Behind the Scenes of NASA’s Upcoming MMORPG

by Ray Sanders on September 12, 2011

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Astronaut: Moon, Mars and Beyond. Image Credit: Project Whitecard International 2011

These days, nearly every game company is trying to get their fingers in the MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game) pie. Given the past successes of games like Ultima Online and Everquest and the current success of games like EVE Online and World of Warcraft, it’s no surprise that companies want try to create the next “killer app” of the MMORPG market.

One such game company that will be launching a new game is the company partnered with NASA to develop a space-based MMORPG for the space agency.  Having raised nearly $40,000 in pledged funding via kickstarter, the company aims to start beta testing their offering some time next year.

So what does this new MMORPG do differently that will attract and retain paying customers? What makes Astronaut: Moon, Mars and Beyond different from say, EVE Online, Star Trek Online, or Star Wars Galaxies?

When a game developer becomes associated with a “big-name” property,  expectations from both fans and developers can be quite high. Despite securing a license to create a game based on the Stargate franchise, a game development company never released the game and eventually ended up in bankruptcy. Star Trek Online, despite being one of the most anticipated MMORPG franchises went through two developers and when finally released had less than stellar sales.  Of course, many fans of MMORPG’s are all too familiar with the myriad issues that plagued Star Wars Galaxies.

Not all online games are destined for failure. Some games build up players steadily over time and retain an extremely loyal fan base. In some cases, “slow and steady wins the race” is a reality for some game companies. So, what does it take to build a successful online game franchise?

Concept Art of a Future Astronaut: Image Credit: Project Whitecard International 2011

In the case of the upcoming NASA MMORPG, Daniel Laughlin, project manager of NASA’s Learning Technologies cited research over the past decade indicating that games have tremendous potential to enhance learning. Laughlin stated, “The goal of the MMO project is to tap into the power of games to inspire and promote learning specifically in areas of science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM)”. Laughlin also added, “Based on the existing literature as well as my own experiences gaming, an MMO was the logical choice for a game project for NASA.”

What Laughlin believes to be of benefit to his idea is that a MMO gives the ability to continually update, adjust and expand a game – keeping players engaged over long periods of time.

Laughlin also mentioned the success of a NASA proof-of-concept game, Moonbase Alpha, as an encouraging sign of interest in a NASA-themed MMORPG, citing over 400,000 downloads. Laughlin also added “It is short proof of concept piece. Just a 20 minute mission, but it was built to prove to NASA that we could build a commercial quality game that uses NASA content – the lunar architecture – and is fun and inspirational.”

Moonbase Alpha Screenshot: Image Credit: NASA Learning Technologies

How does a promising proof-of-concept demo become a full-fledged online game?

Laughlin’s office solicited development partners to build the game under a non-reimbursable space act agreement (Meaning NASA is partnered with the game developer, but no funds change hands). The Astronaut: Moon, Mars and Beyond team was selected through a competitive process and has signed an agreement with NASA. The development team has to raise development funds on their own and NASA will provide subject matter experts along with education and evaluation experts to assist the team. Currently, the development team has raised nearly $40,000 via their kickstarter page.

Astronaut: Moon, Mars and Beyond. Image Credit: Project Whitecard International 2011

Khal Shariff, CEO of Project Whitecard is equally optimistic about Astronaut: Moon, Mars and Beyond, stating, “We view this project as an almost sacred opportunity to engage new and current generations of science fans, those who are forever looking outward, with a vision for space exploration.”

When asked specifically about the fund raising efforts via Kickstarter, Shariff mentioned “It means all of the world to the people making this project happen, and it’s a hell of a deal, especially when you see that a $30 bid will send two licenses to a school and one to yourself.” Shariff also added, “More than this, it shows that Astronaut: Moon, Mars and Beyond, has honest, people-driven roots and will succeed or fail on its own merits.”

Astronaut: Moon, Mars and Beyond. Image Credit: Project Whitecard International 2011

Shariff’s goal is a very solid game mechanic that rewards players for competing in areas of STEM learning and mentioned that one essential gameplay mechanic is a combination of gear and crafting. One other game play mechanic of quests are standard fare in many online games. In the case of Astronaut: Moon, Mars and Beyond, the quests are missions that fit into the larger storyline. Shariff was tight-lipped as to what, if any protagonists are present in the game, stating: “We have protagonists in the game, and I won’t say much about them, because I don’t want to spoil the opening scene of Chapter One.”

On the topic of chapters, Shariff mentioned plans for a future expansion to allow manned travel to destinations beyond Mars and the asteroid belt, even though in first chapter, players will have visited said destinations with unmanned missions.

Based on information presented by the development team, it does appear they will be putting forth considerable effort to fulfill Laughlin’s goal of a fun, educational and infinitely playable game. Shariff concluded with: “We want you to sit down and curl up with one session and have a feeling like you had when you read the best short science fiction stories, especially like those of Clarke. There is plenty of adventure to plumb.”

If you’d like to learn more about NASA’s Learning Technologies program, visit: http://www.nasa.gov/offices/education/programs/national/ltp/research/index.html

You can download the Moonbase Alpha game at: http://ipp.gsfc.nasa.gov/mmo, and you can learn more about Astronaut: Moon, Mars and Beyond at: http://www.astronautmmo.com

Ray Sanders is a Sci-Fi geek, astronomer and space/science blogger. Visit his website Dear Astronomer and follow on Twitter (@DearAstronomer) or Google+ for more space musings.

About 

In addition to being a published astronomer specializing in variable stars, Ray Sanders has blogged for Universe Today, and The Planetary Society blog, among others. He runs his own blog, Dear Astronomer, teaches classes for CosmoQuest, and is a NASA/JPL Solar System Ambassador.

Ray Fowler September 12, 2011 at 1:46 PM

As much as I love NASA and astronomy, I can tell you right now that any MMO run by NASA is going to fail badly and embarrassingly. The MMO gamer community is incredibly spoiled by low difficulty, low cost, eye-popping graphics, rapid content development and black-market cheating.

It’s a brutal market for developers, costs millions to start up, and results in games being watered down as much as possible to stay profitable.

Ray Sanders September 12, 2011 at 2:55 PM

The game isn’t being ran by NASA per se. Technically the game is being built/ran by the developer. Technically speaking, it doesn’t take all that many paying players to keep an MMO running. Problem is all the execs look at the phenomenal success of WOW and try to do everything they can to re-create that formula. There are dozens of MMO’s with regular updates and good player support with less than 50k subscribers.

IVAN3MAN_AT_LARGE September 12, 2011 at 9:06 PM

The game that I like to play is Typographical/Grammatical Terminator…

At the tenth paragraph, in the fourth line, you’ve misspelled competitive; in the fifth line, there should be a semi-colon before and a comma after “however”.

Ray Sanders September 12, 2011 at 9:59 PM

Thanks Ivan. Still haven’t hired a replacement spellchecker. Since you like challenging games, how about this one: http://www.worldslargestpuzzle.com (24,000 pieces) ;-)

IVAN3MAN_AT_LARGE September 12, 2011 at 11:21 PM

That reminds me of the Laurel and Hardy short film, Me and My Pal, centered around everybody’s preoccupation with a jigsaw puzzle!

Andrew September 12, 2011 at 1:52 PM

MMORPGs are great, but creating a good one is incredibly hard to do. The king of them, World Of Warcraft, is an incredible engineering feat, even disregarding the artistic design.

Ray Sanders September 12, 2011 at 2:58 PM

There’s many more high-quality MMO’s in the market than you’d think. Too many game critics think the number of subscribers a game has directly correlates to the quality of the game.

Justin Hartberger September 13, 2011 at 8:33 PM

WoW isn’t really a feat. Blizzard simply did as all MMO’s that are labelled “WoW Clones” do now, and copied the ideas they thought were the ‘best’ from the previous generation of MMO’s (EQ,UO,AC,DAoC), slapped the Warcraft brand on it, and let their fanbois eat it up. I love how proponents for that game love to forget how it was originally mocked for just being an EQ clone and now every standard-model MMO is labelled as WoW’s clone instead. As everyone who’s watched Multiplicity knows…a copy of a copy can never be as good as the original…which is probably why so many of the newer generations of MMO’s fall flat.

The fanatacism that so many have with Blizzard reminds me vividly of Apple’s sheep sometimes.

Andrew September 12, 2011 at 1:52 PM

MMORPGs are great, but creating a good one is incredibly hard to do. The king of them, World Of Warcraft, is an incredible engineering feat, even disregarding the artistic design.

squidgeny September 12, 2011 at 2:28 PM

What an odd coincidence; I spent the weekend browsing the internet for info on spaceflight simulators, space MMO’s and similar games. I’ve never played one before, but somehow I just feel compelled to get into it.

So far I’ve been quite impressed with the Evochron Renegades demo. It’s not a new game (it’s in the budget price-range) but the graphics and physics seem pretty swanky.

squidgeny September 12, 2011 at 2:28 PM

What an odd coincidence; I spent the weekend browsing the internet for info on spaceflight simulators, space MMO’s and similar games. I’ve never played one before, but somehow I just feel compelled to get into it.

So far I’ve been quite impressed with the Evochron Renegades demo. It’s not a new game (it’s in the budget price-range) but the graphics and physics seem pretty swanky.

Ray Sanders September 12, 2011 at 2:55 PM

What are your thoughts on EVE Online?

squidgeny September 12, 2011 at 3:05 PM

I must admit to being more interested in the games with single-player campaigns (or open-ended play) than actual MMO’s, simply because i know I won’t have the time for multiplayer… if Eve has some sort of trial period demo though, I’ll definitely give it a go :D

Ray Sanders September 12, 2011 at 3:41 PM

You could play EVE for the rest of your life and almost never have to deal with multi-player aspects unless you go into low security space. Yes, EVE has a 15 day trial. You could also try out the Moonbase Alpha game that I linked to in the article.

Tim Holt September 13, 2011 at 1:31 AM

EVE Online is I think a fantastic sandbox game. A huge open universe/simulation where you as a player have a huge ability to customize your experience. It’s heavily built on learning and education via a skill tree that dictates what technologies you can access. Also you are able to customize your ship (of which there are hundreds of types to choose from) to a huge extent. You can be a miner, a fighter, a salvager of wrecks, secret courier, cloaked spy ship, massive dreadnaught, tiny scout, hulking mining barge, all kinds of things.

I think EVE (minus the rather intense PvP) would be an excellent model for a NASA-style MMO. For one thing, EVE doesn’t give you a story – you the players MAKE the story by what you do. The problem with storylines is that a) some people just don’t really care about it (Orbiter takes this to an extreme), and b) if you create a complex storyline game sequence that you think is going to take 3 months for anyone to finish, someone will finish it in 3 days – and then complain that your game is boring and there’s nothing else to do.

You CAN have story based MMOs, but you better have a TON of content for players . And developing that content costs a fortune. WoW does this, but then they make an incredible amount of money, which they reinvest into making new content. EVE Online on the other hand is a sandbox game, where it’s the players actions that dictate to some extent what happens.

For a seriously most excellent article about smaller MMOs, read this article -> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_75/431-Boutique-MMOGs which spells out precisely what (I think) the mindset of the development needs to be.

Cam Kirmser September 13, 2011 at 4:06 PM

I agree. I’ve been refereeing RPGs since the mid-70s and I think my success has been that I don’t use canned stories. Basically, my games are huge sandboxes where players do what they want, not what the story tells them.

I’ve had very entertaining sessions along lines that a story would never present, let alone prepare for; lines that have absolutely zero to do with an underlying scenario or maybe even ignore it completely. What if a player wishes to do something that the story writer hasn’t prepared for? A canned story game would not allow this player to progress as he wishes and he will lose interest.

The game that lets me, as a player, do what I wish, rather than what the designer has planned for me to do, is the game where I will have the most fun.

And, be willing to pay.

Justin Hartberger September 13, 2011 at 8:37 PM

I guess Eve would be a decent model, though I hope they have more than just waypoint-based flying. I don’t think I could pull off the Kolvoord Starburst in Titan’s upper atmosphere with boring ‘go here’ mechanics.

This reminds me that I need to go check the progress for Infinity: The Quest for Earth though.

Tim Holt September 13, 2011 at 1:31 AM

EVE Online is I think a fantastic sandbox game. A huge open universe/simulation where you as a player have a huge ability to customize your experience. It’s heavily built on learning and education via a skill tree that dictates what technologies you can access. Also you are able to customize your ship (of which there are hundreds of types to choose from) to a huge extent. You can be a miner, a fighter, a salvager of wrecks, secret courier, cloaked spy ship, massive dreadnaught, tiny scout, hulking mining barge, all kinds of things.

I think EVE (minus the rather intense PvP) would be an excellent model for a NASA-style MMO. For one thing, EVE doesn’t give you a story – you the players MAKE the story by what you do. The problem with storylines is that a) some people just don’t really care about it (Orbiter takes this to an extreme), and b) if you create a complex storyline game sequence that you think is going to take 3 months for anyone to finish, someone will finish it in 3 days – and then complain that your game is boring and there’s nothing else to do.

You CAN have story based MMOs, but you better have a TON of content for players . And developing that content costs a fortune. WoW does this, but then they make an incredible amount of money, which they reinvest into making new content. EVE Online on the other hand is a sandbox game, where it’s the players actions that dictate to some extent what happens.

For a seriously most excellent article about smaller MMOs, read this article -> http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_75/431-Boutique-MMOGs which spells out precisely what (I think) the mindset of the development needs to be.

Daniel Brewer September 12, 2011 at 5:56 PM

For a spaceflight simulator, I’d try Orbiter; it’s completely free, and has in development for over 10 years. The learning curve is the highest of any game I’ve ever played(took me around 30 hours to have a decent understanding of all the maneuvers and operations for visiting any planet or moon, geostationary orbits, precision landing in different atmospheres(or none at all), efficient scram flight and orbital ascent, sub-orbital(ironically harder than orbital flight), docking, etc., but it should only take you about 3 hours or so to be able to launch, rendevous, dock, re-enter and land, and I can honestly say I had more fun when I was learning how to do things than I do now when I’m experienced. You do need your imagination, and you’ll want to create your own missions(extremely easy to do). For example, if you want to do something like repair the ISS, the game has no mechanics for that, so you’ll have to dock with it and create some kind of goal, like maneuvering and hovering over the corners of a solar panel to fix the wiring.

If you want to give it a try, here is the link
http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/download.html

and recommended addons
http://orbiter.dansteph.com/index.php?disp=d -All the addons here are amazing and really add to the game, especially UMMU which lets you do spacewalks and such. All you do to install an addon is extract it and paste it in the orbiter directory, then enable it in the options, but dan stephs addons include an EXE which make it even easier, and the Delta Glider IV is a very good spacecraft to learn in.

http://www.orbiter-forum.com/addons.php?v=2010
You’ll definitely want interplanetary mfd, aerobrake mfd, basesync mfd, and interplanetary mfd, plus anything you like the look of, but I’d start out with just some basic addons. The forum is also a good source of tutorials and specific help if you’re having trouble picking it up.

http://www.amcsorley.dsl.pipex.com/play_in_space.htm
-A good all-purpose tutorial to start with, even if it’s a little bit outdated, it should teach you how to do most of the things in the game

http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3262
-Universal cargo deck, bookmark it and then when you start running lunar missions, it’s great for attaching rovers(and rockets) to spacecraft, even if the interface is a little clunky, its h

http://www.orbithangar.com/ where all other addons are posted

I realize it’s a lot to look at, but orbiter is simply the best astronaut simulator in existence. This is currently the most popular Orbiter video on youtube, and while the author uses lighting effects and addons to enhance the graphics, its still a good representation of what an orbiter mission is like, but it still doesn’t compare to what you feel in the cockpit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS5HYznzw-k

Daniel Brewer September 12, 2011 at 5:56 PM

For a spaceflight simulator, I’d try Orbiter; it’s completely free, and has in development for over 10 years. The learning curve is the highest of any game I’ve ever played(took me around 30 hours to have a decent understanding of all the maneuvers and operations for visiting any planet or moon, geostationary orbits, precision landing in different atmospheres(or none at all), efficient scram flight and orbital ascent, sub-orbital(ironically harder than orbital flight), docking, etc., but it should only take you about 3 hours or so to be able to launch, rendevous, dock, re-enter and land, and I can honestly say I had more fun when I was learning how to do things than I do now when I’m experienced. You do need your imagination, and you’ll want to create your own missions(extremely easy to do). For example, if you want to do something like repair the ISS, the game has no mechanics for that, so you’ll have to dock with it and create some kind of goal, like maneuvering and hovering over the corners of a solar panel to fix the wiring.

If you want to give it a try, here is the link
http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/download.html

and recommended addons
http://orbiter.dansteph.com/index.php?disp=d -All the addons here are amazing and really add to the game, especially UMMU which lets you do spacewalks and such. All you do to install an addon is extract it and paste it in the orbiter directory, then enable it in the options, but dan stephs addons include an EXE which make it even easier, and the Delta Glider IV is a very good spacecraft to learn in.

http://www.orbiter-forum.com/addons.php?v=2010
You’ll definitely want interplanetary mfd, aerobrake mfd, basesync mfd, and interplanetary mfd, plus anything you like the look of, but I’d start out with just some basic addons. The forum is also a good source of tutorials and specific help if you’re having trouble picking it up.

http://www.amcsorley.dsl.pipex.com/play_in_space.htm
-A good all-purpose tutorial to start with, even if it’s a little bit outdated, it should teach you how to do most of the things in the game

http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3262
-Universal cargo deck, bookmark it and then when you start running lunar missions, it’s great for attaching rovers(and rockets) to spacecraft, even if the interface is a little clunky, its h

http://www.orbithangar.com/ where all other addons are posted

I realize it’s a lot to look at, but orbiter is simply the best astronaut simulator in existence. This is currently the most popular Orbiter video on youtube, and while the author uses lighting effects and addons to enhance the graphics, its still a good representation of what an orbiter mission is like, but it still doesn’t compare to what you feel in the cockpit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS5HYznzw-k

Daniel Brewer September 12, 2011 at 5:56 PM

For a spaceflight simulator, I’d try Orbiter; it’s completely free, and has in development for over 10 years. The learning curve is the highest of any game I’ve ever played(took me around 30 hours to have a decent understanding of all the maneuvers and operations for visiting any planet or moon, geostationary orbits, precision landing in different atmospheres(or none at all), efficient scram flight and orbital ascent, sub-orbital(ironically harder than orbital flight), docking, etc., but it should only take you about 3 hours or so to be able to launch, rendevous, dock, re-enter and land, and I can honestly say I had more fun when I was learning how to do things than I do now when I’m experienced. You do need your imagination, and you’ll want to create your own missions(extremely easy to do). For example, if you want to do something like repair the ISS, the game has no mechanics for that, so you’ll have to dock with it and create some kind of goal, like maneuvering and hovering over the corners of a solar panel to fix the wiring.

If you want to give it a try, here is the link
http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk/download.html

and recommended addons
http://orbiter.dansteph.com/index.php?disp=d -All the addons here are amazing and really add to the game, especially UMMU which lets you do spacewalks and such. All you do to install an addon is extract it and paste it in the orbiter directory, then enable it in the options, but dan stephs addons include an EXE which make it even easier, and the Delta Glider IV is a very good spacecraft to learn in.

http://www.orbiter-forum.com/addons.php?v=2010
You’ll definitely want interplanetary mfd, aerobrake mfd, basesync mfd, and interplanetary mfd, plus anything you like the look of, but I’d start out with just some basic addons. The forum is also a good source of tutorials and specific help if you’re having trouble picking it up.

http://www.amcsorley.dsl.pipex.com/play_in_space.htm
-A good all-purpose tutorial to start with, even if it’s a little bit outdated, it should teach you how to do most of the things in the game

http://www.orbithangar.com/searchid.php?ID=3262
-Universal cargo deck, bookmark it and then when you start running lunar missions, it’s great for attaching rovers(and rockets) to spacecraft, even if the interface is a little clunky, its h

http://www.orbithangar.com/ where all other addons are posted

I realize it’s a lot to look at, but orbiter is simply the best astronaut simulator in existence. This is currently the most popular Orbiter video on youtube, and while the author uses lighting effects and addons to enhance the graphics, its still a good representation of what an orbiter mission is like, but it still doesn’t compare to what you feel in the cockpit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS5HYznzw-k

Dennis Breen September 13, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Wow! VERRY cool!

Dennis Breen September 13, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Wow! VERRY cool!

Dennis Breen September 13, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Wow! VERRY cool!

Dennis Breen September 13, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Wow! VERRY cool!

Dennis Breen September 13, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Wow! VERRY cool!

Dennis Breen September 13, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Wow! VERRY cool!

Dennis Breen September 13, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Wow! VERRY cool!

Dennis Breen September 13, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Wow! VERRY cool!

Dennis Breen September 13, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Wow! VERRY cool!

Dennis Breen September 13, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Wow! VERRY cool!

Dennis Breen September 13, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Wow! VERRY cool!

Dennis Breen September 13, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Wow! VERRY cool!

Tim Holt September 13, 2011 at 1:46 AM

Every time I read about this game project I get excited and sad.

Excited because Daniel Laughlin says great stuff, has great ideas, and really wants to see this happen. And because it’s conceptually a really, really cool idea that us space (and game) nuts would love.

Sad because then the people developing it talk in giddy hushed tones about “protagonists”, flashy graphics, how it will be on an iPad too, “spoiling the opening scene of Chapter One”, etc. Yet they don’t talk one bit about why this will actually be a fun and engaging game. They don’t get one clue why you would want to PLAY this game, let alone PAY to play it. And they keep showing off high production value content, which makes me think their business model (if it even exists) is sort of a dot com dreamy kind of “We’ll make a game so cool everyone will play it and we’ll be able to make money just because everyone is playing it!” business idea.

High production values are EXPENSIVE. Players BURN THROUGH game content like you wouldn’t believe, and want more – very very fast. And unless you can figure out how to have millions coming in all the time, you’re not going to be able to afford creating new content to keep people happy. So you better be looking at gameplay ideas that revolve around PLAYERS competing with each other, or collaborating or cooperating. PLAYERS need to tell the story here, not a storyteller.

Role models for this game should be Minecraft, Runescape and even the old Oregon Trail game. Not World of Warcraft. It should be looking at what indie game developers are doing (Realm of the Mad God for example), not what massive mega-millions companies like Blizzard are doing. This isn’t a AAA game they are making because (sadly) it will never get that kind of budget nor will it get that kind of level of player participation to justify the budget. It should stop trying to act like an AAA game.

Ray Sanders September 13, 2011 at 2:07 PM

Tim,

There’s no way I could include everything that was mentioned to me by Dr. Laughlin and Khal Shariff. I can say the vibe I got from Khal and his team was definitely an emphasis on the player/community. Sure, there’s overall story/plot, but I certainly didn’t get the “WOW” uber-dungeon of the week vibe either. Look at EVE Online. There’s certainly a story there as well as missions, but the overall “experience” is player driven.

Stephen Cornelius September 13, 2011 at 12:13 PM

$40,000 ROFL

bills swills September 15, 2011 at 4:53 PM

for one, i would play this game. after reading everything it makes me think about the pirates of the carribean. caribbean? you know what i mean. sure that’s got disney funding to help out, but it’s a simple morpg that you has only one major story quest and a level cap at 50, and yet people still play, lots and lots and lots of people with new users 5 years after it came out. not sure how it would compare with this nasa based game, but hey, anything’s possible.

bills swills September 15, 2011 at 4:53 PM

for one, i would play this game. after reading everything it makes me think about the pirates of the carribean. caribbean? you know what i mean. sure that’s got disney funding to help out, but it’s a simple morpg that you has only one major story quest and a level cap at 50, and yet people still play, lots and lots and lots of people with new users 5 years after it came out. not sure how it would compare with this nasa based game, but hey, anything’s possible.

Ray Sanders September 12, 2011 at 11:28 PM

I like your stealth fix on YOUR grammar error. ;-) My e-mail notification showed “That reminds of the Laurel and Hardy short film,” You are mortal after all! I knew it!

IVAN3MAN_AT_LARGE September 13, 2011 at 12:06 AM

It’s something to do with the change of perspective after posting; I shall, in future, check my comments before posting!

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