Astronomy Without A Telescope – The Universe Is Not In A Black Hole

by Steve Nerlich on July 31, 2010

(Caption) Can a spinning massive object wind up spacetime? Credit: J Bergeron / Sky and Telescope Magazine. An APOD for 7 November 1997.

It has been reported that a recent scientific paper delivers the conclusion that our universe resides inside a black hole in another universe. In fact, this isn’t really what the paper concluded – although what the paper did conclude is still a little out of left field.

The Einstein-Cartan-Kibble-Sciama (ECKS) theory of gravity – claimed as an alternative to general relativity theory, although still based on Einstein field equations – seeks to take greater account of the effect of the spin of massive particles. Essentially, while general relativity has it that matter determines how spacetime curves, ECKS also tries to capture the torsion of spacetime, which is a more dynamic idea of curvature – where you have to think in terms of twisting and contortion, rather than just curvature.

Mind you, general relativity is also able to deal with dynamic curvature. ECKS proponents claim that where ECKS departs from general relativity is in situations with very high matter density – such as inside black holes. General relativity suggests that a singularity (with infinite density and zero volume) forms beyond a black hole’s event horizon. This is not a very satisfying result since the contents of black holes do seem to occupy volume – more massive ones have larger diameters than less massive ones – so general relativity may just not be up to the task of dealing with black hole physics.

ECKS theory attempts to step around the singularity problem by proposing that an extreme torsion of spacetime, resulting from the spin of massive particles compressed within a black hole, prevents a singularity from forming. Instead the intense compression increases the intrinsic angular momentum of the matter within (i.e. the spinning skater draws arms in analogy) until a point is reached where spacetime becomes as twisted, or as wound up, as it can get. From that point the tension must be released through an expansion (i.e. an unwinding) of spacetime in a whole new tangential direction – and voila you get a new baby universe.

But the new baby universe can’t be born and expand in the black hole. Remember this is general relativity. From any frame of reference outside the black hole, the events just described cannot sequentially happen. Clocks seem to slow to a standstill as they approach a black hole’s event horizon. It makes no sense for an external observer to imagine that a sequence of events is taking place over time inside a black hole.

Instead, it is proposed that the birth and expansion of new baby universe proceeds along a separate branch of spacetime with the black hole acting as an Einstein-Rosen bridge (i.e. a wormhole).

(Caption) The horizon problem in Big Bang cosmology. How is it that distant parts of the universe possess such similar physical properties? Well (putting your Occam brand razor aside), perhaps the whole contents of this universe was originally homogenized within a black hole from a parallel universe. Credit: Addison Wesley.

If correct, it’s a turtles on turtles solution and we are left to ponder the mystery of the first primeval universe which first formed the black holes from which all subsequent universes originate.

Something the ECKS hypothesis does manage to do is to provide an explanation for cosmic inflation. Matter and energy crunched within a black hole should achieve a state of isotropy and homogeneity (i.e. no wrinkles) – and when it expands into a new universe through a hypothetical wormhole, this is driven by the unwinding of the spacetime torsion that was built up within the black hole. So you have an explanation for why a universe expands – and why it is so isotropic and homogenous.

Despite there not being the slightest bit of evidence to support it, this does rank as an interesting idea.

Further reading: Poplawski, N.J. (2010) Cosmology with torsion – an alternative to cosmic inflation.

  • Paul Eaton-Jones

    To DrFLIMMER. My point is that as this an open, public site there will be many people of all levels of knowledge dropping in to see what is going on. A subject like black holes holds an incredible fascination for many including legions of youngsters who may not be intersted in other aspects of astronomy. Imagine a twelve year old reading the following, “Now because of differential forms logic (d + ieA)A = dA + ieA^2, but the A^2 is zero due to antisymmetry of differential forms, which implies A*A = -A*A = 0. Why this is so I leave to any reader to seek out Now one important aspect of this is gauge invariance. If I replace A by A + dX, and the field is (d + ieA)A = dA + d^2X.” and “… Lorentz boosts transforms a element of time dt as dt’ = gam(dt – vdx/c), for dx an increment of spatial length and gam = 1/sqrt{1 – (v/c)^2} the Lorentz factor.
    that dt’ = gam(dt – vdx/c^2) — c-squared,…….”. What do you think their reaction is going to be? Something like, ‘Mummy, I think I’ll become a sociologist’.
    Those with the most expertise and understanding of the minutiae of a subject are not necessarily the best suited to expalining to non-specialists. Specialist can talk to specialist in other fora. We have to cater for every level here and certainly the ocassional excursion into the complex is not to be discouraged. But as I said, showing off impresses only the impressionable and is tedious.

  • IVAN3MAN_AT_LARGE

    @ PAUL EATON-JONES,

    I also agree with you. When Prof. Stephen Hawking wrote his book, A Brief History of Time, an editor warned him that for every equation in the book the readership would be halved; hence, it includes only a single equation: E = mc². In addition to Hawking’s abstinence from equations, his book also simplifies matters by means of illustrations throughout the text, depicting complex models and diagrams.

    I think that it is essential not to intimidate the curious newbie to the wonders of astronomy by blinding him/her with scientific equations; it will only result in the novice being put off mainstream astronomy as “elitist” and becoming prey to the pseudoscience of “Electric Universe” mad dogs (sorry, but it needed saying!), who say that mathematics is “a priori”, or to the creationist/”Intelligent Design” nutters, who proclaim that “God did it!”, and both of whom will go to any lengths to spread their brand of bull**** propaganda by offering simple ‘answers’ to the mysteries of the Universe to the layperson.

  • IVAN3MAN_AT_LARGE

    Oh smeg! The HTML/XML code for that equation did not work; it should read: E = mc^2.

  • DrFlimmer

    I just wanted to note that both of you mentioned very good points.

    As I already said, even from my point of view LBC talks about quite complicated things, which is hard even for a PhD-student like me.

    What I write is supposed to be understandable for most people here, and I hope that in most cases I achieve this goal. However, it is necessary to ground especially astrophysicists from time to time. They tend to live and think in spheres far away from earth ;) .

  • Olaf

    @ PAUL EATON-JONES,

    Well in my case when I was 12 and I see those formula’s then I would be more interested in astronomy especially when I am good in maths.

    I actually got interested in theory of relativity since a history teacher told our class that we are not smart enough to ever understand the relativity theory.

    I actually did not like Hawkins books when I was young. Too basic I was craving for formula’s. Simple formulas how time got dilated for example. I created my own graphs on paper,… I was 15 years old at that time.

    You cannot go around the fact that astronomy means formula’s.

    Also the blog topics are also way beyond a typical 12 year old. How many 12 year olds are reading this blog?

    I doubt that a newbie would be intimidated, but it does do a hell of a job to get rid of the nutjobs.

  • Olaf

    Am I correct that a rotating black hole has 2 event horizons? And inner and an outer?

  • IVAN3MAN_AT_LARGE

    @ OLAF,

    Actually, a rotating black hole has two physical regions: the inner region is the event horizon; the outer region is visualized as an oblate spheroid known as the ergosphere. This is the result of a process known as frame-dragging; general relativity predicts that any rotating mass will tend to slightly ‘drag’ along the space-time immediately surrounding it.

    Oh, one more thing: the plural of formula is formulas or formulae, not “formula’s”. :-)

  • Paul Eaton-Jones

    To Olaf. I have to say you’re rather off the beam with your reply. Astronomy is not all about formulae. An understanding of the subject can be undertaken without recourse to abstruse maths. E.g. One doesn’t need to understand the fractional charge of quarks to know that protons and neutrons are made up of 3 quarks. To explain the difference between the two all you do is say that the proton has two called up and one a down and the neutron has two down and an up.
    Relativity can be explained to even primary school children by simple analogy – the old rubber sheet and ball bearing. This way an interest in sparked. I’ve worked in education for 27 years as a lab technician and taught astronomy in lunch breaks to many inquisitive pupils and never once had to resort to a maths formular except once when a child asked me about Kepler’s Laws. I doubt very much if the overwhelming majority of amateur astronomers ever need maths to appreciate the subject. I do concede that the researchers and professionals here may only be able to get the full explanation of the topic across to each other by way of a string of equations. But most people here are not professions but interested laymen, amateurs and newbies. The blog topics are not in any way beyond a twelve year old. Any youngster interested in astronomy will seize virtually every aspect of the subject and strive to know more whether or not they are good at, or have any interest in maths. That was/is my case. My inability to understand maths beyond secondary school level has certainly NOT hindered or diminished my love of the subject.

  • jimhenson

    All AGN Black holes emit X-ray jets, and a recent discovery fully supports plasma physics to replace fictious dark matter for extra gravity. Jan Zaanen and Antonio Bianconi AUG 12 Nature discovered free roaming OXYGEN atoms ABSORB X-RAYS and form a fractal pattern boosting semiconductors which conduct electricity. The same size pattern at 1 micrometer is at 400 micrometer scale. these oxygen atoms bring electrons to vacancies that contribute in the drop in resistance that accompanies superconductivity. only OXYGEN they recently found astonishingly can work at high temperatures as a superconductor, and THE WHIM OF TAOTAO FANG along the sculpture wall of galaxies DETECTED oxygen atoms of density 6 parts per cubic meter around 1 million degrees kelvin ABSORBING supermassive black hole X-RAYS aligned with the black hole and running for tens of millions of light years across thousands of galaxies, that are of course aligned in a flat plane all having these easily transparent see through plasma filaments that are vacouos tenous difficult to detect but yet discovered unlike fictious dark matter said Fang ! Lets use our heads and get plasma physics the role in stars and galaxies that are made up of 99% hot plasma hydrogen and helium gases, and assume the intergalactic medium of outer space is only about 5 times the distance apart of each galaxy that has a black hole emission jet. The tidal streaming of dark matter gravity and the annihilation particles that are never detected, the cold DM hypothesis, and the WIMPS makeup cover story, a are not better theories then plasma cosmology, which is supported by common sense observations and spectroscopic analysis composition of galaxies.

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