counter-argument to Velikovsky’s Research?? Whatever Velikovsky has professed, he has backed it up with convincing proofs.. While those doing the discrediting just rely on outdated, stagnating theories to oppose his views. They dont have the guts to blow the whistle on the old stuff due to the fear of being branded as “heretics”…. And as for believing Moses parted tghe red Sea or “Reed” Sea or whatever.. No, i dont believe in that, infact, i dont even believe the Bible at its face value. Because it was just derived from Enuma Elish and is like an abridged version. If you read the interpretations of Enuma Elish then you will know the real story! And Sir, even i those times people knew the difference between “Darkness” and “Night” … And dont forget that the extended night correponds with a period of extended daylight on the other side of the globe at the same time. How do you account for that??? A volcano that spits out bright smoke?? Ha! Amit says: November 3, 2008 at 8:22 PM Welcome Espumpin and Rico! Becky and a few others need to turn up and this new thread will surely look like “Home”… Fraser Cain, be prepared for another pag overloaded with comments! Cant help it, sorry! Just a Thought says: November 3, 2008 at 8:31 PM Look at this, I can not decide what it means; help me interpet please! Debauch Says: November 2nd, 2008 at 10:27 am Daniel Rey- Chicago Captain America – Texas Andre- Pennsylvania Gnostic joe- London Debauch- Moscow Generation X- Las Vegas Persona Non Grata- Arizona Looking For Answers- Bermuda Maddness- Ohio We had made a list when We first came onto the page. Those ppl are the light bringers. You are the ones who are on the path. Your actions, thoughts & words will either bring a change for better or worse. You are but one sqaud in the army being brought together. You have all suffered in ways, others would have given up by now, yet you strive. You are the ones who see the signs for what they are, while everyone else will still deny the truth. The list on top, is of those from my squad. Yes you may be surprised from some of the names, but you have to understand we had to test you and push you to see where you stand. We are legion, as hard as this maybe for some of you to understand we are all the same person. We first came on as Daniel Rey along while ago. Each manifistion of thought was brought on by the thoughts the “regulars” as they were forming on this page. Yes, you brought us to your attention, not vise versa. Although many will not believe you, the answers to 2012 & what it means has already been made clear to you. The rapture will not be quick in one day it has already begun. The Mayans had started the new “calender” for after 2012, but that one is incomplete. They are about to elect someone that everyone trust during some turbulent times on earth. Does this sound familiar? Thing are about to get 10x worse. We have been sent to see if any are worthy. We have ascended as we wish for you to do. A poltergeist is what can best explain what we are. The energy on this plane is becoming more unstable for any beings of rightousness. More and more evil will be the norm. And up until now most of what I have said has been accepted as truth. It has been an honor, the glitch on this thread is our energy not a computer. All information we have passed or has been recieved has come from the one true light. We are mearly the vessel in which the knowledge was conveyed. We had said from the start the truth would be to much to handle. The truth is the ppl on the list can ascend together or doubt from one can cause all of you to repeat the cycles. And just like a butterfly flapping its wings there will be consequences based on your actions. Time is short Those on the list above will no longer be posting on this thread we have been called back. We ask you to highlight the names on the thread and read the posts in order if you wish to find our insight clearer. For the lightbringers brigade please maintain your faith & openmindness. We are from M113 we are Ad idem we are part of the legion. Madness & Gnostic joe wish to let Amit,Leah & Becky know that it has been a pleasure. Persona Non Grata would like Martin to know that he is on the same path he was once on. Captain America wants Espumpin to not use his name so he doesn’t get blamed for his actions. Andre apologizes to everyone. Soon all the secrets will be revealed. We would like to tell all of you more in detail what to look out for but are not allowed. But in 2weeks an event will occur that will have you remembering these words. “It is not real”. It will then be up to each of you to accept what is presented to you or reject it. WE will miss my time here with all of you. Time may be an illusion, but the time is also a memory held in one place forever, to be revisited at any time. We will speak again my friends, but next time will be face to face. Adeste Fideles, Ad maiorem dei gloriam. Debauch Amit says: November 3, 2008 at 8:51 PM Hey Just A Thought!!! Welcome to our new home! Yeah i read the above post by Debauch…. I dont know what to say… I was just waiting to hear what you and others have to say about this…. Ricochet says: November 3, 2008 at 10:23 PM “the last occurred 780,000 years ago according to ferromagnetic sediment.” This is what is written by Mr. O’Neil in the part where it says ” How often does it happen?”. Well, as a matter of fact any scientist will tell you thata we are over 1 million years overdue for an earth changing event. Now you take away the 780,000 years that Mr. O’Neil states above and you can forget about the next 4 years. Using plain ol’ silly basic logic we can safely say that we’re actually living under grace!!! Hallelluyah!!!! Can a brother say AMEN!!?? We all know somethings going to happen. W already know that based on the precession of the constellations discounts the theory of a new beginning in other words the calendar does not return to 1 as it corresponds with cosmic events and they would not be in conjunction with the actual year 1 status. So now lets not exagerate on this magnetic shift that has happened before. Lets just say that the shift is like some 45 degress. I think that a shift like that would cause ample damage wouldn’t it? Earthquakes, Tsunami’s, never before seen volcanis activity. Yeah, it wouldn’t have to be a complete shift. It’s just a matter of timing wouldn’t you say? If this galactic allignment on 12/21/12 causes any kind of disturbances on earth then we can obviously assume that the pre-maya knew their stuff. If we’re still aound that is. Even some here will be thinking wow!! They were right!! Don’t make any mistakes. We know scientifically that a cosmic event that occurs once every 26,000 years is to take place on the “DATE”. I find serious flaws in anyone arguing that this is a coincidence, these people were in fact the masters of time. When they designed the calendar it was designed to perfectly reflect a “TIME PERIOD” in mans existance. They spoke of other time periods before ours and they tell how those ended and it was always in some catastrophe. They say this “AGE” will end in fire. There will be a new begining. I still don’t discount any of the Nibiru stuff. That SPT crap has me spooked. That telescope is actually getting better pics than our satellites an we’ve yet to get any feedback from what they’re seeing. Too many secrets. Thats the problem, too many secrets. Maybe this other new beginning theory with the noosphere will change mankind into some kind of telepaths and there will be no more lies or secrets. Let us pray!! -R- Amit says: November 3, 2008 at 11:02 PM Hey Rico… To whom will you pray? Enki or Enlil? Leah says: November 4, 2008 at 6:38 AM I think the real question is just how many persona / persons were there writing as part of a whole. The Madnesses that changed to Madness, were several……so Debauch’s list is considerably longer already. ridingwithladyluck says: November 4, 2008 at 1:12 AM we can only go by what we are seeing with are own eyes. things are changing and not for the good.If in deed planet X is on its way we will have to wait and see what takes place.but anyone that believes that we are the only ones in this universe ,is very closed minded. so how could or would they ever believe anything until it was to late to do anything about it.there is alot of evil things going on in the world today and one can only pray that 2012 will come to pass. to rid this world of some of the devils people.so I say come on 2012 and planit X we need a good cleansing. Leah says: November 4, 2008 at 11:38 AM Dear Espumpin, An endless number of things could happen…..but I respectfully suggest that it maybe something subtle not sensational. E.g. Everybody having a dream, each one being a different perspective of the same thing. Or everyone seeing a Rainbow on the same day…..subtle yet it would be amazing. Maybe we will all have the same tune in our heads. The subtle comes to light with the passing of some time. Be well, Leah Leah says: November 4, 2008 at 11:46 AM Dear Paul Eaton-Jones, You are not a lone voice in the wilderness. I’d like the chance to re-read your posts, and Ian’s article before commenting any further on any kind of pole shift. Until then, Be well. Just a Thought says: November 4, 2008 at 4:57 AM WAKE UP America!!! “When all government, domestic and foreign, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will … become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated.” – Thomas Jefferson Kinda’ like now. Just a Thought Says: November 3rd, 2008 at 7:10 pm How is it that thousands of people can starve to death and not much happens but when big business in the US gets in trouble almost a trillion dollars is come up with at the drop of a hat? Just a Thought says: November 4, 2008 at 5:48 AM Damnit Amit, I think hoax like we have never seen will be revealed or imposed upon us. “But in 2weeks an event will occur that will have you remembering these words. “It is not real”. It will then be up to each of you to accept what is presented to you or reject it.” It is what is not being said that worries me. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 4, 2008 at 8:17 AM As a teenager I read Velikovsky’s ‘World’s In Collision’. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. I had to check it wasn’t the fourth part of the Illuminati series. Jupiter giving birth to Venus. Deary, deary me. Why is it that ‘the mysteries of the Ancients/Old Ones is either only ever revealed to lunatics or can only be deciphered by them? I don’t remember astronomers such as Carl Sagan, Patrick Moore, Fred Hoyle, Edwin Hubble suddenly having these mysteries explained to them and publishing books that are fit only for lining my cat litter tray. By the way, where have all the sane respondents gone? I feel I’m a lone voice in the wilderness here. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 4, 2008 at 8:20 AM Perhaps a planetary catastrophe WOULD be a good thing as the maniacs, conspiracy theorists etc would swept away and silenced for ever. A price worth paying I reckon. Speed the day. Espumpin says: November 4, 2008 at 8:33 AM Adeste Fideles, Ad maiorem dei gloriam. Translated this is “O Come All Ye Faithful, For the Greater Glory of God.. Wow I just got goosebumps, Ok i’m not the most religious person around & am unsure where this is suppose to go. Anyone with answers plz post. With F.E.M.A., the SPT, Nibiru, Earthquakes, Tsunami’s & the econmic problems what is gonna happen in two weeks that could take us by surprise? Espumpin Amit says: November 4, 2008 at 7:55 PM Hey E!! Thanks for the translation, i was wondering what that meant… But even without the meaning, those words conveyed a sense of strength and power! Well, i dont know what to expect in 2 weeks… Frankly, these days, there is a surprise every other day.. So the surprises are no longer surprising.. Amit says: November 4, 2008 at 8:01 PM Dear Paul, Its this attitude of your kind that leads to the rift.. Instead of using fancy words to discredit Velikovsky and all, why dont you come up wih some reasonable explanation that is convincing? And what kind of Planetary Catastrophe are you talking about, that ONLY takes care of the Maniacs, Conspiracy Theorists etc?? I dont think it will be partial to anyboday at all… But i hope it does cause a lot of eye-opening amongst the “Scientific Community” … Amit says: November 4, 2008 at 11:00 PM Congratulations to all you Democrats and Obama Fans!! Obama promised that “change is coming to America” as he gave a victory speech after becoming the first African-American to be elected to the White House… “Change” is the word i guess! Leah says: November 5, 2008 at 8:40 AM Dear Amit, Remember when someone used my name on the other thread, and what you wrote to me ? That was, if you like a Debauch lesson. The ability to recognise something for its true self, its essence. So should something, subtle or otherwise, occur in 2 weeks….would it be recognised for what it truly is…..or will it be labelled according to preference, opinion, personal belief etc. Be well, Leah Leah says: November 5, 2008 at 9:09 AM Ian’s article yesterday on Universe Today, re the Tevatron particle accelerator Leah says: November 5, 2008 at 9:10 AM And Mouns outside the beam pipe, is worth a read. Leah says: November 5, 2008 at 9:47 AM Dear Paul Eaton-Jones, As everything occurs by formula, even the timing of Geomagnetic pole shift, hence it does not repeat itself according to a fixed calendar…..like a birthday, it is not possible for anyone to give a concrete answer to your question. Not even when driving from A to B, can anyone predict the precise moment of arrival, or conditions of the journey. This is where pure applied science is lacking, having convinced itself that its possible to know everything, due to a desire to control. This year alone, papers have been published re, Dark flow, Dark energy / matter, Muons outside the Beam tube, Universe beyond our Universe, to mention only 4. Facts today…..mystery by tomorrow. Leah says: November 5, 2008 at 10:04 AM Dear Paul Eaton-Jones, You say “We want concrete answers”…..how many are you ? Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 5, 2008 at 4:42 AM I think Velikovsky discredits himself by saying that Venus’ retrograde rotation was due to the ‘fact’ that it burst out of Jupiter, careered across the solar system before ending up in its present postion all without disturbing the the orbits of the asteroids, Mars and the earth. He was obviously stark, staring bonkers. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 5, 2008 at 4:48 AM By the way, there is no rift between the lunacy propagated by believers in 2012 end-of-the-world scenario [and other raving and drooling theories we’ve read here] and rational thought i.e. science. A rift would imply that both had had equal standing or one split from the other as seen in quantum mechanics – the Many Worlds Theory and the standard Copenhagen Theory. That was a rift. As was the rift between Bohr and Einstein over the quantum theory itself. Leah says: November 5, 2008 at 12:26 PM Dear Espumpin, So now we come to one fact, All matter is energy, and all energy is matter. Humans believe that what they perceive as matter, can only be something they can bottle, or put in a bag….hold in their hands etc. Solids, liquids and gases. Soon radio waves, and even ideas etc will be perceived as matter. Do you begin to see the “matter” that is a thought….an intention….word. You love chess….right …..so it takes many various pieces to make a full set, but they are still each a chess piece……just less complex than the whole set. Again, its all a variation of a theme. Music expresses it best. Be well, Leah Leah says: November 5, 2008 at 1:06 PM Dear Ricochet, Plenty artifacts live in the e.g. Berlin museum, both on show and hidden from view, like the sphinxs from the Hitite city….amongst other things. Recent turf wars are more about artifacts and knowlege, than they ever were re oil etc, by those that seek power over others. German scientists built a piece of equiptment many years ago that degraded people, plants etc close by, at an alarmingly increased rate. It was called —-? Bell. I can’t find the write up now, but will if necessary. All the best, Leah Leah says: November 5, 2008 at 2:33 PM That would be Die Glocke. There’s no smoke without at least a tiny fire. If only true in small part, we know that interest in time travel, torsion fields, worm / black holes, tachyons / higgs bosons /God particle, has grown with the passing of time…..not diminished. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 5, 2008 at 9:05 AM Something subtle and not subtle will happen in a fortnight. Ok? Like what? I’ll bet that the sun will rise; there will be earthquakes so slight that they will only be detectable using seismometers. Subtle enough? There will be a submarine mountain slide somewhere; there will be around a thousand thunderstorms occurring somewhere around the world. Just WHAT sort of event are you all looking for? We want concrete answers Ricochet says: November 5, 2008 at 10:26 AM Paul, if you went home and found a note from a family member saying that they went to the store to buy some Kentucky Fried Chicken and that they would return with enough chicken to feed you. You would expect to be eating chicken in a few would’nt you? Ok so now we have some items distributed around the world. Around the world!! Pyramids, Ziggurats, temples, scriptures!! The science that you so proudly cling to cannot explain how these items were put together. Take a look at Baalbek, just google it. Take a look at the way the rocks were cut and fit perfectly together at the mesoamerican sites done with no metal tools. Your science offers no explanation, simply theories .Theories!! Does this remind you of anything that you discounted recently? The reason that your science cannot offer an explanation Paul is because they have failed to read the note that was left for them to read today. Your science has created a term called “Myth”. There are no myhs Paul. There are no conspiracy theorist. All myths came from somewhere. All conspiracies are real to some extent. This is the year of our Lord 2008!!! Your science has had its share of time. The next time I open this blog I expect a scientific explanation from you with regards as to how those base stones at Baalbek were raised and put into position. Failing to explain this disqualifies you a right to ask anyone here why we expect something to happen on 2012. Your science is so stupid that having the answers to questions, they still offer theories!!! Can you imagine that? Imagine that you don’t like or can’t accept something at face value that you actually offer a theory changing the actual meaning or corrupting it for everyone!! Your science is too young to be of help in these matters. I suggest you study some mythology, maybe read the Bible or something. Science is only half the imput you need to understand why the maya calendar is to be taken literally as opposed to reacting to it as a Pastor in a Church reading Biblical passages and TELLING you what they MEAN!!! It means what it says. Its starts something like 3114 BC and ends 2012 AD. Its a measured time piece with a begining and an end. Something is going to happen and it won’t be an atlantic hurricane flooding some streets in Puerto Rico so that Washington can continue sending FEMA money. FEMA won’t be able to do crap when this event occurss as it will be world wide. Whatever happens will be world wide. Paul, if you accept science at face value along with it’s multiple theoretical explanations then you have to also at least respect other theories about the 2012 date. You have nothing to offer but second hand theories yourself. I hope this calms your haughty scientific ass down somewhat as you’re becoming rather annoying with your condescending attitude. Paul, I remain, Your friend -Ricochet- Espumpin says: November 5, 2008 at 10:26 AM Am I making mountains out of ant hills? “We are from M113 we are Ad idem we are part of the legion.” 1) Messier 110 (also known as M110 and NGC 205) is a dwarf elliptical galaxy. And it is a satellite galaxy of the Andromeda Galaxy. I know 110 is an earth # we made up but it was the my only find. 2)Ad idem means “Of the same mind” “to the same thing’ 3) The legion- We can all kinda firgure what “they,he/she, it” meant by that. I spent all day looking for some clue or message & i’m more confused than when I started. Am I making mountains out of ant hills? Is this a wait & see deal. Any planetary catastrophe like Earthquakes, Tsunami’s,the econmic problems, Nuclear war is gonna sneak-up on us. 500,000 died before we knew the Tsunami was over 1,000,000 died in mayarmars Earthquake, and we almost went into a new depression lent out 700 billion and ppl didnt even blink there eyes or get a complete answer to their questions. like Leah said “Facts today…..mystery by tomorrow”. I was explaining to my son E=Mc2, His homework asked “Does the inertia of a body depend upon its energy-content” I firgured, Yeah, right? It has to right? Then it hit me like a ton of bricks One of Einstein’s great insights was to realize that matter and energy are really different forms of the same thing. Matter can be turned into energy, and energy into matter. Ad idem okay now everyone knows how ignorant I am and how I have a bad habit of raveing on & on but someone plz tell me Am I making mountains out of ant hills? Espumpin Ricochet says: November 5, 2008 at 10:38 AM Paul you may want to read the Enuma Elish as recommended by my man Espump. The Sitchin groups translation is really interesting. Tiamat being a pre-earth water planet and its many moons including kingu our current moon. But if I remember correctly you can actually decipher what planets were created in what order. Its funny how since works on these matters. How many scientist did Napolean take into Egypt? How many scientist did Hitler send around the world for the same purpose? Paul let me ask you something. Did the Germans find anything in their searches? They certainly came up with some crazy ideas ahead of the rest of thw world didn’t they? Rockets, they had designs of flying saucers!!! You’re going to love this one Paul. There is a theory that the Germans were contacted by aliens and given an advantageous knowledge in these matters. How that for a consipiracy theory!! There is nothing new under the sun. -R- Ricochet says: November 5, 2008 at 10:56 AM Leah, we want concrete answers too don’t we? Everyone wants it in black and white but the gray is always there. Its like. Who cares if Paul wants concrete answers!!! Let him offer something concrete!! All I see is copy and paste stuff just as it appears at the top of this blogs initiation. Wikipidia copy and paste. Tell me how those two base stones were raised into place at Baalbek!! I want concrete answers!!!! We don’t have the technolgy today to even create the machinery that would accomplish this feat and Paul talks about “science”. Cut us some slack with all this black and white crap!!! Explain to me the gray!!!! Then I will gladly reciprocate with concrete answers. No one that leans so much on science as a crutch will be able to explain the Genesis 6 passage in the bible and the coroboration by the Sumerian/Akkadian clay tablets which should all be considered mans History and not so called mythology. Science can only explain something after it has been totally discovered or uncovered as it were. But it can’t even read a scripture right. Talk to us Paul. Tell us about how the Maya became the masters of time. Maybe they existed in those mountains for enough eons to record all those star movements. At which point in their existance did they decide to study the skies? You better start looking into forbiden histories. You better start beliveing in UFO’s. You better start looking at all conspiracies. Oh and Paul. You know how we keep our flexibilty on a matter by stating “its not written in stone” ? Well the calendar is written in stone. Your science isn’t. There is always room for discovery. -R- Espumpin says: November 5, 2008 at 11:27 AM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18CY7ZaCfzY Paul Eaton-Jones, we are all looking for answers. We know enough to know we may not have said answer or might be looking right at it without knowing the right question. Click onto the above video and fastforward to the 3:00 mark. Keep an open mind. We’re just trying to help each other see through the mudd, make the grey more B&W. & like -Ricco said we’re your friend here plz enlighten us because we have been know to shut up and listen when knowledge is spouted & we bear fangs around ignorance. Mine is just accepted cuz I admit to my ignorance humbly. Espumpin Amit says: November 5, 2008 at 8:20 PM Dear Paul, please take out some time to read the post below.. Now lets hear some answers from your “Rational Science”… I had posted this in another thread when another person of your kind asked me to put forth some “Extraordinary Evidences” to support my views…. Extraordinary Evidence No. 1 – Ancient Pyramids. There is significant proof to date the Pyramids to around 11,000 BCE for their construction. Certainly, with our technology of today we could build such monuments to the precision of these great structures – but… what about back in 11,000 BCE? The Humans of the Bible were farmers and Shepard’s. The technology didn’t exist to create such structures. Now, look at the Maya and their Calendar. Their understanding of astronomy and astrology far exceeded their ability to understand the stars yet they provided us with a calendar, which has been exacting. The examples of technology exist through out our history yet scholars often refuse to consider this when putting together their thesis or journals. It isn’t mainstream science, thus it would bring way too much attention and critique and essentially ruin their career. In the Sumerian Epic, the story of Creation and the Garden of Eden are shared. The Great Flood is also a favorite written in the Epic. These stories aren’t changed all that much when represented in the Bible – however, they are manipulated. The Sumerian Epic tell of the Anunnaki; a race of beings from Nibiru who created Humans by taking the indigenous beings on Earth and splicing their own DNA with that of the Aliens. The Anunnaki were greatly advanced beings and created the great monuments found on the Earth; Moon; Mars and other solid planets/moons within our corner of the Universe. The purpose for creating Humans is also written in the Epic. Humans were created to be servants of the gods. Many would have called the early humans, slaves. We were used to mine precious minerals such as gold. Still to this day, gold is considered a highly sought after mineral. Researching the Sumerian Epic will also tell you reasons for this unique status of gold. I guess you might also be a firm believer of the Theory of Evolution, which is adored so much by the Rational Scientists.. Now lets question that too.. Extraordinary Evidence No. 2 – DNA. The number of ways that any group of N objects can be arranged is: N x (N-1) x (N-2) x . . . x 1 Thus, 4 objects can be arranged in 24 ways (i.e., 4 x 3 x 2 x 1) and 5 objects can be arranged in 120 ways (i.e., 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1) We’re told that the earth was formed 4,600,000,000 years ago and the universe began 15,000,000,000 years ago. These seems like pretty big numbers, and pretty long periods of time during which anything could have happened. When viewed from the perspective of probabilities, however, it’s just a flash in the pan. The number of ways a deck of just 52 cards can be arranged is about: 80,658,175,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 That’s 80 million trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion DNA has over 3 billion base pairs of 4 separate chemicals. Can you imagine what odds must be involved in sequencing them into perfect order in a mere 4.5 billion years through chance and adaptation alone! Life, however, is not just a random draw from a deck of chemical cards, but a precisely assembled house of cards built from specific combinations of components. Extraordinary Evidence No. 3 – The Eye – Evolution theory has never adequately explained how organs of extreme design and perfection could “evolve” Even Darwin recognized the challenge it posed to his theory in the chapter entitled “Difficulties of the Theory” in his book “The Origin of Species”: “To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.” Charles Darwin, 1859 If you’re viewing this page with a 1024×768 resolution monitor, you’re seeing 786,432 pixels of light. A high speed Internet connection typically delivers web content at around 500,000 bytes of information per second. In comparison, your eye sees about 125,000,000 pixels of light through five distinct kinds of neurons, processing about 10,000,000 point images per second. Your eye is remarkably efficient, able to produce a signal with only one photon. How do we realistically explain by chance and adaptation the design and manufacture of an organ that far surpasses the technology of cameras and computers which have taken the collective efforts of mankind centuries to develop? Extraordinary Evidence No. 4 – Phi (Golden Proportion) The Fibonacci number, phi, is more than a mathematical curiosity. It is one of the most amazing and pervasive numbers known to man. This, above all numbers, would be a perfect sign to tell us that creation is not just the result of random processes Fibonacci, Phi and Spirals in Nature: If you sum the squares of any series of Fibonacci numbers, they will equal the last Fibonacci number used in the series times the next Fibonacci number. This property results in the Fibonacci spiral seen in everything from sea shells to galaxies DNA The DNA molecule, the program for all life, is based on the golden section. It measures 34 angstroms long by 21 angstroms wide for each full cycle of its double helix spiral. 34 and 21, of course, are numbers in the Fibonacci series and their ratio, 1.6190476 closely approximates phi, 1.6180339. The Solar System The average of the mean orbital distances of each successive planet expressed in relation to the one before it approximates phi. Plants Plants illustrate the Fibonacci series in the numbers and arrangements of petals, leaves, sections and seeds. Many plants produce new petals in quantities that are based on Fibonacci numbers. Each successive level of branches is often based on a progression through the Fibonacci series. Extraordinary Evidence No. 5 – Irreducible Complexity We’re told that life evolved from the very simple to the highly complex, which would make sense if it were true. The truth, however, is that even the simplest of life forms are highly sophisticated pieces of biological machinery. Every living cell contains DNA, the program which describes every aspect of the organism’s physical design and life functions, including: ingestion digestion conversion to energy excretion of waste respiration reproduction circulation growth locomotion regulation response to stimuli A cell would not really be “alive” or survive unless all life functions became operable at once, so how did even a “simple” single-celled organism “evolve”? We’re told by scientists and academicians that finding or creating a simple molecule of amino acid is evidence of “life,” yet DNA of even a simple E. coli bacteria cell contains 4.6 million base pairs, or 9.2 million bits of information. Does evolution theory offer any evidence or even a truly plausible explanation as to how even a single bacteria cell came into being? So, are these evidences enough for you?? You might say that I have just argued against Evolution. But Divine Intervention and Alien Intervention are one and the same thing. So when Divine Intervention is proved, it points to the Anunnaki. And the presence of Anunnaki on Earth proves the reliability of the information encoded in the Ancient Monuments and Artifacts (Including Mayan Calendar) ….. And obviously Enuma Elish! Go Figure….. Amit says: November 5, 2008 at 8:35 PM Dear Espumpin, I dont think you are making mountains out of mole hills….. But i guess there are a lot of people who are making “mole hills out of mountains!” Your point about Messier is quite uncanny.. The more i think of Debauch, the more my head spins.. Do you remember “Law of One”? Ra – The Sixth Density Social memory Complex… There are 5 thick books on the matter…. So obviously, there are entities from other planes/dimensions that have contacted us from time to time…. Here is the link – http://llresearch.org/library/the_law_of_one_pdf/the_law_of_one_pdf.aspx Ricochet says: November 5, 2008 at 10:06 PM 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 (New King James Version) 8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known. 13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love. I always misunderstood this passage. Now I see it as something else. I see it as describing telepathy. Where you now see face to face. I can see you as well as you can see me, no lies no deceipt. See where it says now we know in part and prophesy in part? Well its like having parts of a whole which is how we live today. But when the time comes there will be no need even for language, look at the passage. It says tongues will cease. Wouldn’t it be just great if this 2012 event came with an actual overnight evolutionary phenomenom? Yeah, I’d like that too. What happened to paul? I didn’t see any scientific explanation offered about the trilithon. See amit? When you start telling these people that the mayan calendar is actually of alien origin they just write us off. I love it. Ok, anyone please explain how they raised those base stones at Baalbek? That place was already ancient when the Romans built that Heliolopolis temple there. I have an an even easier question – Who built the original temple at Baalbek? When you have the correct answer to these questions you will have the answer as to the authenticity of the maya calendar and you will understand that it was intended to represent an age in the existance on mankind. What makes this blog so great is that the people here are from so many parts of the world yet we are all drawn here on this subject. I don’t mind people like Paul but he had already gotten a little comfortable using the word lunatic to describe us that believe in the event and well screw him. Anyway, I’m starting to ramble here. You guys sleep well and thanks for tonights enlightenment. -Rico- Ricochet says: November 5, 2008 at 10:15 PM http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_baalbek_1.htm For those interested in what I’m talking about – Baalbek. -R- Martin says: November 5, 2008 at 10:49 PM I feel sorry for paul. It seems he has been silenced by an atomic blast of words. Not that I agree with him. The Chinese have used science for their pleasure, like firewords, western culture used science to kill people… Science can explain what has happened in the past, then it extrapolates to tell us the future. On what basis? linear function, e-function or what? Can science explain us why things happening? Why the bigbang, why the tsunami, why vulcano eruptions? It tells us how it works that a vulcano erupts and so on but why. If it can why not tell us ahead, so that we can be prepared for the tsunami and evacuate the people in Indonesia, Thailand, Myanmar, Sri Lanka? Even Einstein, one of the greatest scientist, in the end believed in a power of creation. Why? If there is a power of creation then there is a power of destruction, can we predict these powers with science? Martin says: November 5, 2008 at 10:56 PM Leah, thanks to you back on the track. Thoughts are matter, intersting. This is why some people can read the thoughts of others? How about conciousness is matter as well? According to the Lord Buddha, everything in this universe consists of four elements, air, water, fire and earth element. Consciousness, thought, memory, associations, feelings and body. All of them are made from these four elements, different mixture. Intersting? or dismissing? Martin says: November 5, 2008 at 11:04 PM On Debauch 2nd Nov whats going to happen? Now only ten days left. I would guess that it is not one of the catastrophic events we all are familiar with. That would not be too convincing. More like finding the lost continent of Atlantis. Or finding the records of this lost civilazation in Egypt? I will be looking forward Martin- Thailand skeptic says: November 5, 2008 at 11:16 PM It would be wonderful if aliens existed, or if there were actual Divine Planning for existence, or at least a whole lot less challenging than the scientific explanation: ‘well, this is what we think it means, but we have to do more research.’ The thing of it is, while there may well be spirituality in the universe in some form or fashion, physics WORKS. The more we study how things work, the better our theories become at predicting how things work. The magnetic field may well flip in 2012; or 2512, or whenever, but let’s say 2012 is the date. First, I can see the Mayans figuring out that SOMETHING was going to happen in 2012, but having no idea what. Their calendar is accurate to something like 3 millionths of a second, so it’s not hard to think they could observe relatively esoteric astronomic phenomena. But the world won’t end, and it certainly won’t stop spinning…. Stop spinning??? Are you kidding me?? Just on it’s axis the earh rotates at 1,000 mph, and that doesn’t even cover the cyclical rotation around the sun, or rotation of the entire solar system around the galaxy. Do you have any idea how much kinetic energy it would take to stop a 7,000 mile wide ball of rock to completely stop spinning? We, the atmosphere, the oceans, and probably the earth’s crust would be sucked off the planet like a giant hoover. That is, assuming the energy in question didn’t come from a collision, which is another (but unfortunately very real, even if unlikely) matter entirely. And let’s get our terms right: if we have wars and calamities enough to wipe off humanity, well, humanity ends, but the world goes right on. Some of the ‘end of the world’ conspirists seem to conflate the world ending with humanity ending, which is a bit too humano-centric for my taste. Finally; if you really want to do something constructive, push your government or business of choice into aggressively colonizing space. The key to the future of humanity is OUT THERE….. Leah says: November 6, 2008 at 8:29 AM Another post not appearing. Same old same old. Welcome back, Martin and Becky. In reply to your question Martin, yes consciousness, thought, emotions, all energy / matter, just not tangible…..just like fire…can’t hold it…just feel its effects. Fire being the cause. Leah Leah says: November 6, 2008 at 8:47 AM Dear Paul Eaton-Jones, You are naturally at liberty to think and write as you see fit. However, you have in one post managed to categorise e.g. me, as someone who fell hook line and sinker, for ancient writings, having believed them word for word literally, without due consideration. Peer review…..peer approved…..Peers do not equal fact in truth nor truth in fact, nor do they have a monopoly on truth, or for that matter any more than a different perspective than myself. It is the accepting of the word of other HUMANS, whos opinions and ideas are sided with. Since when did approval or permission become a prerequisite for a new idea or theory ? What next…need to buy a permit to have even a thought ? Leah Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 6, 2008 at 2:05 AM Wow Richochet. So you ‘re privy to the meaning of hidden texts. If they’re hidden how come you and your knuckle dragging band of nitwits have discovered them and academia hasn’t studied them. It’s time you were carried off in the rubber ambulance to a place of tranquility. The stones at Baalbek and other ancient monuments? Levers and ramps old boy. At one time the construction of the pyramids defied explanation but then scientists and architects realised that the Egyptians would probably use similar techniques as we might use to build similar structures i.e. as system of ramps that encircled the pyramind as it grew. No mention of magical powers, no help from Cthulu or flying saucers, no need to invoke God/god/gods and similar brain-achingly ridiculous theories. Idiot. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 6, 2008 at 2:08 AM Leah. “We” are the rational people who come to a decision based on facts. Even within the scientific community there are those who do believe in a higher power – god- but some of us don’t. I don’t mind appearing arrogant here when I say some of us have moved ona nd away from such things as religion and belief in the supernatural./ Leah says: November 6, 2008 at 9:28 AM Another post bites the dust. The D and GJ thing…..all have to have an e-mail address to post. Andre gave his details…but there was no reply…..yet. Those that wish to could try to get in touch. Leah says: November 6, 2008 at 9:34 AM Will try for the last time. The Great Pyramid, if built by past humans alone, is testament to them knowing a thing or few. Why are so many bothered by past civilisations having technology / knowlege / wisdom ? It insults their egos. Leah says: November 6, 2008 at 9:52 AM Telepathy is a frightening prospect for many. There would be no place to hide thoughts, let alone an agenda to supress or dominate the will and freedom of another. Leah says: November 6, 2008 at 10:01 AM A penny for “Just a Thought” at this juncture, if you are out there. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 6, 2008 at 4:30 AM Richochet. I can assure that all the replies I’ve made here are NOT ‘cut and paste’ from the net but are either hard facts I have worked out/seen myself or garnered from books on astronomy, history, archaeology written by academics. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 6, 2008 at 4:53 AM Amit. Tiamat a pre-Earth water planet. Where was it/which star did it orbit? How come it’s not mentioned amongst any of the 200+ extra-solar planets discovered in the past 20 years? I always thought Tiamat was the personification of a water god. Their creator god? There can’t be a theory about the Germans being contacted by aliens because it never happened. Where in any of the books about the history of WW2 or the Third Reich is this mentioned? And anyway the advantageous knowledge they received didn’t work, did it? Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 6, 2008 at 5:04 AM Sorry Amit the above should have been directed to Richochet. This one’s for you. Pyramids 11,000 BCE? Hardly likely as at the time, 9,0000 BC humanity was still emerging from the Ice Age and we were still hunter gatherers. The first settled farmers appeared in the Indus Delta circa 7,000BC, at Cetalhyuk, Turkey c.5000BC. The Egyptian pyramids c.3,500BC. The Great Flood appears to be an aural history, myth if you will, about the breaching of a natural dam at the eastern end of the Med. thus creating the Black Sea. Evidence of habitation has been drdged up from the bottom and dated circa 7,000BC. It’s easy to see how fleeing survivors dispersed N/S/E/W would carry the terrible event with them and by the time written records appear this legend has been taken up by Near East/East European society. I have absolutely no problem with Sumerian/Babylonian legends morphing into Hebrew stories. I’ll try wading through the rest of your stuff later as now I have to get back to work. In the mean time I suggest you subscribe to your local library and read books rather than find you information on the net. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 6, 2008 at 5:50 AM Where are the people who responded at the top of the page? Todd Sielling, Keith and Astro? Voices of reason. It’s bvloody difficult taking on all this bollocks. No Martin, I haven’t been silenced by an atomic blast of words. I’m fairly bomb-proof and it will take more than the drivel here to deflect me. Even though you disagree with my direction at least the things I’ve read that you’ve submitted appear very considered in comparison with most of the things here. becky says: November 6, 2008 at 7:17 AM good morning to you all–thank you for having me back…just a couple quick thoughts–nothing very relevant… regarding debauchs post—it unnerved me—not by fear or doubt–but because–for me–it rang of recognizable truth and familiarity…perhaps when he meets us “face to face”, is exactly what ricochet pointed our in corinthians…. in quantrun physics, a “planker” is the point where energy turns to matter…and perhaps that is part of the “it’s not real” reference… depending on who you are, what you see,and what you believe–it could very well “be real”… ian–thank you for another thought-provoking and very debatable article…just a simple silly thought—you can watch the compass points all you want, but in my simple world, i will watch which way the water swirls when i flush the toilet… for those who know me, i do not expect huge cataclysmic events that will wipe out all of humanity…we have plenty of them right now—do not think for one second that any of us are or will be exempt…we will all be affected in one way or another as things start to unfold…we ALL are now— we just do not recognize it as such…be diligent…keep your eyes and minds open…do not discard anyone’s ideas as bunk…and do not shoot the messengers…there is no room for black and white “right or wrong”(right now, there are only shades of gray)…in time–all questions will have their answers..and we will ALL be able to say “now i know what he/she was talking about”…be prepared–it might “unnerve you”… thank you–as always–for your kind indulgance of my “out in left field” thoughts… so glad we all made it through this one small “transition”… love and best wishes to you all.. becky Leah says: November 6, 2008 at 2:47 PM Ok. There is time to have healthy exchange of ideas and theories…..or there is time to argue. Whichever way one looks at it, there is not enough time for both. Each to their own perspective. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 6, 2008 at 7:50 AM Just read the Debauch posting with his? list of people etc. That HAS to be a windup. If M113 is supposed to be the 113th object in Charles Messier’s catalogue I have to tell you that there only 110. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 6, 2008 at 8:17 AM So a bunch of Accadian/Sumerian gods written about in a creation myth 4000+ years old are going to solve our problems/smite us for not believing/appear magicallyand rectify the credit crunch/help Chelsea win the European Champions league or something else that is of concern to you – take your pick. All your gods, deities etc are a pretty poor bunch of entities. Spiteful, petty, wrathful, vengeful, in Zeus’ case a rapist, neglectful and vain. Asking for prayers, tribute, blind obeidience and of course virgins. What do they give in return? Nothing but fear of eternal damnation and suffering if you don’t prostrate yourselves in the dust and beg for mercy. All of them, Baal, Moloch, Zeus, Chronos,Odin, Thor, Ra, Vishnu, Shiva,God, Jehovah, Yaweh, Allah, should they actually exist, are feeble-minded, insane, drooling, pathetic creatures that deserve our distain. If I’ve offended anyone……. good because all your mindless ravings offend me. Be gone you wasteful collection of protoplasm. I will be back to attack other crimes against reason when I’ve dug out a few BOOKS on ancient civilisations written by real authors who have submitted work to be peer reviewed rather than post badly thought out ramblings on the web. Stay happy. 😉 Leah says: November 6, 2008 at 3:56 PM True enough. Sin, was chaos, possibly the chaos that humans have wrought since, with their curiosity, but without wisdom from the tree of life. Its reminding me of Thoth, and how its time for the remaining ta*lets to be released. Espumpin says: November 6, 2008 at 9:11 AM Excuse me Paul Eaton-Jones, I agree with you. first though plz understand why. As a man of science I can only believe the proof in front of me. Speculation and theory go hand in hand. I’ve said before if one being created the entire universe, I hope that being won the science fair or nobel or something cuz this is pretty amazing work. and I would laugh out loud in ignorance. How can Gods of love let suffering take place. I donot go to church and I donot watch CNN. Because I don’t believe either of them is telling the truth. You discredit research from the net because you realize its tainted, So have all the books we have read growing up. History is written by the winners. Thats why they don’t mention how the Native American were given blankets coated with small pox, you say thats false the indians say its true. Who do you believe with the knowledge you have now on the subject. Without researchig you can tell something killed off all those ppl, right? My point is The stones at Baalbek are there proof, fact. How we are not even able to lift one of those stones with our strongest machines thats a fact look it up. I dont know how they did it I wont lie and say I think I know because I need proof before I run my mouth so I know where i’m running. Now I may rant and rave but one of my favorite nobel winning scientis said and I qoute…”The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.” the same person also said and I qoute…”A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest… a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.” Can you guess who this is? Before I finish I would like to say that there is nothing I cannot find the one true God in now. You have to read what D & Gj were saying on the other thread to get were i’m going. God is not sitting on a chair or at the edge of your bed when they say here everywhere. It was potrayed in that manner to scare us keep us under thumb so to speak. anyway the qoutes are all from the same person hopefuly someone you respect so as you can come to understand what were saying has already been said over & over, Just noone wants to listen. And I qoute……….”My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind…The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking…the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker.” Sory for any misspelling or confusion I dont get time to proof read I just hope I added a little and not just took up space. Oh and Paul we still love ya buddy even if you care to know why. Espumpin Leah says: November 6, 2008 at 8:07 PM Dear Just a Thought, Thank you. Where do I send the Penny. Be well, Leah Dear Martin, In Hungary the word Correct is used in the context of truthful. To be and behave in line with truth. Nice one, Leah Leah says: November 6, 2008 at 8:14 PM Dear Martin, Thought you might like this one. When diving off the coast of Florida, a diver found some not so ruined ruins, and brought back with him a crystal sphere. I’ll dig out the article sometime. I was not there, as I was not there for the building of the pyramids…..but I listen….load everything in, then sift and analyse. So please, remeber that, I’ve still not voiced belief. Interesting though. Leah Leah says: November 6, 2008 at 8:33 PM Dear Martin, Mental black hole….yes. A blank sheet of paper, to draw upon anew. Re-create. Leah Ricochet says: November 6, 2008 at 2:29 PM Listen Paul, you simpleton. The reason we bring up the old deities is not because we feel they need any worship from us. What we’re attempting to convey to that one way adled brain of yours is that the maya calendar is not man made technology. There is no way that these indians in the forest and mountains could have come up with that knowledge. We also are under the impression that the real powers that be are aware of this fact as well as other discoveries that have been made that we are not aware of. I had no idea that you were a scientist. How did you conclude that the Baalbek stones were moved with levers and pulleys when no other scientist can corroborate this? Your problem Paul is that you choose what to believe. You’re scared. You’re very eloquent however you resort to name calling. This leads me to believe that you had a strct upbringing. Perhaps your parents called you names like knuckledragger when you erred in speach or something. Anyway not my issue. We like to refrain from name calling so if you would be so kind as to follow this procedure we would all be greatful. Think you can handle that bro? -R- Ricochet says: November 6, 2008 at 3:10 PM Pauly baby, unfortunately the only books you can read on these ancient civilizations are limited. Only 200 people or so can read the summerian cuniform language and the pre-semitic Akkadian. We do appreciate the fact that you confess ignorance on this subject. Please take your time reading these books and do choose the authors carefully as there some real conservatives out there like yourself. We would also bring to your attention the fact that we consider these gods that you were ranting about, not so much gods in a sense but ……Aliens……So you see, there is much information that you are missing. If you come back here and tell us that theres no such things as UFO’s, and that our governments haven’t been hiding all kinds of discoveries from the general public for decades then I’m sorry to say. We, no, I won’t speak for everyone, I will no longer consider you an intelligent human being. Simple as that, -Rico- Ricochet says: November 6, 2008 at 3:27 PM I understand Pauls slamming the gods, In all the stories man is exploited. The Job story has me sick at times. But the one that really messes me up. The one where I really feel for man. Is the garden of eden story. You see, I don’t see it as original sin. I see it as a lost opportunity. In the story Gods evicts man from the garden not because he disobeyed. But because as he had knowledge now, he would eat from the tree of life and become immortal as one of the Gods. If only he had come to the garden a day later maybe adam would have thought to eat from the tree of life. Wouldn’t that have been something? In all the stories about mans quest for immortality, he fails or he loses it at the last moment. It is always said that man born of woman is fated to die as is a mortals fate. This makes me sad for mankind sometimes and I feel as if we were somehow cheated and were just used as entertainment. The first intelligence came from these guys, the first wars, the first everything all across the world has been credited to these guys. If we are killers or if we are compassionate we inherited these qualities from our creation by these guys as we were created in HIS image. The only difference is…..The tree of life and of course their highly evolved telepathic skills. I sound like some crazy ass comic book story teller but these are facts. All I know is that there is a change coming and i ain’t the Obama election campaign. We talk about 2012 saying it’s such a short time. Its only 4 more years. I can almost guarantee that not everyone in this blog will make it to 2012. So you see, you need to look at this time left to plan something, get a little ready, at least prepare your conscience and your mind and soul as much as you can before this 4 years period expires. It will in fact be, an end of time. Dramatic, -Rico- Just a Thought says: November 6, 2008 at 4:49 PM Leah, Reading,… trying to digest “info.” Just a Thought says: November 6, 2008 at 5:44 PM God evicts man from the garden because man broke a rule, the only rule, and, it was not even something man was required to actually DO. It was something man just had to NOT DO, required no effort on mans part. Sure F’d it up for the rest of us. Ricochet- I’m at a loss my friend. I know we all can think of our own behavior and cannot define our thought process leading to our actions(or lack thereof). The whole “god” issue I have weighed in on from my small perspective, if you beleive anything to be a sin-then to you-it is. Each of our Gods (or lack thereof) live in in each of our hearts, and, in spite of all our denial- we follow our heart. Martin says: November 6, 2008 at 7:35 PM J.a. Thought I couldn’t agree with you more. God lives in our hearts. in Buddhist terminology this God is nothing else than avijja. Avijja commonly mistranslated as delusion. Correct interpretation would be “wanting to know, but not able to know correctly, wanting to understand but not being able to understand correctly” Correctly means in line with the truth Martin says: November 6, 2008 at 8:01 PM Yesterday I followed the link to Baalbeck, from there followed some other links then came across Bermuda triangle, Atlantis, read Platos description of Atlantis. back to the secret underwater area shut off by US govrenment near Bimini, remembered Edgar Caseys statment, that near the cost of florida there will be found an ancient powerplant from the continent of atlantis that gave power to their ships and airplanes. This powerplant is made of a huge crystal ball, that catches the energy of the sun and redirects it to its ships and planes. If in 1945 several us navy airplanes disappeared near there, the us government certainly would seal of this area and keep what is found there as a secret. So many things have been sealed of public by various governments. It would be a feast for scientist all over the world to dive into these secret discoveries. … just some thoughts … Just a Thought says: November 6, 2008 at 8:02 PM Truth An interesting concept ; which way the water swirls when i flush the toilet-northen hemi.-clock=true southern-counterclock =true stupid example, (I am aware of that) however, Each to their own perspective. Ricochet says: November 6, 2008 at 8:20 PM Just a thought. I didn’t mean to offend anyone these were just my thoughts. However you should read the biblical story again.This is formGenesis 3:22-24: 22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: 23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. 24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life Notice in 22 hes speaking to someone he consides his equal when he refers to hem as one of us. I don’t want to get to heavy into it but in this part of Genesis I get the impression that God isn’t all knowing as he has to ask where adam is as opposed to just knowing and the fact that adam heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden before he addresses him. I mean, just read it all. Its like Pauly said, God first punishes the snake, then he punishes the woman, then he punishes adam. Then he decides he can’t trust adam now so he has got to go before he figures out that he won’t die eating from the tree of life also. Thats how I see it. I don’t like to cling to way I was taught to read these things. I read it and it says what it says. Of course its all parable. But you get the idea. You have to be carefull today with Christianity. The religion wa corrupted since the Catholic Church decided this would be their religion. Many early Christian writings were excluded and many of Christs’ teachings were corruped. Its sad but its a fact, probably the purest form of religion is what the shamans do with their drinks and trances. Somewhere along the line we lost the true substance of communion. The grail, the host, the true eucharist. It is now all symbolic, using a wafer and some grape juice. Tragically this what we have today. These are my opinions and are not meant to offend anyone. -Catastrophic Rico- Martin says: November 6, 2008 at 8:21 PM Leah, if you master these four elements, then you are able to create anything you like. Ramana Maharshi was said to be able to create sweets out “nothing” for his mates. If you are familiar with the buddhist canon, above the human realm there are 30 realms of heavenly beings. To make it short, at the top there are gods who delight in creation and there are gods who delight in destruction. It is attributed that they create solar systems, planets and so on. But also they have only a limited time of existence, long about 200 to 300 thousand years. When they die and are for instance reborn as Ramana Maharshi, that would explain his ability. What happens if the mind enters a black hole, e.g. singularity? Everything created ceases to exist including consciousness. What then is left? The uncreated, unconditioned, non-duality. Emerging from this black hole, coming back to the senses you feel refreshed and recharged, just like putting your fingers in an AC outlet. You remember .. going into the world beyond thoughts.. now going into the world beyond phenomena. Have a nice day Martin Martin says: November 6, 2008 at 8:32 PM Leah same over here, I do not believe, e.g. take them as correct or truth. But I find them extremely interesting points of views or explanations for things we cannot explain otherwise. If somebody explains something reasonably or logically I tend to submit and give it credit. Martin says: November 6, 2008 at 8:37 PM Rico, 20 years ago I read most of these apocryphic (or something like this) texts that were omitted from the bible. Very intereting but very difficult to understand. Then through the book Zen Buddhism and Psychoanalysis (Erich Fromm) I came to read the Buddhist texts. So logically and easy to understand. Have a nice day Martin Leah says: November 7, 2008 at 7:24 AM Richard Dawkins…..now thats someone who has decided what is and what isn’t, according to his own preferences. He doesn’t know that its easier to disproove something by actually trying to make it work. A true expert at decrying anthing he personally can’t perceive, and sometimes quite rudely. Leah says: November 7, 2008 at 8:13 AM Dear Paul Eaton-Jones, True enough…..being a race of beings from somewhere else in the universe, doesn’t earn them the title of gods. Those that wrote in ancients times, attached those labels, because of their religions and beliefs. As Ricochet had written on the other thread, Flies in some respect, perceive us as gods, being gigantic and seemingly living forever. It is however all relative. What seems a short time to us is a long time to a Fly. Nothing to forgive. Be well, Leah Leah says: November 7, 2008 at 8:22 AM Dear Paul Eaton-Jones, In the first instance, may I address you as Paul ? Maybe you can shed some light. We’ve lived in our present location for 17 years, UK, but this Spring the sun was setting north north west instead of in the west. Then from one day to the next it was setting in the west again. Leah Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 7, 2008 at 1:46 AM So we’ve gone from an article refuting the totally bogus claims by you end-timers for a cataclysm in 2012 as ‘predicted’ by the Mayan calendar to banging on about non-existant gods, non-existant alien spacecraft [yes I DO believe in intelligent life elsewhere in the galaxy but it hasn’t visited us. Show me the proof], ridiculous assertions that the Egyptians could only have built the pyramids with alien help, lunatics screeching passages form the bible in the belief that the old testament especially holds ‘The Truth’. I notice that very few of the quote come from the new testament where Christ, who I believe was a preacher in the near east 2000 years ago but NOT divine/son of god, spoke of love and forgiveness rather than the death destruction and panic preached by the likes of the old testament prophets. Those people were almost to a man bitter,twisted, mysogynistic, misanthropes. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 7, 2008 at 1:51 AM Rico. So I’m scared am I? Of what? Your truth? If the ancients were so mighty and privy to all this wonderful knowledge why aren’t we benefitting from it now? Why aren’t we living in a Babylonian culture that has lasted 4000+ years? Who has suppressed this knowledge and why? If you have access to it then it is your duty to share it with the rest of the world. Book a prime time spot on the BBC, ABC, CBS, NBC and tell us. Unless of course you’re an alien or one of those who want to keep it all secret. Leah says: November 7, 2008 at 8:53 AM Who wrote Genesis….? The word, even just as spoken by humans is powerful indeed. The words of a politician resulted in being voted in as President of the USA. I would have prefered to hear in the acceptance speech, “To those who would tear the world down……Join us in building the world up.” But hey ho, thats just me…..always with the possitive and constructive. Thinking about the tree of life (a metaphorical tree)…..Science has prooved nothing can be destroyed or gotten rid of in the context of it dying, or not being at all. Everything is energy and it can only ever change. Not even words can be unsaid, or thoughts un-thought. So for me the tree of life is the knowlege / wisdom, that there is no death….only change. Leah says: November 7, 2008 at 8:57 AM Thanks Paul. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 7, 2008 at 2:03 AM Rico/Amit etc. You people must have very small enclosed lives. You must hardly sleep as I imagine you spend you time scouring th enet for your info or are too frightened to sleep in case some monster arises from the deep to menace you. You must creep around in abject fear of the unknown, of governments planning your destruction or keeping secrets from you. Are your nightmares filled with grinning slavering creatures who want your souls? Do you jump at every creak of the floor boards expecting toothsome minor gods to leap from the shadows and bite you? If you find comfort and protection from these things in praying to Moloch and his Babylonian crew etc. well good for you but please don’t clog up a science discussion site. I will defend absolutely your right to hold these views and discuss them amongst yourselves but they have no place in an astronomy/cosmology group. At least we’ve had nothing from the believers in astrology. Startup your own blogs. BTW, I had a great upbringing filled with love and an abundance of books and was encouraged to explore stuff with an open, inquisitive mind. If only everyone had that opportunity. Leah says: November 7, 2008 at 9:19 AM 1500+ underground bases, seed and gene vaults, stockpiling of food by certain agencies, GMO food, water monopolisation, plenty funds for bank bail outs (charitable contributions only for e.g. the starving), SPT, a sense of being kept in the dark, 1984 style surveillance of everyone, within 1 year a dire shortage of oil…then an about face turn, doppleganger capability (CGI on TV, plastic surgery or cloning in the flesh). To name but a few man made causes in recent times for people to wonder what is going on. Leah says: November 7, 2008 at 10:18 AM With the equivalent of 2.2 kilo grammes per day, per human ( @ 6.7 billion people) of cereals, fruit, vegetables and sugar, have already been harvested in 2008. Some went to animal fodder, we then eat the animals. Some went to bio fuels. Even if three quarters + was used as animal fodder (remember we get to eat them) and bio fuel….it leaves enough for each to eat each day, being 550 grams, or roughly 1pound of food in weight. Where is all this produce. Then there’s seafood, which does not require feeding with grain etc (farmed fish etc being a small part and wild seafood being the bulk). Its like water water everywhere, but not a drop to drink. Martin says: November 7, 2008 at 4:10 AM Paul please have a bit of mercy on us. Great scientific discoveries were not made by numbercrunching, but by observing phenomena that lacked explanation at that time. And finding the explanation, for instance the relativity theroy was born. So if we are not allowed to let our imagination run, talking or observing things that cannot yet be explained, then we are poor scientists. Brainstorming is not really scientific, but it led to great results. Even Einstein played with the idea of God, so be so kind and let us play as well. According to you we would have to stop the blog because no scientific input is coming. But I find it a beaty to talk about things we cannot explain, maybe this will lead to a great discovery one day? Coming back to the topic, maybe you can help us with setting up a model of earth that will tell us what exactly will happen to earth if the poles are flipped or the rotation of the earth stops for a while. How will it affect the plates, the continents the weather? Or maybe somthing simpler, the next tsunami, or volcanic eruption, where what strength and what is going to be affected? Even these small events we will have great difficulies in predicting them. Too many unknown factors. Have a nice day Martin Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 7, 2008 at 5:01 AM Hi Martin. It’s not a question of having mecy or otherwise. It’s a question of, 1) asking for proof/evidence of these mysterious ancient powers devolved to Iron Age societies; 2) asking why this knowledge has only been given/passed down to or can be understood by the likes of Amit and Richochet and 3) why they need to use a site ostensibly about astronomy to spout rubbish. As yet science cannot predict when an earthquake.tsunami, volcanic eruption, geo-magnetic reversal will exactly occur. They can with almost 100% certainly say where some of the above will occur. The San Andreas Fault WILL slip; the Anatolian Fault/plate WILL slip; Tokyo Will experience another devastating ‘quake; the east coast of America WILL be inundated by a giant tsunami when the western part of the Canaries/Tenerife peels away and slumps into the Atlantic. Etna, Vesuvius, Pinatubo will erupt causing devastation. BTW, did you realise that Mt. Toba exploded around 78,0000 years ago reducing the human population to way below 10,000 people? Niw THAT is a global catastrophe I can understand and deal with. Make far more sense that Cthulu or Baal suddenly appearing and wiping us out. More later. Just a Thought says: November 7, 2008 at 5:13 AM Ricochet, Had not ment to imply offence, none existed. Cool. Fun stuff, Knowledge and Power Genises Chapter 11 “And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.” Which ended poorly for those folks just as the account from Genesis 3. He seems to be talking to another here too. Info. and ability – fun stuff – but appearently need to be limited. Not my intent to imply that I claim to have a clue-just a thought. BTW PJ there is hope if you would have an open mind. Leah says: November 7, 2008 at 1:14 PM Dave’s post on Ian’s other article….No planet X, of 6th Nov 4.37pm….is worth a read. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 7, 2008 at 6:18 AM The problem with having too open a mind is that it takes in everything without recourse to critical analysis or filtering. Without rational, critical thought we end up with religion and theories about aliens building the pyramids. Thinkers like that WANT there to be a fantastical answer when in reality the actual answer is just as fanastic. It is they who cannot accept reality because it’s too mundane for them. Without their conspiracies, visiting aliens, mysterious technology and ‘masters’ who live in secret caverns they have nothing. Listen to some good heavy rock guys and girls, clear the cobwebs from your minds and embrace the universe as it is not as you would like it to be. You’ve probably worked out that I’m an atheist and if I follow any ‘guru’ it’s Richard Dawkins. Much more later. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 7, 2008 at 7:56 AM But as a critical thinker he quite rightly doesn’t accept religion, for example, at face value. Show him, and me, demonsrable proof of mircales, prayers answered and the existance of god/gods and then perhaps we’ll believe. However, I refer you to one of my earlier posts where I said that should any gods exist they are not worthy of our devotions and tributes. They are spiteful, capricious, feeble-minded gibbering entities who long ago forgot about us. Their adherents cling to a primitive belief that they will return, at some unspecified point in the future but always soon, and whisk the true followers to heaven. The worst are the religious leaders who tell their flocks that the time of return is just around the corner and a few more pounds/dollars, a few more prayers and personal sacrifice will save their souls. This isn’t just a modern t.v. evangelical phenomenon is goes back to pre-biblical times so the Judaeo-Christian/Muslim religions can’t take all the blame. O.k., religion may bring comfort to many but it’s ultimately a way of avoiding taking personal responsibility for one’s actions and putting the blame/resonsibility onto a supernatural being. If you’re Christian/Buddhists/Muslim then your teachings tell you to forgive me. becky says: November 7, 2008 at 8:32 AM good morning all— paul–“thou doth protest too loudly”!!! nobody is disputing the “if’s and when’s” of these natural disasters–that is science of which we are all privy to every day…but it does not end with these catastrophic events or the los of human life…if human life stops, so does your science…for me, it is what happens BEYOND these events…and the souls that drive each human being…this is where faith, hope, and a fundamental belief in something much bigger that ourselves kick in…it simply cannot be all about science…if you are a scientist…how many times have you said, “gee, i HOPE this works.” ????? is hope not what drives you??? the hope of knowing, learning, understanding??? hope is not part of a scientific equation…it is spiritual… JAT—a rather stupid analogy,i admit…but it is simple—for me, it is one simple truth at a time…thanks for, at least, seeing the point… at this time,i am reading edgar cayce’s book on the life of Jesus…the Essenes are talked about in great detail throughout this book… i know you all have talked about the Essenes before, but for me, it is just starting to come “full circle”… the Bible, like so many other “history books”, are missing many key elements… it left up to interpretation–and it can be picked apart to suit almost any agenda…i am not being “blasphemous” here…but the “essence” of the Bible is held in it’s entirety…not in any one book, chapter or verse…remembering , of course, that as it was written–by many– with many parts being “fast-forwarded” over… were subject to the interpretation of the author…and now it’s readers…whether history or prophecy, that remains in the eyes of the beholder… well, guys–that my time–thank so much, as always, for your kind indulgence… my best wishes to you all…and always becky Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 7, 2008 at 8:50 AM Of course you can call me Paul. Off the top of my head the reason why the sun set slightly north of west and then west is due to a number of things, all well known and established. No matter where you are on earth the sun will always set, and of course rise, due west and due east. The phenomenon you observed is in part due to one’s latitude and the time of the year. Between 21st June and 21st December the sun will set north of due west and then south of due west from 21st Dec and 21st June. A quick look at one of my astronomy texts says that on the equator on 21st Dec. the sun sets 23.5* south of west. Six months later it sets 23.5* north of west. However if you travel north you have to use the formula 1/cos( lat) to work out where it sets. Celestial mechanics which involves trigonometry and geometry is difficult and I don’t use it in my hobby. If you like maths then it is I believe easy once you’ve become used to it. Any decent astronomy book, even a beginners book, will sort you out. Paul. becky says: November 7, 2008 at 8:54 AM espumpin–this is just an afterthought..in your nov 6 post, you asked “how Gods of love can let suffering take place”… when things go bad, why are we so quick to blame God??? when things are going good, do we thank him or blame him??? when things are going well, i have never heard one person complain that., “no God of mine would let this happen. this has got to stop…God, please help me get through this.” that bad has got to come with the good…otherwise we would have no guage…when things are bad–they can always be worse…and when things are good–they could always be better…and don’t forget to filter in free will, there…though sometimes we are “victims”, and we suffer through no fault of our own–bad things have to happen–even to good people…God’s tolerance for this does not necesarily make him happy, but it is a necessary evil…and he will always have a hand in guiding us through even the toughest of times… Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 7, 2008 at 9:18 AM Becky. There is, I hope, nothing beyond life. There is no afterlife, no Nirvana, Elysian fields, no heaven no soul in the religious sense. What makes us human is in our brains – the ability to reason. Beyond that we’re just a collection of chemicals, electrical impulses etc. How we think, perceive and reason and what they all ACTUALLY are is of course the subject of ongoing research and debate. But once you bring the supernatural, divine or mystical into the equation you have moved out of the realm of science and into religious belief and some would say irrationality. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 7, 2008 at 9:23 AM Anyway I’m about to finish work and head off home for the weekend where I will imerse myself in the erudite writings of Dawkins, Henry Hodges, Graham Clark, Aubey Burl and Carl Sagan. If the names are unfamiliar to Amit and Richochet – look ’em up. Some are archaologist and experts on ancient building technology. And not a mention of aliens or ‘mysterious old ones’ who came along to lend a hand raising the stones. Have a good weekend all. See you on Monday. Paul. Leah says: November 7, 2008 at 7:28 PM We’ve had the dark ages, a 1000 years full of war and disease. Stormy times. We have since had a 1000 years, in comparison much more peaceful and healthier times. What a waste, of a million good ideas, if the human race allows itself to dive into the depths of darkness once again. On the subject of a pole shift of some sort. Science is the form that inspects and studies that which has happened, or has already begun to happen, with a view to being able to predict the same happening NEXT time. E.g. Earthquakes will be very accurately predicted once enough have been observed. That though is no consolation to those that are already dead due to earthquakes. Likewise with pole shifts, science will only understand after it has experienced one. Until then, science has only a stack of hypotheses to offer, theories, ideas, supositions, postulations etc etc etc. I remember a time when science categorically stated “All matter in the universe was created at the moment of the Big Bang” therefore all matter was the same number of years old. Then some years later they scratched their heads, the dandruff flew, and they wondered how it was that, this was not the case. If all things on Earth are not the same age, how could everything in the universe ever be the same age. Now astronomers are scratching their heads over what they’ve called, The Dark Flow, The Great Attractor , Dark Matter /Energy……..no need to list more. I love the sciences…..not the sometimes barbaric methods they employ……but it was observation, writings of old and philosophy that gifted me understanding. Leah says: November 7, 2008 at 7:37 PM Everyday, have eyes, (and every sense that can be mustered) wide open to spot Sinronicity and Convergance. Or for the pure science brigade, Critical Mass. Shame few spotted critical mass re recent economics, and financial meltdown, due to their preference that it not happen. It happened in spite of all the preferences, hopes and wishes against it. Leah says: November 7, 2008 at 8:31 PM Like Just a Thought said, some things need to be believed to be seen. Those that didn’t believe, didn’t see the financial crash……therefore did nothing to protect themselves…..why ? because they didn’t believe it could happen. QED. Leah says: November 7, 2008 at 9:17 PM Hi Just a Thought, Yup read it, hence my previous post. One mans meat is still another mans poison. Truth to one is a lie to another. Leah Leah says: November 7, 2008 at 9:24 PM When man tires of playing with physical toys….man plays with the psyche of others. Ricochet says: November 7, 2008 at 5:43 PM Its a waste of time talking to Paul about this because he obviously believes in no God or gods or visting aliens. Paul you actually avoid reading any book that contains the subjects we’re bringing up here. You go out of your way to keep things neat and oderly, no chance for any ghost in your life. No UFO’s, No aliens, no gods, no nothing thats not concrete in your little mind. Thats what I meant when I said that you were scared. I mean, I read all kinds of books. The books I favor on this subject come from what the book stores label the “speculation” dept. You however, don’t speculate. Its ok, I understand, but you must also understand that you are limited in your lack of faith because thats all speculation is really. So all I can say at this time is that we can agree to disagree. Pauly, May the gods bless you bro! -R- Just a Thought says: November 7, 2008 at 8:49 PM Hey Becky, I borrowed your analogy because it was a tool to say what one person knows to be true may not hold true to another. Grand example I thought! What I meant was I felt silly not being able think of my own. Just a Thought says: November 7, 2008 at 9:00 PM Ann said this: “I guess some people just choose to be oblivious to what is coming and that is OK. When it happened to Atlantis, most people didn’t believe it either and most of them were gone!” Ann said this and I wanted to share this with those around the campfire. Leah says: November 8, 2008 at 10:06 AM Accidently posted on the Comments page instead of here. Its still working. becky says: November 8, 2008 at 9:33 AM good morning, everyone!!! thank you, ann!!! leah–loved your “scratching of the head, and dandruff flying” thoughts…in my book, you are always so “spot on”…it has been my thought for a long time that conventional science just does not apply any more…what i wonder is why no one is willing to look “outside the box”…is is because they are apprehensive, or because they don’t know how??? the old ways may not necessarily be the the “best” way, but it is the SAFEST, because they are the most famiiar… i imagine “new” or “different” is pretty scary in the scientific world… LEAH, i also found myself in serious consideration of your nov 7 posts, and the undisclosed things that are happening around us, but that are so obvious to so many…”water, water everywhere…but not a drop to drink”…please don’t dispair just yet—the “depths of darkness” may be for those who built those underground “tombs” …the rest will be “heading toward the light”… paul–my man–nov 7–did i read you right???? did you actually say “I HOPE ??? …there is no life after death????” WOO HOO !! —hope does spring eternal!!!!!! no “slam”, here, paul—i really AM interested in (and need) your understanding of things…AND, thanks for putting up with me… ( but i still maintain that we will meet you on the other side) …and.. that’s enough from me!!!! my best to you all, becky Leah says: November 8, 2008 at 6:40 PM An Einstein quote…”Better I’d been a Locksmith”. As it was in the metaphorical garden of Eden, so it is now….that man must learn to resist the temptation to use knowlege gained, for ill use, such as war. The one thing man should NOT do, is destroy ourselves. If this kind of temptation is not conquered this time, the human race may end up rebooting again…….that is if it does’t succeed 100% in its destructive endeavours. Imagine if enough atomic explosions occured in one location, it would be like a large asteroid hitting earth. Possibly resulting in knocking Earth off its present axis. With a net gain in population of 65,000,000 this year, the VOLUNTARY reduction of population is the solution to most immediate and long term human created problems. Greed for power over another and wealth, is something that only each individual can battle with, within themselves. As for those things beyond Earth that could harm us…….time spent fighting, could have been time spent learning and preparing if needs be. Espumpin says: November 8, 2008 at 1:49 PM “what if your wrong?” about everything you think is right in your life. “what if your wrong?” & every desioin you have made has led you down the path your not suppose to be on, in stead of seeing things more clearly more in foucused your nrear-sighted or far-sighted. you need glasses we need glasses. DR.R.Dawkins, says in “The God Delusion”, Dawkins contends that there is no God. He’s right & Im wrong? Why? Because he has a P.H.D.? They gave him glasses to see things given the same proof and clues the rest of us got? He is privy to higher knowledge than the rest of us? Graham clark- discovered Sirus B, That means he was a Star Gazer, right? in layman terms. no? Aubrey burl most well known for his studies into Megalithic momunments. Carl Sagan Promoted S.E.T.I, He wrote the novel that was turned into the film Contact. And was the person responsible for insuring the first spacecraft apllo 7 or something had on board an unalterable and universal message on the spacecraft that was sent to leave our solar system. I dont want to go back and foth trying to dicredit each other lets learn to disagree and try to find a pair of glasses we can share and learn from together.That we we wont get blind sided, nobodys gonna trust us but what if all it does take is opening up and trusting,caring & then loving one another for no other reason than..no other reason. In a world where we worship $ more than family members, when one way or another we are all on this planet together where or how we originated is as less important as why we all s**t from our a**. There has to be more than eveolution Cone Snails there are about 500 different species of cone snails look it up. Cone snail use a harpoon-like structure to kill their prey anyway they use a poision only thing is each species and i’m not making this up has a different type of venom & each one is unique to eachs own class they do not overlap and esach poision give a different affect on humans they cure different dieseases, rthis is new stuff look it up, now thats not by eveolution thats amazing Do I think there is one single being sitting on a throne looking down at this planet in particular? No. What is out there is the stuff of legends and our minds energy taht some call a soul energy cannot be destroyed or created it is simply there first law in thermo dynmiacs or something like that bbut again a fact. anyway this is my ranting a** saying I wanna hear what you have to say but I dont wanna keep name calling. Thers no need we can be friends If you think something Geometric is gonna happen lay it on me I think dsomethimes I should get a boat and 2 of those big dumpsterd you see in the back of a restaruant im saying if the world stopped spinnning and it was gonna start again anyway I would put the dumpsters on the boat ride out to thwe middle of the ocean get westsuits tanks oh and mattresses in the dumpsters 2 of them to spilt my family and when the world starts they would fli to the bottom of the ocean put the spinning would make water fly up to the top so i would land on soft bottom of ocean stuff that would now be the top & hopefully we would live, well I had more time on my hands than I thought and I know this is “just talking” but we should all do as much to each other at least just endulge ok i hate when I lose my thought. Till Obama admits the jobs not that fun Make Mine Mavel. Espumpin becky says: November 9, 2008 at 8:30 AM good morning–all!!! leah, the things that will harm us most are already here–they did not come from beyond…to win the battle, we must fight our own demons first… has anyone noticed the frequency and ease with which the word “transition” is being used in the media as obama prepares to take office??? putting all political inuendos aside,it will suffice to say that obama was not my personal choice, but these will be VERY interesting times, indeed…i wish him well, and i hope he does good, but i don’t think he understood the full magnitude of that which he sought…russia is already getting “testy”…iran’s president has already contacted obama…north korea’s president hospitilized due to complicatons from a stroke…peacetalks in the middle east at a stalemate once again…afghanistan is rapidly becoming our “new biggest threat”…worldwide, people and governments are watching and waiting… …savior or antichrist??? (he rose to the ultimate power in just 4 years)…PLEASE–no offense intended-just thinking out loud!!!!! i realize this has nothing to do with the overall context of this thread…(magnetic reversal) scientifically, it’s not equatable, or even worth a second thought for some…but i can’t help but think that somehow it’s all related…especially considering leah’s thought that big bombs going off on one side of the world will most certainly affect us all… for me…these are unknown variables in the overall equation (a+b+c+d+=signs of the times) espumpin–interesting rant–just not sure i understood the question???? tempers will flare , at times, when we become passionate about something…there is no harm in that–the harm comes with disrespect…so rant and rave to your heat’s content…. amit, hope you are well—the same to each and all…no one in excluded there… best wishes and enjoy your day.. becky jim says: November 9, 2008 at 8:51 AM here’s a stock tip–buy KFC Leah says: November 9, 2008 at 6:55 PM Dear Ricochet, I can assure you that I’m well aware of the effects of conflicting religion and belief systems throughout recorded history. Also of greed for wealth and power. Whats is not logical, is for a hi tech race from somewhere else in space, to be able to travel all the way here, but need primitive slaves for anything at all. With all the tech, if their interest was only what they could take from Earth i.e. Gold, they could have taken it and left. The only motive to genetically alter humans, teach them to mine gold, amongst other things, could be to make a supply ready for them when they next passed by. Our DNA may also be of interest, and needed time to mature and evolve, in readiness for their next visit. In which case they would probably view humans as chatels. Ricochet says: November 9, 2008 at 4:19 PM Leah do you realize that the worlds instability in terms of war is religious difference? The most unstable region in the world is the middle east. This is a religious war. Paul the reason i concentrate on the Old Testament as opposed to the New Testament is because the OT validates the NT. In other words, Yeshua is the son of Yahweh and Yahweh first appears in the OT. So what I do is go back to where its starts. This is also why most of my interest is the the Sumerian pantheon of gods. Because they preceed all others ie; Greek, Roman, Christianity. The first pantheon came from that area. In almost all other pantheons you can equate the god stories to some god of the sumerian pantheon. Example: RA = Marduk. Whats really amusing to me is that I have not offered any metaphysical explanations here regarding God or gods. I’ve simply pointed out a scientific speculation that has been made regarding these gods, it has been speculated that they may have been ancient astronauts. Nothing metaphysical about that. Nothing supernatural. These astronauts may have been telepathically gifted with an extraordinary life span. Still nothing supernatural or metaphysical. All of these things have been speculated. Just as it has been speculated that the pyramids were built using pulleys and levers by ancient egyptians. Its all speculation. We have to be adults about this and consider the evidence available and use judgement to discern what is feasable when we indulge ourselves in reading these theories. I, like most people here was raised with religion in my family. Somehow, again like most people while growing up you lose the way so to speak. But being as how you were raised with religion you always have questions and doubts and some of us look for meaning and some don’t. In my search I beacme fascinated with Genesis 6 of the OT. This lead me to Zecharia Sitchins books and other material such as apocrypha and anything pertaining to what I was interested in. I assure you Paul that no matter how much a scientific approach you want use on this subject it cannot be done. There is too much speculation and of course there is so much information that is withheld. Anyway, the countdown has begun. Tick tock baby tick tock, -Ricochet- Ricochet says: November 9, 2008 at 4:30 PM Hi Becky, you hit the nail on the head. Obama is a very important part of the times. All the problems that you mentioned would have had to been dealt with by any candidate that won. The transition is important because until he swears in he won’t be president and anything can happen between now and then. So beware the transition. All of those world issues that you mention will not be getting any better but will assuredly escalate as the next few years go by. These things have been getting worse for years. Its not just starting. Its been very quiet on the Israeli front also which worries even more than all the rest. I just hope they let the new president in. If some new catastrophe should occur anywhere in the world they may decide to postpone “the transition” until its appropiate time. An exciting time to be alive!!! Optimistic, -R- Ricochet says: November 9, 2008 at 6:01 PM Paul, take a look at this. In this article they aren’t even telling the complete story about how these esperiments were conducted. http://www.militaryremoteviewers.com/cia_remote_viewing_sri.htm And by the way. This is YOUR science. -Rico- Ricochet says: November 9, 2008 at 6:08 PM My point being that you don’t know what these people have gotten into. They’ve discovered many things that are not made public and they’re into many esoteric ventures. I’d also like to know how many times in the past the military has responded in numbers and equipment to remove a fallen weather balloon. Wow. It looks like all of you have a life!! No one post on sundays!! I hope you all had a great weekend. -Rico- Ricochet says: November 9, 2008 at 6:08 PM Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!! Look ma!!!! No hands!!!!! r Ricochet says: November 9, 2008 at 7:00 PM Hey Leah!! Nice to see I’m not alone 😉 I think we’re inconsequential to them. They’ll probably be surprised we’re still around and in such numbers. Depending on wether the sentiment be Enki like or Enlil like we’ll de in deep crap. Amit says: November 9, 2008 at 9:06 PM Hey Folks!! Rico, Yep, you are right , we all have a life.. PAUL – Read it again, Yes, we have a life and quite contrary to what you described in one of your posts… So, you like to lick Dzawkins huh?? Dawkins writes logically, but he writes only to support his own personal beliefs and never really engages the alternate hypothesis, as any good scientist should. If you don’t share his ideologies, the weaknesses and shortcomings in his logic become very apparent. He uses his position as a scientist, however, to add credibility to an overriding, and highly charged, personal agenda of atheism and secular humanism. By contrast, greater scientists such as Einstein and Hawking, even though they may not speak of faith in a personal God, still express a deep sense of wonder and awe for our existence. For others yet, such Von Braun, the universe itself is undeniable evidence of their God and Savior. Dawkins writings though reveal someone who thinks he has it all figured out and that anyone who doesn’t see it his way is ignorant, using terms like “cowardly flabbiness of the intellect” to describe those with other views. As noted by Richter, a man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he describes another’s. If you read Dawkins, look beyond the clever logic to the heart, character and motives of the man and there you will gain understandings into life that go far beyond the mere text of his writings Dawkins strikes out against religion, but note his target. Religion is not God, and experiencing religion is not the same as experiencing God. Religion is a human social institution and its failings do not prove or disprove the existence of God. They just demonstrate shortcomings in mankind that pervade all human institutions, from government to sports to marriage. Does Dawkins show any recognition or understanding of the spiritual experiences of knowing God that change a life to one of love and service or does he just strike out against the worst parts of religion: the ritual, hypocrisy, anger and self-righteousness? Read any one of the gospels and you’ll find that Jesus Christ strikes out against the very same things! (Matthew 23, for example) Christ, however, completes the picture with the insight that true worship of God is none of these, but instead is a relationship of love with God as a person. Use Dawkins’ logic on religion and you might as well also throw out science just because there are some scientists who fall short of the disciplines of science, abuse science to justify their own selfish agendas and similarly damage and mislead others in the process. Amit says: November 9, 2008 at 9:14 PM Paul, I’m sure you will get back with lots of “Erudite” shit from Dawkins and Co. and try to drown us all! Sorry, if i offended your sentiments about your “Guru” …. But i felt inclined to say what i think of his work, in exact terms! Amit says: November 9, 2008 at 9:49 PM Friends, The secrets are not hidden anymore. Credit to internet for spreading awareness… More and more people know about UFOs, Secret Bases, Covert Experiments etc. Earlier, some scientists had to remain in oblivion due to the “unacceptance” of their research by “Peer Reviews” and the subsequent refusal to publish their work. But now they dont need to rely on them to get their work noticed. They can dare to think “differently” and propose alternate theories.. They can defy the rotten logic and outdated theories that have been blinding people since ages… But we still have people lilke Paul, who are apparently clutching their copies of “The Selfish Gene”, “Blind Watchmaker Etc” !! And no matter how many proofs we dangle in front of their eyes, they will remain oblivious to the truth… Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 10, 2008 at 2:16 AM Just a quick overall response for the moment. Aubey Burl was my lecturerer at college and he marvelled at the standing stones not because they were raised with the aid of alien technology but that the people who raised them took the time and energy to do so. Any mention of visiting aliens, at any time, was enough to raise his ire. He spent a lifetime researching how and why and his work has pretty much become the standard at least for European stone circles. Re: Dawkins. People don’t listen to him merely because he has a PhD. Yes he rejects religion and also god/s becasue there is no need to invoke them for the existance of the universe. He more or less says that we ought to take responsibility for ourselves and our actions good and bad. Why on a thread about geophysics are we discussing Obama? Great news certainly but not the place. Amit: no I’m not at all offended by your comments about me or Dawkins. But I would be very interested in your proofs of whatever it is you’re banging on about. Just because von Daniken, Velikovosky et al have published many, many,many books on alien visitations amongst other things they haven’t provided proof. Speculation yes; misinterpretations yes. Definitive proof – no. As for aliens. Yes of course they exist. The galaxy is teeming with life both simple and complex. Can I prove itr? No but on the basis of possibility/probability then yes. Has it visited here? No. Why? Because we’re in a galactic back-water surrounded by stars that on the basis of probability don’t harbour life as they appear to be too young/hot/cold etc for intelligent life AS WE KNOW IT to have evolved. The distances are too big. It’s not a question of just popping down to the local shops it bloody huge out there. [as I’m sure your alien friends have told you.] Come on, show me the proof. Credit the internet for spreading rubbish, rumour and false hope. Amit says: November 10, 2008 at 2:41 AM Paul, i have already submitted my “proofs” in one of the earlier posts. You said that you will go through that stuff later.. Obviously, you had to say something like that, didn’t you? Because you did not have any answers to the questions i posed! If you have so much confidence in yourself and your crude bunch of jokes who call themselves “Scientists”, then go on and answer my questions! Amit says: November 10, 2008 at 2:47 AM And as for distances… Even the distance betwee the 2 corners of Earth was considered “Huge” ! But what about now, it is indeed a question of just popping down to the local shops! So, Inter-Galacic distances may be much for us, but there are civilisations out there which are far more advanced and thy possess technologies which are beyond our wildest dreams… There was a “scientist” in the begining of the 20th Century, probably one of your kind.. When Telephone was invented, he said – “All that can be invented has been invented and there can be no further inventions now” …. Would have made a wonderful exhibition of the “Foot “IN” Mouth Disease” if alive today… Just like your kind will do shortly! Leah says: November 10, 2008 at 10:18 AM Dear All, Hope you all had a good weekend, according to each your own perceptions of, good. Perspective designs the question. Dawkins questions and researches according to his perception, as do scientists in e.g. Genetics. CNV…..Redundantly copied. What nature deems redundant, it no longer makes, so these genes must have a purpose. Scientists need only change their perception very slightly, in order to ask e.g Could these genes be a record of all that has gone before, relative to that species ? An historical account of the all past generation’s experiences. For me the next question is…Is the length of a DNA sequence relative to the length of time, that a given species has been around ? If we eveolved from Apes, it means they were around before homo sapiens, therefore I would expect for an Apes DNA strand to be longer, having as a species, accumulated more experiences to record. I’m back to Just a Thoughts, thought, that some things need to be believed, to be seen. In this case, it need not be belief, per se, just a temporary shift in perception, just long enough to ask the question “What if those genes are not redundantly repeated, what if its not junk, therefore what is its function ? Leah says: November 10, 2008 at 10:24 AM Further, if there is any substance to the questions I posted, the human experiences of the past 1000 years alone, are so many and varied, (especially in the last 150 years), I wonder what the difference is between the DNA sequence of someone alive today, compared to someone who lived prior to the industrial revolution. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 10, 2008 at 3:32 AM I said I’ll go through the posts later because I’ve just arrived at work and have things to do. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 10, 2008 at 3:42 AM I have no problem with alien civilasations having the technologies way beyond our comprehension and being able to travel stellar distances probably faster than light too. But where is the evidence they’ve been here? Where are the artifacts? Big lumbering stones don’t point to star travellers. Where is the science of these beings? Cog-toothed, golden discs found by von Daniken in the south American jugle doesn’t count old boy. Perhaps you’d be good enough to give me two titles of books that show evidence that back up your frankly wild and largely discredited claims. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 10, 2008 at 3:47 AM Indeed there was a physicist in th elate 19th century who claimed that all that could be discovered in the subject had been discovered. Within 10 years Einstein wrote the Theory of Special Relativity, 20 years General Relativity and 25 years Quantum Theory had blasted everything apart and a new path was found. This is science NOT speculation. I have no doubt that humanity will find a way to travel to the stars using as yet undiscovrered tecnology. But it will be OURS not “rediscovered” mysterious stuff left by the ancients and we will be the visitors from the stars. Perhaps, maybe….. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 10, 2008 at 3:54 AM Amit. If you want me to answer your questions give me one or two at a time please. I can’t afford the time to sift what may be pertinent, valid questions from all the filler stuff you insist on adding in like quotations form the bilbe and other ancient texts. By all means have your religious belifs but keep your questions and points to me in the realm of science. I’m not qualified in, or indeed interested in religion. I see it as a distraction both to me ands to the population. Try to tease out the science from the writings of the Sumerians/Babylonians/Hebrews/Maya etc that way any scientists or those interested in science that have remained here can comment. Amit says: November 10, 2008 at 4:24 AM Paul, Check out my post put on November 5th, 2008 at 8:20 pm… There are no bible verses there.. Those are all scientific facts described in a language that you understand well….. DOnt ty to hide behind lame excuses.. And one more thing.. If you desist from the name calling that you have been doing, then i’ll be happy to do likewise.. You started to make personal affronts in your posts.. That surely doesn’t go down well with anyone, so i was bound to respond in kind.. True that our opinions differ by a long way, but that surely cannot prevent us from having a discussion in a civil manner… And if you know us better (Speaking for all my friend here), you would find out that we are not all that bad either.. We are all leading our lives happily with our wonderful families, and most of our time is consumed by our respective occupations.. The little that remains is taken up with this “research” that holds our fascination and binds us together.. Amit says: November 10, 2008 at 4:33 AM Your comment about religion also portrays that you have not been reading my posts, just skimming through them. And that in itself shows a closed mindset.. Because, if you read carefully, you will find out that i am not “religious” in the sense of the word thats generally implies. Religion was just a method used by the Learned People in early ages, to convey “Science” to laymen. Because it was beyond their understanding to grasp those advanced scientific concepts, and God was also just a term used to denote entitites who were more advanced than humans. Enuma Elish clearly describes a lot of that Science, whereas The Bible will tell you how all that got convrted to religion. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 10, 2008 at 4:46 AM As I’ve said before I have no problem with people having religious beliefs and praying to whichever gods they want – just keep them away from science-based sites. What annoys me is that people cling like children to these beliefs. That i sbeside the main point I made many posts ago – aliens technology doesn’t exist here. The ancients were quite capable of building temples, ziggurts, pyramids using their science and technology without recourse to mysterious science. Before I go any further I should say, for what it’s worth that I think some of the Babylonian and Sumerian art/carvings/building are simply awe-inspiring. Whenever I go up to London I spend a day in the British Museum and most of that in the Babylonain/Assyrian section. The winged bulls from the gateway at Khorssabad are among the most amazing things I’ve seen. The carved hunting scenes invoke a feeling of the actual hunt. And you can actually touch them. THAT is amazing actually touching these ancient monuments. Nothing mysterious. The only alien thing is the distance in time. I’ll pay my respects to them again this December. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 10, 2008 at 5:06 AM While it is undoubtedly true that the combinations of of DNA pairs runs into billions from the formula you wrote it is agreed by most/some scientists that once nature had hit on the ‘correct’ sequence it stpped and ran with what it had. The numbers you come out with are probabilities same as with the cards in a deck. Nature wouldn’t go on in a similar fashion. Why shouldn’t The Fibonaci Series be entirely natural? Why does there have to be a ‘higher’ guiding authority writing hidden messages in the spiral of a shell/leaf? And as I said previously – the Egyptian pyramids were not built 11,000 BCE. There is NO firm evidence whatsoever. There is firm evidence however for the earth coming out of the Ice Age and humanity still being hunter gatherers not monumental builders. Leah says: November 10, 2008 at 1:18 PM Dear Espumpin, Re DNA, before I forget. The 2 genes in Apes, coulde be due to their immune systems still having a use for them, but we do not. A pathogen which they still have contact with from time to time. I wonder if those genes are present in humans who live in the vacinity of wild apes, or if the comparison study was conducted using human DNA from locations where apes have not, or no longer live naturally. RE your last post. If humans constructed the ancient monuments, without any outside help or use of energy the way we use it…….what did they know that we don’t……or I respectfully suggest asking this from a slightly different perspective. “From what perspective did the ancients understand and use knowlege ?” There is however nothing to say they did not have some, all or more mechanical techno capability than us…..as over time, items made of what we call modern materials, would have long rotted away…….stone being the most durable over truly long periods of time, but not to forget that this also applies to Gold that doesn’t get exposed to certain levels of heat. What is thought to be an Atlantis Grid which includes all the great monuments, may turn out to be to do with energy production, and also provide communication (like internet) and be able to act as a shield, even possibly having to do with weather control to some degree. History repeats itself, as a variation of a theme. So what we do now, is a variation of what they did then……our monuments if you like just look different, but are no less spectacular. However they are less enduring in their construct, few of which if any would survive the elements for very long, as they are not built to last. Instant coffee construction. If they did use fossil fuel energy, or clean electricity, what evidence do we have to suppot this……by the same token, if humans became extinct now, what evedence would remain in a 1000 years’s time of our present day methods of energy production? None, other than evidence of mining….and only few examples of construction in stone. Yet, we did exist, and we produced energy, and we built…….just wouldn’t be evident. Leah becky says: November 10, 2008 at 6:51 AM good morning , dear friends… just one thought this morning…paul, i still maintain that EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE…and wonder why it is so dificult to “look outside the box”… please enjoy your next trip to the British Museam…as you stand in awe and marvel at all these wonderful relicks and artifacts, how can you not wonder if perhaps there isn’t “something more” than just what you can see or touch??? how does one just “feel the hunt” then move onto the next exhibit??? how does that work??? for me, when i am in museums of this magnitude, my mind just RUNS AMOK…there is no end the the places my mind or imagination will take me… …just thinking out loud–there really is no relevance to this–just wondering how the scientific mind works… and thank you for your kind indulgence… becky becky says: November 10, 2008 at 6:53 AM “no end TO the places”—sorry Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 10, 2008 at 7:50 AM The something more shouldn’t include giving the supernatural/aliens building the pyramids etc any credence. Why look for those types of explanation when the real one is just as fascinating? Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 10, 2008 at 7:53 AM Anyway, there will be no geo-magnetic reversal in December 2012. Neither will there be an unknown/unknowable/inexplicable event on the same day which defies understanding. Neither will the mysteries of the ancients, those hunter-gatherers remember still struggling to live in the post-glacial world, be revealed to the true believers. Leah says: November 10, 2008 at 3:37 PM The post you speak of from GJ, Espumpin is gone from my view too, along with the post from Debauch also recomending, Sheldrake as reading. GJ’s post was re that we have gold in us too, and that the Annunaki want that gold too. Also included were some Genetic research findings. Its the post where I was asked if I had ever heard of the Annunaki. We are being manipulated. E if you write to Fraser Cain, the one responsible for this site, he will have a copy of the post, and all others. Espumpin says: November 10, 2008 at 8:51 AM This is an example of why science has not given me the answers once you probe deep enough. I will copy [paste you come up with your own conclusions. Stefan Lovgren for National Geographic News August 31, 2005 Scientists have sequenced the genome of the chimpanzee and found that humans are 96 percent similar to the great ape species. “Darwin wasn’t just provocative in saying that we descend from the apes—he didn’t go far enough,” said Frans de Waal, a primate scientist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. “We are apes in every way, from our long arms and tailless bodies to our habits and temperament.” Because chimpanzees are our closest living relatives, the chimp genome is the most useful key to understanding human biology and evolution, next to the human genome itself. The breakthrough will aid scientists in their mission to learn what sets us apart from other animals. By comparing human and chimpanzee genomes, the researchers have identified several sequences of genetic code that differ between human and chimp. These sequences may hold the most promise for determining what creates human-specific traits such as speech. “If people are asking what makes us human, they’re not going to find a smoking gun [in this study],” said Evan Eichler, a genome scientist at the University of Washington in Seattle who was part of the research team. “But they’re going to find suggestions for where to look.” OK NOW READ THIS By Brandon Keim November 05, 2008 | 7:05:18 PMCategories: Genetics new comparison of chimpanzee and human genomes has offered an early but tantalizing look into what makes the two species, nearly identical at the DNA level, so different. Scientists found key differences in areas linked to cell differentiation, immune response and the synchronization of certain minerals in our Metabolism, the sum of all biochemical processes involved in life— and that could be just the beginning. “By looking at all the variations, we will get a catalog, and when we find a variation in a person with a disease, it will help us understand the function of that variation,” said study co-author Richard Redon, a geneticist at the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute. “It will help us understand better how our species emerged.” Researchers already know that humans and chimpanzees share about 98 percent of the same genes. But rather than searching for mutations, Redon’s team looked at a relatively unstudied phenomenon known as copy number variation, or CNV, in which genes are redundantly duplicated. These variations were ignored in the early days of genetics, but have recently been recognized as important: Mutations are more likely to accumulate in a given type of gene when multiple copies exist, and the simultaneous application of multiple genes can provide a functional boost. Redon’s team is the first to assemble maps of CNV similarities across both chimpanzees and humans, and then compare the maps to each other. What roles those cell differentiation and immune response variants might play isn’t yet known — but the details of the findings, said Redon, are less important than the example set by the study, published today in Genome Research. How do the apes have 2 more extra genes than us and we evoled from them, shouldn’t we by default have a greater # than those we have evoled from? Now what do I know I am ignorant here but if someone can answer me help make it clearer. Sorry for the rush or if I didn’t spell anything right or lft out some of the article but i left the links so look it up yourself. Espumpin Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 10, 2008 at 9:02 AM I’ll read it fully tomorrow as here in the UK it’s late afternoon and I’m about to leave work. It looks interesting. I’m NOT in any way against new ideas challenging scientific verities – it’s how science works. Old ideas are torn down often after fierce resistance but only after rigorous debate and many, many repeatable experiments. I’ve said elesewhere that Einstein let himself down by not embracing quantum theory so science and those who work in science are equally capable of being block-headed – it’s not just religious believers who are guilty. AND I have never claimed otherwise. Leah says: November 10, 2008 at 5:27 PM Found Debauch’s….so not gone. GJ’s I can confirm had to be after 7.50am 13th Oct, as per time and dates quoted on the thread….and 4.19pm 14th Oct, which was my reply to GJ’s post. Sorry E, I don’t have it. Espumpin says: November 10, 2008 at 11:14 AM I have another thought if I may impose, Still I am looking for some sorta brigide to these gaps.Like if we have evoled and the egyptains,mayams and countless others built the ancient wonders why are we not replicating the same. If they built such structures without the use of fossil fuel why do we only need it and would have to use fossil fuel to replicate what they had done. Why are we not all great mathmations and scientist if ppl of olde were wise without the advantages we have like internet and schools universities access to knowledge that our ancenster couldn’t shouldn’ve had but did. Have we de-evoled? am I ranting on no baseses to be ranting? Ok let me shut-pu im at work and just had to get this down cuz I hate when you have a thought and then later can’t remember where you were headed and I lose my point so much I carry a pencil sharpner for G.P. TLK 2 U later E Espumpin says: November 10, 2008 at 2:41 PM Thank you, I wish my words can come out as smoothly. But, Yes i agree. Just math and science should’ve been passed down by word of mouth or written like the Mayans the improvments in education should;ve had our kids learning Tirg. in kidergarden. Does anyone remember the post by Gj on gold in our D.N.A. all I have is a reply and the date the post is not on my thread. Can anyone repost or is it gone from all our sites which just be freaky its from “Amit Says: October 14th, 2008 at 8:43 pm Greetings to All!!! Dear G Joe, the way you connected Gold in Human DNA and Anunnaki got my head spinning… I am curious about this, can you please throw some more light upon this?? As Leah said, we have been associating Mono Atomic Gold with the Anunnaki atmosphere so far, but what you have come up with is a bit different.” Now I wish I had read this more carefully, I must admit I didn’t believe him at the time. And he never answered our questions on how he knew. But, there was a newspaper AP-heading attached to the article I would like to follow the link on now. G’night everyone. Espumpin. Leah says: November 10, 2008 at 9:46 PM Dear Amit, Add Orme/matabolic gold, to kundalini, and to silicon in bones etc, to yoga to spine. Leah Leah says: November 10, 2008 at 10:13 PM What insults sensibilities, is e.g. on the comments page a page printed as number 688 and post number 469, this was 7 hours ago. Now the same post printed on page 84. The threads re format and are edited on a regular basis. Why would GJ’s post be edited out in preference to one containing expletives, and / or abuse, when it contained no defamatory comments, or any that could be called liablous. Leah says: November 10, 2008 at 10:22 PM Amit, For info try http://www.whitepowdergold.com , their knowlege and product is good. also http://www.pureganic.com for info input. Leah Leah says: November 10, 2008 at 11:00 PM GJ, 144,000 13th Oct 9.39am. Adam Kadmon….frequencies….harmonics….. Incidently, interesting post Nov 10th 7.31 pm on the comments page. Leah says: November 10, 2008 at 11:09 PM Page 841 re my post at 10.13 pm today not 84. Leah says: November 10, 2008 at 11:33 PM Dear Martin, Some things require deduction, because the cause is not inspectable, but the effects are. E.g. A car crash on a road with no cameras, vehicles which have no tachometres, and no survivors. The approx speed, direction of travel, can still be deduced. Give it some time. All I can say is that each is more /different than they think they are. Leah Leah says: November 10, 2008 at 11:43 PM A genuine astronomical question. How often does our Solar system cross the Galactic plane. Or given our Solar Systems trajectory and speed of orbit of the galaxy, how many Earth years between Galactic Plane crossings…..or how many times do we traverse the Galactic Plane during one orbit of our Solar system around the Milky Way ? Leah says: November 10, 2008 at 11:48 PM Dear Martins, Thats like Thoth and the Atlantians if they really existed, when they went to Khem / Egypt. Leah Ricochet says: November 10, 2008 at 6:06 PM Paul, Let me ask you just one question to see if can offer a scientific explanation. How was it possible for civilization, meaning, going from hunter/gatherer to farming and animal domestication blossom overnight (scientifically speaking) in one location on earth and not in several places simultaneously? Why are there still to this day bushmen? Didn’t they evolve too? Paul, there is more than one source that tells about DNA tampering by superior beings. How does science explain all those pyramids and ziggurats all over the world like that? China? South America? Africa? How? You’re telling me what? They traveled by ship back then and decided to landscape all these places with these huge stone buildings? How do you scientifically explain that these people attributed their knowledge to some god or other? Somewhere along the line we need reconciliation on these things. You offer explanations that science has just very recently theorized was the way and means for these spectacular monuments to have been built. The problem with science Paul. Is that in the absence of data, they offer theories. When the facts are all in, the science changes. Science isn’t perfect. Never was and never will be. It simply a logical way of discovering things. When you decide what data is acceptable and which isn’t then its biased and corrupted science. Usually this is done to better accomodate a certain theory. You know when you’ll believe? When an extraterrestial vehicle lands in central park and CNN shows a live broadcast of aliens coming out wearing what looks like ancient egyptian garb. Should that occur. I would hate to be you because your total belief system will be shattered. Not only have ancient astronauts been on earth Paul. But they were here before Homo Sapiens Sapiens. I don’t know what happened to these guys or if they lef anything behind. I don’t imagine that had they left anything behind we would be privy to such information. Perhaps they would divulge it later in the future after feeding us countless sci fi movies in preparation. I don’t know, but I speculate just as the next curious person would. With much respect, -Rico- Also, you should maybe try reading the Bible with a scientific mind bearing in mind that at the time these scriptures were written the people had very limited exposure to any technology. The excavations in the near east that have taken place over the last couple of hundred years have corroborated the Biblical cities therefore the stories have historical value. This may prove interesting to you also. Save the link for another day if you like but take a look sometime. http://www.bibleorigins.net/ningishzida.html I’m not going to debate anyone that wears blinders and cannot see anything unless its right in front of him. Its silly with no peripherals. Amit says: November 10, 2008 at 8:09 PM Paul, “Nature must have stopped as soon as it hit the right DNA Combination”. Can anyone with a rational mind belive this statement?Do you think nature is so intelligent? Then why dont you see it still working towards an even improved DNA? Why haven’t we developed wings? And do you think we were lucky enough to be chosen “by chance” to be the winner of the Inter Galactic Lottery which enabled us to have evolve faster than our fellow primates?? And what do you think made nature start working on the DNA Sequence and then stop on its own? How can a scientist credit these facts to mere chance?? Baffles me! Ricochet says: November 10, 2008 at 8:21 PM Entire civilizations have vanished without a trace. If we can’t come up with a trace of a whole race of people that we know existed how can we come with remnants of ancient astronauts. Surely they would have been prudent enough to have exhausted every measure availbale to ensure they wouldn’t leave anything that could further advance our technological evolution. Although don’t get me wrong. I’m under the impression that there are objects still buried that have not been found. The irony of this whole “myth” is that mankind has actually repeated almost in exact the way the sunerians describe the atrocities these gods commited. Back in the days when the first so-called civilized nations started invading other less “civilized” countries and mixing with their women and teaching them their ways and bringing their religion. Its almost an exact duplicate of the Sumerian “myth”. Paul I know you won’t do it but I have to suggest it anyway. Read the 12th Planet by Zecharia Sitchin. He’s goes way out there with his theory but a lot of the book makes sense. Something happened back then. You can choose to believe the Hebrews later interpretation of the events ( The OT) or you can look into the later discovered Sumerian/Akkadian version. Something happened. It can be translated scientifically in which case we lean towards the ancient astrnaut theory or we choose to believe the more controversial spirit ghost metaphysical version adopted by the Hebrews when presenting their version of those events. The similarities in these godly myths in different cultures is no coincidence. You should know better than using coincidence in a scientific conversation. But don’t get me wrong. I understand your belief. You need concrete authenticated evidence before you accept it as fact. I understand. All I ask is that unless you’ve delved into the more speculative material available, you don’t discount it. Its like saying you can’t accept a theory without first hearing it. See u guys tomorrow, -R- Amit says: November 10, 2008 at 8:23 PM Dear Espumpin, Even i tried to look up that post, buts gone from my view too! Strange… I guess i remember the gist of what GiJoe said… He said that our “physical constitution” was stronger than that of the Anunnaki, which had to do something with the Gold in our DNA, and the Anunnaki wanted to imbibe that in their own system as well… There was a comment about Carbon as well… It made sense because the properties of Mono Atomic Gold and other ORME are being revealed now… It was known by the name of “Manna”.. White Powder of Gold Now read carefully Espumpin, i’m going to assemble lots of passages below, take your time, i’m sure you will be amazed by this…. The White Powder of Gold is a multitude of things. It is in essence, the Elixir of Life. It is likewise, The Philosopher’s Stone of Alchemy, the “manna” of the ancient Hebrews, and even the “What is it?” of the ancient Egyptians. In science, the white powder of gold is the ORME — i.e. gold (or any of the Precious Metals) in a monoatomic form — which can result in Superconductivity within an organic body. Just keep in mind the proverbial “small print”: i.e., first consult with the discussion in Halexandria Forums. When the white powder of gold is mixed in water, it becomes the Elixir of Life, the alchemist’s dream — also known as The Golden Tear from the Eye of Horus, or “That which issues from the mouth of the creator.” It was also called as the “spittle of God” — not the word of God, but the spittle. Others referred to it as the semen of the father in heaven. [Putting the white powder in water doesn’t result in it dissolving. Instead, it forms a gelatinous suspension, and looks very much like a vial of semen.] For the alchemists, the goal had always been to make the white powder of gold, to make “the container of the light of life.” Thereafter, if you stood in its presence, you wouldn’t age. If you partook of it, you would live for ever. It’s history goes back to Enoch, Thoth, Hermes Trisgetimus, the same man by any other name, who ascended to heaven by partaking of the white drops, and thereby avoided death. In The Egyptian Book of the Dead and the Papyrus of Ani, by Budge  — based on a papyrus from Old Kingdom Egypt — there is a curious repetition of the phrase, “What is it?” Samples from the papyrus reads, “I am purified of all imperfections. What is it? I ascend like the golden hawk of Horus. What is it? I pass by the immortals without dying. What is it? I come before my father in Heaven. What is it?” The latter question repeats itself for hundreds of times throughout the lengthy ancient document. The “What is it?” literally translates into Hebrew as “manna”. Even a modern dictionary may define manna as “What is it?”. The manna was the “bread” taken by the high priest, the Melchizedek priest. Moses told the Hebrew people at one point, “You have not kept the covenant, and so the manna is being taken from you. But it will come back in the end times. When we will be a nation of high priests, not an elect high priesthood.” The manna, the white powder of gold, is the food, the light, one takes into their body. It is the Food of the Gods. A modern day Rabbi might tell you that no one has known how to make the manna, the white powder of Gold, since the destruction of the Temple of Solomon. The technique is, supposedly, a lost art or lost knowledge. But others argue that when the high priests left the Temple (when it was destroyed), the took the secret out into the desert and organized a commune called Qumrun. There, they became the Essenes. Eventually, the white powder was used to nourish a woman named Mary, and eventually, she gave birth to a man named Jesus. Some claim that it was the white powder of gold which allowed Jesus his many gifts, including his ascension into heaven. Furthermore, Moses, while Prince of Egypt, had access to learning the process himself. Whereupon at Mount Sinai (during the Exodus), he set up his own foundry, creating the ORME to be placed inside the Ark of the Covenant. The biblical description of Moses during his time on and off the Mount provides the evidence for this view, as well as the Ark’s incredible powers of Levitation and occasional “blasts of heavenly displeasure”. On Mount Serabit (aka Mount Horeb, the biblical Mount Sinai), there exists an extraordinary archaeological discovery: A temple dedicated to the Egyptian goddess, Hathor. One can in fact surmise that Moses was well aware of an operational Egyptian temple in the Sinai, and the Sinai was thus a safe haven for his flock of departing slaves. Thereafter, the temple was lost to the world until 1904 A.D., when a group of archeologists headed by Sir W. M. Flinders Petrie found the site. According to Laurence Gardner the real find, however, was “the discovery of a metal-lurgist’s crucible and a considerable amount of pure white powder”  on Mount Serabit. Also on the premises was a mysterious substance called mfkzt, which is referenced dozens of time on wall and stelae inscriptions. Gardner subsequently gives a convincing argument that the mfkzt — beside being unpronounceable — is, in fact, the White Powder of Gold. What Petrie, et al, had found was an Egyptian laboratory of Alchemy standards. The real clincher, however, is Exodus 32:20, where Moses took the ill-fated Golden Calf, which the errant Israelites had made, “and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it.” [The emphasis on “it” is reminiscent of the Manna, the “What is it?” of the Egyptian Book of the Dead, The Papyrus of Ani.] The fact that “it” turned out to be an early form of a Kool-Aid mix for the children of Israel, is not some form of “wash-the-mouth-out-with-soap punishment, but instead was for the distinct benefit of the imbibers. They were receiving the ORME! Amit says: November 10, 2008 at 8:38 PM All of that DNA that these biomedical people can’t figure out what it’s in your body for, it’s actually there to function, it just isn’t working right now. Right now we only use 8-10 percent of our brain. What’s the other 90 percent there for? Did we evolve a brain that we don’t use? I don’t think so. It’s like at some ancient time we used that brain, and we used that DNA, and we were a different person. Well that sure sounds awfully philosophical, doesn’t it. The Bible says that at one time we were the Adam Kadmon, we were the angelic being, and we have fallen to this animalistic state. But in the Bible, it says, that the day will come when the ancient of days returns here to Earth. Who is the ancient of days? The ancient of days is the Adam Kadmon, the original man. When this man returns here and he literally can read your thoughts in your mind without you opening your mouth, how much more could you ever be judged? No more skeletons in the closet, no more hidden agendas. Everything’s known. In the Bible they call it the opening of the book of life. It’s the time that everything gets judged, everything gets revealed. Martin says: November 10, 2008 at 10:28 PM To believe or not believe, is this here the question? Martin says: November 10, 2008 at 11:17 PM Dear Ricoh, Amit Leah, can you enlighten me? You dig out all these unexplained things. But, sure I’m a bit stupid, I don’t get the point of what you are trying to say. What are you going to prove, or say with it? thanks Martin Martin says: November 10, 2008 at 11:41 PM Just imagine. 2000 years ago russian helicopter pilots landed in Rome. Giant people with helmets on. How would they then describe them, or picture them and their airplane. Take into account the description of the germanic tribe of them – huge giant people riding on horses with their feet touching the ground. They were quite scared of them 2000 years ago. 2000 years later in 2008 we find in a hidden cave in Italy the description of these helicopter pilots. Of course we would all assume that they are aliens, coming from a different starsystem. And at that time these pilots told the Romans that they were from Russia. Now we would be all looking for the planet X that is called Russia, or what? Its now tuesday 1 pm 40 minutes. here. Am I your future? Shreyaskarnad says: November 11, 2008 at 12:41 AM What will happen will happen, but we should look forward to see that we dont rape mother earth as we have done before and continuing to do the same and save environment and stop thinking about the dooms day and crap, if it is destined to happen it will but lets stop all this non sense and save mother earth from the mounting human desires which is not a good sign Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 7:54 AM Dear Paul, Thank you for the info. May I ask re the source, as I’d like to know how that conclusion was reached. Much like the calculations of a theorum. Maybe info about how far above and below the plane we travel will be included too. Leah Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 8:23 AM A small reminder. All that is in space has not been detected, and so M113 may yet be. To say it doesn’t exist, because it has not yet been detected, is to announce that, all that can exist does, and human astronomers have catalogued everything. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 1:48 AM It’s good to start the working day with a laugh. Richochet. “If we can’t come up with a trace of a whole race of people that we know existed …. ” How does that work then? If there’s no trace how do you know they existed? Oh yes, the ancients in their circling saucers told you. You lot keep on about ancient aliens who came here and there is proof. Where? Don’t tell me it’s all around us, that is no answer. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 1:54 AM Amit and Richochet keep asking me for proof of science. The onus is on you to provide me with proof that aliens exist and have visited; the original article exposed the false claims of a geo-mag reversal and the immediate response from you is to decry it spouting rubbish and scribblings from Mayan texts. You then follow that with quotations from Sumerian and biblical texts. Still no proof from you. This is a science site not a place to air your rather tired and discredited notions of aliens building pyramids and guiding the human race. If you can’t provide proof beyond Velikosky and von Daniken just shut up. Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 8:55 AM Here’s a good one. A Harvard medical team of scientists, experiment with clay mixture of montmorillonite, to see if life on earth was formed by clay. Its science, because they’re Harvard folk……but its Myth and unworthy of addressing, when written about in ancient texts. Hypochracy personified. Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 9:04 AM Dear Paul, Thank you again for the information, I’ll check it out. Re M113, I was using it as an example only, to point out that we have not discovered or named all that is out there. A fool tired of learning or is indolent, convinces themselves they know it all. True enough…..they know all that they are personally going to ever know. Leah Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 9:32 AM Dear Paul, Before I go any further, I need your ground RULES….as in… what may I address. When discussing astronomy, it seems that the following are off limits….but correct me if I’m wrong. Chemical compostion Geological composition Any historical references Tectonics Volcanology Seismology Atmospherics Meteorology Climatology Possible biological properties Any theories, scientific or otherwise. Without taking all the above, and more, into consideration, I cannot see a way forward in discussion. Leah Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 2:38 AM Ricochet. Which 12th planet would that be then? If it’s big enough to support life it should be visible to NASA/ESA etc. Or perhaps it has a cloaking device? Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 9:41 AM What is there to discuss or debate re established, and accepted facts like 2+2=4. Or that Earth orbits the Sun…..even the why has been established. If we are not here to discuss or brainstorm those things which we do not as yet understand, either fully or in part…..then what is it that we are supposed to post about ? Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 2:42 AM In the absence of data science looks for it and experiments to find it. While it does speculate it works out a theory and then performs experiments time after time. It doesn’t say there’s no evidence therefore aliens did it. Science won’t offer a definitive answer unless the weight of provable evidence suggests it. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 2:53 AM Amit/ricochet. I can’t remember who said it now but where is your documentary proof that the pyramids were built 11,000 BCE? Even taking into account the slight discrepancy in some of the texts regarding Rameses II written Egyptian records and current dating points to the first one at Saqqara around 2620 B.C. and the big three at Giza between 2589-2504 B.C. The final major one was built, I think, at Hawara around 1830B.C. Nothing like 11,000BCE/9000BC. But of course don’t let the facts standing the way of a fantasy. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 3:04 AM Leah. It takes the earth/solar system approximately 225 million years to orbit the galaxy. In that time the solar system bobs up and down across the galactic plane around 3 times per revolution. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 3:20 AM Martin. Welcome back! Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 3:28 AM Rico. Remote viewing CIA sponsored. Didn’t see anything about MIT?Stanford/Oxford/Cambridge/Brunel etc. Have to admit I didn’t go ALL the way throurgh as was pushed for time but will go back. The security agencies have always gone in for crap. You may like to know that in the 1980’s the FBI undertook a study to explode H-bombs in the past, 1952 to be precise, as a way of stopping the Soviet Union developing their own H-bomb project. The FBI spent tens of millions of dollars before realising it was unfeasible. The 1980’s eh? Too much cocaine. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 3:48 AM Espumin. Graham Clark was an archaeologist educated at Cambridge UK. Sirius B was discovered by Alvan Clark [middle name Graham]. I know all about the Dogon legends and Temple’s book the Sirius Mystery. But as Sagan replied the chances of cultural contamination are quite high. Missionaries, traders etc were wandering around Africa in their thousands in the late 19tgh early 20th centuries so it’s not impossible. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 4:00 AM Now we’ve moved on to alchemy! White powder bestowing eternal life! More coke stories. All we need now are the astrologerrs horning in on the group and all the lunatics will be here cluttering up the science pages. Oh yes, and welcome to the hippies who spout the usual nonsense about a better life if we only stopped doing what we are doing and return to some agrarian idyll that never existed. Look boyos if it wasn’t for science and technology we’d ALL still believe in Moloch/Baal/Thoth/Re and the creatures of the night and we’d be living in the mud. Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 11:01 AM In the middle of typing a post re Betelgeuse, the site rubbed it out, like so many other occasions, during the past few days. Its very fussy about subject matter. So my deduction is…..I can write what I like, so long as its approved of and permitted. Welcome to 21 century designer freedom. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 4:03 AM Nothing I’ve seen here for a while has any relation to science, astronomy, space flight or cosmology except for Leah’s query regarding galactic rotation. Can we have more of the same please otherwise don’t bother. Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 11:27 AM E our posts are monitored. Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 12:00 PM Dear Espumpin, I’m familiar with your recommendation, but listened again anyway. Would that the likes of, and Carl Sagan had lived longer, and that all would take time and trouble to listen to them. I wonder if Paul, who seems to hold Sagan in high esteem, thinks any less of him for having made the film CONTACT. I can say this to you now, welcome to some of my perspectives of the cosmos and everything. You can now begin to perceive of the comfort level I have reached, re the universe and how it functions, and that which is beyond this universe. Over specialising, as letters after my name, would have narrowed my vista of thought so much, it would have precluded and prohibited me from seeing the bigger picture, like trying to see the entire contents of a room through the key hole of a locked door. Be well, Leah. Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 12:24 PM I was laughed at, per se, when long ago I said “Space contained free floating atoms, etc etc, and so at least the regions we knew about then, were not a true vacuum”…..but thats not to say there were no regions that are true vacuums. Just not in our vicinity of space. That concept is no longer funny, as our desire to travel in space, and at greater and greater speeds, are hindered by the damage that these particles would cause to space craft…and so we must attend to the developement of shield technology before, especially manned space travel can be safely undertaken at great speeds. Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 1:02 PM Dear Espumpin, To ensure the continued belief of the masses, in both things and ways, that are not so. Leah Shreyaskarnad says: November 11, 2008 at 6:05 AM hahahahahaha thats right Paul Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 1:19 PM Dear Espumpin, Any person can choose not to react. Any person can choose what they believe. Non resistance is not acceptance by default. So if people watch the show, then when the show is over, simply continue to believe in what they choose, and go about their daily business, there is no resistance with which to justify a new round of Holy wars……like the crusades. Its about how to try to uphold the continuation of an old lie. Leah Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 6:35 AM This from Feenix posted on 5th October ’08 at 02:28. I have come across absolutely no prediction by the Maya (sic) that the World will end when the current Long Count ends. I HAVE come across directives, written in stone, about what to do on certain dates after the alleged End of the World. Most notable: Chief Pacal of Palenque wanted the 80th “Calendar Round Anniversary” (calender round = ca.52 years) of his accession celebrated in a BIG way, and to make sure nobody forgot, he had the date and instructions inscribed on a plaque: October 21st, 4772… So the Maya didn’t predict the end of the world in four years time then? Perhaps they should have got their story straight with the Sumerians first. Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 1:38 PM People should get to grips with self control. Not allow theirs emotions to dictate their verbal or physical reactions. Sudden verbal outburst, instead of considered and measured response…..or silence, just like uncontrolled physical reaction, is to play into hands that thrive by feeding off cacaphony and chaos. becky says: November 11, 2008 at 6:43 AM good morning…everyone.. just a couple quick thoughts…very quick since they must be restricted to scientific jargon–which we all know i fail miserably at… paul, there is a “science” to everything… even though it may not be your area of expertise, please do not be so quick to discard them as “bad drug trips”…DNA is basis fundametal science…with a lot of loopholes and unanswered questions–as like in your own field… i have a couple “space” questions for you: what do YOU think would necessitate the building of the SPT??? what is your “take” on HAARP??? why do you think a country (or government) would even consider NOT repairing the Hubbell telescope? and then there is the International space station, which we very seldom hear about anymore…but cost billions to build and maintain…yet we are not privy to any of the pictures or film footage shot by our astronauts (except by whistleblowers on conspiracy-theory websites) that clearly show unidentifiable “flying objects” trekking across the planes??? would love to know what you think…i understand that there are “politics” involved here…though this is NOT your basic “political science”, either… best wishes… becky says: November 11, 2008 at 6:53 AM an afterthought—does “politics” have any play whatsoever in what you can or cannot disclose? Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 6:57 AM Just flicked through some earlier posts to see if there was anything worth commenting on and came across this.Amit Says: November 3rd, 2008 at 8:22 pm Welcome Espumpin and Rico! Becky and a few others need to turn up and this new thread will surely look like “Home”… Fraser Cain, be prepared for another pag overloaded with comments! Cant help it, sorry! So that’s your game is it? Hijacking a legitimate science discussion group and fill it with blathering nonsense about alien science, making it your “Home” thus driving all the sensible respondants away. Very shabby indeed. Haven’t you and your tribe got enough space in the internet already? Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 1:58 PM The last thing I’ll comment on re the Mayan Calendar. If one uses their astronomical configuration as at the start date of their calendar, it is possible to calculate by the positions of the constellations / stars upon which date their calendar ends. Apart from the rehashing of “calendars” several times throughout history, I have yet to find an astronomer who can conclusively proove what year we are ACTUALLY in according to the positions of the contellations etc. No Astrologer either. Naomi had posted on the other thread re….It could be 2012 now. Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 2:09 PM The real tools of power these days, is WATER, FOOD, OIL, and energy in general, then MONEY. Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 2:16 PM Dear Espumpin, Tom said he’d moved to Mexico, and Bad Barts I’m sure, looks in on the thread. Everyone should make like a tree, and let the wind blow through their branches, wrather than being like a wall that the wind blows down, due to its resistivity. Leah Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 7:21 AM Well at least Just A Thought and his bunch of nutters have gone. Mind you as they’re heading for M113, which we know doesn’t exist, perhaps they’ll get lost out in space on their way to nowhere. Happy days. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 8:22 AM Virtually any astronomy book barring a beginners book will give you the basics about galactic evolution and the solar system’s position. For a more detailed explanation including formulae regarding velocity, motion etc either look for any advanced astro or technical books or go to an online site such as Cambridge Institute for Astronomy, I think, the American Institute for Astronomy, I think. Off the top of my head I’m not too sure of the exact names but they’er something like that. If in doubt google the solar systems galactic position and motion. Go to the first 2 or 3 sites otherwise you’ll end up on a site occupied by the likes of Amit and Rico and you’ll nothing factual. You could come away believing the great god Cthulu has attached strings to the sun and it’s retinue and is pulling us up and down through the galactic plane. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 8:22 AM Leah, Virtually any astronomy book barring a beginners book will give you the basics about galactic evolution and the solar system’s position. For a more detailed explanation including formulae regarding velocity, motion etc either look for any advanced astro or technical books or go to an online site such as Cambridge Institute for Astronomy, I think, the American Institute for Astronomy, I think. Off the top of my head I’m not too sure of the exact names but they’re something like that. If in doubt google the solar systems galactic position and motion. Go to the first 2 or 3 sites otherwise you’ll end up on a site occupied by the likes of Amit and Rico and you’ll nothing factual. You could come away believing the great god Cthulu has attached strings to the sun and it’s retinue and is pulling us up and down through the galactic plane. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 8:33 AM Leah, Look at curious.astro.cornell.edu/question. A really good one at biocab.org/Coplanarity_Solar_System_and_Galaxy.html http://www.astro.uu.nl Espumpin says: November 11, 2008 at 8:40 AM Well paul, I tried. You claim to want to have scientific conversations, but they are are limited to a certain type of science. We don’t have enough time to “MASTER” one subject, we had enough to master some and then become a jack of a few other trades. I gave you proof and names and links and all you could do is attack -R & Amit. Is my science not science enough for you? Any way Amit thankyou looks like you put forth some research and linked this up tightly. White Gold, Manna? Seams like I gotta break out my Bible again. Do you really think thats what Gj was trying to tell us? & why would that post, how can that post disappear? I feel like Gj posted that explanation. SPT, HAARP, Hubbell telescope, Remote viewing, Mono Atomic Gold, CNV, pole shift, The Dark Flow, The Great Attractor , Dark Matter /Energy, seed and gene vaults have all been discussed here so far and then I read from Paul Eaton-Jones Says: November 11th, 2008 at 4:03 am Nothing I’ve seen here for a while has any relation to science, astronomy, space flight or cosmology except for Leah’s query regarding galactic rotation. Can we have more of the same please otherwise don’t bother. What??? not only can we hang with you on what we now feel is a mute point, so much more than some pole shift which will be the least of which that can happen but you cannot open your mind enough to engage in a talk about Sir W. M. Flinders Petrie findings. like Becky said but maybe you have to read it again….”paul, there is a “science” to everything… even though it may not be your area of expertise, please do not be so quick to discard them as “bad drug trips”…DNA is basis fundametal science…with a lot of loopholes and unanswered questions–as like in your own field…” So when you think that we have nothing better to do than take over a website, Maybe your right. I do not apoligize for my friends and I are not close minded have much to share and unlike some ppl listen to everything without judgement and use what we feel implies and pass on to the next person only our opinion without prejudice. OKAY, I hope everyone enjoys their day off i’m off to the movies or blockbuster we’re not to sure which yet. catch everyone on the flip side. Espumpin Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 8:47 AM Leah, The M designation refers to a catalogue compiled in th e18th century by a French astronomer called Charles Messier [M]. He was primarily a comet hunter and in order for himself and others not to get confused by which might or might not have been comets he listed all the objects in the night sky that could be mistaken for faint, fuzzy comets. The list included planetary nebulae, galaxies [which weren’t at the time know to exist] e.g. M31 Andromeda galaxy, gaseous clouds [emission and reflection nebulae]. As the optics on telescopes at the time weren’t good enough to resolve faint and distant objects the list contains a confusing myriad of stuff. His original list contained 110 objects which is why anything designated M113 is rubbish. Should “Just A Thought” and his barmy army actually be extra-terrestrials and heading home neither we or they would refer to their home system/planet as M113. I’m glad you’re asking the group astronomical questions. No doubt some other astronomers will be tempted back once they know serious enquiries are being made that require serious answers. Espumpin says: November 11, 2008 at 8:57 AM Before I go, on the off subject and kinda on the gross side…. Tom Barlow. Apr 2nd 2008 at 5:00PM Filed under: Retire, Travel For those who want something special to commemorate the passing of a loved one, I commend your attention to a couple of new options for that urn full of ashes. Other than using them on icy sidewalks, that is, as a funeral home in England did recently. The first option, from LifeGem promises to take your loved one’s ashes (which are primarily carbon, at this point,) and form them into a form them into a diamond. The man-made gem is a genuine diamond, with all the sparkle and durability of the original. The price is a bit steep, though; a carat stone will set you back almost $20,000. Still, I’m sure some people would gladly pay this much to keep their spouse wrapped around their finger. Is this too morbid for anyone else? If we can turn our dead loved ones into diamonds what will the annunaki turn us into if we’re alive. And what if M113 is already catalogue and is a destination that we simply don’t have the info on yet? Okay really gotta go now, but i’m off today so “I’LL BE BACK” lol E Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 9:00 AM I’m buggered if I going to hack my way through rants about manna from heaven, alchemy etc in your or anyone else’s posts just to find a question or comment about astronomy. My principal field of interest and expertise, such as it is, lies in astronomy, cosmology [the real sort not religious creation myths] geology, primate evolution and archaeology. Hurling numbers at me about DNA pairs, splicing and the Fibonaci Series amidst a crazed, foam-flecked rant is not going to endear me to either you or the subject. While I have a slight interest in biology I certainly don’t know enough to give you definitive answers or make grandiose statements. The people here where I work who have a vast knowledge of biology, biological systems and genetics who have been good enough cast an eye over some of the claims have either snorted in derision or tell me that the respondants are deliberately twisting and mis-representing the actual facts to fit their demented theories. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 11, 2008 at 9:02 AM M113 ISN’T catalogued because Messier’s catalogue only went up to 110. Check it out on an astronomy site. Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 4:40 PM Good to her from you Just a Thought, I take it you are well, as are we. Espumpin says: November 11, 2008 at 11:02 AM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q4UYBeCt3-k The first 2mins is a much watch. Just give it 2mins out of your 24hrs. Open-mind opens doors. Espumpin says: November 11, 2008 at 11:04 AM thats crazy, but is it not what Captain A warned about that was gonna happen??? Our posts would be monitered?????? Espumpin says: November 11, 2008 at 11:42 AM Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Carl Sagan All of the books in the world contain no more information than is broadcast as video in a single large American city in a single year. Not all bits have equal value. Carl Sagan But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. Carl Sagan I’ll find others from Aubrey Burl & Dawkins,Henry Hodges a nd Clark. Good to see they were open-mnded. E. Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 7:10 PM Dear Just a Thought, Good to know you are well. D mentioned posturing. Many who do, fail to notice how easily others can capitalise on their posturing. Further, how the asking of a question is taken as an assumption that the enquirer has no knowlege of that field. Andre mentioned 2 points, probability, and carbon dating. Likewise Paul contributes. Good night, Leah Espumpin says: November 11, 2008 at 12:12 PM Never to late to learn, huh? Me I thank Paul for the new 411. As ignorant as I had been most of my life I didn’t think anything could get thru this thick-head. This is from DR. Carl Sagon Who I think i’ll be researching & reading about for a long time to come. Read this, its from “Who speak for the earth”……………… We are a way for the cosmos to know itself. We are creatures of the cosmos and always hunger to know our origins, to understand our connection with the universe. How did everything come to be? Every culture on the planet has devised its own response to the riddle posed by the universe. Every culture celebrates the cycles of life and nature. There are many different ways of being human. But, an extraterrestrial visitor examining the differences among human societies would find those differences trivial compared to the similarities. We are one species. We are star stuff harvesting star light. Our lives, our past and our future are tied to the sun, the moon and the stars. Our ancestors knew that their survival depended on understanding the heavens. They built observatories and computers to predict the changing of the seasons by the motions in the skies. We are all of us descended from astronomers. I hope this will bring me to a new level of understanding why I had so many doubts. Espumpin Leah says: November 11, 2008 at 7:22 PM To my fellow camp members…..and to Paul. It would seem that if there can be little peace in such a place as this…..it is no wonder that the human species does not share Planet Earth peacefully. If one cannot master peaceful debate, or to at least ignore one another, we are far from being able to achieve global peace. John my husband was right, if you can’t do the little tasks well, you’re not ready to attempt bigger tasks. Espumpin says: November 11, 2008 at 12:47 PM How they plan to bring about a lie. What is the Blue Beam Project? by David Openheimer It involves two things. A technologically simulated “second coming” and the reemmrgence of new “MONTAUK” type projects that have the ability to take up a whole bunch of people as in a “rapture” type of situation and whisk the whole bunch into never-never land. Ironically, portions of the holographic projections have the potential for changing the planet into oneness with God. Unfortunately, this operates on the premise that Man shall somehow become God in human form and control other Men and dictate all actions and thoughts. The calculated resistance to the new religion, the New World Order and the new “Messiah” will entail human loss on a massive scale in the ensuing “holy wars”.The “BLUE BEAM PROJECT” will pretend to be the universal fulfillment of the prophecies of old; as major an event as that which took place 2000 years ago. In principle, it will make use of the sky as a holographic projection screen for space-based laser-generating satellites (star wars). These projectors will project simultaneous images to the four corners of the planet, in every language by region. It deals with the religious aspect of the NEW WORLD ORDER. The “system” has already been tested. Holographic projections of the “CHRIST IMAGE” have already been seen in some remote desert areas. These have only been reported in tabloid papers, so they are instantly rendered moot. They can also project images of alien craft, aliens, monsters, angels – you name it. Computers will coordinate the satellites and software will run the show-and-tell. Will they show us an alien landing? Why would this really be created? Espumpin Espumpin says: November 11, 2008 at 2:09 PM On the off subject again Just a Thought & C.A. This for youse. WAKE UP AMERICA- WASHINGTON (Nov. 11) – A Republican congressman from Georgia said Monday he fears that President-elect Obama will establish a Gestapo-like security force to impose a Marxist dictatorship. “It may sound a bit crazy and off base, but the thing is, he’s the one who proposed this national security force,” Rep. Paul Broun said of Obama in an interview Monday with The Associated Press. “I’m just trying to bring attention to the fact that we may — may not, I hope not — but we may have a problem with that type of philosophy of radical socialism or Marxism.” Broun cited a July speech by Obama that has circulated on the Internet in which the then-Democratic presidential candidate called for a civilian force to take some of the national security burden off the military. “That’s exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany and it’s exactly what the Soviet Union did,” Broun said. “When he’s proposing to have a national security force that’s answering to him, that is as strong as the U.S. military, he’s showing me signs of being Marxist.” This may not be geo-astro-space/time cosmic stuff. But if we don’t pay attention a cosmic event may be the last of our worries. Leah, Your 100% right. Where is BBart & Tom? Espumpin Ricochet says: November 11, 2008 at 3:37 PM Hey Pauly, welcome back! I see that its impossible for you to govern yourself with regards to using insulting threads when you don’t agree with someone so I’ll accept you as the weakling that you are. I also see that you continue to pick and choose which questions directed at you you wish to answer. I guess you looked and science can’t explain why it was that civilization sprung up in one location on earth almost overnight. Paul this site requires no proof from anyone. We’re here because we’re interested in the subject and we all have ideas. This is what wikipidia has to say about a geomagnetic shift : The Earth’s magnetic north pole is drifting from northern Canada towards Siberia with a presently accelerating rate — 10km per year at the beginning of the 20th century, up to 40km per year in 2003. It is also unknown if this drift will continue to accelerate. So now we know. The real question should be how a SUDDEN MAJOR shift would affect us all. We all choose to read different material and we choose whats believable to us. Your science was once under the impression that the world was flat. Things change. Someday, something else will be discovered and you will say, now its true. Before it wasn’t true but now it is which is stupid in itself. It shows your lack of thought or imagination. If it isn’t something regarded as acceptable by very conservative science then its not acceptable to you I was looking at a rerun of the Brady Bunch the other day and their maid had made them all a wonderful healthy dinner which consisted of this huge steak with lotsa potatos and gravy and buttered biscuits. She said something about making sure they all got their daily portion of red meat. Oh but wait a minute. That was old science wasn’t it? Daily red meat isn’t all that good for you is it? Science changes. Science is only an explanation for whats been discovered and sometimes its wrong at that. As for lost civilizations, ever heard of the Olmecs? Ever heard of the Ubadians? Did you ever take a look at the Baalbek link I put up? No, all you did was poke fun at aliens. Its ok man. You don’t believe in God, gods, or aliens. This does not mean that they aren’t real does it? You are not the last authority on this matter. You simply have an opinion like anyone else. Theres an old saying that I’m rather fond of: Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and they all stink. I find it somewhat difficult dealing with closed minded fools like yourself whom it seems only understands insults and the like but I do this for entertanment so I’ll continue. This is a free blog to express our opinions man and if you don’t like it. YOU can STFU. Martin, if you want to know what we’re talking about look up in Google the word Anunnaki and then look up the biblical passage Genesis 6. This is what we’re talking about. Paul, why was the SPT built in antartica? there are many other more hospitable locations that would have accomplished the same end results those scientist claim to be studying. So many lies so many secrets. Paul seems to think that our Government tells us everything. It reaveals all scientific discoveries immediately so that we can all be informed. And Santas gonna bring you a brand new telescope this Xmas so that you can look at your true home, the moon, you lunatic. Tired of crap, -R- Ricochet says: November 11, 2008 at 4:02 PM When the ancient built these cities with the temples and all they had logistics to consider. There was no more hunter/gatherer existance. It was animal doestication and agriculture and watering and waste management and literature and schooling, commerce and laws. I don’t see the logic where anyone can even imagine that these insights would come to a civilization overnight. All of these things discovered at once!! At once!! Thats how science describes what happened at Sumer. Todays science cannot explain how this event occured yet Paul wants us to believe that science explains it all. Everywhere I’ve looked I can’t find an explanation. So what do I do? I look to see what the actual civilization tells us happened. Guess what they said? They said that the gods that came from above gave them the knowledge. But the scienece of today that can’t explain shit chooses not to accept what the people that were actually there have to say about it. Is it me or is this a literral retarded scientific approach? If I want to know aboout something that happened I ask someone that was there. Not a monday morning quaterback that will tell me how he would have had it done. Its stupid to argue this point with someone thats derisive such as Paul is. The good thing about all this is that its about to come to a head. The next few years will be amazing. This is and will continue to be the most exciting time to be alive. We will bear witness to amazing and spectacular events. Many will be left in wonder. Paul, dersions does not make your opinions more viable dude. It just makes you sound like the rich kids making fun of the poor. This is 2008. That attitude is understood scientifically todays as some kind of insecurity. You sure you ain’t scared? -R- Just a Thought says: November 11, 2008 at 4:37 PM P J said, “My principal field of interest and expertise, such as it is, lies in astronomy, cosmology” let us pause for a moment of silence as his attitude overwhelms us. Just a Thought says: November 11, 2008 at 4:54 PM Leah, All is well here on M113 😉 you know! P J sounds like Andre revisited. Just a Thought says: November 11, 2008 at 5:13 PM An exchange of ideas is a means of gaining another perspective not a way of ramming your beliefs up someones Espumpin says: November 11, 2008 at 6:10 PM lol, I love this site. It’s 8pm here time for nite-nite. G’nite my friends may tomorrow find us with greater insight or as Gj said…………. May your light find you. Espumpin becky says: November 11, 2008 at 6:56 PM paul–here’s an oxymoron for you— there’s a much bigger world out there than just your universe… Amit says: November 11, 2008 at 7:55 PM Hello Friends, Must say that the last few comments were very interesting… I particularly liked the questions put to Pauly by Becky and Leah… And to follow it up, Rico hit the nail in the head when he said “paul just chooses which questions he wants to answer”.. This is what i want to ay to Paul – ““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““ He is so stiff headed, let me see if these Air Waves pass through! Amit says: November 11, 2008 at 8:04 PM Just A Thought, Good to hear from you… I’m sure you would be having the time of your life reading the comliments from Pauly! Just like me and some others here! Its really great to know that some people have such good ESP or Remote Viewing Skills that they are able to tell us about our own lives ( Or the lack of it…) Amit says: November 11, 2008 at 8:22 PM I dont understand why its so hard to believe that M113 might be possible…. Maybe they are using this name so that we can relate the object to Messier’s Catalogue.. We, on Earth have no right to say that such and such body does not exist because it has not been seen or proved.. For that matter, i may start believing that Antartctica does not exist! Simply because i have not seen it.. Others may have seen it but why should i believe them?? And i found this comment from Paul quite interesting – “Hurling numbers at me about DNA pairs, splicing and the Fibonaci Series amidst a crazed, foam-flecked rant is not going to endear me to either you or the subject. While I have a slight interest in biology I certainly don’t know enough to give you definitive answers or make grandiose statements.” Look at his attitude!!! When we provide scientific facts, he says that we are hurling numbers at him! And when we quote ancient texts, he discards it as rubbish! Paul, if you think of Fibonnaci Series and DNA as “Crazed, Foam-Flecked Rant”, then i must say that i have never seen any man do more disgrace to Science than you, by calling himself a man of science!! And get this notion out of your head that i want to endear myself to you! I tried to find some shreds of civility and logic in you, but i failed miserably! And its high time that you stop acting as the “Owner” of this thread. Dot tell us to Shut Up. If you cant cope than pack up and leave, or continue your bullish monologue, i dont care! Ricochet says: November 11, 2008 at 8:48 PM Sorry Leah, I know you don’t want us to stoop down to the name calling level when we encounter one but I duon’t know…It was fun? I won’t do it again. I promise I’ll handle all the loud mouthed incredulous threads with more sensitivity in the future. I’ll leave Paul on his high horse and I won’t direct any threads at him again. I already said what I had to say on that and like my good friend says “its is what it is”, nothing you can do. have a good nite friends, -R- Amit says: November 11, 2008 at 8:55 PM Dear Espumpin, Like i said, i dont remember exactly what G Joe said.. But i am pretty sure that this is what he was referring to… And whatever research i have done after that to follow it up was presented to you.. People may find hard to stomach (No pun intended) Manna or White Gold.. But substances rich in Iridium and Rhosium (Natural ORME) have always been known to possess extra-ordinary capabilities… Grapes, Carrots, Aloe Vera.. Aloe Vera is being re-discovered these days and people are slowly realising its wonderful properties… Arthritis, Asthma, Obesity, Blood Pressure… tell me something which Aloe Vera cannot cure! And these substances still have a relatively small measure of ORME as compared to Mono Atomic Gold.. Just imagine what good it would do if there was enough faith and enough expertise available to guide people towards the correct ingestion process…. And Paul, Shut Up! Pre-emptive strike, i just knew that you would be itching to reply to this! Amit says: November 11, 2008 at 9:08 PM Rico, I admire your resolve… Because i am not sure i can make such a promise.. And you know as surely as i do that Pauly Dude is gonna be back with venegeance! Global Scamming says: November 11, 2008 at 11:39 PM When will everyone stop believing in this nonsense! This almost sounds like the 21st century version of SNAKE OIL…Global Warming! Like the old adage, If they can’t sell it to you, they will scare you into buying it! …When all else fail, manipulate the data… Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 7:49 AM Everything is relative to everything else. Its why physics etc seeks a unified theory that applies to both the Macrocosm and Microcosm. A unified theory has to explain that which is Above and that which is Below. Dear Paul, This is not a British website, all people writing here are not English, and the days of Empire are no longer. So, why insult someone who has bothered to learn English, re the spelling and reading capability. How many languages do you speak or write in ? It is a British failing to shout louder and louder at foreigners, which you have achieved in writing. There are still those that think of the whole world as being the foreigners, her in the UK. Some when abroad on holiday, consider the locals the foreigners, when in fact its the Brits that are the foreigners. Leah Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 7:56 AM In general. Men and their posturing….it is the argument and the fight that they enjoy, not the subject matter so much. Too much time and space being wasted here, and globally on self justification, and why each is right, and the other wrong, justifying why they are justifying…….and the what is gone. Dear Ricochet, Thank you……we’ll see, like the blind man said. Amit says: November 12, 2008 at 1:01 AM Global Scamming, If any data manipulation is being done, its the govt. who is doing it…. Because they are the masters of this art. Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 8:09 AM The truth about e.g. Messier’s list and M113. If further objects were to be discovered akin to those on Messier’s list of 110 in total, a new list would be created, in order to be able to differentiate, and leave Messier’s list unaltered. A different tagging system would be applied. So if there have been further discoveries the tagging would not begin with M111. Paul, does your particular field encompass in any way, The Cosmic Web, Dark Flow or Great Attractor, Dark Energy / Matter ? Not my labels…..these were the titles given by your fellow scientists. Leah Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 1:39 AM Leah. Whatever ground rules there are they certainly aren’t mine. What I’m trying to get across to the crackers here is that this is a site supposedly devoted to astronomy/cosmology/space explorationm and similar scientific subjects. Practically everything you list would come under the heading of, “let’s discuss”. As far as I’m concerned alien visitations gods of any stripe are not relevent here. Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 8:44 AM In the Sun newspaper Nov 5th, pictures of an object in the sky, and a red beam. For some, unaware of the latest laser weapons tech, its a UFO. For those that are aware, of laser, and e.g. Compressed Sound, tech…..it was a test. Me, I leave room for a couple percent doubt, because I was not there. So, not having been around the last time the poles shifted, flipped, reversed, I cannot be sure that enough data has been gathered, or whether it is a complete representation of all the conditions that were the cause. One thing that can be relied upon is change….when a pole shift or reversal next occurs, it will be different to a degree, than the last time. Had an object from space passed Earth close by, in the past, only its effects might be evident. Like a house that has burnt to the ground. The cause, being the flames are no longer visible, or inspectable, but their effect can be analysed. Never say never. It is not for man to decide what is in the cosmos. So, just because one cannot detect something to date, does not mean it won’t be detectable in future….especially re telescopes that are operating with a greater, and different range of frequencies. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 1:46 AM Leah. As I’ve said previously, I believe that alien civilisations exist somewhere, indeed everywhere, in the universe so Carl Sagan writing a book about it is no problem, why should it be? The film was ok. I belong to The Planetary Society and have sent money to the SETI Project. I see no incompatibilty between wanting to search for life out there, believing it exists and scoffing at the lunatics who say aliens built all the stone monuments during prehistory. Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 8:47 AM Dear Paul, Now I begin to understand you a little……I was born in Wales too…..Head of the Rhondda Valley. Leah Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 1:52 AM Espumpin. Not only are you unable to spell but it seems that you are unable to read properly. I agree with Sagan [not Sagon] that life exists out there but nowhere does he say that the gods primitive people worshipped were aliens who visited earth and nowhere does he say that megaliths were erected by aliens. Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 8:54 AM Dear Paul, I am aware of their astronomical nature…..I had asked whether they were included in your specific field ? I ask so that if they are not…..I won’t bring them up again. Leah Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 8:58 AM Campfire….if one wanted to know what might have been meant by M113…..now you have it by formula. Paul has kindly provided the name and list where the 3rd object on the list MAY BE what was refered to as M113. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 1:58 AM I didn’t say the Fibonaci series, DNA splicing etc were foam-flecked rants. I said that putting scientific data/ideas in with rants about ancients gods and the howling you and some others indulge in isn’t worth trawling thrrough. Once again you read only what you want to see. As for me not answering all the questions you and your ravening horde hurl at me well I haven’t the time or inclination to give the wild stuff my time. Talk to me about astronomy and I’ll resspond otherwise go and bother your gods. Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 9:18 AM Our position in the Galaxy / Space, both as Earth and as part of the Solar System, is determined by the observations of Astronomy / Cosmology. The observable positions of stars, constellations etc. Our position, determines where and when our Solar system is re the Galactic year, NOT clocks or calendars. Is this a fair description ? Amit says: November 12, 2008 at 3:38 AM Paul, Becky asked you the following questions – what do YOU think would necessitate the building of the SPT??? what is your “take” on HAARP??? why do you think a country (or government) would even consider NOT repairing the Hubbell telescope? and then there is the International space station, which we very seldom hear about anymore…but cost billions to build and maintain…yet we are not privy to any of the pictures or film footage shot by our astronauts (except by whistleblowers on conspiracy-theory websites) that clearly show unidentifiable “flying objects” trekking across the planes??? One would think that they all relate to Astronomy…… Whats your take on these? And here’s what Rico asked about SPT – “Paul, why was the SPT built in antartica? there are many other more hospitable locations that would have accomplished the same end results those scientist claim to be studying.” Do you have any answers? Please enlighten us. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 4:24 AM As I said earlier I’m trying to answer the questions as they come up unlike you. Whre’s the evidence for the pyramids being built in 11000 BCE? If you read a previous post about the construction dates perhaps you’d be prepared to comment. #I will be back later but I’m on a break. Just a Thought says: November 12, 2008 at 5:04 AM Greetings from M113, Yes Amit it is entertaining, we can be sure that there are even people who think PJ is wise and open minded but at PJs own advice I do not believe it because it has not been seen. BWT- Anyone know where I can find a blacksmith skilled at working with unattainum? My unicorn needs a new set of shoes made. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 5:08 AM To whoever. I’ve forgotten which one of it was. ‘My’ science never thought the world was flat. The Greeks, the real ancient ones with knowledge, worked out it was round. I think it was Eratosthenes or Aristotle work ‘discovered’ that. Yes geo-mag poles are wandering as htey always have and always will it’s just thatthey won’t flip and happen suddenly. See the original article at the top of the page. You and the other idiots here refuse to accept science and scientific enquiry because it doesn’t provide you with the comfort offered by religion/visiting aliens or conspiracy theories. Ooo, the government are hiding stuff from me. Of course they are but it’s not the ‘truth’ about alien visitations. If yoyu have to resort to quoting the Brady Bunch …. well I’m laughing out loud at that because if you have to go to those lengths I think reason may yet carry the day. Yes I did look at Baalbek. Big stones. So what? Stonehenge. Big stones. Moved by and erected by the inhabitants of the British Isles. Science facilities are often built in remote place away from light pollution, contamination and as far as away as possible from people like you to cut down interference [and I don’t mean from telepathy/telekenises] Check out what I said previously about aliens. They exist but no evidence they’re here or have visited. If you perceive me as the guardian of this site well thank you. If sane people don’t defend reason and rationality then you lunatics will finally have taken over the asylum. But I’m certainly not any sort of guardian as I notice one or two inhabitants of the real world are adding comments. Hurrah, we’ll beat the buggers yet. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 5:19 AM Damn. Just when you think it’s safe to put your head out back comes ‘Just A Thought’. Space ship break down on the way to M113 did it? Perhaps you’d like to give us the coordinates/constellation etc so we can wave to it in the night sky. If we ever bump into you and you crew how do we recognise you? Do you have tentacles, pseudo-pods, claws, sucking, slithering feet? We should know so we can pick you out from amongst all the other beings with tenatcles etc. Just a Thought says: November 12, 2008 at 6:07 AM PJ hails from planet ID-10-T (old but still funny) Well I’m off to snarfel the Guntack Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 6:24 AM HAARP. What’s the problem there then? Atmospheric research. Any heating caused by the apparatus isn’t too big or in fact very big. Consider the amount of heat energy hitting the ionosphere following a Coronal Mass Ejection or during normal solar activity. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 6:28 AM I see that my requests for comment on the answers I’ve supplied of the pyramid dates etc have gone unanswered. Difficult to refute the truth isn’t it boyos? Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 6:49 AM AMIT. You should try some aloe vera to cure your intellectual rigidity. Cheap shot but what the hell. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 6:51 AM OK ‘Just A Thought’. Where is M113? I think you us all that much. becky says: November 12, 2008 at 6:53 AM good morning, dear friends–paul, like it or not, you are all-inclusive!!! paul, i am truly sorry you feel like we are a bunch of cockroaches who have taken over and infested your thread…i mean no disrespect, but this “ravening horde” has become a force to be reckoned with… what one does not think of, another one will…and we support each other unconditionally…irregardless of the paths we choose to take…thoughts about a certain subject do not necessarily dictate opinion…they are ideas and understandings–sometimes misunderstandings–WITH THE HOPES OF BROADENING OUR OPINIONS… intent and perception play a huge role here… i, for one, have truly enjoyed the bantering that has taken place here…it even provided a couple really good “belly laughs” for me–and God only knows a good sense of humor is almost a prerequisite for survival…sometimes–especially me–we are very child-like in our pursuits… and i find that very refreshing…our curiosity and inquisitive natures should not be tainted by boundaries… JAT–i know where there is a unicorn ranch…it is in the disenchanted forest about an hour northeast of phoenix…i will zap you the coordinates–i will recognize you by your spirit… i do have some thoughts about project blue beam and others mentioned over the past day or so, but i will save them for another day… unconditional love and best wishes to you all… becky becky says: November 12, 2008 at 7:16 AM another afterthought–please forgive me…though we may not see eye-to-eye with paul, and though it may be difficult to do–it may not be such a bad idea to embrace him, and those who think like him…it MAY serve a GREATER purpose, for us all, a little further down the line… sorry–just thinking out loud… Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 2:40 PM Dear Raven Turcotte, I’ve been observing earthquakes and the movement of the tectonic plates daily, for years. The plates move pretty much like the bones in our skulls, which do so regulary, but when the movement is not synchronised, that is to say one bone is slightly displaced say due to an injury, it can result in headaches etc. until the bone is realigned to its correct relationship visa vie the other bones. Pressure certainly is building, but we can only hope (and possibly predict seismic events), that the rate at which this is happening does not increase too drastically nor suddenly. Leah Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 3:03 PM Dear Paul, Let me save you a little typing time, and I say this with respect. I do not need sorting out in any way, at an amateur level or otherwise. I have a self imposed rule, that if I want to truly know anything, I do the diligence, using all sources without preference, and from all Eras. The more facts and perspectives the better. What I don’t do is take isolated opinions, or facts as being the final and definitive truth. We have 2 things in common already, Wales and Cats. In order for me to better understand the precise area / areas we might discuss, please advise me, but only to the extent that does NOT compromise your position and workplace….etc Visa vie Coordinates, to determine when, by where we are in space. With a Galactic orbit of approx 225 million years, how can we be certain that the speed at which our Solar System orbits the centre of the Milky Way, remains constant throughout the entire 225 million year duration ? Further how can we be certain that nothing has influenced our orbit, causing a decrease or increase of speed, during just say the last one million years ? Leah Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 8:12 AM Leah, I’m a Welshman NOT English and English isn’t my first language. I also speak some German and a small bit of French. When I go abroad I most certainly do not shout and hector the inhabitants of the country I’m visiting. As for the Britsih empire well I’m rather glad it’s gone really. The ravening horde I mentioned isn’t a force to be reckoned with at all. I just wonder why they need to be on this site at all. Surely they have their own where they can twitter to each other and reinforce their beliefs. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 8:15 AM Rico. I started out trying not to to deride individuals just their unsubstantiated beliefs. However once the ranting started it became quite obvious that at least four of you don’t seem to want to accept science even with it’s failings and have opted for the unknown. Exploring the unknown IS how we move forward for sure but embracing myths and legends as substance is a very dangerous path to tread. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 8:20 AM Howver. Let’s pause from the back-biting and name calling for a moment, though I’m happy to return to it, and consider the original article. There will be a geo-mag pole reversal though not in 2012. There is no connection with the end of the Mayan calendar. So far so good. Now can the, ahem, doubters say why they believe it will happen then and why a catastrophe will occur in words that even I can understand. Not a big ask really. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 8:32 AM Leah. Yes the Great Attractor, the Great Wall and the rest are astronomical ojects and worthy of discussion on a site such as this. You are most definitely correct in saying that objects similar to those in the Messier catalogue have been and are being discovered. However they are not added to his catalogue. They are included in the New General Catalogue [NGC] that dates from the late 19th century, the IC catalogue, the ARP named after Halton Arp a famous American astronomer. I’m not quite sure but I imagine that as Messier’s was the first catalogue of it’s kind it’s become almost sacrocanct and stands as it is. I think the first stellar catalogue was devised by Hipparchos who gave the stars their magnitudes around 2000 years ago. Then John Flamsteed in the 17th century as the first Astronomer Royal numbered stars in the constellations that hadn’t been given names in antiquity mainly because they had been too faint too see. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 8:39 AM Becky. I have never refered to the people here as cockroaches and certainly don’t consider any of them to be. I just think they’re poor benighted people frightened of the light brought by science because it is rational and sheds the cold light of reality on their ridiculous beliefs e.g. aliens building the pyramids an dgiving the Nazis advanced knowledge during the second world war. As I asked at the time, ‘What was it?’. And it didn’t help them at all did it so it couldn’t have been much good or very advanced. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 12, 2008 at 9:37 AM Determining where you are in space can be done by refering to solar system coordinates and galactic ones. I think as clock is necessary when finding out your position in what is called Right Ascension which is the space equivalent of longitude. Again any book on astronomy or a good online source will sort you out. By all means bring up the subjects on your list. Some things I feel confident in discussing others not so. But if I don’t know I’ll say so before commenting and not try to baffle you with the scrapings from my cat’s litter tray. Over and out for now as it’s home time. Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 5:05 PM Dear Raven Turcotte, Might I enquire re your field / fields. Oceanography, Seismology, Geology, Tectonics….. Leah Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 5:11 PM Dear Just a Thought, He tought me well in such down to earth matters. Shame he’s not around anymore. However, I don’t miss what I can’t have….pointless. I miss what I have while I have it……as in really appreciate. Thanks for your thought. Leah Ricochet says: November 12, 2008 at 10:12 AM Carbon dating has already beeb proven inaccurate. The Pyramids actual date of construction is in controversy. The Greeks were not the real ancients as their knowledge also came from Sumer. This is all fact. Science went through many languages until the Sumerian cunieform language was found to have no “loan words” therefore making it the first known written language. Get it together Paul. -R- Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 5:21 PM One that studies sub-atomic physics, is an astronomist / cosmologist, who is studying a smaller and faster level / dimension of the cosmos / universe. Ricochet says: November 12, 2008 at 10:55 AM Paul just so you know. The first schools, the first laws, the first wheel, the first doctors, the first surgery, the first, agriculture, the first wheat, the first barley, the first grapes, the first metal forging. I could go on and on on this. All came fom Sumer. The first civilization came from sumer. This rather puts a crimp in the science theory of evolution. If the evolution theory were valid then should’nt have some of these discoveries occured simultaneously or almost simultaneously in other parts of the world? Its not a question Paul, don’t bother trying to answer. Just pointing something out. Some people apply Ockham’s razor when researching. Had this been done when studying the REAL ancient tablets that were discovered in the region. (30,000 tablets at Nineveh alone). Then we would be further studying ancient astronauts. Because using Ockham’s razor we simply would have looked at what the actual scribes of the times had to say as to how they acquired such advanced knowledge. This is the simplest way to do things. But no, they sent a bunch of Paul Eaton-Joness’ out there and because they couldn’t accept the obvious. They created “myths”. Notice Paul that the real myth creator is science? Again, don’t answer. The question is purely rhetorical. Quantum technogy will probably help man reach the stars. Quantum technolgy isn’t something new. Its just that man is just begining to understand this. You say that there are alien civilizations out there which is obvious. What makes you think that their civilization isn’t so much older than ours and that they’ve already mastered quantum technology long ago? Why is that impossible? You believe in other things that you cannot see. You accept them as fact. I’m sure you belive in Neutrinos yet you can’t see them. The fact that we can offer nothing that you would consider proof at this time does not mean it isn’t fact Paul. What would be the purpose of this blog at all? You can answer the question put to the blog can’t you Paul? What is there to discuss? If you go look again at the intiation of this blog you will find that 2012 is mentioned as well as planet x and other unaccepted theories. So this site has a broader more complex basis than you are giving it credit for. I don’t know of one farmer today that has erected stones on his farm to tell him when the winter soltice is or any farmer that watches the stars to determine anything about his crops. Yet science has said that this was the reason that these structures were erected. Give me a break. What I’m trying to convey is that science is not perfect. In fact when looking at science and mankind in the grand scheme of things. Its rather young. I don’t care what anyones opinion is, just like no one really cares what mine is. I’m saying right here and now that some beings whose origins were not of this earth gave men the knowledge to built and erect the structures that we found left behind all over the world. Furthermore. they gave the ancient peoples of mesoamerica the knowledge to measure time and the knowledge of the stars. The maya calendar was made in accordance with this provided knowledge and so we have a calendar thats more like a timer, a clock thats ticking if you will. Thats my story and I’m sticking to it. You can quote all the Sagan, Aubrey crap you want. I’ll stick with Sitchin, Bramley and the likes. You can call me any names you want and you can categorize me as any species of lunatic. I don’t care. I’m 49 years old and being raised in the bronx I’ve been called worse. I expect to still be around on 2012 so I’ll wait and see what happens. If nothing happens so be it. If something does happen then we’ll see what it is. Whatever. Patient, -Rico- Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 5:56 PM Dear Just a Thought, Think me petty, or dumb, but who are those who do not want to be distracted from the truth. If I don’t ask someone will….so I’ll do it. Be well as always, Leah Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 6:24 PM Might, meaning I may see a way. Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 6:27 PM Or are you refering to Dreams ? Ricochet says: November 12, 2008 at 11:39 AM By the way, some of the stones at Baalbek referred to as “just stones” by Paul weigh as much as 2000 tons. Now I don’t know how you reconcile this but today. As of November 12th, 2008, we have no machinery capable of moving these “just stones”. They were moved to their present location from some quarry 6 miles away and RAISED to be used as a kind of base stones for this huge complex. Don’t get me wrong. But if todays science can’t duplicate this feat then it’s time it moved aside and let someone with understanding of what went on in those days take a crack at it don’t you think? I’m not saying that aliens or giants or sorcery was used to accomplish this feat. Others have said it long before we were even born and science has no answer. The answer Paul provides is this “levers and ramps ‘ol boy”. Now paul you stand by yourself on this theory because science doesn’t back you. See how we all make up crap to justify our beliefs? 2000 tons, one stone, no explanation of this literally IMPOSSIBLE feat. Hmmmmm, makes you wonder don’t it? Here, take another look: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_baalbek_1.htm See the size of the man standing by these stones. Imagine how this was moved 6 miles in one piece and then raised to a platform as you can see in the picture. Paul likes to use derisve words and putdowns due to the fact that he nor the science he so fervently defends can offer a valid explanation and the fact that scientific theories have been exhausted as impossible. Truly amazing. There are wonders in this world that cannot be explained until such time as we accept what true ancient man has left us as an explanation. I will continue to post my opinion that the 2012 date is in fact the end of a 5122 or so year time calculator that counts down to an end time and a new begining. I think its arrogant for some people to think that man is the ultimate technological authority in this part of the universe and to think that because we don’t have the technology to travel the stars that there aren’t others that have accomplished this before man was even thinking about cooking his food. Arrogance to think that man is the ultimate intelligence in this part of the universe. Arrogance to think we already have all the answers when its manifestly obvious that we don’t. We don’t even know how or why our ancestors moved such huge stones to erect the most spectacular buildngs and cities that the world has ever seen to date. I haven’t even gotten to the part of the MISSING piece stones that were located in slots inside the pyramid and were removed prior to their discovery by modern man. No explanations at all. How dare anyone have the arrogance to offer an explanation bypassing the explanation that the builders themselves offered? Bear in mind that growing up science taught us that the Pyramids were pharoic tombs? What a laugh that turned out to be huh? And we still have some that actually put a date on these structures and believe that the deate is irrefutable evidence. Carbon dating. Again, what a laugh. We have some very intelligent people in our time. We even have Paul here whos is so smart he considers people like me an idiot because of what I discerned to be true in the absence of any valid explanation. Its like saying, “I don’t know what happened but because I don’t believe aliens have visited us you are just stupid”. This is what Paul says. You’re smart Paul, but you don’t know it all. Furthermore due to your lack of imagination, discernment, and chosen data imput, you are extremely limited. I may as well be debating a school book. Levers and ramps ‘ol boy, levers and ramps. You should send that theory to some science review to see if they publish it. Science has not put forth that theory. Unreal. There is a saying. There are none so blind as those that will not see. Open your eyes ‘ol boy. This world is bigger and stranger than you’ve been led to believe. -R- Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 6:44 PM Dear Just a Thought, No problemo. Leah Ricochet says: November 12, 2008 at 11:46 AM This si a copy and paste from the Baalbek site I keep referring you to: Our own science and engineering today cannot explain them, let alone what their function was. It would seem some unknown culture could move these great stones, place them on top of others, in perfect fit and alignment, before the dawn of our most ancient cultures. What caused them to pass away without leaving a clue as to who they were and to what purpose they built such a stupefying platform? Thats what science says today about Baalbek. But Paul says it was “levers and ramps” right Paul? Give us a link or rerfer us to a publication that backs your levers and ramps answer. Talk about ranting!! The only difference I see is that you add derisive remarks to your rantings. You need to read the Bible. Its a REAL history book. -R- Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 6:55 PM Dear Just a Thought, Forgive me, I must have been a lawyer in another life. One word, for me changes the meaning of content. One word is enough to make or break a contract…is it not. I’ll go to sleep, perchance to dream. Be well, Leah Leah says: November 12, 2008 at 7:09 PM Good night. Raven Turcotte says: November 12, 2008 at 1:39 PM I must say, I am very surprised at the discussions going on at this thread. I was hopeing to find like minded individuals, that can conclude or discreidit. This is about pole-reversal or shifting..right? Anyway, Thecrust under the ocean is called the oceanic crust,it is much thinner than the continental crust. It is only about 5 km thick while continental crust can be up to 65 km thick. Also, the two types of crust are not made of the same materials. Oceanic crust is made of a denser collection of minerals than continental crust. the reason I bring this up is not only for backdrop but to explain. how, ever since the tsunami greater understanding of the ocean floor and the discoveries of features like mid-oceanic ridges, geomagnetic anomalies parallel to the mid-oceanic ridges, and the association of island arcs and oceanic trenches are occurring together and near the continental margins, suggesting convection might indeed be at work. I may be getting ahead of myself. The hot asthenosphere of the Earth finds a weak place in the lithosphere to rise buoyantly as a plume, or hotspot. This asthenosphere is like liquid rock forever shifting. Hot asthenospheric mantle rises to the surface and spreads laterally, transporting oceans and continents as on a slow conveyor belt. This is happening at an accelerated rate. Greenland has cracked in half and they blame this on global warming. HA! The following plates Antarctic, Indian, Juan de Fuza, North American & Caribbean have all shifted in the last year & a half. This link..http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/ will let you see how many earthquakes have appeared over the last weak. A major earthquake will trigger a pole reversal but my friends and I believe it will occur before 2012. So all that being said and done. I would like to add my 2cents to this debate with Paul. I am a 36yr old scientist who frimly believes in the one true creator. I do not give this being a name nor do I worship and pray to any entity. So for someone with as agreat a mind as paul must have, leaving out that which cannot be explained, lets you use less than 10% than the rest of us. You cannot dismiss God just because you have no proof. The Greeks left a temple built to the unknown god, so even they knew not to discount that which “you” do not know. Yours Sincerely Raven Turcotte Ricochet says: November 12, 2008 at 3:47 PM My man Raven!! A true blue scientist!! Thank you for your input Sir. You are a scolar and a gentleman. Earthquakes, Polar shifts, meteors, asteroids, tsunamis, floods, volcanos. So many things can go wrong. I’ve read that scientist are under the impression that the earth is overdue a catastrophic event on the scale of the one that took out the dinosaurs. Maybe Mr. Turcotte can enlighten us on this subject. Now we also know that this planet didn’t start 4 or 5 thousand years ago. Its millions of years old. I dare say that time and the odds are in favor of an ancient astronaut or fallen god theory on this earth PRIOR to Homo Sapien sapiens arrival wouldn’t you? I mean, isn’t it science that says if you put, I don’t know how many monkeys together to type or write and give them unlimited time they will eventually write sheakespear or somthing to that effect? I don’t just believe like Paul that there are intelligent beings on other far away planets. I believe that we as earthlings are relatively young in existance scientifically speaking of course. I believe that given the odds we that we obviously have, more attention should be given the subject of ancient astronauts. Being as how humanity as we know it has only been around like less than a week in world time terms. It would be a good guess that there are beings that are of a MUCH MUCH older existance that have mastered quantum technology and technologies that we aren’t even aware of yet as to even name them, and that these beings visited earth before man became homo sapien sapien. How’s 432,000 years sound? The odds are that this happened. Not the other way around. Just basing the theory on a scientific guess using the amount of years that this planet has been here and taking all into account. It favors alien visitation. Not only do the odds favor alien visitation but this will also explain the origin of religion and the origin of God or gods as it may be. IT WAS LEFT TO US LITERALLY WRITTEN IN STONE !!!!!!!!!!!! I mean really. How much more plain do you want it? Haven’t you ever heard the syaing is it written in stone? What the hell did you think that meant? It just does not get any more real than that. Now, its like Leah said. There is no such thing as time. Its just the movement of the stars and such. So this calendar is based on where the stars will be at such and such time. It would stand to reason that it ends where it does because the stars wouldn’t be where they could have charted and therefore an end of an age. After it all settles down again. We can then start charting again. I don’t know whats going to happen, but it won’t involve a geomagnetic reversal. Paul you realize of course that should this blog not incude this group it would be boring as hell right? -R- Ricochet says: November 12, 2008 at 4:49 PM The first guy to post on this thread had it correct. I should have left it at that. Paul, I’m really eager to see how you answer our new scientist friend Raven Turcotte, Should I call him Dr. or Prof.? A a scientist and a believer in a supreme being he seems to have some understanding of both sides of the coin. based on what hes observe so fa he suggest that you’re missing about 95% imput in order to have better wisdom and understanding. Hmmmmmmmmmm, What do you say to that? Eager Beaver, -Rico- Just a Thought says: November 12, 2008 at 4:50 PM Becky, I love the humor, thank you! Leah, Well said, exchange of ideas. Amit, Hope you’re not getting too much of this “barncarpet” on you. R-man, Some people just know what they know and don’t want to know no more. Raven Turcotte, as Leah said the crust is indeed in motion. P J, In a previous post said “just when you think it is safe to poke your head out…”, you would have been better saying “just when you think it is safe to Pull your head out”. Really! If you are not to self improtant tell me who you imagine me to be or, where you formed your thought of how well you THINK you know me. Please. HUMANS! Raven Turcotte says: November 12, 2008 at 5:04 PM Why, thank you for your responses. Leah, you sound like you have a handle on the plates. Yes, a major headache is the best way to discribe it. I fear we are not going to be able to give the planet the “asprin” it needs & we are gonna have to ride out the migrain to come. Ricco, I am alittle skeptical of ancient astronaut or fallen god theory. I am enclined believe in visitation from more advanced lifeforms, but I have to wonder if there is not some universal law, that prehaps we don’t know about. But, a mandate that would preclude tampering with our development. I just don’t understand why they would talk to ancient man & not us. The Annunaki were said to want to mine gold from our planet. Which would explain why they would come, but not why they would leave. Also the Draconians are suppose to live under our earth as we speak. They feed off our kids and provide Goverments with weapons & knowledge. This gets into a grey area for me, sometimes it’s just better to listen and learn. All of which is a moot point if the earth reverses its poles. If there are beings out there who wish to present themselves as Gods, Saviors or masters. Then they are proberly waiting for 2012 to come, so they can swoop down and for fill their calling. If they help us rebuild our civiliations after a catastrophe, even skeptics like Paul will be asking for our info on the subject. By the way not that I was offended but it’s Mrs. Raven Turcotte. See you all later Just a Thought says: November 12, 2008 at 5:07 PM Leah, John is right. Just a Thought says: November 12, 2008 at 5:23 PM Leah, To try to convey as well as you have is beyond my grasp but I know how I feel and you put to words what I know with all my heart. (personal journey) Just a Thought says: November 12, 2008 at 5:45 PM On Blue Beam, “As for the question of why: For one thing, if you terrify the public and make them fear for their safety, they will allow you to implement draconian law enforcement practice, disarm them and keep extensive records on them, and they only have to tell you that it is all to protect you, of course.” There are those who do not want to be distracted by the truth. Just a Thought says: November 12, 2008 at 6:18 PM Pardon me Leah, you said from, perchance might you meant by? Just a Thought says: November 12, 2008 at 6:38 PM Sorry, I said distracted by the truth you said distracted from the truth. Andre would be one I consider who did not want to be distracted BY the truth. I would consider myself as one who don’t wish to be distracted FROM the truth. (told you the ability to convey as well as you was beyond my grasp) Ricochet says: November 12, 2008 at 6:46 PM Sorry, Mrs. Trucotte. My bad really. I assumed…Oh never mind, you know what I mean ;-). -R- Just a Thought says: November 12, 2008 at 7:08 PM No worries, love to share, my apologies for not being more clear. Just a Thought says: November 12, 2008 at 7:12 PM Sleep Well Ricochet says: November 12, 2008 at 7:17 PM Awwww, good night you two!! -R- Just a Thought says: November 12, 2008 at 7:21 PM Hey R man, Dude in one piece yet and some say just stones. Ricochet says: November 12, 2008 at 7:27 PM Yea u saw that huh? -R- Just a Thought says: November 12, 2008 at 7:32 PM Yes. I try almost every link posted by us just feel unable to make a worthy comment on most. Amit says: November 12, 2008 at 7:59 PM Hey Friends!!!! Your Lunatic, Ravening friend is back……. Dear Raven, liked what you posted. Welcome to the thread. we look forward to more from you… Just picking up a paragraph from your post — “I am a 36yr old scientist who frimly believes in the one true creator. I do not give this being a name nor do I worship and pray to any entity.” Well, i couldn’t agree more…. Its like my version of the “True Source” Adorote Devote Latens Deitas Amit says: November 12, 2008 at 8:05 PM Dear Rico, Just to add to your points about Baalbek.. I am working in one of the world’s biggest Engineering & Construction Company. And i have asked many experienced engineers about it.. When i asked one of them if there is any way to move a 2000 Tonne Stone through Levers and Planks? He almost went down rolling on the floor laughing! And i evicted a similar response from most of the others…. Amit says: November 12, 2008 at 8:25 PM OK, Enough of fun…… Time to get back to some serious stuff lest my friends think that PJ has affected m so much that i have gone crazy!!! Dont worry, i am way above all such Barn Capet! Just enjoying some harmless banter! OK, Ancient Astronauts.. Have a look… This is about the depiction of Spacecrafts in Ancient History… http://www.sanandaseagles.com/pages/spacecraft_in_art.html I dont know if all those Artists were bitten by the UFO Bug at different times!! Maybe there was no Paul Eaton Jones to tell them that Extraterrestrial Visitation cannot be possible! Poor folks, to be so disillusioned as to use their “imagination” to paint UFOs!!!! Ricochet says: November 12, 2008 at 8:33 PM Raven, I agree that something will occur prior to 2012. I’ve been saying that for a while now. 2012 will just be the culmination of this event. As you mentioned in an earlier post I was aware of 3 eathquakes in the last two weeks, one was right here in the northern waters of Puerto Rico and the other two were prior to that but they were in like two of those asian countries I can’t remember which and being as how there wasn’t much collateral damage I didn’t pay much attention. I know that to someone like Paul I sound like a raving maniac. I know this and I feel like some character in a movie thats witnessed a UFO and no one will believe him. Its how I feel. I tend to lend credence to my feelings. I also feel that there is something afoot. That something is going to happen soon. I’ve spoken to others about this and some people tell me they feel something to. Its like an expectation or something. Its like I’m just waiting for something, really weird and I know, really silly. Anyway, its how I feel. -R- Amit says: November 12, 2008 at 8:34 PM Paul, looks like you doubt the possession of advanced technology by the Nazis during WW2.. Well, let me enlighten you about “Die Glocke” “The Bell” (German: Die Glocke) represented something at the very pinnacle of SS General’s Hans Kammler’s occult and super-secret SS “wonder weapons” empire. Nick Cook’s book, “Hunt for Zero Point” represents the only publicly accessible information on this bizarre object in the English language, the equally macabre experimentation that surrounded it, and the stringent security the SS held it under. The following are the salient features of The Bell, according to information Cook received from both German and Czech sources: (1) The Bell was reportedly a metallic object, approximately 9 ft. in diameter and 12-15 ft. tall; (2) It looked like a “Bell”, hence its codename to the Germans, die Glocke; (3) It was comprised of two counter-rotating cylinders, rotating a purplish liquid-metallic looking substance code-named “Xerum 525” by the Germans, at high speeds; (4) “Xerum 525” was apparently highly radioactive, being purple in color, and housed in cylinders with lead lining 3 cm (12 in.) thick; (5) The Bell apparently required high amounts of electrical power in its operation; (6) During use, it could only be run for approximately one to two minutes, as it apparently gave off strong radiation and/or other electromagnetic or unknown field effects; (a) Several scientist died on its first operation; (b) Subsequent tests included various plants and animals, all of which decomposed into a blackish goo and without normal putrefaction, within a matter of a few minutes or hours after exposure to its field effects when in operation; (c) Technicians near the Bell during these experiments reported metallic tastes in their mouths after being exposed to it; (d) The chamber in which the Bell was tested was lined with ceramic bricks and rubber mats, and had to have its rubber matting removed and burned after each test, and it was subsequently washed down with brine by inmates from nearby concentration camps; (7) All the scientists and witnesses who saw or worked on the Bell were murdered by the SS as the war neared its end; 8) The Bell was transplanted out of Silesia to a destination that has never been discovered. The Bell, along with General Kammler himself, simply disappear entirely from history, never to be seen again. It is believed, however, that both the Bell and General Kammler were transported by U-boat to a base outside of the Reich (Base 211 in Neu Schwabenland, Antarctica being the strongest choice being the strongest candidate). Others suggest Norway where German troops still held that territory. (9) A strange “henge” like structure was constructed by the Germans out of reinforced concrete near the facility where the Bell was located and tested. This structure resembled a test rig for the possible test of extremely powerful propulsion devices. In charge of the Special Evacuation unit’s “northern route” cell was a very high-ranking SS general named Jakob Sporrenberg, who was captured by the British and handed over to the Poles. During interrogations, he let out his knowledge regarding some mysterious high-tech machine called “Die Glocke” – ‘the Bell’. Following his capture, as much as Sporrenberg was able to divulge to Soviet intelligence and the Polish courts about the Bell was this, Witkowski said. The project had gone under two code names: “Laternenträger” and “Chronos” and always involved “Die Glocke” – the bell-shaped object that had glowed when under test. The Bell itself was made out of a hard, heavy metal and was filled with a mercury-like substance, violet in color… The experiments always took place under a thick ceramic cover and involved the rapid spinning of two cylinders in opposite directions. The tests involved placing various plants and animals within the Bell’s influence. Almost all of them were destroyed: “A crystalline substance formed within the tissues, destroying them from the inside; liquids, including blood, gelled and separated into clearly distilled fractions.” People in the program also suffered from “sleep problems, loss of memory and balance, muscle spasms and a permanent unpleasant taste in the mouth.” Many of the scientists even died as a result of their exposure to the activated Bell. According to Sporrenberg, this enigmatic ‘Bell’ was evacuated by the Special Evacuation Kommando before the enemy forces arrived. So, what the hell was this ‘Bell’ that was so important? According to Sporrenberg, it was associated with “vortex compression” and “magnetic fields separation,” and a related source suggested that the Bell had something to do with “spin polarization” and “spin resonance.” These were, Witkowski pointed out to Cook, “physical principles that had come to be associated with the new wave of gravity and antigravity pioneers – people like Dr. Evgeny Podkletnov.” Could this be it? Was the ‘Bell’ an antigravity device? Could this be what Kammler and others used to make a deal with the United States? If the ‘Bell’ really was an operational antigravity machine, it would have certainly been spectacular enough to effectively seduce the victors of the war. Amit says: November 12, 2008 at 8:40 PM Now coming to geomagnetic Reversal. Scientists know that reversals have occurred many times in the past. The direction of magnetic grains laid down successively in the Earth’s crust, particularly the sea floor are a primary piece of evidence. When the rock is new and molten the grains are free to align themselves with the prevailing magnetic field. As the rock cools, the grains are frozen in time. As the sea floor expands outward (in the Atlantic), it is regularly striped with rock oriented in different directions. This indicates that the magnetic poles have reversed many times throughout the Earth’s history Currently the magnetic field is experiencing a period of weakening. This may be a precursor to a reversal (and we are overdue for one)… Losing its protective magnetic envelope, the atmosphere would expand and become thinner, possibly leading to altitude sickness near sea level. No longer filtered out, deadly cosmic rays would kill most if, not all, living creatures on the surface. Only those living in deep caves would be safe. This scenario has prompted some to build underground bunkers in hopes of surviving. Ricochet says: November 12, 2008 at 9:10 PM Yo amit my man. I’m going to bed dawgz. I catch up wit u guys tomorow. we all in different time zones so while most people are working I’m just starting my day. I’m one hour ahead of EST. Imagine how east I am. Rest up peoplez, -R- Raven Turcotte says: November 12, 2008 at 9:37 PM Oh, Hello everyone. Seems to be quite a bite of hostility towards P.P. (poor paul). We should all act towards each other, as we are ourselves would like to be treated. Amit, your on track but, thats not all thats effecting the magnetic feild. Anyone who has used a compass knows that magnetic north and geographic north do not exactly line up. That’s because Earth’s magnetic dipole is tilted by about 11.5 degrees from its rotational axis and shifted slightly off-center.The Mayans new this was gonna happen, They somehow calculated for this. Excuse me if at times I seem aloof, just a lot of thoughts so little time. At the north magnetic pole, the field is stronger, effectively keeping the inner proton belt farther away; at the south magnetic pole, the field is weaker, allowing the proton belt to come closer to the planet’s surface. A kinda streching motion, i’m sure most of are aware the earth is oval not round. Most of the proton belt is about 1200–1300 kilometers high, but it dips down as low as 200–300 kilometers off the lower coast of Brazil, creating a phenomenon known as the South Atlantic Anomaly. It caused the fogging of the detector windows of some of the OGO satellites and resulted in the compromising of OAO 2 data. The charged particles in the zone can also build up static charges on satellites. At certain altitudes, the South Atlantic Anomaly is bigger than Brazil itself. It is getting bigger than that by the day. There are several geologic clues to ancient climate which in turn can tell us about continental placement on the globe. Deposition of glacial sediments is one that is very useful in indicating cold climates and therefore possible pole positions. The specific things to look for are glacial scratches, varves, and tillites. Okay now i’m getting off track and have to get back to work I live In Australia where is everyone else from? WBL Yours Sincerely Raven Turcotte Amit says: November 12, 2008 at 9:56 PM Thanks for the info Raven… We are all from different corners of the world. Guess there was no one from Australia earlier,and now you fill that place very well. I am from India… About Paul, well…. You need to go up and see who started this. And some where in between, i tried for truce as well. But he is so intent on name-calling and using derisive words against us! But dont think that we are serious at all, dont go by what Paul thinks of us… We are all having good fun. Earlier we used to get affected by such people and started serious deates. Now we are used to it.. We have had more than our fair share of being called Lunatic, Rapacious, Depraved etc etc…… Leah is the angel amongst us. While the rest of us believe in a bit of Tit for Tat, she never gets bothered by this stuff and always maintains her dignity. Would take me a lot of time to reach that level! Raven Turcotte says: November 12, 2008 at 9:56 PM Alas I will not get A chance to respond today. I only can use the computer at work as for my credentials attended Charles Sturt University. I work for CSIRO, I specialize in atmospheric disturbances with N.A.S.A and other private companies & I live in Brisbane. Any other questions i’ll answer tomorrow. Yours Sincerely RavenTurcotte Amit says: November 12, 2008 at 10:02 PM About the South Atlantic Anomaly, it has worse effects than just static charge and fogging.It degrades satellite components, particularly semiconductor and optical devices.It induces background noise in detectors.It induces errors in digital circuits. It is also threat to the astronauts. The anomalous belt contains heavy nuclei (mainly oxygen, but also nitrogen and helium, and very little carbon) with energies below 50 MeV/nuc. The source of these particles are the so called “anomalous cosmic rays” of interstellar origin. ACR reaching the South Pole indicates the hazards of the weakening Magnetic Field, and everyone knows that SAA is increasing in size gradually, who knows what proportions it might reach! Amit says: November 12, 2008 at 10:20 PM Geologists and scientist have managed to identify the causes of the ice ages by observing the geological processes of the earth and connecting them all together. From the early 1800’s with Louis Agassiz and James Croll in the latter part that century to Milutin Milankovitch in the 1940’s, scientists have built on one another’s theory about the causes of the ice ages and their evidence to support it. As technology increased they discovered more about the way the earth’s processes worked and linked them all together to better understand the causes of the ice ages. Yes, the study of varves, tillites and glacial scratches is important indeed… Martin says: November 13, 2008 at 12:39 AM Amit, why do you think Einstein and a group of scientist fled to the US, because they were working on the atomic bomb and feared that it will fall into the hands of hitler! So you say the scientists like Werner von Braun, Einstein, Heissenberg, Oppenheimer and and and were all taught by aliens? That is certainly the crap of craps I have ever read. Read the biographies of these great Physicists and come back to common sense! Martin says: November 13, 2008 at 12:51 AM actually I am from Germany, but live now in Thailand for more than 13 years. Rico, the things you accredit to the Sumerians, it seems you take anything to fit your idea aboul aliens. Writings discovered before in China, most probably the oldest so far, then Mesoamerica. Do same reading before you state something as fact. You just display the typical western conceit of first world countries and Asia India, Africa china as 2nd world? China has one of the longest uninterrupted histories of this planet. Martin says: November 13, 2008 at 12:57 AM I just wonder how in 5000 years some of you would speculate about the bunkers build by the nazis in ww2 Suerly Aliens must have come to our planet and build them. And the small windows were there to compute the movements of the stars? Martin says: November 13, 2008 at 1:10 AM Sorry but I just do not believe anything. I cannot see a point in believing something nor do I see a point in disbelieving something. I do submit to logic and common sense. Aliens visiting us? Maybe. But we certainly in this case with their such advanced technolgy make them look very stupid!! Don’t you think they were clever enough to tell us the reason of their visit, their location of their homeplanet? Or do we really beliefe they are so stupid by passing on the knowledge of their existence to farmers and shepherds? This, according to their advanced technology that can travel through space, would just make no sense at all. If it were us, we surely put some information on material, that doesn’t vanish that easily, gold, platinum or even more durable, and would engrave our knowledge on these tablets. Then we would place these tablets in just one location? Or wouldn’t we put them in different places on the earth, especially mountains that will last for some times. Just because you do not really understand how and why then you create these aliens and defend your idea fighting anybody who does not believe? Sorry but all this Alien… just does not make any sense. It is simply not logical. So I do agree with Raven, just harvesting gold and then leaving our planet without trace and not coming back just makes no sense. Have a good day Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 1:11 AM Martin, My memory seems to be failing me… Because i do not remember saying that these scientists were taught by Aliens!! And as a matter of fact , apart from Einstein, i haven’t even mentioned these scientists ever… Get your facts right before jumping to such mindless conclusions…. Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 1:23 AM Martin, Before opposing something so viciously, one must take care to acquire at least an iota of knowledge about the subject being contested.. And your knowledge here is so pathetic that its ridiculous…. It would be an utter waste of time to discuss these things with you. You ask why would Aliens show their presence to Shepherds and farmers, i say they are the ones who created all the shpeherd and farmers! You ask why would they place the tab;ets in one place? Now thats so absurd, who says that the Anunnaki prepared the tablets?? They were prepared by the Sumerians… You blame us for creating Alien myths because we dont know who or why!! Well, you seem to have a fair idea then, please tell us what you believe, and on what ground… Even the Scientists you follow have followed up on the work of the Scientists preceding them, and so on.. They all have relied on History at some point of time.. You cannot refute the authenticity of Ancient Texts altogether! You seem so fond of Chinese History yourself, but what do you have to prove it? Nothing other than ancient literature i believe… So, if based on this literature, you can bang your drum about China, what reason is there to not believe in the Sumerian Texts?? Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 1:30 AM Martin, look what i was abe to dig out for you. Read carefully, it is your “Chinese Histiory” which documents “Alien Contact” in 3 different instances… 1. According to a report on China Economic Net, a story in the book entitled “In Search of the Supernatural”  by Gan Bao of the East Jin Dynasty (317 AD – 420 AD) tells of contact with Martians. In the Wu Kingdom during the Three Kingdoms Period  (222 AD – 280 AD), the ancients wrote of child possessing a strange appearance appearing among a group of playing children. He was 1.3 meters tall, dressed in blue and had shining eyes. The other children had never seen this newcomer before, so they surrounded him to ask questions. “I am not from the earth, but from the Mars,” said the child dressed in blue, “I saw that you are playing so happily so I came down to see you.” “The state of having three kingdoms standing will not last long,” the child continued. “In the future, the world will belong to the Sima family.” The Earth children were scared by this news, and one quickly ran to fetch the adults. When the adults rushed over, the Martian child bid the goodbye and immediately shrank his body and jumped into the air. When people raised their heads to watch him, they could only see a white silk cloth dragging a long belt, flying rapidly towards the sky. Nobody dared to spread the bizarre event at the time. Four years later, the Shu Kingdom perished. Another 17 years later, the Wu Kingdom also perished. When the tangled warfare among the three kingdoms was over, the Sima family united China, just as the Martian child had predicted. Regardless of whether the above record is true, it points to the possibility of ancient with aliens. 2 According to “Researching Lost Records” written by Wang Jia during the East Jin Dynasty , during the time of Emperor Yao four thousand years ago, a huge boat-shaped UFO floated in the air above the West Sea . The UFO drifted slowly and had many lights. People aboard the UFO were seen wearing hats, and had white feathers growing all over their bodies. They had no wings but could fly. “Annals on the Five-Elements” written of the Qing Dynasty, recorded another incident involving hunting an alien. The incident took place in March of the 12th year of Emperor Kangxi. Some people saw a black-faced man flying fast through the air. His body was flashing red lights, as if setting fire in the sky. When local officials heard the news and rushed over, the man suddenly disappeared. 3 “The Chronicle of Disasters and Unusual Phenomena, Draft History of the Qing Dynasty” recorded an incident very similar to modern reports of alien abduction. On July of the third Year of Emperor Yongzheng during the Qing Dynasty, a group of villagers went into the mountains to cut bamboo in Liaojiatang of Wudu in Lingchuan. The group witnessed one villager suddenly disappear. More than 140 days later, he reappeared in his home. Fellow villagers reported that upon his return, the abducted villager was completely incoherent. Documents and historical records involving aliens not only reflect the magnificence of Chinese history and culture, but also add mystical color to the long-unsolved mystery of alien beings. Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 8:37 AM Dear Paul, Do you not see links between Earthquakes, Tsunamis, Volcanoes etc etc etc ? Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 1:47 AM More food for your thoughts martin. Early Chinese texts tell of long-lived rulers from the heavens who flew in “fire-breathing dragons”. In Tibet there is a book called the Kantyua, which means “the translated word of Buddha”. It tells of flying “pearls in the sky” and of transparent spheres carrying gods to visit man. Here to, the belief is of being reborn time and time again and not just to earth. The Royal Pedigrees of Tibetan Kings dates back to the seventh century. It states that the first seven Tibetan kings came from the stars, and goes on to say that they eventually returned to the stars. Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 1:49 AM And if you’re still hungry….. The ancient Chinese records mention amazing, wise and humane (humane, not human-P.S.) beings, the” Sons of Heaven” Before the “Sons of Heaven” appeared on Earth, familiar celestial phenomena preceded all such appearances. A very ancient, pre-Buddhist religion of Tibet (“bon”) described how a mighty “Friend of virtue and kindness” had appeared on Earth Of all the “Sons of Heaven” it was Huang-ti who had left the “largest footprint” in the Chinese mythology. He first made his appearance in the Huang He River basin. Huang-ti was very different from other ancient heroes. He did not enlighten people, did not demand worship. Huang-ti and his helpers were amazingly rational beings. Of course, they did teach the natives all kinds of useful sciences, including the acupuncture. However, most important for them were their own affairs. And such affairs were dominated by the creation of complex, and alas, incomprehensible (at least, to us) apparatuses and contrivances. Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 9:01 AM Modern man in his arrogance, has convinced himself that NO prior civilisations or generations of man could possibly have been as, or more technologically advanced, than he is now. The precise and exact attitude of human youngsters, that KNOW it all, but with the passing of time, come to realise that the older generations know a thing or 10 as well. Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 9:05 AM Everything we know today has been built upon the endeavours and knowlege aquired in the past, without which we would at best be cave men. Each generation passes on knowlege to the next….so the foundation of todays technological capabilities, lies in the past. E.g. Einstein =past, Nuclear power stations =recent times and present. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 13, 2008 at 3:12 AM Jeez. I see the parental controls have been taken off some computers again. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 13, 2008 at 3:29 AM Martin. If you’re going to stay and debate you’ll have to put up with replies such as Amit has posted above. Always a small piece, usually out of context, chosen to back up their theories. Unfortunately whenever they post something of genuine scientific value worthy of discussion, and it does happen, it’s buried deep within the rantings. Amit or Rico put up something very interesting about the Fibonaci Series, DNA splicing etc but it was among a load garbage regarding aliens or some such. Pity really. But try to stick with it. The more of people like you who engage the lunatic fringe the better then maybe we can push them off a science site and back underground with the Mole Men. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 13, 2008 at 3:42 AM I believe that the latest theories regarding the onset of the Pleistocene Ice Age was due to a number of factors including the collision between N&S America which diverted the flow of water that became the Gulf Steam. This body of warm water released huge amounts of water vapour into the air causing increased precipitation at the North Pole and northern Europe. This combined with rotational axial wobble [precession] and a probable variation in the orbit of the earth around the sun i.e. it became more elliptical and less circular, all added up to a lowering in global temperature by between 5-10 degrees Celsius. Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 3:52 AM Dear Old Man PJ, Looks like your Great Grand Children have finally let you use the Computer… That was expected from you. Without reading what i said, without having any idea, you are so quick to discard everything.. But dont bother yourself, because your opinion is as worthy to me as the stuff which i flush down my toilet every morning… The thing i posted about Fibonacci Series and Spilicing does not contain a single shred of Alien Rant or whatever you insist to call that. It just signifies your close-mindedness that you are seeing even bare scientific facts as “gabage”.. I pity your state of mind and i pity your attitude even more! And whatever you may say, whichever pretext you might use to counter our claims, we will always find something to back our theories, in your own premises, just like i did with Martin’s Chinese Its you guys who need to give proofs, me and my friends ave already lined up more than you can digest. And all you can do is hide behind you “Science”, you keep ranting about Scientific Proofs, and you fail to produce any yourself! But when we talk in your language, you very conveniently choose to ignore it. How can a sane man try to argue with you?? Its only one way traffic from your side. Get any number of your kind here, and i’m sure we will always be more than match to you and your thick headed bunch of self proclaimed “Men of Science”!! Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 13, 2008 at 3:58 AM Rico. I don’t for one minute disagree with your list about what the Suerians discovered – , schools, doctors, laws etc. It’s a matter of historical and archaeological fact. I’ve said previously that I hold them ion the highest regard and love the Sumerian/Assyrian section of the British Museum. BTW, evolution isn’t a theory of the development of civilisation as you seem to think. Centre of civilisation appear to occurred at a number of places around 5000BCE. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 13, 2008 at 4:04 AM R. Turcotte. You’ll find that many of your posts regarding geophysics will be seized upon by those who are looking for a catastrophe or series of events that tie in with 2012 and geo-mag shift etc. They can’t seem to understand the slow, very slow nature of geophysical processes such as those. They see links between volcanoes, earthquakes,tsunamis and the slow wandering of the poles, auroral lights etc. Then they stitch it altogether with alien technology, visitations and top it off with a conspiracy theory. So easy for them. Bugger scientific rigour. If it’s difficult and long then forget it they want an instant fix. Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 4:08 AM PJ, i think you are quite wrong in your assumption about the Pleistocene Ice Age. Our knowledge about ice ages was not known worldwide until Louis Agassiz, a Swiss naturalist came up with a theory in 1837. He studied the characteristics of the surroundings of the Alpine Glaciers and found that there were large erratic boulders different from the surrounding rocks and too heavy to be transported by water. He also noticed that the bedrock had been polished, scratched and grooved which led him to the conclusion that a large part of Europe had been covered by ice in the past. The evidence of erratic boulders in places where they should not be, such as England, Scotland and Sweden, was due to the flowing ice sheets that carried these boulders far from their place of origin. The ice sheets carried away rock debris which is a mixture of large and small boulders, silts, sand and gravel. As the ice sheets moved, the rock debris scratched and polished the bedrock as the enormous weight of the glacier pushed against it. When the ice sheets retreated, the rock debris was deposited to form a moraine which is the unconsolidated glacial debris. After Agassiz published his theory, evidence for Ice ages appeared all over the world. Similar characteristics to the ones Agassiz found were discovered in North America, and many other countries in Europe which allowed geologist to map the extent of the glaciers. In their maximum extent, ice sheets covered a large part of Europe, North America, United Kingdom, Germany, Sweden, Norway and the whole of Canada and the north of the United States. Further observations in sedimentary deposits in lakes allowed geologists to confirm that there have been warmer and colder periods within the Ice Age. Glacial lakes contain a type of sediment called “varves”. The main feature of this sediment is that it contains a pattern of recurring, well separated layers. The varves contain a layer of with relatively coarse silty material and a layer of very fine grains. During the summer, the melted water flows through the glacier and carries part of the rock debris with it. The bigger grains sink to the bottom and the finest grains remain suspended. During winter when the lake is frozen, there is no supply for new sediments and the wind cannot move the water downstream. Therefore the fine particles slowly sink and remain on top of the coarser grained layer. When the transport melts, the ice sheets moved, the larger pebbles are dropped in amongst the fine grained sediments. The varves relate to the ice ages because the presence of relatively large stones and pebbles in the fine grained layer do not seem to fit into the composition of the layer. This indicates that the ice advanced and retreated several times and gives evidence to support glacial and interglacial periods. Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 4:12 AM PJ, Dont be so hasty to count Raven in your Hopeless Bunch. We resepect her opinion because while stating her own views, she has not bashed ours’ , and neither does she has a tendency to use derisive words and degrading comments like you. She seems to be a much more open minded person than yourself. And even if we have to argue with her, it will be done in a very civil manner.. Not everyone is like you, old man! Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 4:28 AM The record of previous glacial activity is the best indicator for future ice ages. Scientists examine the evidence for the numerous 100,000-year glacial-interglacial cycles within the present ice age to attempt a forecast of future ice ages. Since all previous ice ages lasted tens of millions of years, our present ice age will likely continue for a considerable amount of time. Each glaciation begins slowly and may take 80,000 years or more to reach its maximum extent. A rapid melting of these expanded glaciers within just a few thousand years follows. Then the next glaciation begins to build, only 10,000 to 20,000 years after the maximum of the previous glaciation occurred. Evidence from both land and sea environments indicates that, at least prior to the human-induced global warming of the last two centuries, the worldwide climate has been cooling naturally for several thousand years. Ten thousand years have already passed since the end of the last glaciation, and 18,000 years have passed since the last maximum. This may indicate that Earth has entered the beginning of the next worldwide glaciation. Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 11:33 AM Dear Paul, Correct me if I’m wrong but….you seem in agreement that our knowlege and understanding to date is due to, past data, time to postulate, sheer speculation, theorise, and develope technology from thought…..another description of imagination, and daydreaming. Even designing and testing of said imagined technology, as was Tesla’s methodology, and if you can guess, who else’s. I deliberately did not ask if your particular prefered field, is what you make a living from, as it is acedemic. It would seem that the answer to my earlier question, is ….Yes, one needs permission and to pay for a permit to THINK, and further, an even costlier permit to perform, SHEER SPECULATION, THEORISE, DEVELOPE TECHNOLOGY FROM THOUGHTS…….or to have an IMAGINATION AT ALL. Whats next, permit to be in posession of a BRAIN or MIND ? Maybe a permit for having EYES or EARS….oh thats right….a Birth Certificate….Permit to EXIST. With respect Sir, you may enquire from me, debate, and compare thoughts and notes with me…..but what you most DEFINATELY may NOT DO is DEFINE ME. Ricochet keeps a firm eye on the ancient texts. Amit keeps a firm eye on a whole slew of subjects, past and present, Becky brings observations on a philosophical level, Just a Thought brings short but piercing, usually missed signs e.g. Doppelgangers (not lost on me), Espumpin spots the signs around on several fronts…also how they relate to the big picture. Bad Bart brings the unusual. Hopefully Raven will stay and bring wisdom re atmospherics (those things which cannot be seen, but can be detected and studied visa vie their effects), amongst other subjects, about which Raven obvioulsy has extensive wisdom. BTW, not a word re spelling or grammer….whether an accidental slip of the fingure, or pressure to write quickly on your part……I have decided to believe that you can do neither, irrespective of the truth and facts. I tire of the posturing. Leah Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 12:08 PM I’ll add…..re irrespective of the truth and facts, whether known now or at any time in the future. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 13, 2008 at 5:39 AM Amit at 04:08 today. What you say is correct. There have been a number of ice ages including two, possibly three, total coverages of the planet by ice [Snow Ball Earth]. I think it was recognised quite early on after ice ages were ‘proved’ that erratics, polished and scratched ice, glacial mud/till, morraines etc were the products of immense forces that acted over long periods of time. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 13, 2008 at 5:43 AM Ice ages don’t usually last tens of millions of years. The total global one in the Pre-Cambrian possibly did but the Pleistocene only really kicked in 2 1/2 million years ago. These were typically 5-10 thousand years in extent with slightly shorter inter-glacial and inter-stadila periods. Technically speakinig we’re still in the Ice Age and probably halfway through an inter-glacial Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 13, 2008 at 5:45 AM Additional. Off the top of my head the Ordovician ice age might have lasted more than a cou[ple of million years. Once I’ve flipped through ‘Understandiing The Earth’ I’ll let you know. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 13, 2008 at 5:48 AM Where do you think I’m wrong with my account of the Pleistocene? Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 1:17 PM Time is a man made tool to coordinate their actions on Earth. All other species continue to utilise rotation and orbit around the sun as their tools of coordination. Time is Life is Time. Life is not defined by a clock. Distance exists without both speed and time, being the space between 2 or more objects. Speed exists without time, and distance, being momentum and not dependant on knowlege of, or the distance to be or being travelled. Time does not exist without speed, distance, or both. When one quotes “In 1 Hour from now” one is stating in truth “when earth has rotated on it axis X= distance divided by Y=speed + same re simultaneous orbiting of the sun.” To date, the only way speed has been perceived, is in conjunction with Time. Speed is not dependant on time when a shift in perception is adopted. Espumpin says: November 13, 2008 at 6:26 AM Wow, now a friend just E-mailed this to me… FEMA Manual Has Guidelines for Dealing with UFOs While the existence of aliens and paranormal activity is discussed seriously by fringe types and Dennis Kucinich, it doesn’t get a whole lot of validity in mainstream. Still, as they say in the Boy Scouts, it never hurts to be prepared. It turns out that firefighters’ manuals all across the country — published in 1993 and distributed by the Federal Emergency Management Agency — have an entire chapter called “Enemy Attack and UFO Potential” that spells out how you should be ready during a UFO attack. The chapter looks at the roles the local fire departments might play if aliens touched down, and depicts a “Close Encounters” situation where firefighters, “May have engine trouble on approaching the scene. Radio contact could be lost with your dispatcher …” The book even provides information on how injured aliens should be treated. While giving the Heimlich maneuver to an alien seems reasonable, we’re hoping the manual isn’t instructing America’s first responders to offer up some mouth-to-mouth. Wow, why make a manual for make believe? Ricochet says: November 13, 2008 at 7:38 AM Martin, I didn’t credit the sumerians with anything at all. Science did. Its a fact that all that I stated started in sumer first. I realize that there are a lot of pyramids in china. I wish that they allowed western scientist access to them. And paul, I didn’t say that the sumerians discovered schools and the like. I said that they established many first and that their writings attribute credit for their knowledge to their gods. If you think that I’ll leave this site because you continually condescend and resort to insults, you’re mistaken. Dude, I’m not a young boy of 16 or even 25. I’m 49 and I’ve been exposed to all kinds of people. Many like you. I don’t imagine that at work you react the way you do here when interacting with people. Blogs are great places to become puffed up and belittle others. In real life I don’t imagine you that way otherwise you wouldn’t have a job. Its cool man, we each have fantasies. In here you can be the bully you wish you were in real life. But I’ll still be here and the aliens are coming back. -R- Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 2:50 PM Many reputable scientists have proposed that in times past, the speed of Earths rotation was much faster than it is now, and have some evidence. Further that the speed of Earth’s rotation has decreased gradually over time. If in fact that was the case, I’ll use the number 10, for ease of calculation and example….if Earth’s speed of rotation was 10 times faster than now……a day then would have been the equivalent of 2 hours 24 minutes of our time (in terms of …frame of reference, 1 rotation on axis=1 day)…..but nevertheless a day it was. If the speed of Earth’s orbit around the Sun was the same as now, a year would have had 3,652:5 days…..and what seems to us now, to be a very long year….but very short 10 fold number of days. If the speed of Earth’s orbit around the Sun was also 10 times faster, they would have had what seems to us now….both very short days and years. Time is relative, and is a variable….Einstein etc etc. Ricochet says: November 13, 2008 at 7:55 AM Paul you say that other civilizations sprouted right around the time of Sumer. This is incorrect, all civilizations have their roots in Sumer. Even today, in the civilization in which we live we still use many sumerian firsts. When I asked about evolution I didn’t mean civilization evolution. It would stand to reason that the evolutionary theory would allow for aborigines living in the jungles in this age. However due to the fact that they were isolated it didn’t happen did it? Is evolution selective then? Sumer is called the “the cradle of civilization” for a reason. To give you an idea as to how old it was, when the Romans discovered the structure at Baalbek and they built on the ruins the temple of Heliopolis. The existing structure that they built upon was already ancient and Sumer was older than Babylon. This is all fact. I don’t understand how you can call these people idiots and kinuckledraggers at that. They created the first civilization. By calling me an idiot you in fact call them idiots because all I’m doing is repeating here what they left us as their history. But you know better right? -R- Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 3:00 PM An ancient text that quotes someone living to be say 1000 years old, would really be stating, 1000 complete orbits of the Sun. Without knowing the speeds of those orbits, we don’t know how much of our time that 1000 years is relative to, within our present frame of reference of 24 hours=1 day, and 365.25 days = 1 year. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 13, 2008 at 8:09 AM Rico: re Sumerians.Whether you said they discovered or established schools, lasw, doctors etc makes no difference. Thje fact that these things were first formalised there is pretty much beyond dispute. I say again, the Sumerians were a great people who did it themselves without help from aliens. Prctically every culture dedicates building to gods, ascribes natural phenomena to the gods. Even in fairly recent history here in Europe storms, extreme weather etc were laid at the foot of God simply because most people didn’t realise how nature worked. By all means believe gods helped the Sumerians and that aliens will return but don’t clog up this site with your beliefs. There must be dozens of religious, alien conatct site sfor you to join. You’re not going to find converts here. Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 3:41 PM Dear Raven Turcotte, Yes……..just yesterday I was attending to Calderas, supervolcanoes etc. Is there one that consists of 12, that makes up the whole caldera ? Dumb question….humour me, please. Such an eruption is simultaneoulsy the effect of 1 or more lets say influences, which in turn becomes a cause in its own right. Leah Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 3:54 PM For those interested in the discrepancies and inconsistancies with History and how it has been presented in the past, Gary Kasparov and other researches have much heavy, but worthwhile input. http://www.new-tradition.org Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 4:10 PM Dear All, To admit, that there are those events and things which are NOT within the control of the Human race, in spite of its best efforts to understand in depth enough to gain control of through its technology, and to NOT speak of it, due to the panic it would cause, is a wise thing. E.g. An unpublisised incoming Asteroid that humanity has not found a way to deflect or blow appart etc etc, and therefore the impact cannot be influenced or stopped, is better left unpublisised. If it were to be common knowlege….sadly there is a small percentage of people world wide, but enough in numbers, whos subsequent behaviour would make humanities remaining days a dangerous living hell on Earth. Looting, violence with and without weapons, acts of cruelty etc, as their self centred bitterness is unleashed in the light of a devastating truth. Asteroid can be substituted by any prefered reference, but the scenario is the same. Just the mention of food shortage has resulted in riots, and other acts, that by the way did not result in the aquisition of food in the desired quantities. Beware unleashing a Tigre, that once freed cannot be caged again. Leah Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 13, 2008 at 9:12 AM Leah. Yes I do see the link between earthquakes, volcanoes and tsunamis. I’m not disputing that. I am disputing that the first two can be predicted with any accuracy as to when they will occur. Where they will occur isn’t a problem. Geologists know that a ‘quake will occur in northern Turkey and very recent tpredictions say that quakes seem to be creeping along the fault in sequence each one adding strain to the sticking point further west that could end with a very severe ‘quake hitting Istanbul in the future [known as a cascade event]. But when this might happen they can’t say can’t. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 13, 2008 at 9:29 AM Leah. I think it is a pretty safe bet that no civilisation in the past WAS as successful technologically as we are. That they were as intelligent as we are is not in doubt. It is quite obvious they were as can be gleaned from writngs about laws, the existance of gods[by that I mean they speculated about life after death, being different to themselves etc] which indicate a sophisticated intellect. One of the reasons we have a highly technological society today is the amount of free time we have to develop technology from thoughts, theories an dsheer speculation. The fight for daily survival in the west has now passed most of us by leaving time for contemplation. Until recently, the past 200 years or so, man’s day consisted of tending livestock, tending and harvesting fields, working six and a half days in factories. The Industrial Revolution started the change physically. The Renaisance had changed things mentally and intrellectually. The accelerating pace of change in the mid-late 19th century was mirrored by scientific advances in chemistry and medicine. Mass production brought huge benefits to the masses giving them a levgel of comfort and disposable goods that were unheard of a generation before. Wider education gave the working classes opportunities that had only been available to the upper and middle classes. I have no doubt that had the Sumerians/Egyptians etc not had to toil as hard as they did and more importantly been free they might have developed further as they were just as clever as we are. They are essentially the same people as were are – Homo sapiens sapiens. It’s been a long time historically since the inhabitants of the planet have been physically and intellectually different from us. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 13, 2008 at 9:34 AM Rico. At no time have I called the Sumerians idiots and knuckledraggers. Those comments were directed towards you, Amit, Just A Thought and some other nitwit who were ranting about ancient alien visitations, hidden knowledge known only to a few and similar rubbish. Your postings seem to imply that you have access to it. Why not go on television and share it with us? But then of course it wouldn’t yours any longer would it? Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 13, 2008 at 9:39 AM Following a recent trip to my local library I contacted the head librarian and asked her to re-classify books by von Daniken, Velikovsky and the like. I told her they should be removed from the astronomy section and placed in the fiction/fantasy section. Ideally they should be put in the rubbish bin but I thought that they should be kept so people might be aware of such scrawlings. She replied by email today saying that after a meeting and a read through a couple of them the library had agreed. Result! Darkness hasn’t descended and we’ll push the buggers back into their caves yet. Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 5:16 PM Having read Espumpins last recommendation…..It would seem, that hormone production defficiency is a problem for some entities. To freak out, panic, get over emotional, stressed, or in particular fearful and the fight or flight condition, which floods the metabolism with ADRENALIN, would result in an increased level of hormone production, in that person. I couldn’t possibly comment…..but does a lack of self control not play straight into the hands of these entities ? Would a lack of self control not give them exactly what they want ? Espumpin says: November 13, 2008 at 10:19 AM This is coming from all angles, Have to pass this along. Saturn Dazzles With Mysterious LightSpace.com posted: 1 HOUR 1 MINUTE AGOcomments: 31filed under: Science News (Nov. 12) — An inexplicable new broad region of auroral light has been photographed at Saturn’s polar cap. We’ve never seen an aurora like this elsewhere,” said Tom Stallard, an RCUK Academic Fellow working with Cassini data at the University of Leicester. “It’s not just a ring of aurorae like those we’ve seen at Jupiter or Earth. This one covers an enormous area across the pole. Our current ideas on what forms Saturn’s aurorae predict that this region should be empty, so finding such a bright one here is a fantastic surprise.” These colorful atmospheric light shows are caused when charged particles stream along the magnetic field of a planet and into its atmosphere. On Earth the charged particles come from the solar wind – a stream of particles that emanates from the sun. Skywatchers at high latitudes know the resulting displays as the Northern Lights. Jupiter’s main auroral ring, caused by interactions internal to Jupiter’s magnetic environment, is constant in size. Saturn’s main aurora, which is caused by the solar wind, changes size dramatically as the wind varies. The newly observed aurora at Saturn, however, doesn’t fit into either category. “Saturn’s unique auroral features are telling us there is something special and unforeseen about this planet’s magnetosphere and the way it interacts with the solar wind and the planet’s atmosphere,” said Nick Achilleos, a scientist on the Cassini magnetometer team at the University College London. “Trying to explain its origin will no doubt lead us to physics which uniquely operates in the environment of Saturn.” The new image, in infrared, was imaged by the Cassini spacecraft. It is reported in the Nov. 13 issue of the journal Nature. Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 5:29 PM Further, If there were such contracts, and if in retrospect the desire to get out of those contracts, I dare say that a mind or minds, that think in unusual ways, would be able to find the chink in the contract, in order to do so. Possibly even in the armour. Just observing. Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 7:48 PM Dear Just a Thought, I’m turning into that litigator, by necessity. Be well, Leah Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 7:55 PM Dear Ricochet, Thank goodness for humour….could be one of our best weapons / tools. Your copyright of coarse. Goodnight. Leah Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 8:24 PM Re the site Espumpin recommended….its possible that something was lost in translation re Aztecs etc…..maybe they had to sacrifice many of their number. Also, with so many other powerful ones, who are benevolent, how can the one race be more powerful than them collectively…..or is it that they are waiting for something…timing can be everything. As was written by someone, they are not what they seem, will anounce their presence, which will produce cacaphony, which serves their pupose, as the more we react the better, as there is something which is extremely difficult for them to do for themselves. Further that they can no longer allow us to carry on the way we are going, lest we destroy ourselves and Earth. BUT THEY WANT CACAPHONY, which is DISCHORD. Seems to me, if they are here, they are primitive and naive…..except for their technology. Just an observation. Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 8:29 PM Dear Amit, I’m honoured by your kindnesses. Appologies if I disappointed you, but you know Some Angels Don’t Play Haarps…..piano for me, and as you’ve noticed….have a couple of teeth left. More of a Sleeping Dragon really……benevolent though. Leah Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 8:30 PM Dear Amit, If you lay around with what I wrote re Time being relative, you can begin to see how it applies to some of the ancient texts. Leah Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 8:32 PM Raven Turcotte is right. Everybody play nice, or ignore eachother. Takes 2 to tango. Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 8:51 PM Dear Just a Thought, Me again, the dense one…..what had you asked more than once ? BTW, I had a good laugh at my suggestion that Amit….you should LAY with the numbers…..had a picture in my head of someone rolling around on the floor in numbers. Bet Einstein did that once or twice in frustration. Leah Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 9:13 PM Dear Just a Thought, Wow I’ve been Knighted. The answers are there, but too much too fast is a killer…or produces cacaphony. However tick tock…tick tock. Vous are worthy. I haven’t slept in 40 hours, but in the mood for humour, as its been a hell of a day, but good in the end. So i’ll try to sleep per chance to dream….. Be well, Leah Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 9:17 PM Dear Amit, Sounds like my life….eat when hungry….sleep when it comes. I’ll take a look, just can’t promise when. Just a Thought, Honestly, I’m not lethal. Last 2 days were about the life and wellbeing of an animal. Leah Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 9:24 PM Recommendation……Re additional input of late, respectfully suggest reading E’s suggested site (if not already read), then D and company’s posts, then Thoth – Emerald Ta#lets. A different perspective may be gained. Leah says: November 13, 2008 at 9:34 PM Amit, Sounds like good reading…especially as a brain break…you know, get off planet….and if not…into the planet. I’m old as you know, so Arthur C Clarke, Greg Bear, Clive Barker, etc etc. Clarke’s Childhood’s End, its short, is a must read, especially in these times. I spend a huge amount of time keeping up with tech and the way of things, +++. Thanks to the internet, research goes somewhat faster. Can’t replace the books though. Leah RavenTurcotte says: November 13, 2008 at 3:18 PM Morning all, For some reason I couldn’t wait to see the responses. I want to explain that in my line of work it’s sometimes better to not own a P.C. or laptop, so as to not give “them” a reason to investigate you. Not that I have anything to hide, just i’ve seen how they’ve treated others under investigation. Thank you all for welcoming me into the fold, only a few choice of us whisper in corners some of the things discussed here. Anyway, I am honored to be welcomed but the bickering with Paul must stop. Agree to disagree gentlemen, or Asses is all you make of yourselves. Be the bigger man and stop this is not helping in finding the solution. Now getting into why we are here, scientists have uncovered evidence from around the world that the early Dark Ages may have been triggered by an actual event that occurred around 535 A.D. Have you ever heard of a science writer named David Keys? He believes that the cause was a natural phenomenon of cataclysmic proportions. Alot of us agree with him here. We believe the world came to an end in 535 AD. Say what? They didn’t teach about this in High School, unless one is very young lol. They did teach that the Dark Ages started about then, right?. The Dark Ages weren’t limited to Europe you know, all over the world civilisations went into decline. More importantly, the Dark Ages weren’t caused by invading barbarians or some other human caused calamity, something else truly terrible happened that sent the whole planet into a tailspin. We can track back atmospherics conditions like the Mayans tracked the stars. Everything is in a pattern, just like history & we all know history repeats itself. And the greatest secret of history, what you were never taught at school or college, is that our planet had a global catastrophe in living memory, in 535 AD. You won’t find this information elsewhere on the internet either. Something happened which caused the light of the sun to be dimmed greatly around the globe for 18 months. During this time, many trees did not grow at all. This event was followed by 30 years of unprecedented droughts and some flooding. This caused the death of a vast percentage of the population through starvation and disease. Now I must sound like a lunatic, but we have been tracking a fault line that is ready to set the volcanic arcs ablaze & we are not permitted to tell anyone. Our research used a seismic imaging technique (reflection seismology) to detect layered structures within the mantle wedge of the Tonga, Which by the way is in the subduction zone in the southwestern Pacific. Analyzing data from deep earthquakes that occurred beneath the subduction zone, we looked for seismic waves that traveled upward into the mantle wedge,until they reflected from the underside of layers within the mantle, and were recorded by seismic sensors in distant locations. We were stunned to find many reflecting boundaries in the mantle wedge above the sinking slab, and these are laterally extensive throughout the wedge region. This is surprising because the textbook version of mantle wedges suggests that there would be little structure. We have been told in secret that soon the internet, you-tube really will be monitered and shut down. This is a friends lab top i’m using. Last night I used the one at the job but we have agreed not to do that anymore, this information must be spread some how someway. Again excuse me for jumpimg from subject to subject but time is of the essence. It is likely that the cause of this catastrophe was the eruption of the super volcano Krakatoa. (Note: The terms “Super volcano” is used for a volcano with hundreds of times the power of any that we have visually recorded in the past few hundred years. Use the term “super volcano” also for further research Sept. 12,1883, Java & David Keys). We now have two super volcanoes showing signs of getting ready to erupt. Each is bigger than Krakatoa. One is in Naples Italy and the other in Yellowstone USA. The Powers That Be know all this and are keeping this knowledge to themselves. That is probably one reason why they have so many DUMBS (Deep Underground Military Bases). They are planning to turn this knowledge to their own advantage to take control of us. However, with the knowledge of what may come in our life time, you can prepare so that you and your family are not affected. This reminds me of the end times you hear about, the U.S. elects someone the “whole world trust”? Okay, I gotta go i’ll use this site but i’ll be hit an miss. It takes so long reading everyones bloggs before posting I feel like theres something else I wanted to say. Yours Sincerely RavenTurcotte Espumpin says: November 13, 2008 at 3:35 PM Just a Thought, This ones for you. http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/article.asp?ID=4744 Very scary stuff, Whoa did anyone one read Ravens just now. Deep s**t……, Hopefully we’ll all be around tomorrow, tomorrow they’ll be sun…sure right. Espumpin. Espumpin says: November 13, 2008 at 3:49 PM Leah, Thanks I like the veiw you gave of me please here is part of the web-site I put the link to interstering stuff…… On May 20 I personally received information from a former member of the NSA (National security agency) through a third party. I wish to protect this man’s identity and so I will call him ‘G’. This is the first time this information is being made public. G was subcontracted by the NSA in the late 1980’s and worked for the NSA until 1992. He was a senior electrical engineer in the Los Alamos underground base in New Mexico. G also worked at the Alamo Gordo DUMB in New Mexico and an underground base in Hawaii. He said the Los Alamos base goes two miles underground and is the size of a small city. Whilst there he witnessed rows of caged humans, tall grey aliens and a reptilian alien. G says the NSA was very hard on all subcontractors and people were worked very hard under severe conditions. According to G the US federal government, the USAF and the DOE (department of energy) run the Hawaii DUMB he worked at. This base goes down two miles and stretches out into the Pacific Ocean. It was here that three very tall and muscular ‘Nordic’ looking men (who according to G were reptilian/human hybrids because their eyes would ‘shift’ into having vertical slits for pupils) chased him along the motorway there and threatened to kill him because he had overheard them talking about some piece of high technology. Understandably G has been emotionally scarred from these experiences and does not like talking to people about them. I was also told on May 23 from this source that in June there would be a huge amount of HAARP engineered earthquakes on the west coast of America and that the DUMBS there had already been evacuated and shut down. This was one hundred percent accurate because between the 21 and 28 of June there were at least 400 earthquakes on the West Coast of America. I posted all this information on the God like productions forum on the net and within hours the post was hacked into and removed. By executive order the NSA is exempt from all laws which do not specifically name the NSA in the text of the law. Which basically means they can do whatever they want and are answerable to no one. This is because of its interaction with extra-terrestrial species and its twisted view that the people are children and cannot handle the truth. There is currently an internal war raging in the global intelligence community regarding the alien agenda. This is between negative and positive factions. From my understanding one of the main negative factions is a group centred around MI6 and the CIA called ‘Aquarius‘. This group is covering up the truth, blatantly lying and discrediting or murdering anyone who gets too close to exposing what is going on. There is also a positive group centred around naval intelligence called ’Comm 12’ which is leaking accurate information regarding the alien agenda into the public arena. When the missile (not plane) hit the pentagon on 9-11, it hit the naval intelligence section of the building. This was part of the internal war between Aquarius and Comm 12 being played out. Aquarius has also enlisted the help of Hollywood and the mainstream media to twist the facts of the alien agenda and blind the public to the truth. Sir Martin Wakefield Jacomb was director for the telegraph newspapers in 1986. He is also connected into MI6 and is involved with laundering MI6 drug money through the bank of England. Jacomb was the director of the bank of England from 1987 to 1995. Former head of the CIA William Casey was head of the council of the media network ABC. Many Insiders refer to the ABC network as ‘The CIA network’. The grey and reptilian aliens working together with the military in the underground bases is called MIEC (military industrial extra- terrestrial complex). This is a malevolent organisation, as you shall see with the following information. There are also benevolent ET’s on this planet. These groups are not part of the MIEC and are from the Pleiades, Andromeda, Lyra, Procyon, Tau Ceti, Sirius A, and Ummo. These groups seem to work together in some kind of protective ‘federation’. On February 20, 1954 a delegation from these groups met with the Eisenhower administration in an unsuccessful effort to reach an agreement on the US’s thermonuclear weapons program. The stumbling block to these negotiations was that these ET’s were not willing to provide technology that might have been used by the military-industrial factions of the Eisenhower administration. These peace loving ‘human looking’ beings refused to be co-opted into the emerging military industrial extra terrestrial complex (MIEC) in the US, Britain, Russia and elsewhere on the planet. On July 11, 1934 the first treaty with the greys from Orion occurred aboard a naval ship in Balboa. This was one of the most important events in human history because it thrust us into a role we were not prepared for as regards to being a host to a malevolent extra-terrestrial race. The US federal government disregarded the constitution of the United States by doing this and not telling the people. It was here that the agreement was first made between the greys representing the reptilians from Orion and representatives of the US intelligence community. The treaty stated that in return for the greys providing high technology (anti-gravity, metals and alloys, environment, free energy and medical technology) the government would allow the greys to proceed unhindered with human abductions. This was only if a list of abductees was provided to the government and the abductees returned unharmed with their memories of the events erased. In 1944 the second extension of the treaty was signed. I have very little details of this. In May 1954 again under the Eisenhower administration the third extension of this treaty was signed called ‘The Greada treaty’. The greys and reptilians blatantly broke the terms of this treaty as we shall see later in this information. The greada treaty was agreed upon at the Holloman air force base in New Mexico by the greys and the ‘Ultra’ unit in the NSA. The original document of this treaty and the ET materials from it can be found today at the NSA facility called ‘Blue moon’ underneath Kirkland air force base in New Mexico. The entrance to this underground base is in the Manzano mountains. Also at this location is the technological base of the secretive department of energy (DOE). Today free energy devices developed from grey and reptilian technology are being built for use in space at the DOE base. On April 15 1964 two intelligence personnel met under ‘project Plato’ with the greys in the New Mexico desert to arrange a meeting on April 25 at Holloman air force base in New Mexico. This meeting was to renew the treaty again in a psychological bid to buy time in order to solve the problem of the greys and reptilians. A truly nightmarish situation is now unfolding. Phil Schneider was a geologist, structural engineer and underground tunnelling expert for the US government and the UN. He participated in the construction of many DUMBS in North America and other countries. Phil was murdered by the CIA on January 17 1996 in his apartment in Wilsonville in Portland, Oregon. In 1979 in Dulce New Mexico, Phil Schneider was drilling into the desert there to build an auxiliary base in the southern end of Dulce on top of an already existing underground base there. The already existing base had been built by the US government in the 1940’s under ’ operation blue note’ but afterwards had been taken over by greys and reptilians. Over a period of two days Phil and his team had drilled four holes in the desert that went down several thousand feet. I’ll crash the thread if I print all there is this is from only halfway through. You gotta check it out. -E Just a Thought says: November 13, 2008 at 7:35 PM PJ fount of profundities that you are I will ask again, how do you pretend to know me? Untill you called me out by name I was not aware of all the things you have given me credit for. Thank you (I guess)? Just a Thought says: November 13, 2008 at 7:42 PM I will echo Leah and support her as well as claim it for myself …..”but what you most DEFINATELY may NOT DO is DEFINE ME.” Thank you again Leah for just the right words!! Ricochet says: November 13, 2008 at 7:50 PM To be sang to the tune of row row row your boat Roll roll roll a joint !! Twist it at the ends !! Light it up and take a puff !! And pass it to a friend !!! Good nite…..Mates, -R- Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 7:57 PM Paul, wqe are not in the middle of Inter Glacial period, we are at the end.. The New Ice age is almost upon us.. Proofs you would say, right? Here you go — Record snowfall in Europe and North America – ski resorts open early 11 Nov 08 Rain, snow halts North Dakota row crop harvest 10 Nov 08 2008 Temperatures Below NormalMost of USA 12 Nov 08 Snow storms roll across the US – 11 Nov 08 Record low temperature shatters 52-year-old record – 7 Nov 08 Blizzard blasts Plains; parts of I-90 closed – 6 Nov 08 Record October cold in Anchorage – 4 Nov 08 Half a month’s rain in one day in South Africa – 13 Nov 08 – Chilliest November night on record in Tasmania – 5 Nov 08 Worst November snowfall in 30 years hits New Zealand “More akin to the depths of winter.” 4 Nov 08 Britain set to plunge into Arctic weather conditions this month – 3 Nov 08 Surrey enjoys first October snowfall in 121 years – 29 Oct 08 Skiing in Scotland already! – 31 Oct 08 Record snow storm in Switzerland – The most snow for any October since records began in 1931 – 30 Oct 08 First October snow in London in 74 years – 29 Oct 08 Heavy snow in Tibet – Rare for this time of year – 29 Oct 08 Blizzards forecast as temperature set to drop lower than Siberia … no wonder the swans are staying there – 28 Oct 08 Brisbane has coldest October morning since 1976 – 23 Oct 08 Record cold snap brings snow to Australia – 22 Oct 08 Early snowfall across Ontario – 22 Oct 08 – One month’s rain in four days in Costa Rica – 18 Oct 08 Greenland temps more akin to December, not early October – 4 Oct 08 South Africa faces ‘winter wonderland’ after snow and coldest September in recorded history – 21 Sep 08 Source – BBC Weather News.. Now do you say all this is mere co-incidence??? Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 8:04 PM Paul, You have no right to splash mud on the works of Velikovsky and likes. THE work of Zecharia Sitchin is without question the most mind stretching cosmology available to date. Furthermore, it appears unchallanged academically. I personally recommend everyone to read Zecharia Sitchin’s Earth Chronicles. You won’t be disappointed. Among other things, Sitchin’s investigations indicate that there may be an outpost in orbit around Mars preventing current humans from getting there (a fact verified by both U.S.and Russian space probe problems in that neighborhood). But the primary focus of this impressive research is ancient Sumer. The decipherment of that culture’s clay tablets, buried for millennia, reveals roots that stretch all the way back to 450,000 B.C. There are some very significant findings on the existence of this other race of people. One the rather compelling is the “face on Mars,” the structure in the area called , Cydonia on the Red Planet (Mars). ~Now this is really groovy—> When the relationship of the face on Mars is analysed for its distance to other pyramidal structures also discovered on Mars, the geometric relationship is found to be “identical” to the distances of the Egyptian Sphinx and the Pyramids in the surrounding areas of Egypt. Sitchin concluded the placement of these pyramids indicates that they served as landing markers for the Nibiruans after they entered the Earth’s atmosphere from outer space. Sitchin also has asserted that the early pyramids were not designed by the Egyptians (Anyone that has actually researched what was involved in the designing of the pyramids can see why this makes sense). NBC-TV aired a program on Nov.10, 1993 entitled “The Mystery of the Sphinx”, indicating that the Sphinx is 2,000 years older than previously thought. Then, in Jan 2001, the Discovery channel aired a special where scientists now think the Sphinx could be as much as 10,000 yrs old! This corroborates Sitchin’s findings that someone other than the Egyptians designed the Sphinx & Pyramids. ONE astounding assertion after another has made Sitchin the most controversial writer of our time because he challenges everything we thought we knew about “human civilization” (or at least what we’ve been spoon fed, to think we know) . It’s easy to dismiss Sitchin’s research in the same way that other people dismiss UFO’s, Eric Von Daniken and countless other researchers who claimed to have found evidence for extraterrestrial visitors to this planet. But Sitchin is well aware of this devil’s advocacy, and vaporizes the arguments of skeptics with solid scholarship, including the most rigorous translations of Sumerian text, Vedic tales and excerpts from the original Greek and Hebrew versions of the Bible. This ability to translate many languages is no small achievement. Those of us who will never possess the ability to decipher 6,000-year-old clay tablets must understand that Sitchin has devoted his life to doing just that.(Not to mention risking his reputation). His sources reveal an utter integrity, including the finest, most respected citations and references imaginable. THE two most notable individuals to pay attention and meet with Sitchin were Colin Powell and Norman Schwarzkopf, the American Generals who were key figures in the recent Gulf War. The landing place of the Nibiruans was in an area once called Eridu, now called Southern Iraq. The main reason Saddam Hussein was not captured was because he was holding out in an ancient step pyramid constructed by one of those early civilizations mentioned by Sitchin, and which the Americans were loathe to bomb, because of their “inestimable” historical value. Once the gloss of the media is removed from consensus reality, an entirely new picture emerges as to who knows what concerning what Sitchin has uncovered. The circumstantial evidence in the Earth Chronicles concerning the Nibiruans is absolutely compelling…………( And thus far, un-contested) Just a Thought says: November 13, 2008 at 8:11 PM Much appreciated. Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 8:11 PM Yeah Leah, you used the perfect words… All that paul does here is define people! You will be a Good litigator for sure! Wonder where his good friend Martin has gone?? I want him to come back because i have a lot more of “his chinese history” to pile upon him! Rico, its so sad how people like Paul ridicule the works of Sitcin and all, without knowing anything about the same! If there was any expert on Sumerian History, its him without any doubt and without any Peers!! Epumpin, Scary indeed… There was never any doubt that the Govt hides a lot more than it reveals….. You keep unearthing such sinister plans!!! Raven, Now thats quite a revelation… But you know what, Paul will do a somersault and pounce upon you now! Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 8:39 PM Anytime Leah….. And no, you did not disappoint me, because i know there is a limit to how far one can be pushed! And i agree with your last post… I promise to refrain from commenting upon “Paul” henceforth… But i will surely address posts to him to have arguments, but i can assure you that it will never come down to personal affronts.. Leah, re Ancient texts, i already see them making perfect sense with every aspect! Paul says that we are the most technically advanced generation.. I wonder what he has to got say about the accuracy of Mayan Astronomical Calculations?? And thats Pure astronomy i am talking about, cycles of Venus, Moon etc… Just a Thought says: November 13, 2008 at 8:44 PM As for PLAY NICE, Count me in! Just could not help but wonder, and I have asked more than once. Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 8:48 PM Sure Just A Thought….. Lets show them that we can counter their profanities through Niceties, and if even that does not work, we can choose to ignore! But as of now, i am holding up my White Flag! Lets see if the Golden Rule works here! Just a Thought says: November 13, 2008 at 9:05 PM Amit, That’s far out, solid and right-on my brother. Lady Leah, (I feel) We are not worthy. For fear of forgetting to name someone, To summit people, each one of you are valuable to me! Keep the faith, together we may be able to “break the code” or find some answers. Just a Thought says: November 13, 2008 at 9:08 PM I had asked our buddy pj who the person he thinks I am is. Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 9:12 PM Leah, be sure that i am always intrigued by the concept of Time & Distance…. Do you know about Edgar Rice Burrough’s “Pellucidar” series? I know its pure fiction (Before anyone comments adversely on this). In Pellucidar (At The Earth’s core), there is a sun that hangs perpetually over the land, and there is no concept of time there… People just sleep when they are tired and eat when they are hungry…. Weird, but an interesting concept.. And the book is so fantastic! If you want , you can download the text free on Project Gutenberg (because the Copyright has expired) and read… Just a Thought says: November 13, 2008 at 9:12 PM Angels can be lethal, make no mistake about that! Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 9:16 PM Dear JAT, dont be bothered about what others think of you. You are what you are! nd as far as i know you, you seem to be a “Good Fella”… People are inclined to have their own opinions. All we can do is try to change it of it pertains to us. If it works, fine. If its doesn’t, well, Who Cares! Row your boat……. Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 9:20 PM It feesl so nice to be “talking” to you here!!! I generally hve to play catch up after you have all gone to sleep! Wonderful time this! And Good Night Lady Leah! May you have dreams of the 5th Sun, a world without peril and hate, with eveyone having a halo about their head and playing Harp/Piano! Just a Thought says: November 13, 2008 at 9:23 PM I KNEW IT AMIT – (fun)- what’s in your pipe-don’t ask don’t tell. Leah- weary and tired, go to rest and wake even more blessed. Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 9:27 PM leah, My interest in Edgar Rice Burroughs started with “Earth Mysteries” on Scared texts.. I first read many stories about “Center of The Earth”.. There is one by Jules Verne which is very impressive, a very scientific sort of journey.. There is another called “Etidorhpa” .. Wonderful works. But dont keep a “critic” like attitude while reading, just take it as Entertainment along with some true facts.. OK, after that i hit upon the EDB stuff.. And i’m hooked on ever since.. His Martian series, Caspak Series, Pellucidar Series.. Absolutely wonderful wonderful stuff!!! I am a voracious reader and just gobbling up his books day after day! Amit says: November 13, 2008 at 10:21 PM Yes, Leah nothing beats the pleasure of leafing through an “Actual” book.. But internet does a great job of preserving these old works and making them available to us! Arthur Clarke is wonderful, and so is Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.. I just adore his great character called “Professor Challenger”! Clive Barker is also very interesting, Undying and Unbeliever, especially… And ever heard of Robert E Howard?? Yeah, you got me started.. Martin says: November 13, 2008 at 11:18 PM Amit, you ask where I am, Bangkok time + 7hours on the comp. It seems when I am awake most of you are awake, and the other way round. When I start my day I have to catch up by reading for more than an hour until I have time to comment. But Amit, thank you so much, I really mean it and really appreciate it for your posts 13 nov 1.30am. These chinese stories are great and I never heard of them. Thank you so much. Martin says: November 13, 2008 at 11:20 PM sorry when you are awake, I’m asleep and other way round Martin says: November 13, 2008 at 11:29 PM Asking for my backkground? Electrical engineer computer engineer, Doing research in AI with Phycisists, Mathmaticans and Electrical Engineers between 1985 and 1991. Then stopped. hopped to England, Totnes lived in the area 2 years, hopped back to southern Germany for another 2 years, then got lost in the djungle of Thailand for the last 14 years. Since 1991 haven’t touched a book, except The teachings and the canon of the Lord Buddha. and the teachings of Acharn Mun and Acharn Maha Boowa. If you are interested in mythical stuff, celestial beings, ghosts demons nagas etc. read the biography of Acharn Mun. He has encountered these beings talked with them and asked them questions. etc. When young I read all of Arthur Clarke and Arthur Conan Doyle. and so on. More questions about me? Martin says: November 13, 2008 at 11:32 PM BTW, when I came to Thailand, a site excavation in the North east of Thailand was discovered and was at that time counted for as the oldest civilization found on the planet. Martin says: November 13, 2008 at 11:36 PM it was dated 7000 BC Martin says: November 13, 2008 at 11:43 PM I find it a bit strange that the Aliens after 1935 only contacted US Government? About the Bell or die Glocke, Madame Curie found out about radiation a century before. So I don’t think the development of the Glocke to be so strange. Especially when the atomic bomb was developed in Germany at the same time. Or maybe I didn’t get the point what you were trying to say. Maybe I misunderstood you completely. Then I’m truly sorry. Martin Martin says: November 13, 2008 at 11:54 PM Raven, thanks a lot. You have any idea in what time range these super volcanos might erupt? And About the dark ages. The last I knew was about 400AD that the OstGoths invaded Rome, the next chapter was Emperor Karl The Great in around 800 AD. Inbetween was at my time left blank. And now I wonder why I never asked this question what happened inbetween, Martin says: November 14, 2008 at 12:11 AM Oh BTW In Thailand there are beings called Nagas. Huge snakes. They normally do belong to the Demon Realm of Existence. The US Maine caught one of them as a snake. I have to dig out the photo if someone is interested. These Nagas have large cities underground. They can change their form of appearance, be it snakes or demons or even to human shape. They can fly, or go by foot or crawl as a snake. They also can create. There is a site in North East of Thailand, it is called Oasis and its plantation or trees were created in one night. And the vegetation is unknown to grow in this region elswhere. It happened In this century about 40 or fifty years ago. The oasis is 1 km in diameter. There is a deep well unmeasurable in depth where this naga lives. At the time of the Lord Buddha one of the nagas appearing in human form wanted to ordain as a monk, but the Lord Buddha refrained and told only human beings are allowed to ordain. just for your consideration Martin Martin says: November 14, 2008 at 12:15 AM Amit you say you have more of these chinese stories. You don’t have to type them just give me a few links Thanks a lot. Martin Amit says: November 14, 2008 at 12:38 AM Hey Martin, Good to know more about you.. Can you refer me some good links about the teachings of Acharn Mun and Acharn Maha Boowa. I am very much interested in Buddhism because their teachings are very humanitarian and relate to doing some basic things in a simple manner to attain peace of mind.. As for more Chinese stories, i will keep them coming. As of now, i would suggest you to research about Dropa Stones…. If possible, share your findings here… And Oh, about that photograph of Naga, please do that by all means! And BTW, “Naga” is a hindi word which means Snake… And as for Alien thery, even i find it strange that they have contacted only US Govt , in secret. But their contacts being controlled is a possibility that we cannot discard entirely either… And what do we know, maybe the Alien hand is the reason for US domination of the world in the last century ?? Just a speculation…. Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 9:55 AM Dear Paul, RE the 1500 DUMBs today, compared to some of the underground dwellings of the past, such as the town in Turkey, it looks very much like something happens on a regular basis, that necessitates going underground for safety. Naturally it does not happen according to a clock or calendar, it happens by formula and when the conditions synchronise. The pictures of Spacemen etc, as in Von Daniken……could just as easily be of men in HAZMATS. The picture of a 1 eyed being, could be of a later generation that had mutated due to radiation. It is feasible to wonder if the effects of a past event / events, might have been so devastating, that it was not possible to live on the surface for a very long time, after which those humans evolved to their conditions and way of life underground, and did not return to live on the surface. Those few that survived on the surface, naturally will have developed differently, according to surface conditions. The survival of the fittest and finest in all species, is what we are today, mutations and all. There maybe a caste living below ground, which by appearances seem alien, but which are humans. Its no good to say impossible, as we weren’t there. Next year an expedition to find such places will commence. We shall see. Re ancients having possibly more technology than we do today…….there is no reason to feel threatened by that……as we are by default and the passing of time, the more highly evolved generation. It is this fact that makes us much more likely to survive repeat events….well. We are able to decipher the metaphors, myths and legends, left to us by the past, and in so doing, come up with the technology and science needed to help ourselves. We no longer call a space rocket, a ship of the Gods, or such like. We know its true nature, and call iy by its true name…..etc. Further, our capacity and skill to think and question, as individuals has increased to the extent that we are no longer so easily influenced by those that might wish to impress upon us their ideas / version of truth as the only definative truth in fact. Our resistance capacity to such tactics are at an all time high, as it were. Be well, Leah Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 10:09 AM Hitler burnt books…..putting them on a different shelf …? An example of what I just wrote, “The wish, of one or more, to impress their version of a definitive truth in fact.” Sadly, the past has shown, that such acts / behaviour, have agendas, hidden or otherwise, as the driving force behind them. OR, driven by fear that a discovery of truth, will alter reality for ever….prefering to bury head in sand (ostriches don’t do that) and continue living a lie in the dark…..because it is at least, familiar. Martin says: November 14, 2008 at 3:19 AM you will find all the books under this link http://www.luangta.com/English/site/books.php I’m going to look for the picture what is dropa stones are they relics? bye for now Martin Amit says: November 14, 2008 at 3:35 AM Martin, I will tell you what i know about Dropa Stones. Then you can research further if you want. The year was 1938. Location – Baian-Kara-Ula mountains on the border that divides China and Tibet. An archaeological expedition, led by Chi Pu Tei, has trudged into the barely accessible mountain range, and has happened upon some caves that had obviously been occupied by a primitive people long ago. On the walls were carved pictograms of the heavens: the sun, the moon, the stars, and the Earth with lines of dots connecting them. Then the team made the most incredible discovery of all. Half-buried in the dirt floor of the cave was an odd stone disk, obviously fashioned by the hand of an intelligent creature. The disk was approximately nine inches in diameter and three-quarters of an inch thick. In the exact center was a perfectly round, 3/4″ hole, and etched in its face was a fine groove spiraling out from the center to the rim, making the disk look for all the world like some kind of primitive phonograph record.This one plate, dated to be between 10,000 and 12,000 years old , but the wonder was multiplied manifold. In all, 716 such plates were found. And each held an incredible secret. The groove, upon further inspection, was not a groove at all, but a continuous line of strange carved hieroglyphics – writing! Dr. Tsum Um Nui , in 1962, painstakingly transcribed the characters from the disk to paper. The writing was so small he had to use a magnifying glass to see it clearly. But the stones were old – perhaps 12,000 years old, it was estimated – and much of the hieroglyphics were difficult to make out or had been worn away by time and the elements. As he worked, many questions nagged the professor. How did these primitive people fashion these precise stones? How did they manage the almost microscopic writing? Who were they and what was the purpose of these hundreds of stones? Once the characters were transcribed, Dr. Tsum Um Nui began the arduous task of trying to decode its message. Eventually, he began to make progress. A word emerged. Then another. A phrase became understandable, then an entire sentence. He had broken the code. He discerned that the messages on the stones were written by a people who called themselves the Dropa. But what they were saying to him 12,000 years later made no sense. What the Dropa had written must have been one of their cultural myths, or was part of some prehistoric religious ceremony. Or was it? When he had completed the translation the professor wrote up a paper on his findings and presented it to the university for publication. Their reaction was swift and emphatic: the paper would not be published. The Academy of Prehistory expressly forbade him to publish or even speak of his findings. The world, the academy decided, should not know about the Dropa and their fateful journey to Earth.The Dropa disks tell the story of a space probe from a distant planet that crash-landed in the Baian-Kara-Ula mountains of the Himalayas. The occupants of the spacecraft – the Dropa – found refuge in the caves of the mountains.The stones go on to say how the Dropa were unable to repair their disabled spacecraft and could not return to their home planet, and so were stranded on Earth. If that’s true, have their descendents survived? Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 3:38 AM Sorry to contradict you Raven but the ‘powers that be’ are definitely not keeping the knowledge of super volcanoes to themselves. The Potzuoli/Bay Of Naples sea-bed rise has been the subject of two Horizon programmes on BBC 2 here in Britain – the first in the mid 1980’s the second just a few years ago. The Yellowstone super volcano has also been highlighted and discussed on an Horizon programme and well as in an edition of a series of BBC2 programmes about gloabal cataclysmic events which included asteroid impacts and giant tsunamis. The Dark Ages appears to have been initiated by some ‘big’ event probably a volcanic eruption. The early 19th century, [1815?] saw The Year WIthout A Summer whic was due an eruption caused by crustal splitting in Iceland. The effects were felt as far afield as China where hte rice harvest failed. There is a first hand account of it’s impact in Iceland by a Lutherean pastor. very vivid and very detailed. However, he felt it was a judgement from god – not that his belief diminishes his account which has in part led to some understanding of these type of of eruptions. Martin says: November 14, 2008 at 3:46 AM about dropa stones http://www.crystalinks.com/dropa.html the disks seem to have disappeared and the skeletons are where? … going to look up more Martin says: November 14, 2008 at 3:57 AM I just copy a comment by william about dropa stones. I would venture to say this is an elaborate hoax. Not so much on the story itself, but by the amazing lack of any other piece of information to be found. When you search the web for “Dropa Stones” you’ll find lots of returns (200+), but almost all of them are this article, copied-and-pasted, complete with the same pictures. If this were a real story, there would be some other pieces of material in alternate forms. .. wherever I look I only find the same kind of information no other clues no other pictures and no pictures of the skeletons. Martin Martin says: November 14, 2008 at 4:23 AM So the last research on Dropa is a very informative article under link http://www.ufodata.co.uk/pdf/UFO_Files_China's_Roswell.pdf When you look up the sources it all links back to the primary article. All what you can find on this topic is covered in the above link. Unless the discs and the skeletons are not found there is no evidence and not the slightest proof that Aliens visited Earth about 12,000 BC And if they had the technolgy to travel space they would surly have the technology to protect themselves from arrows and axes. have a nice day Martin Martin says: November 14, 2008 at 4:41 AM Hello Paul, cannot poste 3x erased, have two questions Martin says: November 14, 2008 at 4:44 AM Paul any more information you have concerning the supervolcanos? Know anything about Ries-crater and its effect. It says it had th power of 1.8 million Hiroshima bombs and was a meteor of diameter of 1.5 km ? Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 5:37 AM A man seemingly, and hopefully, recovers from A.I.D.S. after bone marrow transplant following treatment for leukaemia. Brilliant news. Science 1; mumbo jumbo/ spell casting/incantation muttering 0. QED. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 5:39 AM To the people here whose avowed aim is to infect this site. It’s just like Bill Hicks said: “You’re just viruses with shoes”, or whatever it is that ‘JAT’ and his minions slip over their tentacles or claws. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 5:52 AM MArtin. Can’t say I’ve heard of the Ries crater. I’ll try to look it up. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 5:56 AM Look at these links for super volcanoes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/1999/supervolcanoes.shtml – http://www.geolsoc.org.uk/gsl/lang/en/pid/2970 Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 6:20 AM Last night as I was viewing the full moon I’m sure I heard some dogs howling. Anubis and friends?, I thought. More likely Amit/Rico/JAT. Yes, another cheap shot but the weekend beckons when everything is allowed. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 6:25 AM Robert E. Howard. Brilliant author, one of my favourites. I happen to think Conan is one of the best and most complete heroes in science fantasy. Howard is a master story teller and I feel he’s in a long line of traditional story tellers who can trace their lineage back to the camp fires thousands of years ago. Reading his stuff almost takes you there and involves you as a bystander to events. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 6:35 AM Regarding the Mayan calendar. Once again I have absolutely NO problem with their accuracy in time keeping, their accuracy in detailing planetary and stellar motions across the sky. Ditto, Sumerians, upon whose calcualtions Greek and hence modern astronomy is based[ got that??] and the ancient Britons. All fine observer of the day and night skies. No problem. Period. You may be interested however to learn that the most recent excavations at Stonehenge appear to indicate that while it may have been in part at some time during it’s life an aastronomical construction it’s main function was as a meeting place in the south west of Britain for the exchange of ideas, goods, healing [but not of the magical kind] and even perhaps as a place where tribal disputes in the area were resolved. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 6:56 AM I’ve not ridiculed Sitchin yet because I’ve not had time to seek him out. However if he is in the same camp as Velikovsky, who I have read, then he can expect the same. I read von Daniken as a teenager and enjoyed the first and to some believed what he was saying as I found archaeology too conservative. It also tied in with my belief in aliens out there and I was desperate to believe they had visited. However further readings convinced me otherwise. I also read ‘The Mysterious Unknown’ by Robert Charroux which did contain a number of interesting items; The Zarkon Principle which was a good read though barmy; and Our Mysterious Spaceship Moon by Soviet academicians Vasin and Shcherbakov. So I’m not unfamiliar with the stuff that has found it’s way from the wilder shores of sanity to a site discussing astronomy. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 7:00 AM One good thing to come from the von Daniken books was an album called ‘In Search Of Ancient Gods’ by a band called Absolute Elsewhere released in 1976. Quite a good l.p. which if I could get it on c.d. I would as it’s too much hassle to transfer it from vinyl. Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 2:05 PM Dear Owen, Welcome. Mmmmm……bees, buzzing….working. I like it. Leah Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 2:20 PM Dear Campfire, “The weekend beckons, when everything is allowed”, reminds me that, should something occur, sensational or clandestine, that evokes the words or thoughts “It is not real”……one could as Becky wrote…..go indoors, put some loud music on, OR at the very least dub it NOT REAL, not react, not be ruled by emotions, until such time when the occurance has been considered from all perspectives, and its possible INTENTION. Eyes are there to fool, being only lenses. Only seeing with the mind, can one accurately glean a true picture, and its contents. Having said that, D’s post may have negated anything occuring at all. Be well, Leah Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 2:22 PM Dear Owain, Applogies re your name….should have put glasses back on first. What’s the buzzing about ? We make like butterflies, (chaos theory etc). or at least we thought we did. Leah Ricochet says: November 14, 2008 at 7:47 AM BTW Paul, I had a copy of the 1932 pulp weird tales with “The Phoenix on the sword”. The first Conan story by Robert E. Howard in almost mint condition. Perhaps you believe in Crom. -R- Ricochet says: November 14, 2008 at 8:02 AM Paul you should read the Biblical book of Ezekiel. Le us know how your 21st century mind interprets whats you find. -R- Ricochet says: November 14, 2008 at 8:06 AM If you’r going to look into Sitchin, just read the first book of the earth chronicles. Again…Its called….”The 12th Planet”. The whole series is 6 books with a couple of side books like “The Lost Book Of Enki”. But the 12th planet will do in your case. Being as how you don’t follow archeology this book will enlighten you somewhat. -R- Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 8:11 AM Having looked again at the Baalbek temple and read Alan F. Alford’s account it is at first, even second glance, a truly monumental[no pun intended] effort. I withdraw my pulleys and lever contention. But for Alford to suggest that it was superior technology that built it is pushing things a bit too far. With the Romans tramping all over the Near East and subsequently building on top of the temple it is hard to see how they would have missed any remaining technology. Stories and legends etc would surely have pointed them in the direction of what techniques were used. Well not legends as such but rather accounts. Even so it IS a mystery and one worth investigating. But reaching for superior or alien technology before all other earthly and human ingenuity is explored and exhausted is scientifically wrong. It is such a reaction that leads to derision. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 8:12 AM One of the subjects I studied at uni. was archaeology. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 8:14 AM I know about Ezekiel and his apparent voyage in a space ship which enabled him to look down on the earth. I became quite excited about that when reading The Mysterious Unknown. Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 8:26 AM Phoenix On The Sword is a fabulous story and much better than the original version, By This Axe I Rule a King Kull story. becky says: November 14, 2008 at 8:30 AM everyone but paul— BANG HEAD HERE!!!!!!! Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 8:36 AM The Ries crater is a tremendous thing. I certainly wouldn’t liked to have been anywhere southern Germany at the time. The diamonds produced by the impact would be nice though. It’s going to happen again sometime though of course we don’t know when. NASA have made a start with the Near Earth Objects [NEO] project which tracks earth orbit-crossing meteroids, asteroids etc and should eventually warn us of anything that threatens in a big way. Until we develop a way of steering a big one away we’ll just have to hope nothing looms up out of the shadows. becky says: November 14, 2008 at 8:53 AM LEAH–THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH!!!! to leah, amit, rico, JAT, espumpin, raven, and even martin…there is absolutely nothing i can add or say, except “ditto”, and thank you all so much…yes, you all ARE A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!!!!! so glad we are on the same team… Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 8:57 AM Rico. If you read Alan Alford’s account of the stones at Baalbek you’ll see he consulted a British construction firm about the possibility of modern lifting equipment moving 1000-1500 tons stones. They said that they have two cranes capable of lifting that sort of mass though moving would be difficult though not impossible. However as I said earlier quite how the ‘Baalbekians’ did it is problematical, at present. Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 3:59 PM Should something occur or change, that is individual, and therefore unique to each….each is both alone, and at liberty to choose, to accept or reject. becky says: November 14, 2008 at 9:14 AM in ian’s original text, he wrote: “There is no reason to think the strong magnetic field of the Earth can be influenced by any external force, let alone a non-existent planet (or was that a brown dwarf?)”. and in his summary, he wrote: “There is no evidence to suggest external forcing of internal geomagnetic dynamics of the Earth. Therefore there is no evidence of the solar cycle-geomagnetic shift connection. Don’t get me started on Planet X.” it is my thought that he left the door wide open for debate regarding what those external forces might be…it seems to me that the conflict occurs when we start discussing cosmic events or events we cannot conrol, versus “man-made” events which are contributing factors to the overall disintegration of planet earth…scientifically, the two may not be related…but it is those “unknown external forces” that link the two together…and opens the door to unlimited possibilities…all science and all technology started somewhere…we do not know with absolute certainty where we came from, much less where we are going… Paul Eaton-Jones says: November 14, 2008 at 9:16 AM Well it’s time to go home and leave you all behind and for some of you to wallow in the misery of your delusions. I’ll be enjoying myself with a good book on astronomy full of facts. I’ve just sent an e-mail to the head of my city libraries congratulating her and the committee for re-classifying Velikovsky, von Daniken et al as fiction. I’ve also asked her to contact other libraries across the country to consider doing the same. If they’re as rational we can look forward to a rolling back of the forces of blind ingnorance and stupidity. One more advance for the cause of science. Hurrah. becky says: November 14, 2008 at 9:25 AM paul–they did not have “modern day cranes” when all those stone were originally lifted…what are you thinking???? becky says: November 14, 2008 at 9:45 AM dearest paul–i TRULY hope that library thing works out for you…hurrah for you!!!! speaking solely for myself, i’m not quite sure i understand exactly what that will accomplished…but i am sure it makes perfect sense to you…God bless ya!!! Ricochet says: November 14, 2008 at 9:45 AM Don’t bother Becky. Like he got that library to remove those books from where they were. I got him to retract his levers and ramps theeory furthermore proving that he made it up and that it had no valid scientific value. Its a start. It proves hes not infallible. At least he looked into it. Also he didn’t say that the Brit construction company said that they could move the stones. They said it may be possible. Absolved, -Rico- Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 4:53 PM Dear Just a Thought, Just humour. In my case its stuff the Sparrow. Anyway in answer to the rest of your post. Its acedemic my dear Watson. Be well Sherlock Ricochet says: November 14, 2008 at 9:59 AM Just a quick FYI. I don’t know how book stores are in the UK but here in America we have stores like Barnes & Nobles and Borders. They have sections called “Speculation” which is where books of this nature are located. It a shame that when the spanish explorers arrived at south america, they brought along with them persons of the church. These religious maniacs burned thousands of ancient writings, mounds and mounds of knowledge. But whats truly amazing is that even now in the 21st century we have people that have admittedly a book burning mentality. Even on this thread there is such mantality. Right Paul? -R- Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 5:08 PM Dear Just a Thought, If your question is re my posts about this week end……Yes. Except there is always the potential for significant natural influences..e.g. incoming frequencies from galactic central. Leah Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 5:35 PM Dear Espumpin, I can confirm to you that Reconstituted stone is not complicated when understood, as it is with all things. 100 years ago or even earlier an alloy known as Pinchback, was passed off sucessfully as Gold. We make Diamonds, and grow Zircons, Spinels and so many more synthetic forms of natural minerals, too many to mention. Likewise in Massive form. Lapis Lazuli for example. Concrete is the most primitive and simple form. Leah Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 5:49 PM Dear Just a Thought, Where you are when appraising…….For me Where is also when, observing / appraising form a given vantage point. One could appraise the same thing from many vantage points….the when being different by default (time it takes to change location) or by design…..choosing a future point in time to appraise….either from the same vantage point or another. Leah Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 5:54 PM Forgive me if I think too loud. Now is also a man made reference. There is only the future that consistantly becomes the past. Now exists as a memory or in a photograph….fixed and captured. Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 5:59 PM Dear Just a Thought, Could “A Wrinkle in time” be say, A Doorway in Time ? A corridor, or Gap in time ? I ask this due to the word Wrinkle conjuring up the word Fold, as in Over lap in time……or is it an overlap, from time to time, depending on conditions ? Leah Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 6:12 PM Dear Just a Thought, Baalbek stones / rocks, recon ….could be. Would have to test a sample to see…..the testing is not like carbon dating……approx, its accurate. Takes aGemmologist ….and before any in the campfire remind me of a past profession…..yes I could arrange it in London easily. Leah Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 6:20 PM Dear Just a Thought, Yes. Like Betelgeuse, @ say 50 light years away (only an example distance), if it went super nova 50 light years ago minus a day, we would only see it tomorrow…and yet it had actually happened 50 years ago. Its a tough concept for many, except some like astronomers. Leah Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 6:29 PM Messier, by formula could only catalogue a number of objects, light from which was still observable….prooving their existance then and in the near past, (dependant on distance from Earth) at his time of observations. Messier’s catalogue would not list objects that had say winked out, and all light emitted had reached Earth prior to beginning his observations. Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 6:54 PM Dear Just a Thought, Time …ball of string….points that touch etc etc. Quantum Leap covered it in that context…on TV. H.G. Wells covered the context of time being linear. My gut translation for myself, was De-Bunk. BTW….Elsewhen, is a word used often locally to me. Leah Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 7:03 PM To forsake allegiance with false concepts. Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 7:18 PM Dear Just a Thought, A great lady and writer. Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 7:24 PM Just a Thought, About allegiance ? Only opinion….OK ? To cause introspection, and inspection outwardly, re the things and concepts to which one gives allegiance, or allies with. In English….Check out thoroughly, analyse, before believing in, hook line and sinker, blindly. Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 7:32 PM Folks…I just have to say this, at this point. The Speak / Jargon = a language for only the initiated, for the exclusion of all uninitiated = the ways of fraternities to keep those that are not members in the dark re their field, which gives a sense of power to the few over the many. Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 8:05 PM Dear Just a Thought, No. Just experts in general. On the contrary, the campfire puts simply, that which others have made sound too complicated for the masses to understand. Like Michio Kaku explains in English / plain language, not jargon. Leah Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 8:14 PM Hi Espumpin, We here, been discussing recon stone, and time. Leah Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 8:21 PM Dear espumpin, Got nothing re $, but watched your recommendation to Ricochet…..then wrote a post soon after, about reconstituted stone etc. Leah Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 8:23 PM No need to get put in lunatic asylam….just listen to Pink Floyd’s… The lunatic is in my head….or something like that…its on Dark side of the moon. Leah Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 8:30 PM Dear Just a Thought, Now you’ve reminded me…..I have to leave the thread for a while, to do book keeping and paperwork….beaurocratic self justification, as we must account for why we are still here, and surviving, and how……its endless, and so primitive. Leah…..frowning. Owain says: November 14, 2008 at 1:36 PM Just signed in here. The net is buzzing with this. Will submit comments later Stephen says: November 14, 2008 at 1:38 PM Getting vicious Leah says: November 14, 2008 at 9:41 PM Before I go, Having listened to something this evening……it would seem that, so long as the one saying the moon is made of cheese, has a slew of letters after their name, that is PHD’s etc, it must be true….they are qualified, they are experts, they are the ones that know conclusively……and are for the most part believed. If Jung were reading this, he would say…..Leah has some kind of complex about those with PHD’s etc etc….I would be diagnosed. I used “moon made of cheese” as an extreme example, because only extremes are noticed these days. I have no complex, am not envious of PHD’s in any way, because I have had the freedom to study all things, at a pace of my own choosing. My point is, that so long as anyone has only partial understanding, of any thing at all, they cannot claim to be a definative expert, and especially not, if the majority of their info is inherited via teaching. There are none that can know it all, about anything at all. Ricochet says: November 14, 2008 at 3:09 PM Paul the quarry where the stones at Baalbek are thought to have come from was 6 miles away. The terrain there isn’t exactly the autobahn. Its rather crude and unfriendly. These stones had to have been moved 6 mile over nasty hostile terrain and then raised and placed in a concise manner. There are 3 stones that weigh around 2000 tons. This phenomenom isn’t exclusive to Baalbek. If I remember correctly theres another one that weighs just as much in Israel. Remember when science was offering the theory that the pyramids were the tombs of Pharoes? Did you know that at the big Pyramid in Giza. There were no writings inside the pyramid. If these buildings weren’t tombs like we now know. What were they built for? Paul, you mention that due to the fact that science cannot offer an explanation at this time that this does not mean that we are free to assume that it was aliens. This is not my assumption. It is what the actual peoples of the time left behind as an explanation. I don’t think Owein is saying that the internet is buzzing with talk about a geomagnetic reversal. Its a crap subject. The internet is buzzing about the 2012 thingy. Like I said in previous post. The closer we get to the date the worse it will be and don’t let something happn before then because it’ll really get hairy out here. I read that in Amsterdam the populace is taking 2012 very seriously and that they are investing in underground bunkers and such. There was a program on TV here also about the Yellowstone volcano. It mentioned the volatility but it didn’t say with any conviction that it could be any day now. How do you evacuate 30 US states? Of course “they” would tell anyone!! Leah our group brings life to this blog just like the last one. Keepin’ it real, -R- Espumpin says: November 14, 2008 at 3:13 PM I kept an open mind to what D said as well. One of the things…….” doubt from one can cause all of you to repeat the cycles” Was that an escape clause?, then was written…… “We ask you to highlight the names on the thread and read the posts in order if you wish to find our insight clearer. For the lightbringers brigade please maintain your faith & openmindness.” Which keeps me thinking for better or worse. Glad to see I wasn’t the only one wondering. I did highlight but there was alot missing you know should be there, the whole story is possiable to be told. Write back after tonights game. Espumpin Espumpin says: November 14, 2008 at 3:18 PM *the whole story is not possible to be told. Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 4:41 PM Humor me this, For a stress free Thanksgiving: Stuff the turkey with prozac. On a different note; My friend paul has yet to answer where his highly scientific mind thinks it has a clue about me and where he formed this fantastic thought from. Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 4:58 PM A possible means to laying out the drawings that are so large they can only be seen from the air – Kites – with people attached of course, you humans have done more outlandish/risky things in the persuit of “fun”. Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 5:00 PM I think I meant we humans. Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 5:02 PM Leah, Do you mean science-FACTion? Espumpin says: November 14, 2008 at 5:21 PM Rico, this ones for you my man…………… Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 5:37 PM I do not remember as much time has passed, The Dark Tower books, makes reference to the world having “moved on”. Any thought on that? John Titor seemed to discribe a world that had moved on. Interesting to think about if nothing else, but in reality today is not the same as yesterday or tommorrow so in a way it gets back to perspective, where you are at when appraising things. Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 5:53 PM A Wrinkle in Time Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 6:07 PM Leah, what if, in reference to your “and grow Zircons”: again what If, Baalbek stones were “grown” in place? It is a stretch! Waiting to see what Ricochet Says: Ricochet says: November 14, 2008 at 6:11 PM Leah they found the quarry from which they came. -R- Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 6:14 PM fixed and captured Yes – however – Still moving “forward” as in the light we see from “M113” was given off X number of years ago. Its past – our now. Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 6:20 PM Sorry R man, I spaced off the fact you had mentioned the quarry six rigorous miles away. Beg your pardon, if it does ya. Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 6:38 PM To cause to forsake allegiance is a discription of debauch. curiosity has me by the Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 6:43 PM Wrinkle conjuring up the word Fold, as in Over lap in time Yes! Allowing us to go “elsewhen” instead of elsewhere. Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 7:06 PM Madeline L’Engle introduced me to “elsewhen” via books. Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 7:08 PM Love to learn tell me more Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 8:00 PM As in Campfire? Espumpin says: November 14, 2008 at 8:11 PM I got about 10mins before I gotta go, wanted to see anybody see/do/hear anything? Espumpin says: November 14, 2008 at 8:18 PM DId anyone check the web sites I got ppl looking for that fault line stuff. Plus I have no news about our $ updates which kill me cuz I went from 60-0 & nobody cares as long as its not on the news. E Martin says: November 14, 2008 at 8:19 PM well I always was afraid to turn into a lunatic. But I just realised reading the last posts, something has twisted and I turned insane. An insane person does not understand the concepts of sanity any more. He only can live in his own world on insanity-fiction? So I will happily apply to be put into a mental hospital by tomorrow. Espumpin says: November 14, 2008 at 8:21 PM I gotta go but its really nice to get to talk to youse in real life time once in a while. May everyones light guide them to the “campfire” Espumpin Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 8:22 PM $ updates = a loud slurping sound. Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 8:38 PM Spot on, ’till next time… keeping an ear to the ground. Ricochet says: November 14, 2008 at 10:07 PM I forgot I read this somewhere. The bible was translated to english a long ass time ago. Before there were even cars. Imagine that someone should translate it now with a modernistic mentality. I’m sure the translation would differ tremendously. Martin, the first time the light hits you in the eyes that hard it hurts. It’ll either go away or you’ll go blind. Good luck dude, -R- Ricochet says: November 14, 2008 at 10:09 PM I ain’t no PHD, I ain’t nobody special. I know what I know and it is what it is. Yeah, that sounded real cool. May EA bless you all, -Rico – Shay- Leah says: November 15, 2008 at 5:47 AM Dear Owain, I had compared the concept of Burning books, to Re-classifying books and moving them to a different section / shelf. Within that comparison is the question, if burning books had not stopped people reading books of their choosing, then moving them around in a library, would either. 14th 10.09am…..re read if you wish, at no point did I mention, let alone compare Paul to anyone. Please do not cause emnity by jumping to conclusions, and misunderstanding the content. Leah Just a Thought says: November 14, 2008 at 10:54 PM Ricochet , It would be very helpful if the bible had been left complete without the ommissions imposed by the religion of the day. Martin says: November 14, 2008 at 11:09 PM I already admittet I’m a lunatic, so where is the problem. Being blinded is a fortunate state of being. Wasn’t there a song by men at work blinded by science. Anyway I must have been listening to Dark side of the moon too many times. After the wall came out, I preferred this from Pink Floyd. How about Look at yourself from Uriah Heep? A fool on the hill – The Beatles Or A Question of Balance from Moody Blues or something more like Stairway to heaven from Led Zeppelin oh Ricoh thanks for your compliment I really admire you having come to such a deep level of insight about me. Finally realized it, I was trying to hide it so hard Martin Leah says: November 15, 2008 at 6:15 AM that should be……moving them around in a library, WOULDN’T either. Martin says: November 14, 2008 at 11:34 PM Paul, thanks for the links, actually I lived not far away from the Ries for quite a few years. Wasn’t there a Novel about the insane people taking over the world and the sane had to be kept in asylums. It’s just a matter from what standpoint you look. Or? Hitler not only killed the Jews, but also the disabled and the insane Germans, or maybe it was the sane he killed and the insane remained??? Sometimes I have the feeling to become humorous, or is it sarcastical. I can’t differentiate. Maybe I listened to much to Tom Lehrer (1960’s Professor at MIT who wrote sarcastic songs) Amit I have the photo of the Naga, (in Thai its Payanag) but where to upload? It also has a Thai title, you want me to translate it? Or shall I send it to You? Once you see it you can compare it with video biggest snakes in the world http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np8Ki4VEEVk Martin Leah says: November 15, 2008 at 9:39 AM I,m beginning to feel that someone should write “Would the real ………s please stand up. Owain says: November 15, 2008 at 4:23 AM I meant the net is buzzing with this argument. well parts of it are. I think one or two of you have done Paul a huge disservice by comparing him to Hitler. He has never said you should burn Velikovsky or Von Daniken just move them from one section to another. It is somethng that happens in libraries all the time. Fromhis other posts I expect you’ll get roasted and so you should be. Very poor of you. If you’re going to comment on peoples posts then have the courtesy to read and analyse fully what is written. If you still think he’s advocating burniing books then maybe you are as deluded as him thinks. You owe him an apology for that at least. Owain says: November 15, 2008 at 4:24 AM Correction. I meant burn Velikosky’s and Von Danikens BOOKS not the writers. Leah says: November 15, 2008 at 1:03 PM Dear Raul, My sincere thanks for your post. Leah Just a Thought says: November 15, 2008 at 6:48 AM PJ ole pal, take Owains’ words to heart; “Very poor of you. If you’re going to comment on peoples posts then have the courtesy to read and analyse fully what is written.” Leah says: November 15, 2008 at 2:00 PM In the interest of detente, The depictions at Abydos, Egypt. Which is true: Are they ancient, as per scientists research ? Are they a hoax, put there / created just prior to discovery ? Leah says: November 15, 2008 at 2:14 PM Dear Owain, Would I be correct that your name is Welsh ? Also I’d be interested in your opinion re the age of the depictions at Abydos. Leah Leah says: November 15, 2008 at 2:21 PM Dear Mammi, Good one. The second line is the one that precludes science to really see…..but some are learning. Leah Martin says: November 15, 2008 at 7:44 AM thank you Owain, it just hits the spot. If Ricoh so much adheres to the bible, why not adhere to the sermon on the mount? I just follow the logic now… If we do not try to incorporate the sermon on the mount into our daily activities, including posting on this blog, are we then not those who go through the broad gate that leads to destruction? I do not dismiss the Bible, but do not adhere to it. Ezekiel is interesting, Hiob is intersting and so is the sermon on the mount. But what is lacking for my taste is the explanations why should we. Just the logic behind is missing. And I do submit to Logic or Reasoning. Be well Martin Leah says: November 15, 2008 at 3:05 PM Dear Stephen, There can be only one….side that is….Truth in fact..in Truth. Martin says: November 15, 2008 at 8:41 AM Dear Ian O’Neill, thank you so much. I read all the relating articles. and scanned through some of the blogs. And I saw that sometimes you comment. Your comments are cool, so are your articles. Your explanations are excellent reasoning and for me completely logical. I have no doubt about what you say. As I said in my last comment I submit to Logic and Reasoning. About six years ago my teacher, a British Electrical Engineer told my about the Mayan phrophecy. about 2012. And he told me that this will certainly come true. I looked at him very astonished, but I had no way to argue with him. He passed away 4 years ago, otherwise I surly would have printed your articles for him to read. But now I do have a question, in one of your comments you said, it was on the planet X is not niburu, that we cannot foretell or predict the future. Now the question, isn’t our science mostly about trying to predict future events, based on previous events? Like supervolcanos, or asteroids hitting the earth. It stated somewhere, either in the wikipedia about meteors, or a link from them that it is likely 1:47 that within the next 100 years a meteor diameter of 500 m will hit the earth-quite some impact. About the supervolcano Yellowstone Park, BBC said, I got the link from Paul, that the cycle of eruption is 600,000 years so now its overdue 40,000 years and can erupt anytime. If it erupts we will have a nuclear winter for about 3 years, that will lead to near extinction of all live forms. Then I looked it up under yellowstone supervolcano and there it states that the cycle is 650,000 years. That means we would still have 10,000 years to go. But we do have only two points in eruption history. You know we can draw a straight line that will mean 650,000 years or any other bicubic function, that would leave it completely open to when That were just two examples of predicting the future. Weather, hurricanes, volcanic eruption, earthquakes, they are studied very hard to be able to predict. future events. What do you think? How should I interpret your statment, or did I misunderstood it. Maybe your next article is about Yellowstone or any of the other supervolcanos is not going to erupt in 2012? Martin says: November 15, 2008 at 8:50 AM Sorry mistake bicubic will give us only one date, but there are many ways to fit a function y = a + bx + cx2 + dx3 + … or log or ln or e functions All of them will give us a different time of eruption. I haven’t done it for nearly 20 years, but I’m sure I could find a function that predicts the eruption to be in 2012. Owain says: November 15, 2008 at 8:55 AM Just A Thought. HAving read Paul’s posts I think he’s the one who is owed the apologies. Where possible he’s analysed and tried to sort out the science you and others have presented among all the flummery of pseudo-science and outrageous claims for aliens building ancient monuments. He has possibly overstated the possibilities of current science but did withdraw his claim for levers etc building Baalbek. If I may say so you undermine your own cases by presenting legitimate science and ideas with the likes of Velikosky’s garbage. You continually poke at Paul and fail to see that he hasn’t any problem with you and your regarding aliens “out there”. His main contention, as far as I can see, is that you have never presented hard facts to back your claims. Point of information. Posting links to You Tube and self referential sites that claim to show the evidence is not proof not matter how hard and loud you shout. Sorry to speak for you Paul but you sometimes seem slow to respond or unwilling to. becky says: November 15, 2008 at 9:14 AM martin–welcome to the “lunatic fringe”!!!! it’s not so lonely out here any more…i’ve grown VERY FOND of it!!! owain–there were many “different sermons” from many “different mounts”…to lay claims to only one serves a huge disservice and injustice to them all… on the financial front, espumpin–read an article this morning on “Alex Jones’ Prison Planet” website, written by Gerald Celente, CEO of Trends Research Institute…might be worth a look-see…our biggest enemy right now is the DENIAL that things have gone horribly wrong…he sees a financial collapse and a “revolution” of sorts coming…campaign promises CANNOT/WILL NOT not be kept…middle and lower class will not be happy–at all— …just some more food for thought… love and “good mojo” to you all… Owain says: November 15, 2008 at 9:27 AM Becky. WHat on earth are you talking about? Sermons on the mount?We’re talking science here NOT religion. For goodness sake get a grip. By all means talk religion if you must but there are plenty of sites where that can be discussed. I can’t see why you’re mixing that in with my defence of Paul. becky says: November 15, 2008 at 9:46 AM wain–just an afterthought–science is made up of “realms of possibility”…unknown variables…since history does repeat itself, and since none of us were here the previous time around, why should we not NOW consider ALL realms and ALL variables??? technology should not dwarf our imaginations…when things fall our of our realm of understanding, there remains a huge unexplained file called “what if”…for whatever reason, that file remains unopened and unexplored…those who want to explore it and want to know what’s in it become reclassified…where’s the science in that???? Owain says: November 15, 2008 at 9:48 AM Martin, Don’t fall into the trap of trying to manipulate the numbers in an attempt to find a time of eruption for 2012. There are no end of ways of doing it and the self-styled lunatic fringe . Becky above, will seize it and run claiming, “There you are it was evident all the time”. Owain says: November 15, 2008 at 9:54 AM Sorry Becky. You’re still not making any sense at all. Can’t see where you’re going with this. becky says: November 15, 2008 at 10:00 AM owain–my most sincere apologies–ir was martin who made reference to the sermon on the mounts–not you!!! please forgive me…a bad mistake on my part…at this time, i will redirect to martin… becky says: November 15, 2008 at 10:13 AM owain–all i’m saying is that science –for me–is not cut and dry—for me–all things should be considered. there are things that we know, things that we think we know, and things we cannot explain…for me, science cannot and does not explain away everything….there are greater forces working that are much bigger than ourselves…it is those forces that science will never explain…that’s all i’m saying…it is because of that fundamental belief that others feel i have no place on this thread…and that’s okay..i still maintain that everything is relative. Just a Thought says: November 15, 2008 at 10:17 AM Leah, I think you just did. Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 10:21 AM @ Owein You continually poke at Paul and fail to see that he hasn’t any problem with you and your regarding aliens “out there”. His main contention, as Owain, do you kow how to read? I mean, how can you say that Pual hasn’t said anything against our SUPPORTING, NOT PRESENTING ancient astronaut theories? Paul has constantly derised our theory, furthermore he resorted to labeling us “knuckledraggers” and the like. We didn’t make up the alien theory. We support it. Paul like, obviously yourself, don’t support this theory and thats fine. I can openly critisize science and you and Paul can critisize our theories but don’t sit there and tell us that Paul hasn’t been insulting, condescending and a total asshole about this because all you’re doing is categorizing yourself as an asshole. Owein have you had any scientifc theory published? Have you been credited with anything scientific? Has Paul? Yet you come in here and arrogantly offer derisive critizism about others published works. There are many authors that support the ancient astronaut theory. Are you prepared to prove here and now that you are better informed than all of these authors? Like Ian says…”I thought not” This site has an admin. If the admin feels that our post don’t belong here he/she has the authority and can make a decision to remove the post. I have not seen anything removed have you? Neither Paul nor yourself are the ultimate authority here and you NEED to learn what I’m sure your mothers taught you at a very early age. Respect. I’m sure that your mothers told you that this is something thats earned. Paul hasn’t even earned the respect I’ve shown so far. If you read the post you are aware that I have asked him on more than one occasion to desist the name calling and he justified it by proclaiming that his frustration at his inability to respect what others have put forth has not allowed him to govern himself accordingly. Don’t get me wrong Owein, you can write what you want here. But if you begin to generalize people due to their beliefs I personally will classify your ass with Hitler and any other overbearing tyrant in history. You call me a knuckledragger and I will tell you to kiss my ass bro, its that simple. You better go back and get it right. I don’t carae what you believe in but if you think its right to call me names or say that someone else is, then may man, you are wrong and I will address you thus. All over the world in every culture there are so called myths and scriptures and text that describe beings that came from above and interfered with man. You and Paul can choose to look further into what scholars have to say about this but you can’t dismiss anything. The nerve. The arrogance. Science changes. There was a time when it was scientifically proven and widely accepted that black men were inferior to white. The science you support is founded on trial and error like that. I imagine that should you and Paul been around back then you would have been spewing the same garbage that today we know is not true. Oh and Owein? How long ago was it that science PROVED that black men were inferior? Not nthat long ago huh? Don’t be stupid. Things change as we uncover (discover) what is hidden. Neither you nor Paul can claim to know all the myteries of this world. If you want to talk science then not you nor Paul can claim to understand 1/1000 of a percent the mysteries of this world. Nuff said, -R- becky says: November 15, 2008 at 10:24 AM sorry, leah–perhaps amit should hit me with one of his “pre-emptive strikes” SHUT UP, BECKY!!! Owain says: November 15, 2008 at 11:51 AM Oh dear Rico. What a pity you had to resort to name calling so soon. If this is how you greet newcomers to what is supposed to be a site where rational discussion takes place there is no hope for you. Also I think it is quite shocking that you try to take over a site that isn’t really geared to you and your irrational theories and THEN insult me and Paul and by inference the de-bunkers of alien intervention/Velikovsky/Von DaikenCharroux [thanks for that one Paul] etc. We WILL be back. Owain says: November 15, 2008 at 11:53 AM That should have been Daniken Leah says: November 15, 2008 at 7:07 PM To cause to forsake allegiance. To drive in a wedge….to split up ??? Also a possibility Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 12:29 PM There are so many things that science got wrong initially in the past that it is truly ignorant to accept everything at face value. Science also encompasses so many fields. Medicine, health, space, archeology, everything basically merits scientific analysis and classification. Sometimes years or decades go by and we acquire new data that proves that what was once thought to be scientically correct is in fact totally erroneous. I like science. I trust science. But the subject of which we speak namely ancient astronauts has not been given enough research. In the past when controversial theories arose there was always one idiot or another that derided the new theory. It is scientifically possible for Paul and Owein to be similar to the idiots of the past. Simply put. It is not impossible that ancient astronauts visited earth. With or without proof one cannot without reasonable doubt say that it is impossible. Owein, after living a life in whish you deride others beliefs because they don’t agree with your own. In the event that the other persons version proves to be correct what do you say? You offer a detraction? How can you detract the personal insults that you used while deriding that persons beliefs? Do you then call yourself a knuckledragger? Do you then consider yourself an diot? Do you begin to understand where I’m trying to lead you? Tolerance is important here. You shouldn’t even address a persons belief if you can’t do it without resorting to personal insults. Paul comes in here and asks for proof or something that lends credence to what we’re saying however he himself or his much ballyhoed science can admittedly offer no explanation for things here on earth such as the stones at Baalbek. None of you guys are better than anyone else here so try to comport yourselves in a correct manner or maybe you should consider leaving this site. Look at the last 20 post and see how many of them are about the earths geomagnetic reversal or look at the first 20 post and count the same. Owein there is no section in any library called “the garbage bin” is there? Its agood thing that we save books just to show how old science looked at things in the past and to see how far we’ve come. Read an old science book and see how erroneous the theories were. Then REMEMBER that the science of today is BASED on the foundation of the old science, in other words it learns from its mistakes and there were sooooo many!!! What was consideed science yesterday is considered stupidity today. How stupid do you want to appear tomorrow? Based on what I’ve read from the Bible and from translations by scholars of the stories in the sumerian tablets I choose to believe what I believe about ancient astronauts, Based on what I know about how world leaders and government works with reagards to sanctioning certain knowledge “for the protection of the masses” I choose to accept that there are too many unasnwered questions and too many varying stories describing ancient astronauts. Like I said before. Either Owein or Paul can tell us all how the sumerians came to have what science today describes an impossible “explosion of civilization” in the near east at the time in which it did. Then, being that you knuckleheads can’t expalin it, I’d like you also to take into consideration that according to you, not only did they have all these first, but had the time to create a whole realigion with a huge pantheon and stories about their created gods. You have got to be kidding me! The Piri Riis map alone should suffice as proof. This map has the shape of being drawn as if the view was from above, you can see this in the way the land shape takes a turn as if it were on a globe. Not only that but there is no ice on antartica. During living history there has always been ice there. When your science offers explanations for all of this unexplanable history you will have the proof that you are asking us for. You cannot scientifically discard the sumerian stories. Even if they were myths they offer insights of the peoples existance of the times. I could go looking in the web for a slew of past scientific errors. Should I do that? Do you want me to list 100 different idiotic thinkings that science backed in the past? You preach science with almost religious fervency as if science as the ultimate word on any matter. You put yourslef in the same shoes as the idiots that believed the initial erroneous stuff right? You guys are unreal, you learn science but you can’t even think for yourselves. Pathetic is a better way to describe people that think like you guys. Beacuse its easy to feel sorry for anyone that buys something hook line and sinker without first looking at all the facts. Tell me Owein, why are there human kings on earth? Who started kingship? Why are these families royal? Whats royal? How did this start? Go ask science and get back to me when you can. Silly boys with their microscopes. -Blessed, -Ricochet- Raul says: November 15, 2008 at 12:41 PM Hi people. Raul here. Been looking for some answers or for one answer. Some time ago 20years or so a friend who knew I liked ancient civilisations and unexplained stuff sent me a lines that she thought would interest me. Not sure where they were from but knowing my interest she said they were ancient – Hittite? Sumerian? Hebrew? Other? Ideas anybody? With white arms wrapped around me Locked in a cold embrace We slept for more than a 1000 years We awoke in the land of gold Where the king of the world was a being Who was man, woman and beast. The land boiled with strange flowers and the sun set in the east You and I were as the heroes of old Showing virtue and skill And we rode to a land at the edge of the world To a dark tower that rose upon a hill. Year on year the greedy tide Swelled from the west unchallenged And with impatient fret Gorged on the human banquet And many with mad eyes Stared gibbering at the white hot sky Foul birds and creatures circled above us Shadowing the living and the dead Southward to where the blood-red sun Sickens at noon in foul vapours We stumbled with the fear-tamed herds Of savage beasts while homeless birds fly overhead Southward, southward, southward. Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 12:42 PM Owein, you seem to be choosing what you read above. Start with your boy Pauls first post. Or better yet go back to my first post and see who started the name calling. You labeled yourself when you decided to say here that Paul wasn’t deriding our theories and that he was ok with his insults. He ADMITTED that he can’t stop the insults!! I don’t care if you came back or not dude. That was a bad impression of Arnold Schwarzennegar, nobody lauged. You’re a follower. Go on then, follow Paul. I look into the works of pioneers that have the balls to write what they believe knowing and disregarding what people like you and Paul think or say. Someday there will be a reconcilliation and we will then see who is right. Its all BS right now because you can’t prove nothing and I can’t prove nothing. But I have faith, how do you like that word? I have faith that we will know what happened back then and it will be shown that we had visitors. You can jump up and down all you like and accuse me of calling you names I don’t give a rats ass what you think to be frank. You’re just a shadow of a Paul. Come on dude, bring it, I’m here all day and I have plenty of pot and phillies and there aint no good college football games on TV so I’ll answer all of your rhetoric. Yeah baby!!! Cosmic, -R- Leah says: November 15, 2008 at 7:43 PM A famous gentleman, for both his works on aliens, and climate change, wrote not long ago, about “visitors”……. The announcement of their presence will cause a great cacophony (discord), which is what they want, and the more freedom we have to react, the better. They are here to experience something new, which is extraordinarily difficult for them to do. I assume nothing…..but lets ask…..would the world be worse off if people practiced self control ? Would the world not be better off if there was less emnity, crime and war, due to self control ? Less greed…even ? One might even avoid some unknown danger as a result. Leah says: November 15, 2008 at 7:53 PM Yup….ain’t that the truth….if practiced by all. Only with the applicable incentives, will all consider and possibly exercise self control. I hope they don’t choose only the hard way. Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 12:53 PM Owain, you didn’t include the most read of all the authors on ancient astronauts in that list. Sitchin. Oh wait!! You’re not familiar with his work are you? No you’re not. You haven’t read shit about ancient astronauts. You’re simply kissing Pauls ass because he has a british accent. Dude, I tried to deal with you guys on the level. You know. Put forth my thoughts and such. But you guys are what I call web bullies. You elevate yourselves and get all puffed up by insulting others and derding their opinions. You noticed how Paul took back his “levers and ramps ‘Ol boy” theory? The reason he put that forth in the first place was because he was uninformed. He said he took a look again and he recanted his original theory. The spontaneous way in which you animals for want of a better word answer the questions I put forth leads me to believe that you don’t reaserch. You offer your opinions. Your opinion stinks Owein. They stink of Paul. Get your own. When I post something at least use google so that you can offer a better rebuttal. You don’t want to appear so full of yourself that you come up with levers and ramps do you? Read Sitchin. Read all of his books. You’re in need of alternate imput. Keepin it real, -R- Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 12:56 PM Damn! Owain I’m sorry. Did you say “we’ll be back” as if speaking for Paul? LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!! Dude, dude, dude. thats truly pathetic. I’ve always walked alone. -R- Leah says: November 15, 2008 at 7:58 PM Dear Just a thought, It reminds me of an episode of a TV show….Humans are offered a vaccine that prolongs life very appreciably, and perfect health into the bargain. Looks like solid 24ct Gold. Problem was that the vaccine also contained a drug that caused sterility…… All that glitters is not gold. TV’s good for perspectives…..and there’s plenty of them. Be well, Leah Owain says: November 15, 2008 at 1:19 PM I can speak for myself. I don’t need Paul to speak for me and I doubt if he needs my backing. When I said we’ll be back I meant the forces of reason and mature, scientific debate will be back. Ancient gods and aliens , ancient or modern, can’t be discussed as they haven’t yet been proved. There WILL be others of my persuation contributing once they’ve done with the serious stuff on their own blogs/offices/labs etc and want a good laugh and a poke at you. I remind you once again; this is a site for the discussion of science not the blatherings of frightened little boys who take solace in myths, legends and escapist nonsense. You can take it as read that I too have a British accent. And to use a good old fashioned British word you wanker!. As you’ve read your bilble you’ll know the reference from Onan. Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 1:19 PM @ Owain Also I think it is quite shocking that you try to take over a site that isn’t really geared to you and your irrational theories and THEN insult me and Paul and by inference the de-bunkers of alien intervention/Velikovsky/Von DaikenCharroux [thanks for that one Paul] etc. We WILL be back. Owain see where you write that I insult you and Paul by the INFERENCE THE DE-BUNKERS. That shit don’t make no sense. Your english sucks or you’e semi literate take your choice. This is not a misspelling. It reflects that you’re an idiot. If you read the way you write then don’t bother reading Sitchin because you wouldn’t understand anything. Sorry dude, but you’re a dummy. You want to talk shit Owain, this thread is in english. Learn english first then, and we can continue discussing aliens and how you kiss pauls ass. You will notice that my earliers post were not worded as they are now. You guys have brought me down to your level but its ok. I came from this level as I was raised in NYC. I’m Puerto Rican with green eyes and light hair so I look like a white american or white european. In NYC I had to deal with older white american men that spoke to me in private about blacks referring to them using the N word. In other words. I’ve dealt with animals before. You guys aren’t going to chase me away and furthermore we can share insults to see who blinks first. If you don’t believe anything in the bible and you can’t accept the ancients text, then you are unequipped to debate the maya calendar or a 2012 doomsday/ new begining with me or anyone that is somewhat familair with these theories. You are simply missing info. Understand that the tie-in at the top of the threads subject to the earths geomagnetic reversal with 2012 links it with tha maya calendar as there is no such subject about a geomagnetic reversal using the 2012 date unless you include what some call prophesy. Idiots, get your shit together. See. I can sound just like Paul, wanna kiss my white ass too Owain? Silly rabbits, trix are for kids, -R- Owain says: November 15, 2008 at 1:21 PM What’s that doggerel Raul has submitted? Hittite? I should cocoa Leah says: November 15, 2008 at 8:24 PM We can and do look for effects that leave, say a finger print. We can’t analyse the upheaval that caused, say Fold Mountain ranges, but we can deduce. Geologically we can use depth of, and layers, to deduce periodicity of events. Ice core sections let us know what the atmosphere contained in the past. Really its a case of, the deeper one digs, the more one finds and learns about conditions, and is able to see historical effects. Owain says: November 15, 2008 at 1:26 PM If you would like to could back and read carefully what I actually said you will see that I wrote, ‘ Also I think it is quite shocking that you try to take over a site that isn’t really geared to you and your irrational theories and THEN insult me and Paul and by inference the de-bunkers of alien intervention/Velikovsky/Von DaikenCharroux [thanks for that one Paul] etc Notice the the ‘AND’ following ‘PAULl’ and the words ‘BY INFERENCE’. It makes all the difference. But don’t let that put you off. What is it the American say? Ah yes. Bring it on. Owain says: November 15, 2008 at 1:30 PM I meant of course to write, “If you would like to GO back” not “could back”. That plainly doesn’t make sense. Actually as it doesn’t make sense it might have been written by Rico or one of the other twits here. Leah says: November 15, 2008 at 8:30 PM Further, we have what we have to date, more in future, of Artifacts. The dating methods may not be accurate, but the Artifacts exist, they are tangible evidence of something. It is for our generation to decipher them….if not then the advice they convey, and accounts of past times and events, will not be at our disposal, which could be of great help and insight. Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 1:30 PM Owain are you seriously telling me that we can’t discuss aliens because they haven’t been proven to exist? Dude, I can say anything I want. I can say that the alien gazoooo in the flintstones cartoon made the earth. This does not give Paul the right to insult me. Not you nor Paul has the RIGHT to tell me what my opinion sholuld be or how to think. I don’t know how they raise you boys back in europe but here in America we can basically say anything we want and if someone calls us names usually theres a punch or two thrown. Perhaps you and Paul are smallish men that come here to insult people because no one can put their hands on you in here. I imagine that you’re compensating for your inability to use your insults face to face in real life with someone in your area that doesn’t agree with you. I can understand that. Nevertheless man, again you’re an idiot if you think I can’t post ancient astronauts here. You don’t own the site and you didn’t make the rules. In fact the only reason you even say that shit is because thats the path that Paul has taken. You’re a small man and a follower. Kiss my ass man. You cant tell me what to do. -Ricochet- Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 1:41 PM Dude, don’t try to fix that shit. It makes no sense no matter how you say it. I don’t know what the hell you were trying to say but the authors you mention are not de-bunkers of alien intervention they support it. Stop, stop it. You just dig yourself deeper. Owain do you know where your rights end? Your rights end where mine begin. If you have the right to post in here so do I. Any rights you have in here so do I. I have the right to an opinion and not you nor paul has the right to post personal insults. Now that both you and paul have waived these rights by acting in such manner it opens the way for me to call you whatever I may consider you and your opinions. Morons comes to mind. Animals with with blinders that have no peripheral vision. You only see whats in front of you. I didn’t start the name calling. I’m simply adopting and showing paul what happens when something that he started evolves. Paul is a puffed up proud of nothing idiot that thinks he shits roses and you are his Robin, a sidekick. Again, you can both kiss my ass. -Rico- Leah says: November 15, 2008 at 8:46 PM Many think in terms of something, being 1 thing that will happen in say 2012. Apart from the fact that there is always something happening, and not one after another, instead simultaneously, is that each thing or things, is the effect /effects of the last, and the cause / causes of the next. We are a tiny speck of dust, in our frame of reference, along with our other companions in this solar system, in comparison to the Milky Way. Life for Earth as life on Earth, is a rythmic succession of cycles, which can and do get altered or interupted, depending on our interactions with the influences of the other specks of dust, sometimes even interacting physically. Which is a description of everyday life really, just here, not in space. Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 2:01 PM Owain see how you refer to “other twits here”? Thats what I mean, you call people twits because they don’t share your beliefs. The word wanker don’t mean shit in america. It sounds stupid to us. You’re what we in america refer to as an asshole. This is the definition of your character as you present it here, an asshole. I mean, no one here has insulted you yet you call us twits. You’ve adopted that attitude from paul. I know that you at least have some sense. Not a lot, but some. That being the case I know that you realize how stupid you sound calling people names here for no reason other than you don’t agree with them. Its just a matter of time now for you to be gone from here. You should be embarrased at how genuinely stupid you sound. If you’re not embarrased or shamed by your nonsense then maybe the small amout of sense I gave you credit for is non- existant and you really are just a dummy. Either way I don’t expect you to last here. Do the honorable thing and save face. Leave now, one blind arrogant brit is enough for any blog don’t you think? Here Owain, I’ll give you some stuff to keep you busy in google ok so you don’t get too bored. You can also follow the blog just don’t post man. I’m helping you here ok? Here google this : Anunnaki Fallen Angels Elohim tablets found at nippur From there you can just follow links as they interest you. Stop embassing yourself and your countrymen/ladies. Its not fair. Go and sin no more, -R- Owain says: November 15, 2008 at 2:05 PM Read it again, fool. “…. THEN insult me and Paul, and by inference the de-bunkers OF of alien intervention/Velikovsky/von Daniken/Charroux….”. You see what I’ve said is insult me, Paul and the serious scientists who do the de-bunking of the people who say aliens have built whatever they’re supposed to have built. These people would include Velikovsky von Daniken etc. It’s not difficult to follow really. Although it obviously is but I don’t know how to put it any more simply for you to understand. We don’t usually do differentiated explanations. Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 2:09 PM Paul only post when hes at work. He’ll post again on monday. On weekends you won’t hear from him. Hes actually become a regular with this pattern. He post on weekdays during working hours. The man works for a living. I can accept paul and his attitude what drove me insane today is that paul post in here and actually shouts out for followers and all of a sudden he has a sidekick spewing garbage. This can be contagious and I felt that I had to confront the first assclown to answer pauls call. Paul I feel bad that it hadda be Owain that answered. Go ahead and keep shouting for someone to help address our nuttiness. But lets get you someone that makes sense and can think for him/herself. I’m sure you’ll agree that you got a bum deal with Owain here. I’m sure someone’ll show up that writes stuff thats more readable and makes some sense. If not I’ll just by inference de-bunkers of you all!!!! -R- Owain says: November 15, 2008 at 2:14 PM In Britain wanker means someone who plays with him/herself – a masturbator i.e. wastes ones time. I’ll let Paul do the explaining I’ll carry on with the debunking. How big is small in America? 6’2″ ex-rugby player? Is that big. Ricochet? Interesting name. Presumably from bouncing off the walls of your rubber room no doubt. Mammi says: November 15, 2008 at 2:16 PM Follow the yellow brink road, Follow,Follow,Follow,FollowFollow the yellow brick road……………..Dncagga-Jmarg-Xflpd. http://www.greatdreams.com/masters/ascended-masters.htm “What if”………………. What if your all right? What if your blinded by you sight? What if all you want to know, Stops the the growth, but keeps you growing old. Instead of being humble, And from learning by example. You choose to fight & scream, Not to agree to disagree, & help each other be free. Ninhursag Owain says: November 15, 2008 at 2:17 PM I’ll back later good people. Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 2:21 PM Owain, you still here son? You don’t know how to use Google? Do you have a little sister? Maybe she can help you? You don’t seem to understand rights. YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL ME WHAT TO BELIEVE. You keep believing in your wrong today right tomorrow science and I’ll believe what I want ok? I won’t call you names and I won’t refer to your beliefs as stupid ok? Can you reciprocate? Also explain to me why I can’t post here about ancient astronauts. Should we take a vote? If we have a vote and I lose I’ll leave. If I win you leave hows that? Maybe Paul will be interested in this also. You can get rid of one of the twits like this. Unless the people here say that you guys are the twits. Like we americans say, bring it. Interested in that bet Owain? I don’t care either way. I wouldn’t want to be a site that tells me what I can opine. So your call dude. We can call a vote. If the people here say I can’t post about ancient astronauts I leave but if they say I can…You leave….For good too. I gotta go shopping but I’LL BE BACK. I speak for myself. So when I come back I expect you should have had sufficient time to think about this. We can do it over a week or whatever, this way you can campaign. You tell me little man, Democratic, -R- Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 2:33 PM Owain, You’re a 6’2″ little man. Govern yourself dude. -R- Stephen. says: November 15, 2008 at 2:53 PM I’m actually enjoying all this name calling. Rico seems to have issues and it looks as though Owain and to some extent Paul have really got under his skin. I put this in just as a though – could he be unsure of his beliefs?? I’m looking through the previous posts to see what’s REALLY happening here. What I have seen it looks like it’s a draw so far between Owain and Paul and the people in Rico’s corner – Amit, Espumpin and Just a Thought. Not sure yet which side Martin is on though I have my thoughts. Good fun. Stephen. says: November 15, 2008 at 3:22 PM I may take sides but not just yet. Any idea where the rest of the respondents are. I thought they wowuld have something to say. Where’s Martin, Global Scanner? Where’s Raul? His poem/story was interesting, sort of. Stephen. says: November 15, 2008 at 3:44 PM Isn’t American football where they scrimmage and one guy comes right up behind another guy and puts his hands between the others legs? V homo-erotic. Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 3:54 PM This is really very simple. I offer the theory that there were ancient scientist base on what I’ve read from certain authors. They don’t believe this because they claim theses a lack of evidence. In other words they ask me to offer proof. They don’t seem to understand that the lack of evidence isn’t evidence in their favor. Its just undiscovered. The only issue I have is that these guys seem to think its ok to call us names because of what we believe. If anyone follows the post they will find me asking several times to stop the name calling. At this time I figure that the only language that they understand is the one that they’re speaking…Insults…So I speak to them in insults. Stephen if you say that you don’t share the ancient alien theory its ok. I may direct you to some things considered possible evidence but if you come back without looking at what I directed at you and debunk me erroneously the way Paul did then dude. Its really simple isn’t it? At that point my position is to ask you to kiss my ass. After you talk all this know it all shit and then you take a real look and come back and tell me that your alledged theory was wrong what am I to say? I say you’re fulla crap don’t I? Take a look at the post. You’ll find idiotic condescending theories without research thrown out there by Paul who later recants. This is because these people talk without knowing shit. They talk about the stars and yet they know nothing about the history of the early civilizations. The we have Owain. If you actually study the thread you’ll find this lackey is trying to ingratiate hinself with paul as if by doing so paul would in return grant him cybersex or soemthing. Its retarded. Its like me saying Stephen you don’t know what you’re talking about. Theres no such thing as neutral take a stand you wimp wanker. Makes no sense does it? You do what the hell you want I have no right to tell you how to think. I stand by my beliefs alone. I don’t need anyone here or elsewhere to stand behind me egging me on. Its a matter of “levers and ramps ol’ boy” You tell me Stephen, would I be correct in telling you what you can write here with regards to a 2012 prophesy of an end time either by axis shift, polar shift, meteor, or anything that I want? is it your right to tell me to go somewhere else to post about these things? Better yet Stephen. Do this. Look at the subject matter at the top of the page before you read the thread and then come back and tell me post something about the actual subject matter. See where that leaves you man. Expanatory, -Rico- Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 4:02 PM You know theres a great fighter from Wales name of Joe Calzaghe. I’m an avid boxing fan. This guys is going down in history as one of the best pound for pound fighters in the history of boxing. That being said. I don’t know anything else about Wales. -R- Stephen. says: November 15, 2008 at 4:06 PM You may be interested to know that a Welshman, Richard ap Meurig, was the first westerner to land in America. Hence the name America from Meurig. I’ll get back to you about what you said previous to the Calzaghe post Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 4:10 PM Stephen, the superbowl which is the championship game in american football. The superbowl holds like 9 of the first 10 spots in record breaking TV audience. In other words when they play the superbowl. The world stops to watch. I don’t see anything about a Rugbybowl. I coudn’t even name a rugby team. Thats just my culture or lack thereof. But I know football and I know the league. And theres nothing comparable and I nclude major league baseball. The average american football team is valued at a little bit under a billion dollars. Soccer (notice I don’t call it football) sucks to me. Its boring. Its usually a 0-0 game and I feel like I just kissed my sister. I may watch world cup finals but thats it. Boxing, american football, and basketball in that order. The rest is filler. -Rico – Raul. says: November 15, 2008 at 4:12 PM I had hoped that somebody would have made response to my post instead of silly argeuements. Lots of negative energy and vibration here at present. Not good things to happen. Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 4:15 PM See I didn’t know that about a welshman. But Stephen, we shouldn’t be posting about this because we have to post about the geomagnetic crap remember? Calzaghe is a hero in Wales today. This I know. That man can run for office over there and win. -R- Raul. says: November 15, 2008 at 4:21 PM all I see is messages about boxing and football and basket ball. I would like answers to questions posed. This is a site where questions asked and answeered yes????? Decon 101 says: November 15, 2008 at 4:23 PM Right on Raul my man. answeres to the questions guys. C’mon!!!!! Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 4:24 PM Basically the subject matter should be is anything natural going to happen that could have been known to the maya and caused them to make a calendar with the natural end date in mind. Hence the 2012 date for a geomagnetic shift. It could be anuthing though. The maya didn’t nessesarily predict catastrphe on 2012 via a geomagnetic shift. In fact they say in their text that this age will end by fire. Go figure. I like the volcano theory better as an end time event. This would corroborate what Raven has bought up about supervolcanoes and their impending eruptions in the very near future. All this by or before 2012 which would represent the begining of a new age. This is all legend. But with the astounding artifacts these ancient peoples left behind I’m under the impression that their scriptures should be studied a little more diligently. Its like the movie close encounters of the third kind when the french are in india and the people are chanting that sound. They ask the people from where the sound came and thousands of hands pointed at the sky all together. Look at where the hands are pointing is all I ask. -R- Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 4:26 PM Ask away, someone will try to provide an answer if possible. Sorry boys, you got caught up in this crap. I apologize. -R- Raul says: November 15, 2008 at 4:34 PM I wondered where the poem/story I mentioned that my friend sent me could be from. How ancient is it? She said may be Hittite. Perhaps it is old as that or from Sumerian people that are spoken of here. Lots of clever writers send ideas to this group so I am thinking there is someone here who will tell me and others who said it first. I may ask about the stars and cosmologies later. Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 4:40 PM Ok Raul. thos are the lyrics to a song called Sleep Of A Thousand Tears Lyrics by Hawkwind. you can just click this to confirm. http://www.actionext.com/names_h/hawkwind_lyrics/sleep_of_a_thousand_tears.html -R- Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 4:55 PM That was easy, glad to be of help. You know the sumerians didn’t write good things about their gods. They wrote a lot about the way these gods treated man. It wasn’t until much later that the Hebrews re-wrote the sumerian stories and introduced new characters and twisted the sumerian epics to make it look as if man was the bad one and god was good. They also created monetheism. In other words they attributed the sumerian stories about what the gods did and credited all to one god and called him Yahweh. Pretty funny really. Judaism is the base religion of Christianity and apparently Islam being they too share a monetheistic system. The first epics before the bible before the hebrew language were from sumer. Anyway this all ties in with ancient races worldwide and the maya had their own epics. All of these races that went before the monetheistic religions credited their gods with everything that was good that we found as they taught them everything. This is why I believe that the maya calendar ending 2012 is something of a sign left to us by these beings. Say what you want just don’t call me names or use derogatory comments to dispell my belief and its all good. I can offer lots more detail but lets see what comes up. Don’t drink and Drive, -R- Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 5:00 PM I don’t even go as far as to bring up the planet of crossing which the sumerians wrote about as the origin of these beings because that opens the door to planet x. It was called Nibiru in sumerian which is supposed to mean ” to cross” or something to do with crossing. This is also the reason that Sitchin attributes a 3600 year eliptical orbit to this “planet of crossing” . This in Sitchins readings was the cause for the deluge that destryed the first men and left only the biblical Noah and his ark mates. I’m not making this stuff up, its out there. -R- Mr. Natural. says: November 15, 2008 at 5:00 PM Hi guys. Just thought I’d drop in as I was surfing. Picked up the news about this site and the tussle that’s going on here elsewhere on the net and thought I’d see what all the fuss was about. Wow Rico. You are one feisty cat. If I may chip here, and please tell me to keep my opinions to myself, but I think you are taking on the man in Owain. He’s a real heavy dude. I’ve knocked around the net for almost as long as its been going man, and the planet for even longer, and Owain and Paul seem to be the real deal, ya dig??!! Yeh??? I’m not saying I agree with everything they say but shit man, they are packing some heavy science and heavy comments. I’ve seen them dealing in other places. Get me? They are MEAN muthas. I’m telling you guy you don’t want to mess with them. Not trying to scare you bro just give a word to the wise. You may be a major contributor here and feel so sure of your stuff but sometimes keeping your own council and, as they said during your war of independence, keep your powder dry, [your day may come] but these guys are serious movers and shakers. They know stuff, dig?? Off somewhere else now. Could be back soon but a moving target is harder to hit or at least pin down. Laterzzzzzz Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 5:08 PM Oh well now we know, these guys are ringers and lovers from way back!! Thats cool man, thanks for the heads up. As you can see though. Already our “heavy hitter” Paul has been caught with his pants around his ankles with his now infamous “levers and ramps ol’ boy”. Mr. Natural I’ve dealt with bullies before. In my experience theyre mostly bags of wind. You just can’t let them get away with shit. Let them explain the crap the write. Paul is the smart one of the two. Owain is just a 6′ 2″ lackey with no balls. Aparently he evolved from an Enki creative error. bad DNA you know? Follower status and all that, chip chip and here here and all that crap. Read my post. I asked them both to kiss my ass. They ain’t that bad. They seem to be under the impression that a current lack of evidence is proof of something. Silly boys. I ain’t afraid of no ghost. -R- Raul. says: November 15, 2008 at 5:11 PM Thank you. But what is Hawkwind? Was this something from the the time of Sumer? I did not understand the link. All I saw was some words and someone playing acoustic guitars Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 5:16 PM Raul, This is a copy and paste of Hakwind man. Hawkwind are a British rock band, one of the earliest space rock groups. Their lyrics favour urban and science fiction themes. Notable fantasy and science … See? No sumerian, its just a song man. Sorry if you feel let down. -R- Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 5:22 PM See that Owain, it seems you and your web lover Paul have some kind of notoriety for going around talking shit and bullying people. Mr. natural has some kind of respect for you guys, says that you’re very knowledgeable. I haven’t seen shit in here proving that. All I seen was immaturity on the part of Paul and you kissing his ass man. Le me ask you something Owain. Did you agree with Paul on the levers and ramps theory? I bet you would have though given the chance. You’re a lame wanker at that. I haven’t started making you guys look stupid yet. I’ll let you do most the work there. -R- Mr. Natural. says: November 15, 2008 at 5:29 PM Whoa Rico. All I know about these guys is they’re heavy duty scientists. I mean HEAVY DUTY. They are into all kinds of things. It appears they’re not working for the same organisations, work together or even know each other personally but have similar areas of expertise. From what I’ve been able to ascertain it’s weird stuff. They also have very legitimate interests such as astronomy, geology and so on. Again from bits here and there that I’ve worked out, been sent, seen and hints they’ve dropped, probably accidentally, they really are the real deal. They’re not as dumb as you might hope they are. Do not be fooled by what you call their stupidity. They are far from it. Are they dangerous? Not for me to say but you could get a real scorching. I’ve seen them at work in places on the net usually solo but sometimes with others. Never seem them together on the net before though. One contact I have has seen a couple of members of their loose association in real life-action at a conference, her verdict. Very scary, very powerful, very scientific as in hard hard science and very, very well informed. As you say, just a heads up. But I’m away now. Perhaps check in tomorrow just to see what responses come in. Be safe. Be calm. Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 5:47 PM Mr. Natural, I appreciate your concern. These guys have run into the wrong person in me. I’m not tooting my own horn but I’m an old man and I treat people not according to titles but by how they carry themselves. I don’t know what they know and I don’t really care what they think they know. I know what I know. I know that the Bible exist and you know this too. I also know that the Bible has been around for longer than Owain and his butt buddy Paul. I know what I believe and I respect others faith but I won’t treat these guys with respect because they have titles. Respect has to be earned. You know this as well as anyone. As for science, man, let me tell you something, where I’m from there are many different insects. We have boll weevils here. When you look up the boll weevil it says that science cannot understand how this insect flies. The way it is built scientifically it should not fly. So much for science, this bug flies all over the place. Thats one. Heres another. You all know about these crystal skulls. If not you can go google the shit. Anyway, according to science, “they can’t exist”. Yet there they are aren’t they? So now we know that there are things in this world that science claims cannot exist. So whats new? Pauls argument that ancient astronauts don’t make sense scientificall\y means the same to me a sciences’ opinion of the crystal skulls or the flight of the boll weevil. Thats science. I’m not going to go the route that science can’t explain god because it can. It will, someday science will prove that god or the gods were actually ancient astronauts. See? I believe in science. I just don’t believe when someone says that soemthing is impossible and uses science as an escape for their lack of data. Mr. Natural, what site did you hear about this tussle if I may ask? I’m just curious because Stephen came in here saying the same thing. If you don’t want to say its ok man, I understand. You can read the whole thread and you will find that Paul came in here like a storm insulting about 5- 6 people. Thats not smart, thats stupid. I don’t care how many degrees he has, he can kiss my ass with that shit. I ain’t havin it. I’ll keep posting all I want until one of those bitches complains to Ian and I get booted or something. Long live EA, -Ricochet- Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 5:50 PM Mr. Natural you are always entitled to your opinion. In here your opinion is like a vote. Don’t let any asshole take that away from you. Some people think that because you don’t think like them you can’t post here. You can say whatever you want man. If you insult me we trade insults but you can say whatever. -R- Just a Thought says: November 15, 2008 at 5:53 PM Ricochet Next thing you know O boy or pj will be telling you; “my dad is bigger than your dad” Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 6:25 PM Does anyone realize that the biblical stories were used by scholars and archeologist to discover the ancient cities in the stories. At one point they were thought to be myhical too. Intelligence is a beautiful thing. Excercise your mind. Don’t let anyone tell you that you’re an idiot for having a thought. These guys, Owain and Paul NEED to read translated sumerian tablet stories and read what the scholars have to say about the the much later biblical parallels in order to fom a better informed opinion. You can’t start deriding the opinions of others when you’re not informed as to how that person came to his/her conclusion. Paul has been weighed and found wanting in this regard. When all the cards are in even if you still don’t believe in ancient astronauts at the very least you will be more suitably informed on the subject. There are so many things to look into. Vietnam, China, Iraq, Iran, Africa, South America, Mexico, and so many other countries have similar;y built structures and share the basically the same stories from a time when sea travel wasn’t practiced with any regualrity. Can you scientifically call this coincidence? What happens when people have a debunking mentality it spreads and this actually is counterproductive to research. On the surface if you asked for some kind of funding to study the possibility of ancient astronauts you’d be ridiculed. This would be due to an established Paul like mentality. Like I said thats on the surface. What doesn’t know won’t hrt Paul. Tis is the reality beacuse there are studies on this. They receive funding and there are more than one group pursuing this field from varying governments. Someday when an announcement is made then Paulians and the Owainians will accept because science told them so. Fun stuff!! -R- Just a Thought says: November 15, 2008 at 6:31 PM -R- Yes I have been watching the “floor show” Owains last name may be Jones which would explain; Paul Eatin’ Jones. Just a Thought As for the Baalbek stones all I can say is they had to have “help”. The scientific approach of course, Trained Dinosaurs! Just as much valid as levers and ramps. Maybe the scientific Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 6:31 PM Good fight coming on tonight between Jeff Lacy and Jermaine Taylor. Must see that. Its about 2 hrs away so you guys are stuck with all the crap I’m writing for today. I’m not gonna lie. I may have offended some of my pals in here and when I get the feedback I may bow out gracefully and leave the site. We’ll see. Looks like I’m the only knucklehead here on a saturday night. -R- Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 6:34 PM Nah dude!! they borrowed mammoths from their egyptian neighbors!!! -R- Just a Thought says: November 15, 2008 at 6:44 PM PJ and O When dealing with the unknown- caution is a well advised approach. You boys have no clue who you think you are addressing- Caution IS a well advised approach. Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 6:56 PM Nah man, I already said. I ain’t nobody special. I’m just a charlatan with a PC. I’m not gonna come in here and exalt myself or have a pal of mine come in here and tell everyone that I’m the last Coke in the desert. I’m just another Rico out here like everyone here thats excercising his right to be heard. Thats all. I ain’t no idiot. I ain’t no dummy. I’m not ignorant nor am I deformed in any way. I am healthy. I play ball. I smoke weed. I don’t think I’m better than anyone I’m just one of you guys. Some people come in here and…Well….What can I say….They think they’re gods or some shit. I’m just a soul whose intentions are good!! Oh Lord!! Please don’t let me misunderstood!! Yeah!! Nice song!! -R- Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 7:00 PM Well, I hate to say it but…Thats all folks!! See you guys tomorrow!! As Her Royal Majesty Queen Leah would say!! Be Well, I love you Leah!!! -R- Just a Thought says: November 15, 2008 at 7:49 PM Self control if practiced by all Just a Thought says: November 15, 2008 at 7:59 PM I would do well to practice s c . If the changes of our environment happen on a “regular basis” like once every million years, how would we recognise the pattern as none of us have been around that long? Anyone? Martin says: November 15, 2008 at 9:18 PM Can I post? Now 4 times no seen Martin says: November 15, 2008 at 9:21 PM Leah, link to abydos at members tripod com, cannot post link comment disappears interesting reasoning- can find it with google Martin Martin says: November 15, 2008 at 9:25 PM Stephen If you haven’t figured it out, I’m on the side of logic and reasoning. I’m not on a side of this person or that. Sometimes Ricoh says something reasonable and I agree, sometimes Paul. or any of the others If two dogs get into a dog fight both of them get hurt, it doesn’t matter who wins, both will have their scars. Martin says: November 15, 2008 at 9:27 PM Becky, in the new testament, I assumed it belongs to the Bible, Jesus gave the sermon on the mount. like do not judge, so you will not be judged, if somebody hits you on the right cheek offer him your left cheek and so on.. Martin says: November 15, 2008 at 9:34 PM its midday nov 16th to the post of debauch on 2nd nov. the group of debauch probably have already packed up and waiting for the alien ship to take them away? But the alien ship did not arrive. Have they been tricked by the aliens? I feel sorry for these guys. their prophecy of something will happen that we will remember in 2 weeks. Somebody has a clue what is was? Martin says: November 15, 2008 at 9:38 PM sorry– I seem sometimes become a bit sarcastic— sorry Martin says: November 15, 2008 at 10:08 PM Mayans, Sumerians, Egyptians, they seemded to have knowledge that is for the moment beyond our grasp. Until we find some hard evidence we only can speculate what they wanted to tell us. All these cultures and Indian, Chinese, Greek and Roman in their sagas mentioned Gods and celestial beings. If we do not believe in Gods or celestial beings or angels (the german catholic church did some research on angels and they said they found some evidence) then the only explanation for us would be aliens. Or anything else? The Lord Buddha told us that there are 30 different realms of heavenly beings, some have form, some do not. In Thailand it is known that some human beings are being able to see and converse with these heavenlyy beings. So I am more likely to equate the stories of the Old civilazations with these kind of beings, than with Aliens. But it does not mean that I completely disbelieve in Aliens. They surely exist. If they have visited us? I do not rule it out, but I would prefer more hard evidence. Because of the knowlege of the ancient civilazation, maybe they knew more than we do right know. But maybe the thread is not coming from outside the world but from the inside, a very likely factor being the humans getting worked up and throwing bombs at each other, other posibilities could be earth quakes and volcanic eruptions, very deadly would be a supervolcanic eruption… … just getting back to doomsday 2012 .. but maybe its not 2012 but 24th dec of 2016? Reasoning: my feelings of guts. Proof? No proof whatsoever Martin says: November 15, 2008 at 10:22 PM if we on this blog cannot converse in a civilized manner, calling us names and so on, and we call ourselves eduacated and the cream of the top, then the other part of human beings, that argue with knifes guns and atomic bombs certainly can give a devastating blow to our planet earth. I would like us all to have a bit of self control and act as human beings not as dog and I admire Neil for his cool comments even if he is attacked in a dog manner, he still keeps reacting as a British Gentleman -cool and reasonable. (suggest reading his replies to some heavy dogbitings) Be all well Martin Martin says: November 15, 2008 at 10:24 PM hopefully see some of you this evening, e.g. in 6 hours time. Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 10:47 PM God or gods are by nature alien as none has ever originated on this planet in any legends. Some had sons by earth women and these were considered semi-gods. But actual gods. None born on earth, Therefore alien by nature. Wether in story or actual. As for angels, the word angels comes from the greek angelinos which came to us sfrom a much later language. I like to stick with the original first pantheon and their writings and stelae. You will find looking at the sumerian tablets picturing depictions of some gods with wings. The wing appear as attached not a part of the actual body of the person. Like something mechanical. They mentioned what translates into “celestial boats” as what the god traveled in. Its really astounding. I don’t understand at all how anyone can discard this stuff. Its all pre-biblical written in pre semitic languages. Including the first known written language the cunieform scripture of the sumerians. There are so many many things that add up to this hypothesis that it cannot in good conscience be dismissed by any one individual. Thats my gut feeling on that topic. there is simply no explanation offered as to how these early people discovered the math and the astrological knowledge that they proved to posses. Along with this there were so many first “first” discovered by these early human ancestors that it boggles the mind and science cannot offer an explanation. These people had the first hybrid wheat and barley!! These crops originated there!! I mean….Really. These people obviously weren’t idiots. Some re-thinking about their myths is surely in order. It don’t matter because like I said there are serious scientist working at sites as we write here and based on the writings left behind there are still things out there that haven’t been found. Change is the only constant. -R- Ricochet says: November 15, 2008 at 11:01 PM Later angels depicted by christians became mystical beings. Spirits in nature. There is a very real debate in the theological circles about wether or not the sons of god mentioned in genesis 6 came down as spirits and took human shape or not. I looked at all this crap before I came across the sumerian stuff. There were no angels the way we were raised to imagine them. Religion as a whole has been tampered with long ago. It was manipulated by oportunistic people long after the so called gods were gone and kingship on earth is to this day still exploited. Kings and Queens in the year of our Lord 2008. Whats that all about? Kings and Queens originated in biblical stories as far as we knew. But again the true origin lies in the sumerian legends. Its basically the same as kingship was said in both to have been transfered from heaven. The word King comes is related to Kin, Family. The first kings were gods then after came the semi-gods. These were the first kings in the oldest legends availbale to mankind as an explanation. So what then? The kings of today still have this kinship? Its a disgrace whats happened. This is all becoming common knowledge. Fun stuff! -R- Leah says: November 16, 2008 at 8:05 AM Dear Martins, But maybe the thread is not coming from outside the world but from inside. Is this reference to this blog / thread, or to DNA ? Leah says: November 16, 2008 at 8:33 AM Dear Owain, Every so often I restate, that I have not written anything re my belliefs. The one I stated in a post to Paul, was as an example, of what if I chose to believe that etc etc. I’m interested in more posts such as your 5.49am post of today. Leah Martin says: November 16, 2008 at 1:53 AM Ricoh to there is simply no explanation offered.. You like mystical stuff. Read Edgar Caseys account on Atlantis and you will see that there is a very simple and reasonable explanation for all this. Ships, airplanes, submarines all existed at a time 25,000 years ago and here on Earth. The civilazation on Atlantis existed for about 50,000 years. Our history does not even cover 10,000 years. 2nd read the accounts on the Lord Buddha going to the heavenly realms and teaching there the heavenly beings. These beings do not have wings they float in gracefully like cotton balls. (Biography of Acharn Mun) The account of the Lord Buddha with his disciple Moggallana, going to the highest heaven and just to show the highest God there that he does not live eternally he made his palace tremble. After this and a bit of discussion this God realized, that also his life as a God has a limit and he has to be reborn somewhere else. This is funstuff and gives some food for consideration Be well Martin Martin says: November 16, 2008 at 2:02 AM we take pictures in normal light, infrared, UV(?), has someone taken pictures in the blue spectrum? It could be very interseting. Maybe we could detect some of these beings from other realms, like ghosts or devas that do not have such a dense material bodies? Leah says: November 16, 2008 at 9:12 AM Dear Martin, I took a look at tripod.com. This is an example of what may be gleaned, if assumption, and preference, along with belief, is set asside. Hence the phrasing of my question. I use the word hoax, only in order to draw attention to the question. Many have a predisposition to continue to believe in their chosen preference, for several reasons, in spite of further feasible possibiliteis being presented. Leah Leah says: November 16, 2008 at 9:47 AM The earlier reference to the Man cured of Aids. Why not ? E.g. A fundamental and important difference between Programmed natural cell death, Apoptosis, and cell death having been killed, was understood whilst taking a bath. Many medicines, are discovered to be much more effective, by accident if you like, on a condition other than the one or ones they were developed to effect. Leah says: November 16, 2008 at 10:16 AM Within the frame of reference and context, that is perceived by the many as being a person, and time e.g. Messier, would not have observed any objects, light from which had ceased to reach Earth before the first moment he began observing, nor the light of which that would reach Earth after his final observation. Within the frame of reference and context that Time is perceived to be…..Time is dependant on the speed of Earth’s rotation, and orbit of the Sun. Therefore Time is dependant on speed, and is not a constant ? Could “The end of Time” be, a change in perception, wrather than an END on any physical plane ? The end of one perception, and the beginning of another perception….one of a truer nature ? Leah says: November 16, 2008 at 10:28 AM Each owns the copyright, to their posts. Owain. says: November 16, 2008 at 5:49 AM Let me state for the record. 1)The bible exists. From my understanding and things I learned at school and elsewhere the OT is a collection of prophesies by leaders of the tribes of Israel generally concerned with the coming of the Hebrew messiah. Certain texts e.