Constraining the Orbits of Planet X and Nemesis
Written by Ian O'Neill
Artists impression of the hypothetical star, Nemesis (Wikipedia)
If Planet X was out there, where would it be? This question posed by an Italian researcher turns out to be a lot more involved than you'd think. As opposed to all the 2012 idiocy hype flying around on the internet, this research is actually based on a little thing called science. By analysing the orbital precession of all the inner-Solar System planets, the researcher has been able to constrain the minimum distance a hypothetical object, from the mass of Mars to the mass of the Sun, could be located in the Solar System. As most of the astronomical community already knows, the two purveyors of doom (Planet X and the Sun's evil twin, Nemesis) exist only in the over-active imaginations of a few misinformed individuals, not in reality…
Planet X and Nemesis are hypothetical objects with more grounding in ancient prophecy and doomsday theories based on pseudo-science. This might be the case, but Planet X came from far more rational beginnings.
The name "Planet X" was actually coined by Percival Lowell at the start of the 20th century when he predicted there might be a massive planet beyond the orbit of Neptune. Then, in 1930, Clyde Tombaugh appeared to confirm Lowell's theory; a planet had been discovered and it was promptly named Pluto. However, as time went on, it slowly became apparent that Pluto wasn't massive enough to explain the original observations of the perturbations of Uranus' orbit (the reason for Lowell's Planet X prediction in the first place). By the 1970's and 80's modern observation techniques proved that the original perturbations in Uranus' orbit were measurement error and not being caused by a massive planetary body. The hunt for Planet X pretty much ended with the discovery of Pluto in 1930, but it never lived up to its promise as a massive planetary body (despite what the woefully erroneous doomsday theories say otherwise).
Now an Italian researcher has published results from a study that examines the orbital dynamics of the inner-Solar System planets, and relates them to the gravitational influence of a massive planetary body orbiting the Sun from afar.
To cut a long story short, if a massive planetary body or a small binary sibling of the Sun were close to us, we would notice their gravitational influence in the orbital dynamics of the planets. There may be some indirect indications that a small planetary body might be shaping the Kuiper Cliff, and that a binary partner of the Sun might be disturbing the Oort Cloud every 25 million years or so (relating to the cyclical mass extinctions in Earth's history, possibly caused by comet impacts), but hard astronomical proof has yet to be found.
Lorenzo Iorio from the National Institute of Nuclear Physics in Pisa (Italy) has taken orbital data from many years of precise observations and used his computations to predict the closest possible distance at which a massive planet could orbit if it was out there.
It turns out that all the planets the mass of Mars and above have been discovered within the Solar System. Iorio computes that the minimum possible distances at which a Mars-mass, Earth-mass, Jupiter-mass and Sun-mass object can orbit around the Sun are 62 AU, 430 AU, 886 AU and 8995 AU respectively. To put this into perspective, Pluto orbits the Sun at an average distance of 39 AU.
So if we used our imaginations a bit, we could say that a sufficiently sized Planet X could be patrolling a snail-paced orbit somewhere beyond Pluto. But there's an additional problem for Planet X conspiracy theorists. If there was any object of sufficient size (and by "sufficient" I mean Pluto-mass, I'm being generous), according to a 2004 publication by David Jewitt, from the Institute for Astronomy, University of Hawaii, we would have observed such an object by now if it orbited within 320 AU from the Sun.
Suddenly, the suggestion that Planet X will be making an appearance in 2012 and the crazy idea that anything larger than a Pluto-sized object is currently 75 AU away seems silly. Sorry, between here and a few hundred AU away, it's just us, the known planets and a load of asteroids (and perhaps the odd plutino) for company.
Source: arXiv, Astroengine.com
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April 15th, 2009 at 11:07 pm
Good job Ian, of course i wouldn't be suprised if people start coming in and labeling this as disinformation.–;
April 15th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
I suppose the counter argument will be that a large object could have a highly inclined and elliptical orbit, but even that said for one to get to the inner solar system by 2012 we would have seen it long ago. I like the idea of there being a mars sized object responsible for shaping the kuiper cliff. I also think a large body possibly a gas giant orbiting several thousand AUs out could be sending comets out way periodically. I believe a brown dwarf oribitng that far out would have been easily detected by infra red observatories like Kepler by now. The idea of us having missed a comapnion star in a distant orbit is simply proposterous.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:10 am
@Tenshu: Well, I am secretly employed by NASA to disseminate false information. But I'll save that conspiracy for another day
@Greg: You're right, and some have already come forward saying that Planet X is actually hiding out in an highly inclined orbit. If this is the case, we would still detect gravitational perturbations in the orbits of the inner planets. You'd also have to ask how the hell that planet got into that kind of state anyway – it seems unlikely even a binary system would have formed that way
April 16th, 2009 at 12:54 am
If we can't detect a Planet X just around the corner, how the hell are we gonna find Alien Earths ?
This arguments lead to EITHER of the 2 answers:
1) We suck at planet hunting.
OR
2) There's no Planet X
Anyways, what about the mysterious Pioneer force thingy ? Are these connected ?
April 16th, 2009 at 1:03 am
Look Ian, Once again. Why are you Posting Scientific answers over such Idiocty Hype? We all Know 2012 is a Hoax. Not a Theory. No Theory. it ='s a Hoax.
ITS A HOAX PEOPLE. GET OVER IT!
And to Tech Roach.
Your second answer is Correct =D
And no. The Pioneer thing isnt related.
April 16th, 2009 at 1:27 am
@ Jack: Lol, well I actually posted this as I found the science pretty cool, rather than simply debunking Planet X again (believe me, I'm getting a little tired of the whole 2012 thing too!).
But have a scout around online, I think you'll find the hype only increasing. I've been writing 2012 articles for a year now and there's been a huge increase in crazy websites foretelling doom.
So long as there's someone profiteering from science misinformation, I'll be writing articles countering them.
Cheers! Ian
April 16th, 2009 at 2:00 am
Just one little disagreement: the D. Jewitt paper does not say that 'we would have observed [any Pluto-sized] object by now if it orbited within 320 AU from the Sun'.
On the contrary, this figure comes from a table titled 'Detectability of distant planets' (p. 10 of the pdf): it gives the farthest possible optical detection distances of bodies (by the Pan-Starrs experiment), according to their sizes.
No Pluto-sized 'Planet X' could be detected further than 320 AU.
Hopefully some will be detected closer!
April 16th, 2009 at 2:12 am
"There may be some indirect indications that a small planetary body might be shaping the Kuiper Cliff, and that a binary partner of the Sun might be disturbing the Oort Cloud every 25 million years or so (relating to the cyclical mass extinctions in Earth’s history, possibly caused by comet impacts), but hard astronomical proof has yet to be found."
Or geological evidence. There's been 10 mass extinctions in the past 550 million years (and they seem to be getting less frequent). If disturbed comets from the Oort Cloud are related to the aforementioned mass extinctions, then there should be upwards of 20 or more observable in the geological record.
We also have a very good idea of what caused 2 of those mass extinctions:
The Permian-Triassic, or "The Great Dying", saw ~95% of all species die around 250 million years ago. The greatest amount of evidence for this event is the eruption of the Siberian Traps in combination with the release of methyl hydrates from the oceans causing enormous climate change. No extra-terrestrial isotopes or a large enough crater have been found in the geological layers straddling the Permian and Triassic.
The Cretaceous-Tertiary boundary (KT), the most famous of mass extinctions when the dinosaurs saw their last days, was most likely caused by a combination of the eruption of the Deccan Traps in India and the impact of a meteor (which happened to be a CV chondrite), on what is now Chicxulub in Mexico. The impact on its own may not have caused such a large extinction event.
April 16th, 2009 at 2:42 am
[...] Ian O'Neill Fecha Original: 15 de abril de 2009 Enlace Original Articulos RelacionadosCientíficos proponen prueba para la Teoría de Cuerdas basada en la [...]
April 16th, 2009 at 4:16 am
I would so love to hear an appology from the Planet X people on the 22nd December 2012.
"Planet X? Oh, yes. Sorry about that, it doesn't really exist, we made the whold thing up just so we could scare the s*** out of people, sell a few books and try to make it sound as though we know what we're talking about"
Phil Plait's "Death from the skys" sounds like a laugh, but I wonder if anyone has written a book/compilation of all the stupid "End of the World" scams that have been banded about over the generations?
April 16th, 2009 at 4:36 am
Once again, thanks Ian. In my line of work, the disappointment that you've inspired among some will ensure some measure of my vocational security.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:37 am
Mass extinction in 2012 will not be the result of some object from space crashing into Earth. Quite simply, the Earth itself will erupt through the several active super volcanos which have been quiet far beyond their expected time.
Wah ha hah ha haaaah.
…that or because there will be a mutation in rabbits, causing them to grow to an average height of 14 feet, and becoming carniverous.
Tea leaf prophecy is never wrong!
April 16th, 2009 at 5:10 am
On a small point of history, Lowell based his predictions on the supposed unexplained wanderings of Uranus. Neptune had only gone a quarter of an orbit since discovery at the time (indeed I think it won't reach a full orbit until some time in 2011), so astronomers had to use Uranus, as Adams and Le Verrier did. Once Voyager measured the mass of Neptune more accurately, Uranus's motion didn't need further explanation. The Encyclopedia of the Solar System (Weissman, McFadden, Johnson eds) has a good summary.
So long as there’s someone profiteering from science misinformation
That would be the notorous Universe Today website, no?
April 16th, 2009 at 5:21 am
@Vagueofgodalming: Aww, you got me. I was trying to dupe the readers into believing Uranus had drifted beyond the orbit of Neptune, thus changing the order of the planets. And NASA was covering it up all along. You're too quick for me, my evil plan has been foiled.
(Oh, and I've corrected for the error, thanks)
Ian
April 16th, 2009 at 6:15 am
Restringiendo las órbitas del Planeta X y Némesis…
[c&p] Si el Planeta X estuviese ahí fuera, ¿dónde estaría? Esta cuestión, propuesta por un investigador italiano, resulta que implica más cosas de las que se podría pensar. Al contrario que todas las exageraciones sobre 2012 que pululan por …
April 16th, 2009 at 6:46 am
Re: "2012 idiocy hype"
Ian, I don't believe in 2012 either but I see no reason why you should be so condescending to those that do. Your 'idiocy' statement shows me what kind of individual you are and where you're coming from, which should certainly be more important than the fact that some think 2012 is possible – don't ya think?
Maybe you don't care about those who think that way but you should still show respect to them since they are (just like yourself) a human being. Your comment looks like something I would read in a run-a-way forum or the likes of the rudest of the rudest Phil Plaitt. Is that what you want?
April 16th, 2009 at 7:01 am
It took an Italian from Pisa to close this story?
Ma ci voleva un italiano di Pisa per porre fine a sta storia?
From Galileo's age to modern time, italians do it better ;D
(astronomy -.- malicious….)
April 16th, 2009 at 8:24 am
Iorio's restrictions state that a Nemesis-brown-dwarf has to be farther than 3800 AU. It is OK, but…
On the other hand, since Oort Cloud is around 50000 AU from the Sun, the Nemesis hypothesis of a brown-dwarf sub-stellar body that lurks at 50000 – 100000 AU with a very slow period of some millions years still remains unclear.
Here we’re talking about a rogue massive object that periodically shakes the Oort cloud throwing dangerous comets to inner Solar System, causing the cycle mass extinctions…
http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/abstract/81/3/801
There is a guy that defends the existence of an object that orbits at 1 to 3 light-years far away and it is outside Iorio’s constraints. The guy appeared on the Universe series:
Universe – The History Channel – Unexplained Mysteries
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYUypsQo3Qk
What are your concerns about this?
ROCA
April 16th, 2009 at 8:26 am
SciFi Si: 'I wonder if anyone has written a book/compilation of all the stupid “End of the World” scams that have been banded about over the generations?'
There was the Fortean Times Book of the Millenium (published 2000 surprisingly enough). It may not have had _all_ of the stupid EOTW scams, but it had a fair enough selection.
April 16th, 2009 at 9:58 am
You know what is funny?
No one knows when the Mayan calender actually ends. Right now there are 22 potential end dates ranging between 200 years ago and 500 years in the future.
But still people insist that it must be 21 dec 2012 since that is a cool number. (I would have chosen 21 12 2112.
The interesting thing is to see where the planets are on that date en how the moon is. Noting interesting to see, planets are not aligned or not even aligned in some pattern, the moon is 66% I believe and also not alagned to anything, so the Mayans would have been very sloppy astronomers.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:05 am
@Eileen
"Ian, I don’t believe in 2012 either but I see no reason why you should be so condescending to those that do. "
Eileen, these 2012 proponents are sucking victims with these stories and fear dry. People that have no science knowledge might be told to pay big money in order to stay safe on 2012. Con artists have jumped on it to get money from those easy believers, Sect guru's are using this to get more followers to hide in a big caven and finally commit suicide. People are wasting tons of money building a nuclear cellar in case the planet will distroy earth. People might be spending thousands of dollars in magic bricks because of con artists. Some people actually commit suicide because of the fear that Nibiru will distroy earth.
And also very realistisc, some guru might get into politics beause he will save humanity and easy believers vote for him, and the first thing he might do is hit the nuclear button once he has become presiden to distroy all sinners in order to free the world form sin and hoping that Nibiru will just pass.
This is the real danger!
April 16th, 2009 at 10:09 am
Sci-Fi Si Says:
"I would so love to hear an appology from the Planet X people on the 22nd December 2012."
They will probably say something like this:
Thanks to our prayers to the lord, the lord interviened and saved us from distruction.
(I am wondering how they will then explain why the Hindu side of the world did not get distroyed?)
Trust me they will find a lot of stuff to explain it.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Olaf, you're looking too far ahead with the 21/12/2112 thing. I would be willing to bet a Caramel Mocha that when the time arrives some jackass will assume that date as the end of time too.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:19 am
Greg Says:
"I suppose the counter argument will be that a large object could have a highly inclined and elliptical orbit"
I tried this to simulate an orbit that made sense using some gravity simulation.
The things I have noticed that it takes time to get from outside the pluto orbit to get here. It should have crossed Satun's orbit now.
But even if it consist of dark matter, still it will have gravitational influence on all orbits. The first thing that you will notice is that Earths orbit duration will change. One year will not be 365.25 days anymore but maybe 254 days, we will notice that right now! So will all the orbits of the other planets have changed.
Also interesting is that Nibiru changes our orbit, but we also change Nibiru's orbit, so if it did pass Earh before it would have changed duration. So the mayan calender would have to be modified for another duration. It can't be a fixed number of days, every pass will change the Nibiru year.
And to make matter worse, there is also such a thing like gravity assist. If you have a planet that comes from so far and has an inclination so steep, either the Nibiru would have been ejected out of our solar system never to return ever again or or other planets would have been ejected or at least have become very eleptical.
You have to choose, or Nibiru stays way out of our solar system never comes even close to Earth and inner planets or the solar system would have been disrupted and none of the planets even Nibiru would have been in a fixed period orbit.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:22 am
Silver Thread:
"Olaf, you’re looking too far ahead with the 21/12/2112 thing"
Well I did find some scientific research group that did have a pretty realistic date that could be interpreted as the Mayan end date provided that the mayans were perfect observers as they clame!
That date was somewhere in 2116 but I lost the reference link. That date planets are actually in interesting positions.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:28 am
But we did forget one thing!
Nibiru is inhabited by intelligent beeings and maybe they have discovered the EU theory to be true and are now riding some plasma wave by an electric motor powerd by some birkley current! And since EU tells us that gravity is the result of magnetized atomes that are aligned in the same direcction they could have lowered their gravity footprint so they are now hoovering above the south pole to hide from us untill the real date comes. Then the aliens will power their birkley motor, move around the sun hop above the sun for all to see and ride the plasma wave directly towards us and zaps us with a big electric shock.
These are super intelligent beeings! They can do things like this.
April 16th, 2009 at 10:45 am
Re: “2012 idiocy hype”
Most 2012 "believers" are bonkers.
Clearly misled by someone else or perhaps even themselves. WIth little to no evidence and certainly ZERO scientific evidence.
They make money and prey on the susceptible people in todays society.
I feel sorry for them and their victims.
April 16th, 2009 at 11:11 am
It's just fear mongering. Plain and simple. There's loads of money in it. Look what happened in 2000. Millions was made on the additional sales of duct tape by sheeple in response to the "warnings".
It makes me wanna puke.
April 16th, 2009 at 11:39 am
While I agree that it is odd that people have somehow tied 2012 with a discovery/return of a planetx, I think your article is a bit too loud with cynicism.
As to the question of a 'planetx', do some reading and study The 12th Planet by Sacheria Sitchen. If I recall he worked with NASA and was on The Presidential Council. So don't attempt the snide dismissal of that work. At the real academic level, it is known and well accepted. ….And no it is not due back in 2012. It has been said that Sitchen and a few others feel 'Niburu' will pass through around 2060.
As to 2012 itself it certainly is a profound date, well marked by a number of sources. Key fact though is still the significance of our solar system dipping below the galactic equator. A very large time scale movement.
As to the childish remarks about 'other beings', its time to grow up and educate yourselves. Investigate Dr. Stephen Greer and The Disclosure Project. With approx 500….yes 500 military and governmental people testifying before Congress as to their direct involvement with UFO's and ET's including deep operatives who are on record but can't publicly disclose.
Study Col Phillip Corso who published The Day After Roswell just before he died.
If you think the Space Shuttle is the best thing we have, then you are the sheeple and this is the kindergarten science class.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:41 pm
Phillip Corso was interviewed on Art Bell?
There goes his credibility.
April 16th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
And this gem…
The Guardian included the book in its list of "Top Ten literary hoaxes".
April 16th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
aspaceyguy Says:
"It has been said that Sitchen and a few others feel ‘Niburu’ will pass through around 2060."
You een "feeling" is a scientific instrument?
aspaceyguy Says:
"As to 2012 itself it certainly is a profound date, well marked by a number of sources. Key fact though is still the significance of our solar system dipping below the galactic equator. A very large time scale movement."
Beeeeep! We already crosse that so called galactic plane in 1997! And this so called croosing is just an imaginary rossing of a line we think is the galactic equator.
Also this crossing takes 70 whole years to let the sun cross that equator so there is no 1 magic date that exist about this crossing.
Also can you imagine that the shuttle drops out of orbit when it crosses Earth's equator? Sounds like BS of course but why then would the crossing of that imaginary line be any credible since the gravity is spherical from the so called black hole!
Ok imagine that something will happen when the sun is crossing the galactic equator, will the sun suddenly drop into that black holeand leafe earth behind all alone? Or will Earth and the Sun and all other planets be pulled towards that black hole without us even noticing that we are in free fall since we are dragged along with equal force as the sun?
So how long would it then take before the Earth falles into that black hole? My guess is a teeny bit more than 30.000 years provided that we fly at light speed in a straight line towards that black hole! We could hit the black hole by 21 dec 302012.
But even this galactic equator is not a single line, the disk is about 6000 lightyears thick according to the latest observations, and since the sun moves at a speed of 220 km/s around the galaxy, it wil take many thousands years to cross that galactic equator disk.
Again, and agian and again, ther is no magic one day date that happens instantly!
But ask yourself how the mayans could have predicted that our modern civilisation would have this cool date with the magic numbers 21 12 2012? Our civilisation did not exist when the Mayans invented their calender, and even our calender is not correct since we have lost a few days between pure gregorian calender and our current one.
And even if the Mayan were very good astronomers, without the atomic clocks we have now we would not have known that even the planets have no real perfect fixed periode. In a few thousands of years the planets will be not on their corrct position since they are beeing influenced by all other planets gravitationally creating small errors…
April 16th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
21 12 2012 is a mid point in an event window.
The Mayans knew exactly what they were observing and its cyclical nature. We just don't understand and so we have all kinds of people making stuff up with wild guesses and chances to make money.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Now for those interested in a theoretical orbit of nibiru these are the ones that made the most sence assuming that there really exist a planet X and where would it be today based on the conflicting information I found on the nibiru sites.
Righ now it would be 12.35 AU from the sun if it want to be here in time.
Starry night
Mean distance: 234.9523913
Accentricity: 0.9958197
Inclination: 90.3145103
Ascending node: 88.9957069
Arg of pericenter: 357.0039408
Mean anomaly: 359.5708522
Epoch: 2454705.0000
Note the Starry night does not take gravity into account, it is assuming that these orbital elements is of something that is very very light.
April 16th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
joeshmo Says:
"The Mayans knew exactly what they were observing and its cyclical nature. We just don’t understand and so we have all kinds of people making stuff up with wild guesses and chances to make money."
What about people inventing stuff that this date is the end date of the mayan calender?
The mayan calender ends between 200 years ago and 500 years in the future! There are 22 possible mayan end dates, which of these 22 is the correct one?
Yes all Nibiru sites did a copy and paste of that one magic date, ignoring all other 22 possible dates.
I agree the mayan calender had a cyclic calender but so do we. Every year at 31 decemeber the number jumps to 1 jan and nothing bad happens.
We recently have a rollover from the year 99 to 00 (1999 – 2000) and nothing dropped on our heads.
Our current astronomers are far more advanced than any mayan or ancient culture ever had, our atomic clocks are near perfect compared to the stone clocks of the mayans, we even have charted our gravity around our planet we have sent space craft furter than Neptune with very accurate precisiong, something the mayens could never even get near to. So why would mayans be corrcet and our modern technologie and science be wrong?
Ok I admit, modern science does not channel
spirits and telephatic contact with the Annanuki. Maybe that is the flaw?
But then again if the Mayans did have telepathic contact with the aliens, that told them when they were arriving, that would mean that their so called calender was just a coverup to hide the fact that they did not know anything and had to rely on internal information by an alien.
April 16th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Moving on…now where is planet Y…
April 16th, 2009 at 10:39 pm
Next to planet Z, of course
April 16th, 2009 at 11:53 pm
Sci-Fi Si Says:
April 16th, 2009 at 4:16 am
Phil Plait’s “Death from the skys” sounds like a laugh, but I wonder if anyone has written a book/compilation of all the stupid “End of the World” scams that have been banded about over the generations?
—————————————————–
Here's a website that collects "end of the world" scenarios from all directions, It's quite amusing to read. They're including ALL kinds of prophecies, theories and what-have-you, so between the great rip and 2012 asteroids you also have armageddon and the information singularity there.
http://www.exitmundi.nl/exitmundi.htm
April 17th, 2009 at 1:08 am
Olaf Says:
"You know what is funny?
No one knows when the Mayan calender actually ends. Right now there are 22 potential end dates ranging between 200 years ago and 500 years in the future."
This simply isn't true. Try and convince a Maya Day Keeper of this.
There have been disputes about the correlation between the Maya Long Count calendar and the Julian Day Count – plus/minus no more than nine days, with some White Boys claiming the Maya Day Keepers lost count during the turbulent times of the Spanish invasion… but that's been settled in favour of the Day Keepers.
However the Maya Long Count calendar contains absolutely NO PROPHECY regarding the end of the World.
Consider this:
The Maya also use another calendar, the "Calendar Round", which repeats in cycles of 52 years.
Chief Pacal of Palenque (7th century, if I remember correctly) wanted the 80th "Calendar Round Anniversary" of his accession celebrated in a BIG way, and to make sure nobody forgot, he had the date and instructions inscribed on a plaque: October 21st, 4772.
Amazing, one of the most powerful, most influential, wealthiest men of the time, revered as a relative of a God, didn't know the World was going to end long before then
By the way: The Maya are Native Americans – by convention, they are the MAYA, NOT THE MAYANS. A Maya correspondent of mine said she finds being called "Mayan" somewhat offensive. It makes it sound like the Maya are aliens – in fact, they are direct descendants of THE original people of Central America. They could say that Guatemala, Belize, and much of Mexico is THEIR land.
"Why call us Mayans?" she said. "You never speak of Apacheans or Cherokeans or Inuiteans…"
About the "coincidence" of the date (Solstice): The Maya Long Count Calendar is arbitrary. It's "rigged". The beginning lies outside the recorded history of the Maya, and the end is a significant date for the start of a new calendar era. The days are getting longer again – a significant marker for a close-to-nature agricultural society.
The Maya Long Count is amazingly accurate. It's an arbitrary day count and more accurate than any astronomical calendar in history. It corresponds precisely, day for day, to days in the Julian Day Count, which is our own precise arbitrary calendar.
December 21st 2012, will be the first day of the next calendar cycle. It could be written in Mayaa long count notation as 13.0.0.0.0. It could perhaps also be written as 1.0.0.0.0.0 – there is no clear convention yet. The way it will be written has cultural implications for the Maya which I, as a white boy, cannot quite understand.
Also, there is no passage of the Solar System trough the Galactic Equator at the Winter Solstice – that's an Astrological 2D projection due to precession, and it happened ten years ago, or thereabouts. It's difficult to determine exactly.
A long post, sorry about that, but I'm an "Indians Fan" with many Native American contacts, and I felt I had to get this off my chest.
April 17th, 2009 at 1:31 am
1.Those simulations (published by Italian researcher) have no big value. Planet X is not on circular orbit, but on orbit with extreme excentricity!!!
2.I made simulatians for Planet X and for more distant Nemesis in WINORSA but you don't want to hear about it.
3.Albedo of Planet X,( if X is superdensty but with dimensions smaller than our Moon) can be such, that even from distance less than 1,5billion km you don't see X, even with big telescopes. X though 25mass of Jupiter but with dimensions of our Moon can't be seen even with magnitude +15, +17 due to its very black color.
When I gave coordinates to Mike Brown for possible position of X and he found after some days Sedna over there it was surprise. Nobody/no well known astronomer wanted to realise, to admit that such big and bright body can be so close to us. 5 comparable big planetoids afterward were discovered close behind Pluto!
4. Results of Los Alamos Researches Milagro cosmic ray detector survay are are clear.
There is no evident extra solar source of eccelerated particles! Center of our galaxy is on other place, close X, gama cosmic ray active nebulas are also far outside,…
4. Those two spots circa in ecliptic plane, on both sides of Orion are actually one sorce what is nearly as close as Saturn!!!, but due to paralaxa of that source we see two spots. One spot is close, around to Castor and Polux and the second is at Aldebaran. We are not far from spring exuinox so we se X close to Aldebaran,…due to paralaxa of X, due to orbital motion of Earth.
April 17th, 2009 at 5:02 am
Pavel Smutny: Thank you for your comment! That was valuable info for me…more than I can say here.
April 17th, 2009 at 6:18 am
Ok, I'm not reading all the comments on here, so if anyone else has ever said anything similar to what I am about to say, then my apologies…
Is it quite possible that our stars binary partner is a yet unknown blackhole with a mass that has yet been theorized?
I mean, micro black holes hove been theorized, isn't possible that we haven't yet figured on the possibility of a more "medium" sized black hole?
It's just a thought…
April 17th, 2009 at 7:23 am
Hey, now, folks, hold on here a second.
I see no reason to attack those who believe in certain ideas just because they seem moronic, apocalyptic, or just plain loony. So what if they are based on little hard scientific evidence? Does it really matter if they might be trying to make trillions of bucks off the concepts, or gain total power over the entire world's economy? Or that they could care less if 90% the human race may die and the rest go back to riding horses and buggies if we implement their doomsday recommendations, whether they are right or wrong?
As long as they are sincere (mostly), right?
Take glob…er, ah, I mean, climate change for example…
April 17th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Did you know that people and organizations that advertise using AdSense pay by the click?
So after reading Universe Today, make the lunatic advertisers pay for their lunacy by clicking their ads (and closing the browser tab when the new page displays).
So, go ahead, click!
April 17th, 2009 at 9:40 am
@ Pavel, You state that "When I gave coordinates to Mike Brown for possible position of X and he found after some days Sedna over there it was surprise." I'm a bit surprised, too. Why was your name absent from the published paper concerning the discovery of Sedna and subsequent papers on this object? Mike Brown & his associates didn't even mention your 'valuable contribution' in their paper! So what gives. Don't you feel a bit slighted by this?
April 17th, 2009 at 11:08 am
Science is not about absolutes. Ok 'scientific materialism' suffers from that tendency but science in and of itself studies with hypothesis and observes and changes as knowledge moves forward.
When writers cry out with current perspectives and theorems and laws..saying there can't be a planet or extra bodies …because…I am not sure if should laugh or cry. All too often notably in astronomy we are seeing exceptions and new discoveries almost monthly now.
I remember in regards to the Sphinx and how the 'devout' Egyptologists cried with such fervor as to the age of it and shot down anyone who argued otherwise. If I recall it was a Geologist in the end who set them straight and clarified the real age a little bit more accurately.
My point being, debate is healthy and honest/sincere peer review is appropriate too, but the tendency to uphold limited understanding as 'absolute' is a trap. To act like the public domain 'knows all' and to dismiss other information from entering the field is surely a mistake.
There is so much more that is classified or embargoed that articles like this one here serve only to dis-inform and confuse.
UFO's are real, and not only black ops projects or childish weather balloons. My own father as a fighter pilot chased a bonafide one in 1955 flying a CF100 over Canada.
Again I refer to Dr. Stephen Greer as one powerful legitimate point to study.
The Space Shuttle has been observing 'bogies' for years.
Sedna was an eye opener for many and if I recall, it was being withheld until outside pressures forced disclosure.
What next? How about the expected water on Ceres? Even the topic of water just about everywhere, was taboo a mere few years ago. Now we see hints trickling out like a leaky boat every week.
Who is accountable later when the full truth is revealed. Do we go back and kick some arrogant butts who worked so hard to discredit those that considered these things earlier? How about this author here who wrote this article?
The myth making and strategic dis-information must end.
April 17th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
For Jon Hanford,…My surname is Smutny what in english is Sad,..pronounced,..sed,…?!?! There was question in forums if smutny is in english sad,..after that Sedna-Xena-2003VB12 discovery,…but more important is, I wonder why after Los Alamos Milagro survay discovery, there wasn't bigger interest from public, from astronomers, scientiests to explain correctly what those spots actualy are. Why they are exactly over there. I asked those scientiests from Los Alamos on their explanation of source of cosmic rays, their origin,…there was no response! I wanted to discuss my scientific explanation withe them but no answer, no response was there., Pool with many technicaly advanced detectors for millions dollars, more than 7 years of work and they simply don't wont to communicate. Why? Is it top secret or something not important or they are pressed to shut up,…..?!
April 17th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
Yo! Fraser!! You know where I live, come on out man and I'll put on the BBQ, fire up some hot dogs and burgers. You bring the Popcorn and Cotton Candy…
I wanna watch all these Nibiru peeps, run off the cliff's like a herd of Lemmings. Only to find out too late that they've been HOAXED!
What I really should do is sell Life Insurance, 5000 dollars will get your 125,000 dollars worth of insurance for your surviving beneficiary. Should you die in the 2012 celestial Nibiru event. Should you survive?? I get to keep the 5000 dollars and the contract is desolved. Any takers????
Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii didn't think so…..see you all on Dec.22, 2012…
April 17th, 2009 at 1:21 pm
What are cosmic rays? Those rays are accelerated protons, cores of atoms,… Fotons fly to us even from end of visible space, from 13billions LY distance,..But protons, atom's cores are more deflected by electromagnetic fields, by gravity than fotons, neutrinos,….Those rays are not from our galactic core-that is in other direction, are not from close active nebulas with very active stars,…Source of cosmic rays or accelerator of protons,…could be very probably black hole, neutron star or something very massive and small, what has strong gravity,el.mag field close to its surface and so it is able to accelerate particles,…not far from us?!
April 17th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
Wow, many think May.End Time = Apocalypse? + Niburu?
Cyclical is kind of self descriptive. If there is a recognition of the cyclical nature of all and notably time, then an 'End Time' also simply ushers in a 'First Time' and the merry go round continues.
For the dooms day peddlers, I scoff too at them.
A couple of old sayings from mystic relatives I knew.
"There is nothing new under the Sun" & "History repeats itself"
Guess what? We are coming to realize that is closer to the truth than most know.
April 17th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
@Pavel Smutny Says:
"1.Those simulations (published by Italian researcher) have no big value. Planet X is not on circular orbit, but on orbit with extreme excentricity!!!"
It is clear that you have now understanding what extreme excentricity means. Extreme excentricity means that the orbit is very unstable if the planet has any mass that can influence the Earth!!! The gravity-assist when it gets near our planets inside the solar system will modify the orbits period and possible slingshot Nibir out of our solar system. All other planets, especially the outer planets will feel the gravitational tug of that planet and will shift orbit and tilt. The orbit wil become more eleptical and the period will change depending on the location of the planet where it was.
The reason why the outher orbits will feel more gravitational influence is because at that distance the Planet X will move slowely and have a longer duration to influence the outer orbits.
It takes 20 years for Nibiru from the outer side of our solar system (the distance from Pluto) to Earth. It took 17 years to get to the distance of Saturn, and since pluto, uranus and Neptune happen to be on the correct side of the solar system where Nibiru enters, they will be influenced during 17 complete years by the gravitational tug of 25 jupiter masses!!!
Just take the orbilat elements form 1950 since the planet X was not know during that time, point your telescome to that location and see for yourself that all 3 outer planets are precisely where they should be just like there is not Nibiru!
Even the darkest and most dense object will have mass, and that should be shown in the orbits of Neptune, Uranus, Saturn,… No evidence of period change of these planets or change in orbit is beeing observed! So either Nibiru is too low in mass to have any influence on Earth or nothing is out there.
This can be easily checked by amateur astronomers by checking the location of all our planets right now right here.
And to make matters worse, Nibiru will also change orbit and have a different orbit period, so the Mayan calender should not be constant at all.
@Pavel Smutny Says:
"2.I made simulatians for Planet X and for more distant Nemesis in WINORSA but you don’t want to hear about it."
Yes I will and I want to check if your results also holds up when using gravity in the simulation.
If you have any experiance with these simulations then you will notice some interestig problems that makes it very very hard to actually get a realistic orbit that BOTH has a excentric orbit, that has the orbit synchronized with the mayan calender and actually get close enough to Earth to has some meaningfull differentional gravitatonal influence that is bigger that Earths moon!
So please give me your orbital elements and mass of Planet X so I can run a simulation.
But first answer me these question:
Since you have those simulations then you will give me these numbers.
* What is the mass of Nemisis?
* What is the mass of Planet X?
* How far is Nemisis from our sun?
* What are the current coordinates in 3D inluding the 3D velocities of Nibiru right now.
* How close will it get to Earth?
* What happens to our moon?
* How long is the duration of one Earths year after Nibiru has passed! Don't tell me that it is still one 365.25 days since that would mean that Nibiru is massless and had no effect whatsoever on Earth!
If there is a Nemisis, then the sun and Nemisis together will have come central point between them that they both revolve around. So what is the period to have one complete 360 degree rotation? This should be clearly visible when observing stars that we have a paralax shift on addition of the paralax shift of the orbit from earth around the sun.
@Pavel Smutny Says:
"3.Albedo of Planet X,( if X is superdensty but with dimensions smaller than our Moon) can be such, that even from distance less than 1,5billion km you don’t see X, even with big telescopes. X though 25mass of Jupiter but with dimensions of our Moon can’t be seen even with magnitude +15, +17 due to its very black color."
Pure BS, 25 masses of jupiter will generate a gravitational influence that is exactly the same as 25 times the mass of youpiter even if it is schrunk in a point and has the darkest black you can find. Orbits of planets should change.
And a pure black object the size of the moon will block starlight once in a while, so it should be detectable.
@Pavel Smutny Says:
"When I gave coordinates to Mike Brown for possible position of X and he found after some days Sedna over there it was surprise. Nobody/no well known astronomer wanted to realise, to admit that such big and bright body can be so close to us. 5 comparable big planetoids afterward were discovered close behind Pluto!"
Please give me those coordinates and orbital elements! So I can check it for myself. We have the orbital elements of Senda so I can check if you were right.
I already can prove this to be complete BS since back in 1992 when Planet X entered the distance of orbit of pluto, senda was located almost 135 degree at the opposite side of the solar system making it nearly the furthes distance from sedna to nibiru you can have.
Look at the facts:
Sedna at 9 august 2003:
Heliocentric
X: 59.41 au
Y: 64.58 au
Z: -18.47 au
Nibiru at 9 august 2003:
Heliocentric
X: -0.60 au
Y: -22.30 au
Z: -8.07 au
Distance Nibiru – Sedna is 106 au!!!
April 17th, 2009 at 4:01 pm
Olaf sir what exactly are you trying to prove here, that nibiru exists? or that it doesn't exist?
April 17th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
And Pavel Smutny, if you have done real simulations the you will have noticed very interesting things.
In order to find the orbit of Nibiru you have to know 4 things, first where is the Earth at 21 dec 2012! so now you can plot a path from earth directon of the sun since the Sun will be in one of it focusses.
Second how close will it get to Earth.
This is important because this will determin the velocity when it crosses Earth.
I noticed some closes match to be 1.5 AU, but at that distance there is no way that this could influence earth at all, and surely not a single day event!
If it gets near Earth the the escape velocity of any object to escape from our solar system is 42.1 km/s
According to my simulation Niboru has a speed of 42.35 closest point to Earth:
Heliocentric
X: 0.0152707673438813 au
Y: 0.983679709625691 au
Z: -0.0522441048673913 au
Velocity X: 0.218871387820354 km/s
Velocity Y: 0.0459915934376656 km/s
Velocity Z: 42.3516187062702 km/s
So it is damned near the speed of escape velocity to NEVER EVERr return if it gets at the wrong side of Earth that gets a gravity assist.
Third what is the orbital period?
Not really important to get some coordinates but might be interesting
fourth what is it's mass?
Very important to know the nfluence on Earth.
So Pavel Smutny, show me your coordinates and orbital elements?
April 17th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
@Tenshu
I try to prove that Nibiru cannot simply exist!
But in order to do this, I tried to find a orbital elements of a planet that described this planet Nibiru to check if it "COULD" exist.
Since no one could give me some answers, I tried to find them myself. It took me a few weeks to find an orbit that could work, but the orbit is so unstable that it is just imposible to have a planet like Nibiru on that date, close enough to earth, that has the orbit described by many confusing sites.
I mean it is easy to call it BS without checking for yourself if it is indeed BS. So I searched for things that can actualy prove the BS and why. I mean having real numbers that people can actually check for themselves.
The orbit is IMPOSSIBLE for Nibiru because it is so eccentric when you take real gravity into account and calculate the numbers.
Also some people clame that they have done simulations, so I wanted to call them bluff by having real simulations and numbers myself!
April 17th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
oh ok, sorry to bother you then dude.
April 17th, 2009 at 4:55 pm
No problem Tenshu,
it was an interesting learning experience.
I now have a very good feeling of orbits and gravity doing this.
I just got fed up with the fear of these Nibiru con artist people are trying to put people on to to get rid of their money by selling some magnetic bricks that will protect them.
I did do some discussions but these con artists are so manipulative that it is nearly impossible to have any discussion with them, so I choose for the hard evidence with real numbers that other people can check for themselves independingly. These hard numbers seem to do the trick to chase away the con artists and also make people realize that Nibiru is pure fake!
I would live to do some further scientific studies in this nibiru trying to find all orbits with different masses and so, but I need some AI intelligence in my simulations that finds the orbits for different parameters like mass and orientation if the orbit like different inclinations. The 90 degree inclination actually is the the least detactable orbit Nibiru could have that has the least influence of the orbits on our planets, and still the simulation clearly shows that Nibiru CAN NOT EXIST.
I just want to prevent that people kill themselves because they are afraid of the planet X, that does not exist in reality..
April 17th, 2009 at 6:30 pm
I won't post links, but have a look for Dr. Tadashi Mukai at Kobe University who is projecting a planet beyond Pluto with a highly elliptical orbit and Its diameter is expected as 10,000-16,000km (rougly the same
as the size of earth).
also look for title: An Outer Planet Beyond Pluto and Origin of the Trans-Neptunian Belt Architecture
Patryk Sofia Lykawka, Tadashi Mukai
(Accepted for publication in The Astronomical Journal)
please consider: the first planet image around another sun (not ours) by the Hubble filmed a planet on a highly elliptical orbit around its sun. Until this footage, astronomers had never seen a planet on such a highly elliptical orbit. This led astronomers to ask how such a planet would extend so far into the depths of space and still continue its orbit back in our direction.
as well, from xfacts: When we pointed Hubble at new solar systems found, an interesting pattern seemed to emerge. Almost 90% of external solar systems had "2 suns", a binary solar system.
Immediately the idea of a "planet X" in our solar system started to seem more possible with the idea that we also have 2 suns. (binary) However our "other sun" is a failed star or Brown dwarf. Due to the immense dust clouds and debris in space, we have not been able to properly image this star. However the research presented by Dr. Muller at Berkley suggested Nemesis. He projected a large planet that orbited this failed sun dislodged comets in the Ourt cloud sending that debris towards earth inevitably killing the dinosaurs.
Some food for thought eh gang?
April 17th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
weather a a nibiruru will travel with theour solar system as it passes through the plane of the Milky Way, the FACT that this passing has been detailed by many cultures before and the time-lines fit ( along with erosion ) of ancient artificacts left the last time through gives me pause that the current "PTB" of Earth have once more fracked up up a better "Golden Path" to bring more of humanity and it's technological advancements THROUGH the transitions intact than the last bunch did.
With Abydos and other ancient machinery left behind it is apparent there was NO coherent and sustained effort to keep the BEST of Earth, Mars and other LIFE and structures we might have had before the last tumble through the wisps of the spirl arms.
And THAT is too bad becasue as "The Declaration of Independance "says:
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. "
I think the Illuminati/Masons/Bidebergeres and others in charge now in cahoots with the military inusturial complex have fraxked our chance to save much of what we have and come out the other side of with more than we did before.
And it is NOT juts the extra gammma radiation, but…rotation, rotation, rotation which will swing our plnetary bodies into new orbits along with their electric charge changes that will happen.
Course I just had my 3rd heart attack and could be dead by 2012 too. For we are ALL basically, physciollogy, physchycollogy just more watery plasma held togther by sparks across the holes of our minds. One electron moving across the synapse (hole) to another neuron…billions of times over…how ofter per heartbeat?
April 18th, 2009 at 3:16 am
Lets be sensible and lets not forget Chiron. Firstly for reasons given in other posts, Mayen calender predictions are nonsense as is Planet X and Nabiru. But Chiron is a rogue comet type body currently circulating the sun at around the distance of Neptune, after having been, probably, expelled from the Kuiper belt of comets and with a diameter or around 180 miles. If such an object collided with this planet all life on Earth would be destroyed. There are currently estimated to be around 30,000 comets in the Kuiper belt and maybe double that amount in the more distant Oort cloud but that is speculation. There are probably more Pluto size objects to be discovered in the kuiper belt and there could be much larger ones in the Oort cloud. At this time there is no evidence whatsoever that any of these objects threaten this planet however that could change. The Centaura System which contains our nearest star apart fromt he Sun is currently around 4.2 light years distant, in 25,000 years it will be around 3.3 light years distant which could be near enough to disrupt both areas of comets. Even so it would take a long time for these larger objects to reach us and we would have plenty of warning. By then we should have the ability to adjust the orbit of the planet if threatened. SO there is not much to worry about. A much greater worry at this time is world wide inflation due to the stupidity of Central bankers, the answer to that is to buy gold. Roger.
April 18th, 2009 at 7:18 am
@ aspaceguy: Here's a link to the 80 page paper by Lykawka and Mukai : http://arxiv.org/abs/0712.2198 . It would be nice to see additional papers that either validate or refute their analysis, but their conclusions seem dubious. Clear confirmation of their hypothesis is needed. Extraordinary claims like this need extraordinary evidence beyond the assertions of a single paper. @ Olaf, thanks for providing some useful info and taking the time to nail down some of these absurd claims. Your questions to Pavel seem valid and reasonable. Your post on the positions of Sedna and 'Nibiru' say alot about the veracity of the claims of Pavel. (BTW, how do you make any sense out of most of his posts? Obviously English is not his native language. He could definitely use the help of a translator, but, in the end, it would probably be just English gibberish).
April 18th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Funny Jon, you go from intelligence to end with simply insult. WTF.
A line from this article:
Planet X and Nemesis are hypothetical objects with more grounding in ancient prophecy and doomsday theories based on pseudo-science.
So a Dr Muller from Berkley and a Dr. Tadashi Mukai of Kobe University are pseudo science or 'nonsense'?
Mukai here with a piece of work accepted for publication in the Astronomical Journal?
Truly this is a perfect example of my earlier post.
Time to grow up and get educated and open minded. Those two gentlemen and their premises were just two from the 'public domain', there are numerous other scholars and academics working that most of you will not see on this site or at the common tier.
Further, while I do not think this apocalyptic theme being peddled has anything right now to do with 12th planet or one of lore named Niburu, there is most definitely a serious amount of material that is 'public', showing high level activity around the concern for defense of earth and continuity of the species in regards to NEO's and Comets.
So make no mistake, there is a significant number of known impact craters the world over and notably North America. There are cycles of bombardment, well known in science. Look for a pdf titled SHIELD: A Comprehensive Earth Protection System. Again public available material and presented as planning phases….but stretch a little and read between the lines.
Huge money is currently being spent addressing this primary concern. Thats fact, not nonsense.
There is so much more, but this is not the domain for serious discussion, as evidenced by this article and its notable 'tone'.
April 18th, 2009 at 11:07 am
I made detailed simulations for Nibiru+ for more distant Nemesis in Winorsa. Though it looks impossible,….at such big masses, I was able to do simulations till circa 26000years, due to big memory, processor loading,…If Nibiru,…is here millions, billions years, so everything had been synchronised, but only when all parameters of orbits were appropriate it quite worked in symulations at Nibiru mass till 20 Jupiters, and more distant Nemesis on circa circular orbit in distance cca 150AU,….mass cca 30Jupiters,… Orbits of planets weren’t unchanged after more periods of Nibiru but were quite stable.
Winorsa parametres
for Nibiru: 0,020, 135, 0,9934, 30, 90, 270, 180
for Nemesis: 0,05, 880, 0 30, 90, 270, 180
circa these values but mass of Nibiru put less than 0,025,…important is start time for synchronisation,….
April 18th, 2009 at 11:20 am
Don't forget, that only model of our solar system with Nibiru,…Nemesis can absolutly satisfactory explain Noah flood, when even Ararat (5000m above sea level) was flooded, It can explain how it is possible that rests of that ark is in 2000m height, also big achors are over there too. Presence of Nibiru can explain also that North pole shifted sudenly circa 15-20 degrees 11500 before present. It explains massive extinguishing of many animal sorts in that time, sudden climat change when G. Britain Germany, Poland,…lost ice cover till 3000m thick,…
April 18th, 2009 at 11:22 am
Don't forget, that only model of our solar system with Nibiru,…Nemesis can absolutly satisfactory explain Noah flood, when even Ararat (5000m above sea level) was flooded, It can explain how it is possible, that rests of that ark is in 2000m height, also big anchors are over there too. Presence of Nibiru can explain also that North pole shifted suddenly circa 15-20 degrees 11500 before present. It explains massive extinguishing of many animal sorts in that time, sudden climate change when G. Britain Germany, Poland,…lost ice cover till 3000m thick,…
April 18th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
[...] Constraining the Orbits of Planet X and Nemesis [...]
April 18th, 2009 at 1:39 pm
[...] Today: Constraining the Orbits of Planet X and Nemesis por Ian [...]
April 18th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Eternos Aprendizes what are you posting, i can't read spanish so mind telling me what this site is supposed to mean?
April 18th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Ok Pavel Smutny , please can you tell me a link for windows that I can actually download this program? I can't seem to get it.
And what do these parameters mean?
Winorsa parametres
for Nibiru: 0,020, 135, 0,9934, 30, 90, 270, 180
for Nemesis: 0,05, 880, 0 30, 90, 270, 180
0.020 of what? Km, miles, au? lightyears?
Mass? what?
And what exactly have you simulated? Only the sun, Nemisis and Nibiru or the complete solar system with the all the planets at the correct location.
So according to your simulation what are the x,y,z coordinates of Nibiry right now? and what are the x,y,z velocities? And where is Nemisis right now?
Also during your simulation how close did it get to earth?
Also something wierd about a Nemisis at 150 au! What orbital perdiod does it have in years? A thousands year?
April 18th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Ok Pavel Smutny, I am tryig to simulate this bu on an other simulator.
So Nibiru is 20 jupiter masses, Nemisis is 30 jupiter masses, and Nemisis is at a circular orbit around the sun at a distance of 150 au?
So what is the closes point from Nibiru to Nemisis? If I reverse track it, then it should give a stable resonance orbit or somehow since Nibiru is in a stable orbit right now otherwise the Mayan's could not have predicted it.
My simulation is running, but doesnt seem any stable orbit since 20 jupiters and 30 jupiters, Nibru just made the orbit of Nemisis haywire.
I will come back to this when I find a stable orbit but I doubt this very much if I see the results right now.
I don't need to run the simulation for 26.000 years, I only jave to know the positions of all planets and stars ar 21 december 2012 and I can backtrack it.
The position if the Sun, earth and Nibru is known, so we can backtrack to find where Nemisis would have been last time Nibiru had passed.
April 18th, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Pavel Smutny, acording to your information you have me, 20 Jupiter masses Nibru, 30 Jupiter masses Nemesis, Nemesis 150 AU from the sun in a circular orbit, well Nibiru has a orbital period of about 750 years!
And Nemisis a period of 1500 years.
But acording to this simulation Nibiru fails to orbit both Nemisis and our Sun after 2 orbits so if Nemesis exists or not, it has no real importance to Nibiru.
These are not what I call stable orbits that can be predicted over a period of thousands of years!
April 18th, 2009 at 6:24 pm
Wowowo!!!!
We are 6 orbits further (back in the past) and Nibiru is clearly disrupting our solar system!
Especially 3 outer planets Pluto, Neptune and Uranus orbits are shifting from the typical plane where all the planets except pluto is orbitting! We are 2450 BC now.
This was predicted with my previous simulations, you cannot let a 20 jupiter mass go through the solar system close to Earth and not disrupt our solar system! Basically this means that a planet like Nibiru was never here before and it should be clearly visible in the 3 outer planets if something was arriving!
It proves it again, there is no Nibiru coming!
April 18th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
Wel we are 3500 BC, the orbital period of Earth is now 284 days, we see no evidence of this in any archeology and chinese stronomy. None of the planets are at their place now,
Earth and Venus actually crosses their orbits, Saturn is getting pretty close to Jupiters orbit, this means trouble when they get near each other.
A 20 jupiter mass planet that crosses the orbits of the planets to get close enough to get to Earth is clearly impossible.
And it is also clearly that Nemisis has nothing to do with Nibiru anymore since Nibiru does ot orbit it anymore.
A resonance orbit between Nibiru and Nemesis could happen, BUT Nibru should clearly stay outside the outer panets orbit! But that would also mean that there is no way that this Nibru could get any close to Earth enough to actually have any influence!
April 18th, 2009 at 11:31 pm
for Olaf,….Nibiru's orbital period given for Winorsa is not 750, but circa 1500 years and Nemesis orbital period is aprox. 26000years,….why 750 and 1500years?!
Nibiru's a is 135AU and Nemesis' a is 880AU. But Nibiru is on extremly excentric eliptical orbit, so aphelia is more than 270AU from us, but Nemesis is on aprox. circular orbit so aphelia is till 1000Au from us.
April 19th, 2009 at 12:12 am
I think i'm way out of my league with this discussion i'll leave it to the pro's lol, but Pavel i must ask you what are you trying to prove, that nibiru does or does not exist cause i'd like to know?
April 19th, 2009 at 1:10 am
Teneshu,..I want to prove existance of Nibiru. Are Bible, Enuma Elish, Mayan codexes, old ancient egyptian, chinese,… texts,….only products of someones phantasy?! Definetly not! There are evidences of their right true sources,… Ararat was flooded, even China till snow line was flooded,…There was even prescribed way how to desalinate Chinese lowlands after flood,…Noah's flood -there was 40days of rain, 150 days water was extremly high,..after another 150 days it went down,…and waters were rising and decesing/retrieving-typical sign of extreme tidal forces. If That Big flood, its main part lasted one year so it means that it caused body what was close to perihelia circa 1year. It means that Nibiru crossed path of asteroids, went to perihelia minimum circa 120mil. km from Sun and back into band of asteroids between Mars and Jupiter within one year. It again mean that perihelia of Nibiru was 120-400mil km from Sun,…but more probably it was number close to 150mil km.
April 19th, 2009 at 7:56 am
@ spaceguy, above you have said "Immediately the idea of a “planet X” in our solar system started to seem more possible with the idea that we also have 2 suns. (binary) However our “other sun” is a failed star or Brown dwarf. Due to the immense dust clouds and debris in space, we have not been able to properly image this star. However the research presented by Dr. Muller at Berkley suggested Nemesis." I know you don't like to give links in your posts, but I must ask for links to peer-reviewed, published papers from 'Dr. Muller' mentioning Nemesis or an unseen brown dwarf in orbit around the Sun. Really any paper, in, say the last 5 years that can back up some of your claims? I can't seem to find any papers from Dr Muller at Berkley that involve "Nemesis" or a brown dwarf star orbiting the Sun. Do you have any links to peer-reviewed, published papers regarding these two objects by Dr Muller?
April 19th, 2009 at 8:07 am
Mike Brown's excellent Sedna page (for any out there wondering what all this Sedna stuff is about) can be found here: http://web.gps.caltech.edu/~mbrown/sedna/ .
April 19th, 2009 at 9:01 am
@ Olaf, I too, was wondering the effects of a 20-30 Jupiter mass object anywhere near 150 AU from the Sun. I don't need simulator software to tell me this would produce easily observable differences in the position of all the planets and quite a few smaller objects. But I do applaud you're efforts to nail down the reality (or falsehood ) of this claim. This type of celestial mechanics is rather "Velikovskyian" (is that how you say it?), to say the least.
April 19th, 2009 at 9:43 am
Jon Hanford- Here is a link to his web site
http://muller.lbl.gov/
There is an article on Nemesis, however I did not see any peer reviewed papers on the subject-
April 19th, 2009 at 2:03 pm
Maysn one:"What happens when our calender runs out>"
Mayan two: "We flip the page>"
Mayan one: "maybe we should put I note to do so on the calander."
Mayan two:"Why?"
Mayan one "Maybe somebody will think the world will end the."
Mayan two "what kind of idiot would bleive that?"
April 19th, 2009 at 7:52 pm
My use of a few quoted astronomical observations and two examples that I found of decently credentialed members of the astronomy community, was intended to show that the subject of Ian O'neils article can not be so readily dismissed.
While I see the real target of his article is the hyperbole about 2012 and the myth making product sellers associated with it.
My point is this. Amidst the static and fiction, the truth is being told. Often hiding in plain site, yet often not seen because of the rigid ostrich effect and the dis-info agenda meant to obscure and deflect attention away from it.
Do you see a number of references here to Sedna? 10 years ago or so, it would not have been something in the public dialogue and certainly not entertained and considered with respect. Now today, its like 'oh ya Sedna out beyond Pluto' with casual assuredness.
Ever consider a body like Ceres? Experts are expecting water in some form and lots of it relative to Earth's. We will know soon enough.
So in a few years, when we are past 2012, and lets say for discussion sake, full disclosure occurs and we find out we were already space faring and you hear about the secret space program that already existed. Forget 'What' it was for. Just that realization alone would show you …things are a lot bigger than you thought and the Universe is much more unknown than we really want to admit. The leading edge of mankind is much farther than the so-called public is informed of.
OK, no big conspiracy to me in this thought, but I would sure have a more open mind about 'what is and what isn't' from it.
In other words, we don't know a dang thing really and the dooms day crowd are not 'that' far off, what is occurring right now.
So, a period of time passes whereby things are turbulent and activated and the Earth and humanity surfs through it. We will come out the other side of this event-window that happens to transit 'through' the noted date Dec 21, 2012 and we will see how much of the 'guessing', that the general public had to do, was right.
…and for the stuff they weren't, there will still be a few new discoveries to blow our minds anyway and onward we will all go.
April 19th, 2009 at 8:02 pm
Why is it 83% of all known comets are said to come from one source? I'm just wondering.
They seem to be discovering an awful lot of "Kreutz Sungrazer Comets these days?
Lots more 'bolids' too. Flaming Fireballs getting kind of regular.
April 19th, 2009 at 9:01 pm
so aspaceyguy you believe that this is simply disinformation overall and that something bad will happen in 2012 after all? is that what your saying?
April 20th, 2009 at 6:09 am
My comments were fairly straight forward. Not much else to say.
What is 'something bad'? China's earthquake or the Summatra Tsunami…a bad hurricane or the 'swarms' of tornadoes that now occur each season in the U.S.?
Stuff is already occurring. Call it climate change, call it global 'warming', better yet many call it 'solar system warming'. There is lots going on all the way through this period.
2012 is not a single event finish line and it surely is not 'The End'.
I think there will be more extreme weather and I think they are acting to defend against asteroid impacts. Think meteor 'shower'. None of that is way out or crazy and if one uses some common sense and searches the net, there is lots of evidence showing the scientific focus in those areas.
Think of Dec 21, 2012 like the Winter Solstice that it is. A turning point.
This is 'already' the storm before the calm.
April 20th, 2009 at 10:00 am
i'm sorry if i misunderstood you, i was just confused by your wording.
April 20th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Ok I have been simulating Pavel Smutny Nemisis at it clearly shows me that a planet like Nibiru was never here before and is not coming in 2012 and this is why:
First of all, a 20 jupiter mass, no matter the size it is, the size of a Jupiter, the size of a big bag of plumes, the size of a pea… It bends space in a spherical way and both the pea and the sack of plumes will influence the other planets the exact same way.
Second, look at our solar system, all planets with the exception of Pluto orbits in nearly the same plane and all orbits are nearly circular. This only is proof that no big 20 jupiter mass ever passed through our solar system and that none is coming. Since a planet that has 20 jupiter masses will do 3 things:
* Make all orbits of all planets in our solar system more eleptical.
* Make all orbits of all planets in our solar system tilt.
* The gravity assist will change the orbit of all solar planets and also Nibiru itself!
Now since Nibiru will travel trough our solar system for a period of 20 years, we should see this effect of tilt, elleptical and orbital period in the outer planets fiirst, and clearly WE SEE NO EVIDENCE OF ANY GRAVITATIONAL INFLUENE RIGHT NOW!
You can check this easily by bying a pair of binoculars and check for yourself using 50 year old orbital elements that all the planets are at the expected positions like nothing is out there.
Now does the fact that Nemisis exist and that Nibiru orbits it too have any influence on the influence on our solar system? The answer is NO! To make matters worse having a Nemisis out there makes the Nibiru orbit even more unstable and unpredictable.
The reason is this: Since Nibiru comes form far out of our solar system, the orbital path it will travel if it comes from 350 AU, 150 AU will nearly be the same since it's eccentricity wil be close to 0.9 and higher. But clearly Nibiru gets influenced by our solar system too, and gets orbits change so next time it gets to Nemisis it woun't be at the same location and clearly in the simulation I see it misses Nemis all together after the second orbit.
I will continue on another part…
April 20th, 2009 at 2:02 pm
Continued…
So if Pavel Smutny's theory would be correct then it would mean that all our solar planets were not aligned in one plane last time Nibru got her 750-15000 years ago and aligned them in a plane and made the orbits circular and next time after 2012 again it will make them chaotic again. This is possible but highly improbable since we would have seen these in astronimcal records of ancient cultures.
So clearly Nibiru could not be 20 Jupiter masses. It must be much lighter in order to get through our solar system not to infected too much our planets.
But here again, a lighter Nibiru gives 2 problems, first it gets inflenced by our solar system changing it's orbit even worse so the orbital period of Nibiru is completely unpredictable.
Also a Nibiru lighter would also mean that it should get the hell closer to Earth to have any influence. Look at how close the Moon is to only have a 6 meter difference of our sea!
Now try to get a planet with an unpredictable orbit like Nibiru that has a eccentricity of 0.9 or higher to get right there at the place close enough to Earth in any simulator. This is damned near impossile and imagin that you have to do this again on the next orbit!
To be continued next message
April 20th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
Continued…
Ok let's talk about the influence of Nibiru on Earth if it did get here by some extremely lucky chance. .
Look at all the reports about how Nibiru will flip the poles, have massive earth quackes… Nice in theory but no report tells you about the obvious effect a planet like Nibiru will have even if it comes not close enough. IT WILL CHANG EARTHS ORBIT BEFORE IT EVER GETS CLOSE ENOUGH! We would see this because our atomic clocks would clearly show that we are NOT IN A 365.25 YEAR orbit anymore. All our solar planets would have been off and would be detected by all amateur astronomers by now because all the stars are at the wornd positions..
Ok let's assume that by some magic our planets and earths orbit somehow magically do not get influenced, how close should a Nibiru has to pass in order to have these massive earth quackes, tsunamies,…
First you have to realize that the inverse square law of gravity means that the gravity gradient is is much higher close to the object than further. I mean a planet with 1 jupiter size passing at 1 million km will have almost no effect on our planets since all matter on all the sides of our planet will have the nearly the same gravitational attraction so the net effect will be that nothing happens.
But an object that gets to 300.000 km will have a much bigger gravity gradient so the closest side will be attracted a bit more than the other side so you get these tsunami's.
Again try to get an planet with an eccentricity of 0.9 or higher close enough to Earth that is damned near impossible!
And make stuff even worse, a Nibiru will have a speed of 42 km/s when it crosses earths path, that is 120.000 km/hour so any gravitational influence will be completely nothing since it passes 120 times the speed of a bullet. Since the influence of gravity is based on the strength and the DURATION, this would mean that Nibiru could not make any gravitational influence on Earth strng enough te have any effect except or a small tsunamy ripple if maybe a cm or 2!
To be continued next message
April 20th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Continued…
Ok let's assume that the Mayans were that smart that they could predict Nibiru… And that Nibiru magically aligned all our 8 planets in our solar system and put them in a near spherical orbit last time it got here.
The probem is this, the planet Nibiru will influence all orbits of our solar system including Earth and all solar planets will change the orbit of Nibiru. Tis is how gravity works, it all amss inflences all other mass!
So did the Mayan calender take this into account, that some periods of Earth has 281 days per year and Nibiru lets say 1500, and the next orbit Earths orbital period is 390 days/year and Nibiru maybe 1436???
Ah yes Niboru is too light to influence Earths orbit, from distance, but then again you still have the orbit change of Niburu by all other planets so Nibru will not have a constant 1500 period but will range 1450, 1700, 1750 after every close encounter of our solar system (yes gravity assist!!! of all other planets!) Is there any evidence of the Mayan calender that it is dynamic? Does the Mayan calender have none-fixed calender periods?
Did the Mayans move their 3000 old
building that marks the position in the heavens after the next transition to make sure that everything is aligned again?
What about the theory of the Mayans were perfect astronomers? Do you really believe that the end of the Mayan cycle will end on an astronomical none-interesting date like 21 12 2012 where the moon and none of the planets not even the center of the sun is aligned to something astronomical interesting? Just look at the positions of the moon and the solar system, astronomically no interesting position.
Basically, could something happen on 21 dec 2012? Yes some religious nut believing that the end is near could push the nulcear buttons starting a global nuclear war.
But it won't be something called Nibru because every evidence points to the fact that there is nothing our there that descirbes a planet like Nibiru!
April 20th, 2009 at 2:47 pm
I am interesting in a video clip, maybe put on youtube from Pavel Smutny, that actually shows his simulation where he can clearly show that his simulation let a planet like Nibiru passes through our solar system that is 20 jupiter sizes, that clearly shows that all our solar planets stay in their near circular orbit and stay in their same eleptic plane without change of orbital period, especially Earth that has this 365.25 year orbital period before and after Nibiru has passed and still gets in time to Nemisis just in time to get sent back to Earth again with an extreme eccentric orbit.
I don't want to see one complete orbit I want to seen 10 orbits of Nibiru.
Yes I do believe that Pavel Smutny can simulate a solar system with pretty stable orbit of all planets because of resonence factors, and NO I DO NOT believe that this simulated solar system will look exactly like our solar system!
The solar system that Pavel will have is a solar system where none of the planets are aligned in a plane and none of the planets will have a near circular orbit just like our solar system has. Especially not after 10 passes of Nibiru!
If you people still believe after all this evidence I have posted that Nibiru is out there, then you deserve to be scared all day long and hide in caves and give all your money to con artists that ride the wave of fear to get rid of your money by offering you some magic brick.
April 20th, 2009 at 2:54 pm
I too wish to comment on this article, however from a purely common sense side and then a business side of things. You see it does not take a rocket scientist to understand that no one likes being made fun of and your remarks regarding stupidity had nothing whatsoever to do with the people trying to make a buck on those stupid and naive people. No it was directed at your readers. Now who is the more stupid one? I submit it would be youand not the readers that you have likely forever lost due to your rather lacking sense of business, understanding and class.
I think the comments section proves conclusively, that what is being circulated on the net regarding this doomsday scenario, is far more rational and based in some pretty real information (valid or devised) and that you have opened your arse to speak in this article.
You know, the sad thing about all this is simply that it shows just how desperate this world is for truth. We have been without honest integrity and open governments for so damn long that we become amateur investigators ourselves. Think about it for a second… we have paid for a space program in our tax dollars since its inception,yet we continually get back photographs that are blurry and airbrushed? Oh no worries, we did not notice that. Never mind that we are all fully aware that some pictures are magically brilliant and crisp and sharp resolution, just by accident, I am sure why the ones we want to see are blurred and altered.
Bottom line, sir is that people are sick and tired of being called stupid and to be honest its not as if it were their faults even if what you said about them was close to being true.. If people in the media and governments and elite would allow them to know what the heck is really going on then, maybe you would only need to show your lack of tact and insult your own readers once a year. LOL Even I know better than that!!
I do agree with you though on your stand against the people trying to profit by taking advantage of the fears of others. However, only if this has been done with intent . I don't feel this is the case with all of these people. Clearly there is more than 5 ancient cultures that have something to say about this period of time and we are seeing serious UFO appearing non stop and increasingly, as well as some lower ranges in the electromagnetic frequency and heating in several planets within our solar system. I think there is more than enough going on here to cause an average, kept in the dark person, to remain in an alerted state.
Case in point.. Seti has been listening for UFOs now for how long?? LOL Yet we get hundreds of sitings a day around the planet. Oops perhaps they were on a break and missed them ? There is so much BS liars and power hungry people its just becoming part of life to ignore them. We need to do something for each other , certainly calling people stupid is not going in the right direction. The stupid one here is a very debatable issue. NO OFFENSE.! Seriously, said it cause you needed to hear it that's all.
April 20th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
I too wish to comment on this article, however from a purely common sense side and then a business side of things. You see it does not take a rocket scientist to understand that no one likes being made fun of.Secondly, your remarks regarding stupidity had nothing whatsoever to do with the people trying to make a buck on those stupid and naive people. No it was directed at your readers. Now who is the more stupid one? I submit it would be you and not the readers that you have likely forever lost due to your rather lacking sense of business, understanding and class.
I think the comments section proves conclusively, that what is being circulated on the net regarding this doomsday scenario, is far more rational and based in some pretty real information (valid or devised) and that you have opened your arse to speak in this article.
You know, the sad thing about all this is simply that it shows just how desperate this world is for truth. We have been without honest integrity and open governments for so damn long that we become amateur investigators ourselves. Think about it for a second… we have paid for a space program in our tax dollars since its inception,yet we continually get back photographs that are blurry and airbrushed? Oh no worries, we did not notice that. Never mind that we are all fully aware that some pictures are magically brilliant and crisp and sharp resolution, just by accident, I am sure why the ones we want to see are blurred and altered.
Bottom line, sir is that people are sick and tired of being called stupid and to be honest its not as if it were their faults even if what you said about them was close to being true.. If people in the media and governments and elite would allow them to know what the heck is really going on then, maybe you would only need to show your lack of tact and insult your own readers once a year. LOL Even I know better than that!!
I do agree with you though on your stand against the people trying to profit by taking advantage of the fears of others. However, only if this has been done with intent . I don't feel this is the case with all of these people. Clearly there is more than 5 ancient cultures that have something to say about this period of time and we are seeing serious UFO appearing non stop and increasingly, as well as some lower ranges in the electromagnetic frequency and heating in several planets within our solar system. I think there is more than enough going on here to cause an average, kept in the dark person, to remain in an alerted state.
Case in point.. Seti has been listening for UFOs now for how long?? LOL Yet we get hundreds of sitings a day around the planet. Oops perhaps they were on a break and missed them ? There is so much BS liars and power hungry people its just becoming part of life to ignore them. We need to do something for each other , certainly calling people stupid is not going in the right direction. The stupid one here is a very debatable issue. NO OFFENSE.! Seriously, said it cause you needed to hear it that's all.
April 21st, 2009 at 12:48 am
For Olaf. I made more serious researches concerning Planet X-Nibiru,…concerning ancient artefacts-ancient astronomical maps, megalitic buildings, structures,..I wrote book about it,…
My reward was that I was accused from magic, ocultism and was fired from post on University,…also because those researches, which were made in my free time. Some Johns Blacks maybe used some my discoveries,…and they have profit. My total profit but was less than 100USD from sale of book,…I made also lot of symulations for Planet X, Nemesis in Winorsa,..It took weeks, maybe months of time. I gave even all significant data for public to various astronomers but they don't want work with those data,…If there are not professional astronomers with serious interest for Planet X/ Nibiru,..Nemesis arrival to perihelia in 2012, so maybe world will end similar way how it was in Noahs time. Politicians, their servants scientiests can cheat public nearly till the end, but when public recognise what is true, so only maybe some politicians could escape but not scientiests.
April 21st, 2009 at 2:10 am
Great thanks!!
more real than most think!!!!!!
PLANET X THE REAL CAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING.2009
http://www.mininova.org/tor/2503356
April 21st, 2009 at 4:46 am
Olaf, look on analogy, on models comparable with our Solar system. There are atoms with 1,2,…90 electrons orbiting around nuclei. Orbitals of electrons in various states have various shapes and everything works, is stable but only when it is synchronised, if we put there or take out one more neutron,…there is chain reaction. it is not easy to find exact orbit of X and of Nemesis when everything works 100 percent,…when I made symulations with Nemesis, X, Uranus, Neptune, earth with moon and Wenus it took one simulation half an hour,…you must change position, inclination, time of aphelia of X many times till circa succesfull result,…
April 21st, 2009 at 4:50 am
Saturn and Jupiter there were in symul. too, but not Mars, Mercury, Pluto,…because extremly long times for symulations,…also there were more approximations due to long computing time, crashes of systems,…overloaded memories 2GB and more,…
April 22nd, 2009 at 8:16 pm
Listen the universe is just a giant version of an atom. Material surrounded by energy bound to a center point of something we haven't figured out yet. One should assume that the universe is a giant sphere where the surface is near equidistance from the center point. Surrounding the universe is a nutrino enrgy field that is probably very similar to the same thing that is in the center point holding it all together. Energy flows from and back to the center point. Within space there are Megagalaxies, combined galaxies, combining galaxies, singular galaxies, star clusters, star groupings, star pairings, and single stars. The same can be said for material in space. Out there somewhere there could be a huge system of planets, then planet groupings, planetarty pairs, singular planets, moons, astroids and meteors, meteorites, space rocks, and space dust. You should feel extremely priveleged to be alloud to exist as a singular creature in pairs, in groups, in crouds, in masses, in an entire species. So say what you will about the 2012 theories, but if you follow the true meaning than it is not the end but the beginning of something new. There have been verified reports that seemingly intelligent frequencies have originated from the center of the galaxy. Although they are unknown they are sequenced in a way that almost seems like a signal. Who knows what that means but I assure you that there is no mythology about to occur only factology. We are not alone, we have been wrong before, people who came up with what we know today were considered crack pots to begin with, and now even their supposed LAW's are having to be modified as a result of new discoveries. All you people need to know is that something spectacular is coming. We are teetering on the brink of destruction and the greatest discoveries. It is up to us as individuals to change so the group may change so the species may change. You all know in the back of your minds what must be done but allow yourselves to be consumed with trivial thoughts, emotions, fears, pride, ignorance, greed, envy, and so on. So let it be known that we decide our fate collectively. God is the function of the supreme rule; everything is connected, infinity is zero, and everything, no matter what, eventually makes it back to the source. If we are smart enough than we can return as individuals rather than a bunch of dust and loose energy. Think about it. You 2012 people are so worried about a mistaken prophecy of destruction that you are blind to see that you are causing it. 2012 is when you are all supposed to wake up from primitive thought and join us in our quest to know. Or we can get started early. You all can thank me later.
April 23rd, 2009 at 8:00 am
So very well said.
…and as we enter this described Age of Aquarius, isn't it most interesting to see the trickle trickle of stories weekly at a site like this, pointing to and revealing anew, the presence of water. Water, just about everywhere. From Ceres to Europa to the water geysers on Enceladus to headlines like "Oldest and Most Distant Water in the Universe Detected" from just yesterday(April 22nd), the pattern and theme is becoming clear. Oh yes, even the day before that with "Nearly Earth-sized Planet, Possible Watery World Spotted Near Another Star".
Between the mystics and the astronomers, there was never any 'difference'. They were one in the same. Ever notice how in recent times the language of 'terms' being used more and more describe a universe alive. Watch the terminology, it is not trivial and much of it these days speaks of 'star births' and 'galaxy zoo' and seasons described on Mars etc. and relationships between celestial bodies and galaxies.
As the much loved and respected 'insider' Bob Dean once said about disclosure, "How do you possibly tell humanity they are living in the finest Zoo in the Galaxy?!"
So we come this seemingly important time/transition for humanity, and my gosh the wonderment of life grows each week as they roll out new stories for us of a universe that is dynamic and filled with 'relationships', and complex organics and water and perhaps so much more.
ET's? or just other humanic forms of consciousness?
I'm ok with any of that, as I have thought all along that it is the ultimate hubris and outstanding stupidity to think we are alone and that space was some barren cold wasteland of nothingness as has been the myth for so many years. The egoic arrogance is simply astonishing.
Now is the time for the folks who know, to now attempt to gently unravel that awful mess and share with their fellow people, the truth of this wonderful universe we are 'soaking in' (get it! lol-water joke).
Let humanity move forward, not separated, but together with a measure of clarity. I am just echoing JustinnitsuL from the post above in some ways, but I agree the species must learn to navigate together and steer with a focused collective intent.
Velocity with veracity.
April 23rd, 2009 at 7:08 pm
JustinnitsuL, aspaceyguy you two seem to understand one another, but yet i have no clue as to what your getting at, i don't mean to be rude when i say this but you two speak in riddles and words that are hard to decipher.
For one thing, what do you mean by conciousness? Like something is going to happen to our minds that year? If that's the case then i hope nothing happens, trust me i've read enough crazy theory's on what could happen to our minds..the scariest one being that everything we see will breakdown around us and we will see nothing, hear nothing, and know nothing, until suddenly we will appear before people that are supposed to be our loved ones, it's like life will be reset, and do you know how scary that sounds, to lose everything and be reduced to having nothing? (this is what i meant by something bad aspaceyguy) Seriously though what do you mean by conciousness, i wish to know the answer, and you two seem to have it, but again if that is what is going to happen then i say forget it.
I'm just a simple person who wants to live a simple peaceful life as much as i can, sure i live in an area that has to deal with hurricanes every once in a while.(had to deal with two last year, but that's besides the point) but other than that life is simple and peaceful here, i'm sick and tired of having to live in fear of these 2012 doomsday theorys that constantly pop up, i've been afraid since last years january and ever since then everyday of my life at least once during each day i think of what could happen to us that year, because i am that afraid, you say something good will happen, but others say something bad will happen, it's hard to trust people these days for the truth.
Yes i know the world's messed up, and yes we were responsible for getting it that way, but even so i want to live, as long as i can with nothing happening to change my life from what i've got now because i've got it as good as good can be, again i don't mean to be offensive or rude by saying this but i am so tired of all this as i want to live in peace.
April 25th, 2009 at 8:34 am
Thats the best focus Tenshu. Peace.
Life for anyone is a fragile thing. Health issues or bad weather or perhaps something space like. Don't stress yourself too much..live in the moment and embrace your peace.
Things have changed at this web site, so I can't speak more.
I apologize if I failed to be understood in my previous posts.
Fear not Tenshu. A famous teacher, Leo Buscaglia wrote: Live-Laugh-Learn
April 26th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
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