May 18th, 2008
Comments on "No Doomsday in 2012"
Written by Fraser Cain
These comments were originally posted to the article "No Doomsday in 2012". Unfortunately, there were so many comments that it was crashing my webserver every time it posted them.
If you want to comment on the article, you can do it here.
Filed under: 2012
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May 19th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Thank you for having the patience to make a rational, skeptical argument over something extremely silly. It's sad that the people who believe such silly stuff, however, aren't always welcoming of rationality or skepticism.
May 19th, 2008 at 3:40 pm
thank you for telling people the truth. i mean there's a lot of idiots in my skool that keeps saying the world's going to end at 2012 but now this prooves that its not so thank you
May 19th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Ian,
I was going to write about this. Thanks for taking care of it, so I can get down to more important things.
Ethan
May 19th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
One prediction I've been making since Y2K came and went is that once 2012 is over and done with, there will be another doomsday date for the nuts to glom onto, and it will be between 2020 and 2025 — near enough for idiots to worry about but far enough away for the next doomsday cottage industry to sprout up and take advantage of those idiots.
May 19th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
The next one will be before 2020, these idiots will always hope for something more. The cult of apocalypse attracts those who want something better than what they believe they have and that will never change, even if they think that something better is death.
How do you convince them that the world is pretty fun as is though?
May 19th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
I'm so glad Ian took the time to write this up. You wouldn't believe how many questions we get from people about this.
There is some serious fear mongering going on out there on the Internet. If you've got a blog, please take a second and link to this article so we can try and battle the pseudoscience. Ian's planning on tackling each myth, one by one so we can put the definitive nails on this conspiracy theory – and maybe teach a little science/astronomy at the same time.
May 19th, 2008 at 5:06 pm
I won't feel comfortable about my future until 01.20.09.
May 19th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Actually, there's a serious incorrection in this otherwise great article. You write:
When something ends (even something as innocent as an ancient calendar), people seem to think up the most extreme possibilities for the end of civilization as we know it.
This is wrong. Here's how it would be right:
When something ends (even something as innocent as an ancient calendar), idiots seem to think up the most extreme possibilities for the end of civilization as we know it.
Please correct it ASAP.
May 19th, 2008 at 5:26 pm
To Jorge:
That's too funny
You could also replace "idiots" with "scare-mongering publishers" – it seems as if they usually have a book about the end of the world to sell!
Cheers, Ian
May 19th, 2008 at 5:36 pm
It would be interesting, however, to find out why the Mayans chose August 11th, 3114BC as the start date for the calendar, considering it completely predates their culture. I mean, why start a calendar and then say you are already in the middle of it? They would only, really, have needed to measure, say, 1,000 years before in order to say what happened in the past. There must be an historical reason or a mathematical one, and it'd be interesting to see what it is.
2012, it is said, however, does coincide with the Solar System crossing the Galactic Plane, so maybe this is the reason, considering they were such good astronomers?
May 19th, 2008 at 5:37 pm
I feel it is my duty to scare as many people as possible about this. Why can't we just laugh and revel in the ignorance and fear of others? I have this lady thinking Nibiru is going to come near Earth orbit and an advanced alien civilization is going to take Earth over. Man, it's a riot! Try it, you'll love it!
May 19th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
Perhaps I'm just not a historian, but where did the number 13 come from? I can understand the base 20 system, but 13?
And just to keep this myth alive for the fun of it: the Mayans wanted a calender that lasted for their whole civilization from start to end. Is it possible that this calender had been created in a similar fashion as to the book series "Foundation."- where a guy created some complex formula to predict the rise and fall of whole civilizations and chaos?
May 19th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
To KageTora:
I'm not totally sure why the Long Count starts in 3114BC. Some researchers seem to point toward some superstition or historic event for the choice of that year. I once read that some geological event occurred at this time, and this gave the belief that something bad was going to happen at the end of the caledar too. If you find any more info on this, let us know
To Flaming Pope:
I have no clue where the 13 comes from. researchers seem to have found 20 and 13 to be important numbers in Mayan society. As to the reasons behind this, I don't think anyone can say for sure…
Cheers, Ian
May 19th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
I like the rationality of it all, and the depth of education about the calendar rounds. We say it will end in 2012, but the Mayans, unlike the Judeo-Christian-Islamic worlds we all live in, thought in cyclical time versus linear time. It's complex psychology.
This article is very opinionated. Wow. It actually is designed to calculate dates beyond 2012. It's a cyclical calendar!!!
They have found stelae with dates beyond what we could even conceive. A perfect calendar system is one that perceives no beginning and no end, or rather both as one. Time goes on forever. We're just selfish beings and can only concern ourselves with if we're going to survive, but we're doing it all wrong.
The Mayans were obviously smart. They knew things we could only figure out with technology just 50 years ago. They knew about the galaxy, deified it, and deified time as well. The 260 round is a sacred round, the foundation of Mayan daykeeping. Try practicing it!
Smart in math means smart in science, and the way the Mayans counted were in 20s. You have 10 fingers and toes, 20. Whereas they were thinking vigesimally, in 20s, 400s, 8000s, 160000s, we only think decimally. 10s. 100s. 1000s. Point zero one this, point three four that. It's a downgrade of mathematical skill based on it being a cultural foundation. There is obviously power in number.
May 19th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Actually, numbers in base-10 or in base-20 are entirelly equivalent, mathematically, and so are any other bases you can think of, from binary to whatever number you may wish to use (although after a while it may begin to become cumbersome and hard to remember exactly what's each algarism supposed to mean).
So it's quite nonsensical to say that calculations performed in base 10 are "downgraded" relative to calculations performed in base 20. The level of mathematical skill required is precisely the same.
May 19th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
To Ian: yes, I could use scare-mongering publishers, but let's face it — idiots is much funnier…
And, besides, who buys the stuff those scare-mongering publishers put out?
Exactly.
May 19th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Thanks for writing this, Ian! As has been said, I can't believe how many times I get asked about this. Do people actually *want* to live in fear and dread?
I liked the comment above from Jon — yes, the world is pretty fun!
May 19th, 2008 at 8:29 pm
this ridiculous theory was publicized in the book "Fingerprint of the Gods" makes a good read if you want a laugh.
May 19th, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Well, 2012 seems like a reasonable time for us to have a technological Singularity. And if not then, 2020 to 2025 will do nicely. That 2020 to 2025 period also coincides with around the time that the bulk of the baby boomers will have retired, which makes a pretty good time period for Social Security to collapse.
And maybe those Mayans were on to something with base 13: in radix 13, when you multiply 6 by 9 you get 42.
Note to the humor-challenged: the above was written with my tongue firmly planted in my cheek.
May 19th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
I must admit to being a bit disappointed that claims of Mayans having some sort of advanced or secret knowledge are seeping through in a couple of the comments.
There is no doubt that there were ancient Mayans, along with ancient Babylonians, ancient Egyptians, and other peoples from thousands of years ago that were every bit as intelligent as our brightest today (evolution doesn't work that quickly) but the were extremely limited by their primitive technology and thus it's nonsense to say that they "knew about our galaxy" or about the crossing of the galactic plane (which if I recall correctly doesn't happen in 2012 anyway, even if it can be pinned down to a single year, which I doubt).
Without telescopes (of which there is no evidence they even came close to having) then at best they could have had a lucky or perhaps an informed guess at the nature of the lights in the night sky. Understanding requires knowledge, which requires data. Without even rudimentary technology, they could not collect that data, and so they were stuck at guesswork.
I am willing to give the ancient Mayans their due, but once you start claiming they had scientific or mystical knowledge beyond or close to that which we know today, then you're back in the same neighborhood inhabited by those doomsday hawkers who are scaring up cash from the gullible.
May 19th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Please Ian, no more on this. I am planning to ask all the doomsfolk to give me their worldly possessions on say December 20th, 2012. They won't need them. I on the other hand can use all the help I can get. So please, don't go on about this nonsense-nonsense, you're wreaking havoc on my get rich scheme.
May 19th, 2008 at 10:11 pm
Of course, it's my luck doomsfolk have only crap.
May 19th, 2008 at 10:34 pm
There is clear evidence that something is going to happen around 2012. Where are bigger planetoids behind Pluto, Pluto included now!?
All are close to their extremes of their orbits!!!!
Eris – present-current distance 97AU!!!, Aphelia97AU,..perihelia38AU
2003EL61 – 52AU!!!,….52AU,…… 35AU
2005FY9 – 52AU!!!!,…52AU,…….39AU
2003UB313-Sedna – 90AU!!! 975,6AU,…. 76,2AU
Pluto -
close toperih. 49AU,………30AU
Orcus – 48AU!!! 48,3AU 30,5AU
Quaoar – 45AU 42AU-nearly circular orbit
Qaoar is circa 43AU from us-nearly circular orbit.,…
Please, let us know your theory why are dwarf planets behind Pluto, Pluto included so close to their extreme points on their orbits!!! My theory was presented in previous discussion comments,…Pavel Smutny-in yowusa.com, astronomy.com….
continue on:
http://2012planetx.info/archives/104
I made my conclusions. Probability to have all planetoids close to perihelia, or aphelia is less than 1:100000!!!! .
Don't forget that Mayan, Egyptian,Sumerian,Chinese,…had very old cultures, their scientiests, priests had got informations many thousands years old. Their calendars,…are based on systems of previous extinguished civillisations. There were many big global catastrophes within one or more precession cycles, all is also in coincidence with ice core dating from Greenland, Antarctica,…
Pavel Smutny
May 19th, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Pavel, what could lumps of ice orbiting tens of millions of miles away possibly do with events here on Earth? It doesn't matter if they all happened to be in a straight line or forming tetrahedrons, they are tiny bits of rock that nobody, not ever, knew about until they were discovered a few years ago.
Frankly, your comment is all nonsense, including the idea that there were advanced civilizations thousands of years ago. You have no proof, you have no evidence. What you do have is bunk.
May 19th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Overhead, without any fuss, the stars will go out.
May 19th, 2008 at 11:28 pm
The doomsday in 2038 seems much more probable
(I hope that link works. Oh well.)
May 19th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
"There is no doubt that there were ancient Mayans, along with ancient Babylonians, ancient Egyptians, and other peoples from thousands of years ago that were every bit as intelligent as our brightest today (evolution doesn't work that quickly) but the were extremely limited by their primitive technology"
Have you noticed that we cannot build a pyramid such as the Great Pyramid with our modern machines? So how exactly did they cut those big stones and move them? They didn't use copper tools as some idiot Egyptologist would have you believe, since you can't cut granite, or even limestone with copper. Plus the surfaces of those stones have absolutely flat surfaces. There's much evidence that shows they used some sort of high speed tools that left perfectly round holes.
http://www.gizapower.com/Advanced/Advanced%20Machining.html
But we are lead to believe they did all this by hand, and in 20 years, and that it was a tomb, even though no mummies were ever found in a pyramid. Also with todays modern equipment, we couldn't quarry all that stone and move it, in 20 years.
We need to accept that we don't know everything, and possibly some of the past civilization might have actually known stuff we don't.
"You have no proof, you have no evidence."
Neither do you. One must be able to prove something is false as much as someone has to prove something is true. Like the saying "if it is not forbidden, it is mandatory"
May 19th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Yeah, 2038 will no doubt be some people's choice, but it's still too far into the future for the nuts to fret over (and it doesn't have that round-number cachet Y2K had!), so we're due one of two failed dates with doomsday before it's 2038's turn. It'll just have to wait in line behind the others.
May 19th, 2008 at 11:47 pm
More advanced rock cutting by "primitive technology"
http://www.gizapower.com/pma/index.htm
May 20th, 2008 at 12:36 am
Very nicely done article, but I doubt doomsayers and doom-believers have Universe Today in their feeds… (or even the patience/rationality to read this)
May 20th, 2008 at 12:48 am
I agree with "Think a Minute". It's easy to throw stones at speculation. Let's keep an open mind to possibilities.
As noted, the Mayan calendar tracks the Venus cycle.
The Venus' retrograde cycle of approx 1 1/2 years takes on interesting significance when viewed over a longer period of time.
For example, over an 8 year period Venus stations retrograde 5 times. Plot those 5 points on a circle and connect the dots in the same retrograde and a Star Pentagram is created. The Pentagram is a pagan symbol whose significance or importance was buried in the Inquisition. What it means in today's terms is open to debate. Further, at the conclusion of the 8 year cycle, Venus returns to practically the same starting point, plus 1 degree. Accelerate and put into motion this phenomena over a few thousand years, using an astronomy program such as Starry Night Pro, and a very interesting spiraling of the pentagram occurs. Of course, none of this necessarily presages a doomsday scenario, however, other historical factors ought to be noted.
The larger Venus cycle relative to its solar transits covers some 243 years. The 2012 transit represents the last or 5th transit of that long cycle. Interesting to me it occurs in the same year as the end (or what is perceived as the "end) of the Mayan Calendar. 243 years prior to 2008 takes us back to the beginnings of the American and Industrial revolutions. Given the rapid changes we see occurring today in the world of finance, industry and social structures, it is within the realm of possibility that 2012 may signal the end of a long (and rather earth-abusive) cycle of industry and government.
What lies beyond 2012 is pure speculation (the doomsday perspective is a possibly (isn't anything in this random filled Universe?); nonetheless, too much of a stretch for me). However, if history is a metaphorical guide, a revolutionary time of social and business shifts may be in the offing. Today's rapid, intense events across the globe in the areas of government and industry may be the early signs of such a shift.
May 20th, 2008 at 12:50 am
Need an editor option.
"Plot those 5 points on a circle and connect the dots in the same retrograde and a Star Pentagram is created." ought to read "Plot those 5 points on a circle and connect the dots in the same retrograde sequence…."
May 20th, 2008 at 1:23 am
Joseph said it well. There is transit of Venus in 2012,…Jupiter is in aphelia in that time, north magnetic pole is very accelerating its speed, global warming is also on Mars,… (for Tacitus,…) Appearant aphelias and perihelias of planetoids are only result of projection of opposite motions of planets, espec. of indoor planets with Sun toward approaching X to real orbits of those planetoids. There is half precession cycle since Atlantean catastrophy, flood,…13000 before present now.
May 20th, 2008 at 1:46 am
I have knowledge to say what will happen during X arrival quite precisely and I have power with God,… help to save many millions, billions people if Nibirus arrival would be seriously accepted by scientific comunity. There are enough historical documents, astro maps,…what speak about what happened, what will happen and what should we do to prevent the worst.
Researches (regresiv+progresiv hypnosis) of Dr. Snow, Wambach,…and of some other psychologists, psychyaters show that only 5 percents of present population (it concerns mainly to Americans) will reincarnate till 2100. Those 5 percent said that there would be serious big climatic, polution,…problems on The Earth.
May 20th, 2008 at 2:31 am
One day in thousands of years time some of our scientific 'facts' of today may be regarded as myths.
I'm looking forward to the total eclipes of the sun on 2012 off the coast of Queensland Australia.
Unitil then live everyday like it's the end of the Mayan callender!
May 20th, 2008 at 3:11 am
Voodoo, warning. it's calling, down in limbo…
Oh sorry… Actually, I think we should still stick to the ancient art of augury. Might just be more accurate methinks.
Again, chicken entrails anyone?
May 20th, 2008 at 3:16 am
Chris said it nice way, but if those changes come they would be fluently graduating. More earthquakes, hurricanes, local floods,…internet connectivity will fall, electric and water nets collapses will be more often,…till final cataclysma. That scenario is terrible but probable. If people don't recognise it soon since particular time there would be small chance to escape, to properly prepare,…..
It is like to case of Jews before second world war. Who recognized that they are endangered and had got enough vigor so they escaped and Were saved. Other mainly died.
May 20th, 2008 at 3:20 am
It just shows that with the right (I mean false) information, you can fool some of the people all of the time
Here's something mystical (and utterly meaningless) to add: If you multiply the two great Mayan numbers – 13 and 20 – and then add a couple of zeroes, you get 26,000; the number of years of the precession of the Earth's axis! Wow! What an amazing coincidence!
To be (slightly) more serious, why should the world end because a calendar ends? In any case, why should the calendar end at that point? Why not at 19.19.19.19.19? According to a very quick calculation, that would put the end date at May 2, 4530 and at that point, as everyone knows, you just take an old calendar and start using it again…
I present public talks and workshops for schools on astronomy and space exploration. One of the reasons I do this is to get people excited about science, because that's what we need to ensure our future, not someone saying "I think *this* will happen" without having any proof.
Ian, Fraser and all you others – keep up the good work!
May 20th, 2008 at 3:25 am
I enjoyed the mathematical aspect of the article yet i don't understand it's title…It just confirms that the mayan long cycle calendar ends on december 21st 2012, we know that but what comes after? How can you say no doomsday based on what you wrote? Or how could someone say doomsday based on those calculations. It's just your unbacked opinion.
I could say for example that maybe the US gov will attack iran by year's end but i can also say it won't.
Yet some telltale signs popping up since the beggining of the year may lead some to believe in the first option whilst rationality and common sense would have others believe it would be a disaster (economically, geopolitically etc) so they'd think it's highly unlikely it would happen.
Both options are credible yet you cannot say which will happen because it's something that's out of our hands ; war (and doomsday and religion etc) is out of the realm of scientific and cartesian rationality.
This is mythology, something you cannot prove nor disprove. Kinda like UFOs.
Nonetheless thanks for the article!
May 20th, 2008 at 3:34 am
could I ask everyone NOT to call people who believe in this IDIOTS. It might be an irrational belief but it's far from idiocy. Show some respect people.
May 20th, 2008 at 4:08 am
@ Think a Minute.
It is possible to cut granite with copper. The technique has been replicated. You take a copper saw with no teeth place sand ontop of the granite, then let the quartz crystals do the work for you.
May 20th, 2008 at 4:20 am
@Think a minute
Some of those images look suspiciously photo shopped?
and those saw cuts look exactly like the result from the copper saw with no teeth and sand.
May 20th, 2008 at 4:40 am
The world will not end on dec 21 2012 because it will have previously have ended the day before ie 20/12 2012 either that or the earth will split in two. I haven't made my mind up which.
It was supposed to have ended on 6th June in '66 but apparantly the devil holds copyright on that one.
But keep those doomsday dates coming guys cos one day one of you is going to be right and then we'all be sorry!
Great article and something to talk about in the pub!
May 20th, 2008 at 5:04 am
gosh this doomsday thing has generated so much fuss among the masses even the news channels are goin mad on them….instead of preventing this rumour from creeping up they are actually promoting "theories " behind it
May 20th, 2008 at 5:15 am
On the subject of 13 (and why it has significance).
Just a guess – 13 lunar cycles in a year?
Great article by the way.
May 20th, 2008 at 5:26 am
Confused about the last day. From the example given, wouldn't the last day before the rollover be 19.19.19.19.19 instead of 13.0.0.0.0? That would be way off in the future.
May 20th, 2008 at 5:50 am
If enough people fall into the hysteria that the world will end in 2012, then ther could actually be some problems, such as riots, bank raids, etc. A self fulfilling prophecy.
Never under estimate the power of idiots in a mass panic.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:10 am
ppl are still with dark ages minds
May 20th, 2008 at 6:13 am
You can't expect the irrational to buy rational arguments like yours.
Look at the people who went all survivalist over Y2K. Whatever happened to them, anyway?
We have people in high places in our government (and other places) and "in the heartland" who believe the young earth hoax…errr creationism. Hundreds of years of trying to talk sense to these people have gotten us nowhere.
Anyway, thanks for trying. Most of us won't lose any sleep over this.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:23 am
Toutatis said
"could I ask everyone NOT to call people who believe in this IDIOTS. It might be an irrational belief but it's far from idiocy. Show some respect people."
Couldn't agree more. EVERY human being at some time or another, big or small, has demonstrated belief in something that is beyond conventional wisdom. To cast every person who subscribes to the belief in a "doomsday calendar" as an IDIOT is in itself a reflection of misguided moral superiority. Unfortunately, we live in an age that casts judgements…what astounds me is that so many who claim to support science (as many do on this page) are the very same who are quick to label others as 'idiots.' Let the science speak for itself. Even though the science prevails in the Mayan Calendar inquiry, that does not necessarily mean that there is a corresponding moral conclusion. A deeper inquiry into the moral argument is needed to understand why individuals would place their belief in a doomsday argument. A moral inquiry is IN ADDITION to a scientific inquiry (and, I might add, beyond the scope of a webpage that claims to be devoted to astronomy). If we use the train of thought that many have on this comment feed, then we might as well cast judgement on everyone with different beliefs than us.
Isn't that what religious fundamentalists are doing???
May 20th, 2008 at 6:43 am
The idea of a pole shift destroying the Earth always makes me chuckle. The magnetic poles shift all the time, and as far as I know, Earth hasn't been destroyed by it yet. (I could be wrong though, does anyone have any proof that Earth hasn't been destroyed yet? :p)
May 20th, 2008 at 6:45 am
Surprisingly, not one respondant mentioned that the Mayans were quite incapable of "predicting" their own civilization's collapse and preventing it from happening.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:53 am
s0l Says::
This is mythology, something you cannot prove nor disprove.
Except that it's not Mayan mythology, but some Western-invented doomsday scenario to explain what even native Mayans can no longer explain. We don't know why the calendar ends (or begins, for that matter) on the date(s) that it does. If there ever was some mythological significance to the date(s), that information has apparently not been transmitted to the descendents [sic] of the hieroglyph bearers.
We just have to grow up and accept that there are some things we just don't know and will never.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:09 am
I think this is all myth junk and the people who follow it have no life.
THE MOST IMPORTANT THINK TO WORRY ABOUT RIGHT NOW IS GLOBAL WARMING AND MOST IMPORTANT "PEAK OIL"
May 20th, 2008 at 7:14 am
Dave,
Moral judgements aside…you're sounding a bit like an idiot.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:24 am
Chet, from my school books it says the Mayans did predict their downfall and did little to prevent it due to that.
No one knows for sure though.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:32 am
Toutatis types,
Believing in something unproven and frankly, ridiculous, makes one an idiot. Having an open mind to the possibility sounds like an excuse to be an idiot. Believe in what is real, or likely, or desperately wanted. Doomsday is none of those. No civilization, now or ever, has had more information available to them than that of today. Make use of it. So should everyone else BEFORE deciding what they believe in.
I will talk to you in 2013…probably ANOTHER end of the world date.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:35 am
Just to take note the Mayan Calendar started to records events from the big bang and not from 250-900 AD when it was made, they say to model there calender from info given to them from Gods.
As Mayans the second human civilization after the Samerians which were also very prophetic ,how could you possibly know whats going to happen in the future! They had Something to see pluto know it was there and get the color correct where modern man today only discovered pluto in February 1930.
Either that had a sweeet telescope or they were informed. I do agree though that 2012 is not a doomsday but an enlightenment event.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:39 am
Er, no. It's calling a spade a spade.
Yes, we all believe irrational things from time to time, but then, that's because we're all idiots from time to time. I don't claim some higher moral righteousness because I can recognize the nonsense Pavel and others are saying is utter drivel (assuming they are actually serious and not just trolling — so hard to tell these days).
Should I respect the opinion of someone who claims that tiny leprechauns are responsible for all the mislaid pens and pencils that go missing every day? I don't think so, and claims that tiny lumps of rock hundreds of millions of miles away that can barely be seen by the largest telescopes today exert an influence that can affect things here on Earth are equally nutty and foolish. Astrology is bunk and has been proven to be over and over again. End of story.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:39 am
Just a thought…
If the world ends in 2012, who is going to be around to know that the prophesy happened? Ie. No one after it (I.e. 2013) will be around to talk about it.
Isn't this why end of the world predictions are so silly?
Interesting alternatives to the end of the world;
1) Does the human race end, when our biology or gene sequence evolves into a new species
2) Does human race end when it dies by catastrophe?
3) No life exists at all on the Earth?
4) When the past has been completely eradicated by history?
(or does it only truly end when we can no longer remember the past?)
5) When the Earth disappears from the firmament?
6) etc.
So really IMO, it makes absolutely no sense unless the actual word "end" is precisely defined.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:42 am
As Richard Bach in his book "Illusions" saiys…
"What a caterpillar calls the end of the World, the master calls a butterfly."
May 20th, 2008 at 7:46 am
Hector, speaking of myths…
May 20th, 2008 at 8:42 am
Mayan calendar aside, am rather amazed no one has mentioned the fact that next solar maximum (2011-2012) is projected by scientists to be 30-50% stronger than normal. Is it possible that the continuing alignment of the solar system with the galactic plane is having a maximum magnetic and/or gravitational effect upon the sun. Might the Law of Cause and Effect be in play.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:03 am
The real interesting question here is , do people who lable other people as "Idiots" or "Arrogant" or whatever , really have a problem within themselves?
Is it a form of chauvenism perhaps ? or Ego ? or are do they just feel threatened ?
Why did Archie Bunker specialize in this type behavior ?
We would have to do a statistical study on the history of all concerned including age , IQ, mental health background investigation etc. in order to even take an educated guess as to really understand where they are coming from.
Everything we read is open to question because of our limited brain power .
The book "Forbidden Archeology" is interesting but how do I know it is true unless I really research it ?
Yet its basic concept seems to have merit .
Many dates regarding ancient history and the start and disappearance of civilizations or first humans etc are open to question and seem to be pushed further and further back in time by the newer generations of scientists because new stuff is dug up.
Also , other than mathematics and the hard sciences nothing is written in granite and an absolute so it too is a guess.
If you haven't read that book … "F.A." it gives examples of young experts in the archeology fields having to be politically correct or their careers might be shortened considerably by the established cliques of powerful leaders in that field. For that reason , it claims that all new major new discoveries occur every 80 years or so which is the life span of the older gurus in the field .
It mentions a young couple who dug up evidence and published that an early American culture thought to have originated 12,000 B.C. were actually in existence as early as 30,000 B.C. and so their careers became jeopardized and they were shunned and not invited to meetings by their peers , and may have even been labeled "IDIOTS" .
But , archeology just like the history we read about is not a hard Science and is subject not only to guess work but maybe even extreme peer pressure to conform to the prior publications of leaders of their group. The book F.A. mentions many anomalies, such as finding gold necklaces and such embedded in granite and lumps of coal.
Now are the authors of that book "Forbidden Archeology " to be labeled "IDIOTS" and if so why ? Either
A. the labeler has done extensive research and found counter examples or….
B. that labeler is acting like a name calling child. or ..
C. That labeler has a deep seeded problem within him or herself and is insecure or …
D. that labeler is really a guru in his field and feels threatened.
By the way a recent article in Science maintains that the disappearance of the Clovis civilization around 12,900 B.C. coincides with new evidence of a meteor exploding over Canada around that date and so it may have been a mass extinction event and not due to the accepted other previous causes given by the gurus in the field.
The new Hard Evidence is written in granite .
That is what I like about Mathematics and the Hard Sciences, the gurus in those fields , when shown the proof accept it , though maybe grudgeingly. So no one is called an "Idiot" IN THE HARD SCIENCES . aLL THE OTHER FIELDS ARE JUST GUESS WORK anyway and so no one is an "Idiot"
However I do remember one case in an "Honors– Pass — Fail" graduate level course in Complex Variables based on Toploogy , where the homework problems and the exams determine your grade. One student stated that he could not do a particular homework problem and asked for the solution from the Professor who said
"My job is to assign the problems and your job is to do the problems without assistance … but maybe someone else in the class would like to come to the blackboard and demonstrate the proof "
Someone got up and proceeded with the proof and began writing … after several minutes the Professor interrupted and said that is not a proof , you are merely working towards an example……Please sit down…you remind me of a small boy whose Mother sends him to the store to get the groceries and all he comes back with is a lollypop"
Now is this the same as calling him an "IDIOT" ?….
No , because he is really merely calling him "Immature in the field of Complex Variables within Mathematics at that point in time " !
Has anybody read "Forbidden Archeology " ?
if so , what do you think about that book say as compared to "Fingerprints of the Gods" or the "Old Testament in the Bible " or
"Stonehenge" or the "Dead Sea Scrolls" or some of Zecharia Sitchins books like "Stairway to Heaven" which are speculation or at least have possibly been open to speculation , translation etc.
Another interesting paper is "A late awaking to Godel in Physics " By Stanley L. Jacki where he gives a critic of the dogmatisim prevelant in the field of Physics.
I think that paper gives a hint , if not a proof that the only really Hard Science may be Mathematics itelf.
So no one is really an "IDIOT" other than an idiot.
Karl Friedrich Gauss was an applied Mathematician and contributed to the sub fields of celestial mechanics ,theoretical mechanics, physics , astronomy , theory of vibrations, numerical analysis ….
He along with Isaac Newton and Archimedes were once considered by many to be the top three Mathematicians who ever lived . Now I don't know, but Kurt Godel is considered by some to be the greatest maybe at least in the 20th century.
Since Godel , many so called hard subjects are on shaky foundations and definitely not embedded in concrete so are probably mere speculation including prophecies which are by their own nature open to question but not to ridicule .
Seymour
May 20th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Post to hopefully eliminate email address.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:14 am
Perhaps I'm just asking for trouble, but what a bunch of arrogant people those of you must be who definitively spout that the world will not end in 2012. However unlikely, you'd have to be omniscient to make such a solid statement. Last I checked, the only omniscient one is God.
To Hector:
Is "global warming" a reality? Yes. We are able to observe it's effects. Are we the cause? Maybe a small part. Can we actually stop or even slow it down? You might as well ask an ant to turn off an oven once it's inside.
To Laurie Mann:
The "hoax" of creationism is no more a "hoax" than the theory of evolution. Do you realize that Charles Darwin was a bishop? He wrote 6 different theses on evolution and that it is only his second one that the scientific community has latched onto. Also, It is a proven fact that all creatures do adapt, therefore "evolve" of a course of time, but nowhere and at no time has it ever been documented that one species has "evolved" into another.
To Ed Minchau:
Thanks for the Douglas Adams quote! 42!
May 20th, 2008 at 9:21 am
I'm sorry, I meant "reference" – Douglas Adams "reference"
May 20th, 2008 at 9:22 am
why do you stop counting at 13.0.0.0.0 or 20.0.0.0.0 why would the progression not simply go on from there to 13.13.13.13.13 or 20.20.20.20.20? I can't even comprehend the dates for those numbers.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:32 am
I agree with this set of statements:
"243 years prior to 2008 takes us back to the beginnings of the American and Industrial revolutions. Given the rapid changes we see occurring today in the world of finance, industry and social structures, it is within the realm of possibility that 2012 may signal the end of a long (and rather earth-abusive) cycle of industry and government.
What lies beyond 2012 is pure speculation (the doomsday perspective is a possibly (isn't anything in this random filled Universe?); nonetheless, too much of a stretch for me). However, if history is a metaphorical guide, a revolutionary time of social and business shifts may be in the offing. Today's rapid, intense events across the globe in the areas of government and industry may be the early signs of such a shift."
It makes alot of sense to me. I honestly believe that if we can't get away from oil on our own, the price of oil will help us. I foresee a chaotic beginning to life without oil and after a while, things will regulate. But be assured, things are going to get pretty interesting in the next couple of years – and I really do mean 2 years. If we can miraculously find ways to alter our current technology to run on alternative fuels in that time period, then maybe it won't be as bad.
I'm prepared for anything, as inconvenient and disturbing a thought it might be. Don't think that the brown stuff won't hit the fan because it most likely will.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:35 am
ENB:
Totally agree with you
May 20th, 2008 at 9:35 am
I'm an idiot, and have know it for years.
My limitations are basically based on processing power and experience. However, my abilities (or lack therein) is not based on intuition nor dogma – but on the scientific method and evidence .
While the Mayan calendar is remarkable and complex, the failure of its presumed "end" was based on their own knowledge and the experience of having; life, ascension into the world, followed by death. If human and all living organisms follow this precept, then the Universe (and Earth) are likely to have evolution – beginning and end.
Therefore, then being an "idiot" is probably not based on stupidity but just ignorance of the facts.
Note: The evolution and concepts regarding Society and existentialism, it is best to read the philosophy from the (mostly his later works, political) intellect of Jean-Paul Sartre (1905-1980) – especially the essay ; The Transcendence of the Ego
I.e. His brilliant thought; "Existence precedes essence."
and
"Man first of all exists, encounters himself, surges up in the world – and defines himself afterwards."
As such considering the end of the world means we are probably ALL idiots.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Bedrock, if there was an infinite amount of time and an infinite amount of resources available then I suspect everything, no matter how crazy sounding, would be a candidate for serious research. However, time and resources are limited, especially in science where funding is always an issue.
For example. It's remotely possible that the "Face on Mars" is an alien artifact as some people claim, but the odds of them being correct are astronomical, and the more mundane explanation that the face is nothing more than a combination of an eroded mesa and an overactive imagination is almost certainly true.
Therefore it is entirely reasonable for NASA to decline to spend billions of dollars sending a probe (or manned expedition) to Cydonia to investigate that region on Mars for alien artifacts. The true believers cry foul anyway, claiming that NASA is simply covering up the truth, even though they only have an infinitesimal chance of being right.
Forbidden archeology falls into the same realm. One of these extraordinary claims could be correct, but without extraordinary evidence (which has never been presented) then it would be foolish for archaeologists to go chasing after every claim made by someone interested in selling a book.
You quote examples of how people have been proven wrong before. Well, yes, but never anywhere near to the degree they would have to be wrong if FA was proven correct. Pushing back the dawn of a culture or civilization several hundred years (or thousands in primitive cases) is nowhere near the same as claiming that an ancient high-tech culture has been overlooked all these years.
You also have to remember that the whole field of FA is ridden with hoaxes and scams, and it doesn't help that people like Sitchen are credulous to the point that they will believe just about anything that will help sell more of his books.
As for Godel, I don't know anything about him, but Isaac Newton, one of the all time greats, was obsessed with alchemy for much of his life, believing that there was merit to it. Does that mean we should treat the claims of alchemists seriously, even though they haven't a shred of evidence to show us? Even the greats can be badly fooled.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:48 am
Wesley, all you have done is prove you need to read up about Charles Darwin since you seem to know nothing about him at all.
Darwin was never a clergyman of any kind, let alone a bishop, and he didn't write six alternative these on evolution.
Hint — try using a reliable source for a change instead of those junk creationist web sites. Then perhaps you will be less woefully wrong next time.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Oops – "theses" not "these"
May 20th, 2008 at 9:49 am
This was research that a close friend of mine wrote her thesis on. Don't be so quick to judge.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:03 am
However, I do recant my ignorance laden statement that he was a bishop.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:06 am
This is a poorly researched article. First of all the mayans were given the advanced knowledge of astronomy and mathematics from their ancestors thousands of years before them. Plus the author FAILS to mention the precession of the equinoxes and the significant planetary and galactic alignments that will occur on that date. this only happens every 26,000 years, so I'd say it is pretty important. this subject is so much more incredibly complex and it is ridiculous to assume a blogger has unlocked the mysteries of this super advanced civilization.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:09 am
The thing is, there is no actual evidence that the Mayans predicted the end of the world. The calender just ends.
Some people have simply jumped to the conclusion that the world will end, and are looking to evidence to "prove" what they already believe. In some cases, the "evidence" itself is poor or is another doomsday/conspiracy theory itself. (Magnetic pole shifts, UFO's Planet X, global warming, taxes, cats and dogs living together peacefully, etc.)
It's bad science.
If the Mayans had a text that said "The World will end on X date" then there would at least be a foundation for this myth. No such text exists.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:15 am
Wesley, kudos for admitting an mistake
.
As for alternative theses — you make it sound as though Darwin wrote six competing theories of evolution and then waited to see which one of them stuck.
Anyone who has read Darwin's biography knows that this is a gross misrepresentation of his work. I do not doubt that he developed his theory of natural selection over time and changed his mind more than once on the way, but that's how science works. He also got some of the details wrong (understandably, since he was working in a brand new field of discovery) but his theory has stood the test of time to a remarkable degree nonetheless.
I will be interested to see if you could come up with these alternative theories you believe Darwin to have written. My guess is that you can't.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:16 am
rougeweapons, "were given the advanced knowledge of astronomy and math from their ancestors". what the heck is this based on?? so youre saying that just because they were given knowledge they know when the world will end? i dont know how you can make a jump like that. another jump, equinoxes and planetary alignments. yup, that means earth is done for. cause when i line up my baseball, basketball, football, soccer ball, tennis ball, volleyball, and beach ball, they are instantly destroyed. rubbish. nothing is going to end anytime soon. so get on with it. next.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:20 am
A very interesting read, and a very interesting array of comments, too.
It has thoroughly invigorated my firm belief that, at the current rate of chipping away at ignorance, our minds all will arrive in the 21st century by – just guessing – the year 2500 ?
Folks, it's a calendar. An arbitrary definition of a measurement of time, based on the observed orbital speed of planets at an arbitrary moment in time. There's no predictive value in it. Zip. Nada. Zilch.
You claim to know different? Well … show your data, or it didn't happen. End of story.
Sigh.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:24 am
What knowledge, when, and by whom? Where's your evidence?
As for galactic alignments, well if you dig deep enough you can find enough alignments to satisfy any theory. Did you know that the Earth is farthest from the Sun every single year on exactly the same date? Isn't that remarkable! What's more remarkable, the ancient super-ancestors knew it too!!!! Stop the presses!!
May 20th, 2008 at 10:33 am
The Mayans were too short sighted to count to 19.19.19.19.19
May 20th, 2008 at 10:36 am
i've been so worried about this whole "end of the world thing." it's one of my biggest fears. And i'm a little more relaxed about it, but i don't really understand, so if you could like.. break it down, in normal 16 year old lanuage? because i am really really interested in knowing the truth.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Hello Im Dominican American and I feel some kind of connection to these ancient people even though I have no physical lineage to them they are somewhat connected to modern day hispanics so when I hear people putting the calendar down and labeling it as rubbish I just say, I wish you would go back then and say to them and see how fast you would have been scalped….hahahahaah
May 20th, 2008 at 10:47 am
alex, the simple truth is that 2012 will be just like any other year. There is as much chance of the world ending in 2012 as there is in 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2013, 2014, and so on.
There is *no* extra significance to the year 2012 concerning the end of the world– NONE AT ALL!
So, there is no need to spend another second worrying about. You may face plenty of challenges and dangers in your life, but none of them will have anything to do with the Mayan calendar, galactic alignments or claims of apocalyptic doom. Those are all complete and utter bunk!
The odds are you will live a long and healthy life well into the 2050s and possibly beyond. Just be careful when your driving your car — driving as a teenager is probably the greatest risk to your life and health in the next four years!
May 20th, 2008 at 10:50 am
LLDIAZ, the calendar isn't rubbish — just the bizarre theories some modern day people want to claim about it. And, yes, I am sure that the Mayans would be amazed by the silliness of it all.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:21 am
"The odds are you will live a long and healthy life well into the 2050s and possibly beyond. Just be careful when your driving your car — driving as a teenager is probably the greatest risk to your life and health in the next four years!"
>Sure, should you have a job where you make a few hundred thousand dollars a year and can afford gas in a couple years.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:34 am
gotta admit, this more 'fun' than science and rational discourse.
May 20th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
Eric, let's not get too overwrought. The life expectancy of even the lowest income groups in America is over 65, and for the average American it's in the late 70s. I doubt the average American has a job paying hundreds of thousands of dollars
May 20th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
Oh yeah? Even with upcoming food shortages and the decreasing amount of charitable donations? Let's not get too wrapped up in the "life expectancy" debate when sustaining society itself will be a huge problem.
May 20th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
This whole discussion about the Mayan Prophecy being founded on hot air can lead nowhere and it is irrelevant . You can't possibly have the Mayan's complete database at your disposal since some of it may still be underground , stolen by the Spanish ,missing …, so how can you judge its validity.
At this point this whole debate is like " A tale told by an Idiot (or bunch of idiots) signifying nothing"
Let he who is without sin , cast the first label.
The Mayans never said directly "The world is coming to an end in 2012 " and just maybe , they were too busy dealing with more urgent matters and so their calendar was incomplete.
The mayans most probably had a connection with other cultures including that from India, Pakistan and the Olmecs who some think had ties with Africa. A professor Villanueva from the Yucatan peninsula specifies congruent architecture including the design of the Corbelled Mayan Arch used by the Mayans that was similar to that designed in Polynesia and which is also found extensively in India, Pakistan and Southeast Asia. He mentions also , a legend of the Naiki tribe of the island of Hiba Ola in Polynesia who constructed an enormous ship and put to sea arriving in America near the Yucatan . There are obvious ties with Japan and other Asian countries as well and much earlir migrations from these far off lands as with reference to studies there as well. This is discussed also by Dr. Gualberta Zapata Alonzo from Merida in the Yucatan peninsula as well as much research concerning the Mayan Calender . The Spanish under Columbus never reached the Yucatan until Geronimo de Aguilar and Gonzalo de Guerrero and others crashed on the rocks and came ashore by life boat in 1511 .They were taken prisoner by hostile canibals , fattened up and eaten except for the two aformentioned who escaped and ended up with the Mayans and even were somewhat assimilated by the culture. Guerrero married a Mayan Princess . Later Aguillar , who had attained a high rank went to Cozumel and met up with Cortes and thus gained his freedom from the Mayans.
Much of the technical knowledge of the Mayans including mathematics , astronomy and their calendar was probably partly assimilated from Polyenesians and before that Indian , Pakistan and possibly Olmec cultures at the dawn of their entrance into the Yucatan so the complete knowledge they attained is unknown. One must be truly arrogant to assume they know everything about this Mayan culture or its foundations , much of which has been lost.
Super civilizations may have existed eons ago and left no recognizable trace as yet .
Many of us profess to be scientists but are more likely , pseudo scientists when we claim to know what is possible and what is impossible regarding the past or the future and , as far as I am concerned . the Mayan's may have been smarter than most of us today especially those of us who exhibit such large egos.
Many scientists were enchanted by the lure of enormous wealth to be attained by Alchchemy just as todays outlandish ideas like space elevators, single stage to orbit vehicles , time travel , antigravity and lasar powered space craft are considered. Those narrow minded ones who walk the tight rope of conservative thinking never make any major breakthroughs. Its only those with open minds who make the finals and all the runners up are just mediocre as far as history is concerned.
Look at all the naysayers and what they accomplished.
Remember to evaluate the potential expected value of the sucess along with the expense of the effort before you decide for sure its a waste of time. What if that Face on Mars had really been there , the expense of a second look would have been a no brainer to historians in that case.
Do you really understand physics and chemistry that well that you are completely sure that Alchemistry is impossible. Would you stake your life on it or all your wealth on it.
As a trial lawyer once said you must not convict if you are not sure beyond a reasonable doubt that the person is guilty. And so you must be so sure like you would if the decision was personal and as important as for example getting married or buying your house or risking it all .
If you didn't know about radar and such and someone had told you there was a blind creature that flew in caves and tracked and ran down insects at random would you think and say it was impossible and invest your entire savings for that choice ?
Just how sure are you that ghosts don't exist and esp . Are you even sure that all the senses possible to all creatures have been discovered. That would be the senses of smell, hearing, infrared detection, light and sight and detection devices of all the known spectrum and anything else.
What about dark matter and dark energy which were sort of postulated to explain missing matter and the acceleration of the galaxys ?
Do you really think your brain is powerful enough to decide what is possible and what is impossible? Humans learn much by observation of other species and their unique senses so we must copy nature to try to understand it .Therefore our brain power is lacking and too weak and so we can't ever percieve the "Mind of God " completely. This is what Kurt Godel proved in his incompleteness theorem about number theorems in Mathematics.
Recently, the paper "A late awakening to Godel in Physics" by Jacki correlates this idea to physics as well. This concept relates to computer science theories as well.
Maybe they will find evidence of a lost super civilization some day .I would not bet my life against it.
Seymour
May 20th, 2008 at 12:48 pm
There will be NO jobs if things continue on their current track – white collar or blue collar. You think with oil on the rise that the average joe will be able to buy gas to get to work? That's why I'm saying that society is going to collapse directly because of oil's price and increasing demand overseas.
May 20th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
When my calendar ends I just take it off the wall and throw it away (Recycle it these days). Then I buy a new one.
May 20th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
The end of anybodys world is when their brain stops functioning and they die.
Philisophically we have walking dead already.
Nobody can predict the future. Hunches, gut feelings, fear, predictions… it does not mean it is going to happen.
For those that just look for something to "guide your life", decipher these numbers:
9682732643468
May 20th, 2008 at 1:08 pm
If the Large Hadron Collider doesn't get us all, the Mayan Calendar will
May 20th, 2008 at 1:18 pm
Tacitus:
Given a couple of days, let me ask my friend and I'm sure that I could give you a much more detailed response.
We should all be willing to admit a mistake when we've made one, otherwise we make ourselves to be fools.
May 20th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
I heard about this "2012 thing" before, but merely brushed it off as utter foolishness.
My theory? They just simply ran out of time making another calendar?
Jokes aside, I'm glad you wrote this up, as I can now point people towards this instead of spending too much time on Google debunking myths.
May 20th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Well, I use Hindu calendar, so the universe will end in 300 TRILLION years from now. Good luck to everyone!!!
May 20th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Bedrock, congratulations on touching just about every justification for pseudoscience (at the expense of real science) I have come across.
I can't even begin to tackle everything in your post, it would take far too long, but you are making one big mistake. Just because something is not impossible, doesn't make it a certainty or probable. You are constructing a worldwide network of ancient civilizations based upon the single notion that people have noticed a few architectural similarities between cultures. That's going way way way further than the available evidence will take you, but it is a hallmark sign of pseudoscientific thinking (and it certainly sells a lot of books!).
I agree that there are many wonders left to be uncovered, but it will be pursuit of rigorous scientific endeavor that will be responsible for finding them, not the parasitic community of pseudoscientists who do nothing but feed off the information real scientists produced though long years of toil and effort. People like Stichin and Hoagland are nothing more than fabulists who spin tales for the credulous and have found that they can make good money doing it.
Comparing them with real scientists is an insult to everyone working in the scientific community, from the Nobel Prize winners down to the lowliest lab assistant and general dogsbody.
May 20th, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Peter K, right back at ya.
May 20th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Al parecer, el mundo va a terminar el 21 de diciembre de 2012. SÃ, leyeron correctamente, porque de alguna manera, en forma o aspecto la Tierra (o por lo menos una gran parte de los seres humanos) dejará de existir. Dejen de hacer planes de estudios, no se molesten en comprar una casa y asegúrense de pasar los últimos años de su vida haciendo lo que siempre quisieron hacer pero que nunca encontraron el tiempo. Ahora tienen el tiempo, cuatro años, para disfrutar antes… del fin. [...] Fuente: Ian O'Neill para Universe Today.
May 20th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Well, since everyone is weighing in on this one, I guess maybe there would be something to the fact that our solar system is set to pass through the galactic plane around the same time, and the increased gamma radiation from the virgo cluster when that occurs (another one of your recent reports) coupled with our global warming problem, and bee disappearance might do the trick???????
May 20th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
This article isn't accurate, the Mayan calendar ends October 28th 2011. I suggest anyone interested in the facts about the Mayan calendar do their research because this article is far from the truth.
May 20th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Well, if it's an episode of Doctor Who, perhaps.
May 20th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
The fact that many believe this is going to happen is probably the funniest thing since area 51…
No there are no aliens in area51…just test aircraft that you aren't allowed to know about…
It is funny how something like the mayan calendar gets twisted into absurd ideas…with a bunch of cook authors jumping on the bandwagon to make a quick buck before we get to December 22nd 2012. lol…
Yeah a meteor is a real threat that is a possibility. We really can't monitor everything in space around us. But as for predictions…predictions are like @$$holes everyone has one hehe…
May 20th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
This is nitpicking, but there are only 18 winals in one tun. Each should read 13.20.20.18.20 in their highest place holders, with 13.0.0.0.0 being the winter solstice of 2012. Curiously enough, the calendar doesn't necessarily stop after the bak'tun cycle. There are piktuns, kalabtuns, kinchiltuns and alawtuns, each with their own 20 count cycle leaving room for 64 million years of dating by Maya standards.
Fascinating stuff… I did my research paper for my Maya history class on 2012. Don't forget about the sunspot cycle, though, it's perhaps the only event with any scientific backing hypothesized to be happening in 2012.
May 20th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
I didn't bother to read all 104 responses, but I have a simple question: why isn't 20.0.0.0.1 the end of the Long Count, instead of 13.0.0.0.1? After all, the other numbers go up to 20.
May 20th, 2008 at 5:42 pm
My personal philosophy is that this date will be the day time travel is invented, and with that, time as we know it will be irrelevant.
May 20th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Uh, folks, the world ended last Tuesday. What are you still doing here?
As for the galactic plane, which keeps popping up: you missed your flight, and the next one won't be for another 18,000 years (several Long Counts away).
Ta tuts'in! (Tzeltal for "See you later!")
May 20th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
Quite a read!
To simply put, all that has a beginning must come to an end.
No matter what celestial even will transpire, we cannot stop it. So, live your life and spread love and good will.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:13 pm
wut i think is that nobody could actually predict when doomsday comes i mean come on there were other dates that they accused of being the end of the world and it never happened
i believe that global warming is gonna end the world for a while not like earth will be blown into pieces mayb like another ice age in a thousand years
and when they say man made, it doesnt really have to mean nukes because nobody in the world has the balls to shoot their nukes they learned their lesson when america nuked my country(japan)
so like i tell my other friends dont wrry nothing's going to happen and all imma be doing is either watch the football game and watch the cowboys kill the teams, or hang out with my friend that has his b-day on that day and get wasted hahaha
May 20th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
First off, I hardly ever respond to articles, but this one I feel is important for people to understand where this author has made mistakes.
First off, anyone who says that the 'calendar ends in 2012' has simply not studied the calendar enough. Look at the facts, the mayan have dates inscribed that are trillions of years long. So it is wrong for anyone to say the calandar ends, because it does not.
Time in the mayan 'religion' is that which can be infinitely divisible, so that means basically time and religion are one and the same in the traditional mayan religion. Something that is interesting about the mayan concept of time is that, a 'second' can keep being divided into smaller time infinitely, and the same is true for large amounts of time like the short count.
Its also wrong to discount the number of cycles and length of cycles used by the shamen. To this day, there are shamen who use literally THOUSANDS of cycles.
Anyone who is interested in this subject should read "time and reality in the view of the maya".
Thanks all.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:30 pm
To Max,
I as well had to do some research on the matter as soon as I started hearing the "end of the world" garbage spilling out of peoples mouths. The sunspot cycle is the only significant thing I can see happening in 2012. However it could be a weak cycle and not even go noticed. The Earths weakening magnetic field could also add to any "punch" from a solar flare.
As to all the name calling and bashing going on; just let the people who are scared stay scared. When everyone was still alive on 1/1/00, theses same people started looking for a new end of the world date. I remember even hearing someone said something about that they were wrong because there was no year 0, therefore the end was going to happen on 1/1/01…AHHHH everyone hurry up and buy tons of canned food and build a bomb shelter. And when that failed to be true they had to come up with another date. Mayan calander will be the answer ehh?
The worlds not going to end in 2012. And when it doesnt, theyll have to create another date for the end of the world.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
I want to play along. Just to be the devil's advocate… the end of inexpensive or peak oil has been predicted since the early 1920s… to occur between 2012 and 2015. Not that oil will be gone, but the inexpensive oil will not to be had. The only 'REAL" source of flowing oil (if we cannot mine Alaska and Canada's oil shale or turn the U.S.s abundant coal mines into oil) will be in the heart of the OPEC nations. To be able to survive we must secure our energy…hence…WAR! So it is possible that the end of what we know of our world (not life or such, but as we know it today) could end in that brief slice of time.
Just thought for the fodder. LOL.
-Chris
May 20th, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Did I come late to the party ;-(
OK…to reignite it. The WORLD IS GOING TO END and your all idiots. Of course that includes me.
HEHEHHEHEHE.
May 20th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
I'm sure the Myans would have just gone 1.0.0.0.0.1 the day after 19.19.19.19.19.. it's very obvious that the reason they didn't use 6 in the first place was that they didn't have counting years over 400 in mind, exactly the same way that this year is 2008 not 02008.
May 20th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
My calendar end 31 Dec 2008. I will jump off a building before that happens! End of the world!
May 20th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
chris
thats y theyre making energy out of nuclear fuel and now theyre making water-powered cars
theyre making that because they want to stop using fossil fuel or oil because everybody in the world knos that we're sucking it all up. we have the technology to make water-powered cars and nuclear fuel we have it, but we're just taking our time, and when we do, we'll share it to the world.
japan already has water-powered cars, they already use nuclear fuel, they stopped using oil a long time ago after their own recession. america is trying to use nuclear fuel for power, theyre even giving it to the middle east and other countries that really needs it like north korea.
so there's not going to be a war over oil because thats just stupid since the technology we have today r so advanced that we dont need oil.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
the world will end not on Dec 21, but when/if McCain gets sworn in as president.
sorry for political humour, anyone running is better than the yeawho we have calling the shots now.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Everyone thought the world would end on 6/6/06.
Why? Because it is straight 6's! OH NO!
Religious superstitions, fear, and uncertainty drive these rumors.
Is the world over now? No. Will it be someday? Yes.
Will it be in 2012? We will see. Answers point to no.
May 20th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
It's a little late on, but to "Think a Minute"
The reason that we "can't" build the great pyramids with our modern technology isn't a "means" issue, it's a "will" issue.
Masses of slaves/devoted believers willing to work for years on end with minimal pay are hard to come by these days.
As for perfectly smooth and flat surfaces, it's called a water level. (Dig a little trench grid, pour some water in, mark the water level, and viola, you too can level a large surface to near machine tolerances)
May 20th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
Go to Viewzone.com and read up on this.
READ both articles. Different "view"
May 20th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
And another thing, some people keep writing about equinoxes and planetary alignment.
Planetary alignment causes jack-squat.
Of the four fundamental forces (Electromagnetic, strong and weak nuclear, and gravitation) gravity is the weakest. Albiet gravity and electromagnetism have an infinite range.
Think about it this way, the entire mass of the universe is currently exhibiting gravitational pull on you. Do you really think that a handful of planets in one particular order is going to change things?
May 20th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
There is much discussion within this area of the cited topic. I think all disciplines need to realize that the Mayans were excellent in math. They saw patterns in nature and expressed it with numbers and art. This became a sacred way of life. Nothing in life was ever done without sacredness. We've lost that today, therefore, we can't see the true meaning of their intent. Perhaps that is why we have so many environmental concerns of today.
As far as "Doomsday", the knowledge may have been merely used for predicting cycles. Remember that nature involves cycles. If you knew a specific cycle, you became "holy" in the Mayan world. It gave you power (an abused endowment upon humans even today). Sacred knowledge was yours and carefully guarded. If you could predict when a sacred area should be moved in order to save its people from famine or drought, you were thought to be one of the holy ones.
Do we call our well trained scientists of today "holy" because they attempt to predict weather patterns or climatic cycles? NO. We call them scientists with enough evidence to produce a theory. Will that theory occur? We must use the scientific method and time to see if the "scientists" were correct. The theory changes with variables and additional knowledge. Therefore, a plausible theory of our scientists 5 years ago, may seem "ridicuous" as of today.
Why do we scoff at ancient scientists who labored to give us a detailed account of their studies? Are we so brillant today that we possess all knowledge? Do we think we have comprehensive "knowledge" and "power"?
A wise person once told me that we must remember and understand the past or else we are "doomed" to repeat the mistakes of our past over and over again. (I don't think the great Mayan cities exist today.) Perhaps we should heed the lessons of the past to prevent a cycle that may be considered "doomsday" for some people on earth. I need only to cite the present day economic situation in the United States and the water shortages in some areas for us to remember that wetoo easily forget our lessons of the past . We often repeat our mistakes. I don't consider that to be extremely brillant.
If you study some of the Archaeo-Astronomy research of the southwest, you will find that many astronomers, physicists, climatologists and archaeologists are identifying more scientific data that may relate to various cycles of the Mayans. Could the calendar be tracking certain cycles that led to certain climatic changes? That is an unknown, but geologic record indicates that cycles are evident.
Is it possible that the Mayans did not predict accurately and produced a "Doomsday" of their own? Did their "assumed" brillance lead them to a path of destruction? Is there a lesson to be learned from their past culture and their own personal arrogance of the past? Could it be compared to our culture of today?
Sacred thinking is still evident in the southwestern Native American cultures of today . These cultures were influenced by the Mayans many years ago. There is still secret "sacredness" among those who possess specific knowledge. Those who possess this knowledge are still considered in awe. Rarely is it told to "outsiders". However, if one studies the stories, it closely corresponds to specific environmental cycles that are present today.
Perhaps with further scientific study of Earth's cycles and ancient historical records by a combined group of scientists from various disciplines patterns will again be understood and cycles will be understood.
There are too many variables to be able to predict an exact "Doomsday", but perhaps there are not too many variables within the past and present cycles of earth to predict how humans will need to survive in an environmentally challenged eco-system of earth in today's society.
May 20th, 2008 at 9:56 pm
Ugh, there is no Mayan Prophecy that says the world will end in 2012, or that there will be cataclysm or an apocalypse or anything. It's just where the last grand cycle ends and a new phase begins. The Mayan Calendar supposedly is more of a consciousness calendar, mapping the evolution of consciousness from single celled organisms to monkeys to nations to the industrial revolution to the internet boom to whatever is next.
The guiding force behind the final cycle is ETHICS (as opposed to power in the previous), and perhaps that's what we will see if people get off their asses, stop caring about American Idol and start caring about global starvation, greed-fueled financial collapse and ecosystem destruction.
Calling people idiots when you act on uninformed assumptions makes you look stupid. Granted, there are doomsday idiots – but you're smart enough not to listen to them, right?
May 20th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Its 5200 260 day years per age (13 baktuns). According to the sunstone calendar and the Popul Vuh, the mayans also believed in 5 ages to their greatest cycle, this present cycle being the last of five.
On 21/12/2012 it is the completion of the 5th age, that is a (slightly less than) 26000 year cycle.
They believe a period of enlightenment comes next.
Im just reporting that it is infact the end of a 26000 year cycle rather than just 5195 years.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
tacitus, if you want to know who, what, and when , look it up. I've done my homework, I'm not your teacher. do some research before shooting off your mouth. and "greg your last name " I never said the world is going to end in 2012. i did say a once in 26,000 year alignment occurs in 2012. The mayans knew about the universe while we were discovering the world was round. It looks like people today still don't understand the significance of this. Its obvious by the narrow sighted and small minded comments here.
May 21st, 2008 at 12:35 am
Filed under "things as silly as Scientology"
May 21st, 2008 at 12:45 am
Calm down guys. It's only the end of the world – which comes to us all one day so it not as if its unusual. Right now there are 40,000 bodies lying under rubble in china and 100,000 bodies floating around the Irrawaddy delta. People who live in disaster prone areas like that don't go around worrying that the world will end they just get on with their lives and so should we all and make best use of the time we've got.
May 21st, 2008 at 1:49 am
I believe that this date will be a end of the old thinking pattens of humans and the identifying of thinking as being. Death of the EGO.
This will be the start of humans awakening to the realization that they are not their thinking mind, but the consciousness, that is aware of the thinking mind.
2012 could also be the time when there is a Global shift in human consciousness due to the increasing number of people out there that are becoming more spiritually alive and aware.
Either way, with each ending there is a new beginning.
Perhaps 2012 is when England wins the Euro cup. There is more chance of the world ending before that happens…lol
May 21st, 2008 at 2:15 am
Mayans predicted an age of enlightenment
Need i say more, thats what we should be looking towards not doom. The big Alarm clock, its time to wake up ( S… i just remmerbered, this is my family and this is my home) one vision one goal (queen)
May 21st, 2008 at 2:27 am
Did I miss something, am I nuts, or does this article forget to do something? Like, um, contribute any support for its thesis? It gives some interesting information about the Mayan calendar, says something about an age of enlightenment but provides no references, says none of the predicted disasters are likely but gosh, there's no time to tell us why, and then says the Long Count is supposed to by cyclical but doesn't cite references for that, either. Even the article he links to at the end just provides no better references than "some Mayan archaeo-astronomers reckon!"
Personally, I don't think anything unusual is going to happen on 12/21/12 — except for anything wonderful that we choose to make happen, with the Mayan calendar as a convenient symbol and rallying point. I've got no personal investment in apocalypse and I'm not Aquarian. I just really hate sloppy rationalists, for approximately the same reason I hate bloodthirsty Christians.
May 21st, 2008 at 2:46 am
Yeah there only building "doomsday seed vaults" for the hell of it. Im sure bill gates and the Rockefeller's have billions of dollars to waste on a unneeded underground city.
May 21st, 2008 at 2:48 am
doomsday can come by other means, such as war, virus…etc The earth will not get hit by a comet.
WWIII will be in the year following 2012 and thats why the mayan predicted that humans will be widely killed after the year 2012.
May 21st, 2008 at 4:15 am
Because I had so many links it may not post my last reply. (messaged as "could be spam")
So I will repost with breaking up the links. I hope my other post goes through, as it is an easier guide to this situation, with easy clicking links.
——————————————————
All I ask is for people to find the answers themselves and not just take information as is. I encourage people to question what I am writing, but please do your homework and look into what I am saying.
No one here is wrong.
There are just different levels of knowledge.
I have read every post on this page.
First off maybe the significance of 20 and 13 is that being a transition year. 2013. Just a quick thought.
Personally, I believe there will be a change, but it is a very positive thing.
I have spent most of the last 30 + days reading about this. 10 hours a day, in a background of research, I have found much data. I didnt think my vacation would turn out this way, but it did.
I became interested when I stumbled upon the disclosure project. It is a good start for people to understand the larger picture. It is an hour long video of a conference. Lead by Dr. Stephen Greer, with many high ranking officials from the government, military, and others speak about what they know about the disclosure of UFO's.
Most I have shown this to become very interested (a word from Latin, to be between [inter-between, esse -verb to be]) in the disclosure. As I did too.
www.
youtube.com/watch?v=7vyVe-6YdUk
Are you interested now?
I, maybe like you, wondered as well, "why would these high ranking officials say such things and then say they are willing to testify in front of congress" . "testify in front of congress, that is very serious" Think about that.
I used to be more black and white in my logic. Now, I think in percentages of likelihood. Nothing is 100% true, and anything has a possibility. I truly recommend it as we go through this knowledge.
Also, It may be easier to digest these words as a sci-fi book.
If you agree that there are UFO's as is stated in the disclosure project. I am sure, like me, you may have asked:
1. Who are they?
2. What are they doing here?
3. Who are we, then?
4. What are we doing here?
5. What is the relationship of us and them?
I am going to spell out what those answers are and how they relate to 2012.
1. In a universe that has billions of stars in its galaxy, and there are billions of galaxies, I am sure you can imagine that there are different types of aliens.
Benevolent (bene =good)
Ones that serve others.
and
malevolent (male=bad)
Ones that serve themselves.
www.
burlingtonnews.net/greys.
html
Remember to not believe everything, just do more homework.
2.
…
Actually, I think it may be better to just show you some things. I am a qualitative (quality, not quantity) researcher, and this link will answer many questions in a qualitative way. (videos and transcripts)
www.
maya12-21-2012.
com
It is a positive understanding to 2012.
If that is an overload, just go to the videos:
www.
maya12-21-2012.com/ufo.
html
It lists most the disclosures about UFO's. If you did not think the disclosure project had enough witnesses, this will change your mind. I challenge you to look into it.
This is a helpful site as well.
www.
projectcamelot.org/interviews.
html
David W. has a very interesting perspective.
Underground military bases and the alien agenda-
Look into Phil Schneider
www.
newsnet7.com/view/290/the-ufo-lecture-by-philip-schneider-that-got-him-murdered/
Understand that the US is not ready for all of this disclosure, they would prefer more time.
Know that last year in May, Pres. Bush passed through himself Bill NSPD -51.
National Security Presidential Declaration: If he declares martial law, he gets control of the all levels of gov. down to the tribal level.
www.
youtube.com/watch?v=jatpX6kuxHQ
or the raw form of the document:
www.
whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05/20070509-12.
html
Check out what the military is doing.
dailydoseofterror.blogspot.com/2008/04/nuclear-war-test-dc-nuke-threataganda.
html
Also, here are the schedules of homeland securities activities:
www.
fas.org/irp/agency/dhs/nep
.pdf
Also, look into the bush family history on Wikipedia. Eg's – Prescott Bush, Skull and Bones at Yale, the families involvement in oil and gasoline since the conception of gasoline. Look into how much power they have had in the last 150 years. Look into the Rotschilds (german -red shield) Take time to look into Zeitgeist – Central bank, if you want to know more about our economic situation.
This may scare you, but you should not be worried. Teaching, learning and loving are the keys.
I am not afraid to die, and I prefer to teach others and learn.
The ending of all of this is a good outcome. It is a transition of consciousness.
We will still be human, but we will connect with energy on a different understanding.
Energy is neither created nor distroyed.
What is very important is to read the Law of One. Question and look up anything it writes in there and compare it to knowledge that we have. I have never been so impressed with a book. It has lead me to learn so much about earth's history, politcs, religions, physics, etc.
All of it seems very plausable
If you have trusted me this far, and have looked into what I have written, then please check this out, and read it like you are reading a sci-fi book. That way it will not be too overwhelming
www.
llresearch.org/library/the_law_of_one_pdf/the_law_of_one_pdf.
htm
I, too, thought crop circles were a joke. But This video got me thinking, It lead to me reading more about them. Simple ones could be fake. But some of them out there are beyond explanation. For example:
www.
youtube.com/watch?v=_KoR2t-iM9k&feature=related
This is a good message too:
www.
detailshere.com/galacticfederation
.htm
There are good ones overseeing our earth. They are hoping that the true "evil doers" will give up peacefully and stop harming. Service to self.
The good ones believe in free will.
I will end off on my thoughts about free will and fate:
Picture the game plinko on the Price is Right.
Plinko chip (flat circle)is your soul.
Plinko board (vertical board with pegs) is fate.
Picture the board now 3D in a cube
Picture chip as a sphere
Now imagine the cube interlocked with other cubes
Each overlapping peg is another "3D fate"
Imagine that large mesh of 3D cubes looks like a flowing river.
Family and friends 3D cubes are close to our as why they interact with us.
ever wonder why people keep popping into your life? Maybe there 3D fate cube is aligned with yours.
We can choose how we go through this river inside our 3D cube.
Fate, and free will.
When the cube ends, the soul still exists, but may be waiting to incarnate when the time is right.
“Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in. I drink at it; but while I drink I see the sandy bottom and detect how shallow it is. Its thin current slides away, but eternity remains. I would drink deeper; fish in the sky, whose bottom is pebbly with stars.†(Henry David Thoreau, from Walden)
I could write a lot more. Instead I will bookmark this and come back often to communicate with others who are truly interested in understanding this phenomenon. I do not know all the answers, but I have gathered a lot of information and I am willing to share what I know. I will be learning in the meanwhile. Currently, I am learning about the Faraday effect.
I look forward to communicating with you about this subject.
Cheers with beers
May 21st, 2008 at 5:01 am
Good article – however as usual one thing is missing. Assumptions are all made that the Mayan calendar is the only thing there is to work with, that ALL the concern over something happening in 2012 is based on one long count cycle ending/beginning at that time.
Well I'm sorry but that's incorrect.
There is an ancient TRADITION, (one of many) carried down through time by living human beings. THE MAYANS THEMSELVES. They are not extinct!
Now granted, they don't speak a whole bunch – especially to "know it alls" the likes of you. What could they tell you anyway? You don't ask. You don't listen.
But I would highly recommend it.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:08 am
I find this topic fascinating but for other reasons. I believe the Mayan, Aztec, and Olmec cultures were much more advanced than our egotistical uppity european culture will allow. One this you are missing with the calendar rounds is the "ages". the Mayan, etc believe not just in a 5125 year round but that as you all say, it rolls over. In fact it rolls over 5 time. this roll over is called the solar year. and 5×5125 very closing approximates the time it takes the sun to make one revolve around (about 25,600 years) . The mayan calendar has us in the last age when the calendar doesn't just roll over, but the solar year rolls over as well. To them, that was even more important.
But what gets me with all of this is the OTHER calendars, sumarian, tibetian, cherokee, plus others that all seen to measure the same astrological events on calendars that measures time in ages that conclude somewhere around 2012. I don't necessarily believe in the end of world, just how was it that all these geographically dispersed societies all have the same capabilities. How did that happen without modern communications.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:30 am
These comments have been more fun to read then the article itself. Since i haven’t really seen it discussed here I would like to point out a few things. Sorry if I am treading old ground here.
Around the time of 2012 our solar system will be passing through the galactic plane. The invisible gravity line that runs through the milkyway holding all the dust and debris in place as it swirls around the center. I believe this plane and our movement towards it is the origin of the 13th astrological sign Ophiuchus.
Take what you will from that. It's all true. I get two things outta it. 1) We are going to be moving through an area of space where gravity is stronger and much more inclined to behave in a way we are not familiar with. So space rocks once charted to miss us could be shifted closer. That's kinda a negative sping . You could also look at it as the fact that once we are through the plain we will be on the other side of the galaxy! We should get some better views of stars and other galaxies that were once obscured by the dust and debris in caught in the plain.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:32 am
Dear All,
Ignore all the predictions and the Mayan calendar just for a while, then take a long hard look at the status quo of the Human and natural world.
War, climate (including increased earthquakes, volcanic activity etc) , health, increasing lack of freedom, food shortage, etc. Many mistakes have been made, but this is how humans learn.
After much has been sacrificed by many, it is my hope that the human race will be wiser, and there in lies the silver lining and a better quaity life for all life on Earth.
Maybe we should demand the Freedom to be at Peace.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:41 am
*Sigh*. The "woo" never ends…
There is something a little sad about the fact that a solid debunking article has attracted the largest collection of pseudoscientific junk I've seen on this site.
All I hope is that you guys will accept that you're wrong when *nothing* out of the ordinary at all happens in 2012 and that none of you decides to *make* something terrible happen to hide your disappointment.
(And remember earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tsunami, etc. can and do happen at any time, so when a "big one" happens in 2012, somewhere on the planet, it's not a sign of the end, it's a natural event, just like Katrina, Burma, China, the Indian Ocean tsunami, etc. etc.).
May 21st, 2008 at 6:50 am
The poles have shifted many times in the earths past, creating lots of natural disasters and unexplainable events. Many scientists believe this to be the reason that birds/bees are dying off and having incorrect migratory patterns.
2012 also is the year the earth aligns with the solar center of our solar system for the first time in some ridiculously long time.
I wouldn't rule out some sort of major event or start of major events on that date, May not be the apocalypse but the start of.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:02 am
ok wow you solved it great job, but lets consider the hellish world we will with no doubt be living in by that time anyway. of course im not not talking bible but talking cost of living, discomfort with politics and even technology. so its 2012 and i can find your birh weight on google and your social if i hack your local governmennt because moores law your civil liberties are screwed with or without the mayans welcome the end of you and welcome also the beginning of globalization and the american union.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:15 am
"yup, that means earth is done for. cause when i line up my baseball, basketball, football, soccer ball, tennis ball, volleyball, and beach ball, they are instantly destroyed. rubbish."
You sir, have a gross misunderstanding of the forces in our universe if you compare astral bodies to toys…
May 21st, 2008 at 7:31 am
Dear Tacitus,
Please keep in mind that for many many people Katrina, Burma etc was the end, they died, and for the survivors….their world/life has been changed completely.
Just as the Earth has its seasons so does the Solar System. The Mayans amongst many past civilisations, just as we do in present times, studied astronomy.
We study space not only to be able to explore it one day or get in touch with alien races, but also to be better prepared for the seasonal changes that effect our solar system as we orbit the galaxy.
The world will not end, but there are significant, even if they are subtle, changes taking place.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:56 am
I'm kind of rooting for the Mayans on this one what with the way everything is going down the toilet on this planet. Maybe humans will die out that day and be replaced by cats or something as the dominant species. The cats will be too busy lying around resting up all day for their evening snooze to fight over retarded crap like allah or overpriced oil.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:22 am
No one can know the real future,only trends with possible outcomes All fortune telers would therefore be telling HOG WASH..
May 21st, 2008 at 8:24 am
I dispute that there "will always be another doomsday date." We have what, about another 1-2 billion years before the Sun's death throws obliterate the Earth anyway… Seems to me that the Sun's boiling of the Earth, then possibly swallowing it (the alternative being a massive orbital shift for Earth) will be a pretty definitive "doomsday."
"It happens." -a quote nearly as valuable to universal wisdom as "42."
May 21st, 2008 at 8:36 am
hey eric learn to spell.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:38 am
The Mayan carvings also stated that "After 2012 there would be many choices". I personally have not yet come accross any Mayan translation that categorically stated "The end of the World". Changes and choices ….yes….an end…..no.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:49 am
Well some people defined the new "enlightenment" as a change in the way human look at things, instead of going scientific, it is believed that we will go "spiritual" again its all theories people make up… not much evidence to based on…
oh also people linked the earthquake in china to this as well…
Doomsday does not necessary mean that everyone dies… i heard form somewhere that only 1/3 people dies and its consider doomsday…
May 21st, 2008 at 8:54 am
leah,
I agree with you on one thing, when we die, it is the end of the world for us. I didn't say that Katrina or Burma weren't significant events — for those involved they are hugely tragic events and their impact should not be diminished. However, for as long as we exist on this planet these things will continue to happen. Many places on Earth are dangerous places to live — a "hook echo" (a radar signal for a possible tornado) passed within a half-a-mile of my house last week. If the weather conditions had been just a little different, I might not have been here today to post this message.
What I was trying to say is that 2012 will almost certainly be just be like any other year, with it's own share of natural and man-made disasters. What is absolutely certain is that the Mayans had zero knowledge of what is going to happen in 2012. They had neither the capability nor the technology to even begin to predict Earthbound or astronomical events so far into the future.
As for looking ahead to the possibilities and dangers that space will hold, yes, that's great and that's all part of the scientific process I wholeheartedly endorse. But science also tells us there is nothing to fear from space (unless we're taken by surprise by an asteroid which is always a possibility) in the short term (i.e. a few years).
There is no doubt there will be dangers to face in long term, but (except for asteroid strikes) we're talking about tens of thousands of years and probably millions of years into the future. Space is unbelievably big and it takes a huge amount of time for our solar system's environs to change significantly as we travel around the center of the galaxy. Predicting that something significant will happen in 2012 is simply visiting the land of woo.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:57 am
In the calculation of years between 0.0.0.0.0 to 13.0.0.0.0 as 5126, if you use base 20 for all decimal places, it actually ends up being 5698.63 years and not 5126. Also, being base 20, why does the calander stop at 13.0.0.0.0 and not 20.0.0.0.0?
May 21st, 2008 at 8:58 am
Its a pity that no one past civilisation has been able to survive to chronicle a complete solar orbit of the Milky Way.
They have however been able to leave enough information, each in turn, for us to put the pieces together and realise that from time to time Earth is subjected to great changes during a short period of time.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:13 am
Dear Tacitus,
Good that you are still with us. Re Tornados, I've often wondered why they hit towns etc so often. Is it the fact that temperatures are slightly higher than in the open countryside, or the EM fields created by electrical equiptment ? I would value your thoughts on this as you have first hand experience.
I have had experience of floods, hurricanes and earthquakes, but not tornados. Do they form/hit mostly during the daytime?
May 21st, 2008 at 9:17 am
Wow what a ridiculous theory…..now about that Rapture half of America believes in? Since thats actually from God and not some theory thats thousands of years old….oh wait
In all honesty though the myths/theories/prophecy's around this area of time are not just Mayan. The Age of Aquarius is sometime in the general area if your thinking on a larger scale (2100-2500) which is also supposed to the beginning of the age of enlightenment or in the case of Mayan "change"
I would be more then happy to see the religions and governments of the world unite and just work together to progress humanity. Even if its just to make sure the theory the world is going to end is not true.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:27 am
well i'm never going to believe anybody when they yell the world's going to end because it's probably the same people that said that in the last few tries.
and for the doomsday seed vaults, theyre making that for global warming purposes not for this that's freaking dumb the government won't spend millions of dollars over a western superstition. and when i mean western, i mean the americans theyre the only ones saying this and theyre the only ones saying the world's going to end, not the mayans the mayans didn't say anything about the world coming to an end when their calender ends.
if u want to know the real truth and see when the world will really end, then watch the "inconvinent truth" by ronald reagan global warming will end us but not for a very long time.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:30 am
"u want to know the real truth and see when the world will really end, then watch the "inconvinent truth" by ronald reagan global warming will end us but not for a very long time."
lol did u just say it was done by Ronald Regan? don't u mean Al Gore? lol
May 21st, 2008 at 9:46 am
I'm sure there are plenty of morons who believe the world will "end", but anyone who has studied true mayan belief and the like believes it's a changing in consciousness, in some way. I appreciate the skepticism but it's filled with the air of not giving these beliefs a fair shot. First off, there are lots of things happening in 2012 that support something strange going on (not an asteroid hit, but no one is predicting that anyway) like our alignment with the center of the milky way, the sun reaching the greatest strength in terms of sunspots etc. we've ever seen it, and it's also in the range for plenty of modern predictions such as when peak oil will occur and when those mysterious missing bees will reach a very low point.
No, it isn't a doomsday. but you cannot look back at history honestly without admitting that we've lost lots of information that the ancients possessed. they knew things and built things with methodology we cannot explain with all of our modern science. It is not far fetched to believe that their knowledge had to do with their connection to the universe and it's natural rotations. After all, we're all living in the same plane and we're all an extension of all of these rotations and movements from our atoms up to circling galaxies.
Friends, the new science will not grow without a fusion with philosophy. Open mindedness and scrutiny are the ultimate keys to achieving an unbiased understanding, and anything less with stray you away from truth.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:51 am
What ? No one referenced Terence McKenna's work in which he talks of being able to chart Novelty. He has developed "Timewave Zero", a computer program that can calculate the Novelty at any time.
On that date, at that moment Novelty goes up to a singularity. Terence calls it The End of History, certainly the end of history as we know it.
The Wikipedia entry http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novelty_Theory defines "Novelty theory attempts to calculate the ebb and flow of novelty in the universe as an inherent quality of time. … (Novelty theory involves ontology, morphogenesis, and eschatology.) Novelty, in this context, can be thought of as newness, density of complexification, and dynamic change as opposed to static habituation.
Though this may sound like independent insight to you, Terence connected it deeply to the Mayan Calendar and the Chinese book of wisdom, the I Ching.
"The fluctuations in novelty over time are self-similar at different scales" which is a fractal characteristic. "when "novelty" is graphed over time, a fractal waveform known as timewave zero or simply the timewave results. "
Novelty Theory sees "That the universe is a living system with a teleological attractor at the end of time that drives the increase and conservation of complexity in material forms."
And "That as the complexity and sophistication of human thought and culture increase, universal novelty approaches a Koch curve of infinite exponential growth."
"That in the time immediately prior to, and during this omega point of infinite novelty, anything and everything conceivable to the human imagination will occur simultaneously.
"That the date of this historical endpoint is December 21, 2012, the end of the long count of the Mayan calendar. …McKenna used the solstice date in 2012… although this date corresponds to such an abbreviation rather than the full date. "
"This End of History was to be the final manifestation of The Eschaton, which McKenna characterized as a sort of strange attractor towards which the evolution of the universe developed.
His predictions for this transcendent event were wide ranging and varied, depending on his audience, and different times he conjectured the following: the mass of humanity would, by means of some technology, become mentally conjoined in a great collective; the moment in which time travel became a reality; the birth of self-conscious artificial intelligence; a global UFO visitation; and occasionally he even expressed doubt whether anything at all would happen. However, McKenna claimed that there was no contradiction between these scenarios, as they might all happen simultaneously."
Now this is fun to talk about.
No one is an idiot, some people are just preoccupied with whatever is important to them, Bingo, the Lakers, the Almighty Dollar, one of the many stories of a virgin birth followed by a murder and a missing corpse.
Chose your (debate) weapons humans!
May 21st, 2008 at 10:02 am
Hey leah, well I'm hardly an expert on tornadoes just because I've been through a couple of near misses. That would be like claiming to be a master sailor after being a passenger in a ship wreck!
But I think I know enough to have a stab at answering your questions.
Tornadoes don't strike towns more than open country. In fact, it's the other way around, and probably by a considerable margin — there is much more open country for the tornadoes to hit, and Tornado Alley in the mid-west has vast stretches of open countryside.
However tornadoes happen frequently enough that they are not big news *unless* they strike a populated area and kill or injure people. For every one tornado that strikes a town or city, there are probably a lot more that go unreported because all they did was tear up a patch of open ground or down a few trees. So what you are seeing is a case of reporter bias — only tornadoes that hit towns and cities tend to make the news shows.
I don't believe there is any evidence for the "heat island" effect causing more tornadoes — it might, I guess, but so far the difference isn't measurable, so it's small if it does exist. And EM fields from electrical equipment are nowhere near strong enough to cause tornadoes, not even close.
Tornadoes can happen any time of the day or night, but the most common time is late afternoon, when daytime heating from the sun is at its greatest. I live in Austin, TX, and when we have storms, they usually begin to weaken once it gets dark, but that doesn't mean they can't still pack a punch. A friend of mine had his car damaged and a window blown in by a supercell thunderstorm that rolled in last week in the middle of the night. There were no tornadoes fortunately, but it was bad enough!
Hope that helps!
May 21st, 2008 at 10:04 am
April 13, 2029
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaW4Ol3_M1o
May 21st, 2008 at 10:06 am
Thanks Tacitus, it does help.
May 21st, 2008 at 10:19 am
What abt australia will it end on 22nd?
May 21st, 2008 at 10:34 am
I have read this entire article and every comment, and I just don't understand why you all aren't taking Tacitus' words seriously?! I mean, with all the knowledge he's putting forth, accompanied with the egotistical witty remarks, you all must be blind to the fact that he's God's Right Hand Man and KNOWS that our future is BEYOND bright. So, OBVIOUSLY, he knows the whole agenda and can also answer CORRECTLY many other questions! So, I'm going to suggest that we all go out and hand build (because machine built would be too quick and show a lack of commitment) massive stone monuments in his glory, start a religion based on the FLAWLESS comments that come out of his mouth, and start a brand new calendar based on his GRAND knowledge that will tell us exactly what is to come in the future. Since he knows that the world is NOT going to end, then he MUST know what is in store for us.
So, if you'll excuse me, I must leave my superior piece of electrical equipment and grab my ropes and logs, because I have a LOT of 1500 TON rocks to move!
May 21st, 2008 at 10:43 am
Wake up! The Mayan calendar is a representation of a cycle of consciousness, not time. Time depends on consciousness. 2012 is the end of a cycle of spiritual development. Nothing is as it seems, follow the coincidences – look within.
-peace, namaste'
May 21st, 2008 at 10:48 am
Dear Tacitus worshipper,
Its a shame that so many are reluctant to grant others the freedom of opinion. Do you have an opinion re the future possibilities ?
May 21st, 2008 at 10:49 am
hahahahaha!!! I haven't heard the 'end of the world', only the 'end of an Age'. I think your article is silly. Let any idiot who beileves the end is coming, believe it. Who cares? Why waste your time?
Cheers!
May 21st, 2008 at 11:08 am
solid argument but still not convincing.
It's not just the Mayans who predicted this date for the inevitable doomsday. Over 50 different cultures came up with this date, give or take a few years, without having any communication or knowledege of one another. The I Ching, Nostradamus, etc are examples. NASA themselves said "the sun will reach its solar peak on December 21, 2012." There will be a polar shift. The planet itself will be alighned with the center of our galaxy on this exact date, and in the center of the galaxy is a super-massive black hole. I'm not sure what will happen, but you can't dismiss this as nothing. It is far too backed up with both facts and beliefs, unlike other predictions like y2k. I can tell you that I will be a little anxious on that day.
May 21st, 2008 at 11:09 am
Ohh yeah, and the mayan calander ends on that date — into a new age — the age of peace.
how else will you get peace in this pathetic planet, unless humans are eliminated
May 21st, 2008 at 11:12 am
True. The end of the world won't happen in 2012. The end of civilization will come much sooner than that because of oil and nobody will care about 2012 when they can't afford to eat or live.
May 21st, 2008 at 11:14 am
Dear Worshipper,
I humbly accept your praise and devotion for I deserve nothing less.
But you must understand that building the world's greatest monument in my memory is the least of things that I require of you.
First, you must send me 8% of your income every month (that's a discount of 2% from the typical Jewish and Christian tithe rate of 10%, so that's a bargain), and you must recruit at least three willing and devoted supermodels to my religion every year without fail or my wrath will fall upon you.
These things, and many others, you shall do for me until the end of days (which happens to be in Feb. 2021, which is why I know for certain that nothing will happen in 2012).
Your Great Lord and Master,
Tacitus
May 21st, 2008 at 11:24 am
seek the truth….
w w w . h a s h e m s f i l m s . c o m
May 21st, 2008 at 11:52 am
If world leaders take my advice, then 2012 could be the start of something good! Only an institution like the UN can make this happen…
Solving "peak oil" :
1. All countries agree to use nuclear fission
2. Once a year or so, all countries chip in to launch their collective radioactive waste into sun/or space.
3. Improve re-cycling to the point of everyone being able to put out their trash for collection like normal, and focus on converting a large amount of the garbage into an oil that can replace oil-based products
4. Provide large incentives/or penalties to encourage having no more than 1 child for a period of 5 years to decrease population. Maybe once more about 15 years after.
This should buy us enough time to diversify and improve renewable energy such as solar to offset any shortage that may occur with uranium, etc.
* I'm not an expert, so please don't crucify me…but if I'm wrong, by all means say your piece…and contribute by coming up with a better plan.
2012+ can be good or bad, and maybe it's within our scope or out of our hands, but we have to at least try !
May 21st, 2008 at 12:17 pm
WELL THE WORLD IS NOT GONNA END.PEOPLE…THE WORLD IN OUR HEADS..OUR BRAIN, IS OUR WORLD… THE PHIYSICAL WORLD IS GOING TO GO ON…BUT OUR LIFE WILL END AT SOME POINT…THE WORLD HAS GONE THOUGHT MAY CHANGES.SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME …IT'S STILL HERE…IT HAS NOT GONE ANYWHERE…ASTRIOD BOMBARMENTS, CLIMATE CHANGES,EARTHQUAKES,VOLCANIC ERUPTIONS,POLUTIONS,OVER POPULATIONS,TORNADOS,ECT,,,SO THE WORLD WILL BE HERE LONG AFTER HUMANITY IS GONE…IT WILL FIND A WAY TO REPRDUCE IT'SELF..WITH LIFE ALOVER AGAIN…
May 21st, 2008 at 12:30 pm
If world leaders take my advice, then 2012 could be the start of something good! Only an institution like the UN can make this happen…
If you believe the UN can do anything, then you have my deepest sympathies. The UN can't find their behind with a funnel.
May 21st, 2008 at 12:33 pm
This fight will go on forever. And as I stated earlier, when this supposed "doomsday" doesnt happen, theyll just come up with another "doomsday" date. Get over it. YOUR WRONG.
May 21st, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Great sense of humour Tacitus.
We need not repeat the one child family scenario, as two children per woman would in fact reduce the world population quickly. Easier said than implemented.
If governments and corporations had not confiscated/shelved the many inventions that negate the use of coal, oil etc, over the past 100 years, we would be living in a much healthier world.
There is less or no profit in clean free energy that all could understand and tap into. The powers that be want the multitudes to be reliant upon them for food, water, jobs, and energy.
Read Tesla and the like. Mikey c is right, that so many have written about 2012 in the past, it cannot be just coincidence, whether they were in touch with eachother or not. Given the choice I would like to think that Problem solver is right, and that by 2012 there will be a huge change in the way we humans conduct ourselves.
May 21st, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Oh praise the mighty tacitus
On another note, it amazes me how passionate people are about thier beliefs. I thought that religon was out dated and unhip
May 21st, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Good Grief! To all of you skeptics, you want proof that the world will end in 2012? OK, then I'll give you the proof! I just dusted off an old relic in my attic that my father used to use to tell the future. He used to tell me that I could always depend on it giving me the glorious or the grim truth about the future of our world. And yes, the answer is that the earth will indeed come to an end in 2012 because "yes" was the answer on the bottom of the tell-all 8-Ball.
May 21st, 2008 at 1:07 pm
There is one truth that shouts through the ages as civilisations have come and gone.
In the unforgetable words of Morpheus from the Matrix trilogy "WE ARE STILL HERE"
If this trend continues, we as a species will be here for a long while.
May 21st, 2008 at 1:12 pm
A number of cultures went stone-monument crazy around 3100 BC. Chances are they Mayans chose that point to start their calender because of some large scale event (probably astrological) like a meteor or commit being visible in the sky. This is similar to how we created our calender. At one point it was just decided that the year 0 would be when Jesus was born. Regardless if you believe in Jesus or not mankind once again used some arbitrary point in history to start their calendar just like the Mayan's did.
May 21st, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Quote: "markm Says:
May 19th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
Thank you for having the patience to make a rational, skeptical argument over something extremely silly. It's sad that the people who believe such silly stuff, however, aren't always welcoming of rationality or skepticism."
Yeap. Then again, when do matters of religion ever fall within the realm of logic?
May 21st, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Lets see, ways I can prove this article wrong in a few minutes that I have….
First off, you clearly have a very, very horrible idea about the mayan calander. I mean, I thought my knowledge was limited, but, my God, it's like you hardly even made an attempt. The reason the mayan calander has been refered to so much with doomsday prophecies is because the mayan calander has been practically perfect if not completely perfect with everything it's predicted, from cycles of the earth, sun and moon, to even predicting wars and impactful moments in earth's history. It is by far more accurate than any other calander. It is also said that this calander was helped out by the quetzalcoatl, and if memory serves another diety described as a white man with long brown hair and a beard wearing all white (sounds a lot like Jesus, doesn't it?).
The reason most other apocalyptic prophecies have been false is because people have not had any base off of this. Take for example the y2k bug, there was hardly anything that would've signified the end the world, it's just people chose to blow it out of proportion. The difference in the mayan calander, though, is that most people have completely gotten the notion of it wrong. While yes, it does say the world will end (it's said that the world has ended 4 times in the past, the last one being water, kinda like noah's flood, next element signifying an age of awakening), but like you said, it's a cycle, so a new cycle will continue. The way the mayans use the term "end" is in a sense of humanity AS WE KNOW IT will end, meaning humanity will change. It's said that humanity will go through a great leap in conciousness during this hour, so yes, there will be a december 22, 2012, it won't be anything like december 20, 2012. If you want to know more about this great leap in conciousness, I suggest watching a very informative documentary by a man named Michael Tsarian, called "2012: The future of mankind." He'll go into great detail about this leap in conciousness, why it'll happen, ect.
No, the mayans are not MOST famous for the pyramids, they're most famous for 2 things, the mayan calander, and the fact that their civilization vanished without a trace i the blink of an eye.
The mayan calander did have a strong spiritual connection, because they felt it was stupid to seperate the physical world from the divine. Like I previously stated, it was one of their Gods that personally helped them create this calander. The mere fact that it's so accurate gives it a great amount of credit, it'll be stupid for anyone to dismiss it as just some crazy thing a bunch of uneducated primal people made up, it is highly complex and advanced.
I find it hillarious that you actually bring up the gregorean calander as if it's the end all calander. The gregorean calander was made by Pope Gregory, who made a great amount of mistakes and inconsistancies in this calander (having to create a leap year, months ending at random days, ect, our natural biological cycle runs on a 25 hour cycle, not a 24, so even letting ourselves be ruled by our current calander is a stupid thing to do).
Trying to somehow refute the mayan calander by saying it has a lot of short cycles, it's so illogical that I cannot even comprehend how you could even muster a thought towards attempting to bring it up. The calendar STARTS OFF with the largest cycles, which as you stated goes on for several thousand years, then it gets smaller and smaller until we get to those small cycles. Especially considering you brough up the gregorean calendar (secons, minutes, hours, days, weeks….), you should justnot have even tried this. This shows the greatest amount of ignorance about the mayan calendar, my God.
The mayans believed that time was like a circle, and not a straight line as modern society views it as. They felt that history always repeats itself, which is a common saying even in today's times.
The mayan calendar was not just based on one thing, it was based on many things, from the menstral cycle to the moon cycle to pregnancy to the cycle of seasons, the list goes on and on. This is just basic stuff, did you just go to wikipedia to look up random facts and start typing this article?
Alright, I'm just going to throw out random facts thatgo against most of your article, feel free to look any of them up.
You say there's no evidence to suggest anything happening come 2012.
*A new cycle of solar sun spots are said to hit the earth sometime around this year, at around 2012 is when they will reach their peak, according to scientists. I'm personally not going to go into how this can cause a polar magnetic shift, but that is something else you can look into.
It has been recorded that the earrth's rotation has been slowing down the last couple of years, and is continuing to slow down, something that has never been previously recorded.
Aside from they mayans, the aztecs, native americans (tribes like the hopi), celts, druids, pagans, and chinese (I-ching, zero point) all have predictions on that exact same date, civilizzations, a good number of which have never even come in contact with each other, predicting dec. 21, 2012.
In 2012, I believe specifically on Dec. 21st, the earth is supposed to enter the EXACT center of the galeexy, the milky way, right on that date.
In astrology, we're entering the age of aquarius, which is said to bring about destruction.
I'm an individual with a very bad memory, and the only thing I looked up through this entire typing was how to correctly spell quetzalcoatl. To be ableto refute so much of your article just going off my memory alone, it shows that you really didn't put much thought into writing this, nor have you really done any research into the mayan calendar. I feel sad, because I was expectig to actually see some iconsistancies in my knowledge and hopefully answer many questions I still have, but all this article did was make me roll my eyes. Please try harder if you intend to make another article with better arguments.
May 21st, 2008 at 2:54 pm
HAS ANYONE READ ANY JOHN MAJOR JENKINS ON THE SUBJECT?
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND.
http://alignment2012.com/
May 21st, 2008 at 2:56 pm
ydb — sorry in advance for being rude, but most of what you're saying is just plain silly. Your rendition of Mayan history is completely nonsensical (no "god" gave them the calendar, they invented it themselves, and no, they didn't predict *every* war and disaster — they probably didn't even predict their own demise — and they didn't vanish without a trace — the direct descendants of Mayan people still live in the Yucatan and Belize today (I've seen them myself!!). Their civilization probably just petered out because of warfare or climate change.
Now, as for the rest of your comment:
1) Solar cycles have been happening every 11 years for the past few billion years, and Earth has survived quite nicely through hundreds of thousands of solar maximums. The next one will be no different.
2) Say what? The Earth's rotation just started slowing down? Don't be silly. Where on earth do people get this stuff? Not happening.
3) There is not a chance all those peoples came to the same conclusion about one day in 2012. Someone is lying to you. Again, not happening.
4) The Earth is passing through the center of the Galaxy? Now that's a bit of a shocker! Last time I looked, we were 26,000 light years away! Once again, not happening…. ever…!
5) Astrology is bunk — need I go on?
To sum up, ydb, it's kind of funny you're criticizing the author of the article for his "mistakes" when your comment stuggles to come up with just one correct fact.
May 21st, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Well this is very interesting indeed. i listened to the show a long while back on this very subject and it was interesting. i tried to call that night too but couldnt get through but oh well. There is no alarm for the so called end of life. It is even more silly than this post im looking at near the end here. This is a well made article. i believe the very same thing that most of the people are talking about right this moment. Something huge is going to happen BUT not the end of life. To think something like is just ridiculous. The fact that I am not a religious person either makes the end of life sound even more dumb. Anyway i very much agree that something big is going to happen. People are acting way more rash than usual. They don't seem to realize what it is they are doing. Then this weird and unsettling feeling that looms over the city. Even more strangely are how many animals are even acting. This is all i can say for now I have work to do. later all.
May 21st, 2008 at 3:02 pm
The answer is quite simple. The Maya were dumb. Though not as dumb as those that thought that 2 digits were enough to store a year value on a computer (Y2K) or that four values from 0 to 255 (approx 2.3 billion combinations) would give us enough IP addresses.
May 21st, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Actually, what Ian didn't mention at all, is that the Mayan's are known for have being able to predict (with extreme accuracy) lunar and solar eclipses thousands and thousands of years before they happened with their Calender. And yes, this has been proven.
It's also been proven that, on December 21, 2012 (or sometime very close to this date), Earth will be aligned with the sun and the center of the universe for the first time in 25,000 years. Another fact that has been proven even by NASA.
While that's all fine and good, no one knows what this exactly means. It could mean the world just keeps on moving and revolving around, nothing changed. It could mean the Earth is thrown off its axis, causing extreme destruction and switching the poles around (which also is speculated to have happened before, but with no solid proof). And it also could mean, to some extremists, that a new planet will enter our solar system with giants on it that originally put us here. But I digress.
I'm not a nut that believes in end of the world prophesies. Yet, something about 12/21/12 seems a little off to me. Should you stop your career, head to the streets of New York with banners, and start proclaiming the end of the world and that we should all do something about it like collect some ridiculous crystals or whatnot? No. But on that day something that hasn't happened in 25,000 years is happening. And that, I think, is something to note.
If the end of the world is coming, then there's not much we can do about it. If not, then that's best outcome, obviously. But what's even more obvious, though, is that no one will know for certain until December 21, 2012.
Looks like we'll just have to wait and see.
May 21st, 2008 at 3:15 pm
Sorry, typo up there. Not the center of the universe, but the center of our galaxy.
lol center of the universe.
May 21st, 2008 at 3:24 pm
To ydb:
You are obviously a very knowledgeable person, kudos to you. But you've obviously not understood what I've written. I gave a very brief rundown of the situation with the Mayan calendar – this was by NO MEANS an exhaustive study of the Mayan civilization. I am no where near being an expert, so I invite you to provide me with an exhaustive rundown as to why I am so wrong.
(And for the record, Wikipedia, whilst informative, isn't always accurate – I never use it when writing articles for the Universe Today.)
My argument (which you obviously didn't get) was to play down all the hype associated with the fear surrounding the "end" of the Mayan Long Count. There is absolutely NO basis for us to predict the future in any case, pinning all our superstitions about the "end of the world" on the end of an ancient calendar. There are so many articles citing that the Mayans predict the world is coming to an end. This was never the case! If anything they predict an age of enlightenment (what ever form that may come in, not necessarily doomsday).
To be honest I was taking you seriously until you brought the astrological predictions of Aquarius. In my humble opinion, astrology has been a poor future prediction tool. It is totally open to interpretation. And you must forgive me, I'm a scientist and have little belief in stuff you cannot exhaustively test scientifically.
And don't you worry my friend, I haven't finished yet. I will give you some VERY good arguments for each doomsday myth (including solar activity – btw: I'm a solar physicist). Bookmark the site, I'll look forward to your future opinion
Ian
May 21st, 2008 at 3:26 pm
lol, thank you guys – I'm glad you understood what I wrote
Cheers! Ian
May 21st, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Throughout each cycle/age there are peaks and troughs in climatic activity, (incl earthquakes, volcanic eruptions etc). Considering our location in the galaxy and solar maximum in 2012, the climate trend of recent times, and the possible fly by of a planet even Nasa is tracking, it is fairly safe to say that times around 2012 are times of peak activity.
There will be an increase in intensity and or number of earthquakes, hurricanes etc, which will take their toll, and no doubt will change people's perspectives/attitude and re-order priorities.
May 21st, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Another interesting take on doomsday would be the fact that Isaac Newton used the bible the predict the "end of the world" around 2060. At least thats what I read in a bio about him.
May 21st, 2008 at 3:43 pm
If the world does end 2012 will I get a rebate on my broadband connection? As I pay for an entire year.
May 21st, 2008 at 3:45 pm
I just wanted to say also ~ TRY TELLING THAT THERE IS NO END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT~ TO THE KATRINA SURVIVORS, TO THE TISUNAMI SUVIVORS IN INDONESA,
TO THE MYANMAR VICTIMS, TO THE CHINESE PEOPLE OF SICHUAN DEVISTATED BY EARTQUAKES, TO THE PEOPLE OF IRAQ & AFGANISTAN, AND THE LIST OF PEOPLE WHO DISAGREE WILL BE ENDLESS, BECAUSE OUR WORLD HAS CHANGED AND WILL CONTINUE.
WHAT COULD THE END MEAN TO YOU?
May 21st, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Oh heck – I've got a calendar that ends at the end of this year!!! Oh no! … Wait a minute … come to think of it last year I had a calendar that ended at the end of last year… and we are all still here…??? How can that be??!!
May 21st, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Ha,ha!
The responders seem to believe in DEMOCRACY (read:PANTOCRACY) , therefore everyone can write down his soughts without really knowing the subject and without much thinking…
Here is another idea of what may or will happen around the year 2012, not necesarely at that precise date.
It is a theory expressed by the Native shamans in South America:
There will be a new great war over faith!
During that time 2 explosions on the Sun will happen.The first will fry all the computers.
The second about 9 month later will fry everything else!
But LIFE on the planet will go on!
Let`s laugh together!!!
May 21st, 2008 at 4:17 pm
All wars are due to greed (a religion in its own class) and religious beliefs. Correct me if I'm wrong but the middle east situation is both over religion and oil (oil=money).
The solar maximum could very well produce 2 powerful flares that will knock out electrical equiptment and fry much of earth.
The first of the Shaman predictions has and is happening now.
May 21st, 2008 at 4:24 pm
too bad the writer of the article as not done the research necessary to do the job of telling others what is what. the importance of the end-date lies in the astronomical configurations on that day, something i cant find in the article.
further, nowhere in Mayan writing is there talk of the end of the world. what the date signifies is the end of a world-age. big difference.
whether or not the end of the world-age will come with a bang or a whimper is not known by anyone.
this article is just another instance of "skeptics¨ being anything but truly skeptical.
May 21st, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Look at all these people calling others "idiots." These same people name-calling probably said the same thing about people who believed things like the Gulf of Tonkin was a scam, but they would never apologize for it and admit to being the "idiot" themselves.
Then there is the issue of hiding behind skepticism as a means to attain some form of legitimacy because skepticism, in it's true form, is skeptical of BOTH sides. The modern day "skeptic" is more akin to a debunker who goes into things with a preconceived view of what is true and then attempts to prove that view in an alleged unbiased manner.
Regardless of the fact that nothing will happen on 2012, the kinds of people who post here are certainly no more intelligent than those who believe these theories, and most definitely are not honest "skeptics."
May 21st, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Your Right ! The world isn't going to end on Dec 21, 2012. It's going to be thrown into kaos on Feb 14, 2013 when Nibiru passes close enough to stop the rotation of the earth for 3 days days and shift the poles north to south. I've done my homework for the last 22 years. Start looking at the sunset the latter part of 2010 and tell me what you see.
May 21st, 2008 at 4:49 pm
The debate re 2012 is moot from one perspective. The orbit of the solar system around the galaxy takes approx 226 million years (1 galactic year). Whether that number is accurate or not, for sure it takes more than a few thousand years. Therefore we will not be in the same location on our orbit as the Mayans were in their day.
The experience that the Mayans and previous known civilisations had and the experience we are having/will have cannot be identical, very simalar… yes.
It seems wise to at least to acknowlege 2012, which so many attached such importance to and to ensure the information survived through time so that we can learn from their experience.
May 21st, 2008 at 4:53 pm
all good information… considering a lot of people now understand that the original interpretations of a "dooms-day" scenario happening is false. however, the 2012 date can't be analyzed just from the aspect of the maya, nor thrown aside because one interpretation of it is false. the date is still important to humanity in some way according to unaffiliated tribes and civilizations. isn't that odd? (
im just hoping i grow a pair of wings!
May 21st, 2008 at 4:55 pm
To Zed, Kindly refer to the last paragraph of your most recent post.
You too are "one of those kinds of people who post here".
There have been many informed and intelligent posts. Check it out from the beginning.
May 21st, 2008 at 5:06 pm
Dear Marc,
Niburu, planet X ect, is what I refered to in an earlier post. The magnetic field around earth is weak, (most probable cause of bees disappearing and birds dying on the wing en mass), magnatic pole reversal, if it goes all the way, is virtually at half way.
Niburu should be visible with the naked eye late May 2009, as a red dot mostly in the southern hemisphere. If it does fly by in 2012, we can expect major tectonic activity etc at the very least, at worst a pole shift.
May 21st, 2008 at 6:06 pm
hmmmmm this guy says "There is so much evidence against these things happening in 2012,", but does not elaborate on any facts in this article. I wonder what evidence he has that a rouge meteorite isn't going to hit the planet????
May 21st, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Woe – this is quite a tour of the pseudosciences we're getting on this thread. Now we're on to Niburu — or Planet X.
Sorry Leah, but there is no such thing as Planet X — at least not one that will fly anywhere close to Earth in the next few thousand years at least. How do we know? Because of all the telescopes and observers who are continually surveying the sky. Not one of them has seen anything closely resembling a planet heading our way. If it was something we could see with the naked eye in a few months, then it would already be visible to anyone with backyard telescope. But nobody has seen anything.
People have been predicting the arrival of Planet X for at least the past ten years and have failed every single time. I am very surprised that there's anyone left who is willing to believe these people any more.
Why not trust the astronomers? They're the professionals. If Planet X really did exist they would be the first to shout it from the rooftops — it would be the discovery of a lifetime and an one time chance to study a new planet close up. Now way would they be coving this one up.
But, of course, the truth is that Planet X is a myth, a concoction by people who want to sell you books, videos, or convention tickets. 2012 will come and go without a glimpse of any new planet (in this solar system anyway) and people will simply move the date again, and again, and again, and again….
May 21st, 2008 at 6:57 pm
OK, all you doomseekers, I predict that the world will end on May 21st, 2010. Send your check for $100 C/O Kurtislee@comcast.net. That money will get you just as much satisfaction as the believe in "ancient astronauts, ancient historians, ancient astronomers, or ancient contractors". AND my prediction is just as valid. I guarantee it, to the same extent they do.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:10 pm
In fact, at this time, I would like to extend you all you believers this offer: For the mere $10 US or it's euro equivelant, I will tell you ANYTHING, yes ANYTHING you want to hear. Please enclose what it is you want to hear, with your check, and I guarantee to tell you WHATEVER YOU WANT TO HEAR. Doom and gloom, happy days, Jesus ( or whatever deity, family or friend you like) will reserect. John McCain will win the election WHATEVER YOU WANT ME TO TELL YOU I WILL, for only $10. Hell guys, it sound like you're all convinced in the pychodelic rantings of a 2,000 year dead witch doctor, so you're sure to buy my crap. And, oh yeah, John was the Walrus.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:11 pm
Hi, What do I know ? Just how little weall actually know, and that WE ARE STILL HERE.
How do you all KNOW what is or isn't going to happen ? An honest answer is that you don't know any more than I do. Its just that I am prepared to look at all possibilities on the menu, whereas some believe their preferences are fact.
What will be needs neither our belief nor our permission.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:21 pm
Dear Tacitus,
You have to admit, that any info or discovery at all (e.g. asteroid, niburu, aliens etc) that might rattle the cages of the masses and cause unruly behaviour or large scale panic, would be and has been squashed immediately by the powers that be.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Dear Kurtisle,
Saying it, wishing it or believing it, doesn't make it so.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Yeah, but if you're gullible enough to belive all the B.S. that is spread so thickly these days, then you're gullible enough to send me $10. to tell you whatever you want to hear. Hey, you will believe ANYTHING. And, believing that the "powers that be" are somehow hiding the "truth" is EXACTLY what I am talking about.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Dear Kurtisle,
No matter which country you live in, let me ask you this. Do you believe your government has been completely honest with you, telling you nothing but truth ?
May 21st, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Some Mushroom addled, loinclothed primative decides the world will end on a certain date, and you go hide in a cave. Come on guys. It's a little much. He didn't have any more clues to what will be than you or I, he just had better drugs.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:39 pm
I say they tell the truth ALL the time. No one tells the truth all the time. But to believe that Edgar Casey or Natridamus was some super being, or that a drooking coke brained guy who was mentally two hairs from a lemar had some special powers or knowledge we dont, or that and this is grand, he's understnading of realitiy is better than today's scientists, is just laughable…at best. The use of religion and it's many facits has ALWAYS been used to entrap and hold captive the gullible. And as long as you believe it you will be it's slave.
May 21st, 2008 at 7:40 pm
As Robin Williams said "Reality – what a concept"
May 21st, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Oh, to clarify – the lemar man was a religious soothasayer who was enslaving (it's hard to rip a still beating heart from the un-enslaved)the fools who believed his tripe. If they stopped believing his crap…guess who's heart would be next? So, he used some great drugs, and a skillfully carved circular stone to make the enslaved believe he was the know all, do all of past, present and future. YES it was a great calendar, but it was difficult to toss it like WE do at the end of it's useful life. THAT is the only reason it survived all these years.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:00 pm
Sounds like you got a drug problem yourself.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:01 pm
maybe people wake up, realize matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:02 pm
and btw, I stole that from the late Bill Hicks.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:04 pm
The world is like a ride in an amusement park. And when you choose to go on it, you think it's real because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round. It has thrills and chills and it's very brightly colored and it's very loud and it's fun, for a while. Some people have been on the ride for a long time and they begin to question, is this real, or is this just a ride? And other people have remembered, and they come back to us, they say, "Hey – don't worry, don't be afraid, ever, because, this is just a ride." And we kill those people.
More Bill Hicks.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:25 pm
I wish you all whatever you wish for yourselves.
This carries a warning : Be careful what you wish for (especially in anger).
For me its 4.20 am, so good night.
May 21st, 2008 at 8:34 pm
Not the end of the world but, a new time or beginning. Holy-Bible KJV, read Jeremiah Chp.6:15 + 8:12, visit and visitation time. Anyway you add it: 6+1+5=12, 8+12=20, Flip the sums around and you get 2012. Or 6+15=21, 8+1+2=11, add 2+1+1+1=5, 2012= 2+0+1+2=5. End of the 5-count Mayan calendar, 5, 2012 always equals 5 no matter how you add it! Jesus said he be coming back in about 2,000 years or just add 12=2012.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:18 pm
It is amazing to me how some people can sit there and have the courage to call others idiots and that they have dark age minds when isn't pretending to be better than somebody else a dark aged concept. this article makes some very valid points but it does not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it could not happen in 2012. Humanity has to learn to pull its head out of its butt and realize that we don't know everything. if we did there would be world peace and no diseases but alas we can't solve either of those problems fully yet. personally i didn't feel that your article made a concrete answer to the question at hand. How do we know that all of the mayans calendars were cyclical we do not. We modern day people still don't know how ancient civilizations like the Egyptians made the pyramids there are theories but thats just what they are theories not proven fact. The same as we do not know why the long count predates mayan civilization. The bottom line is that just because something makes perfect sense to you doesn't mean that you are 100% correct or incorrect it just means that it is your opinion and calling people idiots makes you look like more of an idiot.
May 21st, 2008 at 9:47 pm
Goodnight Leah. I will just say that governments are absolutely terrible about keeping secrets. Just look at the number of things leaked out from the Bush administration over the past few years. They couldn't even keep torturing a few terrorist detainees secret.
There is absolutely no way that any government could keep an approaching planet a secret. They do not control the skies, they do not control the telescopes (well, except for Hubble and a couple of others), and they do not control the astronomers who use them. Do you really believe that dozens of governments around the world are controlling hundreds, possibly thousands of astronomers and scientists to the point that none of them has leaked anything about what would be the greatest astronomical discovery in hundreds of years? It's just not reasonable to think that.
As I said before, if Planet X was approaching already, there are literally tens of thousands of backyard telescopes in America alone that would easily be able to see it on any clear evening. You simply cannot keep something like that a secret.
Sorry leah, but it is 100% guaranteed that you are wrong on this one. While there is a tiny chance that we might get impacted by an asteroid in the next few years, there is absolutely zero chance (i.e. not even 0.00000000001% chance) that a planet is heading in our direction.
This site publishes great stories about amazing (and real) wonders of the Universe on a daily basis. It really isn't necessary to go and invent stuff about imaginary planets almost crashing into Earth. Try taking pleasure in reading about the real stuff for a change!
May 21st, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Yes it does. What is not reasonable is the assumption that the Mayans knew anything about what's going to happen in 2012. Indeed, we have no evidence that the Mayan's possessed any special knowledge beyond the mundane normal stuff it takes to run a primitive urbanized culture.
Is it possible that the Mayans met some beings from the future who warned them of some unforseeable calamity that will strike in 2012? Well, I guess it is, but that begs all sorts of other reasonable questions. Why would the future beings (or spirits, gods, whatever) warn them of something that would happen long after their own civilization's demise? Not much use to them was it? Why didn't the beings drop by a couple of decades ago when we could have done something useful with the information, like establish an outpost on Mars just in case?
The only reasonable doubt people should have is about claims that the Mayans could predict the future at all. Nobody has presented a shred of evidence on this loooooong thread as to why it would be reasonable to believe they could.
May 21st, 2008 at 10:10 pm
X should be superdensty body, so very heavy but also very small. Such way it is foreshadowed in old texts on depictions,…X could be considered long time for planetoid or bigger asteroid,…..
May 21st, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Leah,
Actually I'm a practicing Buddhist. No drugs no booze, nothing but a pure sense of reality.
May 21st, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Distance of X from Sun should be around 1,4-2billions km. All bodies registered or discovered in such distance in close future are potential X (for perihelia of X in 2012),….
May 21st, 2008 at 10:19 pm
Badmedia,
Long Live Hicks! There's a dude who knew about reality.
"Life is what you do while you're waiting for something better to come along"
John Lennon
May 21st, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Hey believers…what was it that the doctor gave you to take every day that you forgot to take for the last couple days?
May 21st, 2008 at 10:24 pm
OOK OOK KACHOO
Beatles
May 21st, 2008 at 10:57 pm
2112 Hogwash.
The correct date would be October 24, 2008
Enjoy these last few months because most of you will be dying or dead by October 24th, 2008
May 21st, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Indianknows,
AAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAH
AAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
AAAAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
Damned that was good..aaaHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH. Hhehehehe thanks I needed a good laugh…
Wanna give me your stuff? You won't need it…heheHAHAHAHAHAHAHH
May 21st, 2008 at 11:04 pm
heheheheheehhehehehhh anh geez…heheh
May 21st, 2008 at 11:16 pm
Well, of course the ancient scripts will just happen to "tell us" that Planet X is too small and dense to be seen until the last minute.
Tell you what, Pavel. Care to put your money where your mouth is? I will give you odds of 100-1 that there will be a planet discovered by anyone with a perihelion closer to the Sun than Pluto by the end of 2012. And let's make the bet $1,000. So you give me $1,000 if I'm right, and I give you whopping $100,000 (which I am good for) if I am wrong. Sure thing, right? If you're so certain, then you should jump at the chance to make that bet with me.
Of course you won't, because you really haven't a clue if Planet X is real or not. How many times have you already predicted X's appearance? Two, three, four? All no shows then too, just like the next one will be.
What's wrong with the wonderful planets we already have that you people want to keep dreaming up imaginary ones? Is life too boring for you? Is the wonderful acheivement of sending daily pictures back from the surface of another planet (Mars) too mundane to hold your minute-long attention span? You guys are missing out on a whole passel of wonderful discoveries about exoplanets and supernovae and strange galaxies etc etc while you are tooling around with non-existent myths and imaginary planets.
Will you be convinced when Planet X is a no show for the nth time in the last ten years, or will you suddenly come across some other calculation that shows it wasn't really 2012 after all, but yet another date still to come? I'm guessing the latter.
May 21st, 2008 at 11:39 pm
its clearly written in old texts – Nibiru will clear its face after orbit of Jupiter, so it is circa in 2011,. (less then 600mil. km)…If dimensions of X are 100km-1000km in diameter, so its not visible till now only in the best telescopes and can be overseen till now quite easy,….
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:15 am
Well I hope nobody minds if I put my two cents worth in. I believe in optimism, not pessimism. I believe that God built the earth and I believe that God built the earth to last. I think the earth will be around for a long, long, long time to come. Now of course recently there have been cyclones and earthquakes and many have died and many are homeless. For many of us, our number will come up tomorrow, forget about 2012!
I feel that it is important to be good to eachother, and good for eachother, each day, regardless of the number of days any one of us have left. An earthquake, a plane crashing into my apartment or even a heart attack could take me at any moment, I'm not going to worry about 2012. But every day, I'll be trying to live my life right . I mean what would be the best any of us could do anyway? Maybe 120 years? I watched 1960 roll by, 1961 roll by, 1962 roll by and so on and so forth. Someone will be here to watch 3060, 3061, 3062 roll by, I'm certain of it. there probably wont be any oil then, but the people will probably have some other means of transportation because necessity is always the mother of invention. People rolled through the 1400s, the 1600s the 1800s and they'll roll through the 3000s too, mark my words. Best a human being can do is exercise, eat right and get enough sleep to remain healthy and for a long, long time. then onto the golden streets of heaven to be with Jesus!
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:54 am
WRONG.
True for the part where it will not be the end of the world, however a transition period of some kind will certainly occur. Either a higher level of dimensional reality or some form of DNA change, you will soon learn.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:08 am
to Wesley
"To Ed Minchau:
Thanks for the Douglas Adams quote! 42!"
ed said 6 times 9 = 42.. i believe its 6 times 7….
first.
second, you can disprove that its not going to end just by analyzing the calendar. I rather wait and see.
third, god just like science has no proof.
thus, you can choose what you believe. However, god uses alot less rationale and alot more blind faith.. at least evolution is somewhat consistent.
fourth, don't panic.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:42 am
DMT.
2012 is very, very real.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:15 am
http://www.H2onE2.com Glacial Respiration, Conceptual Ring of Ice, The End of Linear Western Religion
A Geological Exploration of an E2 Earthen Planet And the H2 Human Species
Author: B Billy Marse, Professional Geologist
Brief Description:
http://www.H2onE2.com is an exploration of the universe, geology, climate, biology, humans, psychology, folklore and ancient structures to uncover the beginning and disclose the end of linear western religion. The true DaVinci Code behind the bible is not a supreme spiritual power but a scientific record of climate change described as Glacial Respiration. The Greek philosophers originated the practice of communicating a hidden idea or message in the short story format, as a metaphor. In the bible, metaphors conceal historic climate change within the fanciful stories. The theory of Glacial Respiration explains the myth behind the Holy Grail, structures such as the Great Pyramids, Stonehenge, Easter Island and is the knowledge that was collected in the Jewish Ark of the Covenant.
The environmental changes of Glacial Respiration determine all biological evolution and can explain why higher forms of intelligent humans developed. Further, Glacial Respiration releases the secret hidden by the Knights Templars, Masonic Order and all religions. Uncovers an advanced Blue-Blooded semi-industrial Atlantian Civilization that was built and destroyed many times over for the last million years. The book ends with an explanation of how linear western religion will be physically ended and describes the construction of the doomsday device capable of fulfilling its own self defining prophesy, “Revelationsâ€. H2onE2 is a mind-expanding experience that stimulates the soul, instinct, intellect and is an almanac to the past, present and future of humanity. Rise, awaken and evolve into H3 human consciousness.
The discovery:
As a Professional Geologist, I attempted to link the Dust Bowl/Great Depression to a pre-glacial condition or mechanism and ended up writing the book H2onE2. I felt that there was a strong connection between the Dust Bowl and transition back into Glacial Winter. I did notice that my professors scientifically crumbled every time I mentioned the relationship. I could not go back in time or locate indisputable proof. The proof came from understanding all educational disciplines including history and theology. I soon discovered that all religious text both eastern and western continually described significant climate change conditions relating to Glacial Respiration. For years I fought off mixing science and religion until I discovered that the origins of all religions were founded or created to help humans psychologically survive the harsh earthen environment. Without reason I soon accepted that the world's complicated religions were the same. This came true and I continued to write and discover. Everything came into place as though I was unlocking a 10,000-year-old puzzle. I also realized this puzzle was opened before I discovered it, by someone else, some other group. If so, further understanding of this knowledge might be extracted from significant historical events. Lastly, this is the vital information needed to make future predictions.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:42 am
"Some of the most popular space-based threats to the Earth and mankind focus on meteorite impacts, black holes, Gamma Ray Bursts from nearby galaxies, a rapid ice age and a polar (magnetic) shift. There is so much evidence against these things happening in 2012"
read this:
NASA scientists who monitor the Sun say that our star's awesome magnetic field is flipping — a sure sign that solar maximum is here.
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast15feb_1.htm
"But the fact remains, the Mayan Doomsday Prophecy is purely based on a calendar which we believe hasn't been designed to calculate dates beyond 2012. Mayan"
your own answer:
"why is 2012 so important? Well, the Mayan calendar stops at the end of the year 2012"
Your article is pointless.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:47 am
Dear Tacitus,
Forgive me, my posts are all "What Ifs" not my personal opinions or beliefs. As to Niburu, I'll believe it when I see it for myself.
Sorry if I annoyed you or anyone else.
Dear Kurtisle,
Appologies, its just that to attack other's beliefs is to deprive them of freedom of thought and respect. A lack of respect is not the Buddist way.
Here is a What if, considering the Mayans thought there were so many choices after 2012. What if they stopped writting the calendar because they left it upto the people of today to start the next long count for ourselves. I for one would not have a use as yet for a calendar that will not be valid for thousands of years.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:54 am
tacitus…
I'm certainly happy to see that your ignorance of science is only superseded by your arrogance.
I work in the astrophysics division in Los Alamos…from what we can tell, there are subtle changes in the gravitational fluxes in certain areas of the solar system that indicate another body of some size hovering on the outer (currently) areas of Pluto. (which is not, currently, considered a planet) There are six planetary moons that are larger than Pluto.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:02 am
Hey Pavel, you didn't say if you wanted to take my bet. You seem 100% certain that Planet X is out there about to be discovered, so what's the problem?
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:10 am
I don't get some of this….
What is aligned with the center of the universe? Isn't the miky way galaxy (ours) a spiral galaxy? Meaning, we are on arm of that spiral, meaning – we are always on the same plane as the center of the galaxy? You are saying that due to propagation in the Y-axis that on 12/21/12 the planet earth will be at 0,0 with the center of our galaxy?
What is the center? Which point? Huh? How silly is that?
Since we are on edge with the galaxy – imagine looking at a dinner plate from the outside edge in. Can you describe the center? How thick is the galaxy? When is 0,0 ? To what part of the very thick center are we to align with?
There have been 121 extra-solar system planets found. That means that of the billion billion billion stars, we have found only 121 with measurable planets. And we have been at this for only 10 years. Man, in the next 10, we will probably find 400 or so extra-solar system planets.
This date conundrum is rubbish. Just baffles me that people cling to this irrational stuff. Still.. even now as they type on their computers and use the internet – both born of hard science and hard labor – they cling to God making it all. Just baffling to me.
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:07 am
I would just like to say thank you to everone including the writer even though it appeared to be a shallow article, but i got the point. The fact that the responses were intelligent and informative is the main reason though. I really was interested in this topic when i saw the article title and now I am even more. If anyone can point me in the right direction to some good additional information on the mayan's. Thanks in advance.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:01 am
First off those of you who call people who believe in this stuff crazy, who are you to judge? The Mayans never stated that it was the end of the world, but rather the end of a cycle, where earth enters its golden age.
Secondly, at that same time around 2012, earth and our solar system will be aligned with galactic center completing its approximate 25,765 year processional cycle. The Mayans knew this. How is another question entirely.
Thirdly, no written records exist of what happens when this cycle ends and a new one begins. The bible refers to this transition as entering the age of aquarious which "God" is supposed to return.
Before you call someone crazy or say its BS, research, find your own answers. Personally I don't believe it is doomsday, mainstream media likes to BS you and create false impressions/opinions in your mind.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:11 am
leah.
But to have a since of humor about it is the Buddhist way. We see funny where funny exists. The whole universe is a cosmic joke, the key is to laugh and not take it too seriously. It's the sound of one hand clapping.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:21 am
Ohh Drew, Drew, Drew,
We are ALWAYS in alignment with the galactic center. We are located on a sprial arm about 2/3 of the way from the center. As a spiral, we rotate about a common center. Further, we are not in the same location as we were 25,765 years aog. Besides being on circular orbit, our solar system has a wobble in it's orbit. We willl NEVER be at the same place we were at any time in the past.
So, keep your sanctimonious BS to yourself. an alignment with th galactic center will be no more spectacular than a trip to Mal-Mart. And, even if it was, you and the loinclothed soothsayer in the past have NO idea what might happen, so to say OOOGY BOOGY will occurr is pure speculation…and that sir translates to opinion and that is not science.
Oh, and I worked for 14 years at the Lab at Livermore. I joke but I am not ignorant as some here.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:33 am
I work in the astrophysics division in Los Alamos…from what we can tell, there are subtle changes in the gravitational fluxes in certain areas of the solar system that indicate another body of some size hovering on the outer (currently) areas of Pluto. (which is not, currently, considered a planet) There are six planetary moons that are larger than Pluto.
Pray do tell exactly what I am supposed to be ignorant of?
Give me the name of one mainstream astronomer (i.e. someone who actually works as an astronomer for a living) who believes that Planet X is more than a figment of someone's deranged imagination. Remember, this is not just a tiny ice moon orbiting way out in the Kuiper Belt, it's supposed to be a planet-sized object (i.e. much bigger than Pluto) which is going to wander into the inner solar system some time in the next few years. Such an entity doesn't exist.
Sure, it is quite possible there may be another planet out on the very edge of the solar system waiting to be discovered, but that's a very different kettle of fish to the imaginary Nibiru. In any case, as I understand it, these "fluctuations" are not large enough to sustain the possibility of a large planet in the outer solar system unless it is a long long way out there — probably over twice as far as Neptune orbits. If that's what those people are calling Nibiru, then they will be sorely disappointed when it is eventually discovered since it will be a big ball of ice that will never venture anywhere near Earth.
BTW: Is it arrogance to simply point out that beliefs like Mayans predicting the end of the world in 2012 or Planet X are unfounded theories without a shred of evidence to back them up? You don't need an astrophysics degree to see that these theories are just plain silly. All you need is to do a bit or reading and have an ounce or two of common sense.
My friends would laugh if read all these accusations of arrogance. I have my share of character flaws, no doubt, but arrogance has never been one of them.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:40 am
Dear Kurtisle,
I understand now. My earlier post agrees with you, we might at best only have experiences similar (in some ways) to the experiences of the Mayans. If our orbit around the galaxy takes 226 million years, we will definately not be in the same location on our orbital path as in the times of the Mayans, Egyptians etc.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:44 am
With toungue in cheek, cos I gotta get out somestimes….I'm off to see the new Indiana Jones film….what can I tell you…love Spielberg and Ford's films.
Back later.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:01 am
In reality, what the Mayan symbol system refers to is not a termination but a transformation. So right there this little piece of "scientific" fluff is intellectually deficient right off the top.
And could it just be that a people who were capable enough to make a calendar so precise that Western minds didn't match them for millenia could possibly, just perhaps, have some insight into a recurring event that modern way of thinking barely a few centuries old might have missed or not yet been exposed to? Naw, we know everything. Except ourselves.
The arrogance and conceit of the self-satisfied materialist mind never ceases to amaze me. And most of these people argue from a Newtonian/Cartesian basis, too, whose relative perspective has noticeable flaws after 1905.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:29 pm
alright. thank you. i needed that kind of reassurance. alot of this makes sense. It's true i don't know alot about this, but Ian wrote so much that just makes too much sense about everything. so i'm chill now
thankss.
May 22nd, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Is it that everyone who visits this site is a fundamental christian or what? I really do not understand how all these comments can be so idiotic. To be skeptic of all things until they are proven is a good quality. But to throw out every idea that seems "absurd" based upon this proves you are the idiot, not those who look into the matter in an attempt to gain knowledge.
Seriously take a second and reflect upon yourself, definetely if you have made a comment calling 2012 believers or researchers idiots. I am glad those "idiots" do more work than you and actually attempt to advance our society and knowledge. If you had told a man in the 18th century about a box that could show moving pictures of a man across the globe, he would think you an idiot. And yet look at the wonders we have today.
To be skeptical is to acknowledge something neither proved or disproved could be wrong. To be ignorant is to say something neither proved or disproved MUST be wrong. Any good scientist and researcher is a skeptic. It is those that sit back in an armchair and dictate how the world is while omitting facts or possibilities contrary to their ideas that are the ignorants.
May 22nd, 2008 at 1:50 pm
tacitus
My friends would laugh if read all these accusations of arrogance. I have my share of character flaws, no doubt, but arrogance has never been one of them.
Your response lends credence my point.
It's your way… or the highway.
You are the only one that's right. Everyone else is wrong…
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:06 pm
I recommend this site for more info on this subject~
http://www.lawoftime.org/home.html
~foundation for the LAW OF TIME
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:04 pm
I have to agree this article is poorly researched and basically pointless.
I read the original article by the NASA researcher who wrote the computer program that determined when the Mayan calander would end. It ends at the moment of the winter solstice when the sun exactly fills the gap in the Milky Way. This is the astronomical event which happens once every 26,000 years and which actually defines the beginning of the precession of the equinoxes.
Her conclusion: The Mayan calander was explicitly created for measuring large periods of time on an astronomical scale and is the most practical and acurate means of measuring recurring astonomical events.
As for prophesy, it isn't all that hard. If you assume people will continue to make the same mistakes and tell the same lies, you'll be right 95% of the time.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Vic, you touch on an important point, but your perspective is a little skewed. Yes, it's very important to be open minded (i.e. able to be swayed either way) but there are limits.
For example, I am extremely open to the possibility of intelligent life existing on other planets somewhere out there in the Universe. I am also open to the possibility that there isn't, although that doesn't seem very likely. Most importantly, there is evidence to support both points of view, so it is reasonable to keep an open mind on the subject.
On the other hand, take the idea that the Mayans knew that a planetwide disaster will strike the Earth in 2012 and so designed their calendar to "run out" on that date. It's an interesting theory, but it flies in the face of everything we know about the Mayans, about calendars, about what's happening to the Earth, the Sun, the solar system, etc etc.
First there is no know mechanism for seeing into the future. People can claim they had mystical powers all they want but there is no evidence that they exist, even today. Time and again, when tested scientifically, nobody has been able to predict the future in that way. Second, claims of strange celestial alignments, exceptional sun spot activity, the arrival of rogue planets are all without any foundation in fact. People take the smallest thing (like a report that sunspot activity might be higher next cycle) and they blow it up out of all proportion. Suddenly solar outbursts are just about to destroy all life on Earth! It's sheer nonsense. Again, there is no evidence anywhere that anything untoward below our feet or in the skies is about to happen (except for the usual earthquakes, tsunami, volcanos, etc).
Now, could someone who believes in this stuff turn out to be right? Could there be a solar flare unlike anything we have seen in thousands of years, or could there be a rogue planet whizzing in from outside the solar system on a collision course with Earth? Sure, it's possible. But then, it's possible I will meet a billionaire 20-year-old supermodel who wants to marry a 44 year-old English computer programmer tomorrow. It's possible, but it's so unlikely that really it's not worth being open minded about it since it's almost certainly never going to happen.
If you went around being open minded about everything that is even remotely possible, then you would never make up your mind about anything. This goes doubly-so for science. Should scientists invest decades of time and billions of dollars researching the Face on Mars (i.e. send a manned mission there) on the offchance that it really is an alien artifact even though there is no evidence that it's anything but an eroded mesa? No, of course not. That would be a terrible waste of resources and taxpayer's money. If ever compelling evidence of alien life on Mars did come up then they would be justified in spending that cash, but until then there is no reason not to be skeptical to the point of ignoring that possibility and getting on with a more fruitful line of research.
So, in the end, it's all about keeping a sense of proportion. Yes, be open minded about things that have a good chance of being true, but as for the extremely unlikely, like the end of the world coming in 2012. Well, it's just not a fruitful use of time worrying about it. There's about a 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance of that happening and when you get to odds that low, it might as well be impossible.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:06 pm
As for prophesy, it isn't all that hard. If you assume people will continue to make the same mistakes and tell the same lies, you'll be right 95% of the time.
Then isn't it weird that self-proclaimed prophets seem to have a success rate of well below 50%, and even lower as they get more specific about their predictions? That should tell you something, right there.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:12 pm
All who are not here to consider, I wonder what you are here for? Is it an egotistically driven motive to try to make others look bad, and you good? Assumption reigns supreme for those who guage the intelligence of another.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:25 pm
In relation to the galaxy, what they're trying to say is that our sun and the earth will cross the galactic plane in 2012, is that correct?
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:30 pm
There is good and bad in both science and prophesy. What you look for is what you will find. Most beliefs are preconceived and honest investigation and interpretation to the full extent is most often lacking for want of someone with true intent.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Enjoyed Indiana Jones. A good "What If" re the crystal skulls.
Greetings to my fellow Englishman Tacitus. Me too, in Wiltshire.
It has been proposed that we will be passing through a region of space exposing Earth to additional frequencies unknown to us as yet. It is feasible that these frequencies might programme some of what is known as Junk DNA (not really Junk, just not prgrammed yet).
Additional and/or improved physical and mental abilities would have an impact on people's spirituality/attitude, which in turn would change behaviour and our world.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Dear Ron,
I'm here because many like myself have put in a lot of research, and I wish to read other people's findings….maybe share a couple of my own.
May 22nd, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Hi Leah,
Those are the interesting posts, ones like yours. I believe there is a lot to consider about the near future and what may happen.
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Hey guys,
I agree with some of you, specifically those who appear to have some degree of knowledge of the mayans.
Now… the major thing you guys are not understanding is the analogy is not "Take my advise and listen to me about 2012" that foolish. Let me clarify some more facts..
1.)Mayan culture is still largely around today; approx 20 million living Maya. While the Spanish did force conversion, like what you see in history, they hid much of their knowledge inside their version of Christianity.
2.)Mayan religion has been completely mis-interpreted by most comments. As stated in my earlier post; Time and Religion are really one in the same according to the Maya. The very BASIS of the Mayan religion is coming up with RATIONAL explanations for time, which for them was in finding new cycles and understanding better cycles that had already been found.
3.)It is true that we hit the galactic plane in 2012.
I am NOT saying anything is going to happen on 2012, but people need to accept that this is not psuedo science, after all, why would it be? Your talking about a CULTURE not a single person who is obsessive about the relations of mathematics to reality. Its just as valid of science as saying the next lunar eclipse is going to be 12/21/2010, except the mayan knew all this long before anyone else, and more (the galactic plane).
4.)I think people are simply not doing their research on the number of calendars the Mayan use, and in SOME cases the insanely large time periods they have used. (ie – http://www.authenticmaya.com/calendar.htm) Please do not stop here, read ABOUT their religion and the unbelievable number of cycles the shamen combined; I am not making this stuff up……
5.)People in the comments have made the mistake several times of interpreting something that was AZTEC as MAYAN. I specifically am saying this in refrence to Quetzalcoatl.
6.)Just like how I can't discredit(and never would) someones belief in Christianity, buddism, or hinduism or any other major world religion, how can people be so fast to discount a religion thats STILL followed by millions of people? This is simply amazing to me, because in terms of mathematics, this culture had the most in depth understanding of any known culture pre-1500. It is also interesting that the Mayan calendar has created interest from people in fields besides archeologists. The fact that 2012 we DO hit the galactic plane should interest those who have a apt for physics, chemistry, mathematics, astronomy, cosmology.
Please do more research on your own! I would say in this field, websites seem to have a massive lack of information and confusion regarding the religion/culture.
Thanks again
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:14 pm
Dear Panthar,
Could you please for my benefit define "Galactic Plane".
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:26 pm
Leah,
The intersection of the galactic plane is I believe a 26,000 yr cycle as stated in above posts. I am not a astronomy expert, but; galaxys are planar, in other words, they exist as essentially a plane in open space. Now our sun basically has its own little 'orbit' for lack of a better word, going up and down relative to the galactic plane. Sooo every 26,000 years, we will be in alignment with the center of the galaxy.
Hope that helps!
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:36 pm
Dear Panthar,
Thanks, just wanted to be sure we're on the same page. Sooo many terms for the same thing. Everyone would do well to pay attention to that one fact…as fact it is. It was back in 1988 when I was 30, that a friend at the UN told me to do my diligence re the 26,000 cycle and Galactic Plane. He did say "may you live in interesting times" (chinese context).
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:38 pm
I'm interested in the best of both, science and prophesy. The bible has a record of accuracy and so do certain well known psychics. In the text, certain bible predictions have come to pass. (I don't now refer to the "bible code". I think the code is the result of participation of the readers throughout time as they read, to play a part in the written text, beyond the apparent linear nature of time, cause and effect from a point of view being simultaneous. The code may or may not work effectively as a prophetic tool, but express the nature of human spirituality in time.) Perhaps psychics and the bible follow one another, or perhaps there is something to what they have to say about the near future. The work of Dr. Snow was really interesting. He progessed hundreds of people forward in time under hypnosis. None knew each other or were related and they lived in different parts of the country. All refered to major earth changes during our time period, a shift of the poles, raising and lowering of large land masses and a large reduction in population. Perhaps it's mass hysteria at an unconscious level, or perhaps not.
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:39 pm
"Then isn't it weird that self-proclaimed prophets seem to have a success rate of well below 50%, and even lower as they get more specific about their predictions? That should tell you something, right there."
Weird is people who are not prophets thinking they are smarter than people who are prophets.
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Dear Ron,
We do indeed have a plague of locusts on 3 continents, and rivers turned terra cotta red in India. Remind me if you wish, of the full list of plagues the bible predicts.
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:50 pm
Patient zero is very self descriptive.
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Hi Patient zero,
you react to an entire group of unrelated people, good and bad, called psychics–without regard to their record. If you are interested, read the biography of Edgar Cayce.
May 22nd, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Dear Leah,
I guess there must be a website that lists all bible prophesies and those that have come to pass. That would be interesting. I'll look.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Dear Ron,
In addition, have found the plagues, flies, frogs, darkness, river turned to blood, locusts, death of 1st born child, rained fire and hail.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Dear Leah,
I don't know what is worse, plagues or floods and earthquakes.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:11 pm
I guess the major point I was trying to make is, we are adapted to the seperation of religion and science. This clearly makes people dismissive of the reality that there was cultures that took the exact same 'rational' approach to reality in religion. The cycles are just that; their science, no more, no less. How meaningful is that next solar eclipse to our lives in reality? I speak nothing about what is going to happen, if anything, that was not my goal of posting here.
I would argue argue Christianity is very rational in its foundations as well. Mayan living today find no conflict between their old idea's and new christian ideas. A little historical note here, generally cultures when taken over, of course are forced to convert generally, BUT the conquered people also feel that their god let them down, so they accept the conquerors god because that god to them is 'more powerful'. I am sure some people will disagree with me on that interpretation of history, thats ONLY my opinion.
I probably just opened up a whole can of worms,
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Mosquitoes.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:16 pm
Mosquitoes are the worst.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:20 pm
Dear Leah,
I don't mean to joke, sorry.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Dear Ron,
Both are undesirable, but we have to face up to the truth that we already have plagues, cancer (lost my father and husband of 56 to cancer) aids etc. Earthquakes on a daily basis in varying strengths (I track in real time), likewise floods.
I have had experience of 1 earthquake, 1 hurricane, and two major sewerage floods and was the only survivor of the meningitis outbreak that came from the sewerage.
All these things and more, have made me strong, and taught me to keep an open mind and to research and learn.
I get up, hope for the best, keep all possibilities in mind, and deal with what comes.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:30 pm
I think it's true, sometimes science is less rational and objective than some religion, science becoming a religion in itself without admitting it. At some point science must admit objectivity is impossible without accepting possibilities it cannot prove within its own subset of reality. Quantum physics proves this, but most scientists seem to ignore its implications.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:35 pm
Dear Leah,
It's encouraging to read about your outlook after what you have experienced.
May 22nd, 2008 at 6:52 pm
Dear Ron,
I wrote the previous post as proof of life after adversity. So many people are fearful/concerned about 2012 when in all probability we will have a higher concentration of climate and geological activity to contend with, plus the effects (unknown now…maybe known closer to 2012).
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:03 pm
sorry, meant "plus the effects of the Galactic plane in 2012"
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:04 pm
Dear Leah,
I have a feeling too that it may be something less than the more dire predictions, but still very traumatic and some events spread over several years time.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Dear Ian,
I'm actually kinda freaked out about the whole thing. However, you're skepticism is refreshing. My question is this: have you ever read the work of Dan Eden from viewzone? it can be found at http://www.viewzone.com/endtime.html and it's really freaky. His theory is that Dec. 12, 2012 is when the poles will shift, coinciding with an increase in solar activity as well as the planets aligning and the passing through the Galactic equator. However, this might all just be talk. Have you got any thoughts.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Events leading upto a peak, then tailing off. Peaks and toughs. The effects of lining up/ galactic plane etc may not be obvious for some time after Dec 2012.
A lot of humans unlike animals are not good at spoting subtle changes, they need hollywood glitz or fireworks before they notice.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Dear Jim,
Pole shift has and will happen again. Sorry to muscle in, but instead of being freaked, read up on pole shift. If you know the signs and a pole shift occurs within your lifetime, you will know what to do.
Naturally as I do, you could keep track on geological websites from time to time, as to whats going on, on planet earth.
May 22nd, 2008 at 7:43 pm
It is fascinating that such an alignment of the planets would occur at the time when they pass through the galactic plane. I wonder if that occurs at each passage every 13000 years. I assume the sun and planets pass through the plane twice during the 26000 year cycle.
Cayce said the final destruction of Atlantis occured about 13000 years ago.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Has anyone detected pre-Mormons among the Mayan vunderkids?
This has been a fruitful discussion!
Now back to reality, the business of science.
I remember someone exclaiming that something was bigger than a gasoline atom and … will blow up the world or universe orf something.
No, back to science!
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:17 pm
what i dont get is that why are people saying that the earth's axis will be so tilted that we're going to fall from the axis.
i dont get how that's even possible and why people are talking about it now. they first were talking about the end of the world, then they talk about that the mayans meant that a new age of enlightment was going to happen, and now people are saying that if we dont get the 13 crystals before dec. 21 2012 then earth is going to fall from its axis.
can somebody please help me to understand, i mean i dont really believe in none of this stuff because the scientists never mentioned that the earth is falling from its axis, but please can somebody help me to understand because right now im really confused and worried.
i mean all the sites ive been to even yahoo, the scientists said that nothing's going to happen, and its going to be another normal day, but everybody's saying different things, and its starting to freak me out. and im only 17 years old thats why im really freaking out because this is the first time in my life that im worrying about a superstition.
even john major jenkins said nothing's going to happen its just going to be a new age of enlightment, and he's been studying the mayans all his life, so i believe him a little, but i appreciate it if anybody could help me to understand so anybody like the person who made this article Ian, or that guy that keeps typing things and arguing, even tho his is more understandable and more scientific, please help me to understand.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:29 pm
Dear Eric,
Do you mind me asking which continent or country you are living in ? I am in England.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:29 pm
i live in america
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:37 pm
Dear Eric,
Most of the people writing here have done a lot of research about 2012, but only the lining up with the Galactic Plane is factual. Everything else is opinion, ideas and possibilites, not facts. Don't be freaked.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:38 pm
dear leah,
but what does aligning with the galactic plane actually do to earth? will it be really bad for us?
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:45 pm
Dear Eric,
None of us knows if it will be good or bad for us. Maybe Astronomers will have more information as we get closer to 2012.
We don't know what the effect of the Galactic Plane will be…..but it could just as equally be GOOD. My daughter, 21 is not afraid, because she knows that fear will not change whatever happens…or does not happen in 2012 or even now.
May 22nd, 2008 at 8:58 pm
My hopes,wishes and prayers are that 2012 brings enlightenment to the human race. This amazingly beautiful golf ball in space that we have the privilage to call our home, could sure do with an enlightened human race that stops damaging Earth and all the other life forms that we share it with
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:07 pm
i agree with that. well its just that i want to stop thinking about it because i kno that wut people are saying about 2012 are not real, and there's going to be no doomsday, but i cant get it off my mind.
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:16 pm
Dear Eric,
Best thing you can do is get on with life, keep in touch with this subject if you want occasionally. I can't get it off my mind either, but it is only one of many thousands of things I think about and research.
We cannot stop planet earth on her travels, but we can try to understand her better as each day passes. I sleep well, and don't worry….so should you.
May 22nd, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Good night.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:07 pm
Science as an ideal is merely escape when nonsense is in the eye of the beholder.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:22 pm
If it doesn't have any meaning, then we're in agreement. And you say nonsense, and I say of course. Far be it from me to tread upon your label, preformed thought exists free from any requirement but fashion.
May 22nd, 2008 at 11:21 pm
I BET BY 2011 ALOT OF PEOPLE ARE GOING TO GO TO CHURCH SO THEY CAN BE SAVED AND THEIR SOULS CAN BE SPARED. now thats a fact.
by Mik,
May 23rd, 2008 at 3:54 am
What a shame. I was planning to leave my job & family, hike round Europe the end my remaining day in a Baccanailian (sic) orgy of women, illicit pharmaceuticals & anti-social behaviour.
Now I'll have to sort out our mortgage when our fixed-rate deal comes to an end.
And get the lawn cut.
Damn.
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:56 am
It wont end.. History channel are losers. Its a hoax.
A mayan calendar ends.. oh no
I can't wait till december 22 2012. just to rub it in those apocalyptic freaks faces
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:07 am
how much were you paid and by whom to try and debunk the inevitable???? there are none so blind as those who will not see…i am not saying a cataclysmic event will happen exactly in 2012, but please explain away for the the approach of planet X entering our solar system–on its 3600 year eliptical orbit–images already caught by the multi-million dollar telescope our government paid for and build in antarctica specifically to watch its approach…something bad is going to happen to planet earth as this planet orbits through our solar system…make all the jokes you want…you are all fools if you can't help but wonder why no one is mentioning this or warning us of its approach…watch the southern hemisphere, my friends…in a few years, we will have three suns…the only ones who will survive this are the ones that already know about it and have privy to all the bunkers built underground to protect them…IE. our government officials only–and the ones they paid to make light of such a serious situation…you can bet it won't be any of us…thanks for trying to insult the intelligence of those who have a genuine concern for this planet we all call home…
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:07 am
I never heard about planet X before. It sounds intriguing regardless of what anyone thinks (including people who post merely to try and make others look silly. They are the ones who are full of themselves). It reminds me of an old movie called When Worlds Collide. I always liked that movie since seeing it as a kid. It struck something very deepseated inside about past events that we're not aware of.
I think the imagination leads to greater truth than pointing fingers for no purpose but to make themselves look and feel better. I don't think there is insistence here about what will happen. Some insist that nothing will happen and they are stupid to study and consider.
I realize I shouldn't involve myself in arguing with idiots, but it's somewhat enjoyable.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:14 am
Dear Becky,
when you speak of 3 suns, do you mean metaphorically in some way?
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:55 am
Hi Ron,
Becky is right re a planet being tracked…3 suns I don't know about. NASA is tracking a planet too…same one.
Re the deep underground (some plushed out like the Ritz) bases, approx 50 worldwide, which are for the CHOSEN ONES only….their real all right. Keep human kind to 500 million it was written (and carved into stone in recent times, Tennessee I think.
Monsanto poisons the earth and water ways with pesticides and false fertilisers, gives us GM seeds to sow. And thats only one slice of the whole cake that we are consuming daily. Seed vaults and life form genetic vaults, and only they have access.
All just a tip of the iceberg. Back later.
May 23rd, 2008 at 11:56 am
Sorry about spelling…being pressurised to get going.
May 23rd, 2008 at 6:01 pm
There is a great possibility that the Cherokee are right in that there is going to be a 3rd great shaking, (meaning war sometime). The powers that be certainly seem hell bent on war. Under those conditions they would of coarse take to their underground bunkers.
2012, planet X, war or aliens coming, we all got to get there first…then we'll deal with it.
May 23rd, 2008 at 6:02 pm
rofl apperently it was 6/6/06 now 6 years later what next? 2018 ftw? 2024???????? 2030???????
May 23rd, 2008 at 6:10 pm
2036 John, Apophis.
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:12 pm
Please, don't quote Karl Kruszelnicki. He is not a real scientist. He is an entertainer, and his methods although all glittery and popular are about as far from science as Pauline Hanson's neo-eugenics theories. I do not know why the science-tainment industry holds this hack in such high esteem.
Your article however was very good. But if you want credibilty (apart from using your obviously open and critical mind and communicating clearly) please stay the hell away Quackie Karl the Doctor!!!
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:20 pm
your a fool, im sorry but your a damn fool. you think your smarter than an advance race that could make a calender run tens of thousands years in the past then stop for no good reason like you say on 2012. o ok lets see just how much sense that makes. You shouldn't be a doctor cause apparently your dumber than a box of rocks. Thank you and have a good 4 years you fool! yours truly Scott
May 23rd, 2008 at 8:43 pm
Dear John,
666 inverted is 999 the hallmark of 24 carat gold = money, route of all evil (it has been written) , greed, and has become a very popular and widespread "religion". The mark of the devil on the hand or forehead might be a bank account number.
We digress, 2012 could be relevant due to critical mass re world financial affairs, asside from any other events.
May 23rd, 2008 at 10:21 pm
wow this got taken over, the ones who believe this(the EOTW) get defensive when someone doesnt have an "open mind" to the minute possibility of everyone being wiped off the earth. but yet they arent keeping an open mind to the probability of it not happening. kind of hypocritical if you ask me. so basically let me get this "planet x" is supposed to come on a fly by(i thought it was 2003 it was going to), world war III is going to be happening, hurricanes, earthquakes, disease, collapse of society, etc, all in one year? how? oh and by the way apophis its not big enough to cause mass extinction but it would leave a hell of crater or tsunami if it did hit.
May 24th, 2008 at 5:34 am
It's funny.. I'm not a believer in the 2012 doomsday theory, but I always have a good laugh at those that are opposed to it saying it's "silly and impossible" to believe in something like that.. Yet those very same people will sit and tell you all about God and Jesus.
May 24th, 2008 at 7:33 am
I stress again that throughout the ages WE ARE STILL HERE. I keep an open mind on 2012 as with everything else and as yet have voiced no opinions just WHAT IF.
May 24th, 2008 at 9:31 am
According to Cayce, there was a polar shift approximately 13000 years ago. Mammoth carcus are found in arctic Siberia with undigested tropical vegetation in the stomach. Apparently some northern lands once had a more southern latiitude, which also explains evidence of an "ice age". According to him another major Earth change is in the works and part of a regular cycle. Yes, some evidence is there if you look for it.
May 24th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Pole shift, and magnetic pole shift are different, the latter being a reversal south/negative now becomes possitive and north/possitive now becomes negative.
Pole shift is the swivelling of the floating earth's crust around the iron core. The effects are drastic, the worst of which are short lived.
These are natural, re-occuring and unavoidable events. To learn about pole shift is to be able to better cope with it should it happen within your lifetime. To deny the possibility, is to be less able.
May 25th, 2008 at 6:40 am
Google "galactic alignment".. what a coincidence eh?
May 25th, 2008 at 7:31 am
I am curious to know if they (magnetic and rotational polar shifts) are related. I would guess that they are, having to do with the circulation of the mantle underneath the crust and the movement of the continental plates. It's funny that scientists never consider the possibility, which would explain temperature extremes of the past. I don't think snowpack would ever survive in latitudes of 40's to create glaciers at low altitudes with the summer sun high overhead. I would consider a major reduction of the sun's output at times in the past, but I haven't heard anyone find similar fluctuations apparent among any of many thousands of stars each whose magnitude and spectrum is recorded. Why isn't common sense more prevalent among scientists? I guess they are suffering from "Global Warming". But now they may get relief since it has unexpectably taken a break for 10 or 15 years. In other words, they don't know what will happen. Carbon is the basic building block of life and its reactivity makes life possible. It instantly combines and the relatively small amount produced by man is readily absorbed by water and plant life. Temperature dictates the percentage of CO2 that remains in the atmosphere and this is proven by ice cores from the antarctic which show increases in mean temperatures during the past 2000 years closely followed by increases in the CO2 level, not the other way around.
Sorry leah, I just dislike the senselessness of the misuse of science. I feel that many scientists who support global warming hysteria have a better understanding, but have an agenda to try and reduce man's "impact" upon the earth. I wish they would have a better agenda, such as to reduce the thousands of tons of herbicides and pesticides used in agriculture. I think the long term use of these has a heavy impact upon life. It has been shown that crops can be very effectively grown without heavy use of chemicals. Yet we ban DDT which was relatively benign and extremely effective at eradicating mosquitoes. Millions have needlessly died as a result from malaria. Companies have developed much more expensive and less effective chemicals in place of DDT. They are longer lived and more damaging to plant and animal life. However no one now bans these more dangerous chemicals.
May 25th, 2008 at 8:55 am
Leah,
I mean sorry I don't stay on subject.
May 25th, 2008 at 10:01 am
Dear Ron,
You so right, like I said Monsanto and other companies like it as systematically poisoning earth, Air and water. It is relevant to 2012, for those who can see it.
Just spent 5 hours weeding by hand, because I refuse to poison weeds, or anything else for that matter.
May 25th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Dear Leah,
Monsanto makes Nutrasweet and I'm sure you've heard about the effects of aspartame when a lot is used by people drinking too much diet soda. I think they were also responsible for having a natural sweetener called stevia banned from use as a sweetener. It's available as a supplement and I've used it. In Japan they use it in their diet sodas.
May 25th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
I should say banned from sale as a sweetener.
May 25th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Ahhhh…Stevia, like so many of nature's miracles, its much more than just a sweetener. My cupboards are full of nature's miracles. One reason why Japan has very low incidence of cancer. Only since they've consumed western diet has cancer become a health problem in Japan. One island consumes brown seaweed in quantity, and there are still no incidences of cancer.
May 25th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Laminaria Japonica/kombu rich in U-Fucoidan, kills cancer cells.
May 25th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
If I stayed in one place, maybe I would eat a little healthier. I'm a truck driver.
May 25th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
3 times I've tried to post info today and 3 times I've been shut down. I'm used to this kind of thing. Not my computer at fault, happens to me on any computer.
May 25th, 2008 at 9:58 pm
The end of the world ……NO…..end of life on Earth…..NO. The next 8-10 years will be the end of this world for a humongous number of lives, both by human and natural causes.
May 25th, 2008 at 10:53 pm
All these things occurring in the earth were already foretold in scripture, both Old and New Testaments. I found 2012 in Daniel 12(the 1335th day), the 'sign of the son of man'(Matt. 24:29-31)occurred May 6, 2002, and the 'fervent heat' which Peter wrote about, to which Isaiah also refers to in 30:26, is forthcoming. All of these things come to one conclusion: the end of the 'age' of the Gentiles, and the change from 'satan's' rule to God's rule in the earth for the sabbath day. Scripture also speaks about the financial collapse of all the kingdoms. So it is not the end of the 'world', but a change in the way mankind does things in it. You can expect 1/3 to be burned up in the fire, 1/3 taken by sword and pestilence, and 1/3 refined through this time.
When your source is God FIRST, then all things come clear.
May 25th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Oh, and if you use your Starry Night program, go to 12/21/2012, and look in the daytime sky around 2 pm. Although they will not be 'visible', there are 3 planets aligned on the solar ecliptic on each side of the sun(this does not include Pluto)….ie. o-o-o-O-o-o-o . Kind of reminds me of a menorah…
May 26th, 2008 at 5:50 am
"This is mythology, something that you cannot prove or disprove." HA! You've got to be kidding me.
I guess that's why the conspiracy theorists and nutjobs with tinfoil hats are clinging to it for dear life, because all of this Planet X/Nibiru crap is just that. Crap. When December 22, 2012 rolls around (and it will by the way, whether we're here to see it or not), the idiots will just set the date ahead by another 10-20 years and find another excuse to justify it.
Oh yeah, and to that bible-thumping maniac Michael up there? Fuck you. When your source is God FIRST then you're already living a lie.
May 26th, 2008 at 6:11 am
That is funny, two know-it-alls butting heads.
May 26th, 2008 at 7:43 am
regarding planet x, may i refer you to the website YOWUSA.com for more info…i find these guys to be extremely credible…check them out then make up your own mind…we are all entitled to our own beliefs and opinions, but we are also obligated to make sure they are educated and well-informed…the worldwide web puts everything at our fingertips…open your minds–read, study, analyze, question—but be smart about it… but don't bury your head in the sand and say it is all absurd…there is so much happening in the world around us…there are so many things that cannot be explained by conventional means…so perhaps it is time to step AND LOOK out of the box…it sort of appears to me that everything we know is WRONG…science, as we were taught when i was going to school 40 years ago, no longer applies…science has not kept up with technology..we see things, but we don't know what we are looking at… scientific research and explanations get squashed and censored before we ever hear the sound bytes on the news…what our government knows and is NOT telling us would be enough to sustain this planet, no mattter what happens to it…HOWEVER, we are in critical times…fossil fuel is almost depleated…we are using up all our food resources as an alternative to fossil fuel (ie. corn, wheat, rice)…natural disasters are at an epidemic proportion in our country and worldwide…this planet can no longer sustain its population…the logical answer??? let an event like planet X run its course…without any warning…the planet will survive, but the people, or most of us on it–will not…except for the elite and/or chosen few…the reason for disclosure??? world-wide panic…it is up to each and every one of us to become informed, and to understand all aspects of every debate presented in this forum…these are opinions—some of them, i might add, are extremely close-minded…we cannot stop or prevent the events of today, but the one question that i have heard no one ask is "What if that were me?" as long as it keeps happening to other people, no one pays attention…it is my opinion, that some day–and some day in our lifetime–it may very well be all of us…
May 26th, 2008 at 8:28 am
just an added footnote—YOU DO NOT HAVE TO AGREE TO UNDERSTAND!!!!
May 26th, 2008 at 8:44 am
I don't think everyone realizes all the aspects that line up on this date. The earth and the suns magnetic poles are suppose to switch causing opposite poles to attract. This would cause huge solar flares when the sun switches poles. Also all the planets are suppose to come into alignment. Now wouldn't this cause something to go wrong on earth? Like maybe pulling all the planets into the center of the galaxy or all the planets colliding. I believe that the world will end December 21, 2012. The mayans predicted this over 5,000 some years ago and now scientist say that this is all really going to happen on this date. So explain that!
May 26th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Wow, some amazing discussion on this thread! I so wish I had time to chat to you all about your take on doomsday etc. I think it is key to take on everyone's opinion and decide for yourselves.
I am curious though…
To becky:
You say: "…there is so much happening in the world around us…there are so many things that cannot be explained by conventional means…"
- Can you elaborate about that "things" you talk about? I'm just wondering if you are referring to spiritual, religious or scientific factors.
I look forward to reading more! Thank you all for your contributions.
Ian
May 26th, 2008 at 8:59 am
It is so easy to start this nonsense, but next to impossible to end it. I am doing a book on astronomy that does involve Mayans, however, I was fortunate enough to have professors read it. Where changes were required, they were made. My worse fear is what others who destroy facts will do with it after over a decade of research.
May 26th, 2008 at 9:04 am
Hi alex:
Actually, scientists are not agreeing that all these doomsday events are going to happen at the same time. This is the very reason why I'm running these articles! The Planet X myth is based on very dubious "science" (see http://www.universetoday.com/2008/05/25/2012-no-planet-x/), and yet people think it's been "proven". No scientist has ever said "Planet X will arrive on 2012, destroying life as we know it". As for polar shift ideas… well, there is even less "evidence" that this is going to happen in 2012. For the record I'm a solar physicist, and just so you know, the solar phenomenon you describe is very wrong (and no, the physics isn't flawed).
The Sun will reverse polarity long after the year 2012, and this is by no means a doomsday event in itself, the Sun does it every 11 years! As for the Earth reversing polarity too, right in time for the beginning of a new solar cycle… just so you know, likelihood of a change in Earth polarity in the near future is not only unlikely it is vanishingly unlikely. As for both events happening on Dec 21th 2012 – impossible.
I would be very careful about websites or books claiming that there is evidence to the contrary, I can guarantee that there is no scientist willing to back up these claims.
Planetary alignment – well, the planets are "aligning" all the time in some way shape or form. If the gravitational influence was that strong every time the planets "alligned", I wouldn't be typing this now. We're not living on a planet suffering huge tidal shear from other planetary bodies.
As for the Mayans, they didn't actually predict the end of the Earth…
So to cut a long story short, never jump to conclusions. It seems very appealing to believe in the end of the world, but take it from me, it ain't happening in 2012.
Thanks, Ian
May 26th, 2008 at 9:15 am
A pervious search of 99 percent of the sky for a brown dwarf orbiting the Sun failed to find it. The orbit of such a beast in the Oort Cloud requires it to be farther than any stellar companion is known at its most distance point.
Our orbit in the galaxy explains comet showers. Besides, if such a companion was there, it would have been noticed. We have studied where comets come from. They are random.
With the Kuiper Belt studied so well since its discovery, we would also notice disturbances in it. Where are they?
May 26th, 2008 at 9:36 am
Dear Ian,
If I had said that Galaxies are actually BALL/ Shere shaped 25 years ago, I would have been called NUTS. It is OK now though, due to Dark matter and Dark energy.
I did know that Galaxies are spherical 25 years ago, and how I knew is my business for now. The point is that most cannot set asside ego and emotions whilst doing their due diligence, nor do they leave room for the fact that with the passing of time and study, our understanding becomes clearer.
May 26th, 2008 at 9:42 am
Like wise had I said that Black Holes exist at the centre of all galaxies, and that they contribute matter into a galaxy, and don't just devour matter, I would have been called NUTS.
May 26th, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Is there anybody out there who has ridden the roller coaster called "our solar system" on any occasion that it crossed the galactic equator ? If so, we need you to tell us of your experience as we are in need of your insight.
May 26th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Yeah, I used to laugh at the doomsayers back in the nineties. I said Jesus wasn't coming at the millenium. I said the aliens aren't coming. I said Y2K was a bunch of BS. I was ridiculed. It is great to have the last laugh.
May 27th, 2008 at 8:29 am
None of us alive today has been through the experience of the Galactic Equator. If the people of 5-6 thousand years ago did, they have left us some info, but the 2 experiences can never be exactly the same.
There is a lot of "crying wolf" that goes on, but no one can be right all of the time, just as they can't be wrong all of the time.
May 27th, 2008 at 9:41 am
Dear Ian,
As for both events happening on Dec 21th 2012 – impossible. I am sorry but I cant help but say that you are stupid for saying its impossible. The planets will all come into alignment on this day the mayans predicted it over 5000 years ago and scientist are proving that they are coming more into alignment each year. And for the poles switching, i understand yes the suns polls switch every 11 years thats how the mayans knew it would switch on 2012 along with the earths. I understand you might be a scientist or whatever. But what about all the proof that is finally coming together how can you deny all of this and say its IMPOSSIBLE? Also i never said anything about planet x i could care less about that. Honestly our government and nasa lies to us everyday so how can we believe some solar scientist?
May 27th, 2008 at 10:02 am
Ian–in answer to you questions, i will try and keep this brief…and please remember–these are only one person's opinions:
religiously, we have fallen apart…history tells us that this country was founded on religious freedom…"one nation under God"…what happened to the separation of church and state, and tolerance for another person personal religious beliefs? tolerance has sadly been replaced by political correctness…we can't offend anyone EXCEPT those who hold a fundamental belief in God…and those people are the ones losing that very right…no more "one nation under God"..no more "in God we trust"…God is being taken out of the equation…
spiritually, one does not have to be religious to be spiritual, tho the two do intertwine more often that not…spirituality, to me, is about believing in one's self and believing in something bigger than myself…forces that i cannot touch or see working for me in my life…all for a greater cause or purpose…things happening for a reason…this concept for some is a bunch of hooey…and i understand that…i can only speak for me and how it has worked in my life…
scienticifally, we are dwarfs–mental midgets…and i mean no offense to anyone by using that terminology!!
we cannot decide where we came from, much less where we are going…it is all speculation…somebody created the "Big picture"…and somewhere down the line, it got made into a puzzle of 1000 different pieces, and then everybody became a specialist…each specialist grabbed one piece of the puzzle and disected it, analyzed it to death, debated it, and even transformed it into something it was not…meanwhile the big picture is being lost to obscurity…everything has to be explained, and some of those explanations, to me, are preposterous, illogical, unreasonable, and just plain wrong…they just don't make sense to me…we have all this technology, but to what means? we are advancing so fast, that things become obsolete in just a matter of years…but we keep falling back and relying on what we think we know…and for me, that shoe just doesn't fit any more…instead of embracing new thoughts, ideas, problems, concepts, even possible destruction or our planet…we waste all out time and resources trying to DISCREDIT it, instead of DISPROVING it…ya just don't shoot the messenger!!!! some our scentists and researchers have invested their lives, only to have it squashed or shot down because it was outside the box…that is exactly what we need…people who are willing to think outside the box…to open their eyes and minds to ALL THINGS…it is our minds that play the tricks on us…it is not what we see, what we hear, what we feel—it is the center through which all these things are processed—our minds…and we owe it to ourselves to become curious, noncomplacent, interested, passionate about something, inquisitive…so what if we don't understand it, or cannot explain it by conventional means…we should still stand humbly in awe of it…if we had all the answers, WHAT WOULD WE DO WITH THEM??? would it really make that much of a difference??? i think not…
our littlle planet, in its little solar system, hanging out in our little galaxy, are racing across the universe at speeds we cannot even begin to comprehend…yes…. things are changing…every second as we know time to be, hurls us further into unchartered territory…fasten your seatbelts, kids–we are just along for the ride…this is one of the things we cannot control…
doomsday theories are not a matter of if, but when…so lets zoom back in and refocus on the issues at hand…maybe each one of us cannot change the world, but we can change our own little corners of it…
become curious again, ask questions, look to find answers that fit your beliefs, inform and educate yourself, open your eyes and minds to things that do not fit the norm…nobody is with absolute certainty right or wrong…sometimes the more absurd something sounds, the more likely it is to be true…
thank you so much for providing this forum…whether you agree, disagree, or think i am a bonafied idiot..that's okay…it feels very rewarding to be able to put all this out there.
May 27th, 2008 at 10:28 am
Hi alex, thank you for your polite response. I am in no way stupid, and it kinda reveals the kind of person you are for that little outburst. The Mayans never said the Earth's polarity AND the Sun's polarity will switch at the same time! Where the hell did you get that little gem? I really want to know, that would most certainly change my opinion on the Mayan Prophecy – did this ancient race REALLY understand magnetohydrodynamic theory? Did they REALLY understand the variability in the Earth's magnetic field? If they did, I had better re-write my thesis!
Please, give your opinions, but do not blast the opposition with name calling.
Thanks, Ian
May 27th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Dear All, Re the last post.
We are unable to understand how Pyramids (all over the world) and the likes of Stonehenge were truly built in fact, but they were. To date we only have hypotheses re the techniques that might have been used.
If they managed to build whichever way they did, why would they have not had knowlege of e.g. Magnetohydrodynamics, and then some.
I for one do not believe that past civilisations, by sheer virtue of having lived in the past, must by default be less knowlegable than we are today. On the contrary, they were in some fields way ahead of us. There is such a thing as civilisations de-evolving and de-civilising.
May 27th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
im really scared can someone tell me the turth im scared for my kids
May 27th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
don't be afraid, meagan—don't be afraid…
you have to search for the truth…it manifests itself in many different ways…your truth or my truth is not necessarily everybody elses…
May 27th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
would you like to meet chris brown???he's rite here wit me rite now!!!! he's my cousin.we iz blood cousins.he makin me type this down.
he say he want to meet some gurlz . he 18 yrs old, he says bt you hav 2write rite now.he say he'll be waitin until 11:00………I lov yall says chris.chris B. waz rite her (& wat!)
May 27th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~izapa/ regarding the history of the Mayan calendar.
In my studies of Sumerian (30 years ago), I found no suggestion of an end of the world, nor any cyclical period longer than a year.
in regards to pyramid building, check out
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=homestead+florida+castle
A castle of coral built completely by one man during the early 20th century without power tools.
There is a great deal of interest in the ancient engineers, and a number of worthy books on the subject.
Be Well,
Bob Griffin
May 28th, 2008 at 7:54 am
we all have lives already, space gays!!! but wanting to matter or make a difference is a huge part of mine..thank you for being concerned.
May 28th, 2008 at 7:57 am
we ALL have lives already, space gays!!! and that's the whole point!!! but wanting to matter or make a difference is a huge part of mine..thank you for being concerned.
May 28th, 2008 at 10:01 am
IGNORANCE AND ILLITERACY DOTH RUN AMOK…instead of playing with the circus in your pants, have you noticed that there is a three-ring circus going on in the world around you??? just curious…
May 28th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Lil' A!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are not interested in the subject of this thread….take your subject where it belongs.
May 28th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Ian,
Sorry for calling you stupid but i really do believe either the whole world will end or something drastic will happen on this date. once again how can we believe a scientist when the government and nasa and cia and fbi and kgb all these people lie to us.We base almost everything that we started from the mayans. They began the long count calendar that is now our 365 day calendar. Why would we base so much of how our so called "days" run on the mayans unless they knew what they were talking about.
~" Scholar and author John Major Jenkins reports,"On 13.0.0.0.0, the December solstice sun will be found in the band of the Milky Way. We can call this an alignment between the galactic plane and the solstice meridian. This is an event that has slowly converged over a period of thousands of years, and is caused by the precession of the equinoxes. The place where the December solstice sun crosses the Milky Way is precisely the location of the "dark-rift in the Milky Way…'xibalba be' – the road to the underworld."
~"The Maya messengers, reknowned for their architectural, artistic, mathematical and scientific achievements, left a calling card as a series of super-human sized stone monuments and pyramids with precise calendrical computations. Planted with great intention, these dates were left to ensure that future generations would be alerted to the coming end point of this great 26,000 year cycle. A cycle which corresponds also to a 26,000 year relationship of our Sun orbiting Alcyone, the central star of the 7 Sisters Pleiades constellation. According to the Maya, the "future" which lies beyond this end date is literally "a new world age" – "a new creation."
Let me know what you think.
May 28th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
The……end of the world is……soon, for humanity has slaved animals(beings) on the earth for countless years……….HUMANITY SHALL NOT GO UNPUNISHED!
May 28th, 2008 at 6:49 pm
OK Guys im really kinda scared about this i dont wanna die IM ONLY TEN plz i want a good answer that will calm me down becuase theres a book that says PLANET X And How to survive 2012 i really dont wanna die in 4 years. Please i want a good answer proving this is all a mith. Im really freaked out. D=
May 28th, 2008 at 6:52 pm
i spelled myth wrong
May 28th, 2008 at 7:37 pm
blake…please do not be afraid…if you are only 10 years old, then you need to understand that planet x is not going to slam into our earth and knock it out of existance…it is flying through our solar system…and it's presence will have an affect on everything that keeps our planet spinning and in place…we do not know exactly what will happen when planet x flies by,… this is the first time in 3600 years or so…so our present knowledge is of no help to us…we can only guess…but things as we know them to be right now are going to change…it doesn't mean we are all gonna die…it means that there is going to be a huge natural disaster, much like a tornado, or hurricane, or earthquake, that will affect a large portion of our planet…i do not believe it will wipe us all out–but i think there will be a lot of lives lost…
talk to your parents about your fears…talk to your teachers, your preacher or priest, or whoever will listen to you…but don't be afraid to live…or die…planet x is not something that we can control…it's been doing this for 1000's of years,and we are still here…a little different, maybe–a little worn for wear…but we're still here…if you believe in God, you might want to renew your friendship with him…he's a good friend to have on your side…you also have to know that things happen for a reason…good, bad, or otherwise…and that a blessing hides in every one of them…
i really hope this has helped you, if even just a little…go be happy, and find your joy…and stop worrying so hard… stay curious and keep searching for answers…none of know with certainty what the future holds…
May 29th, 2008 at 5:56 am
You guys won't even notice the wobble/alignment/ i has happened LOADS of times in the past. No effect. and the solar ray stuff wont be noticed either… might be some like cell phone probs for a day.
Mayan calendar doesn;t mean nothing it just resets. It was actualy a HUGE celebration for the mayans to complete the great cycle. bigger then the milenium.
doomsday? please. more of a mexican celebration
May 29th, 2008 at 6:17 am
Dear Becky,
I'd really like you to recommend the website that you personally think is closest to the truth and the most accurate Mayan translations.
May 29th, 2008 at 6:23 am
i am so sorry, leah–please forgive me…
May 29th, 2008 at 6:43 am
please let me get back with you regarding that website…i have read so many…but i will narrow it down and pick the one…thank you for putting up with me for as long as you have…i will get back with you….
May 29th, 2008 at 7:58 am
leah–i keep going back to marshall master's YOWUSA.com website…upon first arriving there, you will think it is nothing but a doom and gloom website about planet x..marshall masters has been an advocate for planet x disclosure for years…however—through his search engine i found several links and a couple really good books that laid out for me in terms i could understand the mayan calendar and code…
the first book is by barbara hand clow
"the mayan code–time acceleration and awakening the world mind"
the second book is my john major jenkins
"maya cosmogenesis 2012"
now, i am not a rocket scientist by any means—but these books laid it all out for me and and leveled the playing field so i could understand…and understanding is the hinge that opens and closes all doors…
both authors have blogs, and the debates rage on…
please bear in mind that this website and these links were catalysts FOR ME in invoking understanding and insight rather that fear…everything is relative…
thank you so very much once again for allowing me valued space on this thread…
May 29th, 2008 at 8:13 am
Thanks Becky,
Its just that over the years I've read stacks of books, then thousands of websites, so wanted to get a different take on the subject, like yours. Will check out your suggestions in the coming days, and add their info to my jigsaw puzzle, fast making a clear picture,
Shame if you not in UK.
May 30th, 2008 at 7:26 am
leah–thank you for being so kind…home, for me, is phoenix, arizona, USA
May 30th, 2008 at 8:38 am
yes, guys–i HAVE A LIFE!!! this week has been a little less hectic for me because i
ve been on vacation…that is why so much time has been spent here the past couple days…i took a minute this morning and reread all the ideas and opiinions presented on this thread…sometimes there are afterthoughts, and here is one of them…
perhaps to some degree, we are all hypocrits…we all want to be right…but being right really isn't all that matters here…whether we get slammed out of existance tomorrow, next year, 2012, 2030, or never in our lifetime, what do you think would happen if we all started living our lives like it WERE our last day on earth???
thank you once again for indulging me…
May 30th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Leah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are not interested in the subject of this thread …. take your subject where it belongs.
May 30th, 2008 at 10:57 am
Dear Becky,
You are responsible enough for me to respect,thank you.As for you,Leah,I hate you.I do not care if you dont like what i'm saying about you, i don't care……I just hate you.Bye Becky!!!!
May 30th, 2008 at 11:00 am
Oh and Leah you have to stop critisizing people on here such as for me.So quit sayin' $hit,Bitch!!!!!
May 30th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Leah, I can say what ever I want to, it is a free country.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Lil'A!!!, So you reserve the right of freedom to say as you please…..but I may not ?
I'd wrather hear your views on the times we are living in.
May 30th, 2008 at 3:02 pm
Leah, I am so very sorry about my rude comments that I have said about you.Do you forgive me?I apologize……..I would also like to discuss about our views on the times we are living in.
Sincerely,
Lil' A
P.S.
I would not like to have any more unnesessary comments from the both of us.
May 30th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
I would also like to get to know you,Leah, and also the rest of you people that are on here typing about the world.
May 30th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Hi Lil'A!!!,
No problem. Do you think or feel that some big change is coming in or around 2012 ?
May 30th, 2008 at 4:51 pm
wow,,,I don't know whether to laugh or bulk.
At any rate, there will be plenty of deep breaths taken come 2012
May 30th, 2008 at 8:06 pm
Reading this thinking it's a wonder well thats the problem.
Change is nature but belief shrouds what the mind wants to say. Another thing is that what people are adjusted to alters what a certain thing signifies.
May 30th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
True. That is why I've set asside belief and opinion in order to understand the signs.
May 31st, 2008 at 7:43 am
one thing for sure is- that 2012 does play a part in the role of things. Look at all the comments as well as just the day to day thinking/talk which is going on in the world. Man has sure messed up things! As for a big fix? Not going to be easy-might have to just start all over again.
May 31st, 2008 at 8:29 am
If I set aside the legacy of ancient knowlege discovered by archeologists, all myths and legends, the signs still point to hard times and changes.
Why ? The atomic and nuclear bomb testing that has been done, the systematic poisoning of land and life through the use of man transmuted chemicals, and polution caused , e.g. The garbage islands in the pacific, CO2 in the atmoshere, efluents in every body of water incl rivers, the list is long and goes on and on.
I try to counter balance all that should have been done differently or not at all against the question "What good has the human race done for the Earth?" to justify the deeds as above.
This is where I hit a brick wall and need your help. If I put myself in the shoes of Mother Earth (I am a mother and have a daughter) I cannot find anything which has helped or benefited Earth.
Therefore Earth, aside from influences from the univerese, reacts. Cause and effect.
Reactions are a daily occurance, earthquakes, tsunamis, hurricanes, tornados, cyclones, floods, volcanic eruptions etc etc. In recent times the reactions (the effects of our causes) have increased in number or intensity, sometimes both, in any one time period.
All this can be gleaned quickly from even just the last 65 years of our actions/causes.
Even if we do an about face turn in the way we live right now, the effects of our past actions/causes will continue for many years. Nature/Earth can do it, so long as we don't keep adding to the S–T pile. We must do it for the children of today, and for the children of tomorrow, that is if we care.
Whether little grey or green men or Niburu come or not, the path that we are on now does not spell Good Stuff for 2012 or any other year. Just same old same old, more sickness, more war, etc etc.
We all each occupy a room in this wonderful house/home called Earth. At some stage we are going to have to WAKE UP, SMELL THE COFFEE, and READ THE WRITING ON THE WALL, and realise we are all one family living in the same home. We must stop arguing/War, stop being jealous and greedy (always wanting what the other sibling has) and work together to keep our home clean, healthy and happy.
Naturally the animals and plantlife are also part of our family. To trash Earth is to trash the whole family, animals and vegetation. Mother Earth can afford to do this…..she can always make more children. The children CANNOT make another Mother/EARTH.
May 31st, 2008 at 8:38 am
hi, guys!!! it got a little awkward there…thanks for restoring order to this thread…thought i'd throw another website into the mix…
coasttocoastam.com
coast to coast is also a radio broadcast that airs on your AM stations (KFY55 AM here in phoenix)…they are the alphabet soup of food for thought for me…in fact, it is from their website that i found the "no Doomsday 2012" link that brought me here to begin with…it may not be for everybody, but they do cover a wide range of all topics…including the mayan calendar, and every other subject in between…for some, it might be worth a peak if you like adventures…it also provides a link that highlights every show they have broadcasted for years…if there is any one subject you are interested in
just thought i'd share…thank you so much once again for your indulgance…
May 31st, 2008 at 8:47 am
Hi Becky,
How are you today ?
C to C am, useful, look in once a day for years now. Other good ones are Thothwe.com, Earthfiles.com and Standeyo.com. I use them as tools, amongst many other sites to get a really broad opinion base.
May 31st, 2008 at 8:47 am
That would be THOTHWEB.com
May 31st, 2008 at 9:30 am
leah–great points!!!! we absolutely have no control over the future—and whether we want to believe it or not, history does have a way of repeating itself…the only thing that changes is the way it repeats…things most certainly are not the same now as when the mayans thrived…what is evident and still remains unexplained is how and why they disappeared…but, i see parallels…if drought and famine caused greed, war, and then the demise of an entire civilization…HELLO!!!
…LOOK AROUND!!! replace that drought and famine with the depleating of fossil fuel, food products, disregard for earth, the enviroment, then add in more greed and politics…and we most certainly are following the very same path…one would think that with the superior intelligence and insight that the mayans possessed, they could have prevented that from happening, it that is in fact, what happened…
there was also the rise and fall of the roman empire (greed), two world wars (world war II because we cut off the oil supply to japan)
for a people who claim to have superior intelligence over all other beings, we just dont' seem to get it.
i do very much like what you said about living in the "NOW"…now is all we really have…
…let's say, just for the sake of argument, that you walk out your front door leaving for work, or to run errands…you are engrossed in thought about the meeting you have that afternoon, or the appointments you have tomorrow, or the trip you have to take next week…all of a sudden, you get hit by a bus….and everything ends…you got hit by that bus because you weren't paying attention to NOW…you were worring about things that have yet to happen…and for what???
yesterday is dead and gone…and we have absolutely no control over tomorrow…RIGHT NOW is all we have…and we owe it to ourselves, our parents, grandparents,our children, grandchildren, neices, nephews, friends and foe alike, to make it count…none of us are saviors, but we are stewards…
May 31st, 2008 at 9:39 am
leah–we are on the same pages…love earthfiles and standeyo…will check out thothweb…thanks so very much for the input
May 31st, 2008 at 9:54 am
Too right Becky. We do however need to consider the future, when it is appropriate (not when our attention should be in the NOW) as what we do now effects the future downline.
I've spent a lifetime observing and thinking about the fundemental difference between animals and humans. One conclusion I have drawn is that Animals live 99% in the NOW, and plan ahead for short periods of time, e.g. one breeding season.
Humans plan much farther ahead, but predjudice their plans and future by not practicing their plans in the present. Human planning is more in the realms of WISHING and DREAMING, so their plans remain un-acted upon for the most part.
Animals plan to breed and do it, despite all the stumbling blocks and dangers they have to overcome. The powers that be are the ones that Plan a war, then do it, as one example only.
So my piece of wisdom is BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU WISH FOR….YOU WILL GET IT.
Therefore make better wishes, and act on them.
May 31st, 2008 at 10:11 am
Becky, which country do you live in ?
May 31st, 2008 at 12:28 pm
I feel that the world is not going to change because sometimes people make mistakes, I mean, well……….you know,nobody is perfect.So, I am thinking that the world might not end for any matter of that reason.
May 31st, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Leah, which country do you live in ?I live in The United States of America.
May 31st, 2008 at 2:34 pm
bad bart,you should change your name to:B.B.i'm just giving my opinion.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Hi, I'm in the UK. Lil'A!!!, you are right about none of us being perfect. We could be better at everything we do if we learnt from our mistakes. Or we could admit that there are better ways of doing things, even if they are not mistakes.
May 31st, 2008 at 5:13 pm
The sad sorry truth is that we already know that we have damaged the planet. The other thing we know is that Planet Earth cannot deal with the amount of garbage, chemicals etc as quickly as we are able to dump them.
If the planet could re-process as quickly as we produce…..then everything would be fine…problem is that it isn't fine, and we all know it.
May 31st, 2008 at 7:00 pm
I agree with Algore about Global Warming because the world should not contaminated anymore by exhaust from cars and other gases.I also think that more people should recycle because that is what's polluting our lakes,rivers,beaches,…….etc.I think people should lower down gas prices because it's becoming such a hazard to where people have to be walking to the grocery stores to get food.If we do not stop Global Warming,our world may come upon dangerous temperatures.For Example:about a week ago, 1,000 people in Windsor,Colorado lost their house because 2 or 3 tornados wiped them out.While I was driving back from a family vacation in Tacoma,Washington, I went through some horrifing temperatures.I went through hail,snow,fogg,and rain, all in one night.That was the day before tornados swept through North Eastern Colorado.Those tornados almost hit Greeley,Colorado which was the town next to Windsor and also my home town that I am living in write now.That is why I think people should start taking buses and/or riding bikes.Thank you for letting me share my story with you.
May 31st, 2008 at 7:12 pm
What can I say Lil'A!!!, you right. The USA has taken a big battering from a variety of disasters like so many other places in the world. I think that Europe has just been luck so far. The pain and suffering around the world of people, and nature is something that cannot be measured. I'm glad you got home safe.
May 31st, 2008 at 11:08 pm
Ian,
I see you haven't commented me back yet, I guess that means I am right. Also look at these sites and then try to prove me wrong….Even when the history channel made a a episode about 2012. Oh also one of the famous people that predicted the polar shifts was Albert Einstein. Also you will see in one of the links that NASA does confirm the solar storms/flares i was talking about. Even the BIBLE (that so many people live by) foretells the apocalypse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11iCmzGnOI8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6wI3Pbolbw
I would like a response this time.
Thanks,
Alex
June 1st, 2008 at 12:39 am
Hi I just got done reading this and i got to feeling a bit better,I have been so scared for the last few days thinking OMG we only have 4 years left?Am I going to get to see my daughter and my sons grow up?
i am very sensitive about that subject, it a very short period of time between now and December 2012 I am still a little scared but your article makes sense and it makes me fell a little better,my daughter is only going to be 4 years old,i hate to think that i will not get to see my only girl and my 3 boys grow up,if you have anything else to say to maybe comfort my thoughts I will really appreciate it!Thanks for the insight…:)
June 1st, 2008 at 2:11 am
This whole Mayan calendar and Nibiru planet thingie seems so easy to debunk.
The mayan cyclical calendar started in 3114 BC, it ends 5126 years later in 2012. But if this calendar has any relationship to planet X (Nibiru) which has a supposed orbit time of around 3600 years, wel.. it doesn't really make sense. First of all, we don't even know what this planet x actually is, if it even exists, let alone know the orbit time.
Planet X supposed 3600 year orbit time doesn't fit into the mayan calendar cycle at all. That would mean a worldwide disaster happened 3600 years ago, well did it? During that time the Egyptian civilization was still going strong, there's nothing that hinted a total world destruction at the time. So howcome people believe this nonsense?
June 1st, 2008 at 2:42 am
You are thinking on this ILLOGICALLY and completely Emotionally.
YOUR mind cannot conceive that the end of the Mayan Calendar COULD mean the "End of Life as we know it", because you Believe that those who believe so are thinking irrationally and emotionally.
This is the same thing that Psychology says when a patient believes in a High Being, they say that this person Must have a Psychological problem, because they believe in something that they cannot prove with Physical Proof.
Believing something that cannot be physically proven does not make the believer irrational or emotionally controlled. It give them something to believe in, and is more often than not a PRODUCTIVE thing. It is what has given us CIVILIZATION. Before mankind had Beliefs that they could not physically prove, there was No Civilization.
The first nation-states to bring this to fruition, that we know of, were Sumeria and Jerico. In Sumeria, they Believed in the Same thing that the Mayan believed would "End Life as we know it." That being the Anunaki, who purportedly live on what we think of as Planet X.
This is Not so far fetched of an idea to believe. Our Solar system has, by the Astronomy experts, been proven to be part of a Bi-nary System, then other Likely being a Brown DDrawrf Star (Since we Cannot SEE it, but the Planet Earth CAN FEEL IT, due to gravatational forces.)
This purported Brown Drawrf Star COULD have a planet rotating it, that we could not see, due to the lack of Shine from the start it is rotating around.
IF this is a potential "Plant X", and there is a race of creatures on that planet called the Anunaki, then YOU would be proven wrong.
I don't think that is likely to happen, but "I" WILL NOT call those who believe it to be real "Irrational" as you have done here (even if you did not use that term itself).
But, You CANNOT Predict what will or what will not occur on December 21st, 2012 (or as some who believe in the Mayan Prophecy state is that time of May 5th, 2012). Since YOU Cannot look into the Future with ANY sense of accuracy, you CANNOT Scientifically state that Nothing will happen on that date other than a "Normal" day.
The end of the Mayan Calendar ""COULD"" mean the "End of Life as we know it",
It is VERY POSSIBLE that That Could or Will occur. I know that because I KNOW that Mankind CANNOT Accurately Predict what the Future hold. That Includes YOU!
Now, while your Math on the Mayan Calendar is SPOT ON, your further leanings are Nothing More or Less than "YOU OPINION". And that is All they are.
You could BE Correct. Or you could be Absolutely Incorrect. We will NEVER Know Until That Date.
Do we stop doing all the things that we normally do, in case it does happen as the Mayan Prophecy states?……NO, that would be stupid and Ignorant.
What we SHOULD do is make sure that we are Always Prepared for ANY Major Disaster, just as ALL people who live along a Coast SHOULD be. Or those who live in Tornado regions, or those living in Earthquake prone areas.
But REMEMBER THIS, IF the Mayan Prophecy Does Occur, it will Not matter who was right and who was wrong, it will Only matter as to our reactions to it, whatever "IT" may be, Good, Bad or Indifferent.
But focus More of Science than on your Own Personal Conjecture, if you are going to view yourself as a scientist, and this Article is NOT based upon Science, it is based upon CONJECTURE and MATHEMATICS, and nothing more.
June 1st, 2008 at 7:00 am
Dear EdP,
If ther is truth in the Mayan writings and Planet X has caused problems in the past it would have done so not 3600 years ago but on a previous fly by, as in the last time our solar system aligned with the galactic equator/plane.
Its just that the Mayans started writing up this particular calendar 5126 years ago….why….because it was time to write the next calendar/phase, just as we make/start a new calendar every January 1st.
Therefore what the Mayans are telling us about is an event that took place it is thought approx 28,000 years ago, which is about to re-occur in a SIMILAR but not carbon copy way. I have my suspicions that we may cross the galactic plane more often than that.
For all we know, Planet X might have burnt out since then or been thrown off its orbit.
All peoples of all periods in time make records of their experiences as a legacy for future generations….history books, stone carvings…no difference. Except stone lasts longer than books in some cases and climates.
No one should believe that we are the most knowlegable of all peoples that have ever lived on Earth….unless it helps you sleep better.
All things happen by formula in nature on earth as it does in the universe… and not by specific dates or by rote.
June 1st, 2008 at 7:15 am
What if the precession of the equinoxes, give or take 28,000 years that coincides with the alignment with the galactic plane, but Planet X's fly by does not, happening at a different time, or at least this time round? Is it conceivable that the translators of the Mayan writings misunderstood to some degree ?
June 1st, 2008 at 7:33 am
thank every one of you for such wonderful, wonderful insight and input to this thread…
leah , as always, and EdP–for me, both right on the mark!!! Lil A!!!! thank you so much for opening up and giving me a peak into your world…i have a new-found respect for you…ingrid, again i can only repeat–do not be afraid…be mindful, but never afraid…leah and Edp both nailed it…we all have lives to live here…a fear of what might happen cannot define how we live each day…kids are young and very impressionable, but believe me, they can adapt—probably much better than we, as adults can…am i going to sell my house, my car, pack up personal belongings, and head for the hills to find a real nice cave to live in???? no!!! i have a life to live…(leah, by the way, home for me is in phoenix, arizona, USA)…this is the point where my spirituality comes into play for me…life is a gift!!! live it!!! instead of hiding from the storm, learn to dance in the rain!!! (unless, of course, its tornadoes, hurricanes, hail, and gale-force winds…and that, of course, would just be stupidity) but, i'm sure you get my point…JUST-BE-MINDFUL!!! WE ARE LIVING IN SOME PRETTY SCARY TIMES. but that does not mean we have to stop living…
Lil A!!! so glad you are safe and sound…yes, the weather here in the united states has been so bazarre, lately…and, yes–it makes me wonder why…
…just another piece of that puzzle that lays wide open for debate…
my thanks to you all for letting me share.
June 1st, 2008 at 7:45 am
Are you leaving the thread Becky ?
June 1st, 2008 at 7:49 am
leah–no, it is not inconceivable that the mayan translators misunderstood…WHO were the translators???
June 1st, 2008 at 7:53 am
leah–i hadn't planned on leaving the thread–but if you want me to, i will!!
June 1st, 2008 at 8:08 am
No No, just that your earlier post sounded like a farewell, please stay !
June 1st, 2008 at 8:30 am
Becky, wikipedia search (I know….not necessarily accurate… but what is) MAYA SCRIPT gives the names of those involved, past and recent, in the translations of mayan texts etc.
June 1st, 2008 at 9:50 am
thank you–i just don't want to be intrusive–i know i can be a little hard to tolerate, at times…
please understand that i am not faulting your opinion in ANY way, leah…that was not the point of the question…FOR ME, i sometimes can't help but wonder if maybe small parts of the translation got squelched or maybe censored to some degree, that would allow the opening for debate…if so, when, who, and why???
the bible, the de vinci codes, the dead sea scrolls, the kuran—all scrutinized by translation…what's it all mean???
no one has to buy into a debate…either way…but there is a significance that cannot or should not be ignored…whether is is an interest in our history or concerns about our future…it all has significance…even with it's gaping holes…
June 1st, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Becky we are on the same page. Its hard to get the true sentiment from just the written word….the tones and inflections in the voice add so much to a coversation.
June 1st, 2008 at 12:32 pm
I think that it is possible that some, somwhere have more/clearer information re Mayans and 2012 etc, which we are not privy to.
However, just looking around me, I can tell that we have not yet reached the peak of present day conditions, after which things will start tailing off toward another trough and better times.
June 1st, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Hey fruitcake… and all people who define the 2012 date a doomsday, whether skeptical or not.
Mayans were not known 'just' for their pyramids, do your homework. They're known for their greatn deal of knowledge, especially in subjects of math and astronomy. Instead of doing a whole bunch of gibberish reading and research, just take in how things have been changing. No – global warming isn't happening, it's the poles shifting, any idiot would know this if they didn't fail geography.
The 2012 date is our(not just human) transformation into the 5th dimension. The mayans do 'not' predict this date or refer to it as anyway as a "doomsday" event. There's a reason why we have a black and women candidate running for president. There's a reason why awareness of our health is in danger and at a higher concern. There's also a reason for the global warming term being thrown around. There's a reason why everything we know, war, love, hate, everything we deal with is having dramatic change….it all deals with transformation into the next dimension and how we perceive reality. Now whether we get more damaging storms or not, all that's part of the history of earth's weather pattern, so the doomsday events will keep happening because of our earth's pattern of replenishing itself.
All I have to say is.. live your life as usual but don't be blind of change. The 2012 date isn't to cause fear but self-awareness and assistance into transforming into another dimension of reality.
June 1st, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Dear Matt,
Please take the time to read the whole string if you have not already.
I can assure you I have not been studying gibberish for 50 years.
June 1st, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Dear Leah,
I'm sorry. I only bothered to read a few.. there's too many here to read. I just wanted to aim to a couple skeptics and non-skeptics as well as the author. I've read a few of your responses and I agree with you. So no harm intended. I just would like people to stop thinking everything is so drastic and dramatic that the easiest answer is using the word "doomsday" in reference to ancient culture. And for the skeptics, I just wish they would stop debunking the most ancient of all cultures and see the bigger picture, rather than watch Indiana Jones or Sci-Fi's Crystal Skulls then jumping on the internet to do some math and lousy research.
June 1st, 2008 at 1:34 pm
Dear Matt,
The whole thread really is worthwhile reading.
June 1st, 2008 at 1:59 pm
This isn't a thread. Nor a forum. This is a blog. Blogs have comments. Which I don't waste my time on.
June 1st, 2008 at 2:13 pm
I would not normally reply to the last post,
but Matt if you don't waste your time on blogs, why did you bother to write a lengthy post on this one. Its a contradiction of terms, and confusing.
June 1st, 2008 at 2:21 pm
….your blind too. Read my first "comment" it was to everyone but it was strictly a comment to the author. You nor anyone else in the comments are the author.
It is not contradicting. I don't waste my time on reading the comments. Are you stupid? you clearly skip or comprehend any of the messages I post.
I read blogs… I don't waste my time reading people's comments. From this message forward.. I would like to edit my first comment and direct it 'only' to the author.
DONE
June 1st, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Should have addressed it to IAN or MR O'NIELL
June 1st, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Dear Matt,
You so very accurately pin pointed one of the biggest problems with so many peoples views. Extremism/Hollywood glitz and over dramatisation of what is happening.
June 1st, 2008 at 3:56 pm
All arguments aside.. yes, that's the problem. I work in the movie business so I know that both media and Hollywood will do what they can do to make a quick buck. While some is good informative material, they generalize and summarize this information into simple and false leading words i.e: conspiracy, doomsday, global warming, etc etc… Keywords are what attract an audience. The problem is the material being brought to awareness isn't fully explained.. and the reason is simple, there's no money or any public interest right now in knowing the details of all these troubles arising.
The world is being put through a case of fear right now by people in control by using things that are standard to life.. I think [that] is the transformation that will take place the year in 2012 and thereafter. I'm not sure if I read it here, but someone said "end of the world, no, change, yes." This is exactly what Dec 21 2012 is.
Simply put in reply to this article/blog. I wish the author put more effort in explaining rather debunking.. at least educating the reader more so the material doesn't display itself as a yes or no response.
June 1st, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Dear Matt,
"End of the world….NO…Change YES…..that was me.
I find many films useful, but in the context of "writers/film makers can only scratch the surface of a subject in the money and time alotted to a film/show". If the subject matter of a film or TV program is of interest, the viewer can do further in depth research.
June 1st, 2008 at 11:24 pm
thank you i was optimistic when i heard the news i dident know what to beleive but now i do thanks
June 2nd, 2008 at 6:11 am
matt, you made reference to the transformation about to take place…thank you so much for that–i have entertained that thought, as well…though i have absolutely nothing to substantiate this, do ya think that might be what happened to the mayans??? instead of destroying themselves, they transformed??? leah??? what do ya think???
June 2nd, 2008 at 7:32 am
Hi Becky,
Just so there's no misunderstanding, I have always been able to see the up side of any given thing that at first seems bad, and visa versa. Nothing is all bad, nothing is all good.
At the very least human attitude is on the brink of massive change, and it is for the better. The sooner attitude changes the less pain suffered. I can envisage that the Mayan civilisation reach a similar situation as we are in today, that obliged them to change their ways. They didn't disappear, just looks that way. More like maybe disperse.
I love the idea of assending as in "Stargate" and keep an open mind even on that subject.
If that is what's in store for 2012…fine…change of attitude…also good.
I feels to me that something between the 2 is already happening.
From all the different calendars the Mayans had, some much longer than the one ending in 2012, has just 1 calendar been found that goes beyond Dec 2012 ?
June 2nd, 2008 at 12:46 pm
Hello Becky,
In reference to the collapse of the mayans, no one really knows for sure and to this day, it's still debated. But their disappearance is definitely not related to the 2012 date.
When I speak of transformation, I relate this to the mind and the way we see and perceive things. Our mind will transition towards another frequency that will allow us to attain greater knowledge.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:52 am
Good Morning!!!! How are you all today????
my thinking was not is so much how they were connected but more towards how they were parallel…if at all…
for me, i find the very concept of transforming and/or ascending so EXCITING!!! it is truly like a ray of hope for me…our bodies have eneryg points–chakras–and it is through these energy points that we "vibrate"…we all vibrate at different levels…spiritual awareness is how we raise our vibration levels…awareness and understanding, once again, hold the keys!!! good always seems to submerge from even the most horrific situations…as is look across the continents and see all the devastation that has happened in china and even here in the united states, with earthquakes, floods, tornadoes…the one thing that remains constant is the goodness and kindness that lives in the hearts of mankind…in the overall scheme of things, that has to account for something…
WE ARE A GOOD PEOPLE…we just haven't realized how good we are, or can be…sadly, we are running like lemmings to the sea…my thought is to get the hell out of the herd…we do not have to jump to our own demise…but, hey!!! that's just me…
thanks, guys!!!! enjoy your day!
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:32 am
Hi,
Not that anyone will read this far down the thread, however. I have been looking into this for a very short time, just a couple of weeks with a strong emphasis on the Mayan culture. There are many other cultures that feel the same as the Mayans and many in the scientific community that have polar views on its validity.
In 1492 Cris Columbus set out to prove that the earth was round and the yea-sayers and nay Sayers of the time were equally divided as those in this post. We are all far too fragile to truly understand the great and vast properties of this universe let alone our own planet, yet, there are those that say nothing will happen and that something will happen. Therefore it simply a matter of perspective, scientifically proven or hysterically believed.
From what I've read of the Mayans and other cultures like it, they lived in harmony with the earth taking only that which they believed they needed and nurtured the earth in every way they could.
If we are so superior why did we loose this fundamental component of life? On the contrary, we have contributed to its destruction in the name of science, religion and even superstition.
If there is anything to be said for 2012 it should be that we have an opportunity to change and create a planet where humans do not "own" it, but rather heal it, sustain it, and as a global village prosper in it.
If it was true and you knew for sure the end were nigh, what choice would you make? Would you sit and wait for the end? Would you do the best to better yourself and your community? That is what I believe is the transformation coming in the next 4 years, Armageddon or not.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:14 pm
excellent points, and very well said, jeff—thanks so much for sharing them…
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:23 pm
If this is true, I would probably build a house or live in a cave somewhere in the stony mountains and reserve foods for a year. But I wanted the place to have a wifi ready so I can still do my online hobbies. lol
June 3rd, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Seriously, I've been reading a few days now about the Mayan culture. What Jeff said was true. I found out that Mayans always been pointing out the self-consciousness in each human being. We are the ones who can truly make possibilities in order to preserve the abundance of the earth.
On the other side, December 2012 means a new hope for all of us. Something that we deserve for what we've done from the past up to this moment. Whatever it is, let's just hope for the best. I also believed that this is a sign, if we're able to live after the said date (I prefer to call it "Golden Era"/ "Golden Age" instead of "Doomsday"/"Apocalypse"), that will prove human is still the most dominant species on the planet.
June 3rd, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Hi Becky and all,
Hope your day was as good and informative as mine.
Your point re WE ARE GOOD. I do wish that the human species would wake up to its INFINITE CAPACITY of GOOD. In reality the thing each human craves the most is TO LOVE, secondly to BE LOVED. Just got to put it into practice, and keep practicing.
June 4th, 2008 at 3:48 am
Hi again,
To Leah,
9 billion people are too many to convince. There are too many infinite possibilities of choice with that many people. This planet cannot sustain that many people and while we have all the easy comforts in the west, this kind of shift in consciousness cannot be accomplished without an alignment of ideologies.
Simply put we would have to reduce the global population by 90% in order to really create a "global village" if the doomsayers are right, then 2012 (and the years leading up to it if the ancient civilizations are correct) should provide that.
If they are wrong then I'm sure mankind and all its greed and evil will result in pretty much the same. World famine is already starting. Oil is no longer going to be available in 10 years. We are using food stores as BIOFUEL. We have it all wrong and the earth knows best how to clean itself. I trust in that.
June 4th, 2008 at 6:01 am
Dear Jeff,
Don't know if you've read the whole thread but I had written earlier re the keeping of the human race to 500 million, and refered to the fact that a famous modern monument, I think in Tennessee has this carved into it.
We are on the brink of 7 billion, which I agree is too many, and especially as there are not enough jobs due to mechanisation.
The powers that be are doing a very good job of systematically reducing the population through the food and water chains etc. In addition there are natural forces at work as well.
My concern is that should the 500 million be achieved, it will be elitist and the whole problem will just continue.
June 4th, 2008 at 7:10 am
good morning, leah, and all who have joined…once again, you are right on the money…love, being loved, etc…
are these not the laws of attraction???
"the secret"…getting back what you give…it is the simplest of basic concepts…yet the hardest one "to get"…
i love this thread…speaking of numbers…in the lower left hand corner of this thread is a number….right now it is 95703…when i first signed on, it was 895–….that means that almost 6000 people have read and/or contributed to this in only 2 weeks…thanks to this thread, and many like them–the word is getting out there!!!! i find that very encouraging and exciting!!!
gotta run for now–more later—please enjoy your day!!!!!
June 4th, 2008 at 7:28 am
Good morning Becky,
Look out for an e-mail from Ian O'Neill, if you want to continue when this thread is finished.
June 4th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Good reads for sure. So let me ask this…is anything supposed to happen on Dec.12th, 2012 that's factual? Is anything proven…I have heard people say we will have complete darkness for 3 days.
June 4th, 2008 at 11:20 am
The interpretation of one of the many Mayan calendars states that there was a "black" sunrise on the morning of the winter solstice.
honestly, no "real" information is available in so much that can be scientifically proven.
I get a "feeling" myself that a civilization that could plot the night sky with two sticks at intersection with alarming accuracy and predict the events of our time with relative accuracy must have some credibility to their interpretation of our solar cycles. Astronomy was one of thier most important elements in life.
As to what will happen….not sure. Too many flimsy stories and not enough consistency to make an accurate observation.
I think something major will happen, once again just a "feeling" I get..
June 4th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
Dear Jeff,
The black sunrise you refer to would be conducive with pole shift. It is said that on the cusp of pole shift, the sun seems to refuse to set on the day side of Earth and therefore seems to refuse to rise on the night side of Earth.
June 4th, 2008 at 11:55 pm
i don't think its the end of the world.. there are thousands of predictions which never become true. Well i never believe such miss thoughts.. but i wish "make it true".
June 5th, 2008 at 3:12 am
I'm sure 2012 isn't the end,the planet Nibry will leave our Solar System for 1 second,that planet is going with the speed of the light,trust me.On every 2000 years that's happend.What happend on 12 A.D,what happend on 1988 B.C,what happend on 3988B.C?Nothing.So,2012 isn't the end.Yes.
June 5th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Well , here we are just 4 years away from what? Cant tell can we ? Cause the Spainish killers of over 800,000 men women and children destroyed the answer. True we grow near a black hole in a gravity area that could be violent. I believe whatever occures will happen, after all they got a year down to the ,000 decimal. You must remember that the intel of this means that they didnt think it up., so who did ???????????????????
June 5th, 2008 at 9:45 pm
lil A,,,,just what does yours stand for? Seeing how you singled me out-care to visit a bit?
June 5th, 2008 at 11:50 pm
wait a minute…the mayans did not build the pyramids! It was the aliens that came with their technological knowledge. The rocks were way to heavy for any mayans to carry so they got samson on board. Obviously samson was real pissed off after he was done with the pyramids cos the rest of the fellas only stood around and watch
June 6th, 2008 at 5:59 am
It will very likely not happen. Although, I will be prepared if it does. Simple as that. It's no less important to prepare yourself for an extended power outage.
June 6th, 2008 at 7:24 am
Hope for the best, Prepare for the worst, And take what comes.
June 6th, 2008 at 8:22 am
I just can't understand that a civilization like the Mayans (as brilliant as they may have been for their era) could know things that our current astronomers and scientists do not know now with all the technology that was not available to the Mayans. This is why I am optimistic that this occurrence will not take place. Better chance we get hit with a large rock at some point in my opinion.
June 6th, 2008 at 8:53 am
One day there will be a generation that through archeology etc , say "Wow ! Just how did folks in the 21st century know and manage to do all that, considering how primitive they must have been."
Obviously this would be the opinion, as few or none of our equiptment will have survived bio-degration. Just 1 thousand years down the road even plastics will leave virtually no trace. Now ask, what might ancient civilisations had that have been re-processed by nature?
June 6th, 2008 at 8:54 am
good morning!!!
had another thought…if we sit and look at the universe throught a telescope, we get a very restricted picture…all we see it just what's in the circle…even it the telescope is moved around to focus in on something else…we still only see what's in the circle—-zoom in, zoom out, fine-tune—it's still in the circle…if it's out there, we see it, and we know it's coming at us–WE STILL CAN'T STOP IT!!!
for me, i prefer to quit looking through the telescope, and stand in awe of the entire universe.
there are "tangibles" provided for us through history, past civilizations, and even more current history that give us insight and understanding of things yet to come…again, it is not a matter of "if", but "when"…even with holes that have provided room for subjects of such serious debate, i cannot help but find comfort and hope in them…
June 6th, 2008 at 9:06 am
Leah, I think it's safe to say that no technology was more advanced then after we obtained the use of electricity. I think it's safe to say, this was not discovered by the Mayans.
June 6th, 2008 at 9:06 am
leah–what a great question!!!! now i truly wonder what our footprints will tell them. will we be envied or pitied????
June 6th, 2008 at 9:45 am
Electricity, now there's a thought, ever heard about the Baghdad (Sorry if spelling is wrong) battery ? The Egyptians may have had electricity. Giza Pyramid could have been a power generator.
June 6th, 2008 at 9:51 am
Hi Becky,
Experience has taught me one thing, one good question leads to many truths, but assuption always misleads. Hopefully future generations will think more like Sherlock Holmes, and make less unproductive and wild assumptions as we have done in recent times.
June 6th, 2008 at 10:06 am
Imagine what the reaction was by any of the Amazon Tribes when they were first introduced to 20th century tech, a radio for example. Voices from out of the ether, the voices of the Gods ?
Opinion alone does not make something so.
June 6th, 2008 at 10:11 am
Not to say it's impossible but with all the discoveries that have been made and those that have not I doubt one so complex was discovered and used in two separate eras….but now we are really getting off topic.
June 6th, 2008 at 10:21 am
brian–not to SEPARATE the two eras–but to LINK them…not off the topic at all…everything is relative
June 6th, 2008 at 10:31 am
Dear Brian,
Its not off the topic really. As the archeologists dig deeper, they find more info.
They need to dig deeper, and I don't mean just downward into the earth.
I often wonder if the felling of the Amazon Jungle is actually an active search for ancient sites and relics.
June 6th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
your article just told me a bunch of theories of how the world will end…i was looking for hope…not for disaster. i already know the calender ends 2012, thats pretty much all you have told us….and these people are praising you like you acctually wrote something good.
its like politicial debates! they ask you a question and you dont answer it…you just something obvious but true like "9-11 was bad" and they feed on it…
i dont know why i am bashing you…i am just a little nervous because yes i am one of the idiots who is looking for answers…i just wanna be sure before i pop a seed in my girlfriend and find out that later on that daddies baby is gonna die at age 2!
(im a 16 year old horny male i and dont feel like dying a virgin)
June 7th, 2008 at 12:32 am
hi that a load off my mind because i wes worry and crying because i dont wana die yes im one them people that worry about this i wana go on liveing my life i still did not do anything yet like that 16 year old kid im a virgin and i wana get merried have kids with the person i love but i just to make sure that every thing will be fine thanks you i feel better
June 7th, 2008 at 8:00 am
okay, guys—at 16, you are WAY TOO YOUNG to be having children anyway–you are still just kids yourselves…and these are awfully BIG worries for being so young…you have the gift of life—GO LIVE IT!!!! you cannot let your fears for the future make you stop living today…there is a whole big world out there waiting to be discovered and enjoyed…we are ALL looking for answers, but you have to FIND THEM…they aren't gonna drop out of the sky and land in your lap…live and learn–that is the only way…you have yet to learn that no matter what happens, everything is still going to be okay…
worrying about it isn't going to change a thing…whatever will be, will be…please do not be afraid to live–or die.
June 7th, 2008 at 9:55 am
Hahaha this iss so gay NOBODY knows when the world is going to end sooo get a life and quit trying unless you can phone god and ask.. seriously get a life….
June 7th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Well I have some questions:
1. Are Mayans more intellignent than that of present scientists?
2. If suppose world is going to end on 12 Dec 2012, than what are the events that took place?
3. For what we are waiting, lets move on to some other planet/location?
June 8th, 2008 at 12:35 am
Heheheheehe…you guys still here? HHHHHHHAHAAHAHAHH I went to Asia for 3 weeks, come back and you're still arguing over boogy boogy? WOW, that's …that's pitiful, …but funny.
June 8th, 2008 at 12:36 am
Ian, you're a trouble maker.
Thanks.
June 8th, 2008 at 4:45 am
Hello Kurtisle,
Hope your trip was good. Do you mind me asking you which part of Asia you went to ?
June 8th, 2008 at 8:54 am
i don't know if the mayans were "smarter"-but face it, for their times, they were much more advanced–and their legacy has even our most advanced thinkers scratching their heads…
as for the signs of the times, and what we are to be looking for??? one word that comes to my mind is CHAOS…
i do not think moving to another planet would solve a thing…except to promote the destruction of another planet…we have not yet learned from our mistakes here on planet earth…
June 8th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
Hello to everyone!
I' ve been reeding this stuff,and I don't mean just this blog for som time now.
It has been published a lots of truths,half-thruths and lies,even insults.
The point is,don't try to convince anyone to anything,because they will go on as before.
My personal opinion is that we NEED this positive change,and ASAP.
This world has always been full of evil people and black souls,but we came to the point when we must stop and think.
You all know what is your biggest problem.
Try to face it,not to panic over some date.
As buddist monks say:if you can't solve the problem,it's pointless to wory.If you CAN,you will do it,and,again,it's pointless to worry.
Oopss,it's too long,I think.Sorry.
Best wishes to everyone.
Live freely and be kind to thy neighbour.
June 9th, 2008 at 5:15 am
Dear Author ,
Please tell me , does NASA know about 2012, do they just not let us prepare?
Is it true ? Is Nibiru , Planet X is going to be seen between 2010 and 2012? Please tell me , shall we believe the Mayan Calendar or not.
My personal curious question.
Dan.
June 9th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Hi and thanks for submitting this article you really made me feel better about this whole thing. I mean people thought that the world was going to end in 2000 and when that didn't happen people said 6-6-06. So I highly doubt that this doomsday is true!
Thanks again!
Live, Laugh, Love
p.s. I have a question for ian, are you are real scientest??
June 9th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
Wow, this thread is really long! Sorry I can't respond to everyone's thoughts.
To Dan: Your answer can be found in another article I posted: http://www.universetoday.com/2008/05/25/2012-no-planet-x/ – I hope that helps
To natnat: I'm glad the article made you feel better. I think there needs to be more articles out there viewing both sides of the story, not just the doom and gloom of the end of the world. After some research it eventually becomes clear that there is little modern scientific evidence for any of the doomsday scenarios.
And yes, I am a scientist – I have a PhD in solar physics and I am currently looking into further research and lecturing possibilities
Cheers, Ian
June 10th, 2008 at 10:14 pm
It will be funny if something really happens in 2012 though, like insane solar activity or an internet neutrality scare or the US pulls out of Korea or the Kyoto Treaty expires or people stop blindly following the rules and living in fear.
That will be funny, but you still win because the world will be a better place after and you can quickly change your perspective.
June 12th, 2008 at 12:48 am
you seem to put down alot of these so called myths down maybe because you are scared or dont want others to know. who knows the truth will find out and about the y2k if you even remember it wasnt a doomsday. people thought because of the 2000 mark that computers would be fucknig up.
June 12th, 2008 at 2:12 am
If the Mayan civilization still existed, the majority of them would be waking up on Dec. 22, 2012, with the newly aquired enlightment that if they had not drank so much ringing in the new calender year, they would not have woke up with an incredible hangover.
June 12th, 2008 at 6:03 am
Hi, (one more rant and I'm done)
Just one more perspective on the whole 2012 issue, the Mayans and the current state of our planet:
The Mayans (and several other ancient civilizations) had dates of things to come BEFORE 2012. That would lead me to believe that the date is the end of the strife we are building up to right now.
Scientifically speaking (and I'm NOT a scientist so my information is pooled from multiple scientific resources across the net) the only things that are being released is that we will experience a "galactic alignment" with the center of our galaxy and that we will have an intense solar maximum (the solar flares and solar activity is at it's highest at this point and will be greater than we have seen in the past) (Ian 0'Neil – please verify this statement as you have a better perspective of the solar phases through your research) and that alone is enough to cause concern…in 2012.
We are seeing the rift beginning in our world from famine to the skyrocketing oil issue and the unhealthy interest in bio-fuels that compound both the previous two, that’s just a few mainstream issues that I can find (know that there are more..like polar ice melting and permafrost – de-fronsting)
Weather the Mayans were right or wrong, weather a scientist can be believed, the cause and symptom remain the same, that we have no time to screw around with this anymore.
This planet MUST become a global village, the G8 counties must begin diverting their economic debt into healing, not throwing 300 million a day at a war that cannot be won, save escalate into something far greater, when 100's of millions are starving so we can drive our cars. We need that money to be put into healing the mentality of the greater population of this planet, in whatever form works toward a harmony with the environment and its various cultures.
Lastly, I want to speak to those youths who are reading these things and are frightened by them:
No matter what happens, good or bad, we are all in this together, like many others have stated, live your life, one day at a time and learn and grow and find your happiness, no matter what.
June 12th, 2008 at 7:19 am
Hi,,
For the record, the Mayans are alive and well especially in the Yucatan, they even speak their original Mayan language amongst themselves.
We need to change our attitude, stop fighting and share our planet peacefully, especially with all the non human life forms that are the foundation of our existance, providing our food, materials and medicines etc.
The immediate problem is climate and natural events. De-salination of oceans coupled with Green house gases which increase temperature and Ice melt icreasing ocean temperature slows the deep sea currents. Global dimming is often ignored but plays a big part in the overall problem, and is worth reading up on. Should Solar INACTIVITY continue, added to the above points, will lead to cooling, already Earth has cooled 0:75 degrees centigrade in recent times. Naturally other factors such as Volcanic activity play a part in the cooling/heating system of the planet.
We shall see with the passing of time.
To live only for the very very short term future is to live hand to foot. Best to keep all possibilities in mind. That way one is fore warned and therefore fore armed.
June 12th, 2008 at 11:25 am
Leah, I stand corrected. A little off the subject, but your comment made me wonder, what has ever been done to improve the quality of our planet? I'm talking all around the globe. Cleaning up messes we created in the first place don't count. Jeff, you're right, but even if the greater population, by some miracle, all came together, is not going to matter until the people (mostly our government) are who are financing the wars, and here I disagree with you, its not so we can drive our cars, its so THEY CAN CHARGE us these inflated prices, so we can drive our cars, are completely removed. There is no such thing as the government actually caring about improving the quality of our lives, our world. It has no problem destroying the people right along with the planet. As long as their bankroll and oil stocks keep getting bigger.Thats their mentality. Can you imagine just for a second how threatened and terrified most governments would become if the mass population world wide really did become a "global village" ? As for todays youth, from what I see, 98% of them haven't given any serious issues a second thought, much less be frightened. Its all about instant gratification and fuck anybody who gets in their way to achieve it. Who knows what really is going to happen on Dec. 21, 2012, but one thing for sure is if drastic steps aren't taken to perserve and protect this rock we are on , we will most definately see a doomsday. Its just going to be a real long day.
June 12th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Hello Janet Wyatt,
I agree with you re governments. Humans have not done anything to improve the planet
not that Earth/Nature ever needed any improvement. We need to improve as a species.
There is one thing we have accomplished which may seem inconsequencial now, but not in future. That is Music. The beginnings of understanding sound and its frequencies, how to use them, but more importantly how not to use them.
June 12th, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Dear anyone,
It seems as if the author, Ian, is not responding to anyones posts after my last convo with him. Either I am right or he is hiding something. And to Dan, yes NASA does know about 2012. If you haven't realized by now, our own government likes to keep stuff from us.
June 12th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Hello,
2012 is not really the doomsday, the mayans said its the end of this civilization. Its basically the begining of a more evolved humans who can tap into the noosphere.
Its pretty simple to understand once u have tapped in via either, meditation, pranic healing, dancing, or psychedelics.
You can read more on the noosphere
Peace and Love,
Clyde
June 12th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
This is for Becky. Your comment about cutting off oil to Japan being the reason for WWII has got to be one of the most mindboggling statements I have read. We got involved in WWII after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor on Dec. 7, 1941, killing almost 2500 men and destroying a good part of our naval force.It offends and saddens me that when people who don't think twice about saying how they got the right to do this and the right to say that, have absolutely no clue at what a high price was paid for them to have the PRIVILAGE to be able to do so. I'm not trying to mean but get your shit together.
June 12th, 2008 at 11:05 pm
Sorry, off the subject again.
June 13th, 2008 at 3:37 am
I can't wait to see what people will do on 21/12/2012, riots anyone? Lol and what about New Zealand and Australia and all that that get to see "Doomsday" before anyone else, does that mean they'll "die" first or what?
I don't believe it, but anything could happen. For all we know, (this is very random and far fetched) the sun could blow up next Tuesday.
Anythings possible.
June 13th, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Aliens off of Nibiru are coming again!
June 14th, 2008 at 7:59 am
hi, janet wyatt—my observations about WWII were not intended to offend anybody, or ruffle anybody's feathers…it was meant to draw parallel lines between how greed , control for oil, and dirty politics are just as prevelant today as they were in our history…and apparently we have learned nothing from it…we sat and turned a blind eye to everything that was going on in germany–the slaughter of millins of innocent people–the invasion of russia, the dessimation of mainland europe, and the bombing of england…we did not want to get involved…pearl harbor drew us into that war, (prior to that , our government was playing political ping pong–much like we still are today) and even AFTER we got involved, it most certtainly did not stop the tragic loss of lives for anybody…after we got involved, there was normandy, oh yeah, and did you forget hiroshima and nagasaki???
there were more lives lost in WWII than in ALL other wars combined…it was a WORLD war…
i love my country, and like most americans, i would die for it, but i can't help but wonder why we keep making the same mistakes over and over again…we are not blameless–not then, not today—and we are not paying attention to our history, or to the redflags that are flying in our faces every day…we, the united states of america, have the ability and the capacity to be a LEADER amongst nations, not a thorn in the ass of humanity…it is that ability and capacity we should embrace…love, honor and charity all begin at home…
June 14th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I've searched the blog for answers, but found no counter arguments for what the pseudo-scientists are claiming.
Can anyone provide the counter arguments to the following claims:
1) On 12/21/2012, Jupiter will complete another approx. 11.86 year cycle around the Sun, which Dr. Rollin Gillespie (NASA) claims to influence or cause the 11-yr solar activity cycle (i.e., spots, flares, CMEs).
2) On 12/21/2012, Saturn will be on the opposite side of the Sun, opposite Jupiter, also influencing solar activity.
3) On 12/21/2012, our solar system will align itself with the Milxy Way, as opposed to "hovering Over" it, where mass and gravity is greatest, and therefore will also affect our Sun's activity.
4) Where will Earth be in relation to Jupiter and the Sun? Does planet position matter in terms of CMEs trajectories, or do they just eject in every direction vs. in a linear manner?
5) CMEs aside, what are the effects of increased gravity from surrounding stars/planets in the Milxy Way to our planet and life systems?
Does anyone know? Can someone please simply provide the answers objectively?
June 15th, 2008 at 5:58 am
roland–i'll be the first one to step up to the plate and tell you that i don't know…points 1, 2, and 3 are pretty well established…as to earth's postiioning, and the side effects of it all, i'm sorry –i don't have a clue…we'll have to keep searching, or wait and see…wish i could be a little more insightful or objective…sorry!!!
June 15th, 2008 at 6:40 am
Dear Roland,
The websites are out there for you to check out the possible answers to your questions.
Keep in mind that we are all students of life, and none of us are fake/pseudo. Study and knowlege do not live exclusively in schools and universities, and a degree means nothing if the holder passed exams parrot fashion.
We have all aquired so little info to date, that all we really have is opinions, until we discover additional info at which point we modify our opinion. I'm a real good Gemmologist among other things, but that alone was is not enough to gain a better understanding of the cosmos etc I live in.
June 16th, 2008 at 6:32 am
THE WORLD IS NOW ENDING SO DON'T STUDY JUST ENJOY THE LIFE FULLFILL YOUR DREAMS
June 17th, 2008 at 7:35 pm
well i have read from other websites about the world ending… and i have to say, i have been an idiot to believe it.. so to clarify things for myself and for anybody else who is still wondering..
is the world going to end?
are there going to be dramatic changes happening?
your article has really made me feel better about this whole situation, but i just like to ask questions to be sure..
June 17th, 2008 at 7:42 pm
people r saying about alien attack
wat is the relation between–mayan calendar/doomsday/and 21st dec???
THUMBS DOWN 2 himanshu….EARTH wout end….but a huge chage cud come..
no problem we will adopt…pretty quickly
June 17th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
sorry i wanted 2 say…
"whats the relation between—mayan calendar/doomsday/and 21st dec…………………………and ALIENS"..???
June 17th, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Why does the beginning of the Mayan calender start on Aug. 11, 3114 B.C.? My guess is it fit conveniently in someone else's calculations. I would like to point out, even with this date, there was life prior to the beginning of the Mayan calender,so it would be safe to assume there will be life after the end of the Mayan calender. I fail to see where the exixtence of all mankind is governed by this calender.
June 17th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
*existence
June 18th, 2008 at 6:44 pm
I Realy Wish This Would Not Happen If This Does It Would Be Realy Bad So Worried i am go worried
June 19th, 2008 at 6:27 am
People you should check Ian Lungold's welcome to the evolution. He explains how myans where actually studying evolution.
It's really mind blowing lecture.
June 19th, 2008 at 6:57 am
good morning, guys!!!
i can't help but notice that, in spite of all the opinions and ideas that have been presented throughout this thread, we still keep asking for a definitive "yes" or "no" answer….AND THERE JUST ISN'T ONE!!!
is the world gonna end december 21, 2012 at 11:11 am??? probably not…but please define "end"…we can't.
are the aliens coming? they're already here…(just one person's opinion)
my point being, PLEASE STOP for just 5 minutes and take a long serious look at ALL the things that are going on in this world around you…the "end" has already come for so many people…do you believe that just because it's not you, it's not already starting to happen???
please consider our economy…the end has come for so many–they are sitting infinancial ruin…
please consider our fuel supply—the end of our fossil fuel is rapidly approaching.
please consider our food supply…we are burning it up trying to use it as an alternative to fossil fuel…
please consider all the tragic natural disasters that are happening…the earthquakes in china, japan, turkey—and these are just the big ones that we hear about–did you know that EVERY DAY there are hundreds of smaller earthquakes that happen all over the world that don't reek enough havoc for anybody to pay attention to…
please consider the tornadoes, floods and fires in united stated (and worldwide) that have caused 100,000's of people to loose their homes, everything they have lived for, and even their lives…
please remember that hurricane season is right around the corner–no doubt much more disaster and devastation is in store for many…
please consider the use and abuse of our planet earth…global warming, greenhouse gases, filthy enviroments…
please consider how many people we know–family, friends, neighbors–who are already at the "end of their ropes"…
BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, in spite of all this tragedy, PLEASE CONSIDER THE GOODNESS AND KINDNESS that continues to live on in the hearts of ALL MANKIND…therein LIES OUR SALVATION…
nobody is going to hand us answers on a silver platter…finding answers require a small degree of effort…you cannot just go to a specific website or link that says "here are the answers to all your questions", look up the answers, then get on with your busy day…
for me, i have found some answers that i am very comfortable living with…but my answers, most certainly will not answer your questions…you have to find them for yourself… you cannot find an answer to things you cannot control…if you can't control it–stop worrying about it…and focus in on the things you can control and make a difference with…we are sitting in the middle of a tennis match between "cause and effect"…the effects are being felt all over the world…
June 19th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Becky, according to this link I don't see a major increase in earthquake activity. You can also look at the 1990's link below it:
http://neic.usgs.gov/neis/eqlists/eqstats.html
June 19th, 2008 at 9:42 am
One thing I noticed, there are people of all types in this thread. You've got:
1) Objective people
2) Paranoid people
3) Ignorant people
4) Very simple people (sorry)
and lastly….
6) Absolutely crazy people!
June 19th, 2008 at 8:27 pm
this stuff scares me.
June 19th, 2008 at 11:31 pm
Hi Leah,
I was in Vietnam and Laos. I go there a couple times a year to visit my family and friends. I highly recommend it. It renews the spirit.
June 19th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Leah,
Vietnam and Laos have a majority of Buddhists, as I am.
Buddhists believe in the ultimate reality – truth.
No gods, no dogmas…only pure, unadulterated truth.
Going there is a vacation from western thought and religion.
June 20th, 2008 at 3:20 am
Hi Kurtislee,
Such a beautiful part of the world….I'm sure being there is a BRAIN break from the madness and un-truths.
I often wonder, if the peoples of the world did actually know….say about 2012….and there were going to be big changes, both physical and spiritual…..would they become complacent and do nothing……or would they unite and behave more like family ?
June 20th, 2008 at 6:42 am
brian–thank you–may i return the favor???
if you get a chance, please check out
quake.usgs.gov/recent/index.html
…or do a google search on "real time earthquake activity"…you will be amazed…these links measure quake activity in real time…pretty interesting stuff…
just one more thought for today and i will leave you all alone…and this is regarding the mayan calendar, once again…
perhaps the mayan calendar was designed to force us all into a spiritual awakening…
if we knew we were going to die tomorrow, what would we do differently today???
would or family and spouses know just how much we love them? would our family and friends know how much we appreciate them? would we be a little kinder, and much more grateful? would we make amends to those we have wronged? would we have any regrets??? would we go to sleep that last night knowing we had done and been the best we could…or that we had mattered or made a difference???
time is the one thing we take for granted the most—we have tricked ourselves into believing that there is an unlimited supply of it…but like everything else, it, too is running out…did we make it count???
so i ask myself once again…if i knew i was going to die tomorrow, what would i do differently today???
June 20th, 2008 at 10:16 am
That is definately interesting stuff Becky but is that much different than 50 or 100 years ago?
June 20th, 2008 at 9:36 pm
lil a,,where are you?
June 21st, 2008 at 7:12 am
brian–point very well taken…thank you.
just another thought–perhaps the relevance or signifiance comes with being aware…i'm not so sure that 50 or 100 years ago, they were technolologically "able" to track it in real time…that's not to say it wasn't happening, just that we didn't know it was…
June 21st, 2008 at 7:42 am
p.s. brian–that was in reference to tracking the earthquakes–not the spiritual awareness part..
June 21st, 2008 at 10:13 pm
funny thing is- (no bullshit either) I was looking for gold and glory " treasure-spanish treasure" What I found was more than I ever thought or ever dreamed of! Mayan,Aztec,jesuit,spanish,hindu,egyptian,phonecian, and etc ( an to mention the apes- apes with armor, clothes, crowns and carrying things of importance ) All in one area- Now don't you think this to be just a bit odd? I have kept this place secret for ten years now. Only because I found THE HAND OF GOD. Which is a holy monument with writing on stone panels- the past present and the future- IT TALKS OF EVERYTHING! One can learn so much from this place. Just imagine what would happen to it if it were to be let out? ( IT WOULD BE DESTROYED ) But on this panel it shows the final days before judgement day, There are people killing other people some are lifted into the arms of jesus- the others ride a giant serpent into the pit of hell. There is a name there- worn almost completely- BALPH something,,,anyway there is also a date- that date gives reference to the beginning of these last days- 2008,,,NOW I FOUND THIS TEN YEARS AGO!
Anyway- feed on that for awhile
June 21st, 2008 at 10:55 pm
leah,
If you haven't been, I recommend it wholeheartedly.
As for the question posed. I would hope for a united peoples. But, that, alas is believing in fairies and elves. I think, wit the way western religion has taught it's followers, they'd turn "every man for himself". Already, my American and European brothers are exhibiting the "I got mine, you get yours" with respect to climate change. It's sad, but we can not deny truth when it is presented.
I was raised Christian, but I left when I could no longer keep a blind eye to what that faith in particular has and is doing to the earth and it's people.
June 21st, 2008 at 11:59 pm
2012 Unlimited philosophy
1. Humanity and Planet Earth are currently going through a huge change or shift in consciousness and reality perception.
2. The Mayan civilization of Central America was and is the most advanced in relation to time-science knowledge. Their main calendar is the most accurate on the planet. It has never erred. They actually have 22 calendars in total, covering the many timing cycles in the Universe and Solar System. Some of these calendars are yet to be revealed.
3. The Mayan fifth world finished in 1987. The sixth world starts in 2012. So we are currently "between worlds". This time is called the "Apocalypse" or revealing. This means the real truth will be revealed. It is also the time for us to work through "our stuff" individually and collectively.
4. The Mayan sixth world is actually blank. This means it is up to us, as co-creators, to start creating the new world and civilization we want now.
5. The Mayans also say that by 2012-
- we will have gone beyond technology as we know it.
- we will have gone beyond time and money.
- we will have entered the fifth dimension after passing through the fourth dimension
- Planet Earth and the Solar System will come into galactic synchronization with the rest of the Universe.
- Our DNA will be "upgraded" (or reprogrammed) from the centre of our galaxy. (Hunab Ku)
"Everbody on this planet is mutating. Some are more conscious of it than others. But everyone is doing it" – Extraterrestrial Earth Mission.
6. In 2012 the plane of our Solar System will line up exactly with the plane of our Galaxy, the Milky Way. This cycle has taken 26,000 years to complete. Virgil Armstrong also says that two other galaxies will line up with ours at the same time. A cosmic event!
7. Time is actually speeding up (or collapsing). For thousands of years the Schumann Resonance or pulse (heartbeat) of Earth has been 7.83 cycles per second, The military have used this as a very reliable reference. However, since 1980 this resonance has been slowly rising. It is now over 12 cycles per second! This mean there is the equalivant of less than 16 hours per day instead of the old 24 hours. Another intrepetation is – we, or rather Consciousness have been down this same road seven times before over the last 16 billion years. Each of these cycles of Creation runs 20 times faster than the last one. The same amount of Creation is paced 20 times tighter. This is why time seems to be going so fast. It is not "time" but Creation itself that is accelerating. (see Mayan Calendar Central)
8. During the Apocalypse or the time "between worlds" many people will be going through many personal changes. The changes will be many and varied. It is all part of what we came here to learn or experience. Examples of change could be- relationships coming to an end, change of residence or location, change of job or work, shift in attitude or thinking etc.
9. Remember, in any given moment we are making small and large decisions. Each decision is based on LOVE or FEAR. Choose love, follow your intuition, not intellect and follow your passion or "burning inner desire." Go with the flow.
10. Thought forms are very important and affect our everyday life. We create our reality with thought forms. If we think negative thoughts of others this is what we attract. If we think positive thoughts we will attract positive people and events. So be aware of your thoughts and eliminate the unnecessary negative or judgemental ones.
11. Be aware that most of the media is controlled by just a few. Use discernment! Look for the hidden agendas. Why is this information being presented to you? What is "their" real agenda? Is it a case of problemÂreactionÂsolution? Do "they" create a problem so that "we" react and ask for a fix, then "they" offer their solution? The "solution is what "they" really wanted in the first place.
12. Remember almost nothing happens by accident. Almost all "events" are planned by some agency or other. Despite this, it is a very exciting time to be alive!
June 22nd, 2008 at 3:53 am
Am I the only one who would love to see this rumor (sorry, knowledge!) spread more, and more people start believing it.
When a significant chunk of population will start taking 'survival' measures. It would be interesting to see how economics and other social forces react to this, and once its busted how they spring back.
Aint we all bored of 'normal' life? This 2012 thing will surely be biggest entertainment in known human history.
Coming back to main topic – here is why 'I think' people tend to overestimate their forefathers or ancient civilizations.
From the day we are born, we look up to our forefathers. And we have to, as a child is born with no 'knowledge'. So its kind of engraved in most of ours subconscious that the older the civ, the more advanced it would have been.
It takes up sometime for a new-entrant to get to the level of existing knowledge base.
Now once a human ( being or society) is at par with existing knowledge base, it (is supposed to) pick up from there and build on top of it.
That is the only way ( I can think of) humans/life is bound to progress as long as there is a continuity of knowledge flow through ages.
I am skeptical about why few tens or hundreds or thousands of Mayans would be more knowledgeable (collectively) than millions of scientists working harder and harder these days, with even super computers at their disposal.
Besides, if Mayans ( or any other civ) were so advanced, why they couldn't figure out to 'store' their knowledge to be available for later civilizations to use and build upon it.
Also, if they were able to predict 2012, why couldn't they anticipate their own extinction ( as a civilization with their then knowledge base) and take preventive measures.
As a matter of fact, most likely, they couldn't do anything about it and only left for us to guess what they might have been thinking.
On a parting note. Any form of knowledge ( science or religion or occult of anything else) is at best a best-fit equation for the amount of observed and observable data/fact/evidence that humans have at that given point of time.
People use that knowledge/science to figure out the unknowns, or you can say to do prediction work.
It should be looked at with skepticism as why some civilization few millennium back would have had larger knowledge base or better best-fit equations than we have now.
Knowledge can only grow.
In terms of faith – we are supposed to go from darkness to light.
If life manages to live, god lies in future and not in past and anything closer to god that existed before you should be your mother.
June 22nd, 2008 at 5:36 am
Dear Bad Bart,
I would hope that the location you speak of is not known to many, especially those who would use knowlege for personal gain and power.
In reality, it is possible that those types do know the location…satellite cameras etc.
The Grand Canyon e.g. is a no fly zone without permission/license due to an archeological find, after climbers were watched on a satellite camera.
Its all about the aquisition of knowlege…(which is not shared) and using it to change the nature of things…e.g. oil into petroleum etc. Problem is that knowlege is not finite, it is always incomplete…un-whole. The more knowlege one aquires, the more there is yet to be aquired. The goal of all knowlege (Akashic field/hall of records) moves further away the more we learn.
W-holy = Complete, Un-w-holy = Incomplete.
Had Einstein had complete knowlege re E=mc2, he would not have had regrets and said, "BETTER I HAD BEEN A LOCKSMITH", probably keeping the formula to himself.
A little bit of knowlege is a dangerous thing, and just enough to trash the planet.
Knowlege is for understanding the nature of things, not for changing the nature of things….thats God's and natures business.
June 22nd, 2008 at 6:18 pm
you are right mayan calender does not say the world will end it states a new era or begining.(change is coming) the bible states the same thing in revelation. rise and fall of the anti-christ then 1000 years of peace then the return of satan then judgement day
June 22nd, 2008 at 7:42 pm
then we'll see giant robots ahhhhhhhhhhh
th earth isn't coming to an end at all
sheesh
June 22nd, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Here is something else-I have,, A small map carved into stone ( it fits into the palm of my hand ) Anyway- I found it on the backside of the mayan site. Then I followed it 40 miles to another location which happened to match up- almost to perfect! But then I went on another 8 miles to another site. It is at this site which intrigues me more. As it can be seen from space. This small map is fractal! HOLY COW!
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:27 am
That was very good article indeed.
I have been hearing about this for sometime now.
I am not sure what Mayan’s originally predicted nor am I sure of how best the interpretation was done?
Every now and then lost / old civilization has either prophesized or we have interpreted them as prophesies about the "End of the world"
What always comes to mind the striking similarity of thoughts; “then†and “nowâ€! We always tend to think "there is an end!â€
Without basing my thoughts on any scientific evidences I am in an opinion that everything has a cycle as our life itself!
Civilizations have come and gone; flourished and destroyed.
What ever could be argument, they are not there today.
There is an end!
It could be water management problems, wars, oil crisis, food crisis, ozone layer depletion, new and unknown disease….. Many more….
So why worry…
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:01 am
GREAT STUFF– you guys!!!!!
wonderful thoughts and insights…thank you so much for sharing …
these are truly exciting times we are living in…
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:44 am
No Doomsday in 2012 … Maybe ! Big Change coming with the winter solstice in 2012 … YES ! It's not just the Mayan Calendar ending on 21 12 2012 … There is more science and galactic activity associated with the prophecy !
Please get Daniel Pinchbeck's 2012 The Return of Quetzalcoatl and give it an open minded read !
Anything is possible ! I am hoping for all the positive changes we need to build a better, stronger and happier world for all ! Doomsday or a blissful transition to the golden age … either way i embrace this change for i know what is to come is a time of peace and love !
((( Om Namah Shivaya )))
June 23rd, 2008 at 12:11 pm
u may b right about the mayan calender but there is much more to know. view this page for a scientific doomsday. http://www.viewzone.com/endtime.html
June 23rd, 2008 at 1:06 pm
Actually it is prophesied in the Bible that God's administration for salvation will be complete by the year 2012. Of course, none of you will believe it, but it is true nonetheless.
The reason we hear of all this "2012" talk is because it is the fulfillment of prophecy. First coming Christ Jesus said that if God's people are quiet, the stones will cry out.
Second coming Christ has come in these last days in fulfillment with all of the prophecies in the Bible.
Those who make God their dwelling through the Passover of the New Covenant will be saved. It is sad that most people will be destroyed, but God forsakes the many to make his glory known to those he chose to save before the creation of the physical realm.
June 23rd, 2008 at 5:47 pm
thoughts:
Time can not end…12.21.08 + 1.00 = 12.22.08
13.00.00.00 + 1.00 = 13.00.00.01
Idiots + 1.00 = Idiots
June 23rd, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Damn ! I already maxed out my credit cards !
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Did you know there is a place in one of the western states ( can't tell you where-got to keep it safe for now) But on top of this high mountain peak there is a giant carving- hundreds of feet long. ( into granite ) Of an ape. He wears a headress, ear rings which are triangles with circles on each point. Wears a long robe and in his hands he holds a box.
This is very old! Imagine what would happen should that place get to be well known- distruction most likely
June 24th, 2008 at 4:18 am
Dear Bad Bart,
James Mills found a glowing stone/tablet in Belize. Carved on it were locations as yet undiscovered.
Like the carving of the Ape, it depends on who finds these things and what their motivation is…malevolent or benevolent….destructive or creative, as to whether they should be kept secret or used for the betterment of Earth.
So many artifacts and ancient knowlege has fallen into the hands of those who are eager to use them without due consideration beforehand.
June 24th, 2008 at 7:36 am
i belive there is something different with this prediction by the Mayans. i keep seeing the numbers 1212 on the tv the clock and dreams im not that worried but some times it becomes crazy even wakeing up at night at 12:12 pm so i googled this problem and was taken to a site with other people with the same thing and they started talking about crystal skulls(i felt strange becuse its what i have dreams about but new nothing of this)so i looked it up !!email me with any questions
June 24th, 2008 at 8:04 am
You make alot of good points but forget to address one major point. The mayan's were great astrologers, and the prediction says a large black hole will open in the sky on that day. That is also the day that The earth, sun and the black hole in the center of the milkyway are in perfect alinment. Such gravitaional force could cause the gravitational north and south poles to shift in the matter of hours, causing world wide descruction. Couple that with the reseting of the mayan calendar and their "clever" mathematical schematic which could predict lunar eclipses fior centuries out, there is a case to be made. (The Mayan calendar also predicted the exact day the spanish arrived at their Civilization)
June 24th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Dear Tray,
Any thoughts on the crystal skulls would be appreciated. Thank you.
June 24th, 2008 at 9:38 am
my thoughts on the crystal skulls is that the 13 skulls will soon be found and there use will soon become clear its just not the right time and the material there used from( same as computer chips)might hold some clues but im not up to date on this
June 24th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Haha for all we know they just got bored with the calendar and quit. I never understood how anyone could think that a long dead race of people can predict doom
June 24th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
jesus… you are all friggin idiots…
the writer forgot to mention the main point he was trying to disprove. Nothing that supports his theory is written here.
June 24th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Jim: The Mayans sucked at astronomy. The calendar was fixed and did not account for leap years/seconds/days, which is why it was only slightly accurate for 52 years at a time. All your other assertions are myths.
To the Ian: the begin date was a "best guess" by Thompson, et al. There is no scientific or historical evidence that it corresponds to an actual date on our current, vastly more accurate calendars.
Ergo, the supposed "end date" of the Mayan calendar could be off by dozens, hundreds, or thousands of years. And any Mayan "astronomer finding himself alive today using his calendar would be looking for Sagittarius and finding Orion instead. The great myth here is that the Mayans were "great astronomers".
June 25th, 2008 at 5:28 am
Thanks for explaination
really good stuff.
June 25th, 2008 at 9:25 am
I don't know about 2012, but considering the rise of violence, hatred, greed along with natural and man-made disasters like scarcity of oil, earthquakes, floods etc, it seems that the world is going to start anew. And for something to start from the beginning, it has to come back to the zero level. So, the old world may see its end in some sense.After all, how long can Mother Earth sustain the injuries inflicted on her by humans? There is a limit after which it will retaliate.
June 25th, 2008 at 12:42 pm
You guys are being quite naive I believe. You should at least look into the possiblity of SOMETHING happening. For the first time in the history of the world we are going to be exactly lined up with the center of the Milky Way, at 11:11am on December 21, 2012. How is anyone to know what will happen, when something like this has never happened before? Keep you minds open to the possiblity, and dont just blocked it out because you are scared or stubborn.
June 25th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
For the first time today a friend I have known all my life told me her worries regading this subject matter.
I felt very sad that an intelligent woman would be afraid of such nonscence. This not to detract from People's belief's but really……………
What shocked me even more was all of the people feeding on this fear!
The negative impact of this is if people buy into this theory is that some people will ditch their responsibilites, create themselves debt, and not really worry about the future!
To hear that children in school's think they are going to die is horrific!
A calander is ending……….this does mean the end of the world.
If people wish to find religion then that's not a negative thing, it can be a great source of moral grounding, a group support system among other things. Personally its not for me. But any church that tries to recruit people on the basis of fear regarding planet X I suggest you reconsider your options!
I applaud all of you that have bought this topic into the open and given people some rational. Fear has always in history been a source of control over the masses. The problem with history is that translation and interpretation over hundreds of years has been changed in context and meaning. I feel very sad that people will lose sleep over this. Personally on that predicted date, I will be smiling as all the believers of this theory await their predicted doom. But what wil make me smile even more will be the following morning when they all give a huge sigh of relief!
June 25th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
*A calander is ending……….this does mean the end of the world.
S/B A calander is ending……….this does not mean the end of the world
typo error sorry
June 26th, 2008 at 1:29 am
so is the earth going to end
June 26th, 2008 at 1:30 am
is ther eny way off not geting blow up like a roket im in school and ther is a big argments a bout this so is it real
June 26th, 2008 at 7:33 am
Poor Darren, I am sure the last thing Ian intended was to make this article a haven for the paranoid. People, we could get hit by a giant rock tomorrow…is there any point in panicking? Unless you hear real scientific evidence continue to live your lives and don't waste a moment. You will be mad at your selves when the date passes and you have spent the last 4 years worrying about this and knowing you have lost years off your life from the stress alone. Our brain is a pwerful thing…keeping it rational is not always easy especially in this hectic world. Take some deep breaths and enjoy your lives!
June 26th, 2008 at 8:26 am
The prophecy of 2012 does not predict the End of the World. It predicts the End of the World as we know it, wich if completly different. Just do some research about Ufo recents sightings, recent crop circles and Arecibo message and you will understand what the "beggining of the Age of Enlightment" means. Something will happen 21/12/12, not some kind of armeggedon but something that will change our civilisation for ever.
June 26th, 2008 at 9:16 am
I'm so sick of being told different ways that I could die.
Something colliding with earth, something else about calendars ending, global warming, terrorism, and whatever else….
Lovely.
I'm 17… I want to be told about the joys in life, things that I have to look forward to.
Not how I'm going to apparently have my life cut short by something I have no control over, whether its true or not.
June 26th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Buck….you have no way of knowing this and until you have something concrete and some proof you sound like a deranged kook.
June 26th, 2008 at 10:11 am
life is to enjoy thinking of thes events to come is bad for your health ! but for some of us we have no choice and take these events seriously i keeps seeing the numbers 12:12 every were i look it allways 12 12 and that led me on this path now my dreams play a part and it seams im not the only one im only young and find some of this a bit freaky the skulls hold some truth and untill the time it wont be relized by the weak minded
June 26th, 2008 at 10:47 am
1 of all is not the end of the world ,yet but there are going to be a lot of rapid changes in nature , lets youst say that we have become like a virus for the planet…2 of all youst wait
June 26th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
I'm one of these so-called "scare-mongering publishers" and I'm somewhat offended to be called an idiot by so many people through the tubes of the internet. I'm just a kid in high school who has spent the past two years researching just about everything regarding the 2012 theory and have read several books such as, Apocalypse: 2012 by Joseph E. Lawrence, and The Science and Ethics of Human Extinction by John Leslie… these are just two out of many books I've read about the issue but I feel that they most accurately and intelligently interpret the facts.
Reading one well-written article (kudos to the author) does not disprove something that may or may not occur. All we can do until the night of December 21, 2012 is speculate. Until then, please refrain from calling people like me an idiot.
June 26th, 2008 at 9:11 pm
actually its human nature to incline towards negativity……i think there is no such doomsday ….these are all rumors and will end in 2008 itself ….ppl will forget everything ..nobody can challenge the end date of earth …..only mayan prophecy is not ultimate.
undoubtedly natural calamities has increased ….but this doesn't decide an expiry date of the planet within 4 years ………
I belong to a country(India)where superstitions are intense ……..inspite of all this we don't have any ancient calender that claims the end day of earth.
June 26th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
What if the Mayans knew something that we don't? Let's just say for the sake of playing devils advocate that the calendar stops where it does because they were unsure as to where the stars would be in the heavens after the 2012 winter solstice. There is evidence TODAY of several polar shifts in earths past, this cannot be denied. So lets just say again for the sake of argument that their calendar simply predicts when the next shift will occur. Is this more acceptabe as a point of view? Nothing supernatural, no Nibiru, no Anunnaki, nothing political or religious. Pure mathematical science. That calendar does show advanced knowledge of the skies in terms of showing accurate lunar eclipses and other astronomical facts hundreds of years in advance. So if we look at it this way……Wow!!! Way scary!!!! People have translated it's meaning for their convenience. But don't compare that to a Y2K bug because the analogy does not fit. It's easy to sit back and mention all the times people have cried wolf but bear in mind that the Mayan calendar is older than computers so to mention it in the same sentence as a Y2K bug seems assinine to say the least.
Let me tell you guys something. When I get up in the morning and I put on CNN. I'm already scared of what I may see. The global erratic weather patterns and earthquakes alone are scary stuff. If we're headed to a polar shift then I guess I won't have to put on CNN because we will all be a part of what is called today, an Event. Maybe thats what the Mayans were timing. The next earth Event.
Lets not be scared of that though. We still have to worry about Israel attacking Iran and Iran nuking Israel and then Israel and the USA nuking Iran and all that other good stuff in th years preceeding 2012.
Lets not be scared though. Lets be happy in this wonderful world we live in!!!
-R-
June 27th, 2008 at 1:52 am
Apparently i saw a documentry where the world is suppose to end but it could be changed by the way we live or something like that. i think it was some guy called edgar casey or somehting who had visions ont it. might wanna read up on him. Also these saint or pope who said there were 111 popes and were currently with the 111th pope. Also read about einstein he said after honey bees would die we would have 4 years to live, but i dont think honey bees are gonna go anytiem soon
June 27th, 2008 at 1:54 am
The Mayans used integer arithmetic for all their calculations. They never divided the day into a unit less than 1, i.e. on 24 hour-day for the time period. The day was the smallest unit of time.
OTOH, the Mayans used very large integers for calcuating time. They had names that were in the billions and trillions of days .
I believe the Long Count would have not ended in 2012, it would have continued past the 13th baktun and perhaps into infinity.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:52 am
its still a prediction and if the calculation is out the mayans still said in 2012 the skys will forcomb eruption and the only passage to enlightment is to use the 13 skulls
June 27th, 2008 at 6:16 am
Hi,
Each of the 13 crystal skulls/heads might be a representation of the 13 tribes of man. If all tribes were to come together….. peace could break out and we would move forward as one without the negativity and resource depletion of war.
Aside from the problems caused by natural climate changes, influences from space included…..there are 3 major problems NOW….WATER, FOOD, ENERGY/FUEL. These problems need to be resolved now….in order to ensure the future.
One great archeological find….Mayan, Egyptian etc, proving that we NOW are not the first generation of man to know a thing or two….would change the perspective of people today. If there is nothing worth learning from past civilisations…why is so much funding….even from taxes….invested in archeology ?
June 27th, 2008 at 7:41 am
UPDOC…
13.000.000 + 1.00 = 14.000.000
IT WOULD ONLY EQUAL 13.000.001 if you added .000.001
idiots +1 still = idiots + 1….idiots, of course being the unknown variable…
how sad that we can't embrace each day with/as a wake-up call…rather that living in fear and desperation just waiting for that rude awakening…
June 27th, 2008 at 7:45 am
Leah-
I agree with you LEAH.
I have seen some things that we as a people can not recreate as of yet. But somewhere from the past someone else had this knowledge!
bart
June 27th, 2008 at 7:57 am
my decimal points are off, there–i apologize for being the +1 idiot
June 27th, 2008 at 9:17 am
Hi Bad Bart,
Yup…they want the knowlege so badly, (for their own use…not for the benefit of all life) there is a willingness to sacrifice everything in order to get it.
Seems to me you got the big picture too. Be well, Leah
June 27th, 2008 at 9:23 am
Becky… how are you ?
June 27th, 2008 at 11:00 am
leah
whom are you leah?
June 27th, 2008 at 11:18 am
Hi Bad Bart,
Just someone that studies and does the math. I am no one in particular.
June 27th, 2008 at 11:27 am
Bad Bart, you sound like a real life Indiana Jones…..much more interesting than I am.
June 27th, 2008 at 3:42 pm
leah
why? want to talk more off this site? look at some things I have seen? up to you?
check back tomorrow for your reply
June 27th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
Bad Bart,
Sounds good. Thank you.
Leah
June 27th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
Leah and Bart sitting in a tree!!!
Just kidding! A little levity never hurts.
You know if you study the Mayan culture or go even further back to the Sumerian culture of Mesopotamia which is actually where civilization is said to have begun. These people didn't take credit for discovering their math or calendars or laws. They were the first at over 100 things including marriage contracts, the wheel, schools. All kinds of first. But they gave credit to their Gods. They said that their Gods gave them all that knowledge. If you were to look into this stuff, even using the Bible (Genesis 6), you will find that there was some otherworldly interfernece with mans evolution. There was an intervention that actually sped up our understanding as a race. This was discovered in the over 25,000 clay tablets with writing that were dug up in the near east.
The problem is that we don't believe in Gods or aliens or anything these days. We prefer to believe what we've been taught in the last two hundred years by established religion and our so-called science. The same science that still cannot explain how the pyramids were constructed. There are so many things we don't know. So many books and writings that were destroyed by the Christians when they burned the Greek library at Alexandria in Egypt. So many things that were destroyed when the Spanish invaded the Americas and just killed so many for gold and what they called paganism.
Its really sad. Its easy to call someone an idiot because you don't share their belief. Think about this though. There was a time when the Catholic Church would have you killed for saying that the Earth was round. The Spanish thought that they were so much more advanced than the S. Americans when in fact we now know that the Mayans were much more knowledgeable in astronomy and many other scientific aspects. The Spaniards were actually looking for the fountain of youth as was Christobal Colon when they came to the new world. And now that we know all this. Who was the actual idiot? They were invaders, thieves and killers. I imagine that when they they spoke amongst themselves they called the Mayans idiots too.
Its sad that we resort to calling people names just because we don't share their beliefs. How stupid some of you would feel if you turned on CNN and learned that there was a Texas sized comet scheduled to reach Earth around December 21st 2012 and that there was nothing to be done about it. Oh but wait. They won't say anything because it would cause a panic and where would that fit in the comfort zone of our perceived reality? Nope, lets just stay in our wonderful little world!!
No Fear is a brand name folks. We're all afraid sometimes. Don't call people names just because you don't share their same fears or because you can count to a higher number than them. Theres always someone out there that can count higher than you and that makes you an idiot to them. So if you look at it that way. we're all idiots.
-Rico-
June 28th, 2008 at 5:46 am
Leah sounds like she no's what she is talking about and she allways listens to others opinions good job leah
)
June 28th, 2008 at 6:17 am
HI Ricochet,
Levity…always good. Fountain of youth….no doubt the pharmaceutical companies would want to patent it….if they have not already….gene patenting etc.
The Emerald Tablets, it is said were sent to the Mayans by Thoth…. apparently retrieved early 1900's and returned to Egypt. Its said the tablets will help find the Hall of Records….said to be all knowlege. All knowlege would include the formula for the Fountain of youth. The Akashic FIELD is what is being activly sought….through the ages.
No doubt that the human race had some help or a kick start from outside forces. The carvings at Abydos in Egypt of technological hardware…. cave paintings etc of entities in space suits all proove that;
1. Something happened in the past
2. OR something would happen in the future.
Whether either or both 1 and 2 are correct….its astounding either way. There are no idiots in my eyes, just varying degrees of wisdom.
Be well.
Leah
June 28th, 2008 at 9:31 am
This blog reads like a trip down Route 66…you never know who you'll meet or what you'll talk about. Regarding the author's original discussion, I am a disciple of Occam's Razor – All Things Considered, The Simplest Solution Is The Best – and as such, offer this for discussion. First, however, you have to change your frame of reference towards the prehistoric cultures that have been discussed and from whom all this speculation came from – Mayans, Aztecs, etc. – assume their life, if you will. Their knowledge base, social, political and religious structure, etc, have to be the "eyes you see through" – Occam's thought process cannot be skewed by our modern precepts (Thats correct, as hard as it may seem, the Mayans did not text message each other every 15 seconds, or get in trouble for not putting the seat down on the toilet, or not be able to contemplate the universe because their kids had soccer practice in 20 minutes AND they had to get to the grocery store and library before the kid was done)…If you were a Mayan, what did you do all day? What did you think when you looked up in the night sky? (a night sky that was not washed out by the lights of LA). When you saw a simple meteor streak across the sky, what did you think it was? How could you possibly KNOW what it was? Or a lightning bolt, earthquake tremor, lunar eclipse, etc, etc, etc??? Every civilization has a select few that dictate to the masses – the old 80/20 rule – so the masses looked to the select few for explanations for all this. If you were the 20%, how would explain it? Occam's Razor says that you had no more insight about it than anyone else, but because you were a little smarter you saw it as an opportunity to separate yourself from the masses (say power grab), so you offer up a line of BS. And BS becomes the way of life (why do kids today wear pants that hang down to their knees? – because the HAVE to). Which brings me to the calendar. You (the Mayan Elite) decide you need a calender to track time against harvest, the annual shareholders meeting, the Saturday Night Bloodletting and Sacrifice Dance, etc. Did you REALLY look 5, 6, 7,000 years in the future and decide that, based on your precise knowledge that a comet / meteor / Planet X that you couldn't see existed, and, applying your PhD in Calculating Orbits of Planetary Bodies, determined that there was no sense in designing the calendar to go any further than December 21, 2012 because on that date that baby was going to slam into the Earth and Ruin Christmas??? Nah. OCCAM'S RAZOR RULES.
June 28th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Occams razor…..how would it explain that many civilisations, world wide were very capable in Astronomy ? Or were some of these peoples in contact with eachother…all with a common plan for world domination of the 80% by the 20% ?
I also like the Sherlock Holmes theory that….Once you have eliminated all plausible possibilities….what remains, no matter how impossible….must be the truth.
June 28th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Dear Tray,
Thank you for your kindness.
June 28th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Leah,
Any civilization's knowledge in something observable doesn't have to be explained by Occam's Razor, or any thing else for that matter. You just can't give them more credit than they deserve. Let me give you an example. Let's say you and I are Mayans and we are walking home Saturday night from the Bloodletting and Sacrifice Dance when we look up into the night sky and see a strange light. With a tail on it, no less. (this object will come to be known as Halley's Comet). Can either of us explain it? No – at least not for what it REALLY is or WHY it really is. Along comes one of the Elites. We ask him/her. They tell us it is the god of so and so. We say "no kidding you must be really smart and we're listening to you from now on". Bingo, they have us. Do you think he could tell us that it would be back in exactly 76.4 years? No chance because planetary physics and the discovery of gravity (which controls orbits) hasn't happened yet. The required math just doesn't exist yet. Not to mention that it has been a singular observation, and if it HAD been seen by someone else 76.4 years earlier, they probably didn't put 2 and 2 together. That being said, all the observations we Mayans CAN make of short term cyclical events (moon phases, day/night, seasons, etc) can be reasonably predicted into the future because we can see them happening over and over. We see the WHAT and the WHEN, but we really don't get the WHY. Today, this is basic planetary physics. To say they knew more advanced astronomy than we do is to say we know more than future generations will. Doesn't make sense. Ancient civilizations certainly knew astronomy, but only to the extent of the knowledge base of the day. As far as the conspiracy of the 20% over the 80%, just look at history. It is nothing of not a litany of people dominating others. The Persians, Macedonians, Romans, Mongols, Mings, the 20th century Japanese, Nazis, communist Chinese and Soviets are just a few empires off the top of my head that lived for domination of others. Unfortunately, it seems to be the basic nature of many cultures.
I too, am a Sherlock Holmes fan – please don't confuse simplicity with the truth. The truth can certainly be complicated, I agree. Mysticism is what people default to when they cannot discover the truth.
I enjoy your commentary, Leah, you make us think. In the words of Mr. Holmes, Pray continue…..
June 28th, 2008 at 11:43 am
Let me tell you about advances- There are temples which hide inside illusions. Illusions we in todays world could never even begin to copy!
As well as hand held maps! Let me give you an example: I have a map which fits into the palm of my hand. Apon this map are great secrets to these places. ( It is called- the eastern key and one of the four winds "eastern wind " ) Anyway- I followed this map 40 miles to an exact copy of the map- then I went on another 8 miles to another spot. At this spot, if you google earth, you will see the exact things which are on this map. Now tell me how it is that they were able to view this from so high in the sky? Let alone create such a map? This map was found near such mayan things as well.
give me another route to explain this?
June 28th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Leah-
I don't want to share this with everyone- all though I should share it- it was meant for everyone- how does one do this an not get killed?
In this site alone there are those whom would prey apon this stuff, no one can be trusted! Not even those close to me!
WHAT A NIGHTMARE!
June 28th, 2008 at 11:51 am
I spent ten years working on the stuff I found. Two years on one entrance alone. Why? For gold and glory- A treasure hunter I am. But what I found was so much much more.
June 28th, 2008 at 1:12 pm
OskieJr
Dude, just read Genesis 6 in the Bible and then Google Anunnaki. Then you can tell us about the Mayan elites. What is being said here is that there was probably outside intervention within our evolution. These were not elite people, these were superior beings.
You should also read the Enuma Elish and Zecharia Sitchins translations of it. This may help explain your comets. Man has forgotten more than he now knows, either that or it has systematically been hidden by those in power. This is what I believe anyway. As for your 80-20 theory. Heres another that you may want to apply to it. Suppose that there are still descendants on earth or semi-devine beings that are in your 20 percentile. They wouldn't actually tell us would they? I'm not making this stuff up as I go along. These are things that I have actually run across in my own personal searches for truth. Read the "Earth Chronicles" by Sitchin. Then read anything you can get your hands on about fallen angels or the Sons of God. You may wish you'd taken the blue pill after reading that stuff. If you look really really close at what the ancients belived in terms of their gods you may start feeling some of the fear the so-called idiots are trying to instill in you when they talk about 2012's impending earth changes. It's easy to say you don't believe in ghost…Until you actually see one. Then where does that leave your reality? All those years that you thought were real and then you find that you were in the matrix. Don't get me wrong, I'm just spouting analogies here. But you should always leave some room for the others point of view in your ideas. Never be too quick to say " he's nuts or she's nuts" just because their beliefs don't tie in with yours. By the way Leah. In Sitchins translations Thoth was actually EA/Enki from the Sumerian pantheon. He was the snake in the creation story according to tablets discovered in the near east. It all makes excellent reading.
I recomment the Sitchin books "The Earth Chronicles" to everyone in this forum. It's six books starting with "The 12th Planet".
-Rico-
June 28th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Bad Bart,
Let me ask you a question that should help you answer your own question. If a construction company has to build a perfectly straight road 40 miles long, or an expressway on-ramp perfectly circular in shape and exactly 1,200 feet in diameter, is the construction of these directed by someone in a plane 5,000 feet above the construction site? Answer that and you have answered your own question. (hint – the construction company did NOT sub-contract to an alien engineering firm)
June 28th, 2008 at 1:40 pm
Rico,
I never said anyone was nuts. I respect everyone's opinions to the extent they respect mine. I am merely playing devil's advocate and saying simplicity, common sense and logic generally explain the "unexplainable" as well as alien/supernatural/mystical explanations do. The premise of agreeing to disagree is what creates great debate and the generation of ideas and answers.
June 28th, 2008 at 1:54 pm
OskieJr
I don't understand something. You say that "you have to look through the eyes of the prehistoric races without your thoughts being skewed ny modern precepts". But then in your statements you do the opposite. You're actually trying to explain things that have never been explained by our most advanced scientist. Take for example the Nazca lines. Tell us how or even why these were made from ground level. Also looking through the eyes of the Sumerians, who said that all their knowledge was given to them by the gods. I'm of the opinion that your thought process in skewed by modern precepts that these are mere myths and legends. This is not what the Sumerians saw. They built temples in which their gods resided. Not to worship but for the actual residence of their gods. They referred to their gods as flying aound in "Celestial Chariots". How would you explain in todays language what a celestial chariot is?
You need to look a little more into these things before dismissing them outright. Tell you what. After you read this. Google Baalbek. Then come back and tell us how these people moved those stones 6 miles, and even better, tell us how they lifted them on top of the others. Modern sience has not been able to duplicate these feats in tests and it's impossible using todays most advanced equipment. So I'll just say right now that you will not post an explanation. This is not to say that you're not an intelligent person. Just that you lack historical facts. Using Occams Razor or whatever logic. You have to include in your thought process what the people that actually built these things said as to how they were built. And they said that there was otherworldly help. So when you try to explain these phenomena, keep in mind what they saw through their own eyes.
Sometimes when we don't WANT to believe something, we complicate the simplest explanation ourselves.
-Rico-
June 28th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
OskieJr
Oh no man. I'm not saying you called anyone nuts. It's just that reading your post I get that impression. It's like. You make it sound like it's impossible for Aliens to have been involved in anything. And you have to agree that it's not impossible. This is all in fun and entertainment otherwise I would'nt be here typing and I'm sure you wouldn't either. But seriously. Look that stuff up and I'm telling you it'll start you thinking slightly different with regards to your beliefs. It's scary stuff because it makes you wonder why this knowledge isn't common. All those things I mentioned with the exception of the Sitchin books can be Googled. I'm not making anything up here. You can actually Google Sitchin and get an idea of what his books are about too. But they make better reading.
Keep posting the devils advocate stuff. It makes good reading too.
-Rico-
June 28th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Rico,
What I'm trying to say is try to transport yourself back into their shoes, their time, know only what they knew at that time. (the average Mayan who woke up, worked, ate and went to bed). A phenomenon that he observed may be totally unexplainable based on what he knows. To us, here and now, the event may be totally simple – the appearance of Halley's comet, for example – we read it in the papers, heard it on the news, we knew it was coming and expected it…..a no brainer. HIS explanation of it, whether it was arrived at by him or told to him by one of the 20% / Elite / Leaders / Rulers of the time may be more….wondrous. Now you have 2 explanations for the same thing, both possible but only one can be right. There certainly are bits and pieces of tantalizing things from ancient civilizations that beg to be explained in other-worldly terms rather than in simple terms, and I agree that there are symbols, etc that may be difficult to explain in the latter terms right now, but it does make for great conversation. To be continued….
June 28th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
No- it is more fractal, but yet- why?
June 28th, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Lots been going on while I was at a wedding.
Dear OskieJr,
Forgive me…I was agreeing with you re the 80/20…elite etc. (Today the split is 99/1). I have a habit of phrasing comments as questions.
One thing is now safe to say, that those living even 8000BCE were not the first humans and will have had knowlege/observations handed down from previous generations. Depending on how this knowlege was perceived/understood, so the Mayans etc will have formed their own theories, much as we do today. They will have fused their own observations with their inherited knowlege. Maybe the Mayans had been handed down info re Halley's Comet, and knew when it would return…..likewise with other cyclical cosmic events.
We today live with suppositions, conjectures, theories and postulations no less than people 6000 years ago. The more we observe the more we must alter our perceptions.
The trick is to weed out the embelishments from myth and legend to find the truth, even if it is only one word. Each myth and legend contains facts…..its why they survived the rigours of time….something in them rings true.
Life has tought me one thing…NEVER SAY NEVER.
June 28th, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Everything has an ending. I honestly dont think that 2012 will be the end of the world mainly because of this article and hope.
But I do believe humanity will die off in time. Slowly but surely. Not because of the milky way and crap like that. But becuase of us killing off other species. Our planet has a precise cycle of species and kingdoms. Kill off one species, then another one gets killed off and so on and so forth. Its already begun but nothing drastic. We just need to protect animals and plants so that none of them die off before it gets too bad. Starting with global warming and ending with deforesting of trees.
June 28th, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Dear Bad Bart,
No nightmare necessary. You need to know that Anti Gravity, Cloaking Tech and many more have not been in the realms Sci Fi for a long time now. Its just that it is not for use by the general public. Can you imagine, if people were allowed anti gravity cars….it would be mayhem….so many still choose to ignore road safety etc. It just isn't the time yet for people at large to have some of the tech that exists.
As for your wish to share, there is a right time and of coarse the right people. Only you can know this. If what you know can be used to harm…better to keep it to yourself.
The Hopi Indians would be a good source of advice re such things.
Fractal…mathematics/geometry…thats why.
June 28th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Dear Ricochet,
I'm so glad I accepted the red pill. Much has been with held from the many by the few….but which will eventually come to light.
PS to Bad Bart,
Fractals etc are blueprints/plans/formulas. Don't be frightened by what you know/have.
June 28th, 2008 at 6:46 pm
I just can't resist this one…OH what a tangled web was woven…because their intent was to deceive.
Please don't bite my head off…..I changed it to past tense on purpose.
June 28th, 2008 at 8:14 pm
though your explanation is correct, some people are saying that there is a black hole at the center of the milkyway and sum is moving to the center of the milkyway.
can anyone tell me about this please.
June 28th, 2008 at 10:36 pm
I totally agree with the Mr. Oneil and will share this link with others.
As an historian/astrologer I do have to note that we now approach a time where planets align in a pattern similar to one present at the end of the 1920s/beginning of the 1930s, when the world fell into a global depression and fascist governments arose around the world. I wrote about it here:
http://mundaneastrology.net/bitweaver/blogs/view_post.php?content_id=203
Let me add that I don't think the planets make us do anything. They do help determine earth's orbit and thus determine how we move through space/time.
The planets Saturn, Uranus and Pluto share a similar configuration in 1929 as they do in 2010 and we face similar issues, inspiring my piece.
I don't think the world is about to end, but we sure face some tough decisions.
June 28th, 2008 at 11:24 pm
In Burma. The world ended for over 138,000 people this year alone. When we say the end of the world we don't mean the end of mankind. We mean the end of the world as we know it.
The Biblical deluge was the end of the world as it was known back then.
In my opinion what people are interpreting as the end of the world during the 2012 event is the equivalent of the Biblical deluge. That is why you hear things like "a new beginning" applied to it.
If it's a polar shift, which is probably the best explanation in terms of the scientific conclusions with regards to the scheduled planetary allignment of that date, then it will be pretty nasty. We're talking about earthquakes, unparralleled volcanic activity, sunamis. We're talking about just about everything at once all over the world. There will be no FEMA. There will be no help from anywhere. It's start all over and it'll be very hard for the survivors. There will be survivors. But the upside to this will be (again some levity), that people will be able to grow their own and smoke all day and no one will be able to tell you what you can plant and what you can't anymore
~
Any scientist will tell you that it's not IF we'll be hit by an earth changing asteriod or comet, but WHEN. Well this also applies to a polar shift, it's not an IF, it's a WHEN. Lets just hope that the gods of the Mayans were not the ones that gave them the insight to develope this calendar because if they were then basically we're screwed because these guys were no joke. They traveled far and wide in space and they did know how to read the stars and tell you EXACTLY what was going to happen and when. Understand that the flood story in the Bible was written on those same clay tablets found in Sumer but they were written 2000 years before the Biblical edited-sanctioned version and if you read it you will find that it the occurence was nothing as described in the Bible. You guys should take a walk on the wild side. Take the red pill like Leah did and ride the rollercoaster with us. It's scary but very liberating as well.
Google Utnapishtim and see if you can get a Sitchin version of The Epic of Gilgamish.
Fun stuff.
Leah I'm sorry I don't answer you directly on your points it's just that there is so much of this stuff and I have such limited time to post that I figured it best to just put things out there for people to look up as I think of them while posting.
It's sort of like Bart there though. I can't just come out and say what happened. They have to research this stuff themselves so they can appreciate it when they uncover the deceitfull web that you alluded to in your post. We're not talking about anything mystical. Its science mixed with maybe some extraordinary talents like telepathy, maybe.
Here's an interesting analogy. The internet is actually helping us to undo the consequences for building the tower of Babel. We couldn't understand each other then and we were scattered but not anymore.
Maybe this is a good thing and maybe not. But things are really starting to come out these days. Lots of what was once hidden and forbidden is coming to the light now and we can see it.
If we're not afraid to look. And like that line in Star Wars said – "You have to unlearn what you have learned"
-Rico-
June 29th, 2008 at 8:19 am
Dear Ricochet,
No appologies needed, I understand fully.
What is the best and quickest way I can plug into the 25,000 clay tablets (preferably a reliable internet source).
Likewise there is so much more I could say. I don't fear the fact that all communication is screened and trackable, because I intend no harm to any nor do I wish to rock the boat, as too much change too fast is a killer. However, people need to change for the better just a little faster.
June 29th, 2008 at 8:31 am
Leah,
My bad. EA/Enki wasn't Thoth. Thoth was his son, Ningishzidda. He was also known as Quetzalcoatl and the Greek Hermes.
He was the brother of Marduk who was the equivalent of the Biblical Ba'al. Yahwehs favorite enemy.
Good stuff.
-Rico-
June 29th, 2008 at 9:05 am
Its OK Ricochet, I knew it was an oversight re Thoth, Trismegistus etc. Could also be considered the TRICKSTER.
A few scientific facts for all.
1. Low Sun spot activity = cooling (0.7 Celcius temp drop from Jan 07 to Jan 08)
2. Ice melt dilutes salinity of oceans = cooling by slowing deep oceanic current.
3. Pollution in atmoshere = global dimming blocking sunshine = cooling.
4. Ice core research has confirmed a 12,000 year cycle of warming and cooling….Earth should be cooling now.
In addition there are the unknown effects of alignment with the Galactic plane.
June 29th, 2008 at 9:07 am
all right- i will—-need some background first from you each- email me-jarroljeppesen@yahoo.com
I will show a little bit of what I am talking of- lets say–the HAND OF GOD site–ancient,,or maybe the portal,,,not the mayan nor the aztec,,
June 29th, 2008 at 10:26 am
I just heard on CNN that the North Pole may be ice free this year. Sort of reminds you of the ancient Piri Reis map of Antartica.
Leah, trickster is a good one.
I always liked Ningishzidda's role in all of it. He was credited with designing the Great Pyramid of Giza. He was depended on by other gods to design their temples too. He was pretty good at that. The real nasty one was Marduk. It seems like he was always causing trouble. He was so pissed off all the time due to the fact that his dad Enki didn't get control of earth due to the succession fact (it went to Enlil). He actually usurped the Enuma Elish renaming Nibiru Marduk and trying to take credit for everything that the gods did.
Sort of like the way the Hebrews wrote the Old Testament in a monotheistic way to attribute everything to Yahweh. I guess we can go on and on about this but I can't sit here and write all this stuff. Its a lot of fun though.
People really really need to get into this stuff. They need to know what happened.
They need to know where the first kings came from. I had always asked myself that. What made certain people kings? Who decided who going to be king? Where did kingship begin?
Kingship = Kinship BTW.
Funny how things work out. Yeah, I'm sure people reading these post wonder some of these things too. It all stems from the same place folks.
Sumeria, the first civilization. The first just about everything.
You don't believe? Read your Bible. Read about Elijah. See how he was taken. Tell me that what is described by the writer isn't what today would be considered a UFO.
It's all pretty amazing. What kills me is their technology. In my readings its like they had some kind of spaecial stone or chrystal technology. The way certain cuts are in the Great Pyramid and the way certain blocks were cut in the early Americas. It's as if something were removed. In the love story of Inanna and Dumuzi when she traps Marduk in the Pyramid and its all blocked off as if with a forcefield. Then when it was over it was said that Ninurta had certain power stones removed.
This technology was by far superior to what we have today. I imagine that if we had knowledge of these things we wouldn't be facing an energy issue. Well, maybe not because there will always be greed and control. But I bet it would be different with regards to petroleum.
Leah theres no reason to be concerned with anyone monitoring these posts. There are hundreds of forums like this with people talking about these same things. Its like I said. Things are staring to come to light.
There are bigger issues at stake these days with these knuckleheads getting ready to blow things up (Israel-Iran).
Funny how its all about religion with these people too.
They still fight for the Jerusalem spaceport thousands of years after its no longer in use!!
I love this stuff!!!
-Rico-
June 29th, 2008 at 10:49 am
Dear Ricochet,
I'd like to stay in touch. In pricipal would it be ok with you ?
June 29th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Ahh…Yes….Crystal technology….I was a Gemmeologist and minerologist etc in a past life. As I said I'm not worried in the slightest about those that monitor comminications…I'm just aware that it goes on. The internet has set the world free but is abused by some, who then punnish people for their opinions and/or theories.
June 29th, 2008 at 11:28 am
friends i do not object on ur thoughts but time n existence will expain everything to u.
they will come …..they will surely come, in groups n we will b stunned !!!!
they r coming !!
June 29th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Beyond d Universe, some of us are passed being stunned…many been here long time now.
June 29th, 2008 at 12:02 pm
well just wait,,,an you will see why I get nervous
June 29th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
this hype, it seems familiar doesnt it? y2k ring a bell? the fact is that people are always looking for the end, and its been that way for years. did you know they made predictions for the end of the world in the year 2003? that didnt happen so they move it the date to later and then focus on that. there is already predictions arising for the year 2020, 2036, if 2012 predictions fail. its an endless cycle.
the article says itself that something good is supposed to happen according to the mayans, but then again, there is no such thing as a person being right about everything, especially the end of the world. the mayans were good at math, but the end of their calender could be due to religious beliefs that is not a widespreed religion. i dont care what anyone says, the end of the world is something that no one can predict anywhere in this world, although we certainly try.
i think we tend to forget that our world has been around for billions of years peacefully, so to end so abruptly now makes no sense. why after so many years would it be destroyed out of almost no where? the truth is, there is no answer.
people use a scare tactic to get what they want, money, power, domination, and it seems to work.
but if there is hope if something were to happen. one thing the mayan's couldnt predict was our superior advance in technology. we have what is needed to save ourselves. we have come a long way since the use of sticks and stones, and we will not just roll over and die. i think people need to have more faith in the human race and in their universe instead of readily believeing every apocolypse story that pops up.
my only theory is that with all the hate, greed, death, power hunger in this world, the ultimate destruction of mankind is none other than mankind itself
June 29th, 2008 at 12:45 pm
for those of you who want the science part of the story, click on the site below that will take you to the official NASA website where a NASA worker has answered questions about all these scientific doomsday speculations and find out once and for all.
if i were you id look into this, read about everythign you want to know. you could even submit a question if you want.
anything else that you dont find on this site is likely a rumor started by someone who believes something, but they say that the discoverer of this info is a legitimate company (i.e. NASA) so they themselves dont look crazy for saying such things.
http://nai.arc.nasa.gov/astrobio/index.cfm
there is a million and one reasons people spread rumors. you all may believe what you want, but scientific advice from a professional is mind easing.
June 29th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
I agree that threats and fear have always been the tools of the ruling castes, this is understood I would have thought by the majority.
Apocolypse is from the greek word for Revealing/Unveiling and has nothing to do with the popular meaning it has aquired. Just as Armageddon has come to represent End….when it is a foretold location of the final battle.
Forgive me, but its not that any are wishing for the world to end (pain and struggle yes), its just that the gut feeling of so many is that something is afoot, even if we can't name what it is.
June 29th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Anika
Explain the apes.
Who were these people?
They were much like us, except ape- Let science explain that away- I myself have a collection of such things pertaining to them.
Not a dumb as everyone thinks,,,
June 29th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
A good rule of thumb is…. "Who's paying who to say what ? And Why ?" Therefore high rank official experts are bought and paid for…..for the most part….always doing the bidding of the paymasters.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:00 pm
Thats what I want to know! If they answer that I will be happy
June 29th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
the apes huh? last time i checked there are many different species of apes still around today. for example, gorilla's, chimps, but what does this have to do with the mayan calender and the prediction of the end? if you are suggesting something that happened in the past (like the dinosaurs) the apes obviously managed to survive.
the field of science is vast, but not everything is known, however we want to know everything, so fill in the gaps with assumptions that may b far from the truth. which leads to the article up above, and much more
June 29th, 2008 at 1:23 pm
yes but how many wore clothes, crowns, armor, and what DOES it have to do with the mayans?
June 29th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
i myself kno little about science. i am not a scientist and i did not make claims of a scientist. i was simply exclaiming facts that i have learned in grade school science and my assumption for the future and what i believe, so who's to say i'm right or wrong? no one knows, and thats a fact.
all we can do is watch, listen, and learn. i happen to b hopeful of the future rather than pre ocupying myself with the end. as a 19 year old girl i still have my entire life ahead of me, so i have nothing to do but remain hopeful and have faith in what the experts have to say. have faith in the will to live of the human race. and have faith in our ever faithful universe, who to this day is still going strong.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
okay- not pecking a fight with ya,,,it is just something which bothers me. I am not so worried about 2012. I just want a few answers about some things- I happen to know the where abouts of. Nothing more.
smile
June 29th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
they could have been an early race of humans. obviously clothes, precious metals, and armor can b easily made, even for the earliest races. do you know where this early race lived? if they were before the mayans then mayb it has nothing to do with the mayans at all. influences perhaps? ur really asking the wrong person about this bcuz i'm no scientist.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:34 pm
but others are reading these posts too.
want to argue about something? lol
June 29th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
i'm not picking a fight either, i'm just simply stating my opinion on this, which i did knowing that people would jump down my throat about. and thats what this forum is for anyway, opinions, beliefs, the internet gives everyone that freedom. the sad part is, its used to attack people, and make them feel bad about what they believe when every person is eligable to believe what they want, which brings me back to my original theory, the downfall of the human race could ultimately be caused by one another.
if this enlightenment the mayans predicted were to happen in 2012 was true, i honestly think we need it
June 29th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
hmmm
you got spunk! Thats for sure.
So what you think? What will happen?
June 29th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Dear Annika,
Your tutors are taught what to teach you and how to teach you. All so called experts aquire their approval/qualifications from other HUMANS, who get theirs from other humans and so on.
At 50 plus I've learnt one thing abouts experts…they are not as expert as they would have you believe.
June 29th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
i think we will be fine, but thats just me. we do have great technology advances and nuclear shelters to protect us. if a shelter like that could survive a nuclear bomb, then a natural disaster doesnt stand a chance.
but if the end were to come then so be it.
but mayb the people who de coded the mayans acient scripture could have been wrong. just one mistake could alter the entire answer. science is not always right about what they find. we learn more, but in the end we never realy know the whole truth
June 29th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
expert is simply a word that we use to seperate us from those who know more. mayb i used a bad word choice, but they do know more than the modern day america.
what i have applied in this forum is and should b common knowledge, which is why i brought it up.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Dear Annika,
Not a bad choice of word at all….like specialist…expert just means someone who knows more about ONE subject than most people. Problem is that too few are experts on the subjects that are relative to their chosen field. So true understanding evades them.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
agreed, we need to know more, the problem is that america is so far in debt that mayb we dont have sufficient funding needed to learn even more. i remember reading that NASA had its "eye" on a number of things. but the fact that our universe has mostly been quiet is re assuring.
or mayb its true that the only thing people care about anymore is money or power.
either way theres not much we as the bulk of the population can do.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
keep going- doing good
June 29th, 2008 at 2:26 pm
We as the bulk of the people could start turning away from using and doing things that cause harm to Earth and all life on it. Nasa is watching alright…just not reporting. It matters not….galactic and cosmic going ons are not something they can change or stop.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Forgive my ignorance. I have researched all iI could. i have read the Zorah, Torah, Qur'an,Bible & the Mahabratta( i'm sure i spelled that wrong). I was a Nuclear,Biologial and Chemical Operations Specialist for the U.S Army. and i love Sci-fi. from Spider-man to Star Wars. I've read so much and have learned so little. the end date on the Mayans calander, I believe has to do with our inner self. I am not a preacher or holy man in any way. Matter of fact if what i think is true i have alot of repenting to do. I thought only facts mattered and took religous theroys as a way to justify my pride. They say Magic & Science dont mix. what if we were supossed to mix them. didnt the mayans. every major book regarding God says 3 basic underlying things. 1 love one another. 2 do what is right, for the sake of the right thing. 3 if you dont follow the first 2 rules be ready to answer why on the day of judgment. if the mayans mixed math(science) with worship(religion), why wont the rest of the world wake up? Again forgive my ignorance for i am still seeking answers to all the questions i have. Dont you think if we send the Space Shuttle to germany, let them rebuild the engine, send the body of the shuttle to Japan let them streamline it.Dont you believe we could have been to the moon and back several times already. Dont you believe if we stopped using oil today shared our technogoly with other countries and they with us, we could save our planet?Jews,Muslims & Christians were all born the same way and will die the same way. By taking our first breath and by taking our last.I must sound as though i am just ranting. ill stop now but as i read eveyones comments, i realized this was the place to add mine. may everyone find whatever it is that they are looking for.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:32 pm
lol what else do u want me to say.
the only thing i havent covered is that the government is not worried of these doomsday predictions. (i dont recall seeing national televised presses about it, i could b wrong) which is saying something bcuz the government never fails to scare us. for example, the war on terror, terrorist attacks, and even the election is scaring people into no voting for the other person.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Espumpin, you know more than you think. Peace is not profitable….war and conflict is. We would certainly have a healthier world and life if just some of the clean energy technology was permitted for the masses.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Dear Annika, sorry if I've annoyed you.
Governments don't see the point in worrying people with things that would induce panic, and that are beyond human control. They only scare you with things they can control.
June 29th, 2008 at 2:59 pm
my husband of the marines tells me not to worry, and he knows more about the u.s. government than myself, so i will trust his word.
its true when they say that there is alot the government isnt telling us for to good of the society. but with or without the government ackowledging these rumors, there would still b panic. its 4 years away and already people are freaking out
June 29th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Annika
You're pretty cool!! The only thing I see wrong in your opinions is that they are based on faith that that your Government cares about you. Do you really believe that NASA would let us know if we were facing an earth changing threat in the next few years? Don't you think that it would cause a major panic? Many people would go bananas because in reality how would you punish them? They wouldn't care about a life sentence at that point would they? Also you state that we have nuclear shelters. This is truly a myth. I'm sorry to burst your bubble but in the event of a nuclear attack you'd probably have at most 20 minutes to get somewhere partially safe and then stay there for quite a while before exposing yourself to the fallout. There are places that are prepared by FEMA but there is already a plan in place to save SELECT people. By select I mean people that have been vetted and chosen by our leaders. People with skills at specific positions such as scientist, physicist, enginners, etc.Common folk like you and I, we don't count. Ever heard of "collateral losses"?
Thats all we are.
If you scroll up on these post you will find that I have stated that we are not talking about the end of the world. We are talking about the end of the world as we know it. Not the end of mankind. See where I wrote about the Bibles Flood? That was an end of the world scenario. Supposedly only a few survived right? Noah and his family and some others.
There were more survivors than that if you look into the American accounts about the god Viracocha and the like. But I'm not going there.
I understand that you are a 19 year old beautiful and vivacious young woman and that you have your whole life ahead of you.
But this is a doomsday forum isn't it? I mean, if you didn't have any interest in this. What drew you here? Don't you understand that it's like Leah says. There is something going on that have people FEELING that something is going to happen. People are looking for answers now more than ever. Maybe you share this feeling and you don't know how to interpret it. The way I see it even the people here that have posted that "nothing is going to happen" "it's all bull" Even they sound to me like someone standing in a cementary at midnight convincing themselves that they ain't afraid of no ghost.
You're young and you should live out the rest of your life happy. And what I'm about to say may sound offensive but I assure you I'm going to say it in fun.
You need to go to some fun forum. Unless you're going to to come and actually look up some of the referrence points we're putting up and seeing for yourself why we believe what we believe. Forget NASA. That's a government branch that provides sanctioned information. They will NEVER tell you the truth.
Annika did you know that ALL the astronauts have seen UFO's? Ask NASA about that and see what they say.
Something IS going to happen. And not only that. But something bad is going to happen before the 2012 date and you're right. It will be a human issue. I expect limited nuclear skirmishes BEFORE the 2012 date. You can see in the news how they're already preparing the masses for acceptance of this.
I don't want you to feel that this is an attack Annika. It's not, I'm telling you these things so you can scroll up and at the very least Google the things I posted. This way you may have some understanding as to why I believe what I do.
Leah sure we can keep in touch. My email is cbudet@gmail.com
Feel free to contact me directly.
-Rico-
June 29th, 2008 at 3:04 pm
its not annoying. i dont see anything wrong with people expressing their honest opinions to one another. communication is the best remedy for many things. and hell if i made a wrong assumption then tell me so, bcuz i am willing to admit my possible faults
June 29th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
usualy i dont care about the government. i never registered to vote for a reason. and my uncaring for the government is obviously where i lack information. i understand our leaders are fucked up, and telling me so wont change anything. if the end of the world comes then i'll take it, id rather die than live in a world of hate, fear, and corruption. but for now i'm going to enjoy my life the way it is.
but it seems that information like that is to b kept confidential if they honestly wish to keep from mass panic. no doubt the internet is a harbor for rumors to spread, and the lack of knowledge by the people leaves them spread rumors of their speculations. unless u urself have worked for the government.
June 29th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
I think that the mayans culture was just disbanded or changed to other beliefs before they got to write the rest of the calander!
June 29th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Dear Annika,
The world is changing as we know it already, as it is always changing. And no….the mayan calendar does not mean the end of the world as in all life. So we should all live life the best we can, under the circumstances. Be well.
June 29th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
The term end of the world is rather unwise for anyone to use when discussing possible disaster events. Not many things can end our world in the short years ahead.
Clearly we are in a period of turmoil and change, there is much darkness on the horizon. That said culturally we are perfectly able to bring about a new golden age anytime we all feel like doing so. The world will still pass through difficult changes, it always has. Working together however stops those hardships being global disasters such as those in some prophecy.
I will take care in the years ahead, but will hold a vision of brighter years ahead beyond 2012.
Peace and light go with all.
June 29th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
Well said 2012 Rising.
June 29th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
Annika,
You should vote though. It's important to be heard. You vote counts believe it or not.
-Rico-
June 29th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
I just dont want to believe all this…I BELIEVE THAT GOD WILL SAVE US…and give us another chance….
June 29th, 2008 at 5:49 pm
This is all B.S. to make money with these books and things. The world is not just going to end because some Mayan calendar ends. It had to stop somewhere.
June 29th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
i agree that the mayan calender ending doesnt mean the end of the world, in fact, historians argue if it really ends or not. its something about zeros with us. back in 1999 the zeroes of 2000 scared us. but nothing happened. this could b no different with the mayan calender.
heres something not talked about much about the mayans. almost every early civilization used drugs in traditions, and i'm talking about halucination drugs. the chinese did it, the mayans, the native americans. visions or halucinations could have brought them to believe what they believe.
it is human nature to assume the worst when lack of knowledge is not present. this goes for everything, the government, conspiricies, rumors, myths, everything.
June 29th, 2008 at 8:25 pm
jean,
some sources said that the invation of the spainish upon the mayans could have disrupted their continuation of the calender. there are many reasons for why it could have just stopped. but for some reason people like to assume the worst. make a story out if it because the mayans unable to complete their calender means the end of that story.
June 29th, 2008 at 11:21 pm
Some people just don't get it. Listen up people. I'm going to make this real simple.
The Mayans were taught about the stars by invaders from some other planet. They didn't invent the calendar out of their pure wisdom. They were taught. The Watchers or the Sons of God or whatever you want to call them used the indigent south Americans just as they did the Egyptians and the Sumerians as their slaves. They had them build Pyramids and Temples and all kinds of crap. The first civilized men were slaves.
Man was a mere hunter-gatherer until these guys came along and changed our DNA. They then taught them agriculture and domestication of animals even providing some animals themselves. Do you know how much food is required to run a city full of people? Do you think one could hunt on a daily basis to feed a population like that? Do you think man discovered agriculture by himself as well as sanitation and how to supply water for a city?
You people keep thinking that the Mayan calendar was something that stupid indians put together. These people were very informed by others that KNEW the stars, were very familiar with stars. The constellations even. You think thats easy? You think that you're so much more advanced today? Let me tell you that the average lay person TODAY couldn't tell you the difference between a planet and a start shining in the night sky. They didn't make calendars by counting days. This took much study. The calendar that they made was so accurate that it could tell the the moon phases 1000 years in advance. Even to this date. It didn't stop in 2012 because it was incomplete. It stopped there because after that date. They couldn't tell you where the stars would be in the sky. If the earth shifts position then the stars in the sky would change position because our perspective would change.
You can believe what you want but you need to look things up. It's all out there. It's even in your Bible. There were visitors that screwed up mans DNA and changed our evolution and taught men how to use metal, they taught them agriculture, they taught men many things. Also, don't talk about drugs like it's something bad. There are more man made drugs doing harm to people than the ones that are illegal.
The drugs that you're referring to are actually plants. Man didn't make plants. God did. No where in any scripture does it say anything about drugs. In fact some cultures use them as a sacrament even today. The religious aspects are undeniable especially compared to the symbolism used in our Churces today as a means of communion and sacrament. To say that these people used drugs and that this disqualifies their credibilty is truly bad judgement. You need to look at the history of these cultures before you judge them. In fact lets take our US of A. How old is that culture? Oh right, a little over 200 years. Lets see how it started. Oh right they killed the American Indians, they used drugs too so they were no good right? Please. Basically the people in charge now have done such a great job brain washing the masses that I'm writing this for nothing. Its a damned shame too. No one knows how to think anymore.
Your average drug user is more enlightened than you are if don't use drugs.
At least they rebelled against the machine.
I can't take this anymore. I'll follow the postings but I don't think I can handle most of the things I'm reading here. I'm not equipped with the patience required to address the ignorant statements that are being made. I'm not calling you guys ignorant, just ignorant of the facts as they are. Its like basically people talking about things that they know nothing about. I can't do it.
Keep posting though. Now you can all call me a druggie and say anything you want but guess what? I forgive you all.
Please….Teach yourselves. No one is going to just come and teach you. It's all out there if you take the time to search.
I'll post when I feel like I have something to say but I won't address anymore rebuttals about the silly stuff being said in here.
-Rico-
June 29th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
You know what? You people need to Google The Mayan calendar and take a look at the pictures. This calendar wasn't something you got free every year from your favorite Chinese restaurant. It is complete. It is WRITTEN IN STONE for Christ sake!!!
Take a look at it. You can't even understand it!!!!!. Its an amazing piece of work!!!!
Nuff Said,
-Rico-
June 30th, 2008 at 7:05 am
Hi,
Today was the first day i heard about all this and i dont know what to believe.
I was told that that sun would align with the milky way and something about a black hole..??
I heard the poles would move and Ireland could well become like antartic. The north pole could become the south pole??
I am very ignorant to all this and i have been googling all day to try and find out more.
Never mind the mayans. Never mind the calender. Think about the scientists and astrominasts who have thought up the theory of the sun and the milky way.
I also heard something about I ching??
And is it true that all this disruption could affct the core causing earthquakes, tsumani's rupture volcanoes??
Please, I need more fact and less theory,
– Katie –
June 30th, 2008 at 7:13 am
Hi Katie,
Alignment with the galactic plane is not theory…..yes there is a black hole at the centre of our galaxy as there is at the centre of all galaxies. No one can state what the effect of the alignment will be, but we have been getting closer with each passing day. So we will probably experience more of the same as we are having now, maybe even more intense.
June 30th, 2008 at 7:14 am
There is a veritable book's worth of info and ideas on this thread…..well worth reading all of it.
June 30th, 2008 at 7:23 am
Are the monuments, carvings and cave paintings etc that ancient civilisations created SCI FI or fiction, made purely for fun and entertainment ?
OR are they a record of their own history and ancestoral experiences…..or even their own present experiences ?
Which is more likely ?
June 30th, 2008 at 7:54 am
Type in "Amero". do not add .com or .net, and hit enter. go to where it says "buy Amero". if the local shoprite gave away all its food for free, that could feed a neighborhood. The warehouse could feed a community. all the chain stores could feed a state. but money gets in the way. what if we told them to keep their oil. as hard as it may be we'll walk to work or use a bike. if we dont buy the oil it becomes useless to everyone. its just sticky water. we in turn can use other resources to help make the world a better place. but money gets in the way. what if people simply did the job that they love, and of'course you must have the knowlegde or skill for. why cant we all go to school and be given the oppurtunity simply to learn, oh yeah. you need money for that to. So if it wasn't for money, greed for money and money. we might be one earth one people. Worshipping one true God. Growing and flourishing. all those computers and cell phones we throw away just to get the lastest ones, can be donated so everyone is connected. that reduces crime, keeps us all informed. unifies the world. Extreme makeover Home Edition should get with houses for humanity on a global scale and ease some of the surferring around the world. i'll rant more later. sorry for bothering all of you but thank you listening.
June 30th, 2008 at 9:21 am
The width from heaven to earth sounds far, but is only as closeas the atmoshere and outer space meet. The bible says the road to paradise is narrow, while the road to hell is wide. The Torah and Qur'an say the same. the meek shall inheriate the earth, (Bible and Torah) the Qur'an says the lowest dewellers in rank, will have ten times they have now.I pray i could be one the lowest of rank. so god may so mercy and forgiveness towards me. " in a perfect manner, his knowledge emcompasses all things. the open and the secret and the public and the private. He knows what has happened will happen and how it will happen. no affair occurs in the whole world except by His will. whatever He wills is, and whatever he does not will is not and will never be. God is the creator of everything. on this world and in our universe. He gave us our knowledge and we used it for anything but good. all the books of one god all the religions of one god. why can we not unite under one god. 2012 will bring about an age of enlightment or will others cause it to be doomsday? i think im going crazy, lol. but how can i deserve heaven if i cannot help everyone get there first. Forgive my ignorance that i call my thoughts, and if anyone has answers for me please im willing to learn.
thank you
June 30th, 2008 at 10:35 am
Dear Espumpin,
No argument just food for thought. Good anything takes time and effort to achieve…..like a good healthy meal…..in comparison to an unhealthy 2 minute micro wave meal requiring almost zero effort.
I personally think the road to paradise is long and takes patience, in comparison to the road to hell. Hell being quick and easy to fall into.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:03 am
how about this, if the world ends it ends, and if it doesnt then we can all get drunk on the eve of 2013.
lets face it, if the world is truely going to end then it doesnt matter how many warnings we get, its going to end no matter what and we cant do anything about it.
and if it doesnt end then we can all feel like idiots for worrying and wasting our time bitching on this forum.
as for Ian, i would like to thank him for kindly taking his time to give us a little insite on the other side of the story. theres nothing wrong with giving ppl hope. and for those of u who are so negative, mayb u should leave this site if u are seriously against it.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:05 am
and if something else happens then s