2,292 Replies to “Comments for 2012: No Geomagnetic Reversal”

  1. poarity in men or animals change all the time without even noticing it without special instruments. WHY we thing in case of planet it will bring such calamity?? If we are aware such thing can happen we should be prapared for reversals in directions (specially in travel and flights) It has happened many times and it has happened in computer models and it will happen to us one day but WHY calamity??

  2. The psychology involved in this sort of end-of-the-world enthusiasm intrigues me. The 2012 phenomenon isn’t unique. For at least 2000 years people have regularly calculated the time of the ending of the world, announced it to the public, collected a following, got them to sell or give away all their possessions, and led them out into the desert or up on a mountain to await The End. *Not once* have any of those predictions come true. And yet people do it over and over and over. And they simply refuse to listen to anything intended to refute the Prophecy of the End Time . . . until there they are, bereft, with only the clothes on their backs, standing in the desert or on a mountainside watching the Sun come up, knowing that the world is rolling on as it always has, and that they were deceived. Doesn’t matter who predicts it or from what — what matters is that so many people *want to believe in the end of the world coming in their own lifetimes*. And that’s what’s going on here.

  3. > So, do you think there will be a geomagnetic reversal event in 2012? I thought not.

    I’ll think for myself, thanks.

    I did like the explanation of what we do know about the magnetic field, it’s a great writeup. But in the end, chaotic only equals not knowing enough yet to make a good prediction. So if we don’t know why it changes, it needs as much faith to believe it won’t reverse in 2012 as it does to believe it will.

  4. @Todd Sieling
    “chaotic only equals not knowing enough yet to make a good prediction. So if we don’t know why it changes, it needs as much faith to believe it won’t reverse in 2012 as it does to believe it will.”

    It’s probability, based on the evidence stated in the article, that makes it unlikely for geomagnetic reversal to happen in the next four years, or even the next 100,000. Faith has nothing to do with it.

    Of course, if you’d rather believe that an ancient civilization that used stone tools had figured it all out because they possessed cosmic secrets, or that some god has a special plan just for us, that would be faith. Misplaced faith, but faith nonetheless.

  5. Soooo…..what you’re saying is that one day I’ll have to buy a new compass! Time to buy stock in companies that make compasses!

    Great article. I didn’t expect doomsday but I have wondered what would happen when the polarity switched. Thanks.

  6. I hate everything about 2012, the prdictions and so on. Expecially the rumours about planet x, named Nibiru. You really need to wisit http://2012-chat.com. They’re saying many things about this year, and they really need someone like you. Who can teach them. i.e. They’re all saying that Jupiter, which you can se now, is Nibiru!
    And the worse thing is, that they believe in it. So show this contribution to them, so they can get more wiser.

    I love your blog! Greetings from Sweden!

  7. People should stop wasting their time reading doomsday scenarios and should start caring about how to save earth from global warming which has already shown its inpact on our daily lives.

  8. “most likely experience aurorae at all latitudes”

    One geomagnetic reversal please 🙂

  9. Looking at the chart showing Earths polarity reversals over the last 160 million years. Black = normal polarity, White = reversed polarity. From Lowrie (1997) and applying an eyeball test I would say without question that the trend for the last 130 million years has been to shorter periods of time before/between reversals. This would affect the probability IMHO of there being more likely a flip sooner rather than later.
    IMO comparing the current or most recent duration of the black or normal phase to its average duration over the last 25 million years would indicate that we are more likely to have a flip tomorrow than not because the extended duration of our current black cycle is greater than the average length of the black cycle for the last 25 million years .

  10. Did doomsayers ever mention the disturbing influence of geomagnetic reversal on the global produktion of milk? 🙂

    Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences: Magnetic alignment in grazing and resting cattle and deer, http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2008/08/22/0803650105.abstract

    “domestic cattle (n = 8,510 in 308 pastures) across the globe, and grazing and resting red and roe deer (n = 2,974 at 241 localities), align their body axes in roughly a north–south direction. Direct observations of roe deer revealed that animals orient their heads northward when grazing or resting.”

  11. Geomagnetic reversal will give migratory birds a lot of trouble:

    Do Birds Use Magnetic Field to Plan Migration Routes?, news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/11/1102_TVbirdflite.html

    “A new study suggests that birds use the Earth’s magnetic field to plan dining locations along their migration route. These culinary stopovers are critical to the success of the migration because, according to a second study, the fatter the bird, the more efficiently it is able to fly.”

  12. Why would satellites be affected by a magnetic shift? I thought their orbit was dependent on gravity.

  13. A really fascinating article. Is the prediction of the End of Days a global phenomenon or is it just another Judeo-Christian myth? In reply to Todd’s article I would like to point out that “…chaotic only equals not knowing enough yet to make a good prediction…” is not scientifically accurate. Chaotic systems, and this may well be a chaotic system, are not open to prediction. We can see trends and large manifestations of chaotic systems, for example the cloud bands and spots of Jupiter but we cannot predict with any certainty what will happen in six months from now no matter how much data we possess.

  14. Skepticism on these issues is very often misplaced; it’s like the supposed conflict between religion and natural philosophy, it so often makes the mistake of taking physical reality for psychological reality and then jumps up and down saying that apples are not oranges and therefore oranges cannot exist!

    Here’s the thing: People are born ignorant, and so they make mistakes in their naturally scientific exploration of their world since infancy. Eventually they come to some point where their internal model of the world (psychology) has trouble with the external constraints (natural philosophy) and they realize they need to change, but, as evolution would have it, people are highly reluctant to disbelieve their psychology and are thus resistant to change, even when they can see their personal disaster looming.

    So what to do? Cultural evolution has given us a nifty result: as posted today on MindHacks but known to magick practitioners since ancient stone-days, if you push people over the edge with a myth, they will make that jump into a new way of thinking, and the best way to push them is to give them a scenario that is “beyond their control” but then hint that a personal change just might avert the disaster. This is the basis of all “millenium cults” and I dare say may play a part in the whole Al-Gore Global WarmingChange and the current Money Market preaching.

    So consider our world today, clearly our psychological habits, especially in the West, are in need of fundamental change that no amount of TV public-service spots seem to affect. Then along comes 2012, and so many, many, many seemingling converging disasters. How could any change-work shaman pass up such opportunity?

  15. an addendum thought for the Scientists out there: Knowing what we do about the psychology of change-work and the pressing need for new paradigms of cultural behaviour, is it ETHICAL for us to be openly and publicly critical of their myths?

    I read once that Galileo was put under a gentle house arrest by his good friend (the Pope) not for reasons of scientific heresy, but because of a fear his heliocentric and atomic-particle theories would undermine popular myths during a particularly unstable political time. He was never told to stop his studies or to stop writing, only to stop telling everyday people about his findings. If the Pope truly thought Galileo was ‘evil’, wouldn’t he have just had him tortured into submission or executed?

  16. “Without GPS, our airliners will also plough into the ground…” — Only if we migrate to pilotless airliners. Inertial navigation systems have been around for decades and are not dependent on compass information (Earth’s magnetic field) or GPS.

  17. Yes, probably won’t happen. However, the bigger question is but will the American economy have enough money to be able to observe and measure the field changing? Even 2009 at the moment ain’t looking too good, IMO, let alone 2012.

    (if you are after a good giggle on such problems as planes falling out of the sky can highly recommend “The Core” (2003). Probably the funniest sci-fi movie ever made! I.e. The pigeons in Trafalgar square in London.)

    Yes, I do have a point… A good explanation of the loss of the Earth’s magnetic field and its consequences appears on Phil Platt’s “Bad Astronomy” site at;

    Review: The Core”

  18. Then Maya Calender may be correct.Then how one astronomer can demand oneself more pure than a astrologer?

  19. @dipankar: Because (to put it simple) an astronomer studies the world around him (the universe to be precise) and uses science (a method) to figure out how it interconnects. An astrologer only deals in myths and humbug.

  20. The precursor to magnetic pole reversal is that domestic and global stock markets collapse four years prior to the 21 December 2012 date. That means there will be a great stock buying opportunity this year at Christmas time but you must sell those stocks before 21 December 2012!.

  21. hey when was the last time any of you guys look at a compass? I checked the direction of where my house stood when I moved in 3 years ago. Now it is about 30 degrees west of that. Any thoughts?

  22. lol you guys better start spending your lifetime savings into the world’s best brothels 😀 , and hope that 2012 is “really” the end…

  23. Just a little detail, but you seem to say that the magnetic south pole is at the geographic south pole, while it actually is at the geographic north pole, otherwise a magnet’s north pole wouldn’t point north :p

    Just switch “north” and “south” around a bit and it all fits.

  24. 2012 is the peak of a 5125 year astronomical cycle of our solar system’s wobble while orbiting the supermassive black hole at the center of the milky way galaxy.

  25. I think it’s to hard to predict something like this. I do find it amazing what the Mayans did and the fact that they were such expert cosmo trackers does provide some merit.

    The shows I’ve watched on the Mayans don’t necessarily facilitate that the world would end in 2012 but a new era basically begins.

    In my mind I take that as not a global disaster but something big enough to have a major impact on most of the world, but not annihilating everyone or everything living.

    The thing about the universe it’s unpredictable and who really knows what’s going to happen.

    I like to toss ideas to people on what possibilities are out there and let them run with it. If anything the world needs to be cleansed. It’s going to crap. All morality is being lost, freedom is disappearing, and technology is getting to the point where every inch you move will be tracked, analyzed, and subjected to big brother.

  26. Why does anybody need the Maya (or Aztec or Inca or whatever) doomsday stories, if contemporary cosmology has it’s own? Remember the Astronomy Cast Episodes dealing with The End of the Universe:

    #86: The End of the Solar System,
    #87: The End of Everything.

    There is a in-accordance-with-modern-science doomsday.

    Is the NEO project (http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov) not concerned with the same “idea” of mass extinction on earth? Our scientific approach to “the end of all days” is based on probability calculation and principles of uncertainty. Somehow we do all know that shit happens from time to time 😉

    Presumably, the prehistoric Clovis culture of ancient America has been extinguished in succession of a catastrophic meteor impact, as presented in “The Clovis Comet Evidence for a Cosmic Collision 12,900 Years Ago”,
    http://allendale-expedition.net/publications/comet.pdf,

    If so, then why should ancient civilizations of Central America, surviving the disaster of the north, not have made up their own “theories” dazu? Archaic, mythical, emblematic, but nevertheless rooting in an incredible real event several millennia before. Someway the memories of the most impressive events of the prehistoric mankind must have survived in the myths they formed.

  27. There is an reason why the Poles(N/S)
    wander. This artical left that part out, because
    it has to do with the “wabling” in the rotation
    of the planet. The cause is man made and we
    will pay for it! We have built structures for
    our ever increasing presence that requiered
    redisterbution of materials to built these
    vacariuos dwellings. We transport billion tons
    from one place of the planet to an other!
    We depleted almost all iron deposits! Granted we did not delete we just moved it?
    We balance a tire that we put on our Hummers, If we use that same locig as we do to our planet, why do we have to balance our tires? But the show must go on so keep
    building these colosal structures, you only live
    ONCE?

  28. Interesting, but this article and some of the comments have a disgusting sense of prudeness.

  29. for those planning to buy a compass
    in the near future, make sure it comes
    with 5 years warranty, so you can have
    it recalibrated just in case…

    worse, wonder what will happen if the
    magnets of the LHC reverse polarity?
    where will all those protons end up?

  30. Folks, I’m an ardent “Indians Fan”
    I have come across absolutely no prediction by the Maya (sic) that the World will end when the current Long Count ends.

    I HAVE come across directives, written in stone, about what to do on certain dates after the alleged End of the World. Most notable:
    Chief Pacal of Palenque wanted the 80th “Calendar Round Anniversary” (calender round = ca.52 years) of his accession celebrated in a BIG way, and to make sure nobody forgot, he had the date and instructions inscribed on a plaque: October 21st, 4772…

  31. By looking at an iron-rich mineral called magnetite in the lava, the researchers were able to deduce the direction of the magnetic field.

    An analysis of magnetite samples on Mars would be very interessting.

  32. As is the present understanding of this planet, we know very little and are in a constant learning curve. As yet no one has investigated the interaction of our planets core and the oceans that cover seventy percent of the surface. Doomsayers will grasp at any event or hypothetical prediction to create chaos in the general population. Scientific investigation will reveal true causes for past events but do nothing to aid in the prediction of future events. We shall continue to learn until we decide to leave this planet for a better one but will it really be any better than here.

  33. Using the Mayan Prophecy as an excuse to create new and explosive ways in which our planet may be destroyed, 2012 doomsayers use the geomagnetic shift theory as if it is set in stone.

    WHAT “Mayan prophecy”?!? There is no such Mayan prophecy! It is a phantom of “Western” kooks.

  34. I find the “oh no, I’m going to have to buy a new compass” reactions quite funny. Like you can’t work with a compass that continuously points south 😛

  35. Ian,

    I don’t get it. If Uranus suffered catastrophic damage in the past, why don’t you just find new friends? Or at least change habits.

  36. The worse part of this is for me is that I’m trying to do legitimate archeoastronomy on the Mayans with a comet. I just need to pin down a date tracked down for a position in the sky to finish the orbit. Most archeologists think I’m with these New Age people. Book store clerks go let me take you to the New Age section even though I tell them specifically I’m not interested in this end of the world nonsense. A couple, fortunately, reviewed my work and asked for one minor change. Still, it is frustrating.

  37. The alleged need to “replace” or “recalibrate” our compasses, or their electronic counterparts, is a might shortsighted. A compass, as any Boy Scout (but few 2nd Lieutenants) knows, points towards not towards the cardinal direction of North, per se.

    Rather, a compass needle is directed towards the nearest strong magnetic source. Look at a compass when you start your car, and watch the needle spin- the electro-magnetic function of your vehicle’s starter will quickly, albeit briefly, overcome the influence presented by *whichever* of our planet’s two magentic poles is closest.

    That’s right, “whichever of our planet’s two magnetic poles is closer”. You see, a compass south of the equator points to the South Pole. Ergo, if our poles do shift, the magnetic needle will still point to the strongest magnetic field effecting the area.

    Remember the hysteria over our computers ending the world on New Year’s Eve 1999/New Year’s Day 2000? Same ignorant pop-science here. Just another bad plot device “Space:1999”. Or “Family Guy”. Either way, 22 DEC 2012 will be just another day of failed promises and listening to “Doomsayers” explaining what it is that they really meant.

  38. Were a geomagnetic shift to occur, might the modern world — of digital data — as we know it, literally, cease to exist as all data is wiped out in the shift?

  39. Joseph E Lawrence has an interesting chapter on this topic in his book, _Apocalypse 2012: An Optimist Investigates the End of Civilization_. He visits Pieter Kotze in South Africa to find out what he has to say about it.

    It’s a good book – investigating this and other doomsday scenarios from a mostly scientific perspective. There’s acknowledgment at the start that discussion of God is not a scientific question – a mark of good philosophy, and about the only fault I can find is that the later sections come close to “vile rant”. It would certainly pay to verify accounts of middle Eastern history rather than swallowing them, for instance.

  40. Isn’t 21-12-2012 the date that was mentioned in the final episode of ‘The X Files’ for the destruction of the Earth by aliens? I think someone has taken television far too seriously.

  41. sorry skip,

    “That’s right, “whichever of our planet’s two magnetic poles is closer”. You see, a compass south of the equator points to the South Pole. Ergo, if our poles do shift, the magnetic needle will still point to the strongest magnetic field effecting the area.”

    ain’t quite right. my compass still points toward the north magnetic pole. i’ve never taken it past the equator toward the north pole, however i doubt it would point south (er.. north) if i did so, as it was manufactured in europe for a milatary force that has never been down under.

    everything else you said sounds fair enough.

  42. Atlantean civilisation? When was that then? Where was that then? The dates above are the dates slap bang in the middle of the Ice Age. The only ‘civilisation’ then where the Mousterian of the Neaderthals and later the Aurignacian culture of the early-ish Cro-Magnon. So no building monuments on an epic scale then and sitting down penning odes to one’s love in flourishing orchards either.

  43. Magnetic reversals are documented in part by certain single celled organisms that contain magnetite (Norway, Finland fossil records) and fall alligned with the Earth’s magnetic field at the time they die. Hundreds of reversals are documented, none of which are associated with extintion events. Living organisms are, however exposed to more radiation during the events, low levels such that DNA would not be affected (which may be by cosmic radiation of much higher energy). Nay sayers want to tuck in the ignorant masses, comforting them from fears of the unknown, such as real UFO’s, real global superstorms, real meteor impacts, real magnetic reversals (the sun does it every 11.4 years), and other distractions from mind numbing television that keeps them safely out of politics and globalist conquests..

  44. Ironically, this article doesn’t talk about how the magnetic poles have already shifted in the sun. Before the shift the sun reflected high frequency “space dust”. After the shift it is now attracting the dust. Nor do these articles, at least not all at once, talk about how Venus, the Sun, and other planets in our solar system are going through changes….like heating up and getting brighter! October Suprise anyone?

  45. The only thing that will happen in 2012 is the end of the 2012 doomsday predictions. Unfortunatlely they will find a new date to stress out over.

  46. ~~Bravehart Says:
    October 4th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
    Granted we did not delete we just moved it?
    But the show must go on so keep
    building these colosal structures, you only live ONCE?~~

    I love people who insist on placing question marks at the end of statements, instead of periods.

    You act like you know what your talking about, yet your grasp on punctuation is seriously lacking. Therefore, I cannot take your argument seriously. Open your kid’s school books and see if they’re writing everything as if it’s supposed to have a Valley Girl inflection, you dope.

    Back to the issue at hand.

    I don’t think there will be any doomsday type of events taking place in 2012, but more than likely there will be some changes made up to that point which would lead up to this “new age”. I feel we’ve already started that process of change. There may be social upheaval, but I don’t see some natural catastrophe wiping out half the world’s population.

  47. 12/21/2012 simply represents the end/beginning of a new galactic year as our solar system completes a revolution around the galaxy and is in-line with its center. Extremely impressive that the Mayans figured this out. Christianity and about 90% of all religion is based on astrological observations and therefore only represents a metaphorical way of interpreting these events.

    I think it is much more likely that these retards do something stupid to blow us all to hell just to prove that 12/21 really is the end of the world. Self-fulfilling prophecy anyone?

    Don’t drink the cool-aid

  48. Todd Sieling Says:
    October 3rd, 2008 at 5:28 pm

    > So, do you think there will be a geomagnetic reversal event in 2012? I thought not.

    >>I’ll think for myself, thanks.

    obvious cat is obvious.

  49. God also said that the end will come when no one is expecting it.

    Therefore, I’m glad these doomsday myths are spreading like an IQ virus, because that means God hasn’t decided to Ctrl+C us yet.

    Good times!

  50. “Interesting, but this article and some of the comments have a disgusting sense of prudeness.”

    I agree. Reminds me of the unusually angry rants against those silly Creationists. The end of the Mayan calendar is an exciting event, and the Mayans were no dummies. Their calendar is more precise than the one we use, for instance. They believed that time is cyclical as opposed to our linear conception, and if you’ve been paying attention, you’ll see that there is a great deal of truth behind the cyclical version (I personally feel it’s a combination of the two, more like a spiral).

    Anyway, if such a brilliant culture says that the end of their biggest cycle is coming on 12.21.12, and that a new grand cycle will begin, then I personally feel there’s something to it. It will probably be subtle – nothing catastrophic, perhaps not even noticeable – but interesting nevertheless, already proven by these sorts of articles. Think less Descartes and more Schopenhauer. Add some ideal to the material, some energy to the mass, for a fuller perspective.

  51. Living organisms are, however exposed to more radiation during the events, low levels such that DNA would not be affected

    What do you mean by “low level radiation”, Joe? Do you mean infrared, or what?

    There is not such a thing like harmless “low level nuclear radiation”.

  52. RRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNN!
    RUNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!
    RUN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  53. My father will smite all who do not listen to the Mayans prophecies. They didn’t worship him, but they know of his plans. I’ll come for you on that day. Just you wait!

  54. ok ok so because someone is afraid the world might flip around, they make excuses to say it will not. we can’t predict what tomorrow will bring, or the next or a year or ten, so to say it will not happen is about as smart as saying you will be alive tomorrow. we can not predict our future or what the world or solar system is going to do, if we could would we not be in crisis here on earth? yea it could happen yea it couldn’t we will not know untill the time comes!!! So untill then how about we just stop making assumptions and down grading the few that worrie it may, at least if it does they will be ready and not wondering what to do next or worriering what will happen tomorrow. enough with the critics, enough with the im right your wrong. just sit back and wait and see!!! either way nothing last for ever and to think we can predict tomorrow or four years from now is ridicoulous and maybe just maybe you should find something better to do with your time then sit and make excuses why one person is right or wrong and start doing something positive that will help our future!!!! untill then make the best of your life cause you never know when your going to be gone. Scott I

  55. Hey Bruce,

    My brother’s name is Bruce, but you cannot be him, as everything that you wrote was spelled correctly and your grammar was fine. :>

    Anyway…

    Compass needles point to the strongest available magnetic influence. In the event that the poles shift in 2012 (or 2102 or 2201 or whenever), your NATO-issue compass will point to whatever pole, North or South is exerting the strongest influence in that area.

    The Cardinal directions on the compass (the N, S, W, and E) are painted/printed or whatever) on the dial (really need italics on this system). The needle is usually in two different colors, but only so the user can properly orient the device.

    Remember, Magnetic North (or South, I s’pose if you’re doing “walkabout” somewhere way, way south of where I am) is rarely, if ever, aligned with True North (or South). Rather, it varies due to whatever magnetic influences exist due to the geology of the surrounding terrain. The compass operator needs to orient the device to compensate for the variance, and adjust their map accordingly.

    (And, discreetly, then ask their sergeant where actually they are, and how to most efficiently get where it is they need to be.)

    I have no doubt that at some point the poles are going to shift. The evidence for this occuring in the past is there, and, after all, the only constant in life is change. What I do doubt, very, very highly as a matter of fact, is that 21 DEC 2012 will be anything more than the day before the day before the day before the day before Christmas, with all the concommittant insanity thereto.

    For what it’s worth, the Mayans had a so-called “Long Count” Calendar, too. Oddly enough, it went for a little over 5 decades past the “doomsday scenario” of 2012.

    Hmmmmmm……. Maybe they just ran out of time to complete their work before the Conquistadores showed up a ruined a good thing, maybe?

    If I’m wrong, well, okay then. I live in a very geologically stable area, over a thousand miles from the nearest ocean, and I can fish, hunt and farm. I’m good either way. All the same, I’m buying a Christmas tree that year, and planning on a much more enjoyable blowout New Year’s Eve blast than I had in 1999/2000.

    Mazeltov, y’all

  56. Where in the Myan calendar(s) does it say with scientific fact … that 2012 concerns a magnetic pole reversal? Seriously you nerds, I want an answer….

  57. the end is near , when planet x is near the alien will return to the earth so where somethng nice for when they arrive!

  58. “There is no doubt that geomagnetic reversal will happen in the future for Earth, but we’re talking about time scales anything from an optimistic (and unlikely) 500 years to millions of years, certainly not in the coming four years…”

    Would you care to show me the evidence that one wont happen in the next four years? This article comes across just as strong as the doomsayers but we would call you the anit-doomsayers.

    Feel free to judge someones opinion or theory but when debunking it please keep in mind that unless you have the facts to counter it you are as wrong as you say they are.

  59. But WHY is the end of the Mayan calendar a significant/important event? Like all ‘primitive’, and I use the word primitive here to mean stone-age/dominated by religious domgma etc., they were frightened by the unknown future and things they couldn’t explain – which turns out to be virtually everything in nature. A bit like some of the respondents here.

  60. “There is no reason to think the strong magnetic field of the Earth can be influenced by any external force”
    Thank you for proving your ignorance.
    According to you we live in an untouchable bubble in our solar system where NOTHING can effect us.
    That has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever read…

  61. ~~Paul Eaton-Jones Says:
    October 7th, 2008 at 3:04 am
    But WHY is the end of the Mayan calendar a significant/important event? Like all ‘primitive’, and I use the word primitive here to mean stone-age/dominated by religious domgma etc., they were frightened by the unknown future and things they couldn’t explain – which turns out to be virtually everything in nature. A bit like some of the respondents here.~~

    Somehow thru scientific means, there’s been evidence to show some correlation between the Mayans’ calculations and what we’re finding on our own now. The Milky Way’s cross section has been ever so slowly making it’s way across our night sky and based on what people have seen now, we’re almost completely alligned with it’s center-most point.

    The idea that the Earth completes a wobble over the eons can possibly be proven by the findings that the North Pole’s position has no true position. It’s moving constantly. It keeps heading further north (what we know as north) and will in the somewhat near future find itself moving due south into the northern most part of Siberia.

    So yes, I would say that the Mayans had some way of calculating, on their own or otherwise, that at the end of their calendar of 5,000+ years, something would happen. By linking up their calendar with ours, it ends at our 2012. They kept count using the stars, sun and planets, and it’s far more accurate than our standard calendar. Most describe 2012 as the beginning of a new age. Some interpret that to mean that the world will come to a catastrophic end.

  62. damn, im getting scared of this, honestly.. this article has hit me the most..
    i wish earth would just stay safe until the second coming…if ever..

  63. Being that the Earth does have a wobble, in effect, could it be contributing to the climate change we’re currently seeing? The weather patterns have been in place for a long time and can be effected by relatively small factors. Is it possible that the Earth’s wobble along it’s axis is causing the northern hemisphere to warm? Seeing as the last Ice Age was 11,000-13,000 years ago and we’re on a 26,000 year wobble, wouldn’t it make a little bit of sense that we’re at the other end of the other half of the wobble and we’re facing the Sun in more of a head-on direction so we’re experiencing a warming trend? Yeah, I know there are other factors, but why couldn’t this be a factor?

  64. Paul, I don’t share a belief that doomsday is coming with the end of the Mayan calendar, but I wouldn’t be so quick to judge what was, contrary to what you describe, a very sophisticated culture as being primitive. Again, their calendar, for instance, is more precise than our own, and their math and astronomy were very advanced.

    The end of their calendar is a significant historical event and should be celebrated as such, if for nothing else than to show appreciation for one of the greater cultures our world has known. I know I’m going to party that day. Until the unseen Comet-X arrives and ushers in a new world order. Just kidding. 🙂

  65. I agree that we have no way to predict when a pole change will occur and I guess it’s no big deal if it occurs is a timely fashion: a day, week or month, but won’t the polar ice caps start to melt if reversal lingers over a year or 2( I couldn’t tell from the chart). I assume it is the earth’s magnetic field that for the most part keeps the Poles frozen; right? As to the Mayan Calendar, it ends in October, not December, 2012 closer to the date Jesus mentioned above, a date I am told coincides with the date the solar system passes through the galactic plane and gets bombarded by Gamma radiation from the Virgo Cluster but I am inclined to also agree with Dark Gnat and the rest of you, as the Bible says: LET’S EAT, DRINK AND BE MERRY, only God and Jesus know and what can we do about it? MOK

  66. Please, could SOMEONE read the fucking article before commenting?

    “there is absolutely no scientific evidence supporting the claim that there could be a geomagnetic reversal around the time of December 21st, 2012.

    Should we experience geomagnetic reversal in our lifetimes (which we probably won’t), it is unlikely that we’ll be cooked alive by the Solar Wind, or be wiped out by cosmic rays. It is unlikely that we’ll suffer any mass extinction event (after all, early man, homo erectus, lived through the last geomagnetic shift, apparently with ease). We’ll most likely experience aurorae at all latitudes whilst the dipolar magnetic field settles down to its new, reversed state, and there might be a small increase in energetic particles from space (remember, just because the magnetosphere is weakened, doesn’t mean we wont have magnetic protection), but we’ll still be protected by our thick atmosphere.”

  67. Thru the ages societies all around the globe did watch the skies. A lot of knowledge was established independently from each other and differences were also formed.

    The ancient cultures of Central America knew to part their year in 365.25 days. But the old Egyptian did also.

    Centuries before an Indian even had a clou about astronomy the ancient Greek already knew about the shape of the Earth and calculated the diameter with incredible accuracy.

    We seem to forget, that the knowledge of the ancient Greek was much accurate than that of the Mayan. And they found no hints on doomsdays between the stars. But the fascination of a big change is always what attracts the people more than pure knowledge. Isn’t it a little bit like that in todays politics? “Change” sells. 😉

  68. subsequent entry:

    We observe quasars with gravitational waves half of the universe away. And we should not know about a freaking Mayan doomsday?

    And we, who know a billion times more facts on astronomy than the Mayan, why did we not find that doomsday? What the heck should disqualify our knowledge?

    I call it cultural pessimism.

  69. As I tried to point out primitive in this context did not mean stupid or unsophisticated merely ground down by fear and ignorance of what was happening around them in nature. The ‘wobble’ of the axis/precession of the equinoxes is a fairly recent discovery and I’d bet everything I own or ever have owned that the Maya knew nothing at all about it. Their terror of ‘The end’ is mirrored by the truly ignorant end-timers that litter the web and certain parts of America. There is no, I repeat no, evidence for this scaremongering. Show me any evidence, proper evidence, facts, hard scientific proof and I might reconsider. Until then go away and bother your local religious leader.

  70. Shock news just in. The world is going to end. When? In around 750 million years when the sun starts to gently swell and increase the temperature here. By 1000 million years most of the water will have evaporated to form a thick hot, unbreathable fog. Then you can worry.

  71. It starts with believing in ancient Mayan myths and ends in sacrificing virgins to calm the gods.

  72. well isnt it amazing in billions of years we havent been hit by anything yet planets get hit 100’s of times a day, maybe aliens are protecting us

    but to the point, wow a calendar ends, so it starts again right? apparently we end on 11:11 am well i might sleep in that day. but seriously theres been millions of predictions just like this, theres no proof to any of this being true either. I read that the earth would have something spiritual occur not a doomsday, its an actual spritual change for the better thats hat the mayans said

  73. hmmm…..I already read a lot of articles and watched a lot of videos about 2012,I’m so curios what will happen

  74. skip,

    🙂

    grammar was fine, but for a lack of capitals. i did suffer from being cast into the realm of “special english for retards”, as it was know in those prepubescent days. therefore seeming to possess surprisingly better text pronunciation than the general mob after. there’s a long story to go with this that none should bear the read.

    i still hold true for the previous mentioned paragraph. the way the text flows exudes that as the current poles are, my compass should point magnetically south, being that i am closer to the southern pole (which is why i interjected).

    i have yet to start my truck and watch the needle of my compass, but i get the whole strong magnetic field will influence it’s direction. maybe after this wine i’ll try it, if the old beast will roll over.

    your reply satisfies me. in the event of a dramatic polar shift, my compass will work all the same. it will still point to the north, albeit to say this will be the current south.

    from what i remember, the end of the mayan cyclical long count was 2012, which is why it is significant. i’ll have to look at it again.

    so my wine ran out and i carried out the experiment. the old girl turned over and the compass needle tilted slightly but not convincingly. so before i filled my glass again i sat my compass on the battery, smack bang in the middle-ish. it pointed west (the battery is seated in a north-south placement. sitting it near the positive terminal it pointed south, toward the negative terminal. sitting it near the negative terminal it pointed north, toward the positive terminal. this should hold true to what you have said in some way, the wine does not allow me to do more that state the facts.

    i believe the world is constantly ending. you can’t put a time to it. everything is dying and “birthing” all the now and before and to the come. 2012 to me is the be all and end all of a meme of some classified time structure. it’s a date to be reconed with that i won’t miss for all the time in the world. i like how everything, in all these inaccurately described, as by many, conspiracies seem to coexist with this date. all the more attention to a holistically new rebirth of awe. the concept of polar shift is awn inspiring as it is.

    merry new dawn, praise the sun, yawl.

    ps. i’m not military, i just like their tools.

  75. ~~Paul Eaton-Jones Says:
    October 8th, 2008 at 1:04 am
    By 1000 million years~~

    Would that not be 1 billion years?

    I do agree with your statement though. The Sun will eventually take back what it has given. I tend to believe it might happen a little farther off than 750 million years.

  76. per says:

    (I personally feel it’s a combination of the two, more like a spiral)

    i like what you say, especially this.

  77. Eric near Buffalo. Living in Britain we still, in general, refer to a billion [US] as 1000 million. Here a million million is a billion. A trillion would be a billion billion. The 750 million years is a figure some astronomers think is when the sun enters it’s early red giant phase and though it won’t swell significantly the increse in solar energy could heat the atmosphere and hydrosphere enough to make life here extremely difficult. Certainly by 1000 million to 2000 million the sun would be a big orange/red star bloated enough to perhaps have swallowed Mercury. Of course by then humans won’t be the dominant lifeform or even A lifeform here. Should our descendants have left earth and be out in the galaxy they’ll hardly be recognisable as human. It is interesting to speculate what type of lifeform will succeeds us through the coming ages.

  78. Joseph Chilson

    1. Abridge – Condense without losing its meaning.
    Connection: A movie teaser trailer.
    2. Meticulous – Extremely careful to detail.
    Connection: A perfectionist.
    3. Deleterious – Bad for your health.
    Connection: Dan’s smoking problem.
    4. Negligible – Hardly noticed.
    Connection: Two similar things.
    5. Ineffable – Too great to be described in words.
    Connection: Something unbelievable or amazing.
    6. Acrimony – Bitterness of speech, manners, or temper.
    Connections: Dan’s racist comments.
    7. Languid – Weak or Sluggish
    Connection – Monday mornings.
    8. Eclectic – Made up of materials gathered from many sources.
    Connection: A type of compilation.
    9. Munificent – Very generous.
    Connection: The opposite of Dan.
    10. Idiosyncrasy – Personal mannerisms.
    Connection: Ones’ habits.
    11. Belie – To misrepresent.
    Connection: Lying.
    12. Emulate – To imitate a person one admires.
    Connection: Elvis impersonators.
    13. Ostentatious – Showy display of wealth.
    Connection: The monopoly guy.
    14. Fallacious – Leading to error or mistaken identities.
    Connection: Nightclubs.
    15. Precarious – Insecure.
    Connection: Dan.
    16. Cartographer –A person who makes maps or charts.
    Connection: Map makers.
    17. Juxta position – Things that are side by side.
    Connection: Cars in a parking lot.
    18. Prevaricate – Evading the truth – twisting the trust.
    Connection: Denying blame for a crime.
    19. Hackneyed – Making a saying trite or old due to over use.
    Connection: Cliché sayings.
    20. Philanthropy – Charitable, desire to help mankind.
    Connection: Community service.
    21. Alacrity – Eager to respond, act, or begin.
    Connection: Football players.
    22. Ironic – the opposite of what is said.
    Connection: Opposites.
    23. Jaded – Worn out dulled or overused.
    Connection: Old clothing.
    24. Figurative – Representation by likeness of representation.
    Connection: A simile.
    25. Disparage – To discredit someone or disrespect them.
    Connection: Talking behind someone’s back.
    26. Nomenclature – Specific groups of words about science.
    Connection: RAM and ROM
    27. Optimism – Positive.
    Connection: “The glass is half empty.”
    28. Gregarious – One who enjoys socializing.
    Connection: The opposite of myself.

  79. Paul Eaton-Jones:
    I had no idea that it’s referred to as 1000 million. Sorry if I came across as arrogant.

    ~~jim Says:
    October 8th, 2008 at 7:59 am
    ok if something was gunna happen with us dieing we already would have…end of story~~

    Oh my god. Do you do any public speaking on this subject? If not, you really should. Your insight is beyond brilliant.

    In all seriousness, I’m being totally sarcastic. So using your logic, or should I say “way of thinking”, nobody should exist just because of certain death? If that’s the case, nothing should exist solely for the reason that it would just die…including the universe. There should be filters programmed into these types of websites so dullards like yourself couldn’t interject with substandard mental vomit.

  80. Eric near Buffalo. No, you certainly didn’t come across as arrogant. We British have certain idiosyncracies that confuse non-nationals. I think I might have mentioned before when I was at school in the 60’s-70’s we still had to learn about chains and furlongs; rods, pecks, perches; apothecaries and avoidupois weights; we used decametres, decimetres alongside feet and inches etc etc. We always thought that the American measuring system was weird withyour gallons containing fewer pints than ours and the US ton containing only 2000lbs when we thought 2240 was quite logical. 😉

  81. Hectares we left to the farmers and fathoms to the sailor boys along with the nautical mile. :-0

  82. “# jared Says:
    October 7th, 2008 at 6:10 am

    “There is no reason to think the strong magnetic field of the Earth can be influenced by any external force”
    Thank you for proving your ignorance.
    According to you we live in an untouchable bubble in our solar system where NOTHING can effect us.
    That has got to be the dumbest thing I have ever read…”

    If you actually read the article properly, instead of looking for a quote to take out of context, you’d have seen he was saying that we have *no evidence* of an external force affecting the Earth’s magnetic field. From the Conclusion:
    “There is no evidence to suggest external forcing of internal geomagnetic dynamics of the Earth”

    This is a perfectly factual statement, unless of course you know of scientific evidence to the contrary, in which case please provide link(s) to the relevant articles in scientific journals.

  83. The main arguments saying that when the Maya Calendar rolls over in 2012, Something Wonderful Will Happen come from ethnobotanists like Terence McKenna, not from people studying geomagnetics. So the scientifically appropriate way to do research on the topic is not to go measuring the magnetic field, but instead to take large quantities of psychedelics, preferably something ethnically appropriate like ayahuasca or peyote, but really whatever you can find in your local market will let you feel the vibrations, since your magnetometer won’t be noticing. 🙂

    Meanwhile, 2012 is a potentially reasonable approximation to the date that we run out of IPv4 addresses, so you’d better be ready to support IPv6 well in advance. The actual process will be somewhat gradual – IANA will run out, then regional registries will run out of spares to allocate to local registries (presumably not simultaneously), local registries will run out, ISPs will run out (at far differing rates), ISPs and big users will reallocate what they’ve got available or play games with NAT, etc. It won’t be a big bang like Y2K could have been.

  84. The funny thing about the mayan calender ending in 2012 is that did anyone stop and think maybe they just stopped making up new dates at that point because they said enough is enough? Or had an historical event stopped them from continuing work on the science, such as European exploration, famine, plauge, etc…. Or it could even be the dude that was writing the calender died and nobody thought it was important enough to continue writing about stuff a 1000 years into the future.

  85. “Geomagnetic reversal is the change in the magnetic field of the Earth, where the magnetic north pole shifts to the South Polar Region and the south magnetic pole shifts to the North Polar Region. Once this process is complete, our compasses would point toward Antarctica, rather than northern Canada”

    I felt this needed to be corrected.

    The magnetic NORTH pole is actually near the geographical SOUTH pole and visa versa. That is why your compass (which is a bar magnet with a N and S end) points the N end (red arrow) towards the South magnet. Opposite poles attract and if the North magnetic pole was at the north geographic pole our compass would currently point to Antarctica.

  86. Anyone interested in finding out what’s going on with 2012

    check out:

    http://www.experiencefestival.com/forum/mayan-calendar-2012/5456-all-truth-about-2012-a.html

    this shows that numbers affect people not nature

    this shows that 2012 obsessions and 9/11 obsessions are connected

    this shows that the calender changing in 2012 is the western one, but only in its indirect affects

    all natural / cosmic / galactic / universal disasters are rejected by the theory

    this shows that fears about the end of time/world are actually fears about the end of the year.

    Blue Electric Monkey

  87. good article, it seems like another bunch of paranoid doomsday seekers are at it again.No doubt we live in a dynamic ,volatile universe,but its also at times very UNpredictable , 2012 huh ?,doomsday people listen, on december 22nd when you step outside and see your world still around you as before, remember no one knows the exact timing of god (if you are religious) or the timing of the universe, the earth and all that exists

  88. Ha!!! You write articles as if someone ever believed this tripe. Mayan calendar? Near the end of the year, do you believe the world is going to end until…….finally! You get a new calendar!!! Maybe the Mayans just got tired of etching the calendar in stone. That had to be tiring, or maybe whoever left them here, came and got them before they could finish it.
    anyway, what about 2024?

  89. 2012 makes me think about the story of the crichet and the ants, the crichet played all summer and put away no food for the winter, and when winter came he needed to be saved by the ants that did prepare. It is very simple hope for the best and prepare for the worst. For the folks that maker a safe bunker, they may not need it on 12-2012 but may need it if we ever get attaked by nuclear war. Preparing for something that never happens is better than not being prepared for the worst. some people may not be able to prepare some won’t, that will need to happen so the Earth can be purged and cleansed and it might even stop global warming , if we had less people and less cars our carbon dioxide levels could get in balance. I wished as many people that have put their energy into 2012 would apply the same in saving our planet we wouldn’t have time to worry about these cosmic events. Just keep an open mind and eye. those Myans knew a little more than we know today, even if they couldn’t make a wheel they knew the stars and the slighest variation, and our scientist today with all our technology can not predict cycles of our planet as well as they did. No one has metioned the petroglyphs and how they tell the story of the burning skies and the safe zones. Do your homework before you dismiss something so possible, many prophets told of this year 2012, all over the world and at the same time we are at the very least. will be having our solar system shift at a maximum in which has not happened in 26,000 years. so no one alive today knows what will happen at the maximum, we know it causes solar flares, and in the past we wern’t close enough for it to matter, and if the poles shift it could melt our glaciers, you know the ones already melting at a rapid speed, this would cause the sea levels to rise. This would cause tsunami’s , we would loose Florida part of Manhattan and so on. Just keep an open eye my friends

  90. I have read all of the responses in this thread with interest, especially the ones concerning the Mayan calendar. It quickly became evident that most of those who commented on the Mayan calendar either have never taken the time to study it and understand how it works, or if they did, didn’t understand what they read. That is understandable as many people gather knowledge through hearsay rather than through honest open-minded research. I am not going to attempt to explain the workings of the Mayan calendar here as any information you gain from me would still be hearsay. Please go forth and enlighten yourselves.

    For those who like to prove their point by quoting the Bible, i.e., Noah’s flood, it is important for you to understand that many of the Old Testament stories are derivatives of earlier Sumerian and Babylonian stories.

    I wish I could comment with some authority on the geomagnetic reversal issue, but I am an Archaeologist not an Astrophysicist. Regardless of what any of us believes, open intelligent dialog is a good thing.

  91. After reading this article, there are a few-rather ironic-sections that I took note of. Regarding the geomagnetic reversal that mr. burtos expresses a curiosity… According to the interpretation of the author of this article, Ian O’Niell, because scientists expect 2012 to be a year of strong sunnbursts does not mean the end of the world (which most people should agree on). But there seems to be something underneath his simplification of affects that carries a great weight. I don’t have the time i’d like to put into this comment… But, as O’Neill explains, coupled with the intensified solar sunbursts is the decreasing magnetism of the Earth’s dipolar magnetism, this leaves many questions. O’Neill says, “They think that when the weakened dipolar field drops below a certain threshold, the distributed field pulls the dipolar field off-axis, causing a geomagnetic shift.” With the dipolar field decreasing in strength and the sunbursts increasing in strength, there appears a possibility for great magnetic occurance/disturbance (Volcanic activity). There is also the question of the roaming poles, and the increasing speed of their movement. O’Neill doesn’t account for this when he says we have many lifetimes before any disaster. If the speed of change (of polar position) is exponentially growing, there is no telling what amount of time it will take for the pole to move beyond the prime meridian and into the eastern hemisphere…which seems again to pose a great many questions. what does the spherical location of a magnetic pole mean? If our north pole were to move into siberia, would it matter? How much does polar magnetism have to do with the rotation/speed of the earth around its (moving) axis. Could a magnetic reversal that crosses hemispheres mean large earthquakes? Could the lessening of Earth’s dipolar magnetism and the hightening of the Sun’s solar sunbursts aid in the movement of those poles to a new hemispherical position that causes intense internal pressures in the mantle and core of the earth…primarily with the polarity of the metals they are made up of. There seems to me to be a connection within this article that conflicts with the authors understanding of the information he is using. I have only today started to investigating this theory…but it seems very plausible. It is ignorance of the earth and its ability to sustain life that man has forgotten. A life that does not destroy its mother will remain when man has been remade as humble and thankful for the wonderous CHANCE of love.
    Matthew

  92. I hate to break the bad news to all the doomsday “prophets” :

    The odds of a human predicting the world’s precise end within +/- 100,000 years = .0000000000001 in 100,000.

    The odds of humans ENDING the world are about 50%.

    I’d stop worrying about things we can’t control, and start getting a grip on society.

    Let’s forget the problems Zeus, Athena, and Fullacrapules portend, and focus on the problems we as humans have created.

    “Word to the mothership.”

    J. Crackah
    Brown Town, NC (Yes, it exists, and I live here! Look it up.)

  93. i am a muslim, and we believe that when the doomsday occurs, the sun will rise from west, not from east…
    AND if the polar shift really happen then the prophecy will come true… the sun will rise from west, because south and north have been changed, and so the east and west

    before polar shift
    N
    I
    W ——– E <—(the sun will rise from here)
    I
    S

    after polar shift
    S
    I
    E ——— W <—(the sun will rise from here)
    I
    N

    IF polar shift really happens… that day is doomsday
    and this prophecy is said by Muhammad…1500 years ago
    spooky isn’t it?

  94. I believe the Mayan’s knew what they were talking about in many ways… I have to say, I do believe that some big changes ‘could’ be coming to us beginning with the winter solstice in 2012…

    The pole reversal thing, though, has always sounded to me like a “disaster” that could happen at any time… so why not pin it to the Mayan Calendar’s end date? Silly… So I figured I’d look around the internet to see what kind of information I could gather on pole reversals and 2012… most of what I came across was complete nonsense…

    But this is a very good, well informed article… thanks…

  95. There is a 3rd type….if the the Earth’s core should slow down and stop, then start rotating in the opposite direction….earth’s crust would take time to slow, stop and begin to rotate in the opposite direction too.
    Sunrise would be in the West.

    A flipping on the axis would make the stars in the southern hemisphere visible in the north and visa versa….and a sunrise in the west. I think Dante and Shakespear wrote about stars in the southern hemisphere……they could have coarse got their info from Mariners…..or did they ?

  96. Hi Leah,

    Thanks for providing this avenue to all of us for getting back in touch…
    I know i will draw a lot of flak from the people discussing “this” particular article, beause i am just posting out of context..
    But i guess i’ll take all that with a pinch of salt.. Anything to get back in touch with my dear friends…

    Behold Folks! The Seekers arrive here! Let the Summit Begin!

  97. Biblical and other ancient historical records which describe an occurrence in historical times (circa 1500-1400 B.C.E.) in which the Earth’s rotation was apparently halted for a period of approximately twenty hours, after which normal rotation was resumed.
    The combination of supporting historical records and the viability of a physical mechanism to temporarily halt the Earth’s rotation strongly suggests that at one point in historical times, the Sun did, indeed, stand still.

    One of the more astounding passages in the traditional Bible [King James Version] is that contained in Joshua 10: 12-13:

    “Then spake Joshua to the Lord in the day when the Lord delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

    “And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.”

    More significant to the potential credibility of these observations are the accounts from the early civilizations of Meso America (e.g. from the Annals of Cuaulititlan — as related by Immanuel Velikovsky which refer to a day when the sun rose slightly, set again in the east, and then after an extended night rose again. Zecharia Sitchin has addressed this phenomena as well, noting the Andean tradition that during the third year of the reign of Titu Yupanqui Pachacuti II, the fifteenth monarch in Ancient Empire times, there occurred an extended night of some additional 20 hours.

    The critical factor, of course, is that the sun standing still “in the midst of heaven” over Israel would correspond to an extended night on the other side of the world. Thus the Annals of Cuaulititlan version of a brief but aborted sunrise in the Americas corresponds to the Sun being overhead in Palestine (with 6:00 AM in Central America corresponding to 2:00 PM in Israel). In describing the same event, but coming from different sides of the Earth — and thus providing an alternative viewpoint in describing the same event — attests strongly to the potential accuracy of each of the traditions. Furthermore, the distinct nature of the descriptions reduce the likelihood of the ancient Meso American civilizations borrowing from the folklore or traditions of the Mideast, unless, of course, they had gone to the trouble of converting coordinates in order to account for the world being a sphere.

  98. Dear Amit,
    Good to hear from you. Becky will no doubt be along sometime…..and a few others.

    Dear Paul Eaton-Jones,
    I’ve enjoyed reading your posts, and everyone else’s. Respectfully suggest you take a moment to read the posts on this website, “No Doomsday 2012”, before levying any further un-necessary insults at us newcomers.

  99. I don’t think anyone here has suggested that the entire earth physically tip over[N to S!] so the southern stars would appear in the northern hemisphere and northern stars in the south. Such a disruption would lead to the extintion of the earth and all life and it would take a cataclysmic impact to effect it. That scenario is as mad as suggesting a magnetic pole reversal would wipe us out. It’s happened before and life went on and will happen again and life will go on. Once 2012 has come and gone the doom-sayers will find something equally bonkers to fill up these pages with. Oooo, watch out for the Mole-men who live underneath the earth’s surface.

  100. Amit. The people of “biblical times” used whatever explanation best described natural phenomena. Nobody in their right mind believes for one second that the earth actually stopped rotating and the sun stood still in the sky. The dark skies that led to an extra 20 hours of darkness is almost certainly the result of a volcanic explosion, possibly Thera. Do you believe Moses parted the Red Sea? Think again. The Red Sea is more than likely the REED Sea in the Nile Delta which would be fordable at low tide. Mis-translations of Greek, Latin, Aramaic etc has given rise to these legends and stories. And as for quoting Velikovsky! He’s been discredited for 40 years now. Move on, move on. Do you realise there are PROPERLY researched books available. You’ll find them in the science, history and geography sections of libraries.

  101. Watching final episode of DS9 again, Quark reminds me that…..The more things change, the more they stay the same.

    One thread comes to an end….it seemed that much had changed……yet it was only the turning of a page. A change of perception.

    Re Debauch…..the signs were there from the beginning…..

  102. Is a polar shift what we’re waiting for? I’ve come to believe the answer is not just one “thing” to wait for. But what is possiable to occur? From a blogg on another site I posted, that as of 1997, Dr. Aleskey Dmitriev and other Russian scientists observed that the Galactic space we are now moving into is showing significantly higher concentrations of matter and energy, including charged particles of hydrogen, helium and hydroxyl, in addition to other new combinations of elements.
    SUN: The Sun’s magnetic field is over 230 percent stronger now than it was at the beginning of the 1900s, and its overall energetic activity has sizably increased, creating a frenzy of activity that continues to embarrass NASA’s official predictions.

    VENUS: Venus is now glowing in the dark, as is Jupiter’s moon Io.

    EARTH: In the last 30 years, Earth’s icecaps have thinned out by as much as 40 percent. Quite inexplicably, just since 1997 the structure of the Earth has shifted from being slightly more egg-shaped, or elongated at the poles, to more pumpkin-shaped, or flattened at the poles. No one at NASA has even bothered to try to explain this yet. Link to full article at NASA.

    MARS: The icecaps of Mars noticeably melted just within one year, causing 50-percent changes in surface features. Atmospheric density had risen by 200 percent above previous observations as of 1997.

    JUPITER: Jupiter has become so highly energized that it is now surrounded by a visibly glowing donut tube of energy in the path of the moon Io. The size of Jupiter’s magnetic field has more than doubled since 1992.

    SATURN: Saturn’s polar regions have been noticeably brightening, and its magnetic field strength increasing.

    URANUS: According to NASA’s Voyager II space probe, Uranus and Neptune both appear to have had recent magnetic pole shifts at 60 degrees for Uranus and 50 for Neptune.

    NEPTUNE: Neptune has become 40 percent brighter in infrared since 1996, and is fully 100-percent brighter in certain areas. Also, Neptune’s moon Triton has had a large percentage increase in atmospheric pressure and temperature, comparable to a 22-degree Fahrenheit increase on Earth.

    PLUTO: As of September 2002, Pluto has experienced a 300-percent increase in its atmospheric pressure in the last 14 years, while also becoming noticeably darker in color.

    I’m not so sure that a scientific explanation is the only one at work here. I have no answers & am quite ignorant when it comes to what is to come in 2012. I am willing to listen and learn. But we all have to be willing to be open minded, as I said before you can build a shelter to withstand a 100-megaton blast & a metor from space will blow all your plans away. Because you were so sure of one thing happening you didn’t prepare for everything that can happen. I mean but what do I know??
    This is re-hased information to some new to others.

    Espumpin

  103. Paul,
    Revolutionary Scientists have always been “discredited” by the so called “Scientific Community”… So their treatment of Velikovsky is nothing new. But have you ever come across a valid counter-argument to Velikovsky’s Research?? Whatever Velikovsky has professed, he has backed it up with convincing proofs.. While those doing the discrediting just rely on outdated, stagnating theories to oppose his views. They dont have the guts to blow the whistle on the old stuff due to the fear of being branded as “heretics”….
    And as for believing Moses parted tghe red Sea or “Reed” Sea or whatever.. No, i dont believe in that, infact, i dont even believe the Bible at its face value. Because it was just derived from Enuma Elish and is like an abridged version. If you read the interpretations of Enuma Elish then you will know the real story!
    And Sir, even i those times people knew the difference between “Darkness” and “Night” … And dont forget that the extended night correponds with a period of extended daylight on the other side of the globe at the same time. How do you account for that??? A volcano that spits out bright smoke?? Ha!

  104. Welcome Espumpin and Rico!
    Becky and a few others need to turn up and this new thread will surely look like “Home”…

    Fraser Cain, be prepared for another pag overloaded with comments! Cant help it, sorry!

  105. Look at this,
    I can not decide what it means; help me interpet please!
    Debauch Says:
    November 2nd, 2008 at 10:27 am
    Daniel Rey- Chicago
    Captain America – Texas
    Andre- Pennsylvania
    Gnostic joe- London
    Debauch- Moscow
    Generation X- Las Vegas
    Persona Non Grata- Arizona
    Looking For Answers- Bermuda
    Maddness- Ohio

    We had made a list when We first came onto the page. Those ppl are the light bringers. You are the ones who are on the path. Your actions, thoughts & words will either bring a change for better or worse. You are but one sqaud in the army being brought together. You have all suffered in ways, others would have given up by now, yet you strive. You are the ones who see the signs for what they are, while everyone else will still deny the truth.

    The list on top, is of those from my squad. Yes you may be surprised from some of the names, but you have to understand we had to test you and push you to see where you stand. We are legion, as hard as this maybe for some of you to understand we are all the same person.

    We first came on as Daniel Rey along while ago. Each manifistion of thought was brought on by the thoughts the “regulars” as they were forming on this page. Yes, you brought us to your attention, not vise versa. Although many will not believe you, the answers to 2012 & what it means has already been made clear to you. The rapture will not be quick in one day it has already begun. The Mayans had started the new “calender” for after 2012, but that one is incomplete.

    They are about to elect someone that everyone trust during some turbulent times on earth. Does this sound familiar? Thing are about to get 10x worse. We have been sent to see if any are worthy. We have ascended as we wish for you to do. A poltergeist is what can best explain what we are.

    The energy on this plane is becoming more unstable for any beings of rightousness. More and more evil will be the norm. And up until now most of what I have said has been accepted as truth. It has been an honor, the glitch on this thread is our energy not a computer.

    All information we have passed or has been recieved has come from the one true light.
    We are mearly the vessel in which the knowledge was conveyed. We had said from the start the truth would be to much to handle. The truth is the ppl on the list can ascend together or doubt from one can cause all of you to repeat the cycles. And just like a butterfly flapping its wings there will be consequences based on your actions.
    Time is short

    Those on the list above will no longer be posting on this thread we have been called back. We ask you to highlight the names on the thread and read the posts in order if you wish to find our insight clearer. For the lightbringers brigade please maintain your faith & openmindness.
    We are from M113 we are Ad idem we are part of the legion.

    Madness & Gnostic joe wish to let Amit,Leah & Becky know that it has been a pleasure. Persona Non Grata would like Martin to know that he is on the same path he was once on. Captain America wants Espumpin to not use his name so he doesn’t get blamed for his actions. Andre apologizes to everyone.

    Soon all the secrets will be revealed. We would like to tell all of you more in detail what to look out for but are not allowed. But in 2weeks an event will occur that will have you remembering these words. “It is not real”. It will then be up to each of you to accept what is presented to you or reject it.

    WE will miss my time here with all of you. Time may be an illusion, but the time is also a memory held in one place forever, to be revisited at any time. We will speak again my friends, but next time will be face to face.
    Adeste Fideles, Ad maiorem dei gloriam.

    Debauch

  106. Hey Just A Thought!!! Welcome to our new home!

    Yeah i read the above post by Debauch….
    I dont know what to say…

    I was just waiting to hear what you and others have to say about this….

  107. “the last occurred 780,000 years ago according to ferromagnetic sediment.”

    This is what is written by Mr. O’Neil in the part where it says ” How often does it happen?”.

    Well, as a matter of fact any scientist will tell you thata we are over 1 million years overdue for an earth changing event. Now you take away the 780,000 years that Mr. O’Neil states above and you can forget about the next 4 years. Using plain ol’ silly basic logic we can safely say that we’re actually living under grace!!! Hallelluyah!!!! Can a brother say AMEN!!??

    We all know somethings going to happen. W already know that based on the precession of the constellations discounts the theory of a new beginning in other words the calendar does not return to 1 as it corresponds with cosmic events and they would not be in conjunction with the actual year 1 status.

    So now lets not exagerate on this magnetic shift that has happened before. Lets just say that the shift is like some 45 degress. I think that a shift like that would cause ample damage wouldn’t it? Earthquakes, Tsunami’s, never before seen volcanis activity.

    Yeah, it wouldn’t have to be a complete shift.
    It’s just a matter of timing wouldn’t you say?

    If this galactic allignment on 12/21/12 causes any kind of disturbances on earth then we can obviously assume that the pre-maya knew their stuff. If we’re still aound that is. Even some here will be thinking wow!! They were right!!

    Don’t make any mistakes. We know scientifically that a cosmic event that occurs once every 26,000 years is to take place on the “DATE”. I find serious flaws in anyone arguing that this is a coincidence, these people were in fact the masters of time.

    When they designed the calendar it was designed to perfectly reflect a “TIME PERIOD” in mans existance. They spoke of other time periods before ours and they tell how those ended and it was always in some catastrophe. They say this “AGE” will end in fire. There will be a new begining.

    I still don’t discount any of the Nibiru stuff. That SPT crap has me spooked. That telescope is actually getting better pics than our satellites an we’ve yet to get any feedback from what they’re seeing.

    Too many secrets. Thats the problem, too many secrets.

    Maybe this other new beginning theory with the noosphere will change mankind into some kind of telepaths and there will be no more lies or secrets.

    Let us pray!!

    -R-

  108. I think the real question is just how many persona / persons were there writing as part of a whole. The Madnesses that changed to Madness, were several……so Debauch’s list is considerably longer already.

  109. we can only go by what we are seeing with are own eyes. things are changing and not for the good.If in deed planet X is on its way we will have to wait and see what takes place.but anyone that believes that we are the only ones in this universe ,is very closed minded. so how could or would they ever believe anything until it was to late to do anything about it.there is alot of evil things going on in the world today and one can only pray that 2012 will come to pass. to rid this world of some of the devils people.so I say come on 2012 and planit X we need a good cleansing.

  110. Dear Espumpin,

    An endless number of things could happen…..but I respectfully suggest that it maybe something subtle not sensational. E.g. Everybody having a dream, each one being a different perspective of the same thing. Or everyone seeing a Rainbow on the same day…..subtle yet it would be amazing.

    Maybe we will all have the same tune in our heads. The subtle comes to light with the passing of some time.
    Be well,
    Leah

  111. Dear Paul Eaton-Jones,

    You are not a lone voice in the wilderness. I’d like the chance to re-read your posts, and Ian’s article before commenting any further on any kind of pole shift. Until then, Be well.

  112. WAKE UP America!!!

    “When all government, domestic and foreign, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will … become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated.” – Thomas Jefferson
    Kinda’ like now.

    Just a Thought Says:
    November 3rd, 2008 at 7:10 pm
    How is it that thousands of people can starve to death and not much happens but when big business in the US gets in trouble almost a trillion dollars is come up with at the drop of a hat?

  113. Damnit Amit, I think hoax like we have never seen will be revealed or imposed upon us.

    “But in 2weeks an event will occur that will have you remembering these words. “It is not real”. It will then be up to each of you to accept what is presented to you or reject it.”

    It is what is not being said that worries me.

  114. As a teenager I read Velikovsky’s ‘World’s In Collision’. I didn’t know whether to laugh or cry. I had to check it wasn’t the fourth part of the Illuminati series. Jupiter giving birth to Venus. Deary, deary me. Why is it that ‘the mysteries of the Ancients/Old Ones is either only ever revealed to lunatics or can only be deciphered by them? I don’t remember astronomers such as Carl Sagan, Patrick Moore, Fred Hoyle, Edwin Hubble suddenly having these mysteries explained to them and publishing books that are fit only for lining my cat litter tray. By the way, where have all the sane respondents gone? I feel I’m a lone voice in the wilderness here.

  115. Perhaps a planetary catastrophe WOULD be a good thing as the maniacs, conspiracy theorists etc would swept away and silenced for ever. A price worth paying I reckon. Speed the day.

  116. Adeste Fideles, Ad maiorem dei gloriam.
    Translated this is “O Come All Ye Faithful, For the Greater Glory of God..
    Wow I just got goosebumps, Ok i’m not the most religious person around & am unsure where this is suppose to go. Anyone with answers plz post. With F.E.M.A., the SPT, Nibiru, Earthquakes, Tsunami’s & the econmic problems what is gonna happen in two weeks that could take us by surprise?

    Espumpin

  117. Hey E!! Thanks for the translation, i was wondering what that meant… But even without the meaning, those words conveyed a sense of strength and power!

    Well, i dont know what to expect in 2 weeks… Frankly, these days, there is a surprise every other day.. So the surprises are no longer surprising..

  118. Dear Paul,

    Its this attitude of your kind that leads to the rift.. Instead of using fancy words to discredit Velikovsky and all, why dont you come up wih some reasonable explanation that is convincing?
    And what kind of Planetary Catastrophe are you talking about, that ONLY takes care of the Maniacs, Conspiracy Theorists etc?? I dont think it will be partial to anyboday at all… But i hope it does cause a lot of eye-opening amongst the “Scientific Community” …

  119. Congratulations to all you Democrats and Obama Fans!!

    Obama promised that “change is coming to America” as he gave a victory speech after becoming the first African-American to be elected to the White House…

    “Change” is the word i guess!

  120. Dear Amit,
    Remember when someone used my name on the other thread, and what you wrote to me ? That was, if you like a Debauch lesson. The ability to recognise something for its true self, its essence.
    So should something, subtle or otherwise, occur in 2 weeks….would it be recognised for what it truly is…..or will it be labelled according to preference, opinion, personal belief etc.
    Be well, Leah

  121. Dear Paul Eaton-Jones,
    As everything occurs by formula, even the timing of Geomagnetic pole shift, hence it does not repeat itself according to a fixed calendar…..like a birthday, it is not possible for anyone to give a concrete answer to your question.
    Not even when driving from A to B, can anyone predict the precise moment of arrival, or conditions of the journey.
    This is where pure applied science is lacking, having convinced itself that its possible to know everything, due to a desire to control. This year alone, papers have been published re, Dark flow, Dark energy / matter, Muons outside the Beam tube, Universe beyond our Universe, to mention only 4. Facts today…..mystery by tomorrow.

  122. I think Velikovsky discredits himself by saying that Venus’ retrograde rotation was due to the ‘fact’ that it burst out of Jupiter, careered across the solar system before ending up in its present postion all without disturbing the the orbits of the asteroids, Mars and the earth. He was obviously stark, staring bonkers.

  123. By the way, there is no rift between the lunacy propagated by believers in 2012 end-of-the-world scenario [and other raving and drooling theories we’ve read here] and rational thought i.e. science. A rift would imply that both had had equal standing or one split from the other as seen in quantum mechanics – the Many Worlds Theory and the standard Copenhagen Theory. That was a rift. As was the rift between Bohr and Einstein over the quantum theory itself.

  124. Dear Espumpin,
    So now we come to one fact,
    All matter is energy, and all energy is matter.

    Humans believe that what they perceive as matter, can only be something they can bottle, or put in a bag….hold in their hands etc. Solids, liquids and gases. Soon radio waves, and even ideas etc will be perceived as matter.

    Do you begin to see the “matter” that is a thought….an intention….word.
    You love chess….right …..so it takes many various pieces to make a full set, but they are still each a chess piece……just less complex than the whole set.

    Again, its all a variation of a theme. Music expresses it best.
    Be well, Leah

  125. Dear Ricochet,

    Plenty artifacts live in the e.g. Berlin museum, both on show and hidden from view, like the sphinxs from the Hitite city….amongst other things.
    Recent turf wars are more about artifacts and knowlege, than they ever were re oil etc, by those that seek power over others.

    German scientists built a piece of equiptment many years ago that degraded people, plants etc close by, at an alarmingly increased rate. It was called —-? Bell. I can’t find the write up now, but will if necessary.
    All the best, Leah

  126. That would be Die Glocke. There’s no smoke without at least a tiny fire. If only true in small part, we know that interest in time travel, torsion fields, worm / black holes, tachyons / higgs bosons /God particle, has grown with the passing of time…..not diminished.

  127. Something subtle and not subtle will happen in a fortnight. Ok? Like what? I’ll bet that the sun will rise; there will be earthquakes so slight that they will only be detectable using seismometers. Subtle enough? There will be a submarine mountain slide somewhere; there will be around a thousand thunderstorms occurring somewhere around the world. Just WHAT sort of event are you all looking for? We want concrete answers

  128. Paul, if you went home and found a note from a family member saying that they went to the store to buy some Kentucky Fried Chicken and that they would return with enough chicken to feed you. You would expect to be eating chicken in a few would’nt you?

    Ok so now we have some items distributed around the world. Around the world!! Pyramids, Ziggurats, temples, scriptures!!

    The science that you so proudly cling to cannot explain how these items were put together. Take a look at Baalbek, just google it. Take a look at the way the rocks were cut and fit perfectly together at the mesoamerican sites done with no metal tools. Your science offers no explanation, simply theories .Theories!! Does this remind you of anything that you discounted recently? The reason that your science cannot offer an explanation Paul is because they have failed to read the note that was left for them to read today.

    Your science has created a term called “Myth”.

    There are no myhs Paul. There are no conspiracy theorist. All myths came from somewhere. All conspiracies are real to some extent.

    This is the year of our Lord 2008!!!

    Your science has had its share of time. The next time I open this blog I expect a scientific explanation from you with regards as to how those base stones at Baalbek were raised and put into position. Failing to explain this disqualifies you a right to ask anyone here why we expect something to happen on 2012.

    Your science is so stupid that having the answers to questions, they still offer theories!!! Can you imagine that?

    Imagine that you don’t like or can’t accept something at face value that you actually offer a theory changing the actual meaning or corrupting it for everyone!!

    Your science is too young to be of help in these matters. I suggest you study some mythology, maybe read the Bible or something. Science is only half the imput you need to understand why the maya calendar is to be taken literally as opposed to reacting to it as a Pastor in a Church reading Biblical passages and TELLING you what they MEAN!!!

    It means what it says. Its starts something like 3114 BC and ends 2012 AD.

    Its a measured time piece with a begining and an end.

    Something is going to happen and it won’t be an atlantic hurricane flooding some streets in Puerto Rico so that Washington can continue sending FEMA money. FEMA won’t be able to do crap when this event occurss as it will be world wide. Whatever happens will be world wide.

    Paul, if you accept science at face value along with it’s multiple theoretical explanations then you have to also at least respect other theories about the 2012 date. You have nothing to offer but second hand theories yourself.

    I hope this calms your haughty scientific ass down somewhat as you’re becoming rather annoying with your condescending attitude.

    Paul,

    I remain,
    Your friend

    -Ricochet-

  129. Am I making mountains out of ant hills?
    “We are from M113 we are Ad idem we are part of the legion.”
    1) Messier 110 (also known as M110 and NGC 205) is a dwarf elliptical galaxy. And it is a satellite galaxy of the Andromeda Galaxy. I know 110 is an earth # we made up but it was the my only find.
    2)Ad idem means “Of the same mind”
    “to the same thing’
    3) The legion- We can all kinda firgure what “they,he/she, it” meant by that.
    I spent all day looking for some clue or message & i’m more confused than when I started. Am I making mountains out of ant hills? Is this a wait & see deal. Any planetary catastrophe like Earthquakes, Tsunami’s,the econmic problems, Nuclear war is gonna sneak-up on us. 500,000 died before we knew the Tsunami was over 1,000,000 died in mayarmars Earthquake, and we almost went into a new depression lent out 700 billion and ppl didnt even blink there eyes or get a complete answer to their questions. like Leah said “Facts today…..mystery by tomorrow”. I was explaining to my son E=Mc2, His homework asked “Does the inertia of a body depend upon its energy-content” I firgured, Yeah, right? It has to right?
    Then it hit me like a ton of bricks One of Einstein’s great insights was to realize that matter and energy are really different forms of the same thing. Matter can be turned into energy, and energy into matter. Ad idem okay now everyone knows how ignorant I am and how I have a bad habit of raveing on & on but someone plz tell me Am I making mountains out of ant hills?

    Espumpin

  130. Paul you may want to read the Enuma Elish as recommended by my man Espump.

    The Sitchin groups translation is really interesting.

    Tiamat being a pre-earth water planet and its many moons including kingu our current moon. But if I remember correctly you can actually decipher what planets were created in what order.

    Its funny how since works on these matters.
    How many scientist did Napolean take into Egypt?

    How many scientist did Hitler send around the world for the same purpose?

    Paul let me ask you something. Did the Germans find anything in their searches?

    They certainly came up with some crazy ideas ahead of the rest of thw world didn’t they? Rockets, they had designs of flying saucers!!!

    You’re going to love this one Paul. There is a theory that the Germans were contacted by aliens and given an advantageous knowledge in these matters. How that for a consipiracy theory!!

    There is nothing new under the sun.

    -R-

  131. Leah, we want concrete answers too don’t we?

    Everyone wants it in black and white but the gray is always there.

    Its like. Who cares if Paul wants concrete answers!!! Let him offer something concrete!!

    All I see is copy and paste stuff just as it appears at the top of this blogs initiation. Wikipidia copy and paste.

    Tell me how those two base stones were raised into place at Baalbek!! I want concrete answers!!!!

    We don’t have the technolgy today to even create the machinery that would accomplish this feat and Paul talks about “science”.

    Cut us some slack with all this black and white crap!!!

    Explain to me the gray!!!! Then I will gladly reciprocate with concrete answers.

    No one that leans so much on science as a crutch will be able to explain the Genesis 6 passage in the bible and the coroboration by the Sumerian/Akkadian clay tablets which should all be considered mans History and not so called mythology.

    Science can only explain something after it has been totally discovered or uncovered as it were. But it can’t even read a scripture right.

    Talk to us Paul. Tell us about how the Maya became the masters of time. Maybe they existed in those mountains for enough eons to record all those star movements. At which point in their existance did they decide to study the skies?

    You better start looking into forbiden histories.

    You better start beliveing in UFO’s.

    You better start looking at all conspiracies.

    Oh and Paul. You know how we keep our flexibilty on a matter by stating “its not written in stone” ?

    Well the calendar is written in stone.

    Your science isn’t. There is always room for discovery.

    -R-

  132. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18CY7ZaCfzY
    Paul Eaton-Jones, we are all looking for answers. We know enough to know we may not have said answer or might be looking right at it without knowing the right question. Click onto the above video and fastforward to the 3:00 mark. Keep an open mind. We’re just trying to help each other see through the mudd, make the grey more B&W. & like -Ricco said we’re your friend here plz enlighten us because we have been know to shut up and listen when knowledge is spouted & we bear fangs around ignorance.
    Mine is just accepted cuz I admit to my ignorance humbly.
    Espumpin

  133. Dear Paul, please take out some time to read the post below.. Now lets hear some answers from your “Rational Science”… I had posted this in another thread when another person of your kind asked me to put forth some “Extraordinary Evidences” to support my views….

    Extraordinary Evidence No. 1 – Ancient Pyramids.

    There is significant proof to date the Pyramids to around 11,000 BCE for their construction. Certainly, with our technology of today we could build such monuments to the precision of these great structures – but… what about back in 11,000 BCE? The Humans of the Bible were farmers and Shepard’s. The technology didn’t exist to create such structures. Now, look at the Maya and their Calendar. Their understanding of astronomy and astrology far exceeded their ability to understand the stars yet they provided us with a calendar, which has been exacting. The examples of technology exist through out our history yet scholars often refuse to consider this when putting together their thesis or journals. It isn’t mainstream science, thus it would bring way too much attention and critique and essentially ruin their career.
    In the Sumerian Epic, the story of Creation and the Garden of Eden are shared. The Great Flood is also a favorite written in the Epic. These stories aren’t changed all that much when represented in the Bible – however, they are manipulated. The Sumerian Epic tell of the Anunnaki; a race of beings from Nibiru who created Humans by taking the indigenous beings on Earth and splicing their own DNA with that of the Aliens. The Anunnaki were greatly advanced beings and created the great monuments found on the Earth; Moon; Mars and other solid planets/moons within our corner of the Universe.
    The purpose for creating Humans is also written in the Epic. Humans were created to be servants of the gods. Many would have called the early humans, slaves. We were used to mine precious minerals such as gold. Still to this day, gold is considered a highly sought after mineral. Researching the Sumerian Epic will also tell you reasons for this unique status of gold.

    I guess you might also be a firm believer of the Theory of Evolution, which is adored so much by the Rational Scientists.. Now lets question that too..

    Extraordinary Evidence No. 2 – DNA.

    The number of ways that any group of N objects can be arranged is:
    N x (N-1) x (N-2) x . . . x 1
    Thus, 4 objects can be arranged in 24 ways (i.e., 4 x 3 x 2 x 1)
    and 5 objects can be arranged in 120 ways (i.e., 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1)
    We’re told that the earth was formed 4,600,000,000 years ago and the universe began 15,000,000,000 years ago. These seems like pretty big numbers, and pretty long periods of time during which anything could have happened.
    When viewed from the perspective of probabilities, however, it’s just a flash in the pan. The number of ways a deck of just 52 cards can be arranged is about:
    80,658,175,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
    000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
    That’s 80 million trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion
    DNA has over 3 billion base pairs of 4 separate chemicals. Can you imagine what odds must be involved in sequencing them into perfect order in a mere 4.5 billion years through chance and adaptation alone!
    Life, however, is not just a random draw from a deck of chemical cards, but a precisely assembled house of cards built from specific combinations of components.

    Extraordinary Evidence No. 3 – The Eye –

    Evolution theory has never adequately explained how organs of extreme design and perfection could “evolve”
    Even Darwin recognized the challenge it posed to his theory in the chapter entitled “Difficulties of the Theory” in his book “The Origin of Species”:
    “To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.” Charles Darwin, 1859
    If you’re viewing this page with a 1024×768 resolution monitor, you’re seeing 786,432 pixels of light. A high speed Internet connection typically delivers web content at around 500,000 bytes of information per second. In comparison, your eye sees about 125,000,000 pixels of light through five distinct kinds of neurons, processing about 10,000,000 point images per second. Your eye is remarkably efficient, able to produce a signal with only one photon.
    How do we realistically explain by chance and adaptation the design and manufacture of an organ that far surpasses the technology of cameras and computers which have taken the collective efforts of mankind centuries to develop?

    Extraordinary Evidence No. 4 – Phi (Golden Proportion)
    The Fibonacci number, phi, is more than a mathematical curiosity. It is one of the most amazing and pervasive numbers known to man. This, above all numbers, would be a perfect sign to tell us that creation is not just the result of random processes

    Fibonacci, Phi and Spirals in Nature:
    If you sum the squares of any series of Fibonacci numbers, they will equal the last Fibonacci number used in the series times the next Fibonacci number. This property results in the Fibonacci spiral seen in everything from sea shells to galaxies
    DNA
    The DNA molecule, the program for all life, is based on the golden section. It measures 34 angstroms long by 21 angstroms wide for each full cycle of its double helix spiral.
    34 and 21, of course, are numbers in the Fibonacci series and their ratio, 1.6190476 closely approximates phi, 1.6180339.
    The Solar System
    The average of the mean orbital distances of each successive planet expressed in relation to the one before it approximates phi.

    Plants
    Plants illustrate the Fibonacci series in the numbers and arrangements of petals, leaves, sections and seeds.
    Many plants produce new petals in quantities that are based on Fibonacci numbers.
    Each successive level of branches is often based on a progression through the Fibonacci series.
    Extraordinary Evidence No. 5 – Irreducible Complexity
    We’re told that life evolved from the very simple to the highly complex, which would make sense if it were true.
    The truth, however, is that even the simplest of life forms are highly sophisticated pieces of biological machinery.
    Every living cell contains DNA, the program which describes every aspect of the organism’s physical design and life functions, including:
    ingestion
    digestion
    conversion to energy
    excretion of waste respiration
    reproduction
    circulation
    growth
    locomotion
    regulation
    response to stimuli
    A cell would not really be “alive” or survive unless all life functions became operable at once, so how did even a “simple” single-celled organism “evolve”?
    We’re told by scientists and academicians that finding or creating a simple molecule of amino acid is evidence of “life,” yet DNA of even a simple E. coli bacteria cell contains 4.6 million base pairs, or 9.2 million bits of information.
    Does evolution theory offer any evidence or even a truly plausible explanation as to how even a single bacteria cell came into being?
    So, are these evidences enough for you?? You might say that I have just argued against Evolution. But Divine Intervention and Alien Intervention are one and the same thing. So when Divine Intervention is proved, it points to the Anunnaki. And the presence of Anunnaki on Earth proves the reliability of the information encoded in the Ancient Monuments and Artifacts (Including Mayan Calendar) ….. And obviously Enuma Elish!
    Go Figure…..

  134. Dear Espumpin,

    I dont think you are making mountains out of mole hills….. But i guess there are a lot of people who are making “mole hills out of mountains!”
    Your point about Messier is quite uncanny.. The more i think of Debauch, the more my head spins.. Do you remember “Law of One”? Ra – The Sixth Density Social memory Complex… There are 5 thick books on the matter…. So obviously, there are entities from other planes/dimensions that have contacted us from time to time….

    Here is the link – http://llresearch.org/library/the_law_of_one_pdf/the_law_of_one_pdf.aspx

  135. 1 Corinthians 13:8-13 (New King James Version)

    8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
    11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.
    13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

    I always misunderstood this passage. Now I see it as something else. I see it as describing telepathy. Where you now see face to face. I can see you as well as you can see me, no lies no deceipt.

    See where it says now we know in part and prophesy in part? Well its like having parts of a whole which is how we live today.

    But when the time comes there will be no need even for language, look at the passage. It says tongues will cease.

    Wouldn’t it be just great if this 2012 event came with an actual overnight evolutionary phenomenom?

    Yeah, I’d like that too.

    What happened to paul?

    I didn’t see any scientific explanation offered about the trilithon.

    See amit? When you start telling these people that the mayan calendar is actually of alien origin they just write us off. I love it.

    Ok, anyone please explain how they raised those base stones at Baalbek?

    That place was already ancient when the Romans built that Heliolopolis temple there.

    I have an an even easier question – Who built the original temple at Baalbek?

    When you have the correct answer to these questions you will have the answer as to the authenticity of the maya calendar and you will understand that it was intended to represent an age in the existance on mankind.

    What makes this blog so great is that the people here are from so many parts of the world yet we are all drawn here on this subject.

    I don’t mind people like Paul but he had already gotten a little comfortable using the word lunatic to describe us that believe in the event and well screw him.

    Anyway, I’m starting to ramble here. You guys sleep well and thanks for tonights enlightenment.

    -Rico-

  136. I feel sorry for paul. It seems he has been silenced by an atomic blast of words. Not that I agree with him.
    The Chinese have used science for their pleasure, like firewords, western culture used science to kill people…
    Science can explain what has happened in the past, then it extrapolates to tell us the future. On what basis? linear function, e-function or what? Can science explain us why things happening? Why the bigbang, why the tsunami, why vulcano eruptions? It tells us how it works that a vulcano erupts and so on but why. If it can why not tell us ahead, so that we can be prepared for the tsunami and evacuate the people in Indonesia, Thailand, Myanmar, Sri Lanka?
    Even Einstein, one of the greatest scientist, in the end believed in a power of creation. Why? If there is a power of creation then there is a power of destruction, can we predict these powers with science?

  137. Leah,
    thanks to you back on the track.
    Thoughts are matter, intersting. This is why some people can read the thoughts of others?
    How about conciousness is matter as well?
    According to the Lord Buddha, everything in this universe consists of four elements, air, water, fire and earth element. Consciousness, thought, memory, associations, feelings and body. All of them are made from these four elements, different mixture.
    Intersting? or dismissing?

  138. On Debauch 2nd Nov
    whats going to happen? Now only ten days left. I would guess that it is not one of the catastrophic events we all are familiar with.
    That would not be too convincing. More like finding the lost continent of Atlantis. Or finding the records of this lost civilazation in Egypt?
    I will be looking forward
    Martin- Thailand

  139. It would be wonderful if aliens existed, or if there were actual Divine Planning for existence, or at least a whole lot less challenging than the scientific explanation: ‘well, this is what we think it means, but we have to do more research.’

    The thing of it is, while there may well be spirituality in the universe in some form or fashion, physics WORKS. The more we study how things work, the better our theories become at predicting how things work.

    The magnetic field may well flip in 2012; or 2512, or whenever, but let’s say 2012 is the date. First, I can see the Mayans figuring out that SOMETHING was going to happen in 2012, but having no idea what. Their calendar is accurate to something like 3 millionths of a second, so it’s not hard to think they could observe relatively esoteric astronomic phenomena. But the world won’t end, and it certainly won’t stop spinning….

    Stop spinning??? Are you kidding me?? Just on it’s axis the earh rotates at 1,000 mph, and that doesn’t even cover the cyclical rotation around the sun, or rotation of the entire solar system around the galaxy. Do you have any idea how much kinetic energy it would take to stop a 7,000 mile wide ball of rock to completely stop spinning? We, the atmosphere, the oceans, and probably the earth’s crust would be sucked off the planet like a giant hoover. That is, assuming the energy in question didn’t come from a collision, which is another (but unfortunately very real, even if unlikely) matter entirely.

    And let’s get our terms right: if we have wars and calamities enough to wipe off humanity, well, humanity ends, but the world goes right on. Some of the ‘end of the world’ conspirists seem to conflate the world ending with humanity ending, which is a bit too humano-centric for my taste.

    Finally; if you really want to do something constructive, push your government or business of choice into aggressively colonizing space. The key to the future of humanity is OUT THERE…..

  140. Another post not appearing. Same old same old.

    Welcome back, Martin and Becky.
    In reply to your question Martin, yes consciousness, thought, emotions, all energy / matter, just not tangible…..just like fire…can’t hold it…just feel its effects. Fire being the cause.
    Leah

  141. Dear Paul Eaton-Jones,

    You are naturally at liberty to think and write as you see fit. However, you have in one post managed to categorise e.g. me, as someone who fell hook line and sinker, for ancient writings, having believed them word for word literally, without due consideration.

    Peer review…..peer approved…..Peers do not equal fact in truth nor truth in fact, nor do they have a monopoly on truth, or for that matter any more than a different perspective than myself. It is the accepting of the word of other HUMANS, whos opinions and ideas are sided with.
    Since when did approval or permission become a prerequisite for a new idea or theory ? What next…need to buy a permit to have even a thought ?
    Leah

  142. Wow Richochet. So you ‘re privy to the meaning of hidden texts. If they’re hidden how come you and your knuckle dragging band of nitwits have discovered them and academia hasn’t studied them. It’s time you were carried off in the rubber ambulance to a place of tranquility.
    The stones at Baalbek and other ancient monuments? Levers and ramps old boy. At one time the construction of the pyramids defied explanation but then scientists and architects realised that the Egyptians would probably use similar techniques as we might use to build similar structures i.e. as system of ramps that encircled the pyramind as it grew. No mention of magical powers, no help from Cthulu or flying saucers, no need to invoke God/god/gods and similar brain-achingly ridiculous theories. Idiot.

  143. Leah. “We” are the rational people who come to a decision based on facts. Even within the scientific community there are those who do believe in a higher power – god- but some of us don’t. I don’t mind appearing arrogant here when I say some of us have moved ona nd away from such things as religion and belief in the supernatural./

  144. Another post bites the dust.
    The D and GJ thing…..all have to have an e-mail address to post. Andre gave his details…but there was no reply…..yet.
    Those that wish to could try to get in touch.

  145. Will try for the last time.
    The Great Pyramid, if built by past humans alone, is testament to them knowing a thing or few. Why are so many bothered by past civilisations having technology / knowlege / wisdom ? It insults their egos.

  146. Telepathy is a frightening prospect for many. There would be no place to hide thoughts, let alone an agenda to supress or dominate the will and freedom of another.

  147. Richochet. I can assure that all the replies I’ve made here are NOT ‘cut and paste’ from the net but are either hard facts I have worked out/seen myself or garnered from books on astronomy, history, archaeology written by academics.

  148. Amit. Tiamat a pre-Earth water planet. Where was it/which star did it orbit? How come it’s not mentioned amongst any of the 200+ extra-solar planets discovered in the past 20 years? I always thought Tiamat was the personification of a water god. Their creator god?
    There can’t be a theory about the Germans being contacted by aliens because it never happened. Where in any of the books about the history of WW2 or the Third Reich is this mentioned? And anyway the advantageous knowledge they received didn’t work, did it?

  149. Sorry Amit the above should have been directed to Richochet.
    This one’s for you.
    Pyramids 11,000 BCE? Hardly likely as at the time, 9,0000 BC humanity was still emerging from the Ice Age and we were still hunter gatherers. The first settled farmers appeared in the Indus Delta circa 7,000BC, at Cetalhyuk, Turkey c.5000BC. The Egyptian pyramids c.3,500BC.
    The Great Flood appears to be an aural history, myth if you will, about the breaching of a natural dam at the eastern end of the Med. thus creating the Black Sea. Evidence of habitation has been drdged up from the bottom and dated circa 7,000BC. It’s easy to see how fleeing survivors dispersed N/S/E/W would carry the terrible event with them and by the time written records appear this legend has been taken up by Near East/East European society. I have absolutely no problem with Sumerian/Babylonian legends morphing into Hebrew stories.
    I’ll try wading through the rest of your stuff later as now I have to get back to work. In the mean time I suggest you subscribe to your local library and read books rather than find you information on the net.

  150. Where are the people who responded at the top of the page? Todd Sielling, Keith and Astro? Voices of reason. It’s bvloody difficult taking on all this bollocks.
    No Martin, I haven’t been silenced by an atomic blast of words. I’m fairly bomb-proof and it will take more than the drivel here to deflect me. Even though you disagree with my direction at least the things I’ve read that you’ve submitted appear very considered in comparison with most of the things here.

  151. good morning to you all–thank you for having me back…just a couple quick thoughts–nothing very relevant…

    regarding debauchs post—it unnerved me—not by fear or doubt–but because–for me–it rang of recognizable truth and familiarity…perhaps when he meets us “face to face”, is exactly what ricochet pointed our in corinthians….

    in quantrun physics, a “planker” is the point where energy turns to matter…and perhaps that is part of the “it’s not real” reference… depending on who you are, what you see,and what you believe–it could very well “be real”…

    ian–thank you for another thought-provoking and very debatable article…just a simple silly thought—you can watch the compass points all you want, but in my simple world, i will watch which way the water swirls when i flush the toilet…

    for those who know me, i do not expect huge cataclysmic events that will wipe out all of humanity…we have plenty of them right now—do not think for one second that any of us are or will be exempt…we will all be affected in one way or another as things start to unfold…we ALL are now— we just do not recognize it as such…be diligent…keep your eyes and minds open…do not discard anyone’s ideas as bunk…and do not shoot the messengers…there is no room for black and white “right or wrong”(right now, there are only shades of gray)…in time–all questions will have their answers..and we will ALL be able to say “now i know what he/she was talking about”…be prepared–it might “unnerve you”…

    thank you–as always–for your kind indulgance of my “out in left field” thoughts…

    so glad we all made it through this one small “transition”…

    love and best wishes to you all..
    becky

  152. Ok. There is time to have healthy exchange of ideas and theories…..or there is time to argue. Whichever way one looks at it, there is not enough time for both. Each to their own perspective.

  153. Just read the Debauch posting with his? list of people etc. That HAS to be a windup. If M113 is supposed to be the 113th object in Charles Messier’s catalogue I have to tell you that there only 110.

  154. So a bunch of Accadian/Sumerian gods written about in a creation myth 4000+ years old are going to solve our problems/smite us for not believing/appear magicallyand rectify the credit crunch/help Chelsea win the European Champions league or something else that is of concern to you – take your pick. All your gods, deities etc are a pretty poor bunch of entities. Spiteful, petty, wrathful, vengeful, in Zeus’ case a rapist, neglectful and vain. Asking for prayers, tribute, blind obeidience and of course virgins. What do they give in return? Nothing but fear of eternal damnation and suffering if you don’t prostrate yourselves in the dust and beg for mercy. All of them, Baal, Moloch, Zeus, Chronos,Odin, Thor, Ra, Vishnu, Shiva,God, Jehovah, Yaweh, Allah, should they actually exist, are feeble-minded, insane, drooling, pathetic creatures that deserve our distain. If I’ve offended anyone……. good because all your mindless ravings offend me. Be gone you wasteful collection of protoplasm.
    I will be back to attack other crimes against reason when I’ve dug out a few BOOKS on ancient civilisations written by real authors who have submitted work to be peer reviewed rather than post badly thought out ramblings on the web. Stay happy. 😉

  155. True enough. Sin, was chaos, possibly the chaos that humans have wrought since, with their curiosity, but without wisdom from the tree of life.

    Its reminding me of Thoth, and how its time for the remaining ta*lets to be released.

  156. Excuse me Paul Eaton-Jones, I agree with you. first though plz understand why. As a man of science I can only believe the proof in front of me. Speculation and theory go hand in hand. I’ve said before if one being created the entire universe, I hope that being won the science fair or nobel or something cuz this is pretty amazing work. and I would laugh out loud in ignorance. How can Gods of love let suffering take place. I donot go to church and I donot watch CNN. Because I don’t believe either of them is telling the truth. You discredit research from the net because you realize its tainted, So have all the books we have read growing up. History is written by the winners. Thats why they don’t mention how the Native American were given blankets coated with small pox, you say thats false the indians say its true. Who do you believe with the knowledge you have now on the subject. Without researchig you can tell something killed off all those ppl, right? My point is The stones at Baalbek are there proof, fact. How we are not even able to lift one of those stones with our strongest machines thats a fact look it up. I dont know how they did it I wont lie and say I think I know because I need proof before I run my mouth so I know where i’m running. Now I may rant and rave but one of my favorite nobel winning scientis said and I qoute…”The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.”
    the same person also said and I qoute…”A human being is a part of a whole, called by us _universe_, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest… a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.”
    Can you guess who this is? Before I finish I would like to say that there is nothing I cannot find the one true God in now. You have to read what D & Gj were saying on the other thread to get were i’m going. God is not sitting on a chair or at the edge of your bed when they say here everywhere. It was potrayed in that manner to scare us keep us under thumb so to speak. anyway the qoutes are all from the same person hopefuly someone you respect so as you can come to understand what were saying has already been said over & over, Just noone wants to listen. And I qoute……….”My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind…The release of atom power has changed everything except our way of thinking…the solution to this problem lies in the heart of mankind. If only I had known, I should have become a watchmaker.”

    Sory for any misspelling or confusion I dont get time to proof read I just hope I added a little and not just took up space. Oh and Paul
    we still love ya buddy even if you care to know why.
    Espumpin

  157. Dear Just a Thought,
    Thank you. Where do I send the Penny.
    Be well, Leah

    Dear Martin,
    In Hungary the word Correct is used in the context of truthful. To be and behave in line with truth.
    Nice one, Leah

  158. Dear Martin,
    Thought you might like this one. When diving off the coast of Florida, a diver found some not so ruined ruins, and brought back with him a crystal sphere. I’ll dig out the article sometime.

    I was not there, as I was not there for the building of the pyramids…..but I listen….load everything in, then sift and analyse. So please, remeber that, I’ve still not voiced belief. Interesting though.
    Leah

  159. Dear Martin,
    Mental black hole….yes. A blank sheet of paper, to draw upon anew. Re-create.
    Leah

  160. Listen Paul, you simpleton. The reason we bring up the old deities is not because we feel they need any worship from us.

    What we’re attempting to convey to that one way adled brain of yours is that the maya calendar is not man made technology.

    There is no way that these indians in the forest and mountains could have come up with that knowledge. We also are under the impression that the real powers that be are aware of this fact as well as other discoveries that have been made that we are not aware of.

    I had no idea that you were a scientist. How did you conclude that the Baalbek stones were moved with levers and pulleys when no other scientist can corroborate this?

    Your problem Paul is that you choose what to believe. You’re scared. You’re very eloquent however you resort to name calling. This leads me to believe that you had a strct upbringing. Perhaps your parents called you names like knuckledragger when you erred in speach or something. Anyway not my issue.

    We like to refrain from name calling so if you would be so kind as to follow this procedure we would all be greatful.

    Think you can handle that bro?

    -R-

  161. Pauly baby, unfortunately the only books you can read on these ancient civilizations are limited. Only 200 people or so can read the summerian cuniform language and the pre-semitic Akkadian.

    We do appreciate the fact that you confess ignorance on this subject. Please take your time reading these books and do choose the authors carefully as there some real conservatives out there like yourself.

    We would also bring to your attention the fact that we consider these gods that you were ranting about, not so much gods in a sense but ……Aliens……So you see, there is much information that you are missing.

    If you come back here and tell us that theres no such things as UFO’s, and that our governments haven’t been hiding all kinds of discoveries from the general public for decades then I’m sorry to say. We, no, I won’t speak for everyone, I will no longer consider you an intelligent human being.

    Simple as that,

    -Rico-

  162. I understand Pauls slamming the gods, In all the stories man is exploited.

    The Job story has me sick at times.

    But the one that really messes me up. The one where I really feel for man. Is the garden of eden story. You see, I don’t see it as original sin. I see it as a lost opportunity.

    In the story Gods evicts man from the garden not because he disobeyed. But because as he had knowledge now, he would eat from the tree of life and become immortal as one of the Gods.

    If only he had come to the garden a day later maybe adam would have thought to eat from the tree of life. Wouldn’t that have been something?

    In all the stories about mans quest for immortality, he fails or he loses it at the last moment. It is always said that man born of woman is fated to die as is a mortals fate.

    This makes me sad for mankind sometimes and I feel as if we were somehow cheated and were just used as entertainment.

    The first intelligence came from these guys, the first wars, the first everything all across the world has been credited to these guys.

    If we are killers or if we are compassionate we inherited these qualities from our creation by these guys as we were created in HIS image.

    The only difference is…..The tree of life and of course their highly evolved telepathic skills.

    I sound like some crazy ass comic book story teller but these are facts.

    All I know is that there is a change coming and i ain’t the Obama election campaign.

    We talk about 2012 saying it’s such a short time. Its only 4 more years. I can almost guarantee that not everyone in this blog will make it to 2012.

    So you see, you need to look at this time left to plan something, get a little ready, at least prepare your conscience and your mind and soul as much as you can before this 4 years period expires.

    It will in fact be, an end of time.

    Dramatic,

    -Rico-

  163. God evicts man from the garden because man broke a rule, the only rule, and, it was not even something man was required to actually DO. It was something man just had to NOT DO, required no effort on mans part.
    Sure F’d it up for the rest of us.
    Ricochet- I’m at a loss my friend.
    I know we all can think of our own behavior and cannot define our thought process leading to our actions(or lack thereof).

    The whole “god” issue I have weighed in on from my small perspective, if you beleive anything to be a sin-then to you-it is. Each of our Gods (or lack thereof) live in in each of our hearts, and, in spite of all our denial-
    we follow our heart.

  164. J.a. Thought
    I couldn’t agree with you more. God lives in our hearts.
    in Buddhist terminology this God is nothing else than avijja. Avijja commonly mistranslated as delusion. Correct interpretation would be “wanting to know, but not able to know correctly, wanting to understand but not being able to understand correctly” Correctly means in line with the truth

  165. Yesterday I followed the link to Baalbeck, from there followed some other links then came across Bermuda triangle, Atlantis, read Platos description of Atlantis. back to the secret underwater area shut off by US govrenment near Bimini, remembered Edgar Caseys statment, that near the cost of florida there will be found an ancient powerplant from the continent of atlantis that gave power to their ships and airplanes. This powerplant is made of a huge crystal ball, that catches the energy of the sun and redirects it to its ships and planes.
    If in 1945 several us navy airplanes disappeared near there, the us government certainly would seal of this area and keep what is found there as a secret.
    So many things have been sealed of public by various governments. It would be a feast for scientist all over the world to dive into these secret discoveries.
    … just some thoughts …

  166. Truth

    An interesting concept ;
    which way the water swirls when i flush the toilet-northen hemi.-clock=true
    southern-counterclock =true
    stupid example, (I am aware of that) however, Each to their own perspective.

  167. Just a thought. I didn’t mean to offend anyone these were just my thoughts. However you should read the biblical story again.This is formGenesis 3:22-24:

    22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

    23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

    24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life

    Notice in 22 hes speaking to someone he consides his equal when he refers to hem as one of us.

    I don’t want to get to heavy into it but in this part of Genesis I get the impression that God isn’t all knowing as he has to ask where adam is as opposed to just knowing and the fact that adam heard the voice of the Lord God walking in the garden before he addresses him.

    I mean, just read it all.

    Its like Pauly said, God first punishes the snake, then he punishes the woman, then he punishes adam. Then he decides he can’t trust adam now so he has got to go before he figures out that he won’t die eating from the tree of life also.

    Thats how I see it. I don’t like to cling to way I was taught to read these things. I read it and it says what it says.

    Of course its all parable. But you get the idea.

    You have to be carefull today with Christianity. The religion wa corrupted since the Catholic Church decided this would be their religion.

    Many early Christian writings were excluded and many of Christs’ teachings were corruped.

    Its sad but its a fact, probably the purest form of religion is what the shamans do with their drinks and trances.

    Somewhere along the line we lost the true substance of communion. The grail, the host, the true eucharist.

    It is now all symbolic, using a wafer and some grape juice.

    Tragically this what we have today.

    These are my opinions and are not meant to offend anyone.

    -Catastrophic Rico-

  168. Leah,
    if you master these four elements, then you are able to create anything you like.
    Ramana Maharshi was said to be able to create sweets out “nothing” for his mates.
    If you are familiar with the buddhist canon, above the human realm there are 30 realms of heavenly beings. To make it short, at the top there are gods who delight in creation and there are gods who delight in destruction. It is attributed that they create solar systems, planets and so on. But also they have only a limited time of existence, long about 200 to 300 thousand years. When they die and are for instance reborn as Ramana Maharshi, that would explain his ability.
    What happens if the mind enters a black hole, e.g. singularity? Everything created ceases to exist including consciousness. What then is left? The uncreated, unconditioned, non-duality. Emerging from this black hole, coming back to the senses you feel refreshed and recharged, just like putting your fingers in an AC outlet.
    You remember .. going into the world beyond thoughts.. now going into the world beyond phenomena.
    Have a nice day
    Martin

  169. Leah
    same over here, I do not believe, e.g. take them as correct or truth. But I find them extremely interesting points of views or explanations for things we cannot explain otherwise. If somebody explains something reasonably or logically I tend to submit and give it credit.

  170. Rico,
    20 years ago I read most of these apocryphic (or something like this) texts that were omitted from the bible. Very intereting but very difficult to understand. Then through the book Zen Buddhism and Psychoanalysis (Erich Fromm) I came to read the Buddhist texts. So logically and easy to understand.
    Have a nice day
    Martin

  171. Richard Dawkins…..now thats someone who has decided what is and what isn’t, according to his own preferences.
    He doesn’t know that its easier to disproove something by actually trying to make it work. A true expert at decrying anthing he personally can’t perceive, and sometimes quite rudely.

  172. Dear Paul Eaton-Jones,
    True enough…..being a race of beings from somewhere else in the universe, doesn’t earn them the title of gods. Those that wrote in ancients times, attached those labels, because of their religions and beliefs.
    As Ricochet had written on the other thread, Flies in some respect, perceive us as gods, being gigantic and seemingly living forever. It is however all relative. What seems a short time to us is a long time to a Fly.

    Nothing to forgive. Be well, Leah

  173. Dear Paul Eaton-Jones,
    In the first instance, may I address you as Paul ?
    Maybe you can shed some light. We’ve lived in our present location for 17 years, UK, but this Spring the sun was setting north north west instead of in the west. Then from one day to the next it was setting in the west again.

    Leah

  174. So we’ve gone from an article refuting the totally bogus claims by you end-timers for a cataclysm in 2012 as ‘predicted’ by the Mayan calendar to banging on about non-existant gods, non-existant alien spacecraft [yes I DO believe in intelligent life elsewhere in the galaxy but it hasn’t visited us. Show me the proof], ridiculous assertions that the Egyptians could only have built the pyramids with alien help, lunatics screeching passages form the bible in the belief that the old testament especially holds ‘The Truth’. I notice that very few of the quote come from the new testament where Christ, who I believe was a preacher in the near east 2000 years ago but NOT divine/son of god, spoke of love and forgiveness rather than the death destruction and panic preached by the likes of the old testament prophets. Those people were almost to a man bitter,twisted, mysogynistic, misanthropes.

  175. Rico. So I’m scared am I? Of what? Your truth? If the ancients were so mighty and privy to all this wonderful knowledge why aren’t we benefitting from it now? Why aren’t we living in a Babylonian culture that has lasted 4000+ years? Who has suppressed this knowledge and why?
    If you have access to it then it is your duty to share it with the rest of the world. Book a prime time spot on the BBC, ABC, CBS, NBC and tell us. Unless of course you’re an alien or one of those who want to keep it all secret.

  176. Who wrote Genesis….?

    The word, even just as spoken by humans is powerful indeed. The words of a politician resulted in being voted in as President of the USA.

    I would have prefered to hear in the acceptance speech, “To those who would tear the world down……Join us in building the world up.” But hey ho, thats just me…..always with the possitive and constructive.

    Thinking about the tree of life (a metaphorical tree)…..Science has prooved nothing can be destroyed or gotten rid of in the context of it dying, or not being at all. Everything is energy and it can only ever change. Not even words can be unsaid, or thoughts un-thought. So for me the tree of life is the knowlege / wisdom, that there is no death….only change.

  177. Rico/Amit etc.
    You people must have very small enclosed lives. You must hardly sleep as I imagine you spend you time scouring th enet for your info or are too frightened to sleep in case some monster arises from the deep to menace you. You must creep around in abject fear of the unknown, of governments planning your destruction or keeping secrets from you. Are your nightmares filled with grinning slavering creatures who want your souls? Do you jump at every creak of the floor boards expecting toothsome minor gods to leap from the shadows and bite you? If you find comfort and protection from these things in praying to Moloch and his Babylonian crew etc. well good for you but please don’t clog up a science discussion site. I will defend absolutely your right to hold these views and discuss them amongst yourselves but they have no place in an astronomy/cosmology group. At least we’ve had nothing from the believers in astrology. Startup your own blogs.
    BTW, I had a great upbringing filled with love and an abundance of books and was encouraged to explore stuff with an open, inquisitive mind. If only everyone had that opportunity.

  178. 1500+ underground bases, seed and gene vaults, stockpiling of food by certain agencies, GMO food, water monopolisation, plenty funds for bank bail outs (charitable contributions only for e.g. the starving), SPT, a sense of being kept in the dark, 1984 style surveillance of everyone, within 1 year a dire shortage of oil…then an about face turn, doppleganger capability (CGI on TV, plastic surgery or cloning in the flesh).

    To name but a few man made causes in recent times for people to wonder what is going on.

  179. With the equivalent of 2.2 kilo grammes per day, per human ( @ 6.7 billion people) of cereals, fruit, vegetables and sugar, have already been harvested in 2008.
    Some went to animal fodder, we then eat the animals. Some went to bio fuels.

    Even if three quarters + was used as animal fodder (remember we get to eat them) and bio fuel….it leaves enough for each to eat each day, being 550 grams, or roughly 1pound of food in weight. Where is all this produce. Then there’s seafood, which does not require feeding with grain etc (farmed fish etc being a small part and wild seafood being the bulk).
    Its like water water everywhere, but not a drop to drink.

  180. Paul
    please have a bit of mercy on us. Great scientific discoveries were not made by numbercrunching, but by observing phenomena that lacked explanation at that time. And finding the explanation, for instance the relativity theroy was born. So if we are not allowed to let our imagination run, talking or observing things that cannot yet be explained, then we are poor scientists. Brainstorming is not really scientific, but it led to great results.
    Even Einstein played with the idea of God, so be so kind and let us play as well.
    According to you we would have to stop the blog because no scientific input is coming. But I find it a beaty to talk about things we cannot explain, maybe this will lead to a great discovery one day?
    Coming back to the topic, maybe you can help us with setting up a model of earth that will tell us what exactly will happen to earth if the poles are flipped or the rotation of the earth stops for a while. How will it affect the plates, the continents the weather?
    Or maybe somthing simpler, the next tsunami, or volcanic eruption, where what strength and what is going to be affected?
    Even these small events we will have great difficulies in predicting them. Too many unknown factors.
    Have a nice day
    Martin

  181. Hi Martin. It’s not a question of having mecy or otherwise. It’s a question of, 1) asking for proof/evidence of these mysterious ancient powers devolved to Iron Age societies; 2) asking why this knowledge has only been given/passed down to or can be understood by the likes of Amit and Richochet and 3) why they need to use a site ostensibly about astronomy to spout rubbish.
    As yet science cannot predict when an earthquake.tsunami, volcanic eruption, geo-magnetic reversal will exactly occur. They can with almost 100% certainly say where some of the above will occur. The San Andreas Fault WILL slip; the Anatolian Fault/plate WILL slip; Tokyo Will experience another devastating ‘quake; the east coast of America WILL be inundated by a giant tsunami when the western part of the Canaries/Tenerife peels away and slumps into the Atlantic. Etna, Vesuvius, Pinatubo will erupt causing devastation. BTW, did you realise that Mt. Toba exploded around 78,0000 years ago reducing the human population to way below 10,000 people? Niw THAT is a global catastrophe I can understand and deal with. Make far more sense that Cthulu or Baal suddenly appearing and wiping us out.
    More later.

  182. Ricochet,
    Had not ment to imply offence, none existed.
    Cool.
    Fun stuff, Knowledge and Power
    Genises Chapter 11
    “And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.”
    Which ended poorly for those folks just
    as the account from Genesis 3.
    He seems to be talking to another here too.
    Info. and ability – fun stuff – but appearently need to be limited.
    Not my intent to imply that I claim to have a clue-just a thought.

    BTW PJ there is hope if you would have an open mind.

  183. The problem with having too open a mind is that it takes in everything without recourse to critical analysis or filtering. Without rational, critical thought we end up with religion and theories about aliens building the pyramids. Thinkers like that WANT there to be a fantastical answer when in reality the actual answer is just as fanastic. It is they who cannot accept reality because it’s too mundane for them. Without their conspiracies, visiting aliens, mysterious technology and ‘masters’ who live in secret caverns they have nothing. Listen to some good heavy rock guys and girls, clear the cobwebs from your minds and embrace the universe as it is not as you would like it to be.
    You’ve probably worked out that I’m an atheist and if I follow any ‘guru’ it’s Richard Dawkins.
    Much more later.

  184. But as a critical thinker he quite rightly doesn’t accept religion, for example, at face value. Show him, and me, demonsrable proof of mircales, prayers answered and the existance of god/gods and then perhaps we’ll believe. However, I refer you to one of my earlier posts where I said that should any gods exist they are not worthy of our devotions and tributes. They are spiteful, capricious, feeble-minded gibbering entities who long ago forgot about us. Their adherents cling to a primitive belief that they will return, at some unspecified point in the future but always soon, and whisk the true followers to heaven. The worst are the religious leaders who tell their flocks that the time of return is just around the corner and a few more pounds/dollars, a few more prayers and personal sacrifice will save their souls. This isn’t just a modern t.v. evangelical phenomenon is goes back to pre-biblical times so the Judaeo-Christian/Muslim religions can’t take all the blame. O.k., religion may bring comfort to many but it’s ultimately a way of avoiding taking personal responsibility for one’s actions and putting the blame/resonsibility onto a supernatural being. If you’re Christian/Buddhists/Muslim then your teachings tell you to forgive me.

  185. good morning all—
    paul–“thou doth protest too loudly”!!! nobody is disputing the “if’s and when’s” of these natural disasters–that is science of which we are all privy to every day…but it does not end with these catastrophic events or the los of human life…if human life stops, so does your science…for me, it is what happens BEYOND these events…and the souls that drive each human being…this is where faith, hope, and a fundamental belief in something much bigger that ourselves kick in…it simply cannot be all about science…if you are a scientist…how many times have you said, “gee, i HOPE this works.” ????? is hope not what drives you??? the hope of knowing, learning, understanding??? hope is not part of a scientific equation…it is spiritual…

    JAT—a rather stupid analogy,i admit…but it is simple—for me, it is one simple truth at a time…thanks for, at least, seeing the point…

    at this time,i am reading edgar cayce’s book on the life of Jesus…the Essenes are talked about in great detail throughout this book… i know you all have talked about the Essenes before, but for me, it is just starting to come “full circle”…

    the Bible, like so many other “history books”, are missing many key elements… it left up to interpretation–and it can be picked apart to suit almost any agenda…i am not being “blasphemous” here…but the “essence” of the Bible is held in it’s entirety…not in any one book, chapter or verse…remembering , of course, that as it was written–by many– with many parts being “fast-forwarded” over… were subject to the interpretation of the author…and now it’s readers…whether history or prophecy, that remains in the eyes of the beholder…

    well, guys–that my time–thank so much, as always, for your kind indulgence…

    my best wishes to you all…and always
    becky

  186. Of course you can call me Paul.
    Off the top of my head the reason why the sun set slightly north of west and then west is due to a number of things, all well known and established. No matter where you are on earth the sun will always set, and of course rise, due west and due east. The phenomenon you observed is in part due to one’s latitude and the time of the year. Between 21st June and 21st December the sun will set north of due west and then south of due west from 21st Dec and 21st June. A quick look at one of my astronomy texts says that on the equator on 21st Dec. the sun sets 23.5* south of west. Six months later it sets 23.5* north of west. However if you travel north you have to use the formula 1/cos( lat) to work out where it sets. Celestial mechanics which involves trigonometry and geometry is difficult and I don’t use it in my hobby. If you like maths then it is I believe easy once you’ve become used to it. Any decent astronomy book, even a beginners book, will sort you out.
    Paul.

  187. espumpin–this is just an afterthought..in your nov 6 post, you asked “how Gods of love can let suffering take place”…

    when things go bad, why are we so quick to blame God??? when things are going good, do we thank him or blame him???

    when things are going well, i have never heard one person complain that., “no God of mine would let this happen. this has got to stop…God, please help me get through this.” that bad has got to come with the good…otherwise we would have no guage…when things are bad–they can always be worse…and when things are good–they could always be better…and don’t forget to filter in free will, there…though sometimes we are “victims”, and we suffer through no fault of our own–bad things have to happen–even to good people…God’s tolerance for this does not necesarily make him happy, but it is a necessary evil…and he will always have a hand in guiding us through even the toughest of times…

  188. Becky. There is, I hope, nothing beyond life. There is no afterlife, no Nirvana, Elysian fields, no heaven no soul in the religious sense. What makes us human is in our brains – the ability to reason. Beyond that we’re just a collection of chemicals, electrical impulses etc. How we think, perceive and reason and what they all ACTUALLY are is of course the subject of ongoing research and debate. But once you bring the supernatural, divine or mystical into the equation you have moved out of the realm of science and into religious belief and some would say irrationality.

  189. Anyway I’m about to finish work and head off home for the weekend where I will imerse myself in the erudite writings of Dawkins, Henry Hodges, Graham Clark, Aubey Burl and Carl Sagan. If the names are unfamiliar to Amit and Richochet – look ’em up. Some are archaologist and experts on ancient building technology. And not a mention of aliens or ‘mysterious old ones’ who came along to lend a hand raising the stones. Have a good weekend all. See you on Monday.
    Paul.

  190. We’ve had the dark ages, a 1000 years full of war and disease. Stormy times. We have since had a 1000 years, in comparison much more peaceful and healthier times.

    What a waste, of a million good ideas, if the human race allows itself to dive into the depths of darkness once again.

    On the subject of a pole shift of some sort. Science is the form that inspects and studies that which has happened, or has already begun to happen, with a view to being able to predict the same happening NEXT time. E.g. Earthquakes will be very accurately predicted once enough have been observed. That though is no consolation to those that are already dead due to earthquakes.
    Likewise with pole shifts, science will only understand after it has experienced one. Until then, science has only a stack of hypotheses to offer, theories, ideas, supositions, postulations etc etc etc.
    I remember a time when science categorically stated “All matter in the universe was created at the moment of the Big Bang” therefore all matter was the same number of years old. Then some years later they scratched their heads, the dandruff flew, and they wondered how it was that, this was not the case. If all things on Earth are not the same age, how could everything in the universe ever be the same age.
    Now astronomers are scratching their heads over what they’ve called, The Dark Flow, The Great Attractor , Dark Matter /Energy……..no need to list more.
    I love the sciences…..not the sometimes barbaric methods they employ……but it was observation, writings of old and philosophy that gifted me understanding.

  191. Everyday, have eyes, (and every sense that can be mustered) wide open to spot Sinronicity and Convergance.

    Or for the pure science brigade, Critical Mass. Shame few spotted critical mass re recent economics, and financial meltdown, due to their preference that it not happen. It happened in spite of all the preferences, hopes and wishes against it.

  192. Like Just a Thought said, some things need to be believed to be seen.

    Those that didn’t believe, didn’t see the financial crash……therefore did nothing to protect themselves…..why ? because they didn’t believe it could happen. QED.

  193. Hi Just a Thought,
    Yup read it, hence my previous post.
    One mans meat is still another mans poison. Truth to one is a lie to another.
    Leah

  194. Its a waste of time talking to Paul about this because he obviously believes in no God or gods or visting aliens.

    Paul you actually avoid reading any book that contains the subjects we’re bringing up here. You go out of your way to keep things neat and oderly, no chance for any ghost in your life. No UFO’s, No aliens, no gods, no nothing thats not concrete in your little mind.

    Thats what I meant when I said that you were scared.

    I mean, I read all kinds of books. The books I favor on this subject come from what the book stores label the “speculation” dept.

    You however, don’t speculate.

    Its ok, I understand, but you must also understand that you are limited in your lack of faith because thats all speculation is really.

    So all I can say at this time is that we can agree to disagree.

    Pauly, May the gods bless you bro!

    -R-

  195. Hey Becky, I borrowed your analogy because it was a tool to say what one person knows to be true may not hold true to another. Grand example I thought! What I meant was I felt silly not being able think of my own.

  196. Ann said this:
    “I guess some people just choose to be oblivious to what is coming and that is OK. When it happened to Atlantis, most people didn’t believe it either and most of them were gone!”
    Ann said this and I wanted to share this with those around the campfire.

  197. good morning, everyone!!! thank you, ann!!!

    leah–loved your “scratching of the head, and dandruff flying” thoughts…in my book, you are always so “spot on”…it has been my thought for a long time that conventional science just does not apply any more…what i wonder is why no one is willing to look “outside the box”…is is because they are apprehensive, or because they don’t know how??? the old ways may not necessarily be the the “best” way, but it is the SAFEST, because they are the most famiiar… i imagine “new” or “different” is pretty scary in the scientific world…

    LEAH, i also found myself in serious consideration of your nov 7 posts, and the undisclosed things that are happening around us, but that are so obvious to so many…”water, water everywhere…but not a drop to drink”…please don’t dispair just yet—the “depths of darkness” may be for those who built those underground “tombs”
    …the rest will be “heading toward the light”…

    paul–my man–nov 7–did i read you right???? did you actually say “I HOPE ???
    …there is no life after death????” WOO HOO !! —hope does spring eternal!!!!!!
    no “slam”, here, paul—i really AM interested in (and need) your understanding of things…AND, thanks for putting up with me…
    ( but i still maintain that we will meet you on the other side)

    …and.. that’s enough from me!!!!

    my best to you all,
    becky

  198. An Einstein quote…”Better I’d been a Locksmith”.

    As it was in the metaphorical garden of Eden, so it is now….that man must learn to resist the temptation to use knowlege gained, for ill use, such as war. The one thing man should NOT do, is destroy ourselves. If this kind of temptation is not conquered this time, the human race may end up rebooting again…….that is if it does’t succeed 100% in its destructive endeavours.

    Imagine if enough atomic explosions occured in one location, it would be like a large asteroid hitting earth. Possibly resulting in knocking Earth off its present axis.

    With a net gain in population of 65,000,000 this year, the VOLUNTARY reduction of population is the solution to most immediate and long term human created problems. Greed for power over another and wealth, is something that only each individual can battle with, within themselves.

    As for those things beyond Earth that could harm us…….time spent fighting, could have been time spent learning and preparing if needs be.

  199. “what if your wrong?” about everything you think is right in your life. “what if your wrong?” & every desioin you have made has led you down the path your not suppose to be on, in stead of seeing things more clearly more in foucused your nrear-sighted or far-sighted. you need glasses we need glasses. DR.R.Dawkins, says in “The God Delusion”, Dawkins contends that there is no God. He’s right & Im wrong? Why? Because he has a P.H.D.? They gave him glasses to see things given the same proof and clues the rest of us got? He is privy to higher knowledge than the rest of us? Graham clark- discovered Sirus B, That means he was a Star Gazer, right? in layman terms. no? Aubrey burl most well known for his studies into Megalithic momunments. Carl Sagan Promoted S.E.T.I, He wrote the novel that was turned into the film Contact. And was the person responsible for insuring the first spacecraft apllo 7 or something had on board an unalterable and universal message on the spacecraft that was sent to leave our solar system. I dont want to go back and foth trying to dicredit each other lets learn to disagree and try to find a pair of glasses we can share and learn from together.That we we wont get blind sided, nobodys gonna trust us but what if all it does take is opening up and trusting,caring & then loving one another for no other reason than..no other reason. In a world where we worship $ more than family members, when one way or another we are all on this planet together where or how we originated is as less important as why we all s**t from our a**. There has to be more than eveolution Cone Snails there are about 500 different species of cone snails look it up. Cone snail use a harpoon-like structure to kill their prey anyway they use a poision only thing is each species and i’m not making this up has a different type of venom & each one is unique to eachs own class they do not overlap and esach poision give a different affect on humans they cure different dieseases, rthis is new stuff look it up, now thats not by eveolution thats amazing Do I think there is one single being sitting on a throne looking down at this planet in particular? No. What is out there is the stuff of legends and our minds energy taht some call a soul energy cannot be destroyed or created it is simply there first law in thermo dynmiacs or something like that bbut again a fact. anyway this is my ranting a** saying I wanna hear what you have to say but I dont wanna keep name calling. Thers no need we can be friends If you think something Geometric is gonna happen lay it on me I think dsomethimes I should get a boat and 2 of those big dumpsterd you see in the back of a restaruant im saying if the world stopped spinnning and it was gonna start again anyway I would put the dumpsters on the boat ride out to thwe middle of the ocean get westsuits tanks oh and mattresses in the dumpsters 2 of them to spilt my family and when the world starts they would fli to the bottom of the ocean put the spinning would make water fly up to the top so i would land on soft bottom of ocean stuff that would now be the top & hopefully we would live, well I had more time on my hands than I thought and I know this is “just talking” but we should all do as much to each other at least just endulge ok i hate when I lose my thought.
    Till Obama admits the jobs not that fun Make Mine Mavel.

    Espumpin

  200. good morning–all!!!

    leah, the things that will harm us most are already here–they did not come from beyond…to win the battle, we must fight our own demons first…

    has anyone noticed the frequency and ease with which the word “transition” is being used in the media as obama prepares to take office??? putting all political inuendos aside,it will suffice to say that obama was not my personal choice, but these will be VERY interesting times, indeed…i wish him well, and i hope he does good, but i don’t think he understood the full magnitude of that which he sought…russia is already getting “testy”…iran’s president has already contacted obama…north korea’s president hospitilized due to complicatons from a stroke…peacetalks in the middle east at a stalemate once again…afghanistan is rapidly becoming our “new biggest threat”…worldwide, people and governments are watching and waiting…

    …savior or antichrist??? (he rose to the ultimate power in just 4 years)…PLEASE–no offense intended-just thinking out loud!!!!!

    i realize this has nothing to do with the overall context of this thread…(magnetic reversal) scientifically, it’s not equatable, or even worth a second thought for some…but i can’t help but think that somehow it’s all related…especially considering leah’s thought that big bombs going off on one side of the world will most certainly affect us all…

    for me…these are unknown variables in the overall equation (a+b+c+d+=signs of the times)

    espumpin–interesting rant–just not sure i understood the question???? tempers will flare , at times, when we become passionate about something…there is no harm in that–the harm comes with disrespect…so rant and rave to your heat’s content….

    amit, hope you are well—the same to each and all…no one in excluded there…

    best wishes and enjoy your day..
    becky

  201. Dear Ricochet,

    I can assure you that I’m well aware of the effects of conflicting religion and belief systems throughout recorded history.
    Also of greed for wealth and power.

    Whats is not logical, is for a hi tech race from somewhere else in space, to be able to travel all the way here, but need primitive slaves for anything at all. With all the tech, if their interest was only what they could take from Earth i.e. Gold, they could have taken it and left.
    The only motive to genetically alter humans, teach them to mine gold, amongst other things, could be to make a supply ready for them when they next passed by. Our DNA may also be of interest, and needed time to mature and evolve, in readiness for their next visit. In which case they would probably view humans as chatels.

  202. Leah do you realize that the worlds instability in terms of war is religious difference?

    The most unstable region in the world is the middle east. This is a religious war.

    Paul the reason i concentrate on the Old Testament as opposed to the New Testament is because the OT validates the NT. In other words, Yeshua is the son of Yahweh and Yahweh first appears in the OT. So what I do is go back to where its starts.

    This is also why most of my interest is the the Sumerian pantheon of gods. Because they preceed all others ie; Greek, Roman, Christianity. The first pantheon came from that area. In almost all other pantheons you can equate the god stories to some god of the sumerian pantheon.

    Example: RA = Marduk.

    Whats really amusing to me is that I have not offered any metaphysical explanations here regarding God or gods. I’ve simply pointed out a scientific speculation that has been made regarding these gods, it has been speculated that they may have been ancient astronauts. Nothing metaphysical about that.
    Nothing supernatural. These astronauts may have been telepathically gifted with an extraordinary life span. Still nothing supernatural or metaphysical.

    All of these things have been speculated. Just as it has been speculated that the pyramids were built using pulleys and levers by ancient egyptians.

    Its all speculation. We have to be adults about this and consider the evidence available and use judgement to discern what is feasable when we indulge ourselves in reading these theories.

    I, like most people here was raised with religion in my family. Somehow, again like most people while growing up you lose the way so to speak. But being as how you were raised with religion you always have questions and doubts and some of us look for meaning and some don’t.

    In my search I beacme fascinated with Genesis 6 of the OT. This lead me to Zecharia Sitchins books and other material such as apocrypha and anything pertaining to what I was interested in.

    I assure you Paul that no matter how much a scientific approach you want use on this subject it cannot be done. There is too much speculation and of course there is so much information that is withheld.

    Anyway, the countdown has begun.

    Tick tock baby tick tock,

    -Ricochet-

  203. Hi Becky, you hit the nail on the head. Obama is a very important part of the times. All the problems that you mentioned would have had to been dealt with by any candidate that won.

    The transition is important because until he swears in he won’t be president and anything can happen between now and then. So beware the transition.

    All of those world issues that you mention will not be getting any better but will assuredly escalate as the next few years go by.

    These things have been getting worse for years. Its not just starting.

    Its been very quiet on the Israeli front also which worries even more than all the rest.

    I just hope they let the new president in. If some new catastrophe should occur anywhere in the world they may decide to postpone “the transition” until its appropiate time.

    An exciting time to be alive!!!

    Optimistic,

    -R-

  204. My point being that you don’t know what these people have gotten into. They’ve discovered many things that are not made public and they’re into many esoteric ventures.

    I’d also like to know how many times in the past the military has responded in numbers and equipment to remove a fallen weather balloon.

    Wow. It looks like all of you have a life!! No one post on sundays!!

    I hope you all had a great weekend.

    -Rico-

  205. Hey Leah!!

    Nice to see I’m not alone 😉

    I think we’re inconsequential to them. They’ll probably be surprised we’re still around and in such numbers.

    Depending on wether the sentiment be Enki like or Enlil like we’ll de in deep crap.

  206. Hey Folks!!

    Rico, Yep, you are right , we all have a life..

    PAUL – Read it again, Yes, we have a life and quite contrary to what you described in one of your posts…

    So, you like to lick Dzawkins huh??
    Dawkins writes logically, but he writes only to support his own personal beliefs and never really engages the alternate hypothesis, as any good scientist should. If you don’t share his ideologies, the weaknesses and shortcomings in his logic become very apparent. He uses his position as a scientist, however, to add credibility to an overriding, and highly charged, personal agenda of atheism and secular humanism.

    By contrast, greater scientists such as Einstein and Hawking, even though they may not speak of faith in a personal God, still express a deep sense of wonder and awe for our existence. For others yet, such Von Braun, the universe itself is undeniable evidence of their God and Savior. Dawkins writings though reveal someone who thinks he has it all figured out and that anyone who doesn’t see it his way is ignorant, using terms like “cowardly flabbiness of the intellect” to describe those with other views. As noted by Richter, a man never discloses his own character so clearly as when he describes another’s. If you read Dawkins, look beyond the clever logic to the heart, character and motives of the man and there you will gain understandings into life that go far beyond the mere text of his writings
    Dawkins strikes out against religion, but note his target. Religion is not God, and experiencing religion is not the same as experiencing God. Religion is a human social institution and its failings do not prove or disprove the existence of God. They just demonstrate shortcomings in mankind that pervade all human institutions, from government to sports to marriage.

    Does Dawkins show any recognition or understanding of the spiritual experiences of knowing God that change a life to one of love and service or does he just strike out against the worst parts of religion: the ritual, hypocrisy, anger and self-righteousness? Read any one of the gospels and you’ll find that Jesus Christ strikes out against the very same things! (Matthew 23, for example) Christ, however, completes the picture with the insight that true worship of God is none of these, but instead is a relationship of love with God as a person.

    Use Dawkins’ logic on religion and you might as well also throw out science just because there are some scientists who fall short of the disciplines of science, abuse science to justify their own selfish agendas and similarly damage and mislead others in the process.

  207. Paul, I’m sure you will get back with lots of “Erudite” shit from Dawkins and Co. and try to drown us all!
    Sorry, if i offended your sentiments about your “Guru” …. But i felt inclined to say what i think of his work, in exact terms!

  208. Friends,

    The secrets are not hidden anymore. Credit to internet for spreading awareness…
    More and more people know about UFOs, Secret Bases, Covert Experiments etc.
    Earlier, some scientists had to remain in oblivion due to the “unacceptance” of their research by “Peer Reviews” and the subsequent refusal to publish their work. But now they dont need to rely on them to get their work noticed. They can dare to think “differently” and propose alternate theories.. They can defy the rotten logic and outdated theories that have been blinding people since ages…
    But we still have people lilke Paul, who are apparently clutching their copies of “The Selfish Gene”, “Blind Watchmaker Etc” !! And no matter how many proofs we dangle in front of their eyes, they will remain oblivious to the truth…

  209. Just a quick overall response for the moment. Aubey Burl was my lecturerer at college and he marvelled at the standing stones not because they were raised with the aid of alien technology but that the people who raised them took the time and energy to do so. Any mention of visiting aliens, at any time, was enough to raise his ire. He spent a lifetime researching how and why and his work has pretty much become the standard at least for European stone circles.
    Re: Dawkins. People don’t listen to him merely because he has a PhD. Yes he rejects religion and also god/s becasue there is no need to invoke them for the existance of the universe. He more or less says that we ought to take responsibility for ourselves and our actions good and bad.
    Why on a thread about geophysics are we discussing Obama? Great news certainly but not the place.
    Amit: no I’m not at all offended by your comments about me or Dawkins. But I would be very interested in your proofs of whatever it is you’re banging on about. Just because von Daniken, Velikovosky et al have published many, many,many books on alien visitations amongst other things they haven’t provided proof. Speculation yes; misinterpretations yes. Definitive proof – no.
    As for aliens. Yes of course they exist. The galaxy is teeming with life both simple and complex. Can I prove itr? No but on the basis of possibility/probability then yes. Has it visited here? No. Why? Because we’re in a galactic back-water surrounded by stars that on the basis of probability don’t harbour life as they appear to be too young/hot/cold etc for intelligent life AS WE KNOW IT to have evolved. The distances are too big. It’s not a question of just popping down to the local shops it bloody huge out there. [as I’m sure your alien friends have told you.] Come on, show me the proof. Credit the internet for spreading rubbish, rumour and false hope.

  210. Paul, i have already submitted my “proofs” in one of the earlier posts. You said that you will go through that stuff later.. Obviously, you had to say something like that, didn’t you? Because you did not have any answers to the questions i posed!
    If you have so much confidence in yourself and your crude bunch of jokes who call themselves “Scientists”, then go on and answer my questions!

  211. And as for distances… Even the distance betwee the 2 corners of Earth was considered “Huge” !
    But what about now, it is indeed a question of just popping down to the local shops!
    So, Inter-Galacic distances may be much for us, but there are civilisations out there which are far more advanced and thy possess technologies which are beyond our wildest dreams…
    There was a “scientist” in the begining of the 20th Century, probably one of your kind.. When Telephone was invented, he said – “All that can be invented has been invented and there can be no further inventions now” …. Would have made a wonderful exhibition of the “Foot “IN” Mouth Disease” if alive today… Just like your kind will do shortly!

  212. Dear All,
    Hope you all had a good weekend, according to each your own perceptions of, good.

    Perspective designs the question. Dawkins questions and researches according to his perception, as do scientists in e.g. Genetics.

    CNV…..Redundantly copied. What nature deems redundant, it no longer makes, so these genes must have a purpose. Scientists need only change their perception very slightly, in order to ask e.g Could these genes be a record of all that has gone before, relative to that species ? An historical account of the all past generation’s experiences. For me the next question is…Is the length of a DNA sequence relative to the length of time, that a given species has been around ?
    If we eveolved from Apes, it means they were around before homo sapiens, therefore I would expect for an Apes DNA strand to be longer, having as a species, accumulated more experiences to record.

    I’m back to Just a Thoughts, thought, that some things need to be believed, to be seen.
    In this case, it need not be belief, per se, just a temporary shift in perception, just long enough to ask the question “What if those genes are not redundantly repeated, what if its not junk, therefore what is its function ?

  213. Further, if there is any substance to the questions I posted, the human experiences of the past 1000 years alone, are so many and varied, (especially in the last 150 years), I wonder what the difference is between the DNA sequence of someone alive today, compared to someone who lived prior to the industrial revolution.

  214. I said I’ll go through the posts later because I’ve just arrived at work and have things to do.

  215. I have no problem with alien civilasations having the technologies way beyond our comprehension and being able to travel stellar distances probably faster than light too. But where is the evidence they’ve been here? Where are the artifacts? Big lumbering stones don’t point to star travellers. Where is the science of these beings? Cog-toothed, golden discs found by von Daniken in the south American jugle doesn’t count old boy. Perhaps you’d be good enough to give me two titles of books that show evidence that back up your frankly wild and largely discredited claims.

  216. Indeed there was a physicist in th elate 19th century who claimed that all that could be discovered in the subject had been discovered. Within 10 years Einstein wrote the Theory of Special Relativity, 20 years General Relativity and 25 years Quantum Theory had blasted everything apart and a new path was found. This is science NOT speculation. I have no doubt that humanity will find a way to travel to the stars using as yet undiscovrered tecnology. But it will be OURS not “rediscovered” mysterious stuff left by the ancients and we will be the visitors from the stars. Perhaps, maybe…..

  217. Amit. If you want me to answer your questions give me one or two at a time please. I can’t afford the time to sift what may be pertinent, valid questions from all the filler stuff you insist on adding in like quotations form the bilbe and other ancient texts. By all means have your religious belifs but keep your questions and points to me in the realm of science. I’m not qualified in, or indeed interested in religion. I see it as a distraction both to me ands to the population. Try to tease out the science from the writings of the Sumerians/Babylonians/Hebrews/Maya etc that way any scientists or those interested in science that have remained here can comment.

  218. Paul,

    Check out my post put on November 5th, 2008 at 8:20 pm…
    There are no bible verses there.. Those are all scientific facts described in a language that you understand well….. DOnt ty to hide behind lame excuses..
    And one more thing.. If you desist from the name calling that you have been doing, then i’ll be happy to do likewise.. You started to make personal affronts in your posts.. That surely doesn’t go down well with anyone, so i was bound to respond in kind.. True that our opinions differ by a long way, but that surely cannot prevent us from having a discussion in a civil manner… And if you know us better (Speaking for all my friend here), you would find out that we are not all that bad either.. We are all leading our lives happily with our wonderful families, and most of our time is consumed by our respective occupations.. The little that remains is taken up with this “research” that holds our fascination and binds us together..

  219. Your comment about religion also portrays that you have not been reading my posts, just skimming through them. And that in itself shows a closed mindset..
    Because, if you read carefully, you will find out that i am not “religious” in the sense of the word thats generally implies. Religion was just a method used by the Learned People in early ages, to convey “Science” to laymen. Because it was beyond their understanding to grasp those advanced scientific concepts, and God was also just a term used to denote entitites who were more advanced than humans.
    Enuma Elish clearly describes a lot of that Science, whereas The Bible will tell you how all that got convrted to religion.

  220. As I’ve said before I have no problem with people having religious beliefs and praying to whichever gods they want – just keep them away from science-based sites. What annoys me is that people cling like children to these beliefs. That i sbeside the main point I made many posts ago – aliens technology doesn’t exist here. The ancients were quite capable of building temples, ziggurts, pyramids using their science and technology without recourse to mysterious science.
    Before I go any further I should say, for what it’s worth that I think some of the Babylonian and Sumerian art/carvings/building are simply awe-inspiring. Whenever I go up to London I spend a day in the British Museum and most of that in the Babylonain/Assyrian section. The winged bulls from the gateway at Khorssabad are among the most amazing things I’ve seen. The carved hunting scenes invoke a feeling of the actual hunt. And you can actually touch them. THAT is amazing actually touching these ancient monuments. Nothing mysterious. The only alien thing is the distance in time. I’ll pay my respects to them again this December.

  221. While it is undoubtedly true that the combinations of of DNA pairs runs into billions from the formula you wrote it is agreed by most/some scientists that once nature had hit on the ‘correct’ sequence it stpped and ran with what it had. The numbers you come out with are probabilities same as with the cards in a deck. Nature wouldn’t go on in a similar fashion.
    Why shouldn’t The Fibonaci Series be entirely natural? Why does there have to be a ‘higher’ guiding authority writing hidden messages in the spiral of a shell/leaf?
    And as I said previously – the Egyptian pyramids were not built 11,000 BCE. There is NO firm evidence whatsoever. There is firm evidence however for the earth coming out of the Ice Age and humanity still being hunter gatherers not monumental builders.

  222. Dear Espumpin,
    Re DNA, before I forget. The 2 genes in Apes, coulde be due to their immune systems still having a use for them, but we do not. A pathogen which they still have contact with from time to time. I wonder if those genes are present in humans who live in the vacinity of wild apes, or if the comparison study was conducted using human DNA from locations where apes have not, or no longer live naturally.

    RE your last post. If humans constructed the ancient monuments, without any outside help or use of energy the way we use it…….what did they know that we don’t……or I respectfully suggest asking this from a slightly different perspective. “From what perspective did the ancients understand and use knowlege ?”

    There is however nothing to say they did not have some, all or more mechanical techno capability than us…..as over time, items made of what we call modern materials, would have long rotted away…….stone being the most durable over truly long periods of time, but not to forget that this also applies to Gold that doesn’t get exposed to certain levels of heat.

    What is thought to be an Atlantis Grid which includes all the great monuments, may turn out to be to do with energy production, and also provide communication (like internet) and be able to act as a shield, even possibly having to do with weather control to some degree.
    History repeats itself, as a variation of a theme. So what we do now, is a variation of what they did then……our monuments if you like just look different, but are no less spectacular. However they are less enduring in their construct, few of which if any would survive the elements for very long, as they are not built to last. Instant coffee construction.

    If they did use fossil fuel energy, or clean electricity, what evidence do we have to suppot this……by the same token, if humans became extinct now, what evedence would remain in a 1000 years’s time of our present day methods of energy production? None, other than evidence of mining….and only few examples of construction in stone. Yet, we did exist, and we produced energy, and we built…….just wouldn’t be evident.
    Leah

  223. good morning , dear friends…

    just one thought this morning…paul, i still maintain that EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE…and wonder why it is so dificult to “look outside the box”…

    please enjoy your next trip to the British Museam…as you stand in awe and marvel at all these wonderful relicks and artifacts, how can you not wonder if perhaps there isn’t “something more” than just what you can see or touch??? how does one just “feel the hunt” then move onto the next exhibit??? how does that work??? for me, when i am in museums of this magnitude, my mind just RUNS AMOK…there is no end the the places my mind or imagination will take me…

    …just thinking out loud–there really is no relevance to this–just wondering how the scientific mind works…

    and thank you for your kind indulgence…

    becky

  224. The something more shouldn’t include giving the supernatural/aliens building the pyramids etc any credence. Why look for those types of explanation when the real one is just as fascinating?

  225. Anyway, there will be no geo-magnetic reversal in December 2012. Neither will there be an unknown/unknowable/inexplicable event on the same day which defies understanding. Neither will the mysteries of the ancients, those hunter-gatherers remember still struggling to live in the post-glacial world, be revealed to the true believers.

  226. The post you speak of from GJ, Espumpin is gone from my view too, along with the post from Debauch also recomending, Sheldrake as reading.

    GJ’s post was re that we have gold in us too, and that the Annunaki want that gold too. Also included were some Genetic research findings. Its the post where I was asked if I had ever heard of the Annunaki.

    We are being manipulated. E if you write to Fraser Cain, the one responsible for this site, he will have a copy of the post, and all others.

  227. This is an example of why science has not given me the answers once you probe deep enough. I will copy [paste you come up with your own conclusions.

    Stefan Lovgren
    for National Geographic News

    August 31, 2005
    Scientists have sequenced the genome of the chimpanzee and found that humans are 96 percent similar to the great ape species.

    “Darwin wasn’t just provocative in saying that we descend from the apes—he didn’t go far enough,” said Frans de Waal, a primate scientist at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. “We are apes in every way, from our long arms and tailless bodies to our habits and temperament.”
    Because chimpanzees are our closest living relatives, the chimp genome is the most useful key to understanding human biology and evolution, next to the human genome itself. The breakthrough will aid scientists in their mission to learn what sets us apart from other animals.

    By comparing human and chimpanzee genomes, the researchers have identified several sequences of genetic code that differ between human and chimp. These sequences may hold the most promise for determining what creates human-specific traits such as speech.

    “If people are asking what makes us human, they’re not going to find a smoking gun [in this study],” said Evan Eichler, a genome scientist at the University of Washington in Seattle who was part of the research team. “But they’re going to find suggestions for where to look.”

    OK NOW READ THIS

    By Brandon Keim November 05, 2008 | 7:05:18 PMCategories: Genetics
    new comparison of chimpanzee and human genomes has offered an early but tantalizing look into what makes the two species, nearly identical at the DNA level, so different.

    Scientists found key differences in areas linked to cell differentiation, immune response and the synchronization of certain minerals in our Metabolism, the sum of all biochemical processes involved in life— and that could be just the beginning.

    “By looking at all the variations, we will get a catalog, and when we find a variation in a person with a disease, it will help us understand the function of that variation,” said study co-author Richard Redon, a geneticist at the Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute. “It will help us understand better how our species emerged.”

    Researchers already know that humans and chimpanzees share about 98 percent of the same genes. But rather than searching for mutations, Redon’s team looked at a relatively unstudied phenomenon known as copy number variation, or CNV, in which genes are redundantly duplicated.

    These variations were ignored in the early days of genetics, but have recently been recognized as important: Mutations are more likely to accumulate in a given type of gene when multiple copies exist, and the simultaneous application of multiple genes can provide a functional boost.

    Redon’s team is the first to assemble maps of CNV similarities across both chimpanzees and humans, and then compare the maps to each other. What roles those cell differentiation and immune response variants might play isn’t yet known — but the details of the findings, said Redon, are less important than the example set by the study, published today in Genome Research.

    How do the apes have 2 more extra genes than us and we evoled from them, shouldn’t we by default have a greater # than those we have evoled from?
    Now what do I know I am ignorant here but if someone can answer me help make it clearer. Sorry for the rush or if I didn’t spell anything right or lft out some of the article but i left the links so look it up yourself.

    Espumpin

  228. I’ll read it fully tomorrow as here in the UK it’s late afternoon and I’m about to leave work. It looks interesting. I’m NOT in any way against new ideas challenging scientific verities – it’s how science works. Old ideas are torn down often after fierce resistance but only after rigorous debate and many, many repeatable experiments. I’ve said elesewhere that Einstein let himself down by not embracing quantum theory so science and those who work in science are equally capable of being block-headed – it’s not just religious believers who are guilty. AND I have never claimed otherwise.

  229. Found Debauch’s….so not gone. GJ’s I can confirm had to be after 7.50am 13th Oct, as per time and dates quoted on the thread….and 4.19pm 14th Oct, which was my reply to GJ’s post. Sorry E, I don’t have it.

  230. I have another thought if I may impose, Still I am looking for some sorta brigide to these gaps.Like if we have evoled and the egyptains,mayams and countless others built the ancient wonders why are we not replicating the same. If they built such structures without the use of fossil fuel why do we only need it and would have to use fossil fuel to replicate what they had done. Why are we not all great mathmations and scientist if ppl of olde were wise without the advantages we have like internet and schools universities access to knowledge that our ancenster couldn’t shouldn’ve had but did. Have we de-evoled? am I ranting on no baseses to be ranting? Ok let me shut-pu im at work and just had to get this down cuz I hate when you have a thought and then later can’t remember where you were headed and I lose my point so much I carry a pencil sharpner for G.P. TLK 2 U later

    E

  231. Thank you, I wish my words can come out as smoothly. But, Yes i agree. Just math and science should’ve been passed down by word of mouth or written like the Mayans the improvments in education should;ve had our kids learning Tirg. in kidergarden. Does anyone remember the post by Gj on gold in our D.N.A. all I have is a reply and the date the post is not on my thread. Can anyone repost or is it gone from all our sites which just be freaky its from
    “Amit Says:
    October 14th, 2008 at 8:43 pm
    Greetings to All!!!

    Dear G Joe, the way you connected Gold in Human DNA and Anunnaki got my head spinning… I am curious about this, can you please throw some more light upon this?? As Leah said, we have been associating Mono Atomic Gold with the Anunnaki atmosphere so far, but what you have come up with is a bit different.”

    Now I wish I had read this more carefully, I must admit I didn’t believe him at the time. And he never answered our questions on how he knew. But, there was a newspaper AP-heading attached to the article I would like to follow the link on now. G’night everyone.

    Espumpin.

  232. Dear Amit,
    Add Orme/matabolic gold, to kundalini, and to silicon in bones etc, to yoga to spine.
    Leah

  233. What insults sensibilities, is e.g. on the comments page a page printed as number 688 and post number 469, this was 7 hours ago. Now the same post printed on page 84. The threads re format and are edited on a regular basis. Why would GJ’s post be edited out in preference to one containing expletives, and / or abuse, when it contained no defamatory comments, or any that could be called liablous.

  234. GJ, 144,000 13th Oct 9.39am. Adam Kadmon….frequencies….harmonics…..

    Incidently, interesting post Nov 10th 7.31 pm on the comments page.

  235. Dear Martin,

    Some things require deduction, because the cause is not inspectable, but the effects are.

    E.g. A car crash on a road with no cameras, vehicles which have no tachometres, and no survivors. The approx speed, direction of travel, can still be deduced.
    Give it some time. All I can say is that each is more /different than they think they are.
    Leah

  236. A genuine astronomical question.
    How often does our Solar system cross the Galactic plane. Or given our Solar Systems trajectory and speed of orbit of the galaxy, how many Earth years between Galactic Plane crossings…..or how many times do we traverse the Galactic Plane during one orbit of our Solar system around the Milky Way ?

  237. Dear Martins,
    Thats like Thoth and the Atlantians if they really existed, when they went to Khem / Egypt.
    Leah

  238. Paul, Let me ask you just one question to see if can offer a scientific explanation.

    How was it possible for civilization, meaning, going from hunter/gatherer to farming and animal domestication blossom overnight (scientifically speaking) in one location on earth and not in several places simultaneously?

    Why are there still to this day bushmen? Didn’t they evolve too?

    Paul, there is more than one source that tells about DNA tampering by superior beings.

    How does science explain all those pyramids and ziggurats all over the world like that? China? South America? Africa?

    How? You’re telling me what? They traveled by ship back then and decided to landscape all these places with these huge stone buildings?

    How do you scientifically explain that these people attributed their knowledge to some god or other?

    Somewhere along the line we need reconciliation on these things.

    You offer explanations that science has just very recently theorized was the way and means for these spectacular monuments to have been built.

    The problem with science Paul. Is that in the absence of data, they offer theories. When the facts are all in, the science changes.

    Science isn’t perfect. Never was and never will be. It simply a logical way of discovering things. When you decide what data is acceptable and which isn’t then its biased and corrupted science.

    Usually this is done to better accomodate a certain theory.

    You know when you’ll believe? When an extraterrestial vehicle lands in central park and CNN shows a live broadcast of aliens coming out wearing what looks like ancient egyptian garb.

    Should that occur. I would hate to be you because your total belief system will be shattered.

    Not only have ancient astronauts been on earth Paul. But they were here before Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

    I don’t know what happened to these guys or if they lef anything behind. I don’t imagine that had they left anything behind we would be privy to such information. Perhaps they would divulge it later in the future after feeding us countless sci fi movies in preparation.

    I don’t know, but I speculate just as the next curious person would.

    With much respect,

    -Rico-

    Also, you should maybe try reading the Bible with a scientific mind bearing in mind that at the time these scriptures were written the people had very limited exposure to any technology.

    The excavations in the near east that have taken place over the last couple of hundred years have corroborated the Biblical cities therefore the stories have historical value.

    This may prove interesting to you also. Save the link for another day if you like but take a look sometime.

    http://www.bibleorigins.net/ningishzida.html

    I’m not going to debate anyone that wears blinders and cannot see anything unless its right in front of him. Its silly with no peripherals.

  239. Paul,

    “Nature must have stopped as soon as it hit the right DNA Combination”. Can anyone with a rational mind belive this statement?Do you think nature is so intelligent? Then why dont you see it still working towards an even improved DNA? Why haven’t we developed wings?
    And do you think we were lucky enough to be chosen “by chance” to be the winner of the Inter Galactic Lottery which enabled us to have evolve faster than our fellow primates??
    And what do you think made nature start working on the DNA Sequence and then stop on its own?
    How can a scientist credit these facts to mere chance?? Baffles me!

  240. Entire civilizations have vanished without a trace. If we can’t come up with a trace of a whole race of people that we know existed how can we come with remnants of ancient astronauts. Surely they would have been prudent enough to have exhausted every measure availbale to ensure they wouldn’t leave anything that could further advance our technological evolution. Although don’t get me wrong. I’m under the impression that there are objects still buried that have not been found.

    The irony of this whole “myth” is that mankind has actually repeated almost in exact the way the sunerians describe the atrocities these gods commited.

    Back in the days when the first so-called civilized nations started invading other less “civilized” countries and mixing with their women and teaching them their ways and bringing their religion. Its almost an exact duplicate of the Sumerian “myth”.

    Paul I know you won’t do it but I have to suggest it anyway. Read the 12th Planet by Zecharia Sitchin.

    He’s goes way out there with his theory but a lot of the book makes sense.

    Something happened back then. You can choose to believe the Hebrews later interpretation of the events ( The OT) or you can look into the later discovered Sumerian/Akkadian version. Something happened. It can be translated scientifically in which case we lean towards the ancient astrnaut theory or we choose to believe the more controversial spirit ghost metaphysical version adopted by the Hebrews when presenting their version of those events.

    The similarities in these godly myths in different cultures is no coincidence.

    You should know better than using coincidence in a scientific conversation.

    But don’t get me wrong. I understand your belief. You need concrete authenticated evidence before you accept it as fact.

    I understand. All I ask is that unless you’ve delved into the more speculative material available, you don’t discount it. Its like saying you can’t accept a theory without first hearing it.

    See u guys tomorrow,

    -R-

  241. Dear Espumpin,

    Even i tried to look up that post, buts gone from my view too! Strange…
    I guess i remember the gist of what GiJoe said… He said that our “physical constitution” was stronger than that of the Anunnaki, which had to do something with the Gold in our DNA, and the Anunnaki wanted to imbibe that in their own system as well…
    There was a comment about Carbon as well…
    It made sense because the properties of Mono Atomic Gold and other ORME are being revealed now…
    It was known by the name of “Manna”..
    White Powder of Gold

    Now read carefully Espumpin, i’m going to assemble lots of passages below, take your time, i’m sure you will be amazed by this….

    The White Powder of Gold is a multitude of things. It is in essence, the Elixir of Life. It is likewise, The Philosopher’s Stone of Alchemy, the “manna” of the ancient Hebrews, and even the “What is it?” of the ancient Egyptians. In science, the white powder of gold is the ORME — i.e. gold (or any of the Precious Metals) in a monoatomic form — which can result in Superconductivity within an organic body. Just keep in mind the proverbial “small print”: i.e., first consult with the discussion in Halexandria Forums.

    When the white powder of gold is mixed in water, it becomes the Elixir of Life, the alchemist’s dream — also known as The Golden Tear from the Eye of Horus, or “That which issues from the mouth of the creator.” It was also called as the “spittle of God” — not the word of God, but the spittle. Others referred to it as the semen of the father in heaven. [Putting the white powder in water doesn’t result in it dissolving. Instead, it forms a gelatinous suspension, and looks very much like a vial of semen.]

    For the alchemists, the goal had always been to make the white powder of gold, to make “the container of the light of life.” Thereafter, if you stood in its presence, you wouldn’t age. If you partook of it, you would live for ever. It’s history goes back to Enoch, Thoth,

    Hermes Trisgetimus, the same man by any other name, who ascended to heaven by partaking of the white drops, and thereby avoided death.

    In The Egyptian Book of the Dead and the Papyrus of Ani, by Budge [1] — based on a papyrus from Old Kingdom Egypt — there is a curious repetition of the phrase, “What is it?” Samples from the papyrus reads, “I am purified of all imperfections. What is it? I ascend like the golden hawk of Horus. What is it? I pass by the immortals without dying. What is it? I come before my father in Heaven. What is it?” The latter question repeats itself for hundreds of times throughout the lengthy ancient document.

    The “What is it?” literally translates into Hebrew as “manna”. Even a modern dictionary may define manna as “What is it?”. The manna was the “bread” taken by the high priest, the Melchizedek priest. Moses told the Hebrew people at one point, “You have not kept the covenant, and so the manna is being taken from you. But it will come back in the end times. When we will be a nation of high priests, not an elect high priesthood.”

    The manna, the white powder of gold, is the food, the light, one takes into their body. It is the Food of the Gods. A modern day Rabbi might tell you that no one has known how to make the manna, the white powder of Gold, since the destruction of the Temple of Solomon. The technique is, supposedly, a lost art or lost knowledge. But others argue that when the high priests left the Temple (when it was destroyed), the took the secret out into the desert and organized a commune called Qumrun. There, they became the Essenes. Eventually, the white powder was used to nourish a woman named Mary, and eventually, she gave birth to a man named Jesus. Some claim that it was the white powder of gold which allowed Jesus his many gifts, including his ascension into heaven.
    Furthermore, Moses, while Prince of Egypt, had access to learning the process himself. Whereupon at Mount Sinai (during the Exodus), he set up his own foundry, creating the ORME to be placed inside the Ark of the Covenant. The biblical description of Moses during his time on and off the Mount provides the evidence for this view, as well as the Ark’s incredible powers of Levitation and occasional “blasts of heavenly displeasure”.

    On Mount Serabit (aka Mount Horeb, the biblical Mount Sinai), there exists an extraordinary archaeological discovery: A temple dedicated to the Egyptian goddess, Hathor. One can in fact surmise that Moses was well aware of an operational Egyptian temple in the Sinai, and the Sinai was thus a safe haven for his flock of departing slaves. Thereafter, the temple was lost to the world until 1904 A.D., when a group of archeologists headed by Sir W. M. Flinders Petrie found the site.
    According to Laurence Gardner the real find, however, was “the discovery of a metal-lurgist’s crucible and a considerable amount of pure white powder” [1] on Mount Serabit. Also on the premises was a mysterious substance called mfkzt, which is referenced dozens of time on wall and stelae inscriptions. Gardner subsequently gives a convincing argument that the mfkzt — beside being unpronounceable — is, in fact, the White Powder of Gold. What Petrie, et al, had found was an Egyptian laboratory of Alchemy standards.
    The real clincher, however, is Exodus 32:20, where Moses took the ill-fated Golden Calf, which the errant Israelites had made, “and burnt it in the fire, and ground it to powder, and strawed it upon the water, and made the children of Israel drink of it.” [The emphasis on “it” is reminiscent of the Manna, the “What is it?” of the Egyptian Book of the Dead, The Papyrus of Ani.] The fact that “it” turned out to be an early form of a Kool-Aid mix for the children of Israel, is not some form of “wash-the-mouth-out-with-soap punishment, but instead was for the distinct benefit of the imbibers. They were receiving the ORME!

  242. All of that DNA that these biomedical people can’t figure out what it’s in your body for, it’s actually there to function, it just isn’t working right now. Right now we only use 8-10 percent of our brain. What’s the other 90 percent there for? Did we evolve a brain that we don’t use? I don’t think so. It’s like at some ancient time we used that brain, and we used that DNA, and we were a different person. Well that sure sounds awfully philosophical, doesn’t it. The Bible says that at one time we were the Adam Kadmon, we were the angelic being, and we have fallen to this animalistic state.

    But in the Bible, it says, that the day will come when the ancient of days returns here to Earth. Who is the ancient of days? The ancient of days is the Adam Kadmon, the original man. When this man returns here and he literally can read your thoughts in your mind without you opening your mouth, how much more could you ever be judged? No more skeletons in the closet, no more hidden agendas. Everything’s known. In the Bible they call it the opening of the book of life. It’s the time that everything gets judged, everything gets revealed.

  243. Dear Ricoh, Amit Leah,
    can you enlighten me?
    You dig out all these unexplained things. But, sure I’m a bit stupid, I don’t get the point of what you are trying to say.
    What are you going to prove, or say with it?
    thanks
    Martin

  244. Just imagine.
    2000 years ago russian helicopter pilots landed in Rome. Giant people with helmets on. How would they then describe them, or picture them and their airplane. Take into account the description of the germanic tribe of them – huge giant people riding on horses with their feet touching the ground. They were quite scared of them 2000 years ago.
    2000 years later in 2008 we find in a hidden cave in Italy the description of these helicopter pilots.
    Of course we would all assume that they are aliens, coming from a different starsystem.
    And at that time these pilots told the Romans that they were from Russia.
    Now we would be all looking for the planet X that is called Russia, or what?
    Its now tuesday 1 pm 40 minutes. here. Am I your future?

  245. What will happen will happen, but we should look forward to see that we dont rape mother earth as we have done before and continuing to do the same and save environment and stop thinking about the dooms day and crap, if it is destined to happen it will but lets stop all this non sense and save mother earth from the mounting human desires which is not a good sign

  246. Dear Paul,
    Thank you for the info. May I ask re the source, as I’d like to know how that conclusion was reached. Much like the calculations of a theorum. Maybe info about how far above and below the plane we travel will be included too.
    Leah

  247. A small reminder. All that is in space has not been detected, and so M113 may yet be. To say it doesn’t exist, because it has not yet been detected, is to announce that, all that can exist does, and human astronomers have catalogued everything.

  248. It’s good to start the working day with a laugh. Richochet. “If we can’t come up with a trace of a whole race of people that we know existed …. ” How does that work then? If there’s no trace how do you know they existed? Oh yes, the ancients in their circling saucers told you.
    You lot keep on about ancient aliens who came here and there is proof. Where? Don’t tell me it’s all around us, that is no answer.

  249. Amit and Richochet keep asking me for proof of science. The onus is on you to provide me with proof that aliens exist and have visited; the original article exposed the false claims of a geo-mag reversal and the immediate response from you is to decry it spouting rubbish and scribblings from Mayan texts. You then follow that with quotations from Sumerian and biblical texts. Still no proof from you. This is a science site not a place to air your rather tired and discredited notions of aliens building pyramids and guiding the human race. If you can’t provide proof beyond Velikosky and von Daniken just shut up.

  250. Here’s a good one. A Harvard medical team of scientists, experiment with clay mixture of montmorillonite, to see if life on earth was formed by clay.
    Its science, because they’re Harvard folk……but its Myth and unworthy of addressing, when written about in ancient texts. Hypochracy personified.

  251. Dear Paul,
    Thank you again for the information, I’ll check it out. Re M113, I was using it as an example only, to point out that we have not discovered or named all that is out there. A fool tired of learning or is indolent, convinces themselves they know it all. True enough…..they know all that they are personally going to ever know.
    Leah

  252. Dear Paul,
    Before I go any further, I need your ground RULES….as in… what may I address.
    When discussing astronomy, it seems that the following are off limits….but correct me if I’m wrong.
    Chemical compostion
    Geological composition
    Any historical references
    Tectonics
    Volcanology
    Seismology
    Atmospherics
    Meteorology
    Climatology
    Possible biological properties
    Any theories, scientific or otherwise.

    Without taking all the above, and more, into consideration, I cannot see a way forward in discussion.
    Leah

  253. Ricochet. Which 12th planet would that be then? If it’s big enough to support life it should be visible to NASA/ESA etc. Or perhaps it has a cloaking device?

  254. What is there to discuss or debate re established, and accepted facts like 2+2=4.
    Or that Earth orbits the Sun…..even the why has been established.
    If we are not here to discuss or brainstorm those things which we do not as yet understand, either fully or in part…..then what is it that we are supposed to post about ?

  255. In the absence of data science looks for it and experiments to find it. While it does speculate it works out a theory and then performs experiments time after time. It doesn’t say there’s no evidence therefore aliens did it. Science won’t offer a definitive answer unless the weight of provable evidence suggests it.

  256. Amit/ricochet. I can’t remember who said it now but where is your documentary proof that the pyramids were built 11,000 BCE? Even taking into account the slight discrepancy in some of the texts regarding Rameses II written Egyptian records and current dating points to the first one at Saqqara around 2620 B.C. and the big three at Giza between 2589-2504 B.C. The final major one was built, I think, at Hawara around 1830B.C. Nothing like 11,000BCE/9000BC. But of course don’t let the facts standing the way of a fantasy.

  257. Leah. It takes the earth/solar system approximately 225 million years to orbit the galaxy. In that time the solar system bobs up and down across the galactic plane around 3 times per revolution.

  258. Rico. Remote viewing CIA sponsored. Didn’t see anything about MIT?Stanford/Oxford/Cambridge/Brunel etc. Have to admit I didn’t go ALL the way throurgh as was pushed for time but will go back. The security agencies have always gone in for crap. You may like to know that in the 1980’s the FBI undertook a study to explode H-bombs in the past, 1952 to be precise, as a way of stopping the Soviet Union developing their own H-bomb project. The FBI spent tens of millions of dollars before realising it was unfeasible. The 1980’s eh? Too much cocaine.

  259. Espumin. Graham Clark was an archaeologist educated at Cambridge UK. Sirius B was discovered by Alvan Clark [middle name Graham]. I know all about the Dogon legends and Temple’s book the Sirius Mystery. But as Sagan replied the chances of cultural contamination are quite high. Missionaries, traders etc were wandering around Africa in their thousands in the late 19tgh early 20th centuries so it’s not impossible.

  260. Now we’ve moved on to alchemy! White powder bestowing eternal life! More coke stories. All we need now are the astrologerrs horning in on the group and all the lunatics will be here cluttering up the science pages. Oh yes, and welcome to the hippies who spout the usual nonsense about a better life if we only stopped doing what we are doing and return to some agrarian idyll that never existed. Look boyos if it wasn’t for science and technology we’d ALL still believe in Moloch/Baal/Thoth/Re and the creatures of the night and we’d be living in the mud.

  261. In the middle of typing a post re Betelgeuse, the site rubbed it out, like so many other occasions, during the past few days. Its very fussy about subject matter. So my deduction is…..I can write what I like, so long as its approved of and permitted. Welcome to 21 century designer freedom.

  262. Nothing I’ve seen here for a while has any relation to science, astronomy, space flight or cosmology except for Leah’s query regarding galactic rotation. Can we have more of the same please otherwise don’t bother.

  263. Dear Espumpin,
    I’m familiar with your recommendation, but listened again anyway. Would that the likes of, and Carl Sagan had lived longer, and that all would take time and trouble to listen to them. I wonder if Paul, who seems to hold Sagan in high esteem, thinks any less of him for having made the film CONTACT.

    I can say this to you now, welcome to some of my perspectives of the cosmos and everything. You can now begin to perceive of the comfort level I have reached, re the universe and how it functions, and that which is beyond this universe.
    Over specialising, as letters after my name, would have narrowed my vista of thought so much, it would have precluded and prohibited me from seeing the bigger picture, like trying to see the entire contents of a room through the key hole of a locked door.
    Be well, Leah.

  264. I was laughed at, per se, when long ago I said “Space contained free floating atoms, etc etc, and so at least the regions we knew about then, were not a true vacuum”…..but thats not to say there were no regions that are true vacuums. Just not in our vicinity of space.
    That concept is no longer funny, as our desire to travel in space, and at greater and greater speeds, are hindered by the damage that these particles would cause to space craft…and so we must attend to the developement of shield technology before, especially manned space travel can be safely undertaken at great speeds.

  265. Dear Espumpin,
    To ensure the continued belief of the masses, in both things and ways, that are not so.
    Leah

  266. Dear Espumpin,
    Any person can choose not to react. Any person can choose what they believe. Non resistance is not acceptance by default.
    So if people watch the show, then when the show is over, simply continue to believe in what they choose, and go about their daily business, there is no resistance with which to justify a new round of Holy wars……like the crusades.
    Its about how to try to uphold the continuation of an old lie.
    Leah

  267. This from Feenix posted on 5th October ’08 at 02:28.
    I have come across absolutely no prediction by the Maya (sic) that the World will end when the current Long Count ends.

    I HAVE come across directives, written in stone, about what to do on certain dates after the alleged End of the World. Most notable:
    Chief Pacal of Palenque wanted the 80th “Calendar Round Anniversary” (calender round = ca.52 years) of his accession celebrated in a BIG way, and to make sure nobody forgot, he had the date and instructions inscribed on a plaque: October 21st, 4772…
    So the Maya didn’t predict the end of the world in four years time then? Perhaps they should have got their story straight with the Sumerians first.

  268. People should get to grips with self control.
    Not allow theirs emotions to dictate their verbal or physical reactions.
    Sudden verbal outburst, instead of considered and measured response…..or silence, just like uncontrolled physical reaction, is to play into hands that thrive by feeding off cacaphony and chaos.

  269. good morning…everyone..

    just a couple quick thoughts…very quick since they must be restricted to scientific jargon–which we all know i fail miserably at…

    paul, there is a “science” to everything… even though it may not be your area of expertise, please do not be so quick to discard them as “bad drug trips”…DNA is basis fundametal science…with a lot of loopholes and unanswered questions–as like in your own field…

    i have a couple “space” questions for you:

    what do YOU think would necessitate the building of the SPT??? what is your “take” on HAARP??? why do you think a country (or government) would even consider NOT repairing the Hubbell telescope? and then there is the International space station, which we very seldom hear about anymore…but cost billions to build and maintain…yet we are not privy to any of the pictures or film footage shot by our astronauts (except by whistleblowers on conspiracy-theory websites) that clearly show unidentifiable “flying objects” trekking across the planes???

    would love to know what you think…i understand that there are “politics” involved here…though this is NOT your basic “political science”, either…

    best wishes…

  270. an afterthought—does “politics” have any play whatsoever in what you can or cannot disclose?

  271. Just flicked through some earlier posts to see if there was anything worth commenting on and came across this.Amit Says:
    November 3rd, 2008 at 8:22 pm
    Welcome Espumpin and Rico!
    Becky and a few others need to turn up and this new thread will surely look like “Home”…

    Fraser Cain, be prepared for another pag overloaded with comments! Cant help it, sorry!
    So that’s your game is it? Hijacking a legitimate science discussion group and fill it with blathering nonsense about alien science, making it your “Home” thus driving all the sensible respondants away. Very shabby indeed. Haven’t you and your tribe got enough space in the internet already?

  272. The last thing I’ll comment on re the Mayan Calendar. If one uses their astronomical configuration as at the start date of their calendar, it is possible to calculate by the positions of the constellations / stars upon which date their calendar ends.

    Apart from the rehashing of “calendars” several times throughout history, I have yet to find an astronomer who can conclusively proove what year we are ACTUALLY in according to the positions of the contellations etc. No Astrologer either.

    Naomi had posted on the other thread re….It could be 2012 now.

  273. Dear Espumpin,
    Tom said he’d moved to Mexico, and Bad Barts I’m sure, looks in on the thread.

    Everyone should make like a tree, and let the wind blow through their branches, wrather than being like a wall that the wind blows down, due to its resistivity.
    Leah

  274. Well at least Just A Thought and his bunch of nutters have gone. Mind you as they’re heading for M113, which we know doesn’t exist, perhaps they’ll get lost out in space on their way to nowhere. Happy days.

  275. Virtually any astronomy book barring a beginners book will give you the basics about galactic evolution and the solar system’s position. For a more detailed explanation including formulae regarding velocity, motion etc either look for any advanced astro or technical books or go to an online site such as Cambridge Institute for Astronomy, I think, the American Institute for Astronomy, I think. Off the top of my head I’m not too sure of the exact names but they’er something like that. If in doubt google the solar systems galactic position and motion. Go to the first 2 or 3 sites otherwise you’ll end up on a site occupied by the likes of Amit and Rico and you’ll nothing factual. You could come away believing the great god Cthulu has attached strings to the sun and it’s retinue and is pulling us up and down through the galactic plane.

  276. Leah,
    Virtually any astronomy book barring a beginners book will give you the basics about galactic evolution and the solar system’s position. For a more detailed explanation including formulae regarding velocity, motion etc either look for any advanced astro or technical books or go to an online site such as Cambridge Institute for Astronomy, I think, the American Institute for Astronomy, I think. Off the top of my head I’m not too sure of the exact names but they’re something like that. If in doubt google the solar systems galactic position and motion. Go to the first 2 or 3 sites otherwise you’ll end up on a site occupied by the likes of Amit and Rico and you’ll nothing factual. You could come away believing the great god Cthulu has attached strings to the sun and it’s retinue and is pulling us up and down through the galactic plane.

  277. Well paul, I tried. You claim to want to have scientific conversations, but they are are limited to a certain type of science. We don’t have enough time to “MASTER” one subject, we had enough to master some and then become a jack of a few other trades. I gave you proof and names and links and all you could do is attack -R & Amit. Is my science not science enough for you? Any way Amit thankyou looks like you put forth some research and linked this up tightly. White Gold, Manna? Seams like I gotta break out my Bible again. Do you really think thats what Gj was trying to tell us? & why would that post, how can that post disappear? I feel like Gj posted that explanation. SPT, HAARP, Hubbell telescope, Remote viewing, Mono Atomic Gold, CNV, pole shift, The Dark Flow, The Great Attractor , Dark Matter /Energy, seed and gene vaults have all been discussed here so far and then I read from Paul Eaton-Jones Says:
    November 11th, 2008 at 4:03 am
    Nothing I’ve seen here for a while has any relation to science, astronomy, space flight or cosmology except for Leah’s query regarding galactic rotation. Can we have more of the same please otherwise don’t bother. What??? not only can we hang with you on what we now feel is a mute point, so much more than some pole shift which will be the least of which that can happen but you cannot open your mind enough to engage in a talk about Sir W. M. Flinders Petrie findings. like Becky said but maybe you have to read it again….”paul, there is a “science” to everything… even though it may not be your area of expertise, please do not be so quick to discard them as “bad drug trips”…DNA is basis fundametal science…with a lot of loopholes and unanswered questions–as like in your own field…” So when you think that we have nothing better to do than take over a website, Maybe your right. I do not apoligize for my friends and I are not close minded have much to share and unlike some ppl listen to everything without judgement and use what we feel implies and pass on to the next person only our opinion without prejudice. OKAY, I hope everyone enjoys their day off i’m off to the movies or blockbuster we’re not to sure which yet. catch everyone on the flip side.

    Espumpin

  278. Leah,
    The M designation refers to a catalogue compiled in th e18th century by a French astronomer called Charles Messier [M]. He was primarily a comet hunter and in order for himself and others not to get confused by which might or might not have been comets he listed all the objects in the night sky that could be mistaken for faint, fuzzy comets. The list included planetary nebulae, galaxies [which weren’t at the time know to exist] e.g. M31 Andromeda galaxy, gaseous clouds [emission and reflection nebulae]. As the optics on telescopes at the time weren’t good enough to resolve faint and distant objects the list contains a confusing myriad of stuff. His original list contained 110 objects which is why anything designated M113 is rubbish. Should “Just A Thought” and his barmy army actually be extra-terrestrials and heading home neither we or they would refer to their home system/planet as M113.
    I’m glad you’re asking the group astronomical questions. No doubt some other astronomers will be tempted back once they know serious enquiries are being made that require serious answers.

  279. Before I go, on the off subject and kinda on the gross side….
    Tom Barlow.
    Apr 2nd 2008 at 5:00PM

    Filed under: Retire, Travel

    For those who want something special to commemorate the passing of a loved one, I commend your attention to a couple of new options for that urn full of ashes. Other than using them on icy sidewalks, that is, as a funeral home in England did recently.

    The first option, from LifeGem promises to take your loved one’s ashes (which are primarily carbon, at this point,) and form them into a form them into a diamond. The man-made gem is a genuine diamond, with all the sparkle and durability of the original. The price is a bit steep, though; a carat stone will set you back almost $20,000. Still, I’m sure some people would gladly pay this much to keep their spouse wrapped around their finger.
    Is this too morbid for anyone else? If we can turn our dead loved ones into diamonds what will the annunaki turn us into if we’re alive. And what if M113 is already catalogue and is a destination that we simply don’t have the info on yet?
    Okay really gotta go now, but i’m off today so “I’LL BE BACK” lol
    E

  280. I’m buggered if I going to hack my way through rants about manna from heaven, alchemy etc in your or anyone else’s posts just to find a question or comment about astronomy. My principal field of interest and expertise, such as it is, lies in astronomy, cosmology [the real sort not religious creation myths] geology, primate evolution and archaeology. Hurling numbers at me about DNA pairs, splicing and the Fibonaci Series amidst a crazed, foam-flecked rant is not going to endear me to either you or the subject. While I have a slight interest in biology I certainly don’t know enough to give you definitive answers or make grandiose statements.
    The people here where I work who have a vast knowledge of biology, biological systems and genetics who have been good enough cast an eye over some of the claims have either snorted in derision or tell me that the respondants are deliberately twisting and mis-representing the actual facts to fit their demented theories.

  281. M113 ISN’T catalogued because Messier’s catalogue only went up to 110. Check it out on an astronomy site.

  282. thats crazy, but is it not what Captain A warned about that was gonna happen???
    Our posts would be monitered??????

  283. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
    Carl Sagan
    All of the books in the world contain no more information than is broadcast as video in a single large American city in a single year. Not all bits have equal value.
    Carl Sagan
    But the fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
    Carl Sagan
    I’ll find others from Aubrey Burl & Dawkins,Henry Hodges a nd Clark. Good to see they were open-mnded.
    E.

  284. Dear Just a Thought,
    Good to know you are well. D mentioned posturing. Many who do, fail to notice how easily others can capitalise on their posturing.
    Further, how the asking of a question is taken as an assumption that the enquirer has no knowlege of that field.
    Andre mentioned 2 points, probability, and carbon dating. Likewise Paul contributes.
    Good night, Leah

  285. Never to late to learn, huh? Me I thank Paul for the new 411. As ignorant as I had been most of my life I didn’t think anything could get thru this thick-head. This is from
    DR. Carl Sagon Who I think i’ll be researching & reading about for a long time to come. Read this, its from “Who speak for the earth”………………
    We are a way for the cosmos to know itself. We are creatures of the cosmos and always hunger to know our origins, to understand our connection with the universe. How did everything come to be? Every culture on the planet has devised its own response to the riddle posed by the universe. Every culture celebrates the cycles of life and nature. There are many different ways of being human.

    But, an extraterrestrial visitor examining the differences among human societies would find those differences trivial compared to the similarities. We are one species. We are star stuff harvesting star light. Our lives, our past and our future are tied to the sun, the moon and the stars. Our ancestors knew that their survival depended on understanding the heavens. They built observatories and computers to predict the changing of the seasons by the motions in the skies. We are all of us descended from astronomers.
    I hope this will bring me to a new level of understanding why I had so many doubts.
    Espumpin

  286. To my fellow camp members…..and to Paul.
    It would seem that if there can be little peace in such a place as this…..it is no wonder that the human species does not share Planet Earth peacefully.
    If one cannot master peaceful debate, or to at least ignore one another, we are far from being able to achieve global peace.

    John my husband was right, if you can’t do the little tasks well, you’re not ready to attempt bigger tasks.

  287. How they plan to bring about a lie.

    What is the Blue Beam Project?
    by David Openheimer

    It involves two things. A technologically simulated “second coming” and the reemmrgence of new “MONTAUK” type projects that have the ability to take up a whole bunch of people as in a “rapture” type of situation and whisk the whole bunch into never-never land. Ironically, portions of the holographic projections have the potential for changing the planet into oneness with God. Unfortunately, this operates on the premise that Man shall somehow become God in human form and control other Men and dictate all actions and thoughts. The calculated resistance to the new religion, the New World Order and the new “Messiah” will entail human loss on a massive scale in the ensuing “holy wars”.The “BLUE BEAM PROJECT” will pretend to be the universal fulfillment of the prophecies of old; as major an event as that which took place 2000 years ago. In principle, it will make use of the sky as a holographic projection screen for space-based laser-generating satellites (star wars). These projectors will project simultaneous images to the four corners of the planet, in every language by region. It deals with the religious aspect of the NEW WORLD ORDER.

    The “system” has already been tested. Holographic projections of the “CHRIST IMAGE” have already been seen in some remote desert areas. These have only been reported in tabloid papers, so they are instantly rendered moot. They can also project images of alien craft, aliens, monsters, angels – you name it. Computers will coordinate the satellites and software will run the show-and-tell.

    Will they show us an alien landing? Why would this really be created?
    Espumpin

  288. On the off subject again Just a Thought & C.A. This for youse.
    WAKE UP AMERICA-
    WASHINGTON (Nov. 11) – A Republican congressman from Georgia said Monday he fears that President-elect Obama will establish a Gestapo-like security force to impose a Marxist dictatorship.
    “It may sound a bit crazy and off base, but the thing is, he’s the one who proposed this national security force,” Rep. Paul Broun said of Obama in an interview Monday with The Associated Press. “I’m just trying to bring attention to the fact that we may — may not, I hope not — but we may have a problem with that type of philosophy of radical socialism or Marxism.”
    Broun cited a July speech by Obama that has circulated on the Internet in which the then-Democratic presidential candidate called for a civilian force to take some of the national security burden off the military.
    “That’s exactly what Hitler did in Nazi Germany and it’s exactly what the Soviet Union did,” Broun said. “When he’s proposing to have a national security force that’s answering to him, that is as strong as the U.S. military, he’s showing me signs of being Marxist.”
    This may not be geo-astro-space/time cosmic stuff. But if we don’t pay attention a cosmic event may be the last of our worries.
    Leah, Your 100% right. Where is BBart & Tom?
    Espumpin

  289. Hey Pauly, welcome back!

    I see that its impossible for you to govern yourself with regards to using insulting threads when you don’t agree with someone so I’ll accept you as the weakling that you are.

    I also see that you continue to pick and choose which questions directed at you you wish to answer. I guess you looked and science can’t explain why it was that civilization sprung up in one location on earth almost overnight.

    Paul this site requires no proof from anyone. We’re here because we’re interested in the subject and we all have ideas.

    This is what wikipidia has to say about a geomagnetic shift :

    The Earth’s magnetic north pole is drifting from northern Canada towards Siberia with a presently accelerating rate — 10km per year at the beginning of the 20th century, up to 40km per year in 2003.[7] It is also unknown if this drift will continue to accelerate.

    So now we know. The real question should be how a SUDDEN MAJOR shift would affect us all.

    We all choose to read different material and we choose whats believable to us.

    Your science was once under the impression that the world was flat. Things change. Someday, something else will be discovered and you will say, now its true. Before it wasn’t true but now it is which is stupid in itself. It shows your lack of thought or imagination. If it isn’t something regarded as acceptable by very conservative science then its not acceptable to you

    I was looking at a rerun of the Brady Bunch the other day and their maid had made them all a wonderful healthy dinner which consisted of this huge steak with lotsa potatos and gravy and buttered biscuits. She said something about making sure they all got their daily portion of red meat. Oh but wait a minute. That was old science wasn’t it? Daily red meat isn’t all that good for you is it?

    Science changes.

    Science is only an explanation for whats been discovered and sometimes its wrong at that. As for lost civilizations, ever heard of the Olmecs? Ever heard of the Ubadians?

    Did you ever take a look at the Baalbek link I put up? No, all you did was poke fun at aliens.

    Its ok man. You don’t believe in God, gods, or aliens. This does not mean that they aren’t real does it? You are not the last authority on this matter. You simply have an opinion like anyone else.

    Theres an old saying that I’m rather fond of: Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and they all stink.

    I find it somewhat difficult dealing with closed minded fools like yourself whom it seems only understands insults and the like but I do this for entertanment so I’ll continue.

    This is a free blog to express our opinions man and if you don’t like it. YOU can STFU.

    Martin, if you want to know what we’re talking about look up in Google the word Anunnaki and then look up the biblical passage Genesis 6. This is what we’re talking about.

    Paul, why was the SPT built in antartica? there are many other more hospitable locations that would have accomplished the same end results those scientist claim to be studying.

    So many lies so many secrets.

    Paul seems to think that our Government tells us everything. It reaveals all scientific discoveries immediately so that we can all be informed.

    And Santas gonna bring you a brand new telescope this Xmas so that you can look at your true home, the moon, you lunatic.

    Tired of crap,

    -R-

  290. When the ancient built these cities with the temples and all they had logistics to consider. There was no more hunter/gatherer existance. It was animal doestication and agriculture and watering and waste management and literature and schooling, commerce and laws.

    I don’t see the logic where anyone can even imagine that these insights would come to a civilization overnight. All of these things discovered at once!! At once!! Thats how science describes what happened at Sumer.

    Todays science cannot explain how this event occured yet Paul wants us to believe that science explains it all.

    Everywhere I’ve looked I can’t find an explanation. So what do I do? I look to see what the actual civilization tells us happened. Guess what they said?

    They said that the gods that came from above gave them the knowledge. But the scienece of today that can’t explain shit chooses not to accept what the people that were actually there have to say about it.

    Is it me or is this a literral retarded scientific approach?

    If I want to know aboout something that happened I ask someone that was there. Not a monday morning quaterback that will tell me how he would have had it done.

    Its stupid to argue this point with someone thats derisive such as Paul is.

    The good thing about all this is that its about to come to a head. The next few years will be amazing. This is and will continue to be the most exciting time to be alive. We will bear witness to amazing and spectacular events.
    Many will be left in wonder.

    Paul, dersions does not make your opinions more viable dude. It just makes you sound like the rich kids making fun of the poor. This is 2008. That attitude is understood scientifically todays as some kind of insecurity. You sure you ain’t scared?

    -R-

  291. P J said, “My principal field of interest and expertise, such as it is, lies in astronomy, cosmology” let us pause for a moment of silence as his attitude overwhelms us.

  292. An exchange of ideas is a means of gaining another perspective not a way of ramming your beliefs up someones

  293. lol, I love this site. It’s 8pm here time for nite-nite. G’nite my friends may tomorrow find us with greater insight or as Gj said………….
    May your light find you.
    Espumpin

  294. paul–here’s an oxymoron for you—

    there’s a much bigger world out there than just your universe…

  295. Hello Friends,

    Must say that the last few comments were very interesting…
    I particularly liked the questions put to Pauly by Becky and Leah… And to follow it up, Rico hit the nail in the head when he said “paul just chooses which questions he wants to answer”..
    This is what i want to ay to Paul –

    ““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““““

    He is so stiff headed, let me see if these Air Waves pass through!

  296. Just A Thought,

    Good to hear from you…
    I’m sure you would be having the time of your life reading the comliments from Pauly! Just like me and some others here!
    Its really great to know that some people have such good ESP or Remote Viewing Skills that they are able to tell us about our own lives ( Or the lack of it…)

  297. I dont understand why its so hard to believe that M113 might be possible….
    Maybe they are using this name so that we can relate the object to Messier’s Catalogue..
    We, on Earth have no right to say that such and such body does not exist because it has not been seen or proved..
    For that matter, i may start believing that Antartctica does not exist! Simply because i have not seen it.. Others may have seen it but why should i believe them??

    And i found this comment from Paul quite interesting – “Hurling numbers at me about DNA pairs, splicing and the Fibonaci Series amidst a crazed, foam-flecked rant is not going to endear me to either you or the subject. While I have a slight interest in biology I certainly don’t know enough to give you definitive answers or make grandiose statements.”
    Look at his attitude!!! When we provide scientific facts, he says that we are hurling numbers at him! And when we quote ancient texts, he discards it as rubbish!
    Paul, if you think of Fibonnaci Series and DNA as “Crazed, Foam-Flecked Rant”, then i must say that i have never seen any man do more disgrace to Science than you, by calling himself a man of science!!
    And get this notion out of your head that i want to endear myself to you! I tried to find some shreds of civility and logic in you, but i failed miserably!

    And its high time that you stop acting as the “Owner” of this thread. Dot tell us to Shut Up. If you cant cope than pack up and leave, or continue your bullish monologue, i dont care!

  298. Sorry Leah, I know you don’t want us to stoop down to the name calling level when we encounter one but I duon’t know…It was fun?

    I won’t do it again. I promise I’ll handle all the loud mouthed incredulous threads with more sensitivity in the future. I’ll leave Paul on his high horse and I won’t direct any threads at him again.

    I already said what I had to say on that and like my good friend says “its is what it is”, nothing you can do.

    have a good nite friends,

    -R-

  299. Dear Espumpin,

    Like i said, i dont remember exactly what G Joe said.. But i am pretty sure that this is what he was referring to… And whatever research i have done after that to follow it up was presented to you..
    People may find hard to stomach (No pun intended) Manna or White Gold.. But substances rich in Iridium and Rhosium (Natural ORME) have always been known to possess extra-ordinary capabilities… Grapes, Carrots, Aloe Vera.. Aloe Vera is being re-discovered these days and people are slowly realising its wonderful properties… Arthritis, Asthma, Obesity, Blood Pressure… tell me something which Aloe Vera cannot cure! And these substances still have a relatively small measure of ORME as compared to Mono Atomic Gold.. Just imagine what good it would do if there was enough faith and enough expertise available to guide people towards the correct ingestion process….
    And Paul, Shut Up! Pre-emptive strike, i just knew that you would be itching to reply to this!

  300. Rico,

    I admire your resolve…
    Because i am not sure i can make such a promise.. And you know as surely as i do that Pauly Dude is gonna be back with venegeance!

  301. When will everyone stop believing in this nonsense! This almost sounds like the 21st century version of SNAKE OIL…Global Warming! Like the old adage, If they can’t sell it to you, they will scare you into buying it!

    …When all else fail, manipulate the data…

  302. Everything is relative to everything else. Its why physics etc seeks a unified theory that applies to both the Macrocosm and Microcosm. A unified theory has to explain that which is Above and that which is Below.

    Dear Paul,
    This is not a British website, all people writing here are not English, and the days of Empire are no longer. So, why insult someone who has bothered to learn English, re the spelling and reading capability. How many languages do you speak or write in ? It is a British failing to shout louder and louder at foreigners, which you have achieved in writing.
    There are still those that think of the whole world as being the foreigners, her in the UK. Some when abroad on holiday, consider the locals the foreigners, when in fact its the Brits that are the foreigners.
    Leah

  303. In general. Men and their posturing….it is the argument and the fight that they enjoy, not the subject matter so much. Too much time and space being wasted here, and globally on self justification, and why each is right, and the other wrong, justifying why they are justifying…….and the what is gone.

    Dear Ricochet,
    Thank you……we’ll see, like the blind man said.

  304. Global Scamming,

    If any data manipulation is being done, its the govt. who is doing it…. Because they are the masters of this art.

  305. The truth about e.g. Messier’s list and M113.
    If further objects were to be discovered akin to those on Messier’s list of 110 in total, a new list would be created, in order to be able to differentiate, and leave Messier’s list unaltered. A different tagging system would be applied. So if there have been further discoveries the tagging would not begin with M111.

    Paul, does your particular field encompass in any way, The Cosmic Web, Dark Flow or Great Attractor, Dark Energy / Matter ? Not my labels…..these were the titles given by your fellow scientists.
    Leah

  306. Leah. Whatever ground rules there are they certainly aren’t mine. What I’m trying to get across to the crackers here is that this is a site supposedly devoted to astronomy/cosmology/space explorationm and similar scientific subjects. Practically everything you list would come under the heading of, “let’s discuss”. As far as I’m concerned alien visitations gods of any stripe are not relevent here.

  307. In the Sun newspaper Nov 5th, pictures of an object in the sky, and a red beam. For some, unaware of the latest laser weapons tech, its a UFO. For those that are aware, of laser, and e.g. Compressed Sound, tech…..it was a test. Me, I leave room for a couple percent doubt, because I was not there.

    So, not having been around the last time the poles shifted, flipped, reversed, I cannot be sure that enough data has been gathered, or whether it is a complete representation of all the conditions that were the cause.
    One thing that can be relied upon is change….when a pole shift or reversal next occurs, it will be different to a degree, than the last time.

    Had an object from space passed Earth close by, in the past, only its effects might be evident. Like a house that has burnt to the ground. The cause, being the flames are no longer visible, or inspectable, but their effect can be analysed.

    Never say never. It is not for man to decide what is in the cosmos. So, just because one cannot detect something to date, does not mean it won’t be detectable in future….especially re telescopes that are operating with a greater, and different range of frequencies.

  308. Leah. As I’ve said previously, I believe that alien civilisations exist somewhere, indeed everywhere, in the universe so Carl Sagan writing a book about it is no problem, why should it be? The film was ok. I belong to The Planetary Society and have sent money to the SETI Project. I see no incompatibilty between wanting to search for life out there, believing it exists and scoffing at the lunatics who say aliens built all the stone monuments during prehistory.

  309. Dear Paul,
    Now I begin to understand you a little……I was born in Wales too…..Head of the Rhondda Valley.
    Leah

  310. Espumpin. Not only are you unable to spell but it seems that you are unable to read properly. I agree with Sagan [not Sagon] that life exists out there but nowhere does he say that the gods primitive people worshipped were aliens who visited earth and nowhere does he say that megaliths were erected by aliens.

  311. Dear Paul,
    I am aware of their astronomical nature…..I had asked whether they were included in your specific field ?
    I ask so that if they are not…..I won’t bring them up again.
    Leah

  312. Campfire….if one wanted to know what might have been meant by M113…..now you have it by formula. Paul has kindly provided the name and list where the 3rd object on the list MAY BE what was refered to as M113.

  313. I didn’t say the Fibonaci series, DNA splicing etc were foam-flecked rants. I said that putting scientific data/ideas in with rants about ancients gods and the howling you and some others indulge in isn’t worth trawling thrrough. Once again you read only what you want to see. As for me not answering all the questions you and your ravening horde hurl at me well I haven’t the time or inclination to give the wild stuff my time. Talk to me about astronomy and I’ll resspond otherwise go and bother your gods.

  314. Our position in the Galaxy / Space, both as Earth and as part of the Solar System, is determined by the observations of Astronomy / Cosmology. The observable positions of stars, constellations etc. Our position, determines where and when our Solar system is re the Galactic year, NOT clocks or calendars.
    Is this a fair description ?

  315. Paul, Becky asked you the following questions –

    what do YOU think would necessitate the building of the SPT??? what is your “take” on HAARP??? why do you think a country (or government) would even consider NOT repairing the Hubbell telescope? and then there is the International space station, which we very seldom hear about anymore…but cost billions to build and maintain…yet we are not privy to any of the pictures or film footage shot by our astronauts (except by whistleblowers on conspiracy-theory websites) that clearly show unidentifiable “flying objects” trekking across the planes???

    One would think that they all relate to Astronomy…… Whats your take on these?

    And here’s what Rico asked about SPT –

    “Paul, why was the SPT built in antartica? there are many other more hospitable locations that would have accomplished the same end results those scientist claim to be studying.”

    Do you have any answers? Please enlighten us.

  316. As I said earlier I’m trying to answer the questions as they come up unlike you. Whre’s the evidence for the pyramids being built in 11000 BCE? If you read a previous post about the construction dates perhaps you’d be prepared to comment.
    #I will be back later but I’m on a break.

  317. Greetings from M113,
    Yes Amit it is entertaining,
    we can be sure that there are even people who think PJ is wise and open minded but at PJs own advice I do not believe it because it has not been seen.
    BWT-
    Anyone know where I can find a blacksmith skilled at working with unattainum? My unicorn needs a new set of shoes made.

  318. To whoever. I’ve forgotten which one of it was. ‘My’ science never thought the world was flat. The Greeks, the real ancient ones with knowledge, worked out it was round. I think it was Eratosthenes or Aristotle work ‘discovered’ that.
    Yes geo-mag poles are wandering as htey always have and always will it’s just thatthey won’t flip and happen suddenly. See the original article at the top of the page.
    You and the other idiots here refuse to accept science and scientific enquiry because it doesn’t provide you with the comfort offered by religion/visiting aliens or conspiracy theories. Ooo, the government are hiding stuff from me. Of course they are but it’s not the ‘truth’ about alien visitations. If yoyu have to resort to quoting the Brady Bunch …. well I’m laughing out loud at that because if you have to go to those lengths I think reason may yet carry the day.
    Yes I did look at Baalbek. Big stones. So what? Stonehenge. Big stones. Moved by and erected by the inhabitants of the British Isles.
    Science facilities are often built in remote place away from light pollution, contamination and as far as away as possible from people like you to cut down interference [and I don’t mean from telepathy/telekenises]
    Check out what I said previously about aliens. They exist but no evidence they’re here or have visited.
    If you perceive me as the guardian of this site well thank you. If sane people don’t defend reason and rationality then you lunatics will finally have taken over the asylum. But I’m certainly not any sort of guardian as I notice one or two inhabitants of the real world are adding comments. Hurrah, we’ll beat the buggers yet.

  319. Damn. Just when you think it’s safe to put your head out back comes ‘Just A Thought’. Space ship break down on the way to M113 did it? Perhaps you’d like to give us the coordinates/constellation etc so we can wave to it in the night sky. If we ever bump into you and you crew how do we recognise you? Do you have tentacles, pseudo-pods, claws, sucking, slithering feet? We should know so we can pick you out from amongst all the other beings with tenatcles etc.

  320. PJ hails from planet ID-10-T
    (old but still funny)
    Well I’m off to snarfel the Guntack

  321. HAARP. What’s the problem there then? Atmospheric research. Any heating caused by the apparatus isn’t too big or in fact very big. Consider the amount of heat energy hitting the ionosphere following a Coronal Mass Ejection or during normal solar activity.

  322. I see that my requests for comment on the answers I’ve supplied of the pyramid dates etc have gone unanswered. Difficult to refute the truth isn’t it boyos?

  323. AMIT. You should try some aloe vera to cure your intellectual rigidity. Cheap shot but what the hell.

  324. good morning, dear friends–paul, like it or not, you are all-inclusive!!!

    paul, i am truly sorry you feel like we are a bunch of cockroaches who have taken over and infested your thread…i mean no disrespect, but this “ravening horde” has become a force to be reckoned with…

    what one does not think of, another one will…and we support each other unconditionally…irregardless of the paths we choose to take…thoughts about a certain subject do not necessarily dictate opinion…they are ideas and understandings–sometimes misunderstandings–WITH THE HOPES OF BROADENING OUR OPINIONS…
    intent and perception play a huge role here…

    i, for one, have truly enjoyed the bantering that has taken place here…it even provided a couple really good “belly laughs” for me–and God only knows a good sense of humor is almost a prerequisite for survival…sometimes–especially me–we are very child-like in our pursuits… and i find that very refreshing…our curiosity and inquisitive natures should not be tainted by boundaries…

    JAT–i know where there is a unicorn ranch…it is in the disenchanted forest about an hour northeast of phoenix…i will zap you the coordinates–i will recognize you by your spirit…

    i do have some thoughts about project blue beam and others mentioned over the past day or so, but i will save them for another day…

    unconditional love and best wishes to you all…
    becky

  325. another afterthought–please forgive me…though we may not see eye-to-eye with paul, and though it may be difficult to do–it may not be such a bad idea to embrace him, and those who think like him…it MAY serve a GREATER purpose, for us all, a little further down the line…

    sorry–just thinking out loud…

  326. Dear Raven Turcotte,
    I’ve been observing earthquakes and the movement of the tectonic plates daily, for years. The plates move pretty much like the bones in our skulls, which do so regulary, but when the movement is not synchronised, that is to say one bone is slightly displaced say due to an injury, it can result in headaches etc. until the bone is realigned to its correct relationship visa vie the other bones.

    Pressure certainly is building, but we can only hope (and possibly predict seismic events), that the rate at which this is happening does not increase too drastically nor suddenly.
    Leah

  327. Dear Paul,
    Let me save you a little typing time, and I say this with respect. I do not need sorting out in any way, at an amateur level or otherwise.
    I have a self imposed rule, that if I want to truly know anything, I do the diligence, using all sources without preference, and from all Eras. The more facts and perspectives the better. What I don’t do is take isolated opinions, or facts as being the final and definitive truth.
    We have 2 things in common already, Wales and Cats. In order for me to better understand the precise area / areas we might discuss, please advise me, but only to the extent that does NOT compromise your position and workplace….etc

    Visa vie Coordinates, to determine when, by where we are in space. With a Galactic orbit of approx 225 million years, how can we be certain that the speed at which our Solar System orbits the centre of the Milky Way, remains constant throughout the entire 225 million year duration ?
    Further how can we be certain that nothing has influenced our orbit, causing a decrease or increase of speed, during just say the last one million years ?
    Leah

  328. Leah, I’m a Welshman NOT English and English isn’t my first language. I also speak some German and a small bit of French. When I go abroad I most certainly do not shout and hector the inhabitants of the country I’m visiting. As for the Britsih empire well I’m rather glad it’s gone really.
    The ravening horde I mentioned isn’t a force to be reckoned with at all. I just wonder why they need to be on this site at all. Surely they have their own where they can twitter to each other and reinforce their beliefs.

  329. Rico. I started out trying not to to deride individuals just their unsubstantiated beliefs. However once the ranting started it became quite obvious that at least four of you don’t seem to want to accept science even with it’s failings and have opted for the unknown. Exploring the unknown IS how we move forward for sure but embracing myths and legends as substance is a very dangerous path to tread.

  330. Howver. Let’s pause from the back-biting and name calling for a moment, though I’m happy to return to it, and consider the original article. There will be a geo-mag pole reversal though not in 2012. There is no connection with the end of the Mayan calendar. So far so good. Now can the, ahem, doubters say why they believe it will happen then and why a catastrophe will occur in words that even I can understand. Not a big ask really.

  331. Leah. Yes the Great Attractor, the Great Wall and the rest are astronomical ojects and worthy of discussion on a site such as this. You are most definitely correct in saying that objects similar to those in the Messier catalogue have been and are being discovered. However they are not added to his catalogue. They are included in the New General Catalogue [NGC] that dates from the late 19th century, the IC catalogue, the ARP named after Halton Arp a famous American astronomer. I’m not quite sure but I imagine that as Messier’s was the first catalogue of it’s kind it’s become almost sacrocanct and stands as it is. I think the first stellar catalogue was devised by Hipparchos who gave the stars their magnitudes around 2000 years ago. Then John Flamsteed in the 17th century as the first Astronomer Royal numbered stars in the constellations that hadn’t been given names in antiquity mainly because they had been too faint too see.

  332. Becky. I have never refered to the people here as cockroaches and certainly don’t consider any of them to be. I just think they’re poor benighted people frightened of the light brought by science because it is rational and sheds the cold light of reality on their ridiculous beliefs e.g. aliens building the pyramids an dgiving the Nazis advanced knowledge during the second world war. As I asked at the time, ‘What was it?’. And it didn’t help them at all did it so it couldn’t have been much good or very advanced.

  333. Determining where you are in space can be done by refering to solar system coordinates and galactic ones. I think as clock is necessary when finding out your position in what is called Right Ascension which is the space equivalent of longitude. Again any book on astronomy or a good online source will sort you out. By all means bring up the subjects on your list. Some things I feel confident in discussing others not so. But if I don’t know I’ll say so before commenting and not try to baffle you with the scrapings from my cat’s litter tray.
    Over and out for now as it’s home time.

  334. Dear Raven Turcotte,

    Might I enquire re your field / fields. Oceanography, Seismology, Geology, Tectonics…..
    Leah

  335. Dear Just a Thought,

    He tought me well in such down to earth matters. Shame he’s not around anymore. However, I don’t miss what I can’t have….pointless. I miss what I have while I have it……as in really appreciate.
    Thanks for your thought.
    Leah

  336. Carbon dating has already beeb proven inaccurate. The Pyramids actual date of construction is in controversy.

    The Greeks were not the real ancients as their knowledge also came from Sumer. This is all fact.

    Science went through many languages until the Sumerian cunieform language was found to have no “loan words” therefore making it the first known written language.

    Get it together Paul.

    -R-

  337. One that studies sub-atomic physics, is an astronomist / cosmologist, who is studying a smaller and faster level / dimension of the cosmos / universe.

  338. Paul just so you know. The first schools, the first laws, the first wheel, the first doctors, the first surgery, the first, agriculture, the first wheat, the first barley, the first grapes, the first metal forging. I could go on and on on this. All came fom Sumer.

    The first civilization came from sumer. This rather puts a crimp in the science theory of evolution.

    If the evolution theory were valid then should’nt have some of these discoveries occured simultaneously or almost simultaneously in other parts of the world?

    Its not a question Paul, don’t bother trying to answer. Just pointing something out.

    Some people apply Ockham’s razor when researching. Had this been done when studying the REAL ancient tablets that were discovered in the region. (30,000 tablets at Nineveh alone). Then we would be further studying ancient astronauts. Because using Ockham’s razor we simply would have looked at what the actual scribes of the times had to say as to how they acquired such advanced knowledge. This is the simplest way to do things.

    But no, they sent a bunch of Paul Eaton-Joness’ out there and because they couldn’t accept the obvious. They created “myths”.

    Notice Paul that the real myth creator is science? Again, don’t answer. The question is purely rhetorical.

    Quantum technogy will probably help man reach the stars. Quantum technolgy isn’t something new. Its just that man is just begining to understand this. You say that there are alien civilizations out there which is obvious. What makes you think that their civilization isn’t so much older than ours and that they’ve already mastered quantum technology long ago?

    Why is that impossible?

    You believe in other things that you cannot see. You accept them as fact. I’m sure you belive in Neutrinos yet you can’t see them.

    The fact that we can offer nothing that you would consider proof at this time does not mean it isn’t fact Paul.

    What would be the purpose of this blog at all? You can answer the question put to the blog can’t you Paul? What is there to discuss?

    If you go look again at the intiation of this blog you will find that 2012 is mentioned as well as planet x and other unaccepted theories. So this site has a broader more complex basis than you are giving it credit for.

    I don’t know of one farmer today that has erected stones on his farm to tell him when the winter soltice is or any farmer that watches the stars to determine anything about his crops. Yet science has said that this was the reason that these structures were erected.

    Give me a break.

    What I’m trying to convey is that science is not perfect. In fact when looking at science and mankind in the grand scheme of things. Its rather young.

    I don’t care what anyones opinion is, just like no one really cares what mine is.

    I’m saying right here and now that some beings whose origins were not of this earth gave men the knowledge to built and erect the structures that we found left behind all over the world. Furthermore. they gave the ancient peoples of mesoamerica the knowledge to measure time and the knowledge of the stars. The maya calendar was made in accordance with this provided knowledge and so we have a calendar thats more like a timer, a clock thats ticking if you will.

    Thats my story and I’m sticking to it.
    You can quote all the Sagan, Aubrey crap you want. I’ll stick with Sitchin, Bramley and the likes.

    You can call me any names you want and you can categorize me as any species of lunatic. I don’t care. I’m 49 years old and being raised in the bronx I’ve been called worse.

    I expect to still be around on 2012 so I’ll wait and see what happens. If nothing happens so be it. If something does happen then we’ll see what it is.

    Whatever.

    Patient,

    -Rico-

  339. Dear Just a Thought,

    Think me petty, or dumb, but who are those who do not want to be distracted from the truth. If I don’t ask someone will….so I’ll do it.
    Be well as always,
    Leah

  340. By the way, some of the stones at Baalbek referred to as “just stones” by Paul weigh as much as 2000 tons.

    Now I don’t know how you reconcile this but today. As of November 12th, 2008, we have no machinery capable of moving these “just stones”. They were moved to their present location from some quarry 6 miles away and RAISED to be used as a kind of base stones for this huge complex.

    Don’t get me wrong. But if todays science can’t duplicate this feat then it’s time it moved aside and let someone with understanding of what went on in those days take a crack at it don’t you think?

    I’m not saying that aliens or giants or sorcery was used to accomplish this feat. Others have said it long before we were even born and science has no answer.

    The answer Paul provides is this “levers and ramps ‘ol boy”. Now paul you stand by yourself on this theory because science doesn’t back you.

    See how we all make up crap to justify our beliefs?

    2000 tons, one stone, no explanation of this literally IMPOSSIBLE feat.

    Hmmmmm, makes you wonder don’t it?

    Here, take another look:

    http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/esp_baalbek_1.htm

    See the size of the man standing by these stones. Imagine how this was moved 6 miles in one piece and then raised to a platform as you can see in the picture.

    Paul likes to use derisve words and putdowns due to the fact that he nor the science he so fervently defends can offer a valid explanation and the fact that scientific theories have been exhausted as impossible.

    Truly amazing.

    There are wonders in this world that cannot be explained until such time as we accept what true ancient man has left us as an explanation.

    I will continue to post my opinion that the 2012 date is in fact the end of a 5122 or so year time calculator that counts down to an end time and a new begining.

    I think its arrogant for some people to think that man is the ultimate technological authority in this part of the universe and to think that because we don’t have the technology to travel the stars that there aren’t others that have accomplished this before man was even thinking about cooking his food.

    Arrogance to think that man is the ultimate intelligence in this part of the universe. Arrogance to think we already have all the answers when its manifestly obvious that we don’t.

    We don’t even know how or why our ancestors moved such huge stones to erect the most spectacular buildngs and cities that
    the world has ever seen to date.

    I haven’t even gotten to the part of the MISSING piece stones that were located in slots inside the pyramid and were removed prior to their discovery by modern man.

    No explanations at all.

    How dare anyone have the arrogance to offer an explanation bypassing the explanation that the builders themselves offered?

    Bear in mind that growing up science taught us that the Pyramids were pharoic tombs?

    What a laugh that turned out to be huh? And we still have some that actually put a date on these structures and believe that the deate is irrefutable evidence. Carbon dating. Again, what a laugh.

    We have some very intelligent people in our time. We even have Paul here whos is so smart he considers people like me an idiot because of what I discerned to be true in the absence of any valid explanation.

    Its like saying, “I don’t know what happened but because I don’t believe aliens have visited us you are just stupid”. This is what Paul says.

    You’re smart Paul, but you don’t know it all.

    Furthermore due to your lack of imagination, discernment, and chosen data imput, you are extremely limited. I may as well be debating a school book.

    Levers and ramps ‘ol boy, levers and ramps.

    You should send that theory to some science review to see if they publish it. Science has not put forth that theory.

    Unreal. There is a saying. There are none so blind as those that will not see.

    Open your eyes ‘ol boy. This world is bigger and stranger than you’ve been led to believe.

    -R-

  341. This si a copy and paste from the Baalbek site I keep referring you to:

    Our own science and engineering today cannot explain them, let alone what their function was. It would seem some unknown culture could move these great stones, place them on top of others, in perfect fit and alignment, before the dawn of our most ancient cultures.

    What caused them to pass away without leaving a clue as to who they were and to what purpose they built such a stupefying platform?

    Thats what science says today about Baalbek.

    But Paul says it was “levers and ramps” right Paul?

    Give us a link or rerfer us to a publication that backs your levers and ramps answer.

    Talk about ranting!!

    The only difference I see is that you add derisive remarks to your rantings.

    You need to read the Bible. Its a REAL history book.

    -R-

  342. Dear Just a Thought,
    Forgive me, I must have been a lawyer in another life. One word, for me changes the meaning of content. One word is enough to make or break a contract…is it not.
    I’ll go to sleep, perchance to dream.
    Be well, Leah

  343. I must say, I am very surprised at the discussions going on at this thread.
    I was hopeing to find like minded individuals, that can conclude or discreidit.
    This is about pole-reversal or shifting..right?
    Anyway, Thecrust under the ocean is called the oceanic crust,it is much thinner than the continental crust.
    It is only about 5 km thick while continental crust can be up to 65 km thick. Also, the two types of crust are not made of the same materials. Oceanic crust is made of a denser collection of minerals than continental crust. the reason I bring this up is not only for backdrop but to explain.
    how, ever since the tsunami greater understanding of the ocean floor and the discoveries of features like mid-oceanic ridges, geomagnetic anomalies parallel to the mid-oceanic ridges, and the association of island arcs and oceanic trenches are occurring together and near the continental margins, suggesting convection might indeed be at work. I may be getting ahead of myself.
    The hot asthenosphere of the Earth finds a weak place in the lithosphere to rise buoyantly as a plume, or hotspot. This asthenosphere is like liquid rock forever shifting. Hot asthenospheric mantle rises to the surface and spreads laterally, transporting oceans and continents as on a slow conveyor belt. This is happening at an accelerated rate. Greenland has cracked in half and they blame this on global warming. HA! The following plates Antarctic, Indian, Juan de Fuza, North American & Caribbean have all shifted in the last year & a half.
    This link..http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsww/ will let you see how many earthquakes have appeared over the last weak. A major earthquake will trigger a pole reversal but my friends and I believe it will occur before 2012.
    So all that being said and done. I would like to add my 2cents to this debate with Paul. I am a 36yr old scientist who frimly believes in the one true creator. I do not give this being a name nor do I worship and pray to any entity. So for someone with as agreat a mind as paul must have, leaving out that which cannot be explained, lets you use less than 10% than the rest of us. You cannot dismiss God just because you have no proof. The Greeks left a temple built to the unknown god, so even they knew not to discount that which “you” do not know.

    Yours Sincerely
    Raven Turcotte

  344. My man Raven!! A true blue scientist!!

    Thank you for your input Sir. You are a scolar and a gentleman.

    Earthquakes, Polar shifts, meteors, asteroids, tsunamis, floods, volcanos.

    So many things can go wrong.
    I’ve read that scientist are under the impression that the earth is overdue a catastrophic event on the scale of the one that took out the dinosaurs.

    Maybe Mr. Turcotte can enlighten us on this subject.

    Now we also know that this planet didn’t start 4 or 5 thousand years ago. Its millions of years old. I dare say that time and the odds are in favor of an ancient astronaut or fallen god theory on this earth PRIOR to Homo Sapien sapiens arrival wouldn’t you?

    I mean, isn’t it science that says if you put, I don’t know how many monkeys together to type or write and give them unlimited time they will eventually write sheakespear or somthing to that effect?

    I don’t just believe like Paul that there are intelligent beings on other far away planets. I believe that we as earthlings are relatively young in existance scientifically speaking of course.

    I believe that given the odds we that we obviously have, more attention should be given the subject of ancient astronauts.

    Being as how humanity as we know it has only been around like less than a week in world time terms. It would be a good guess that there are beings that are of a MUCH MUCH older existance that have mastered quantum technology and technologies that we aren’t even aware of yet as to even name them, and that these beings visited earth before man became homo sapien sapien.

    How’s 432,000 years sound?

    The odds are that this happened. Not the other way around.

    Just basing the theory on a scientific guess using the amount of years that this planet has been here and taking all into account.

    It favors alien visitation.

    Not only do the odds favor alien visitation but this will also explain the origin of religion and the origin of God or gods as it may be.

    IT WAS LEFT TO US LITERALLY WRITTEN IN STONE !!!!!!!!!!!!

    I mean really. How much more plain do you want it?

    Haven’t you ever heard the syaing is it written in stone? What the hell did you think that meant?

    It just does not get any more real than that.

    Now, its like Leah said. There is no such thing as time. Its just the movement of the stars and such. So this calendar is based on where the stars will be at such and such time. It would stand to reason that it ends where it does because the stars wouldn’t be where they could have charted and therefore an end of an age. After it all settles down again. We can then start charting again.

    I don’t know whats going to happen, but it won’t involve a geomagnetic reversal.

    Paul you realize of course that should this blog not incude this group it would be boring as hell right?

    -R-

  345. The first guy to post on this thread had it correct. I should have left it at that.

    Paul, I’m really eager to see how you answer our new scientist friend Raven Turcotte, Should I call him Dr. or Prof.?

    A a scientist and a believer in a supreme being he seems to have some understanding of both sides of the coin.
    based on what hes observe so fa he suggest that you’re missing about 95% imput in order to have better wisdom and understanding.

    Hmmmmmmmmmm, What do you say to that?

    Eager Beaver,

    -Rico-

  346. Becky,
    I love the humor, thank you!
    Leah,
    Well said, exchange of ideas.
    Amit,
    Hope you’re not getting too much of this “barncarpet” on you.
    R-man,
    Some people just know what they know and don’t want to know no more.
    Raven Turcotte,
    as Leah said the crust is indeed in motion.
    P J,
    In a previous post said “just when you think it is safe to poke your head out…”,
    you would have been better saying “just when you think it is safe to Pull your head out”. Really! If you are not to self improtant tell me who you imagine me to be or, where you formed your thought of how well you THINK you know me. Please.

    HUMANS!

  347. Why, thank you for your responses. Leah, you sound like you have a handle on the plates. Yes, a major headache is the best way to discribe it.
    I fear we are not going to be able to give the planet the “asprin” it needs & we are gonna have to ride out the migrain to come.
    Ricco, I am alittle skeptical of ancient astronaut or fallen god theory. I am enclined believe in visitation from more advanced lifeforms, but I have to wonder if there is not some universal law, that prehaps we don’t know about.
    But, a mandate that would preclude tampering with our development. I just don’t understand why they would talk to ancient man & not us.
    The Annunaki were said to want to mine gold from our planet. Which would explain why they would come, but not why they would leave.
    Also the Draconians are suppose to live under our earth as we speak. They feed off our kids and provide Goverments with weapons & knowledge. This gets into a grey area for me, sometimes it’s just better to listen and learn.
    All of which is a moot point if the earth reverses its poles. If there are beings out there who wish to present themselves as Gods, Saviors or masters.
    Then they are proberly waiting for 2012 to come, so they can swoop down and for fill their calling. If they help us rebuild our civiliations after a catastrophe, even skeptics like Paul will be asking for our info on the subject.
    By the way not that I was offended but it’s
    Mrs. Raven Turcotte.
    See you all later

  348. Leah,
    To try to convey as well as you have is beyond my grasp but I know how I feel and you put to words what I know with all my heart. (personal journey)

  349. On Blue Beam,
    “As for the question of why: For one thing, if you terrify the public and make them fear for their safety, they will allow you to implement draconian law enforcement practice, disarm them and keep extensive records on them, and they only have to tell you that it is all to protect you, of course.”
    There are those who do not want to be distracted by the truth.

  350. Sorry, I said distracted by the truth
    you said distracted from the truth.
    Andre would be one I consider who did not want to be distracted BY the truth.
    I would consider myself as one who don’t wish to be distracted FROM the truth.
    (told you the ability to convey as well as you was beyond my grasp)

  351. Yes.
    I try almost every link posted by us just feel unable to make a worthy comment on most.

  352. Hey Friends!!!!

    Your Lunatic, Ravening friend is back…….

    Dear Raven, liked what you posted. Welcome to the thread. we look forward to more from you…

    Just picking up a paragraph from your post —

    “I am a 36yr old scientist who frimly believes in the one true creator. I do not give this being a name nor do I worship and pray to any entity.”

    Well, i couldn’t agree more…. Its like my version of the “True Source”

    Adorote Devote Latens Deitas

  353. Dear Rico,

    Just to add to your points about Baalbek..
    I am working in one of the world’s biggest Engineering & Construction Company. And i have asked many experienced engineers about it.. When i asked one of them if there is any way to move a 2000 Tonne Stone through Levers and Planks? He almost went down rolling on the floor laughing! And i evicted a similar response from most of the others….

  354. OK, Enough of fun…… Time to get back to some serious stuff lest my friends think that PJ has affected m so much that i have gone crazy!!!
    Dont worry, i am way above all such Barn Capet! Just enjoying some harmless banter!

    OK, Ancient Astronauts.. Have a look…
    This is about the depiction of Spacecrafts in Ancient History…

    http://www.sanandaseagles.com/pages/spacecraft_in_art.html

    I dont know if all those Artists were bitten by the UFO Bug at different times!! Maybe there was no Paul Eaton Jones to tell them that Extraterrestrial Visitation cannot be possible!
    Poor folks, to be so disillusioned as to use their “imagination” to paint UFOs!!!!

  355. Raven, I agree that something will occur prior to 2012. I’ve been saying that for a while now.
    2012 will just be the culmination of this event.

    As you mentioned in an earlier post I was aware of 3 eathquakes in the last two weeks, one was right here in the northern waters of Puerto Rico and the other two were prior to that but they were in like two of those asian countries I can’t remember which and being as how there wasn’t much collateral damage I didn’t pay much attention.

    I know that to someone like Paul I sound like a raving maniac. I know this and I feel like some character in a movie thats witnessed a UFO and no one will believe him. Its how I feel. I tend to lend credence to my feelings. I also feel that there is something afoot. That something is going to happen soon. I’ve spoken to others about this and some people tell me they feel something to. Its like an expectation or something. Its like I’m just waiting for something, really weird and I know, really silly.

    Anyway, its how I feel.

    -R-

  356. Paul, looks like you doubt the possession of advanced technology by the Nazis during WW2.. Well, let me enlighten you about “Die Glocke”

    “The Bell” (German: Die Glocke) represented something at the very pinnacle of SS General’s Hans Kammler’s occult and super-secret SS “wonder weapons” empire. Nick Cook’s book, “Hunt for Zero Point” represents the only publicly accessible information on this bizarre object in the English language, the equally macabre experimentation that surrounded it, and the stringent security the SS held it under. The following are the salient features of The Bell, according to information Cook received from both German and Czech sources:

    (1) The Bell was reportedly a metallic object, approximately 9 ft. in diameter and 12-15 ft. tall;

    (2) It looked like a “Bell”, hence its codename to the Germans, die Glocke;

    (3) It was comprised of two counter-rotating cylinders, rotating a purplish liquid-metallic looking substance code-named “Xerum 525” by the Germans, at high speeds;

    (4) “Xerum 525” was apparently highly radioactive, being purple in color, and housed in cylinders with lead lining 3 cm (12 in.) thick;

    (5) The Bell apparently required high amounts of electrical power in its operation;

    (6) During use, it could only be run for approximately one to two minutes, as it apparently gave off strong radiation and/or other electromagnetic or unknown field effects;

    (a) Several scientist died on its first operation;

    (b) Subsequent tests included various plants and animals, all of which decomposed into a blackish goo and without normal putrefaction, within a matter of a few minutes or hours after exposure to its field effects when in operation;

    (c) Technicians near the Bell during these experiments reported metallic tastes in their mouths after being exposed to it;

    (d) The chamber in which the Bell was tested was lined with ceramic bricks and rubber mats, and had to have its rubber matting removed and burned after each test, and it was subsequently washed down with brine by inmates from nearby concentration camps;

    (7) All the scientists and witnesses who saw or worked on the Bell were murdered by the SS as the war neared its end;

    8) The Bell was transplanted out of Silesia to a destination that has never been discovered. The Bell, along with General Kammler himself, simply disappear entirely from history, never to be seen again. It is believed, however, that both the Bell and General Kammler were transported by U-boat to a base outside of the Reich (Base 211 in Neu Schwabenland, Antarctica being the strongest choice being the strongest candidate). Others suggest Norway where German troops still held that territory.

    (9) A strange “henge” like structure was constructed by the Germans out of reinforced concrete near the facility where the Bell was located and tested. This structure resembled a test rig for the possible test of extremely powerful propulsion devices.

    In charge of the Special Evacuation unit’s “northern route” cell was a very high-ranking SS general named Jakob Sporrenberg, who was captured by the British and handed over to the Poles. During interrogations, he let out his knowledge regarding some mysterious high-tech machine called “Die Glocke” – ‘the Bell’.
    Following his capture, as much as Sporrenberg was able to divulge to Soviet intelligence and the Polish courts about the Bell was this, Witkowski said.
    The project had gone under two code names: “Laternenträger” and “Chronos” and always involved “Die Glocke” – the bell-shaped object that had glowed when under test. The Bell itself was made out of a hard, heavy metal and was filled with a mercury-like substance, violet in color… The experiments always took place under a thick ceramic cover and involved the rapid spinning of two cylinders in opposite directions.
    The tests involved placing various plants and animals within the Bell’s influence. Almost all of them were destroyed: “A crystalline substance formed within the tissues, destroying them from the inside; liquids, including blood, gelled and separated into clearly distilled fractions.” People in the program also suffered from “sleep problems, loss of memory and balance, muscle spasms and a permanent unpleasant taste in the mouth.” Many of the scientists even died as a result of their exposure to the activated Bell.
    According to Sporrenberg, this enigmatic ‘Bell’ was evacuated by the Special Evacuation Kommando before the enemy forces arrived.
    So, what the hell was this ‘Bell’ that was so important?
    According to Sporrenberg, it was associated with “vortex compression” and “magnetic fields separation,” and a related source suggested that the Bell had something to do with “spin polarization” and “spin resonance.” These were, Witkowski pointed out to Cook, “physical principles that had come to be associated with the new wave of gravity and antigravity pioneers – people like Dr. Evgeny Podkletnov.”
    Could this be it? Was the ‘Bell’ an antigravity device? Could this be what Kammler and others used to make a deal with the United States? If the ‘Bell’ really was an operational antigravity machine, it would have certainly been spectacular enough to effectively seduce the victors of the war.

  357. Now coming to geomagnetic Reversal.
    Scientists know that reversals have occurred many times in the past. The direction of magnetic grains laid down successively in the Earth’s crust, particularly the sea floor are a primary piece of evidence. When the rock is new and molten the grains are free to align themselves with the prevailing magnetic field. As the rock cools, the grains are frozen in time. As the sea floor expands outward (in the Atlantic), it is regularly striped with rock oriented in different directions. This indicates that the magnetic poles have reversed many times throughout the Earth’s history
    Currently the magnetic field is experiencing a period of weakening. This may be a precursor to a reversal (and we are overdue for one)…
    Losing its protective magnetic envelope, the atmosphere would expand and become thinner, possibly leading to altitude sickness near sea level. No longer filtered out, deadly cosmic rays would kill most if, not all, living creatures on the surface. Only those living in deep caves would be safe. This scenario has prompted some to build underground bunkers in hopes of surviving.

  358. Yo amit my man. I’m going to bed dawgz.

    I catch up wit u guys tomorow. we all in different time zones so while most people are working I’m just starting my day.

    I’m one hour ahead of EST. Imagine how east I am.

    Rest up peoplez,

    -R-

  359. Oh, Hello everyone. Seems to be quite a bite of hostility towards P.P. (poor paul). We should all act towards each other, as we are ourselves would like to be treated.
    Amit, your on track but, thats not all thats effecting the magnetic feild. Anyone who has used a compass knows that magnetic north and geographic north do not exactly line up.
    That’s because Earth’s magnetic dipole is tilted by about 11.5 degrees from its rotational axis and shifted slightly off-center.The Mayans new this was gonna happen, They somehow calculated for this.
    Excuse me if at times I seem aloof, just a lot of thoughts so little time. At the north magnetic pole, the field is stronger, effectively keeping the inner proton belt farther away; at the south magnetic pole, the field is weaker, allowing the proton belt to come closer to the planet’s surface.
    A kinda streching motion, i’m sure most of are aware the earth is oval not round. Most of the proton belt is about 1200–1300 kilometers high, but it dips down as low as 200–300 kilometers off the lower coast of Brazil, creating a phenomenon known as the South Atlantic Anomaly.
    It caused the fogging of the detector windows of some of the OGO satellites and resulted in the compromising of OAO 2 data. The charged particles in the zone can also build up static charges on satellites.
    At certain altitudes, the South Atlantic Anomaly is bigger than Brazil itself.
    It is getting bigger than that by the day. There are several geologic clues to ancient climate which in turn can tell us about continental placement on the globe.
    Deposition of glacial sediments is one that is very useful in indicating cold climates and therefore possible pole positions. The specific things to look for are glacial scratches, varves, and tillites.
    Okay now i’m getting off track and have to get back to work I live In Australia where is everyone else from? WBL

    Yours Sincerely
    Raven Turcotte

  360. Thanks for the info Raven… We are all from different corners of the world. Guess there was no one from Australia earlier,and now you fill that place very well. I am from India…
    About Paul, well…. You need to go up and see who started this. And some where in between, i tried for truce as well. But he is so intent on name-calling and using derisive words against us! But dont think that we are serious at all, dont go by what Paul thinks of us… We are all having good fun. Earlier we used to get affected by such people and started serious deates.
    Now we are used to it.. We have had more than our fair share of being called Lunatic, Rapacious, Depraved etc etc……
    Leah is the angel amongst us. While the rest of us believe in a bit of Tit for Tat, she never gets bothered by this stuff and always maintains her dignity. Would take me a lot of time to reach that level!

  361. Alas I will not get A chance to respond today. I only can use the computer at work as for my credentials attended Charles Sturt University. I work for CSIRO, I specialize in atmospheric disturbances with N.A.S.A and other private companies & I live in Brisbane.
    Any other questions i’ll answer tomorrow.

    Yours Sincerely
    RavenTurcotte

  362. About the South Atlantic Anomaly, it has worse effects than just static charge and fogging.It degrades satellite components, particularly semiconductor and optical devices.It induces background noise in detectors.It induces errors in digital circuits.
    It is also threat to the astronauts.
    The anomalous belt contains heavy nuclei (mainly oxygen, but also nitrogen and helium, and very little carbon) with energies below 50 MeV/nuc. The source of these particles are the so called “anomalous cosmic rays” of interstellar origin.
    ACR reaching the South Pole indicates the hazards of the weakening Magnetic Field, and everyone knows that SAA is increasing in size gradually, who knows what proportions it might reach!

  363. Geologists and scientist have managed to identify the causes of the ice ages by observing the geological processes of the earth and connecting them all together. From the early 1800’s with Louis Agassiz and James Croll in the latter part that century to Milutin Milankovitch in the 1940’s, scientists have built on one another’s theory about the causes of the ice ages and their evidence to support it. As technology increased they discovered more about the way the earth’s processes worked and linked them all together to better understand the causes of the ice ages. Yes, the study of varves, tillites and glacial scratches is important indeed…

  364. Amit,
    why do you think Einstein and a group of scientist fled to the US, because they were working on the atomic bomb and feared that it will fall into the hands of hitler!
    So you say the scientists like Werner von Braun, Einstein, Heissenberg, Oppenheimer and and and were all taught by aliens?
    That is certainly the crap of craps I have ever read. Read the biographies of these great Physicists and come back to common sense!

  365. actually I am from Germany, but live now in Thailand for more than 13 years.
    Rico, the things you accredit to the Sumerians, it seems you take anything to fit your idea aboul aliens. Writings discovered before in China, most probably the oldest so far, then Mesoamerica. Do same reading before you state something as fact.
    You just display the typical western conceit of first world countries and Asia India, Africa china as 2nd world? China has one of the longest uninterrupted histories of this planet.

  366. I just wonder how in 5000 years some of you would speculate about the bunkers build by the nazis in ww2
    Suerly Aliens must have come to our planet and build them. And the small windows were there to compute the movements of the stars?

  367. Sorry but I just do not believe anything. I cannot see a point in believing something nor do I see a point in disbelieving something.
    I do submit to logic and common sense. Aliens visiting us? Maybe. But we certainly in this case with their such advanced technolgy make them look very stupid!!
    Don’t you think they were clever enough to tell us the reason of their visit, their location of their homeplanet? Or do we really beliefe they are so stupid by passing on the knowledge of their existence to farmers and shepherds? This, according to their advanced technology that can travel through space, would just make no sense at all. If it were us, we surely put some information on material, that doesn’t vanish that easily, gold, platinum or even more durable, and would engrave our knowledge on these tablets. Then we would place these tablets in just one location? Or wouldn’t we put them in different places on the earth, especially mountains that will last for some times.
    Just because you do not really understand how and why then you create these aliens and defend your idea fighting anybody who does not believe?
    Sorry but all this Alien… just does not make any sense. It is simply not logical.
    So I do agree with Raven, just harvesting gold and then leaving our planet without trace and not coming back just makes no sense.
    Have a good day

  368. Martin,

    My memory seems to be failing me… Because i do not remember saying that these scientists were taught by Aliens!! And as a matter of fact , apart from Einstein, i haven’t even mentioned these scientists ever…
    Get your facts right before jumping to such mindless conclusions….

  369. Martin,

    Before opposing something so viciously, one must take care to acquire at least an iota of knowledge about the subject being contested.. And your knowledge here is so pathetic that its ridiculous….
    It would be an utter waste of time to discuss these things with you.
    You ask why would Aliens show their presence to Shepherds and farmers, i say they are the ones who created all the shpeherd and farmers!
    You ask why would they place the tab;ets in one place? Now thats so absurd, who says that the Anunnaki prepared the tablets?? They were prepared by the Sumerians…
    You blame us for creating Alien myths because we dont know who or why!! Well, you seem to have a fair idea then, please tell us what you believe, and on what ground…
    Even the Scientists you follow have followed up on the work of the Scientists preceding them, and so on.. They all have relied on History at some point of time.. You cannot refute the authenticity of Ancient Texts altogether!
    You seem so fond of Chinese History yourself, but what do you have to prove it? Nothing other than ancient literature i believe… So, if based on this literature, you can bang your drum about China, what reason is there to not believe in the Sumerian Texts??

  370. Martin, look what i was abe to dig out for you. Read carefully, it is your “Chinese Histiory” which documents “Alien Contact” in 3 different instances…

    1. According to a report on China Economic Net, a story in the book entitled “In Search of the Supernatural” [1] by Gan Bao of the East Jin Dynasty (317 AD – 420 AD) tells of contact with Martians.
    In the Wu Kingdom during the Three Kingdoms Period [2] (222 AD – 280 AD), the ancients wrote of child possessing a strange appearance appearing among a group of playing children. He was 1.3 meters tall, dressed in blue and had shining eyes.
    The other children had never seen this newcomer before, so they surrounded him to ask questions. “I am not from the earth, but from the Mars,” said the child dressed in blue, “I saw that you are playing so happily so I came down to see you.”
    “The state of having three kingdoms standing will not last long,” the child continued. “In the future, the world will belong to the Sima family.” The Earth children were scared by this news, and one quickly ran to fetch the adults. When the adults rushed over, the Martian child bid the goodbye and immediately shrank his body and jumped into the air.
    When people raised their heads to watch him, they could only see a white silk cloth dragging a long belt, flying rapidly towards the sky. Nobody dared to spread the bizarre event at the time.
    Four years later, the Shu Kingdom perished. Another 17 years later, the Wu Kingdom also perished. When the tangled warfare among the three kingdoms was over, the Sima family united China, just as the Martian child had predicted. Regardless of whether the above record is true, it points to the possibility of ancient with aliens.

    2 According to “Researching Lost Records” written by Wang Jia during the East Jin Dynasty , during the time of Emperor Yao four thousand years ago, a huge boat-shaped UFO floated in the air above the West Sea . The UFO drifted slowly and had many lights. People aboard the UFO were seen wearing hats, and had white feathers growing all over their bodies. They had no wings but could fly. “Annals on the Five-Elements” written of the Qing Dynasty, recorded another incident involving hunting an alien. The incident took place in March of the 12th year of Emperor Kangxi. Some people saw a black-faced man flying fast through the air. His body was flashing red lights, as if setting fire in the sky. When local officials heard the news and rushed over, the man suddenly disappeared.

    3 “The Chronicle of Disasters and Unusual Phenomena, Draft History of the Qing Dynasty” recorded an incident very similar to modern reports of alien abduction. On July of the third Year of Emperor Yongzheng during the Qing Dynasty, a group of villagers went into the mountains to cut bamboo in Liaojiatang of Wudu in Lingchuan. The group witnessed one villager suddenly disappear. More than 140 days later, he reappeared in his home. Fellow villagers reported that upon his return, the abducted villager was completely incoherent.

    Documents and historical records involving aliens not only reflect the magnificence of Chinese history and culture, but also add mystical color to the long-unsolved mystery of alien beings.

  371. More food for your thoughts martin.
    Early Chinese texts tell of long-lived rulers from the heavens who flew in “fire-breathing dragons”. In Tibet there is a book called the Kantyua, which means “the translated word of Buddha”. It tells of flying “pearls in the sky” and of transparent spheres carrying gods to visit man. Here to, the belief is of being reborn time and time again and not just to earth. The Royal Pedigrees of Tibetan Kings dates back to the seventh century. It states that the first seven Tibetan kings came from the stars, and goes on to say that they eventually returned to the stars.

  372. And if you’re still hungry…..

    The ancient Chinese records mention amazing, wise and humane (humane, not human-P.S.) beings, the” Sons of Heaven” Before the “Sons of Heaven” appeared on Earth, familiar celestial phenomena preceded all such appearances. A very ancient, pre-Buddhist religion of Tibet (“bon”) described how a mighty “Friend of virtue and kindness” had appeared on Earth
    Of all the “Sons of Heaven” it was Huang-ti who had left the “largest footprint” in the Chinese mythology. He first made his appearance in the Huang He River basin. Huang-ti was very different from other ancient heroes. He did not enlighten people, did not demand worship. Huang-ti and his helpers were amazingly rational beings. Of course, they did teach the natives all kinds of useful sciences, including the acupuncture. However, most important for them were their own affairs. And such affairs were dominated by the creation of complex, and alas, incomprehensible (at least, to us) apparatuses and contrivances.

  373. Modern man in his arrogance, has convinced himself that NO prior civilisations or generations of man could possibly have been as, or more technologically advanced, than he is now.
    The precise and exact attitude of human youngsters, that KNOW it all, but with the passing of time, come to realise that the older generations know a thing or 10 as well.

  374. Everything we know today has been built upon the endeavours and knowlege aquired in the past, without which we would at best be cave men.
    Each generation passes on knowlege to the next….so the foundation of todays technological capabilities, lies in the past. E.g. Einstein =past, Nuclear power stations =recent times and present.

  375. Martin. If you’re going to stay and debate you’ll have to put up with replies such as Amit has posted above. Always a small piece, usually out of context, chosen to back up their theories. Unfortunately whenever they post something of genuine scientific value worthy of discussion, and it does happen, it’s buried deep within the rantings. Amit or Rico put up something very interesting about the Fibonaci Series, DNA splicing etc but it was among a load garbage regarding aliens or some such. Pity really. But try to stick with it. The more of people like you who engage the lunatic fringe the better then maybe we can push them off a science site and back underground with the Mole Men.

  376. I believe that the latest theories regarding the onset of the Pleistocene Ice Age was due to a number of factors including the collision between N&S America which diverted the flow of water that became the Gulf Steam. This body of warm water released huge amounts of water vapour into the air causing increased precipitation at the North Pole and northern Europe. This combined with rotational axial wobble [precession] and a probable variation in the orbit of the earth around the sun i.e. it became more elliptical and less circular, all added up to a lowering in global temperature by between 5-10 degrees Celsius.

  377. Dear Old Man PJ,

    Looks like your Great Grand Children have finally let you use the Computer…

    That was expected from you. Without reading what i said, without having any idea, you are so quick to discard everything.. But dont bother yourself, because your opinion is as worthy to me as the stuff which i flush down my toilet every morning…

    The thing i posted about Fibonacci Series and Spilicing does not contain a single shred of Alien Rant or whatever you insist to call that. It just signifies your close-mindedness that you are seeing even bare scientific facts as “gabage”.. I pity your state of mind and i pity your attitude even more!

    And whatever you may say, whichever pretext you might use to counter our claims, we will always find something to back our theories, in your own premises, just like i did with Martin’s Chinese

    Its you guys who need to give proofs, me and my friends ave already lined up more than you can digest. And all you can do is hide behind you “Science”, you keep ranting about Scientific Proofs, and you fail to produce any yourself! But when we talk in your language, you very conveniently choose to ignore it. How can a sane man try to argue with you?? Its only one way traffic from your side.

    Get any number of your kind here, and i’m sure we will always be more than match to you and your thick headed bunch of self proclaimed “Men of Science”!!

  378. Rico. I don’t for one minute disagree with your list about what the Suerians discovered – , schools, doctors, laws etc. It’s a matter of historical and archaeological fact. I’ve said previously that I hold them ion the highest regard and love the Sumerian/Assyrian section of the British Museum.
    BTW, evolution isn’t a theory of the development of civilisation as you seem to think. Centre of civilisation appear to occurred at a number of places around 5000BCE.

  379. R. Turcotte. You’ll find that many of your posts regarding geophysics will be seized upon by those who are looking for a catastrophe or series of events that tie in with 2012 and geo-mag shift etc. They can’t seem to understand the slow, very slow nature of geophysical processes such as those. They see links between volcanoes, earthquakes,tsunamis and the slow wandering of the poles, auroral lights etc. Then they stitch it altogether with alien technology, visitations and top it off with a conspiracy theory. So easy for them. Bugger scientific rigour. If it’s difficult and long then forget it they want an instant fix.

  380. PJ, i think you are quite wrong in your assumption about the Pleistocene Ice Age.
    Our knowledge about ice ages was not known worldwide until Louis Agassiz, a Swiss naturalist came up with a theory in 1837. He studied the characteristics of the surroundings of the Alpine Glaciers and found that there were large erratic boulders different from the surrounding rocks and too heavy to be transported by water. He also noticed that the bedrock had been polished, scratched and grooved which led him to the conclusion that a large part of Europe had been covered by ice in the past. The evidence of erratic boulders in places where they should not be, such as England, Scotland and Sweden, was due to the flowing ice sheets that carried these boulders far from their place of origin. The ice sheets carried away rock debris which is a mixture of large and small boulders, silts, sand and gravel. As the ice sheets moved, the rock debris scratched and polished the bedrock as the enormous weight of the glacier pushed against it. When the ice sheets retreated, the rock debris was deposited to form a moraine which is the unconsolidated glacial debris. After Agassiz published his theory, evidence for Ice ages appeared all over the world. Similar characteristics to the ones Agassiz found were discovered in North America, and many other countries in Europe which allowed geologist to map the extent of the glaciers. In their maximum extent, ice sheets covered a large part of Europe, North America, United Kingdom, Germany, Sweden, Norway and the whole of Canada and the north of the United States. Further observations in sedimentary deposits in lakes allowed geologists to confirm that there have been warmer and colder periods within the Ice Age. Glacial lakes contain a type of sediment called “varves”. The main feature of this sediment is that it contains a pattern of recurring, well separated layers. The varves contain a layer of with relatively coarse silty material and a layer of very fine grains. During the summer, the melted water flows through the glacier and carries part of the rock debris with it. The bigger grains sink to the bottom and the finest grains remain suspended. During winter when the lake is frozen, there is no supply for new sediments and the wind cannot move the water downstream. Therefore the fine particles slowly sink and remain on top of the coarser grained layer. When the transport melts, the ice sheets moved, the larger pebbles are dropped in amongst the fine grained sediments. The varves relate to the ice ages because the presence of relatively large stones and pebbles in the fine grained layer do not seem to fit into the composition of the layer. This indicates that the ice advanced and retreated several times and gives evidence to support glacial and interglacial periods.

  381. PJ, Dont be so hasty to count Raven in your Hopeless Bunch. We resepect her opinion because while stating her own views, she has not bashed ours’ , and neither does she has a tendency to use derisive words and degrading comments like you. She seems to be a much more open minded person than yourself. And even if we have to argue with her, it will be done in a very civil manner..
    Not everyone is like you, old man!

  382. The record of previous glacial activity is the best indicator for future ice ages. Scientists examine the evidence for the numerous 100,000-year glacial-interglacial cycles within the present ice age to attempt a forecast of future ice ages. Since all previous ice ages lasted tens of millions of years, our present ice age will likely continue for a considerable amount of time. Each glaciation begins slowly and may take 80,000 years or more to reach its maximum extent. A rapid melting of these expanded glaciers within just a few thousand years follows. Then the next glaciation begins to build, only 10,000 to 20,000 years after the maximum of the previous glaciation occurred.

    Evidence from both land and sea environments indicates that, at least prior to the human-induced global warming of the last two centuries, the worldwide climate has been cooling naturally for several thousand years. Ten thousand years have already passed since the end of the last glaciation, and 18,000 years have passed since the last maximum. This may indicate that Earth has entered the beginning of the next worldwide glaciation.

  383. Dear Paul,
    Correct me if I’m wrong but….you seem in agreement that our knowlege and understanding to date is due to, past data, time to postulate, sheer speculation, theorise, and develope technology from thought…..another description of imagination, and daydreaming. Even designing and testing of said imagined technology, as was Tesla’s methodology, and if you can guess, who else’s.

    I deliberately did not ask if your particular prefered field, is what you make a living from, as it is acedemic. It would seem that the answer to my earlier question, is ….Yes, one needs permission and to pay for a permit to THINK, and further, an even costlier permit to perform, SHEER SPECULATION, THEORISE, DEVELOPE TECHNOLOGY FROM THOUGHTS…….or to have an IMAGINATION AT ALL. Whats next, permit to be in posession of a BRAIN or MIND ? Maybe a permit for having EYES or EARS….oh thats right….a Birth Certificate….Permit to EXIST.

    With respect Sir, you may enquire from me, debate, and compare thoughts and notes with me…..but what you most DEFINATELY may NOT DO is DEFINE ME.

    Ricochet keeps a firm eye on the ancient texts. Amit keeps a firm eye on a whole slew of subjects, past and present, Becky brings observations on a philosophical level, Just a Thought brings short but piercing, usually missed signs e.g. Doppelgangers (not lost on me), Espumpin spots the signs around on several fronts…also how they relate to the big picture. Bad Bart brings the unusual.

    Hopefully Raven will stay and bring wisdom re atmospherics (those things which cannot be seen, but can be detected and studied visa vie their effects), amongst other subjects, about which Raven obvioulsy has extensive wisdom.

    BTW, not a word re spelling or grammer….whether an accidental slip of the fingure, or pressure to write quickly on your part……I have decided to believe that you can do neither, irrespective of the truth and facts.

    I tire of the posturing.
    Leah

  384. I’ll add…..re irrespective of the truth and facts, whether known now or at any time in the future.

  385. Amit at 04:08 today. What you say is correct. There have been a number of ice ages including two, possibly three, total coverages of the planet by ice [Snow Ball Earth]. I think it was recognised quite early on after ice ages were ‘proved’ that erratics, polished and scratched ice, glacial mud/till, morraines etc were the products of immense forces that acted over long periods of time.

  386. Ice ages don’t usually last tens of millions of years. The total global one in the Pre-Cambrian possibly did but the Pleistocene only really kicked in 2 1/2 million years ago. These were typically 5-10 thousand years in extent with slightly shorter inter-glacial and inter-stadila periods. Technically speakinig we’re still in the Ice Age and probably halfway through an inter-glacial

  387. Additional. Off the top of my head the Ordovician ice age might have lasted more than a cou[ple of million years. Once I’ve flipped through ‘Understandiing The Earth’ I’ll let you know.

  388. Time is a man made tool to coordinate their actions on Earth. All other species continue to utilise rotation and orbit around the sun as their tools of coordination.
    Time is Life is Time. Life is not defined by a clock.
    Distance exists without both speed and time, being the space between 2 or more objects.
    Speed exists without time, and distance, being momentum and not dependant on knowlege of, or the distance to be or being travelled.
    Time does not exist without speed, distance, or both. When one quotes “In 1 Hour from now” one is stating in truth “when earth has rotated on it axis X= distance divided by Y=speed + same re simultaneous orbiting of the sun.”
    To date, the only way speed has been perceived, is in conjunction with Time. Speed is not dependant on time when a shift in perception is adopted.

  389. Wow, now a friend just E-mailed this to me…
    FEMA Manual Has Guidelines for Dealing with UFOs
    While the existence of aliens and paranormal activity is discussed seriously by fringe types and Dennis Kucinich, it doesn’t get a whole lot of validity in mainstream. Still, as they say in the Boy Scouts, it never hurts to be prepared.

    It turns out that firefighters’ manuals all across the country — published in 1993 and distributed by the Federal Emergency Management Agency — have an entire chapter called “Enemy Attack and UFO Potential” that spells out how you should be ready during a UFO attack.

    The chapter looks at the roles the local fire departments might play if aliens touched down, and depicts a “Close Encounters” situation where firefighters, “May have engine trouble on approaching the scene. Radio contact could be lost with your dispatcher …” The book even provides information on how injured aliens should be treated.

    While giving the Heimlich maneuver to an alien seems reasonable, we’re hoping the manual isn’t instructing America’s first responders to offer up some mouth-to-mouth.

    Wow, why make a manual for make believe?

  390. Martin, I didn’t credit the sumerians with anything at all. Science did.

    Its a fact that all that I stated started in sumer first.

    I realize that there are a lot of pyramids in china. I wish that they allowed western scientist access to them.

    And paul, I didn’t say that the sumerians discovered schools and the like. I said that they established many first and that their writings attribute credit for their knowledge to their gods.

    If you think that I’ll leave this site because you continually condescend and resort to insults, you’re mistaken.

    Dude, I’m not a young boy of 16 or even 25. I’m 49 and I’ve been exposed to all kinds of people. Many like you. I don’t imagine that at work you react the way you do here when interacting with people. Blogs are great places to become puffed up and belittle others. In real life I don’t imagine you that way otherwise you wouldn’t have a job.

    Its cool man, we each have fantasies. In here you can be the bully you wish you were in real life.

    But I’ll still be here and the aliens are coming back.

    -R-

  391. Many reputable scientists have proposed that in times past, the speed of Earths rotation was much faster than it is now, and have some evidence. Further that the speed of Earth’s rotation has decreased gradually over time.

    If in fact that was the case, I’ll use the number 10, for ease of calculation and example….if Earth’s speed of rotation was 10 times faster than now……a day then would have been the equivalent of 2 hours 24 minutes of our time (in terms of …frame of reference, 1 rotation on axis=1 day)…..but nevertheless a day it was. If the speed of Earth’s orbit around the Sun was the same as now, a year would have had 3,652:5 days…..and what seems to us now, to be a very long year….but very short 10 fold number of days.

    If the speed of Earth’s orbit around the Sun was also 10 times faster, they would have had what seems to us now….both very short days and years. Time is relative, and is a variable….Einstein etc etc.

  392. Paul you say that other civilizations sprouted right around the time of Sumer. This is incorrect, all civilizations have their roots in Sumer. Even today, in the civilization in which we live we still use many sumerian firsts.

    When I asked about evolution I didn’t mean civilization evolution. It would stand to reason that the evolutionary theory would allow for aborigines living in the jungles in this age. However due to the fact that they were isolated it didn’t happen did it?

    Is evolution selective then?

    Sumer is called the “the cradle of civilization” for a reason.

    To give you an idea as to how old it was, when the Romans discovered the structure at Baalbek and they built on the ruins the temple of Heliopolis. The existing structure that they built upon was already ancient and Sumer was older than Babylon.
    This is all fact.

    I don’t understand how you can call these people idiots and kinuckledraggers at that. They created the first civilization. By calling me an idiot you in fact call them idiots because all I’m doing is repeating here what they left us as their history.

    But you know better right?

    -R-

  393. An ancient text that quotes someone living to be say 1000 years old, would really be stating, 1000 complete orbits of the Sun. Without knowing the speeds of those orbits, we don’t know how much of our time that 1000 years is relative to, within our present frame of reference of 24 hours=1 day, and 365.25 days = 1 year.

  394. Rico: re Sumerians.Whether you said they discovered or established schools, lasw, doctors etc makes no difference. Thje fact that these things were first formalised there is pretty much beyond dispute. I say again, the Sumerians were a great people who did it themselves without help from aliens. Prctically every culture dedicates building to gods, ascribes natural phenomena to the gods. Even in fairly recent history here in Europe storms, extreme weather etc were laid at the foot of God simply because most people didn’t realise how nature worked. By all means believe gods helped the Sumerians and that aliens will return but don’t clog up this site with your beliefs. There must be dozens of religious, alien conatct site sfor you to join. You’re not going to find converts here.

  395. Dear Raven Turcotte,
    Yes……..just yesterday I was attending to Calderas, supervolcanoes etc. Is there one that consists of 12, that makes up the whole caldera ? Dumb question….humour me, please.
    Such an eruption is simultaneoulsy the effect of 1 or more lets say influences, which in turn becomes a cause in its own right.
    Leah

  396. Dear All,
    To admit, that there are those events and things which are NOT within the control of the Human race, in spite of its best efforts to understand in depth enough to gain control of through its technology, and to NOT speak of it, due to the panic it would cause, is a wise thing.

    E.g. An unpublisised incoming Asteroid that humanity has not found a way to deflect or blow appart etc etc, and therefore the impact cannot be influenced or stopped, is better left unpublisised. If it were to be common knowlege….sadly there is a small percentage of people world wide, but enough in numbers, whos subsequent behaviour would make humanities remaining days a dangerous living hell on Earth. Looting, violence with and without weapons, acts of cruelty etc, as their self centred bitterness is unleashed in the light of a devastating truth.
    Asteroid can be substituted by any prefered reference, but the scenario is the same.
    Just the mention of food shortage has resulted in riots, and other acts, that by the way did not result in the aquisition of food in the desired quantities.
    Beware unleashing a Tigre, that once freed cannot be caged again.
    Leah

  397. Leah. Yes I do see the link between earthquakes, volcanoes and tsunamis. I’m not disputing that. I am disputing that the first two can be predicted with any accuracy as to when they will occur. Where they will occur isn’t a problem. Geologists know that a ‘quake will occur in northern Turkey and very recent tpredictions say that quakes seem to be creeping along the fault in sequence each one adding strain to the sticking point further west that could end with a very severe ‘quake hitting Istanbul in the future [known as a cascade event]. But when this might happen they can’t say can’t.

  398. Leah. I think it is a pretty safe bet that no civilisation in the past WAS as successful technologically as we are. That they were as intelligent as we are is not in doubt. It is quite obvious they were as can be gleaned from writngs about laws, the existance of gods[by that I mean they speculated about life after death, being different to themselves etc] which indicate a sophisticated intellect. One of the reasons we have a highly technological society today is the amount of free time we have to develop technology from thoughts, theories an dsheer speculation. The fight for daily survival in the west has now passed most of us by leaving time for contemplation. Until recently, the past 200 years or so, man’s day consisted of tending livestock, tending and harvesting fields, working six and a half days in factories. The Industrial Revolution started the change physically. The Renaisance had changed things mentally and intrellectually.
    The accelerating pace of change in the mid-late 19th century was mirrored by scientific advances in chemistry and medicine. Mass production brought huge benefits to the masses giving them a levgel of comfort and disposable goods that were unheard of a generation before. Wider education gave the working classes opportunities that had only been available to the upper and middle classes. I have no doubt that had the Sumerians/Egyptians etc not had to toil as hard as they did and more importantly been free they might have developed further as they were just as clever as we are. They are essentially the same people as were are – Homo sapiens sapiens. It’s been a long time historically since the inhabitants of the planet have been physically and intellectually different from us.

  399. Rico. At no time have I called the Sumerians idiots and knuckledraggers. Those comments were directed towards you, Amit, Just A Thought and some other nitwit who were ranting about ancient alien visitations, hidden knowledge known only to a few and similar rubbish. Your postings seem to imply that you have access to it. Why not go on television and share it with us? But then of course it wouldn’t yours any longer would it?

  400. Following a recent trip to my local library I contacted the head librarian and asked her to re-classify books by von Daniken, Velikovsky and the like. I told her they should be removed from the astronomy section and placed in the fiction/fantasy section. Ideally they should be put in the rubbish bin but I thought that they should be kept so people might be aware of such scrawlings. She replied by email today saying that after a meeting and a read through a couple of them the library had agreed. Result! Darkness hasn’t descended and we’ll push the buggers back into their caves yet.

  401. Having read Espumpins last recommendation…..It would seem, that hormone production defficiency is a problem for some entities. To freak out, panic, get over emotional, stressed, or in particular fearful and the fight or flight condition, which floods the metabolism with ADRENALIN, would result in an increased level of hormone production, in that person.

    I couldn’t possibly comment…..but does a lack of self control not play straight into the hands of these entities ? Would a lack of self control not give them exactly what they want ?

  402. This is coming from all angles, Have to pass this along.
    Saturn Dazzles With Mysterious LightSpace.com
    posted: 1 HOUR 1 MINUTE AGOcomments: 31filed under: Science News
    (Nov. 12) — An inexplicable new broad region of auroral light has been photographed at Saturn’s polar cap. We’ve never seen an aurora like this elsewhere,” said Tom Stallard, an RCUK Academic Fellow working with Cassini data at the University of Leicester. “It’s not just a ring of aurorae like those we’ve seen at Jupiter or Earth. This one covers an enormous area across the pole. Our current ideas on what forms Saturn’s aurorae predict that this region should be empty, so finding such a bright one here is a fantastic surprise.”
    These colorful atmospheric light shows are caused when charged particles stream along the magnetic field of a planet and into its atmosphere. On Earth the charged particles come from the solar wind – a stream of particles that emanates from the sun. Skywatchers at high latitudes know the resulting displays as the Northern Lights.
    Jupiter’s main auroral ring, caused by interactions internal to Jupiter’s magnetic environment, is constant in size. Saturn’s main aurora, which is caused by the solar wind, changes size dramatically as the wind varies.
    The newly observed aurora at Saturn, however, doesn’t fit into either category.
    “Saturn’s unique auroral features are telling us there is something special and unforeseen about this planet’s magnetosphere and the way it interacts with the solar wind and the planet’s atmosphere,” said Nick Achilleos, a scientist on the Cassini magnetometer team at the University College London. “Trying to explain its origin will no doubt lead us to physics which uniquely operates in the environment of Saturn.”
    The new image, in infrared, was imaged by the Cassini spacecraft. It is reported in the Nov. 13 issue of the journal Nature.

  403. Further, If there were such contracts, and if in retrospect the desire to get out of those contracts, I dare say that a mind or minds, that think in unusual ways, would be able to find the chink in the contract, in order to do so. Possibly even in the armour.
    Just observing.

  404. Dear Ricochet,
    Thank goodness for humour….could be one of our best weapons / tools. Your copyright of coarse.
    Goodnight.
    Leah

  405. Re the site Espumpin recommended….its possible that something was lost in translation re Aztecs etc…..maybe they had to sacrifice many of their number.
    Also, with so many other powerful ones, who are benevolent, how can the one race be more powerful than them collectively…..or is it that they are waiting for something…timing can be everything. As was written by someone, they are not what they seem, will anounce their presence, which will produce cacaphony, which serves their pupose, as the more we react the better, as there is something which is extremely difficult for them to do for themselves.
    Further that they can no longer allow us to carry on the way we are going, lest we destroy ourselves and Earth. BUT THEY WANT CACAPHONY, which is DISCHORD.

    Seems to me, if they are here, they are primitive and naive…..except for their technology.
    Just an observation.

  406. Dear Amit,
    I’m honoured by your kindnesses. Appologies if I disappointed you, but you know Some Angels Don’t Play Haarps…..piano for me, and as you’ve noticed….have a couple of teeth left.

    More of a Sleeping Dragon really……benevolent though.
    Leah

  407. Dear Amit,
    If you lay around with what I wrote re Time being relative, you can begin to see how it applies to some of the ancient texts.
    Leah

  408. Dear Just a Thought,
    Me again, the dense one…..what had you asked more than once ?

    BTW, I had a good laugh at my suggestion that Amit….you should LAY with the numbers…..had a picture in my head of someone rolling around on the floor in numbers. Bet Einstein did that once or twice in frustration.
    Leah

  409. Dear Just a Thought,

    Wow I’ve been Knighted. The answers are there, but too much too fast is a killer…or produces cacaphony. However tick tock…tick tock. Vous are worthy.
    I haven’t slept in 40 hours, but in the mood for humour, as its been a hell of a day, but good in the end. So i’ll try to sleep per chance to dream…..
    Be well, Leah

  410. Dear Amit,
    Sounds like my life….eat when hungry….sleep when it comes. I’ll take a look, just can’t promise when.

    Just a Thought,
    Honestly, I’m not lethal. Last 2 days were about the life and wellbeing of an animal.
    Leah

  411. Recommendation……Re additional input of late, respectfully suggest reading E’s suggested site (if not already read), then D and company’s posts, then Thoth – Emerald Ta#lets. A different perspective may be gained.

  412. Amit,
    Sounds like good reading…especially as a brain break…you know, get off planet….and if not…into the planet. I’m old as you know, so Arthur C Clarke, Greg Bear, Clive Barker, etc etc. Clarke’s Childhood’s End, its short, is a must read, especially in these times.
    I spend a huge amount of time keeping up with tech and the way of things, +++. Thanks to the internet, research goes somewhat faster. Can’t replace the books though.
    Leah

  413. Morning all, For some reason I couldn’t wait to see the responses. I want to explain that in my line of work it’s sometimes better to not own a P.C. or laptop, so as to not give “them” a reason to investigate you.
    Not that I have anything to hide, just i’ve seen how they’ve treated others under investigation. Thank you all for welcoming me into the fold, only a few choice of us whisper in corners some of the things discussed here.
    Anyway, I am honored to be welcomed but the bickering with Paul must stop. Agree to disagree gentlemen, or Asses is all you make of yourselves. Be the bigger man and stop this is not helping in finding the solution.
    Now getting into why we are here, scientists have uncovered evidence from around the world that the early Dark Ages may have been triggered by an actual event that occurred around 535 A.D.
    Have you ever heard of a science writer named David Keys? He believes that the cause was a natural phenomenon of cataclysmic proportions. Alot of us agree with him here. We believe the world came to an end in 535 AD. Say what? They didn’t teach about this in High School, unless one is very young lol. They did teach that the Dark Ages started about then, right?. The Dark Ages weren’t limited to Europe you know, all over the world civilisations went into decline. More importantly, the Dark Ages weren’t caused by invading barbarians or some other human caused calamity, something else truly terrible happened that sent the whole planet into a tailspin. We can track back atmospherics conditions like the Mayans tracked the stars. Everything is in a pattern, just like history & we all know history repeats itself. And the greatest secret of history, what you were never taught at school or college, is that our planet had a global catastrophe in living memory, in 535 AD. You won’t find this information elsewhere on the internet either. Something happened which caused the light of the sun to be dimmed greatly around the globe for 18 months. During this time, many trees did not grow at all. This event was followed by 30 years of unprecedented droughts and some flooding. This caused the death of a vast percentage of the population through starvation and disease. Now I must sound like a lunatic, but we have been tracking a fault line that is ready to set the volcanic arcs ablaze & we are not permitted to tell anyone. Our research used a seismic imaging technique (reflection seismology) to detect layered structures within the mantle wedge of the Tonga, Which by the way is in the subduction zone in the southwestern Pacific. Analyzing data from deep earthquakes that occurred beneath the subduction zone, we looked for seismic waves that traveled upward into the mantle wedge,until they reflected from the underside of layers within the mantle, and were recorded by seismic sensors in distant locations. We were stunned to find many reflecting boundaries in the mantle wedge above the sinking slab, and these are laterally extensive throughout the wedge region. This is surprising because the textbook version of mantle wedges suggests that there would be little structure.
    We have been told in secret that soon the internet, you-tube really will be monitered and shut down. This is a friends lab top i’m using. Last night I used the one at the job but we have agreed not to do that anymore, this information must be spread some how someway. Again excuse me for jumpimg from subject to subject but time is of the essence. It is likely that the cause of this catastrophe was the eruption of the super volcano Krakatoa. (Note: The terms “Super volcano” is used for a volcano with hundreds of times the power of any that we have visually recorded in the past few hundred years. Use the term “super volcano” also for further research Sept. 12,1883, Java & David Keys). We now have two super volcanoes showing signs of getting ready to erupt. Each is bigger than Krakatoa. One is in Naples Italy and the other in Yellowstone USA. The Powers That Be know all this and are keeping this knowledge to themselves. That is probably one reason why they have so many DUMBS (Deep Underground Military Bases). They are planning to turn this knowledge to their own advantage to take control of us. However, with the knowledge of what may come in our life time, you can prepare so that you and your family are not affected. This reminds me of the end times you hear about, the U.S. elects someone the “whole world trust”? Okay, I gotta go i’ll use this site but i’ll be hit an miss. It takes so long reading everyones bloggs before posting I feel like theres something else I wanted to say.

    Yours Sincerely
    RavenTurcotte

  414. Leah, Thanks I like the veiw you gave of me please here is part of the web-site I put the link to interstering stuff……
    On May 20 I personally received information from a former member of the NSA (National security agency) through a third party. I wish to protect this man’s identity and so I will call him ‘G’. This is the first time this information is being made public.

    G was subcontracted by the NSA in the late 1980’s and worked for the NSA until 1992. He was a senior electrical engineer in the Los Alamos underground base in New Mexico. G also worked at the Alamo Gordo DUMB in New Mexico and an underground base in Hawaii. He said the Los Alamos base goes two miles underground and is the size of a small city.

    Whilst there he witnessed rows of caged humans, tall grey aliens and a reptilian alien. G says the NSA was very hard on all subcontractors and people were worked very hard under severe conditions.

    According to G the US federal government, the USAF and the DOE (department of energy) run the Hawaii DUMB he worked at. This base goes down two miles and stretches out into the Pacific Ocean.

    It was here that three very tall and muscular ‘Nordic’ looking men (who according to G were reptilian/human hybrids because their eyes would ‘shift’ into having vertical slits for pupils) chased him along the motorway there and threatened to kill him because he had overheard them talking about some piece of high technology.

    Understandably G has been emotionally scarred from these experiences and does not like talking to people about them.

    I was also told on May 23 from this source that in June there would be a huge amount of HAARP engineered earthquakes on the west coast of America and that the DUMBS there had already been evacuated and shut down. This was one hundred percent accurate because between the 21 and 28 of June there were at least 400 earthquakes on the West Coast of America.

    I posted all this information on the God like productions forum on the net and within hours the post was hacked into and removed.

    By executive order the NSA is exempt from all laws which do not specifically name the NSA in the text of the law. Which basically means they can do whatever they want and are answerable to no one.

    This is because of its interaction with extra-terrestrial species and its twisted view that the people are children and cannot handle the truth.

    There is currently an internal war raging in the global intelligence community regarding the alien agenda. This is between negative and positive factions. From my understanding one of the main negative factions is a group centred around MI6 and the CIA called ‘Aquarius‘. This group is covering up the truth, blatantly lying and discrediting or murdering anyone who gets too close to exposing what is going on. There is also a positive group centred around naval intelligence called ’Comm 12’ which is leaking accurate information regarding the alien agenda into the public arena.

    When the missile (not plane) hit the pentagon on 9-11, it hit the naval intelligence section of the building. This was part of the internal war between Aquarius and Comm 12 being played out.

    Aquarius has also enlisted the help of Hollywood and the mainstream media to twist the facts of the alien agenda and blind the public to the truth. Sir Martin Wakefield Jacomb was director for the telegraph newspapers in 1986. He is also connected into MI6 and is involved with laundering MI6 drug money through the bank of England. Jacomb was the director of the bank of England from 1987 to 1995. Former head of the CIA William Casey was head of the council of the media network ABC. Many Insiders refer to the ABC network as ‘The CIA network’.

    The grey and reptilian aliens working together with the military in the underground bases is called MIEC (military industrial extra- terrestrial complex). This is a malevolent organisation, as you shall see with the following information. There are also benevolent ET’s on this planet. These groups are not part of the MIEC and are from the Pleiades, Andromeda, Lyra, Procyon, Tau Ceti, Sirius A, and Ummo. These groups seem to work together in some kind of protective ‘federation’.

    On February 20, 1954 a delegation from these groups met with the Eisenhower administration in an unsuccessful effort to reach an agreement on the US’s thermonuclear weapons program. The stumbling block to these negotiations was that these ET’s were not willing to provide technology that might have been used by the military-industrial factions of the Eisenhower administration. These peace loving ‘human looking’ beings refused to be co-opted into the emerging military industrial extra terrestrial complex (MIEC) in the US, Britain, Russia and elsewhere on the planet.

    On July 11, 1934 the first treaty with the greys from Orion occurred aboard a naval ship in Balboa. This was one of the most important events in human history because it thrust us into a role we were not prepared for as regards to being a host to a malevolent extra-terrestrial race. The US federal government disregarded the constitution of the United States by doing this and not telling the people. It was here that the agreement was first made between the greys representing the reptilians from Orion and representatives of the US intelligence community. The treaty stated that in return for the greys providing high technology (anti-gravity, metals and alloys, environment, free energy and medical technology) the government would allow the greys to proceed unhindered with human abductions. This was only if a list of abductees was provided to the government and the abductees returned unharmed with their memories of the events erased.

    In 1944 the second extension of the treaty was signed. I have very little details of this.

    In May 1954 again under the Eisenhower administration the third extension of this treaty was signed called ‘The Greada treaty’. The greys and reptilians blatantly broke the terms of this treaty as we shall see later in this information. The greada treaty was agreed upon at the Holloman air force base in New Mexico by the greys and the ‘Ultra’ unit in the NSA. The original document of this treaty and the ET materials from it can be found today at the NSA facility called ‘Blue moon’ underneath Kirkland air force base in New Mexico. The entrance to this underground base is in the Manzano mountains. Also at this location is the technological base of the secretive department of energy (DOE). Today free energy devices developed from grey and reptilian technology are being built for use in space at the DOE base.

    On April 15 1964 two intelligence personnel met under ‘project Plato’ with the greys in the New Mexico desert to arrange a meeting on April 25 at Holloman air force base in New Mexico. This meeting was to renew the treaty again in a psychological bid to buy time in order to solve the problem of the greys and reptilians.

    A truly nightmarish situation is now unfolding. Phil Schneider was a geologist, structural engineer and underground tunnelling expert for the US government and the UN. He participated in the construction of many DUMBS in North America and other countries. Phil was murdered by the CIA on January 17 1996 in his apartment in Wilsonville in Portland, Oregon.

    In 1979 in Dulce New Mexico, Phil Schneider was drilling into the desert there to build an auxiliary base in the southern end of Dulce on top of an already existing underground base there. The already existing base had been built by the US government in the 1940’s under ’ operation blue note’ but afterwards had been taken over by greys and reptilians. Over a period of two days Phil and his team had drilled four holes in the desert that went down several thousand feet.

    I’ll crash the thread if I print all there is this is from only halfway through. You gotta check it out.
    -E

  415. PJ fount of profundities that you are I will ask again, how do you pretend to know me?
    Untill you called me out by name I was not aware of all the things you have given me credit for.
    Thank you (I guess)?

  416. I will echo Leah and support her as well as claim it for myself …..”but what you most DEFINATELY may NOT DO is DEFINE ME.”
    Thank you again Leah for just the right words!!

  417. To be sang to the tune of row row row your boat

    Roll roll roll a joint !!

    Twist it at the ends !!

    Light it up and take a puff !!

    And pass it to a friend !!!

    Good nite…..Mates,

    -R-

  418. Paul, wqe are not in the middle of Inter Glacial period, we are at the end..
    The New Ice age is almost upon us..
    Proofs you would say, right?
    Here you go —

    Record snowfall in Europe and North America
    – ski resorts open early
    11 Nov 08

    Rain, snow halts North Dakota row crop harvest
    10 Nov 08

    2008 Temperatures Below
    NormalMost of USA
    12 Nov 08

    Snow storms roll across the US – 11 Nov 08
    Record low temperature shatters 52-year-old record – 7 Nov 08
    Blizzard blasts Plains; parts of I-90 closed – 6 Nov 08
    Record October cold in Anchorage – 4 Nov 08

    Half a month’s rain in one day in South Africa – 13 Nov 08 –

    Chilliest November night on record in Tasmania – 5 Nov 08

    Worst November snowfall in 30 years hits New Zealand
    “More akin to the depths of winter.”
    4 Nov 08

    Britain set to plunge into Arctic weather conditions this month – 3 Nov 08

    Surrey enjoys first October snowfall in 121 years – 29 Oct 08

    Skiing in Scotland already! – 31 Oct 08

    Record snow storm in Switzerland – The most snow
    for any October since records began in 1931 – 30 Oct 08

    First October snow in London in 74 years – 29 Oct 08

    Heavy snow in Tibet – Rare for this time of year – 29 Oct 08

    Blizzards forecast as temperature set to drop lower than Siberia
    … no wonder the swans are staying there – 28 Oct 08

    Brisbane has coldest October morning since 1976 – 23 Oct 08

    Record cold snap brings snow to Australia – 22 Oct 08

    Early snowfall across Ontario – 22 Oct 08 –

    One month’s rain in four days in Costa Rica – 18 Oct 08

    Greenland temps more akin to December, not early October – 4 Oct 08

    South Africa faces ‘winter wonderland’ after snow and coldest September in recorded history – 21 Sep 08

    Source – BBC Weather News..

    Now do you say all this is mere co-incidence???

  419. Paul,

    You have no right to splash mud on the works of Velikovsky and likes.
    THE work of Zecharia Sitchin is without question the most mind stretching cosmology available to date. Furthermore, it appears unchallanged academically.
    I personally recommend everyone to read Zecharia Sitchin’s Earth Chronicles. You won’t be disappointed.
    Among other things, Sitchin’s investigations indicate that there may be an outpost in orbit around Mars preventing current humans from getting there (a fact verified by both U.S.and Russian space probe problems in that neighborhood). But the primary focus of this impressive research is ancient Sumer. The decipherment of that culture’s clay tablets, buried for millennia, reveals roots that stretch all the way back to 450,000 B.C.
    There are some very significant findings on the existence of this other race of people. One the rather compelling is the “face on Mars,” the structure in the area called , Cydonia on the Red Planet (Mars). ~Now this is really groovy—> When the relationship of the face on Mars is analysed for its distance to other pyramidal structures also discovered on Mars, the geometric relationship is found to be “identical” to the distances of the Egyptian Sphinx and the Pyramids in the surrounding areas of Egypt. Sitchin concluded the placement of these pyramids indicates that they served as landing markers for the Nibiruans after they entered the Earth’s atmosphere from outer space. Sitchin also has asserted that the early pyramids were not designed by the Egyptians (Anyone that has actually researched what was involved in the designing of the pyramids can see why this makes sense). NBC-TV aired a program on Nov.10, 1993 entitled “The Mystery of the Sphinx”, indicating that the Sphinx is 2,000 years older than previously thought. Then, in Jan 2001, the Discovery channel aired a special where scientists now think the Sphinx could be as much as 10,000 yrs old! This corroborates Sitchin’s findings that someone other than the Egyptians designed the Sphinx & Pyramids.
    ONE astounding assertion after another has made Sitchin the most controversial writer of our time because he challenges everything we thought we knew about “human civilization” (or at least what we’ve been spoon fed, to think we know) . It’s easy to dismiss Sitchin’s research in the same way that other people dismiss UFO’s, Eric Von Daniken and countless other researchers who claimed to have found evidence for extraterrestrial visitors to this planet. But Sitchin is well aware of this devil’s advocacy, and vaporizes the arguments of skeptics with solid scholarship, including the most rigorous translations of Sumerian text, Vedic tales and excerpts from the original Greek and Hebrew versions of the Bible. This ability to translate many languages is no small achievement. Those of us who will never possess the ability to decipher 6,000-year-old clay tablets must understand that Sitchin has devoted his life to doing just that.(Not to mention risking his reputation). His sources reveal an utter integrity, including the finest, most respected citations and references imaginable.

    THE two most notable individuals to pay attention and meet with Sitchin were Colin Powell and Norman Schwarzkopf, the American Generals who were key figures in the recent Gulf War. The landing place of the Nibiruans was in an area once called Eridu, now called Southern Iraq. The main reason Saddam Hussein was not captured was because he was holding out in an ancient step pyramid constructed by one of those early civilizations mentioned by Sitchin, and which the Americans were loathe to bomb, because of their “inestimable” historical value. Once the gloss of the media is removed from consensus reality, an entirely new picture emerges as to who knows what concerning what Sitchin has uncovered. The circumstantial evidence in the Earth Chronicles concerning the Nibiruans is absolutely compelling…………( And thus far, un-contested)

  420. Yeah Leah, you used the perfect words…
    All that paul does here is define people!
    You will be a Good litigator for sure!

    Wonder where his good friend Martin has gone?? I want him to come back because i have a lot more of “his chinese history” to pile upon him!

    Rico, its so sad how people like Paul ridicule the works of Sitcin and all, without knowing anything about the same! If there was any expert on Sumerian History, its him without any doubt and without any Peers!!

    Epumpin, Scary indeed… There was never any doubt that the Govt hides a lot more than it reveals….. You keep unearthing such sinister plans!!!

    Raven, Now thats quite a revelation… But you know what, Paul will do a somersault and pounce upon you now!

  421. Anytime Leah…..
    And no, you did not disappoint me, because i know there is a limit to how far one can be pushed!
    And i agree with your last post…
    I promise to refrain from commenting upon “Paul” henceforth… But i will surely address posts to him to have arguments, but i can assure you that it will never come down to personal affronts..
    Leah, re Ancient texts, i already see them making perfect sense with every aspect! Paul says that we are the most technically advanced generation.. I wonder what he has to got say about the accuracy of Mayan Astronomical Calculations?? And thats Pure astronomy i am talking about, cycles of Venus, Moon etc…

  422. As for PLAY NICE,
    Count me in!
    Just could not help but wonder, and I have asked more than once.

  423. Sure Just A Thought…..
    Lets show them that we can counter their profanities through Niceties, and if even that does not work, we can choose to ignore!

    But as of now, i am holding up my White Flag!

    Lets see if the Golden Rule works here!

  424. Amit,
    That’s far out, solid and right-on my brother.
    Lady Leah,
    (I feel) We are not worthy.
    For fear of forgetting to name someone,
    To summit people,
    each one of you are valuable to me!
    Keep the faith, together we may be able to “break the code” or find some answers.

  425. Leah, be sure that i am always intrigued by the concept of Time & Distance….
    Do you know about Edgar Rice Burrough’s “Pellucidar” series? I know its pure fiction (Before anyone comments adversely on this). In Pellucidar (At The Earth’s core), there is a sun that hangs perpetually over the land, and there is no concept of time there… People just sleep when they are tired and eat when they are hungry…. Weird, but an interesting concept.. And the book is so fantastic! If you want , you can download the text free on Project Gutenberg (because the Copyright has expired) and read…

  426. Dear JAT, dont be bothered about what others think of you. You are what you are!
    nd as far as i know you, you seem to be a “Good Fella”…
    People are inclined to have their own opinions. All we can do is try to change it of it pertains to us. If it works, fine. If its doesn’t, well, Who Cares! Row your boat…….

  427. It feesl so nice to be “talking” to you here!!! I generally hve to play catch up after you have all gone to sleep!
    Wonderful time this!
    And Good Night Lady Leah!
    May you have dreams of the 5th Sun, a world without peril and hate, with eveyone having a halo about their head and playing Harp/Piano!

  428. I KNEW IT AMIT – (fun)- what’s in your pipe-don’t ask don’t tell.
    Leah- weary and tired, go to rest and wake even more blessed.

  429. leah, My interest in Edgar Rice Burroughs started with “Earth Mysteries” on Scared texts.. I first read many stories about “Center of The Earth”.. There is one by Jules Verne which is very impressive, a very scientific sort of journey.. There is another called “Etidorhpa” .. Wonderful works. But dont keep a “critic” like attitude while reading, just take it as Entertainment along with some true facts..
    OK, after that i hit upon the EDB stuff.. And i’m hooked on ever since.. His Martian series, Caspak Series, Pellucidar Series.. Absolutely wonderful wonderful stuff!!! I am a voracious reader and just gobbling up his books day after day!

  430. Yes, Leah nothing beats the pleasure of leafing through an “Actual” book.. But internet does a great job of preserving these old works and making them available to us!

    Arthur Clarke is wonderful, and so is Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.. I just adore his great character called “Professor Challenger”!

    Clive Barker is also very interesting, Undying and Unbeliever, especially…

    And ever heard of Robert E Howard??
    Yeah, you got me started..

  431. Amit,
    you ask where I am, Bangkok time + 7hours on the comp. It seems when I am awake most of you are awake, and the other way round. When I start my day I have to catch up by reading for more than an hour until I have time to comment.
    But Amit, thank you so much, I really mean it and really appreciate it for your posts 13 nov 1.30am. These chinese stories are great and I never heard of them. Thank you so much.

  432. Asking for my backkground?
    Electrical engineer computer engineer, Doing research in AI with Phycisists, Mathmaticans and Electrical Engineers between 1985 and 1991. Then stopped. hopped to England, Totnes lived in the area 2 years, hopped back to southern Germany for another 2 years, then got lost in the djungle of Thailand for the last 14 years.
    Since 1991 haven’t touched a book, except The teachings and the canon of the Lord Buddha. and the teachings of Acharn Mun and Acharn Maha Boowa.
    If you are interested in mythical stuff, celestial beings, ghosts demons nagas etc. read the biography of Acharn Mun. He has encountered these beings talked with them and asked them questions. etc.
    When young I read all of Arthur Clarke and Arthur Conan Doyle. and so on.
    More questions about me?

  433. BTW, when I came to Thailand, a site excavation in the North east of Thailand was discovered and was at that time counted for as the oldest civilization found on the planet.

  434. I find it a bit strange that the Aliens after 1935 only contacted US Government?

    About the Bell or die Glocke, Madame Curie found out about radiation a century before. So I don’t think the development of the Glocke to be so strange. Especially when the atomic bomb was developed in Germany at the same time. Or maybe I didn’t get the point what you were trying to say. Maybe I misunderstood you completely. Then I’m truly sorry.
    Martin

  435. Raven,
    thanks a lot. You have any idea in what time range these super volcanos might erupt?
    And About the dark ages.
    The last I knew was about 400AD that the OstGoths invaded Rome, the next chapter was Emperor Karl The Great in around 800 AD. Inbetween was at my time left blank. And now I wonder why I never asked this question what happened inbetween,

  436. Oh BTW
    In Thailand there are beings called Nagas. Huge snakes. They normally do belong to the Demon Realm of Existence. The US Maine caught one of them as a snake. I have to dig out the photo if someone is interested. These Nagas have large cities underground. They can change their form of appearance, be it snakes or demons or even to human shape. They can fly, or go by foot or crawl as a snake. They also can create. There is a site in North East of Thailand, it is called Oasis and its plantation or trees were created in one night. And the vegetation is unknown to grow in this region elswhere. It happened In this century about 40 or fifty years ago. The oasis is 1 km in diameter. There is a deep well unmeasurable in depth where this naga lives.
    At the time of the Lord Buddha one of the nagas appearing in human form wanted to ordain as a monk, but the Lord Buddha refrained and told only human beings are allowed to ordain.
    just for your consideration
    Martin

  437. Amit
    you say you have more of these chinese stories. You don’t have to type them just give me a few links Thanks a lot.
    Martin

  438. Hey Martin,

    Good to know more about you.. Can you refer me some good links about the teachings of Acharn Mun and Acharn Maha Boowa.
    I am very much interested in Buddhism because their teachings are very humanitarian and relate to doing some basic things in a simple manner to attain peace of mind..
    As for more Chinese stories, i will keep them coming. As of now, i would suggest you to research about Dropa Stones…. If possible, share your findings here…
    And Oh, about that photograph of Naga, please do that by all means! And BTW, “Naga” is a hindi word which means Snake…
    And as for Alien thery, even i find it strange that they have contacted only US Govt , in secret. But their contacts being controlled is a possibility that we cannot discard entirely either… And what do we know, maybe the Alien hand is the reason for US domination of the world in the last century ?? Just a speculation….

  439. Dear Paul,
    RE the 1500 DUMBs today, compared to some of the underground dwellings of the past, such as the town in Turkey, it looks very much like something happens on a regular basis, that necessitates going underground for safety.
    Naturally it does not happen according to a clock or calendar, it happens by formula and when the conditions synchronise.
    The pictures of Spacemen etc, as in Von Daniken……could just as easily be of men in HAZMATS. The picture of a 1 eyed being, could be of a later generation that had mutated due to radiation.
    It is feasible to wonder if the effects of a past event / events, might have been so devastating, that it was not possible to live on the surface for a very long time, after which those humans evolved to their conditions and way of life underground, and did not return to live on the surface.
    Those few that survived on the surface, naturally will have developed differently, according to surface conditions. The survival of the fittest and finest in all species, is what we are today, mutations and all.

    There maybe a caste living below ground, which by appearances seem alien, but which are humans. Its no good to say impossible, as we weren’t there. Next year an expedition to find such places will commence. We shall see.

    Re ancients having possibly more technology than we do today…….there is no reason to feel threatened by that……as we are by default and the passing of time, the more highly evolved generation. It is this fact that makes us much more likely to survive repeat events….well. We are able to decipher the metaphors, myths and legends, left to us by the past, and in so doing, come up with the technology and science needed to help ourselves.

    We no longer call a space rocket, a ship of the Gods, or such like. We know its true nature, and call iy by its true name…..etc. Further, our capacity and skill to think and question, as individuals has increased to the extent that we are no longer so easily influenced by those that might wish to impress upon us their ideas / version of truth
    as the only definative truth in fact.

    Our resistance capacity to such tactics are at an all time high, as it were.
    Be well, Leah

  440. Hitler burnt books…..putting them on a different shelf …? An example of what I just wrote, “The wish, of one or more, to impress their version of a definitive truth in fact.”

    Sadly, the past has shown, that such acts / behaviour, have agendas, hidden or otherwise, as the driving force behind them.

    OR, driven by fear that a discovery of truth, will alter reality for ever….prefering to bury head in sand (ostriches don’t do that) and continue living a lie in the dark…..because it is at least, familiar.

  441. Martin,
    I will tell you what i know about Dropa Stones.
    Then you can research further if you want.
    The year was 1938. Location – Baian-Kara-Ula mountains on the border that divides China and Tibet. An archaeological expedition, led by Chi Pu Tei, has trudged into the barely accessible mountain range, and has happened upon some caves that had obviously been occupied by a primitive people long ago.

    On the walls were carved pictograms of the heavens: the sun, the moon, the stars, and the Earth with lines of dots connecting them. Then the team made the most incredible discovery of all. Half-buried in the dirt floor of the cave was an odd stone disk, obviously fashioned by the hand of an intelligent creature. The disk was approximately nine inches in diameter and three-quarters of an inch thick. In the exact center was a perfectly round, 3/4″ hole, and etched in its face was a fine groove spiraling out from the center to the rim, making the disk look for all the world like some kind of primitive phonograph record.This one plate, dated to be between 10,000 and 12,000 years old , but the wonder was multiplied manifold. In all, 716 such plates were found. And each held an incredible secret. The groove, upon further inspection, was not a groove at all, but a continuous line of strange carved hieroglyphics – writing!

    Dr. Tsum Um Nui , in 1962, painstakingly transcribed the characters from the disk to paper. The writing was so small he had to use a magnifying glass to see it clearly. But the stones were old – perhaps 12,000 years old, it was estimated – and much of the hieroglyphics were difficult to make out or had been worn away by time and the elements.

    As he worked, many questions nagged the professor. How did these primitive people fashion these precise stones? How did they manage the almost microscopic writing? Who were they and what was the purpose of these hundreds of stones? Once the characters were transcribed, Dr. Tsum Um Nui began the arduous task of trying to decode its message. Eventually, he began to make progress. A word emerged. Then another. A phrase became understandable, then an entire sentence. He had broken the code.

    He discerned that the messages on the stones were written by a people who called themselves the Dropa. But what they were saying to him 12,000 years later made no sense. What the Dropa had written must have been one of their cultural myths, or was part of some prehistoric religious ceremony. Or was it? When he had completed the translation the professor wrote up a paper on his findings and presented it to the university for publication. Their reaction was swift and emphatic: the paper would not be published. The Academy of Prehistory expressly forbade him to publish or even speak of his findings. The world, the academy decided, should not know about the Dropa and their fateful journey to Earth.The Dropa disks tell the story of a space probe from a distant planet that crash-landed in the Baian-Kara-Ula mountains of the Himalayas. The occupants of the spacecraft – the Dropa – found refuge in the caves of the mountains.The stones go on to say how the Dropa were unable to repair their disabled spacecraft and could not return to their home planet, and so were stranded on Earth. If that’s true, have their descendents survived?

  442. Sorry to contradict you Raven but the ‘powers that be’ are definitely not keeping the knowledge of super volcanoes to themselves. The Potzuoli/Bay Of Naples sea-bed rise has been the subject of two Horizon programmes on BBC 2 here in Britain – the first in the mid 1980’s the second just a few years ago. The Yellowstone super volcano has also been highlighted and discussed on an Horizon programme and well as in an edition of a series of BBC2 programmes about gloabal cataclysmic events which included asteroid impacts and giant tsunamis.
    The Dark Ages appears to have been initiated by some ‘big’ event probably a volcanic eruption. The early 19th century, [1815?] saw The Year WIthout A Summer whic was due an eruption caused by crustal splitting in Iceland. The effects were felt as far afield as China where hte rice harvest failed. There is a first hand account of it’s impact in Iceland by a Lutherean pastor. very vivid and very detailed. However, he felt it was a judgement from god – not that his belief diminishes his account which has in part led to some understanding of these type of of eruptions.

  443. I just copy a comment by william about dropa stones.
    I would venture to say this is an elaborate hoax. Not so much on the story itself, but by the amazing lack of any other piece of information to be found. When you search the web for “Dropa Stones” you’ll find lots of returns (200+), but almost all of them are this article, copied-and-pasted, complete with the same pictures. If this were a real story, there would be some other pieces of material in alternate forms.
    .. wherever I look I only find the same kind of information no other clues no other pictures and no pictures of the skeletons. Martin

  444. So the last research on Dropa is a very informative article under link
    http://www.ufodata.co.uk/pdf/UFO_Files_China's_Roswell.pdf
    When you look up the sources it all links back to the primary article. All what you can find on this topic is covered in the above link.
    Unless the discs and the skeletons are not found there is no evidence and not the slightest proof that Aliens visited Earth about 12,000 BC
    And if they had the technolgy to travel space they would surly have the technology to protect themselves from arrows and axes.
    have a nice day
    Martin

  445. Paul
    any more information you have concerning the supervolcanos?
    Know anything about Ries-crater and its effect. It says it had th power of 1.8 million Hiroshima bombs and was a meteor of diameter of 1.5 km ?

  446. A man seemingly, and hopefully, recovers from A.I.D.S. after bone marrow transplant following treatment for leukaemia. Brilliant news.
    Science 1; mumbo jumbo/ spell casting/incantation muttering 0.
    QED.

  447. To the people here whose avowed aim is to infect this site. It’s just like Bill Hicks said: “You’re just viruses with shoes”, or whatever it is that ‘JAT’ and his minions slip over their tentacles or claws.

  448. Last night as I was viewing the full moon I’m sure I heard some dogs howling. Anubis and friends?, I thought. More likely Amit/Rico/JAT.
    Yes, another cheap shot but the weekend beckons when everything is allowed.

  449. Robert E. Howard. Brilliant author, one of my favourites. I happen to think Conan is one of the best and most complete heroes in science fantasy. Howard is a master story teller and I feel he’s in a long line of traditional story tellers who can trace their lineage back to the camp fires thousands of years ago. Reading his stuff almost takes you there and involves you as a bystander to events.

  450. Regarding the Mayan calendar. Once again I have absolutely NO problem with their accuracy in time keeping, their accuracy in detailing planetary and stellar motions across the sky. Ditto, Sumerians, upon whose calcualtions Greek and hence modern astronomy is based[ got that??] and the ancient Britons. All fine observer of the day and night skies. No problem. Period.
    You may be interested however to learn that the most recent excavations at Stonehenge appear to indicate that while it may have been in part at some time during it’s life an aastronomical construction it’s main function was as a meeting place in the south west of Britain for the exchange of ideas, goods, healing [but not of the magical kind] and even perhaps as a place where tribal disputes in the area were resolved.

  451. I’ve not ridiculed Sitchin yet because I’ve not had time to seek him out. However if he is in the same camp as Velikovsky, who I have read, then he can expect the same.
    I read von Daniken as a teenager and enjoyed the first and to some believed what he was saying as I found archaeology too conservative. It also tied in with my belief in aliens out there and I was desperate to believe they had visited. However further readings convinced me otherwise. I also read ‘The Mysterious Unknown’ by Robert Charroux which did contain a number of interesting items; The Zarkon Principle which was a good read though barmy; and Our Mysterious Spaceship Moon by Soviet academicians Vasin and Shcherbakov. So I’m not unfamiliar with the stuff that has found it’s way from the wilder shores of sanity to a site discussing astronomy.

  452. One good thing to come from the von Daniken books was an album called ‘In Search Of Ancient Gods’ by a band called Absolute Elsewhere released in 1976. Quite a good l.p. which if I could get it on c.d. I would as it’s too much hassle to transfer it from vinyl.

  453. Dear Campfire,
    “The weekend beckons, when everything is allowed”, reminds me that, should something occur, sensational or clandestine, that evokes the words or thoughts “It is not real”……one could as Becky wrote…..go indoors, put some loud music on, OR at the very least dub it NOT REAL, not react, not be ruled by emotions, until such time when the occurance has been considered from all perspectives, and its possible INTENTION.

    Eyes are there to fool, being only lenses. Only seeing with the mind, can one accurately glean a true picture, and its contents.

    Having said that, D’s post may have negated anything occuring at all.
    Be well, Leah

  454. Dear Owain,
    Applogies re your name….should have put glasses back on first. What’s the buzzing about ?
    We make like butterflies, (chaos theory etc). or at least we thought we did.
    Leah

  455. BTW Paul, I had a copy of the 1932 pulp weird tales with “The Phoenix on the sword”. The first Conan story by Robert E. Howard in almost mint condition.

    Perhaps you believe in Crom.

    -R-

  456. Paul you should read the Biblical book of Ezekiel.

    Le us know how your 21st century mind interprets whats you find.

    -R-

  457. If you’r going to look into Sitchin, just read the first book of the earth chronicles.

    Again…Its called….”The 12th Planet”.
    The whole series is 6 books with a couple of side books like “The Lost Book Of Enki”. But the 12th planet will do in your case.

    Being as how you don’t follow archeology this book will enlighten you somewhat.

    -R-

  458. Having looked again at the Baalbek temple and read Alan F. Alford’s account it is at first, even second glance, a truly monumental[no pun intended] effort. I withdraw my pulleys and lever contention. But for Alford to suggest that it was superior technology that built it is pushing things a bit too far. With the Romans tramping all over the Near East and subsequently building on top of the temple it is hard to see how they would have missed any remaining technology. Stories and legends etc would surely have pointed them in the direction of what techniques were used. Well not legends as such but rather accounts. Even so it IS a mystery and one worth investigating. But reaching for superior or alien technology before all other earthly and human ingenuity is explored and exhausted is scientifically wrong. It is such a reaction that leads to derision.

  459. I know about Ezekiel and his apparent voyage in a space ship which enabled him to look down on the earth. I became quite excited about that when reading The Mysterious Unknown.

  460. Phoenix On The Sword is a fabulous story and much better than the original version, By This Axe I Rule a King Kull story.

  461. The Ries crater is a tremendous thing. I certainly wouldn’t liked to have been anywhere southern Germany at the time. The diamonds produced by the impact would be nice though.
    It’s going to happen again sometime though of course we don’t know when. NASA have made a start with the Near Earth Objects [NEO] project which tracks earth orbit-crossing meteroids, asteroids etc and should eventually warn us of anything that threatens in a big way. Until we develop a way of steering a big one away we’ll just have to hope nothing looms up out of the shadows.

  462. LEAH–THANK YOU SO VERY MUCH!!!!

    to leah, amit, rico, JAT, espumpin, raven, and even martin…there is absolutely nothing i can add or say, except “ditto”, and thank you all so much…yes, you all ARE A FORCE TO BE RECKONED WITH!!!!! so glad we are on the same team…

  463. Rico. If you read Alan Alford’s account of the stones at Baalbek you’ll see he consulted a British construction firm about the possibility of modern lifting equipment moving 1000-1500 tons stones. They said that they have two cranes capable of lifting that sort of mass though moving would be difficult though not impossible.
    However as I said earlier quite how the ‘Baalbekians’ did it is problematical, at present.

  464. Should something occur or change, that is individual, and therefore unique to each….each is both alone, and at liberty to choose, to accept or reject.

  465. in ian’s original text, he wrote:

    “There is no reason to think the strong magnetic field of the Earth can be influenced by any external force, let alone a non-existent planet (or was that a brown dwarf?)”.

    and in his summary, he wrote:

    “There is no evidence to suggest external forcing of internal geomagnetic dynamics of the Earth. Therefore there is no evidence of the solar cycle-geomagnetic shift connection. Don’t get me started on Planet X.”

    it is my thought that he left the door wide open for debate regarding what those external forces might be…it seems to me that the conflict occurs when we start discussing cosmic events or events we cannot conrol, versus “man-made” events which are contributing factors to the overall disintegration of planet earth…scientifically, the two may not be related…but it is those “unknown external forces” that link the two together…and opens the door to unlimited possibilities…all science and all technology started somewhere…we do not know with absolute certainty where we came from, much less where we are going…

  466. Well it’s time to go home and leave you all behind and for some of you to wallow in the misery of your delusions. I’ll be enjoying myself with a good book on astronomy full of facts.
    I’ve just sent an e-mail to the head of my city libraries congratulating her and the committee for re-classifying Velikovsky, von Daniken et al as fiction. I’ve also asked her to contact other libraries across the country to consider doing the same. If they’re as rational we can look forward to a rolling back of the forces of blind ingnorance and stupidity. One more advance for the cause of science. Hurrah.

  467. paul–they did not have “modern day cranes” when all those stone were originally lifted…what are you thinking????

  468. dearest paul–i TRULY hope that library thing works out for you…hurrah for you!!!! speaking solely for myself, i’m not quite sure i understand exactly what that will accomplished…but i am sure it makes perfect sense to you…God bless ya!!!

  469. Don’t bother Becky.

    Like he got that library to remove those books from where they were.

    I got him to retract his levers and ramps theeory furthermore proving that he made it up and that it had no valid scientific value.

    Its a start. It proves hes not infallible.
    At least he looked into it.

    Also he didn’t say that the Brit construction company said that they could move the stones. They said it may be possible.

    Absolved,
    -Rico-

  470. Dear Just a Thought,

    Just humour. In my case its stuff the Sparrow. Anyway in answer to the rest of your post. Its acedemic my dear Watson.
    Be well Sherlock

  471. Just a quick FYI. I don’t know how book stores are in the UK but here in America we have stores like Barnes & Nobles and Borders. They have sections called “Speculation” which is where books of this nature are located.

    It a shame that when the spanish explorers arrived at south america, they brought along with them persons of the church. These religious maniacs burned thousands of ancient writings, mounds and mounds of knowledge.

    But whats truly amazing is that even now in the 21st century we have people that have admittedly a book burning mentality.

    Even on this thread there is such mantality.

    Right Paul?

    -R-

  472. Dear Just a Thought,
    If your question is re my posts about this week end……Yes. Except there is always the potential for significant natural influences..e.g. incoming frequencies from galactic central.
    Leah

  473. Dear Espumpin,
    I can confirm to you that Reconstituted stone is not complicated when understood, as it is with all things. 100 years ago or even earlier an alloy known as Pinchback, was passed off sucessfully as Gold. We make Diamonds, and grow Zircons, Spinels and so many more synthetic forms of natural minerals, too many to mention.
    Likewise in Massive form. Lapis Lazuli for example. Concrete is the most primitive and simple form.
    Leah

  474. Dear Just a Thought,
    Where you are when appraising…….For me Where is also when, observing / appraising form a given vantage point.
    One could appraise the same thing from many vantage points….the when being different by default (time it takes to change location) or by design…..choosing a future point in time to appraise….either from the same vantage point or another.
    Leah

  475. Forgive me if I think too loud.
    Now is also a man made reference. There is only the future that consistantly becomes the past.
    Now exists as a memory or in a photograph….fixed and captured.

  476. Dear Just a Thought,
    Could “A Wrinkle in time” be say, A Doorway in Time ? A corridor, or Gap in time ?

    I ask this due to the word Wrinkle conjuring up the word Fold, as in Over lap in time……or is it an overlap, from time to time, depending on conditions ?
    Leah

  477. Dear Just a Thought,
    Baalbek stones / rocks, recon ….could be. Would have to test a sample to see…..the testing is not like carbon dating……approx, its accurate. Takes aGemmologist ….and before any in the campfire remind me of a past profession…..yes I could arrange it in London easily.
    Leah

  478. Dear Just a Thought,
    Yes. Like Betelgeuse, @ say 50 light years away (only an example distance), if it went super nova 50 light years ago minus a day, we would only see it tomorrow…and yet it had actually happened 50 years ago.

    Its a tough concept for many, except some like astronomers.
    Leah

  479. Messier, by formula could only catalogue a number of objects, light from which was still observable….prooving their existance then and in the near past, (dependant on distance from Earth) at his time of observations. Messier’s catalogue would not list objects that had say winked out, and all light emitted had reached Earth prior to beginning his observations.

  480. Dear Just a Thought,

    Time …ball of string….points that touch etc etc. Quantum Leap covered it in that context…on TV. H.G. Wells covered the context of time being linear.
    My gut translation for myself, was De-Bunk.

    BTW….Elsewhen, is a word used often locally to me.
    Leah

  481. Just a Thought,
    About allegiance ? Only opinion….OK ?
    To cause introspection, and inspection outwardly, re the things and concepts to which one gives allegiance, or allies with.

    In English….Check out thoroughly, analyse, before believing in, hook line and sinker, blindly.

  482. Folks…I just have to say this, at this point.

    The Speak / Jargon = a language for only the initiated, for the exclusion of all uninitiated = the ways of fraternities to keep those that are not members in the dark re their field, which gives a sense of power to the few over the many.

  483. Dear Just a Thought,
    No. Just experts in general. On the contrary, the campfire puts simply, that which others have made sound too complicated for the masses to understand. Like Michio Kaku explains in English / plain language, not jargon.
    Leah

  484. Dear espumpin,
    Got nothing re $, but watched your recommendation to Ricochet…..then wrote a post soon after, about reconstituted stone etc.
    Leah

  485. No need to get put in lunatic asylam….just listen to Pink Floyd’s… The lunatic is in my head….or something like that…its on Dark side of the moon.
    Leah

  486. Dear Just a Thought,
    Now you’ve reminded me…..I have to leave the thread for a while, to do book keeping and paperwork….beaurocratic self justification, as we must account for why we are still here, and surviving, and how……its endless, and so primitive.
    Leah…..frowning.

  487. Before I go,
    Having listened to something this evening……it would seem that, so long as the one saying the moon is made of cheese, has a slew of letters after their name, that is PHD’s etc, it must be true….they are qualified, they are experts, they are the ones that know conclusively……and are for the most part believed.
    If Jung were reading this, he would say…..Leah has some kind of complex about those with PHD’s etc etc….I would be diagnosed.
    I used “moon made of cheese” as an extreme example, because only extremes are noticed these days. I have no complex, am not envious of PHD’s in any way, because I have had the freedom to study all things, at a pace of my own choosing.

    My point is, that so long as anyone has only partial understanding, of any thing at all, they cannot claim to be a definative expert, and especially not, if the majority of their info is inherited via teaching.
    There are none that can know it all, about anything at all.

  488. Paul the quarry where the stones at Baalbek are thought to have come from was 6 miles away. The terrain there isn’t exactly the autobahn. Its rather crude and unfriendly.

    These stones had to have been moved 6 mile over nasty hostile terrain and then raised and placed in a concise manner.

    There are 3 stones that weigh around 2000 tons. This phenomenom isn’t exclusive to Baalbek. If I remember correctly theres another one that weighs just as much in Israel.

    Remember when science was offering the theory that the pyramids were the tombs of Pharoes?

    Did you know that at the big Pyramid in Giza. There were no writings inside the pyramid.

    If these buildings weren’t tombs like we now know. What were they built for?

    Paul, you mention that due to the fact that science cannot offer an explanation at this time that this does not mean that we are free to assume that it was aliens.

    This is not my assumption. It is what the actual peoples of the time left behind as an explanation.

    I don’t think Owein is saying that the internet is buzzing with talk about a geomagnetic reversal.

    Its a crap subject. The internet is buzzing about the 2012 thingy.

    Like I said in previous post. The closer we get to the date the worse it will be and don’t let something happn before then because it’ll really get hairy out here.

    I read that in Amsterdam the populace is taking 2012 very seriously and that they are investing in underground bunkers and such.

    There was a program on TV here also about the Yellowstone volcano. It mentioned the volatility but it didn’t say with any conviction that it could be any day now.

    How do you evacuate 30 US states? Of course “they” would tell anyone!!

    Leah our group brings life to this blog just like the last one.

    Keepin’ it real,

    -R-

  489. I kept an open mind to what D said as well. One of the things…….” doubt from one can cause all of you to repeat the cycles” Was that an escape clause?, then was written……
    “We ask you to highlight the names on the thread and read the posts in order if you wish to find our insight clearer. For the lightbringers brigade please maintain your faith & openmindness.” Which keeps me thinking for better or worse. Glad to see I wasn’t the only one wondering. I did highlight but there was alot missing you know should be there, the whole story is possiable to be told. Write back after tonights game.
    Espumpin

  490. Humor me this,
    For a stress free Thanksgiving:
    Stuff the turkey with prozac.
    On a different note;
    My friend paul has yet to answer where his highly scientific mind thinks it has a clue about me and where he formed this fantastic thought from.

  491. A possible means to laying out the drawings that are so large they can only be seen from the air – Kites – with people attached of course, you humans have done more outlandish/risky things in the persuit of “fun”.

  492. I do not remember as much time has passed, The Dark Tower books, makes reference to the world having “moved on”.
    Any thought on that? John Titor seemed to discribe a world that had moved on. Interesting to think about if nothing else, but in reality today is not the same as yesterday or tommorrow so in a way it gets back to perspective, where you are at when appraising things.

  493. Leah,
    what if,
    in reference to your “and grow Zircons”:
    again what If, Baalbek stones were “grown” in place?
    It is a stretch!
    Waiting to see what Ricochet Says:

  494. fixed and captured
    Yes – however – Still moving “forward”
    as in the light we see from “M113” was given off X number of years ago. Its past – our now.

  495. Sorry R man, I spaced off the fact you had mentioned the quarry six rigorous miles away. Beg your pardon, if it does ya.

  496. Wrinkle conjuring up the word Fold, as in Over lap in time
    Yes!
    Allowing us to go “elsewhen” instead of elsewhere.

  497. DId anyone check the web sites I got ppl looking for that fault line stuff. Plus I have no news about our $ updates which kill me cuz I went from 60-0 & nobody cares as long as its not on the news.
    E

  498. well I always was afraid to turn into a lunatic. But I just realised reading the last posts, something has twisted and I turned insane. An insane person does not understand the concepts of sanity any more. He only can live in his own world on insanity-fiction?
    So I will happily apply to be put into a mental hospital by tomorrow.

  499. I gotta go but its really nice to get to talk to youse in real life time once in a while. May everyones light guide them to the “campfire”
    Espumpin

  500. I forgot I read this somewhere.
    The bible was translated to english a long ass time ago. Before there were even cars.

    Imagine that someone should translate it now with a modernistic mentality.

    I’m sure the translation would differ tremendously.

    Martin, the first time the light hits you in the eyes that hard it hurts. It’ll either go away or you’ll go blind.

    Good luck dude,

    -R-

  501. I ain’t no PHD, I ain’t nobody special. I know what I know and it is what it is.

    Yeah, that sounded real cool.

    May EA bless you all,

    -Rico – Shay-

  502. Dear Owain,
    I had compared the concept of Burning books, to Re-classifying books and moving them to a different section / shelf. Within that comparison is the question, if burning books had not stopped people reading books of their choosing, then moving them around in a library, would either.
    14th 10.09am…..re read if you wish, at no point did I mention, let alone compare Paul to anyone.
    Please do not cause emnity by jumping to conclusions, and misunderstanding the content.
    Leah

  503. Ricochet ,
    It would be very helpful if the bible had been left complete without the ommissions imposed by the religion of the day.

  504. I already admittet I’m a lunatic, so where is the problem. Being blinded is a fortunate state of being.
    Wasn’t there a song by men at work
    blinded by science.
    Anyway I must have been listening to Dark side of the moon too many times. After the wall came out, I preferred this from Pink Floyd.
    How about Look at yourself from Uriah Heep?
    A fool on the hill – The Beatles
    Or A Question of Balance from Moody Blues
    or something more like
    Stairway to heaven from Led Zeppelin
    oh Ricoh thanks for your compliment I really admire you having come to such a deep level of insight about me. Finally realized it, I was trying to hide it so hard
    Martin

  505. Paul,
    thanks for the links, actually I lived not far away from the Ries for quite a few years.
    Wasn’t there a Novel about the insane people taking over the world and the sane had to be kept in asylums. It’s just a matter from what standpoint you look. Or?
    Hitler not only killed the Jews, but also the disabled and the insane Germans, or maybe it was the sane he killed and the insane remained???
    Sometimes I have the feeling to become humorous, or is it sarcastical. I can’t differentiate. Maybe I listened to much to Tom Lehrer (1960’s Professor at MIT who wrote sarcastic songs)
    Amit
    I have the photo of the Naga, (in Thai its Payanag) but where to upload? It also has a Thai title, you want me to translate it?
    Or shall I send it to You? Once you see it you can compare it with
    video biggest snakes in the world
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Np8Ki4VEEVk
    Martin

  506. I meant the net is buzzing with this argument. well parts of it are.
    I think one or two of you have done Paul a huge disservice by comparing him to Hitler. He has never said you should burn Velikovsky or Von Daniken just move them from one section to another. It is somethng that happens in libraries all the time. Fromhis other posts I expect you’ll get roasted and so you should be. Very poor of you. If you’re going to comment on peoples posts then have the courtesy to read and analyse fully what is written. If you still think he’s advocating burniing books then maybe you are as deluded as him thinks. You owe him an apology for that at least.

  507. PJ ole pal, take Owains’ words to heart;

    “Very poor of you. If you’re going to comment on peoples posts then have the courtesy to read and analyse fully what is written.”

  508. In the interest of detente,

    The depictions at Abydos, Egypt.

    Which is true:

    Are they ancient, as per scientists research ?
    Are they a hoax, put there / created just prior to discovery ?

  509. Dear Owain,
    Would I be correct that your name is Welsh ?

    Also I’d be interested in your opinion re the age of the depictions at Abydos.
    Leah

  510. Dear Mammi,
    Good one. The second line is the one that precludes science to really see…..but some are learning.
    Leah

  511. thank you Owain, it just hits the spot.
    If Ricoh so much adheres to the bible, why not adhere to the sermon on the mount?
    I just follow the logic now… If we do not try to incorporate the sermon on the mount into our daily activities, including posting on this blog, are we then not those who go through the broad gate that leads to destruction?
    I do not dismiss the Bible, but do not adhere to it. Ezekiel is interesting, Hiob is intersting and so is the sermon on the mount. But what is lacking for my taste is the explanations why should we. Just the logic behind is missing. And I do submit to Logic or Reasoning.
    Be well Martin

  512. Dear Ian O’Neill,
    thank you so much. I read all the relating articles. and scanned through some of the blogs. And I saw that sometimes you comment. Your comments are cool, so are your articles. Your explanations are excellent reasoning and for me completely logical. I have no doubt about what you say. As I said in my last comment I submit to Logic and Reasoning.
    About six years ago my teacher, a British Electrical Engineer told my about the Mayan phrophecy. about 2012. And he told me that this will certainly come true. I looked at him very astonished, but I had no way to argue with him. He passed away 4 years ago, otherwise I surly would have printed your articles for him to read.
    But now I do have a question, in one of your comments you said, it was on the planet X is not niburu, that we cannot foretell or predict the future.
    Now the question, isn’t our science mostly about trying to predict future events, based on previous events? Like supervolcanos, or asteroids hitting the earth. It stated somewhere, either in the wikipedia about meteors, or a link from them that it is likely 1:47 that within the next 100 years a meteor diameter of 500 m will hit the earth-quite some impact.
    About the supervolcano Yellowstone Park, BBC said, I got the link from Paul, that the cycle of eruption is 600,000 years so now its overdue 40,000 years and can erupt anytime. If it erupts we will have a nuclear winter for about 3 years, that will lead to near extinction of all live forms. Then I looked it up under yellowstone supervolcano and there it states that the cycle is 650,000 years. That means we would still have 10,000 years to go. But we do have only two points in eruption history. You know we can draw a straight line that will mean 650,000 years or any other bicubic function, that would leave it completely open to when
    That were just two examples of predicting the future. Weather, hurricanes, volcanic eruption, earthquakes, they are studied very hard to be able to predict. future events.
    What do you think? How should I interpret your statment, or did I misunderstood it.
    Maybe your next article is about Yellowstone or any of the other supervolcanos is not going to erupt in 2012?

  513. Sorry mistake bicubic will give us only one date, but there are many ways to fit a function
    y = a + bx + cx2 + dx3 + …
    or log or ln or e functions
    All of them will give us a different time of eruption. I haven’t done it for nearly 20 years, but I’m sure I could find a function that predicts the eruption to be in 2012.

  514. Just A Thought.
    HAving read Paul’s posts I think he’s the one who is owed the apologies. Where possible he’s analysed and tried to sort out the science you and others have presented among all the flummery of pseudo-science and outrageous claims for aliens building ancient monuments. He has possibly overstated the possibilities of current science but did withdraw his claim for levers etc building Baalbek.
    If I may say so you undermine your own cases by presenting legitimate science and ideas with the likes of Velikosky’s garbage. You continually poke at Paul and fail to see that he hasn’t any problem with you and your regarding aliens “out there”. His main contention, as far as I can see, is that you have never presented hard facts to back your claims. Point of information. Posting links to You Tube and self referential sites that claim to show the evidence is not proof not matter how hard and loud you shout.
    Sorry to speak for you Paul but you sometimes seem slow to respond or unwilling to.

  515. martin–welcome to the “lunatic fringe”!!!! it’s not so lonely out here any more…i’ve grown VERY FOND of it!!!

    owain–there were many “different sermons” from many “different mounts”…to lay claims to only one serves a huge disservice and injustice to them all…

    on the financial front, espumpin–read an article this morning on “Alex Jones’ Prison Planet” website, written by Gerald Celente, CEO of Trends Research Institute…might be worth a look-see…our biggest enemy right now is the DENIAL that things have gone horribly wrong…he sees a financial collapse and a “revolution” of sorts coming…campaign promises CANNOT/WILL NOT not be kept…middle and lower class will not be happy–at all—
    …just some more food for thought…

    love and “good mojo” to you all…

  516. Becky. WHat on earth are you talking about? Sermons on the mount?We’re talking science here NOT religion. For goodness sake get a grip. By all means talk religion if you must but there are plenty of sites where that can be discussed. I can’t see why you’re mixing that in with my defence of Paul.

  517. wain–just an afterthought–science is made up of “realms of possibility”…unknown variables…since history does repeat itself, and since none of us were here the previous time around, why should we not NOW consider ALL realms and ALL variables???

    technology should not dwarf our imaginations…when things fall our of our realm of understanding, there remains a huge unexplained file called “what if”…for whatever reason, that file remains unopened and unexplored…those who want to explore it and want to know what’s in it become reclassified…where’s the science in that????

  518. Martin,
    Don’t fall into the trap of trying to manipulate the numbers in an attempt to find a time of eruption for 2012. There are no end of ways of doing it and the self-styled lunatic fringe . Becky above, will seize it and run claiming, “There you are it was evident all the time”.

  519. Sorry Becky. You’re still not making any sense at all. Can’t see where you’re going with this.

  520. owain–my most sincere apologies–ir was martin who made reference to the sermon on the mounts–not you!!! please forgive me…a bad mistake on my part…at this time, i will redirect to martin…

  521. owain–all i’m saying is that science –for me–is not cut and dry—for me–all things should be considered. there are things that we know, things that we think we know, and things we cannot explain…for me, science cannot and does not explain away everything….there are greater forces working that are much bigger than ourselves…it is those forces that science will never explain…that’s all i’m saying…it is because of that fundamental belief that others feel i have no place on this thread…and that’s okay..i still maintain that everything is relative.

  522. @ Owein You continually poke at Paul and fail to see that he hasn’t any problem with you and your regarding aliens “out there”. His main contention, as

    Owain, do you kow how to read? I mean, how can you say that Pual hasn’t said anything against our SUPPORTING, NOT PRESENTING ancient astronaut theories?

    Paul has constantly derised our theory, furthermore he resorted to labeling us “knuckledraggers” and the like.

    We didn’t make up the alien theory. We support it. Paul like, obviously yourself, don’t support this theory and thats fine. I can openly critisize science and you and Paul can critisize our theories but don’t sit there and tell us that Paul hasn’t been insulting, condescending and a total asshole about this because all you’re doing is categorizing yourself as an asshole.

    Owein have you had any scientifc theory published? Have you been credited with anything scientific? Has Paul?

    Yet you come in here and arrogantly offer derisive critizism about others published works. There are many authors that support the ancient astronaut theory. Are you prepared to prove here and now that you are better informed than all of these authors?

    Like Ian says…”I thought not”

    This site has an admin. If the admin feels that our post don’t belong here he/she has the authority and can make a decision to remove the post. I have not seen anything removed have you?

    Neither Paul nor yourself are the ultimate authority here and you NEED to learn what I’m sure your mothers taught you at a very early age.

    Respect.

    I’m sure that your mothers told you that this is something thats earned.

    Paul hasn’t even earned the respect I’ve shown so far. If you read the post you are aware that I have asked him on more than one occasion to desist the name calling and he justified it by proclaiming that his frustration at his inability to respect what others have put forth has not allowed him to govern himself accordingly.

    Don’t get me wrong Owein, you can write what you want here. But if you begin to generalize people due to their beliefs I personally will classify your ass with Hitler and any other overbearing tyrant in history.

    You call me a knuckledragger and I will tell you to kiss my ass bro, its that simple.

    You better go back and get it right.
    I don’t carae what you believe in but if you think its right to call me names or say that someone else is, then may man, you are wrong and I will address you thus.

    All over the world in every culture there are so called myths and scriptures and text that describe beings that came from above and interfered with man.

    You and Paul can choose to look further into what scholars have to say about this but you can’t dismiss anything.

    The nerve. The arrogance.

    Science changes. There was a time when it was scientifically proven and widely accepted that black men were inferior to white.

    The science you support is founded on trial and error like that. I imagine that should you and Paul been around back then you would have been spewing the same garbage that today we know is not true. Oh and Owein? How long ago was it that science PROVED that black men were inferior? Not nthat long ago huh?

    Don’t be stupid. Things change as we uncover (discover) what is hidden.

    Neither you nor Paul can claim to know all the myteries of this world. If you want to talk science then not you nor Paul can claim to understand 1/1000 of a percent the mysteries of this world.

    Nuff said,

    -R-

  523. Oh dear Rico. What a pity you had to resort to name calling so soon. If this is how you greet newcomers to what is supposed to be a site where rational discussion takes place there is no hope for you. Also I think it is quite shocking that you try to take over a site that isn’t really geared to you and your irrational theories and THEN insult me and Paul and by inference the de-bunkers of alien intervention/Velikovsky/Von DaikenCharroux [thanks for that one Paul] etc.
    We WILL be back.

  524. There are so many things that science got wrong initially in the past that it is truly ignorant to accept everything at face value.

    Science also encompasses so many fields. Medicine, health, space, archeology, everything basically merits scientific analysis and classification.

    Sometimes years or decades go by and we acquire new data that proves that what was once thought to be scientically correct is in fact totally erroneous.

    I like science. I trust science. But the subject of which we speak namely ancient astronauts has not been given enough research.

    In the past when controversial theories arose there was always one idiot or another that derided the new theory.

    It is scientifically possible for Paul and Owein to be similar to the idiots of the past.

    Simply put. It is not impossible that ancient astronauts visited earth. With or without proof one cannot without reasonable doubt say that it is impossible.

    Owein, after living a life in whish you deride others beliefs because they don’t agree with your own. In the event that the other persons version proves to be correct what do you say?

    You offer a detraction? How can you detract the personal insults that you used while deriding that persons beliefs?

    Do you then call yourself a knuckledragger? Do you then consider yourself an diot?

    Do you begin to understand where I’m trying to lead you?

    Tolerance is important here. You shouldn’t even address a persons belief if you can’t do it without resorting to personal insults.

    Paul comes in here and asks for proof or something that lends credence to what we’re saying however he himself or his much ballyhoed science can admittedly offer no explanation for things here on earth such as the stones at Baalbek.

    None of you guys are better than anyone else here so try to comport yourselves in a correct manner or maybe you should consider leaving this site. Look at the last 20 post and see how many of them are about the earths geomagnetic reversal or look at the first 20 post and count the same.

    Owein there is no section in any library called “the garbage bin” is there?

    Its agood thing that we save books just to show how old science looked at things in the past and to see how far we’ve come.

    Read an old science book and see how erroneous the theories were.

    Then REMEMBER that the science of today is BASED on the foundation of the old science, in other words it learns from its mistakes and there were sooooo many!!!

    What was consideed science yesterday is considered stupidity today.

    How stupid do you want to appear tomorrow?

    Based on what I’ve read from the Bible and from translations by scholars of the stories in the sumerian tablets I choose to believe what I believe about ancient astronauts, Based on what I know about how world leaders and government works with reagards to sanctioning certain knowledge “for the protection of the masses” I choose to accept that there are too many unasnwered questions and too many varying stories describing ancient astronauts.

    Like I said before. Either Owein or Paul can tell us all how the sumerians came to have what science today describes an impossible “explosion of civilization” in the near east at the time in which it did.

    Then, being that you knuckleheads can’t expalin it, I’d like you also to take into consideration that according to you, not only did they have all these first, but had the time to create a whole realigion with a huge pantheon and stories about their created gods.

    You have got to be kidding me!

    The Piri Riis map alone should suffice as proof. This map has the shape of being drawn as if the view was from above, you can see this in the way the land shape takes a turn as if it were on a globe. Not only that but there is no ice on antartica. During living history there has always been ice there.

    When your science offers explanations for all of this unexplanable history you will have the proof that you are asking us for.

    You cannot scientifically discard the sumerian stories. Even if they were myths they offer insights of the peoples existance of the times.

    I could go looking in the web for a slew of past scientific errors. Should I do that? Do you want me to list 100 different idiotic thinkings that science backed in the past? You preach science with almost religious fervency as if science as the ultimate word on any matter. You put yourslef in the same shoes as the idiots that believed the initial erroneous stuff right?

    You guys are unreal, you learn science but you can’t even think for yourselves.

    Pathetic is a better way to describe people that think like you guys. Beacuse its easy to feel sorry for anyone that buys something hook line and sinker without first looking at all the facts.

    Tell me Owein, why are there human kings on earth? Who started kingship? Why are these families royal? Whats royal? How did this start?

    Go ask science and get back to me when you can.

    Silly boys with their microscopes.

    -Blessed,

    -Ricochet-

  525. Hi people. Raul here. Been looking for some answers or for one answer. Some time ago 20years or so a friend who knew I liked ancient civilisations and unexplained stuff sent me a lines that she thought would interest me. Not sure where they were from but knowing my interest she said they were ancient – Hittite? Sumerian? Hebrew? Other? Ideas anybody?

    With white arms wrapped around me
    Locked in a cold embrace
    We slept for more than a 1000 years
    We awoke in the land of gold
    Where the king of the world was a being
    Who was man, woman and beast.
    The land boiled with strange flowers
    and the sun set in the east
    You and I were as the heroes of old
    Showing virtue and skill
    And we rode to a land at the edge of the world
    To a dark tower that rose upon a hill.

    Year on year the greedy tide
    Swelled from the west unchallenged
    And with impatient fret
    Gorged on the human banquet
    And many with mad eyes
    Stared gibbering at the white hot sky
    Foul birds and creatures circled above us
    Shadowing the living and the dead
    Southward to where the blood-red sun
    Sickens at noon in foul vapours
    We stumbled with the fear-tamed herds
    Of savage beasts while homeless birds fly overhead
    Southward, southward, southward.

  526. Owein, you seem to be choosing what you read above. Start with your boy Pauls first post. Or better yet go back to my first post and see who started the name calling.

    You labeled yourself when you decided to say here that Paul wasn’t deriding our theories and that he was ok with his insults.

    He ADMITTED that he can’t stop the insults!!

    I don’t care if you came back or not dude. That was a bad impression of Arnold Schwarzennegar, nobody lauged.

    You’re a follower. Go on then, follow Paul.
    I look into the works of pioneers that have the balls to write what they believe knowing and disregarding what people like you and Paul think or say.

    Someday there will be a reconcilliation and we will then see who is right. Its all BS right now because you can’t prove nothing and I can’t prove nothing. But I have faith, how do you like that word? I have faith that we will know what happened back then and it will be shown that we had visitors.

    You can jump up and down all you like and accuse me of calling you names I don’t give a rats ass what you think to be frank. You’re just a shadow of a Paul.

    Come on dude, bring it, I’m here all day and I have plenty of pot and phillies and there aint no good college football games on TV so I’ll answer all of your rhetoric.

    Yeah baby!!!

    Cosmic,

    -R-

  527. A famous gentleman, for both his works on aliens, and climate change, wrote not long ago, about “visitors”…….
    The announcement of their presence will cause a great cacophony (discord), which is what they want, and the more freedom we have to react, the better. They are here to experience something new, which is extraordinarily difficult for them to do.

    I assume nothing…..but lets ask…..would the world be worse off if people practiced self control ? Would the world not be better off if there was less emnity, crime and war, due to self control ? Less greed…even ?

    One might even avoid some unknown danger as a result.

  528. Yup….ain’t that the truth….if practiced by all.
    Only with the applicable incentives, will all consider and possibly exercise self control.

    I hope they don’t choose only the hard way.

  529. Owain, you didn’t include the most read of all the authors on ancient astronauts in that list.

    Sitchin.

    Oh wait!! You’re not familiar with his work are you? No you’re not. You haven’t read shit about ancient astronauts. You’re simply kissing Pauls ass because he has a british accent.

    Dude, I tried to deal with you guys on the level. You know. Put forth my thoughts and such. But you guys are what I call web bullies. You elevate yourselves and get all puffed up by insulting others and derding their opinions.

    You noticed how Paul took back his “levers and ramps ‘Ol boy” theory?

    The reason he put that forth in the first place was because he was uninformed. He said he took a look again and he recanted his original theory.

    The spontaneous way in which you animals for want of a better word answer the questions I put forth leads me to believe that you don’t reaserch. You offer your opinions.

    Your opinion stinks Owein. They stink of Paul.
    Get your own. When I post something at least use google so that you can offer a better rebuttal. You don’t want to appear so full of yourself that you come up with levers and ramps do you?

    Read Sitchin. Read all of his books. You’re in need of alternate imput.

    Keepin it real,

    -R-

  530. Damn! Owain I’m sorry. Did you say “we’ll be back” as if speaking for Paul?

    LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Dude, dude, dude. thats truly pathetic.

    I’ve always walked alone.

    -R-

  531. Dear Just a thought,
    It reminds me of an episode of a TV show….Humans are offered a vaccine that prolongs life very appreciably, and perfect health into the bargain. Looks like solid 24ct Gold.
    Problem was that the vaccine also contained a drug that caused sterility……
    All that glitters is not gold.
    TV’s good for perspectives…..and there’s plenty of them.
    Be well, Leah

  532. I can speak for myself. I don’t need Paul to speak for me and I doubt if he needs my backing. When I said we’ll be back I meant the forces of reason and mature, scientific debate will be back. Ancient gods and aliens , ancient or modern, can’t be discussed as they haven’t yet been proved. There WILL be others of my persuation contributing once they’ve done with the serious stuff on their own blogs/offices/labs etc and want a good laugh and a poke at you. I remind you once again; this is a site for the discussion of science not the blatherings of frightened little boys who take solace in myths, legends and escapist nonsense. You can take it as read that I too have a British accent. And to use a good old fashioned British word you wanker!. As you’ve read your bilble you’ll know the reference from Onan.

  533. @ Owain Also I think it is quite shocking that you try to take over a site that isn’t really geared to you and your irrational theories and THEN insult me and Paul and by inference the de-bunkers of alien intervention/Velikovsky/Von DaikenCharroux [thanks for that one Paul] etc.
    We WILL be back.

    Owain see where you write that I insult you and Paul by the INFERENCE THE DE-BUNKERS.

    That shit don’t make no sense. Your english sucks or you’e semi literate take your choice.

    This is not a misspelling. It reflects that you’re an idiot.

    If you read the way you write then don’t bother reading Sitchin because you wouldn’t understand anything.

    Sorry dude, but you’re a dummy.

    You want to talk shit Owain, this thread is in english. Learn english first then, and we can continue discussing aliens and how you kiss pauls ass.

    You will notice that my earliers post were not worded as they are now. You guys have brought me down to your level but its ok. I came from this level as I was raised in NYC.

    I’m Puerto Rican with green eyes and light hair so I look like a white american or white european. In NYC I had to deal with older white american men that spoke to me in private about blacks referring to them using the N word.

    In other words. I’ve dealt with animals before. You guys aren’t going to chase me away and furthermore we can share insults to see who blinks first.

    If you don’t believe anything in the bible and you can’t accept the ancients text, then you are unequipped to debate the maya calendar or a 2012 doomsday/ new begining with me or anyone that is somewhat familair with these theories.

    You are simply missing info.
    Understand that the tie-in at the top of the threads subject to the earths geomagnetic reversal with 2012 links it with tha maya calendar as there is no such subject about a geomagnetic reversal using the 2012 date unless you include what some call prophesy.

    Idiots, get your shit together.

    See. I can sound just like Paul, wanna kiss my white ass too Owain?

    Silly rabbits, trix are for kids,

    -R-

  534. We can and do look for effects that leave, say a finger print. We can’t analyse the upheaval that caused, say Fold Mountain ranges, but we can deduce.
    Geologically we can use depth of, and layers, to deduce periodicity of events.

    Ice core sections let us know what the atmosphere contained in the past. Really its a case of, the deeper one digs, the more one finds and learns about conditions, and is able to see historical effects.

  535. If you would like to could back and read carefully what I actually said you will see that I wrote, ‘ Also I think it is quite shocking that you try to take over a site that isn’t really geared to you and your irrational theories and THEN insult me and Paul and by inference the de-bunkers of alien intervention/Velikovsky/Von DaikenCharroux [thanks for that one Paul] etc

    Notice the the ‘AND’ following ‘PAULl’ and the words ‘BY INFERENCE’. It makes all the difference. But don’t let that put you off. What is it the American say? Ah yes. Bring it on.

  536. I meant of course to write, “If you would like to GO back” not “could back”. That plainly doesn’t make sense. Actually as it doesn’t make sense it might have been written by Rico or one of the other twits here.

  537. Further, we have what we have to date, more in future, of Artifacts. The dating methods may not be accurate, but the Artifacts exist, they are tangible evidence of something. It is for our generation to decipher them….if not then the advice they convey, and accounts of past times and events, will not be at our disposal, which could be of great help and insight.

  538. Owain are you seriously telling me that we can’t discuss aliens because they haven’t been proven to exist?

    Dude, I can say anything I want. I can say that the alien gazoooo in the flintstones cartoon made the earth. This does not give Paul the right to insult me.

    Not you nor Paul has the RIGHT to tell me what my opinion sholuld be or how to think.

    I don’t know how they raise you boys back in europe but here in America we can basically say anything we want and if someone calls us names usually theres a punch or two thrown. Perhaps you and Paul are smallish men that come here to insult people because no one can put their hands on you in here. I imagine that you’re compensating for your inability to use your insults face to face in real life with someone in your area that doesn’t agree with you.

    I can understand that. Nevertheless man, again you’re an idiot if you think I can’t post ancient astronauts here. You don’t own the site and you didn’t make the rules. In fact the only reason you even say that shit is because thats the path that Paul has taken.

    You’re a small man and a follower.

    Kiss my ass man. You cant tell me what to do.

    -Ricochet-

  539. Dude, don’t try to fix that shit. It makes no sense no matter how you say it. I don’t know what the hell you were trying to say but the authors you mention are not de-bunkers of alien intervention they support it.

    Stop, stop it. You just dig yourself deeper.

    Owain do you know where your rights end?

    Your rights end where mine begin. If you have the right to post in here so do I.

    Any rights you have in here so do I.

    I have the right to an opinion and not you nor paul has the right to post personal insults. Now that both you and paul have waived these rights by acting in such manner it opens the way for me to call you whatever I may consider you and your opinions. Morons comes to mind.

    Animals with with blinders that have no peripheral vision. You only see whats in front of you.

    I didn’t start the name calling. I’m simply adopting and showing paul what happens when something that he started evolves.

    Paul is a puffed up proud of nothing idiot that thinks he shits roses and you are his Robin, a sidekick.

    Again, you can both kiss my ass.

    -Rico-

  540. Many think in terms of something, being 1 thing that will happen in say 2012. Apart from the fact that there is always something happening, and not one after another, instead simultaneously, is that each thing or things, is the effect /effects of the last, and the cause / causes of the next.
    We are a tiny speck of dust, in our frame of reference, along with our other companions in this solar system, in comparison to the Milky Way.
    Life for Earth as life on Earth, is a rythmic succession of cycles, which can and do get altered or interupted, depending on our interactions with the influences of the other specks of dust, sometimes even interacting physically.
    Which is a description of everyday life really, just here, not in space.

  541. Owain see how you refer to “other twits here”?

    Thats what I mean, you call people twits because they don’t share your beliefs.

    The word wanker don’t mean shit in america. It sounds stupid to us. You’re what we in america refer to as an asshole.

    This is the definition of your character as you present it here, an asshole.

    I mean, no one here has insulted you yet you call us twits. You’ve adopted that attitude from paul.

    I know that you at least have some sense. Not a lot, but some. That being the case I know that you realize how stupid you sound calling people names here for no reason other than you don’t agree with them.

    Its just a matter of time now for you to be gone from here. You should be embarrased at how genuinely stupid you sound. If you’re not embarrased or shamed by your nonsense then maybe the small amout of sense I gave you credit for is non- existant and you really are just a dummy.

    Either way I don’t expect you to last here. Do the honorable thing and save face. Leave now, one blind arrogant brit is enough for any blog don’t you think?

    Here Owain, I’ll give you some stuff to keep you busy in google ok so you don’t get too bored. You can also follow the blog just don’t post man. I’m helping you here ok?

    Here google this :

    Anunnaki

    Fallen Angels

    Elohim

    tablets found at nippur

    From there you can just follow links as they interest you.

    Stop embassing yourself and your countrymen/ladies. Its not fair.

    Go and sin no more,

    -R-

  542. Read it again, fool.
    “…. THEN insult me and Paul, and by inference the de-bunkers OF of alien intervention/Velikovsky/von Daniken/Charroux….”.
    You see what I’ve said is insult me, Paul and the serious scientists who do the de-bunking of the people who say aliens have built whatever they’re supposed to have built. These people would include Velikovsky von Daniken etc. It’s not difficult to follow really. Although it obviously is but I don’t know how to put it any more simply for you to understand. We don’t usually do differentiated explanations.

  543. Paul only post when hes at work. He’ll post again on monday. On weekends you won’t hear from him. Hes actually become a regular with this pattern. He post on weekdays during working hours. The man works for a living.

    I can accept paul and his attitude what drove me insane today is that paul post in here and actually shouts out for followers and all of a sudden he has a sidekick spewing garbage.

    This can be contagious and I felt that I had to confront the first assclown to answer pauls call.

    Paul I feel bad that it hadda be Owain that answered. Go ahead and keep shouting for someone to help address our nuttiness. But lets get you someone that makes sense and can think for him/herself. I’m sure you’ll agree that you got a bum deal with Owain here.

    I’m sure someone’ll show up that writes stuff thats more readable and makes some sense.

    If not I’ll just by inference de-bunkers of you all!!!!

    -R-

  544. In Britain wanker means someone who plays with him/herself – a masturbator i.e. wastes ones time.
    I’ll let Paul do the explaining I’ll carry on with the debunking.
    How big is small in America? 6’2″ ex-rugby player? Is that big.
    Ricochet? Interesting name. Presumably from bouncing off the walls of your rubber room no doubt.

  545. Follow the yellow brink road, Follow,Follow,Follow,FollowFollow the yellow brick road……………..Dncagga-Jmarg-Xflpd.
    http://www.greatdreams.com/masters/ascended-masters.htm
    “What if”……………….
    What if your all right?
    What if your blinded by you sight?
    What if all you want to know,
    Stops the the growth,
    but keeps you growing old.
    Instead of being humble,
    And from learning by example.
    You choose to fight & scream,
    Not to agree to disagree,
    & help each other be free.
    Ninhursag

  546. Owain, you still here son?

    You don’t know how to use Google?

    Do you have a little sister? Maybe she can help you?

    You don’t seem to understand rights.

    YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO TELL ME WHAT TO BELIEVE.

    You keep believing in your wrong today right tomorrow science and I’ll believe what I want ok?

    I won’t call you names and I won’t refer to your beliefs as stupid ok? Can you reciprocate?

    Also explain to me why I can’t post here about ancient astronauts.

    Should we take a vote?

    If we have a vote and I lose I’ll leave. If I win you leave hows that?

    Maybe Paul will be interested in this also.

    You can get rid of one of the twits like this. Unless the people here say that you guys are the twits.

    Like we americans say, bring it.

    Interested in that bet Owain?

    I don’t care either way. I wouldn’t want to be a site that tells me what I can opine.

    So your call dude. We can call a vote.
    If the people here say I can’t post about ancient astronauts I leave but if they say I can…You leave….For good too.

    I gotta go shopping but I’LL BE BACK. I speak for myself.

    So when I come back I expect you should have had sufficient time to think about this. We can do it over a week or whatever, this way you can campaign.

    You tell me little man,

    Democratic,

    -R-

  547. I’m actually enjoying all this name calling. Rico seems to have issues and it looks as though Owain and to some extent Paul have really got under his skin. I put this in just as a though – could he be unsure of his beliefs??
    I’m looking through the previous posts to see what’s REALLY happening here. What I have seen it looks like it’s a draw so far between Owain and Paul and the people in Rico’s corner – Amit, Espumpin and Just a Thought. Not sure yet which side Martin is on though I have my thoughts. Good fun.

  548. I may take sides but not just yet. Any idea where the rest of the respondents are. I thought they wowuld have something to say. Where’s Martin, Global Scanner? Where’s Raul? His poem/story was interesting, sort of.

  549. Isn’t American football where they scrimmage and one guy comes right up behind another guy and puts his hands between the others legs? V homo-erotic.

  550. This is really very simple. I offer the theory that there were ancient scientist base on what I’ve read from certain authors.

    They don’t believe this because they claim theses a lack of evidence. In other words they ask me to offer proof.

    They don’t seem to understand that the lack of evidence isn’t evidence in their favor.

    Its just undiscovered. The only issue I have is that these guys seem to think its ok to call us names because of what we believe.

    If anyone follows the post they will find me asking several times to stop the name calling.

    At this time I figure that the only language that they understand is the one that they’re speaking…Insults…So I speak to them in insults.

    Stephen if you say that you don’t share the ancient alien theory its ok. I may direct you to some things considered possible evidence but if you come back without looking at what I directed at you and debunk me erroneously the way Paul did then dude. Its really simple isn’t it?

    At that point my position is to ask you to kiss my ass. After you talk all this know it all shit and then you take a real look and come back and tell me that your alledged theory was wrong what am I to say?

    I say you’re fulla crap don’t I?

    Take a look at the post. You’ll find idiotic condescending theories without research thrown out there by Paul who later recants.

    This is because these people talk without knowing shit.

    They talk about the stars and yet they know nothing about the history of the early civilizations.

    The we have Owain. If you actually study the thread you’ll find this lackey is trying to ingratiate hinself with paul as if by doing so paul would in return grant him cybersex or soemthing.

    Its retarded.

    Its like me saying Stephen you don’t know what you’re talking about. Theres no such thing as neutral take a stand you wimp wanker. Makes no sense does it?

    You do what the hell you want I have no right to tell you how to think.

    I stand by my beliefs alone. I don’t need anyone here or elsewhere to stand behind me egging me on.

    Its a matter of “levers and ramps ol’ boy”

    You tell me Stephen, would I be correct in telling you what you can write here with regards to a 2012 prophesy of an end time either by axis shift, polar shift, meteor, or anything that I want?

    is it your right to tell me to go somewhere else to post about these things?

    Better yet Stephen. Do this. Look at the subject matter at the top of the page before you read the thread and then come back and tell me post something about the actual subject matter. See where that leaves you man.

    Expanatory,

    -Rico-

  551. You know theres a great fighter from Wales name of Joe Calzaghe.

    I’m an avid boxing fan. This guys is going down in history as one of the best pound for pound fighters in the history of boxing.

    That being said. I don’t know anything else about Wales.

    -R-

  552. You may be interested to know that a Welshman, Richard ap Meurig, was the first westerner to land in America. Hence the name America from Meurig.
    I’ll get back to you about what you said previous to the Calzaghe post

  553. Stephen, the superbowl which is the championship game in american football.

    The superbowl holds like 9 of the first 10 spots in record breaking TV audience.

    In other words when they play the superbowl. The world stops to watch.

    I don’t see anything about a Rugbybowl. I coudn’t even name a rugby team. Thats just my culture or lack thereof. But I know football and I know the league. And theres nothing comparable and I nclude major league baseball.

    The average american football team is valued at a little bit under a billion dollars.

    Soccer (notice I don’t call it football) sucks to me. Its boring. Its usually a 0-0 game and I feel like I just kissed my sister.

    I may watch world cup finals but thats it.

    Boxing, american football, and basketball in that order. The rest is filler.

    -Rico –

  554. I had hoped that somebody would have made response to my post instead of silly argeuements. Lots of negative energy and vibration here at present. Not good things to happen.

  555. See I didn’t know that about a welshman.

    But Stephen, we shouldn’t be posting about this because we have to post about the geomagnetic crap remember?

    Calzaghe is a hero in Wales today. This I know. That man can run for office over there and win.

    -R-

  556. all I see is messages about boxing and football and basket ball. I would like answers to questions posed. This is a site where questions asked and answeered yes?????

  557. Basically the subject matter should be is anything natural going to happen that could have been known to the maya and caused them to make a calendar with the natural end date in mind. Hence the 2012 date for a geomagnetic shift.

    It could be anuthing though. The maya didn’t nessesarily predict catastrphe on 2012 via a geomagnetic shift.

    In fact they say in their text that this age will end by fire. Go figure. I like the volcano theory better as an end time event. This would corroborate what Raven has bought up about supervolcanoes and their impending eruptions in the very near future.

    All this by or before 2012 which would represent the begining of a new age.

    This is all legend. But with the astounding artifacts these ancient peoples left behind I’m under the impression that their scriptures should be studied a little more diligently.

    Its like the movie close encounters of the third kind when the french are in india and the people are chanting that sound. They ask the people from where the sound came and thousands of hands pointed at the sky all together.

    Look at where the hands are pointing is all I ask.

    -R-

  558. Ask away, someone will try to provide an answer if possible.

    Sorry boys, you got caught up in this crap. I apologize.

    -R-

  559. I wondered where the poem/story I mentioned that my friend sent me could be from. How ancient is it? She said may be Hittite. Perhaps it is old as that or from Sumerian people that are spoken of here. Lots of clever writers send ideas to this group so I am thinking there is someone here who will tell me and others who said it first. I may ask about the stars and cosmologies later.

  560. That was easy, glad to be of help.

    You know the sumerians didn’t write good things about their gods. They wrote a lot about the way these gods treated man.

    It wasn’t until much later that the Hebrews re-wrote the sumerian stories and introduced new characters and twisted the sumerian epics to make it look as if man was the bad one and god was good. They also created monetheism. In other words they attributed the sumerian stories about what the gods did and credited all to one god and called him Yahweh.

    Pretty funny really. Judaism is the base religion of Christianity and apparently Islam being they too share a monetheistic system.

    The first epics before the bible before the hebrew language were from sumer.

    Anyway this all ties in with ancient races worldwide and the maya had their own epics.
    All of these races that went before the monetheistic religions credited their gods with everything that was good that we found as they taught them everything.

    This is why I believe that the maya calendar ending 2012 is something of a sign left to us by these beings.

    Say what you want just don’t call me names or use derogatory comments to dispell my belief and its all good.

    I can offer lots more detail but lets see what comes up.

    Don’t drink and Drive,

    -R-

  561. I don’t even go as far as to bring up the planet of crossing which the sumerians wrote about as the origin of these beings because that opens the door to planet x.

    It was called Nibiru in sumerian which is supposed to mean ” to cross” or something to do with crossing. This is also the reason that Sitchin attributes a 3600 year eliptical orbit to this “planet of crossing” . This in Sitchins readings was the cause for the deluge that destryed the first men and left only the biblical Noah and his ark mates.

    I’m not making this stuff up, its out there.

    -R-

  562. Hi guys. Just thought I’d drop in as I was surfing. Picked up the news about this site and the tussle that’s going on here elsewhere on the net and thought I’d see what all the fuss was about.
    Wow Rico. You are one feisty cat. If I may chip here, and please tell me to keep my opinions to myself, but I think you are taking on the man in Owain. He’s a real heavy dude. I’ve knocked around the net for almost as long as its been going man, and the planet for even longer, and Owain and Paul seem to be the real deal, ya dig??!! Yeh???
    I’m not saying I agree with everything they say but shit man, they are packing some heavy science and heavy comments. I’ve seen them dealing in other places. Get me? They are MEAN muthas. I’m telling you guy you don’t want to mess with them. Not trying to scare you bro just give a word to the wise. You may be a major contributor here and feel so sure of your stuff but sometimes keeping your own council and, as they said during your war of independence, keep your powder dry, [your day may come] but these guys are serious movers and shakers. They know stuff, dig??
    Off somewhere else now. Could be back soon but a moving target is harder to hit or at least pin down. Laterzzzzzz

  563. Oh well now we know, these guys are ringers and lovers from way back!!

    Thats cool man, thanks for the heads up.
    As you can see though. Already our “heavy hitter” Paul has been caught with his pants around his ankles with his now infamous “levers and ramps ol’ boy”.

    Mr. Natural I’ve dealt with bullies before. In my experience theyre mostly bags of wind. You just can’t let them get away with shit.

    Let them explain the crap the write.
    Paul is the smart one of the two. Owain is just a 6′ 2″ lackey with no balls.

    Aparently he evolved from an Enki creative error. bad DNA you know? Follower status and all that, chip chip and here here and all that crap.

    Read my post. I asked them both to kiss my ass. They ain’t that bad.

    They seem to be under the impression that a current lack of evidence is proof of something.

    Silly boys. I ain’t afraid of no ghost.

    -R-

  564. Thank you. But what is Hawkwind? Was this something from the the time of Sumer? I did not understand the link. All I saw was some words and someone playing acoustic guitars

  565. Raul,

    This is a copy and paste of Hakwind man.

    Hawkwind are a British rock band, one of the earliest space rock groups. Their lyrics favour urban and science fiction themes. Notable fantasy and science …

    See? No sumerian, its just a song man.

    Sorry if you feel let down.

    -R-

  566. See that Owain, it seems you and your web lover Paul have some kind of notoriety for going around talking shit and bullying people.

    Mr. natural has some kind of respect for you guys, says that you’re very knowledgeable. I haven’t seen shit in here proving that. All I seen was immaturity on the part of Paul and you kissing his ass man.

    Le me ask you something Owain. Did you agree with Paul on the levers and ramps theory?

    I bet you would have though given the chance. You’re a lame wanker at that.

    I haven’t started making you guys look stupid yet. I’ll let you do most the work there.

    -R-

  567. Whoa Rico. All I know about these guys is they’re heavy duty scientists. I mean HEAVY DUTY. They are into all kinds of things. It appears they’re not working for the same organisations, work together or even know each other personally but have similar areas of expertise. From what I’ve been able to ascertain it’s weird stuff. They also have very legitimate interests such as astronomy, geology and so on. Again from bits here and there that I’ve worked out, been sent, seen and hints they’ve dropped, probably accidentally, they really are the real deal. They’re not as dumb as you might hope they are. Do not be fooled by what you call their stupidity. They are far from it. Are they dangerous? Not for me to say but you could get a real scorching. I’ve seen them at work in places on the net usually solo but sometimes with others. Never seem them together on the net before though. One contact I have has seen a couple of members of their loose association in real life-action at a conference, her verdict. Very scary, very powerful, very scientific as in hard hard science and very, very well informed. As you say, just a heads up. But I’m away now. Perhaps check in tomorrow just to see what responses come in. Be safe. Be calm.

  568. Mr. Natural, I appreciate your concern.

    These guys have run into the wrong person in me. I’m not tooting my own horn but I’m an old man and I treat people not according to titles but by how they carry themselves.

    I don’t know what they know and I don’t really care what they think they know. I know what I know. I know that the Bible exist and you know this too. I also know that the Bible has been around for longer than Owain and his butt buddy Paul.

    I know what I believe and I respect others faith but I won’t treat these guys with respect because they have titles. Respect has to be earned. You know this as well as anyone.

    As for science, man, let me tell you something, where I’m from there are many different insects. We have boll weevils here. When you look up the boll weevil it says that science cannot understand how this insect flies. The way it is built scientifically it should not fly. So much for science, this bug flies all over the place.

    Thats one. Heres another. You all know about these crystal skulls. If not you can go google the shit. Anyway, according to science, “they can’t exist”. Yet there they are aren’t they?

    So now we know that there are things in this world that science claims cannot exist.

    So whats new? Pauls argument that ancient astronauts don’t make sense scientificall\y means the same to me a sciences’ opinion of the crystal skulls or the flight of the boll weevil.

    Thats science. I’m not going to go the route that science can’t explain god because it can.

    It will, someday science will prove that god or the gods were actually ancient astronauts.

    See? I believe in science. I just don’t believe when someone says that soemthing is impossible and uses science as an escape for their lack of data.

    Mr. Natural, what site did you hear about this tussle if I may ask? I’m just curious because Stephen came in here saying the same thing.

    If you don’t want to say its ok man, I understand. You can read the whole thread and you will find that Paul came in here like a storm insulting about 5- 6 people.

    Thats not smart, thats stupid. I don’t care how many degrees he has, he can kiss my ass with that shit.

    I ain’t havin it. I’ll keep posting all I want until one of those bitches complains to Ian and I get booted or something.

    Long live EA,

    -Ricochet-

  569. Mr. Natural you are always entitled to your opinion. In here your opinion is like a vote. Don’t let any asshole take that away from you.

    Some people think that because you don’t think like them you can’t post here.

    You can say whatever you want man. If you insult me we trade insults but you can say whatever.

    -R-

  570. Ricochet
    Next thing you know O boy or pj will be telling you; “my dad is bigger than your dad”

  571. Does anyone realize that the biblical stories were used by scholars and archeologist to discover the ancient cities in the stories. At one point they were thought to be myhical too.

    Intelligence is a beautiful thing. Excercise your mind. Don’t let anyone tell you that you’re an idiot for having a thought.

    These guys, Owain and Paul NEED to read translated sumerian tablet stories and read what the scholars have to say about the the much later biblical parallels in order to fom a better informed opinion.

    You can’t start deriding the opinions of others when you’re not informed as to how that person came to his/her conclusion.

    Paul has been weighed and found wanting in this regard.

    When all the cards are in even if you still don’t believe in ancient astronauts at the very least you will be more suitably informed on the subject.

    There are so many things to look into. Vietnam, China, Iraq, Iran, Africa, South America, Mexico, and so many other countries have similar;y built structures and share the basically the same stories from a time when sea travel wasn’t practiced with any regualrity.

    Can you scientifically call this coincidence?
    What happens when people have a debunking mentality it spreads and this actually is counterproductive to research.

    On the surface if you asked for some kind of funding to study the possibility of ancient astronauts you’d be ridiculed.

    This would be due to an established Paul like mentality.

    Like I said thats on the surface. What doesn’t know won’t hrt Paul. Tis is the reality beacuse there are studies on this. They receive funding and there are more than one group pursuing this field from varying governments.

    Someday when an announcement is made then Paulians and the Owainians will accept because science told them so.

    Fun stuff!!

    -R-

  572. -R-
    Yes I have been watching the “floor show”
    Owains last name may be Jones
    which would explain;
    Paul Eatin’ Jones.

    Just a Thought

    As for the Baalbek stones all I can say is they had to have “help”. The scientific approach of course, Trained Dinosaurs!

    Just as much valid as levers and ramps.
    Maybe the scientific

  573. Good fight coming on tonight between Jeff Lacy and Jermaine Taylor. Must see that.

    Its about 2 hrs away so you guys are stuck with all the crap I’m writing for today.

    I’m not gonna lie. I may have offended some of my pals in here and when I get the feedback I may bow out gracefully and leave the site.

    We’ll see.

    Looks like I’m the only knucklehead here on a saturday night.

    -R-

  574. PJ and O

    When dealing with the unknown-
    caution is a well advised approach.

    You boys have no clue who you think you are addressing-
    Caution IS a well advised approach.

  575. Nah man, I already said. I ain’t nobody special. I’m just a charlatan with a PC.

    I’m not gonna come in here and exalt myself or have a pal of mine come in here and tell everyone that I’m the last Coke in the desert.

    I’m just another Rico out here like everyone here thats excercising his right to be heard.

    Thats all. I ain’t no idiot. I ain’t no dummy. I’m not ignorant nor am I deformed in any way. I am healthy. I play ball. I smoke weed. I don’t think I’m better than anyone I’m just one of you guys.

    Some people come in here and…Well….What can I say….They think they’re gods or some shit.

    I’m just a soul whose intentions are good!!
    Oh Lord!!
    Please don’t let me misunderstood!!

    Yeah!! Nice song!!

    -R-

  576. Well, I hate to say it but…Thats all folks!!

    See you guys tomorrow!!

    As Her Royal Majesty Queen Leah would say!!

    Be Well,

    I love you Leah!!!

    -R-

  577. I would do well to practice s c .

    If the changes of our environment happen on a “regular basis” like once every million years, how would we recognise the pattern as none of us have been around that long?

    Anyone?

  578. Leah,
    link to abydos at members tripod com,
    cannot post link comment disappears
    interesting reasoning- can find it with google
    Martin

  579. Stephen
    If you haven’t figured it out, I’m on the side of logic and reasoning. I’m not on a side of this person or that. Sometimes Ricoh says something reasonable and I agree, sometimes Paul. or any of the others
    If two dogs get into a dog fight both of them get hurt, it doesn’t matter who wins, both will have their scars.

  580. Becky,
    in the new testament, I assumed it belongs to the Bible, Jesus gave the sermon on the mount. like do not judge, so you will not be judged, if somebody hits you on the right cheek offer him your left cheek and so on..

  581. its midday nov 16th
    to the post of debauch on 2nd nov.
    the group of debauch probably have already packed up and waiting for the alien ship to take them away? But the alien ship did not arrive. Have they been tricked by the aliens?
    I feel sorry for these guys. their prophecy of something will happen that we will remember in 2 weeks.
    Somebody has a clue what is was?

  582. Mayans, Sumerians, Egyptians,
    they seemded to have knowledge that is for the moment beyond our grasp. Until we find some hard evidence we only can speculate what they wanted to tell us.
    All these cultures and Indian, Chinese, Greek and Roman in their sagas mentioned Gods and celestial beings.
    If we do not believe in Gods or celestial beings or angels (the german catholic church did some research on angels and they said they found some evidence) then the only explanation for us would be aliens. Or anything else?
    The Lord Buddha told us that there are 30 different realms of heavenly beings, some have form, some do not. In Thailand it is known that some human beings are being able to see and converse with these heavenlyy beings.
    So I am more likely to equate the stories of the Old civilazations with these kind of beings, than with Aliens.
    But it does not mean that I completely disbelieve in Aliens. They surely exist. If they have visited us? I do not rule it out, but I would prefer more hard evidence.
    Because of the knowlege of the ancient civilazation, maybe they knew more than we do right know. But maybe the thread is not coming from outside the world but from the inside, a very likely factor being the humans getting worked up and throwing bombs at each other, other posibilities could be earth quakes and volcanic eruptions, very deadly would be a supervolcanic eruption…
    … just getting back to doomsday 2012 ..
    but maybe its not 2012 but 24th dec of 2016? Reasoning: my feelings of guts. Proof? No proof whatsoever

  583. if we on this blog cannot converse in a civilized manner, calling us names and so on, and we call ourselves eduacated and the cream of the top, then the other part of human beings, that argue with knifes guns and atomic bombs certainly can give a devastating blow to our planet earth.
    I would like us all to have a bit of self control and act as human beings not as dog and I admire Neil for his cool comments even if he is attacked in a dog manner, he still keeps reacting as a British Gentleman -cool and reasonable. (suggest reading his replies to some heavy dogbitings)
    Be all well
    Martin

  584. God or gods are by nature alien as none has ever originated on this planet in any legends.

    Some had sons by earth women and these were considered semi-gods. But actual gods. None born on earth, Therefore alien by nature. Wether in story or actual.

    As for angels, the word angels comes from the greek angelinos which came to us sfrom a much later language. I like to stick with the original first pantheon and their writings and stelae. You will find looking at the sumerian tablets picturing depictions of some gods with wings. The wing appear as attached not a part of the actual body of the person. Like something mechanical.

    They mentioned what translates into “celestial boats” as what the god traveled in.

    Its really astounding. I don’t understand at all how anyone can discard this stuff.

    Its all pre-biblical written in pre semitic languages. Including the first known written language the cunieform scripture of the sumerians.

    There are so many many things that add up to this hypothesis that it cannot in good conscience be dismissed by any one individual.

    Thats my gut feeling on that topic.
    there is simply no explanation offered as to how these early people discovered the math and the astrological knowledge that they proved to posses. Along with this there were so many first “first” discovered by these early human ancestors that it boggles the mind and science cannot offer an explanation.

    These people had the first hybrid wheat and barley!! These crops originated there!!

    I mean….Really. These people obviously weren’t idiots. Some re-thinking about their myths is surely in order.

    It don’t matter because like I said there are serious scientist working at sites as we write here and based on the writings left behind there are still things out there that haven’t been found.

    Change is the only constant.

    -R-

  585. Later angels depicted by christians became mystical beings. Spirits in nature. There is a very real debate in the theological circles about wether or not the sons of god mentioned in genesis 6 came down as spirits and took human shape or not.

    I looked at all this crap before I came across the sumerian stuff.

    There were no angels the way we were raised to imagine them.

    Religion as a whole has been tampered with long ago. It was manipulated by oportunistic people long after the so called gods were gone and kingship on earth is to this day still exploited.

    Kings and Queens in the year of our Lord 2008. Whats that all about?

    Kings and Queens originated in biblical stories as far as we knew. But again the true origin lies in the sumerian legends. Its basically the same as kingship was said in both to have been transfered from heaven.

    The word King comes is related to Kin, Family.
    The first kings were gods then after came the semi-gods. These were the first kings in the oldest legends availbale to mankind as an explanation.

    So what then? The kings of today still have this kinship?

    Its a disgrace whats happened.

    This is all becoming common knowledge.

    Fun stuff!

    -R-

  586. Dear Martins,
    But maybe the thread is not coming from outside the world but from inside.

    Is this reference to this blog / thread, or to DNA ?

  587. Dear Owain,

    Every so often I restate, that I have not written anything re my belliefs. The one I stated in a post to Paul, was as an example, of what if I chose to believe that etc etc.
    I’m interested in more posts such as your 5.49am post of today.
    Leah

  588. Ricoh to
    there is simply no explanation offered..
    You like mystical stuff. Read Edgar Caseys account on Atlantis and you will see that there is a very simple and reasonable explanation for all this. Ships, airplanes, submarines all existed at a time 25,000 years ago and here on Earth. The civilazation on Atlantis existed for about 50,000 years. Our history does not even cover 10,000 years.
    2nd read the accounts on the Lord Buddha going to the heavenly realms and teaching there the heavenly beings. These beings do not have wings they float in gracefully like cotton balls. (Biography of Acharn Mun)
    The account of the Lord Buddha with his disciple Moggallana, going to the highest heaven and just to show the highest God there that he does not live eternally he made his palace tremble. After this and a bit of discussion this God realized, that also his life as a God has a limit and he has to be reborn somewhere else.
    This is funstuff and gives some food for consideration
    Be well Martin

  589. we take pictures in normal light, infrared, UV(?), has someone taken pictures in the blue spectrum? It could be very interseting. Maybe we could detect some of these beings from other realms, like ghosts or devas that do not have such a dense material bodies?

  590. Dear Martin,
    I took a look at tripod.com. This is an example of what may be gleaned, if assumption, and preference, along with belief, is set asside.

    Hence the phrasing of my question. I use the word hoax, only in order to draw attention to the question. Many have a predisposition to continue to believe in their chosen preference, for several reasons, in spite of further feasible possibiliteis being presented.
    Leah

  591. The earlier reference to the Man cured of Aids.
    Why not ? E.g. A fundamental and important difference between Programmed natural cell death, Apoptosis, and cell death having been killed, was understood whilst taking a bath.
    Many medicines, are discovered to be much more effective, by accident if you like, on a condition other than the one or ones they were developed to effect.

  592. Within the frame of reference and context, that is perceived by the many as being a person, and time e.g. Messier, would not have observed any objects, light from which had ceased to reach Earth before the first moment he began observing, nor the light of which that would reach Earth after his final observation.

    Within the frame of reference and context that Time is perceived to be…..Time is dependant on the speed of Earth’s rotation, and orbit of the Sun. Therefore Time is dependant on speed, and is not a constant ?

    Could “The end of Time” be, a change in perception, wrather than an END on any physical plane ? The end of one perception, and the beginning of another perception….one of a truer nature ?

  593. Let me state for the record.
    1)The bible exists. From my understanding and things I learned at school and elsewhere the OT is a collection of prophesies by leaders of the tribes of Israel generally concerned with the coming of the Hebrew messiah. Certain texts e.g. Ezekiel appear to describe a journey high above the surface of the earth. Some authorities have, I believe, attributed the visions seen by prophets as being caused by ergot contaminated cereals. This isn’t too long a shot as ergot poisoning happens today. As for Ezekiel I don’t know what that is all about, yet.
    2). Sumer. The base on which most western astronomy and law is founded. Builders of amazing stone structures using the technology at hand. Without the Sumerians the Greeks would have been behind the game regarding astronomy. Their advances in scientific thought and intellectual rigour was essentially home-grown. Even though only a relatively small number of the cuneiform tablets have been deciphered the claims for alien help in building their structures or even visiting are simply not there. There is no problem with them or other prehistoric believing their creators lived in the sky and came down to visit on a column of flame. These stories melded with others and reappear in every Near Eastern culture. There are no end of visitors from the sky – Zeus appeared as a swan, the gods regularly descended from Mount Olympus; Jehovah appeared as a burning bush if memory serves. Fire and gods is a common theme running through the ancient world. The wonders of the ancient world should not be diminished by the as yet unproved visitation by aliens. It actually demeans the people of the time.

  594. Rico. As Paul withdrew his levers and pulleys point I think you might give him credit for that. He’s obviously looked at the stones and realised it couldn’t done merely with that set up. You have to admit that as a man of science he’s done what science does. Look at the evidence and then come to a conclusion based on that evidence.

  595. BBC News. Professor Thomas Crowley, Edinburgh Universtiy develops new model re CO2 postponing or even possibly preventing the cooling of Earth, with unknown consequences.

    I keep in mind global warming and dimming simultaneously, the latter being a counter action to the former. Since the very first squeaks re global warming were uttered publically, ( in comparison global dimming still takes a back seat…not being mentioned nearly as often) I pondered on what the other effects might be…..and whispered here and there myself, re my thoughts.

    The staving off of the natural cyclical cooling of Earth. Could that be the reason why there is much Talk re global warming and what should be done….cut CO2 emissions…..yet little is done in ratio to the alleged problem, despite the fact that proven tech to produce clean energy exists many fold…….unless of coarse global warming is what has been hither to deemed as desirable in comparison to an ice age, and necessity to live in e.g. underground facilities.

    There may very well be a change of heart, as new findings provide insight to what some of the unknown consequences are e.g. dimming that cuts out sunlight causing problems with food supply.

    With ionoshere heating capability to boot…..what one is told and what really is, whilst relative to eachother….are not the same.

  596. Dear Espumpin,
    Took a look…….deffinately possible……not conclusive proof without any room for doubt though. Maybe after further study and input……a future fact ?
    Leah

  597. The effects of radiation from all sources need to be considered too.
    Also…….When the actual function of the 2 extra that apes have, a clearer picture may present itself.

  598. Owain, this is where we differ. The summary that you posted is mostly incorrect.

    1) The Bible is not a collection of prophesies from the by leaders of the tribes of israel. The way you have described what the Bible is speaks for itself of your lack of information. It is a totally erroneous analysis. The ergot poisoning that you refer to I believe was what scholors offfered as a possible explanation to the time if witch burnings in recent history, this supposedly explained what they called possesions. If you want to blame drugs for making people believe they have talked to god look up Ayahuasca then come back and talk to me.

    2) Sumer is the base for all astronomy. It has been proven to be the location of the first civilization on earth. Possible location of the Biblical Eden. The information that you have is old. Many tablets have been translated and many have not. The legends translated include “The Epic of Gilgamesh of which Espumpin and Amit have both mentioned here. This legend has been scientifically accepted as a pre semitic version of the deluge. Like I stated before, all of the biblical stories had their origin in sumerian “myths”. The Hebrews simply re-cast the characters and put a twist on it. They created a One God religion and attributed all of the credit for all of the legends to this one god, Yahweh or Jehova whichever you choose.

    I’m not here saying that the one true god this or the one true god that.

    I’m saying that after all I’ve read. I have come to the conclusion that todays religion is but a shadow of ancient religion.

    Ancient religion talked about gods. All of them said the same thing. They came from above and their stories describe as best they could for their time what seem like flying machines to us today.

    I say that these aliens came here long ago and that they didnt create man but experimented with the more evolved type of human beings. There may have been cro-magnon and neanderthal still at that time. Anyway they genetically changed mans evolution by mixing their own DNA with early mans and creating a whole new species of human beings. This would in fact support both the theory of evolution and the creation stories.

    Thats all I’m saying. You can call up all the science you want. This hypothesis cannot at this time be proven valid however it cannot be discounted.

    But Owain, you can verify everything I’ve said.
    I’m not making this stuff up. My intentions are very sincere when I say to you that you are in dire need of redifining your knowledge of the Bible.

    Its a good thing that I had the opportunity to be the first to point this out to you because in fact for a second there I felt like Paul must feel. I almost called you all kinds of names.
    Someone else probably would not have been as kind.

    -R-

  599. Owain the people of the time are the ones that left the alien stories. How would we demean them? In not researching and studying these stories and then deciphering their meaning is when we deamean these ancient people.

    By saying that all they wrote was myths and by categorizing their religions ass false. This deameaning don’t you think?

    -R-

  600. By ALL means have your religion and beliefs. I totally agree that 1) the religions we have today are corruption’s of former religions
    2) religion is a comfort blanket for people who are not able to take the consequences for their actions. People turn to religion when there is a spiritual void in their lives.
    Quite true about the Epic of Gilgamesh which does seem to point to the great flood. But the most recent interpretation is that, as pointed out earlier here, the breaching of an earth dam at the eastern end of the Mediterranean caused the flooding of a huge depression that became the Black Sea. The dry land was occupied by settlers and or hunter gathers. Those that escaped the inundation would have carried the story with them and over the millennia the legend of the Great Flood would have been incorporated into Sumerian/Assyrian culture and then twisted and adapted into Hebrew/biblical culture. For many this is how legends evolve.

  601. Not saying their religions are false at all.
    You demean the people of the ancient world by saying their structures were built with the aid and direction of aliens. They were quite capable of raising the buildings. They were as clever as us but frustrated by their lack of practical science. Remember their astronomy was all done without the aid of telescopes.

  602. Owain, they are the ones that say these gods did it. Not me. Also who built this dam during the time of hunter gatherers?

    Flood stories came from mesoamerica as well so it couldn’t jave been a totally local event.

    -R-

  603. It was a natural dam of glacial moraine formed at the end of the Ice Age. The floor of the Black Sea is very much lower than the Med.

  604. Oh my bad, an earth dam. That would be a speculation.
    What I’m putting forth comes from the old stories. The fact that the bible tells of a deluge and links this event with a god. Then we go to the sumerian version and they link the flood event to a god leads one to believe that the event was something that someone knew was coming and didn’t tell anyone about. Both legends tell of warned survivor.

    There is an actual account of the lineage of the sons of this survivor. There is speculation that Ham was the father of africa and that he was a black man. His wife was supposedly a worshiper of an opposing god though.
    This of course is the biblical version.

    Many of the biblical stories not just Ezekiel but also the story of how Elijah was taken to heaven in some kind of sky chariot along with the descriptions of the sumerian gods celestial boats should be analyzed further with a more modernistc mentality. Bear in mind that when the first english translation of the bible was introduced there was no electricity and there were no cars. I imagine that someone from this era would interpret many things more accurately.

    The biggest debunker that Sitchin has is Michael S. Heiser. This guys has so many credentials its disgusting. Just google the name. I read his book, “The Facade”.

    He translated the bible from directly from the ancient Hebrew. You should read The Facade

    He also saw aliens in the bible. As you can see by his credentials, he cannot be dismissed. Hes also an expert in the sumerian aspect.

    There are too many coincidences for dimissal.

    Too many similar ziggurats and astronomically alligned objects to call it coincidence.

    Thats where we stand. I understand your explanation of how legends begin man. But thats an old argument and there are too many to be explained away with that approach.

    Read the Erra Epos and see how sitchin translates it.

    Good stuff!!

    -R-

  605. The Hebrews went out of their way to credit all of these events to Yahweh. There are many things in the bible that they probably couldn’t change too much though because they are accurate. I guess you lie about an event but you can’t lie about the location.

    This is the reason we see so many contradictions and obviously ommitted information. Even from the begining when Adam and Eve have cain the abel. Cain kills abel and he banished and told to go away and multiply. If these were the first people who was cain to multiply with?

    They left out the the inherant incest required for the start of a people with just a pair.

    It cannot be proven that there were no ancient astronauts is all I’m saying.

    -R-

  606. For the record…I don’t recall posting anything in reference to Martin’s 7.27pm post, and Martin’s post 8pm…..I found the video, so its still there.

  607. Question…..When D signed off and said something in 2 weeks……which weeks
    Earth weeks
    Mars weeks
    Jupiter weeks
    Or some other weeks ?

  608. Now what is the point in removing Ricochet’s post Nov 16th at 4.05pmthat says……..kinda quiet tonight.

  609. Hi Amit,
    Hope you and family are well, and had good weekend.
    Like on Martin’s link http://www.tripod.com carvings etc do get re carved, and paintings painted over. Sometimes things get re-written, a change of context. Its why its a jigsaw puzzle, spotting where each piece has its one and only true position if it is to enhance and make the picture clearer.
    Leah

  610. What has this civilisation created to preserve our knowlege and understanding for future generations…..say 1000 years from now ?

    Time capsules with computer discs, makes the assumption that there will have to be computers 1000 years or 5000 years from now….or at least sometime in the future.
    Otherwise….whats the point ? No one will be able to discern the info on them.

    To leave info carved in stone, stands a chance of at least some surviving, and that given time, the true nature and meaning of the info they convey will be understood….clear as crystal.

    Why clear as crystal…and not clear as water ?

  611. This last couple of days reminds me of Robert’s one and only post that….. so much attention is given to the small details that the big picture is over looked.

    I’ll add….when driving, there are times when spending a disproportionate amount of time looking in the rear view mirror, means one is not looking where one is headed on the road ahead.

  612. If something wiped out all but a thousand….they would set about re-creating the conditions of life before the catastrophe, in so far as ther knowlege, experience and then conditions and availability of materials permitted them to do so.
    What they know would be the foundation of the next civilisation.

  613. Dear Amit,
    You have wisdom. Got to be big….some so big as to poke your eye out. If they would have left small stuff…stuff that wasn’t almost unbelievable…who would look, or question.
    Man is curious….so they left mysterious stuff, knowing it would make us question and analyse, in the hope we would understand.
    Leah

  614. Dear Amit,
    Late, or early here, depending how you look at it….so going to dream now. I leave with a question re time capsules.

    Who in the future, will know to look for and where to find such small hidden items ? I can imagine the myth that will be told. Thats right !!! I already wrote a short story about that. Shame my publisher died before I understood why he wanted it turned into a book. No boast, just fact.

  615. Did anyone watch this one first Raven said it then he said it and what C.A. and persona non grata or Sorry and pardon the pun but is this stuff real, I mean what do you think some of this stuff makes sense some is like WOW, I can’t believe he said that anyone anyone Buller, Buller. I wish I was more ignorant so I could enjoy the bliss a little more. Hey -R, pass the charms plz. 🙂
    E

  616. To all
    my curiosity has been satisfied. Curiosity translated to german = Neugier. Retranslated means greed for new stuff.

    BTW the great flood has been mentioned in ancient Chinese Texts as well.
    So I’m off and wish all the best to all of you
    Martin

  617. Hello Friends!

    Took me a lot of time to catch up with the thread after the weekend… You guys sure did a lot of typing..

    Rico My Brother, please calm down… I know its been hard, in face of the language used by Paul & Co. But i can only request you to keep your calm because its “you” that i know, and its you who is my friend, not Paul and others.. I am not at all concerned with how they present themselves…Let them disgrace themselves all that they want.
    When we have so much facts to support our theories, we do not need to get down to their level to fight it out.. Remember school days?? The bullies used to shout the most when they were wrong ,and when they found it hard to get their facts accepted.. Truth is way more effective in low tones than lies can ever be, even when shouted out..

    It must seem awkward coming from me, because in the past i was also guilty of indulging in the war of words. But i am learning the art of self control… And i would like all my freinds to practice it here.. No matter how low the other person gets, we dont need to bend over double to reach their level..

    I know its real hard to go through such stuff with calmness. Even my Blood boils sometimes, reading some of the posts. But we dont have to fight fire with fire… We can just smother it with our huge blanket of faith and facts…

  618. Paul,

    For once we are in agreement about something! Robert E Howard i mean.. Conan is amazing indeed.. So is Costigan and Solomon Kane.
    I possess 126 book by Howard, not been able to read all of them yet… But they are so damn good that i am going at a fast pace..

  619. Paul, Are you really sure you want to trust the Neart Earth Objects Program?? I am sure all of us remember the incident some time ago when an object was discovered few days “after” it had passed very close to earth..
    The universe around is so unpredictable that we cannot reply on our current technology to tell us about approaching bodies and important celestial events well in advance..
    And here i find it quite strange that the Mayans were so accurate with their “primitive” technology…

  620. And Paul, i would like to congratulate you for achieving Great Success in getting Van Daniken and others classified as “Fiction”, i am sure it will do a world of Good!
    You know what, more people will be interested in these books when they are listed in fiction section, because not all people are inclined to go for books labelled as “Scientific”..
    And when more and more people read these books, they will wonder if its really “Fiction”, because it will start making more sense to them than the other “Science” Stuff about Astronomy etc.
    Good Job Paul!!!

  621. As for the debate about Ancient Astronauts… Did anyone chance to look upon the Web Page i linked some time back?

    I am still awaiting answers from the “Other Side” (Of the debate i mean)…

    So many indications cannot be wrong… I mean, why would people imagine these things?? And in that link, the art is from an era wen there were no Airplanes, balloons, Jets etc. to provide illusions to people…

  622. Owain, in one of your posts you mentioned that the Ancients were lacking in “Practical Science”. And that all their astronomy study was done without the aid oftelescopes… Then how would you explain their accuracy with their calculations??

  623. Martin, As for the Great Flood, it is mentioned in every ancient text.. There was no ancient culture whic did not experience it..
    This proves the authenticity of texts of Enuma Elish. Various events recorded in Enuma can be corroborated with the records from other ancient civilisations.
    And as Rico said, the appearance of similar Pyramids , Ziggurats etc at different locations of Globe does point at a guiding hand…
    Then why is it so hard to believe in Alien Intervention?

  624. Very Right Leah….
    I am not sure if we can rely upon Computer Discs to be the right Time Capsules for our civilisations..
    I think that the primitive means used by ancients – Tablets, carvings, Drawings etc,. and even Whole Buildings are much reliable!
    They knew what stuff will be able to do withstand the tests of time. Now , another point springs up from this. Let us belive for a moment that the megalithic/monolithic structures were built by the ancients on their onw. But why would they take the pains to use such heavy stones then? Whats the purpose? Cant it be related to the fact that they knewthe cyclic nature of cataclysmic events and wanted to point the future generations (Us) in the right direction!! These pyramids and their alignment have a lot to do with the alignment of celestial bodies…

  625. Leah,

    I have yours as well as Rico’s and Becky’s..
    But i haven’t made any contact yet.
    Actually, i am not able to access my Personal Mails at office, and i would not like to use my official ID for personal commmunication. Nor i wan t to publish that here…
    But if Espumpin and JAT can provide an ID of theors too, i would appreciate… Would hate to lose contact with you guys…
    I will be able to get in touch when i get an Internet Connection at home.. I am planning to relocate shortly.. Have too many things on my plate right now.. Things will settle by January, then i will be able to use E-Mails as well..

  626. Another point which i wanted to comment upon is the relevance of the discussion here…
    Its true that the thread started from the article about Geomagnetic Pole Reversal, but it does not mean that people must limit their discuusion to that single thing only, Even in the article 2012 is the main point, so the other related things are bound to be discussed. While there are some things that point towards the significance (Or Insignificance) of 2012, there are lots of concepts which deal with the Spiritual side as well. And they cannot be ignored..
    Dr. Calleman, Ian Xel Lungold, McKenna, John Major Jenkins and Peter Russell have been doing lots of research on this aspect.
    As per their findings Mankind is a at a crucial moment in the transformation process.
    The alignment with the center of the Milky Way, or this galactic alignment is a core idea in many of the world’s spiritual traditions—especially Mithraism, the Vedic Yuga doctrine, and Neoplatonic philosophy, all the way up to William Blake.
    It cannot be discarded as nonsense!

  627. Owain, With reference to your post made on 5:49 AM on 16th November…
    You mentioned that there was no indication of Alien Visitors in Smerian Texts.. Well, i guess you dont have all the translations then. There is more than enough eveidence..
    And as for Gods, you mentioned that almost all the cultures believe their Gods to have descended from Sky amidst a column of fire.. Dont you find this uncanny? Why the connection of Gods with Sky and Fire always? Rockets and Spaceships, dont u think?
    And as for Bible, its a page by page copy of Enuma Elish, with some adjustments suited to the propagators at that time… You dont need to be an expert to see the similarity, its take a bit of common sense and a bit of study..

  628. Another week, another load of blatherings to get through before there’s any sense.
    Thanks to whoever said I now have acolytes!! I certainly don’t need or want them.
    Never met of heard of Owain but then the world and the net are a big places and it’s possible we haven’t landed on the same sites that debunk the conspiracy theorists and alien science sites – there are just soooo many.
    Mr.Natural credits me with far too much influence and power. Just a humble jobbing guy that’s all.
    Stephen. If you’re a rational man you should start weighing in with some comments. There’s plenty to have a go at and debunk.
    Who mentioned McKenna earlier? He is someone so far off the highway with his ideas that he’s wandering around an intellectual desert. Mad as hatter.
    Back later.

  629. Dear Paul,
    In your Nov 11th 3.04 am post you wrote……”bobs up and down 3 times in one galactic revolution” and that one revolution of the Milkt Way was 225 milion years.

    Nov 17th 6.27 am “3 times per galactic revolution……sun crosses the plane evey 33 million years”

    Even if I assume you mean “bob up and down” to mean crossing the plane North to south 3 times and South to North 3 times = 6 crossings in all….it doesn’t add up to 225 million years. 3 times 33 million years is no where near 225 million years.

    I would hope that you quoted someone else’s research and calculations, and that these are not your own.
    Be well,
    Leah

  630. Dear Espumpin,
    Ask yourself what other circumstances….segregation ? Why ?
    Expectation of mass imigration ?
    Keep separate to protect majority from a minority ?

    Everything has many uses, not just one. Not necessarily concentration camp per se, but that’s what man compares with….the last time same or similar was seen. Only those know who are in charge of them, know what their intentions are.
    Be well, Leah

  631. Paul,

    Welcome Back… Hope your weekend was good.
    When we name people like McKenna and some others, why are you always so quick to dismiss them so disdainfully??Well, even if you dont agree with them, there is no reason why you should call them mad….
    They have done a lot of research and spent innumerable hours racking their brains to come up with these theories. And atleast they have work which they can call their own. They are not just plagiarising or refining the theories of others.

  632. We’re always aligned with the centre of the milky way. Catastrophists will always say humanity is at a crucial place and time in order to cause concern or even panic. It happened eight years ago – remember the Millennium Bug? Remember the End-Timers screeching death doom and despondancy? It happened a thousand years ago as 999 was about to turn to 1000AD. The messiah was trumpeted as returning 2000 years ago. The Christians believe he arrived, the Jews didn’t. Were they good times or bad times? Good for some bad for others. In between times there are sightings of lights in the sky portending destruction, some ancient calendar is due to end/turn over portending destruction. Give it as rest.
    In the spirit of, if not friendship, then reason will Amit, JAT, Espumpin and Rico tell me in plain words what they are trying to say here? DO it without quoting Sumerian texts, without pointing me and others to the ramblings of people on You Tube, without the half-arsed extracts from Velikovsky et al. Simple.

  633. Velikovsky wasn’t above twisting and deliberately distorting the work of properly grounded science to fit his deluded theories was he? Celestial magnetic fields inducing the earth to flip over indeed. Ha!

  634. What might appear as an “Intellectual” desert to those who have never gone in that direction, the one who has reached there could be enjoying the pleasures of a tremendous oasis of intellect….
    [The Glue that knits all theories and all prophecies into one is the fractal interpretation of reality. Fractality incorporates relativity with quantum principles into one interpretation and more. Fractal super symmetry of space/time is the double helix curvature – it is the theory of everything (physical and spiritual) that gives ONE meaning not only to partial physical theories but also reveals spiritual truth inherent to prophecies and ancient texts and monuments of Mayan, Biblical, Egyptian, Sumerian, Vedic, Chinese and other origins because they are only different derivates of ONE reality…

  635. Paul,

    You seem to be mistaken about the Galactic Alignment we are discussing here.

    The period in which the crossing of the galactic plane occurs, starts in 1980 and ends in 2016. Now you would ask what was the reason to choose so specifically for December 2012? The answer is that the Mayas found something other than the middle of that period more important: The ancient Maya intended their 2012 end date to target the alignment of the solstice sun and the Milky Way galaxy. Ultimately, the Maya envisioned the alignment to occur in 2012 as a union of the Cosmic Mother (the Milky Way) with First Father (the December solstice sun), the rare alignment of the December solstice sun with the Galactic Center is the reason why the Mayas chose to end their 13-baktun calendar on December 21, 2012.
    Once every 26.000 years -this time in 2012- the soul of the universe, the core of the Milky Way, will be in one line with the sun, the center of our solar system, and with our planet Earth. So the center of our small part of the universe (microcosm) then is in direct connection with what the Mayas called the cosmic womb (macrocosm)

  636. What if each of the past civiliasations that Archeologists study world wide, each represent ONE of the 3-4 or 4-5 ages of man one after another….Mayan having been the last…… and ours is the next ?

    They could all each be telling of a catastrophe…..cyclical….but not the same one.
    It does not help to think that one can use carbon dating tech etc….to assertain anyhting other than the approx age of the stone, minerals etc…..which has nothing to do with when the stone was carved / worked upon. There is no tech that can tell when the carving was done…..just can’t be older than the stone itself……but wait……minerals grow, so one needs to calculate the age of the stone in the quarry etc…..as the age of a quarried piece of stone is not indicative of the age of the entire quarry location.
    Even then, one can not carbon date etc, when the stone was quarried.

    There are those that would convince themselves that they know such things……but cannot prove nor disprove what they only think they know.

  637. Further….Assertaining when a stone was carved, by weather erosion etc, is not proof of when it was quarried.
    To assume that any stone was both quarried and used, in buildings or as carvings, by the same civilisation, will not lead to truth. Some might have been, some might have been recycled, and even re carved.
    History, like nature is cyclical and repeats itself, as we recycle today, as we re-use bricks, stone and much else.

  638. The main aim of current physics is the combining of relativity with quantum theory. It hasn’t been done and fractality hasn’t done it. The closest physics has come to achieving it was in the 1920’s when Kaluza and Klein did it but only in five spatial dimensions. The ‘trick’ is to do it in our three spatial dimensions. While there does seem to be a link between fractals [in particular the very well known Mendalbrot Set] and the quantum world it is mainly due to chaotic nature of fractals which some see mirrored in the quantum world. However the quantum world exists at the very base of the physical world while fractals are very much of the macro world. This is NOT to preclude anty yet unproven or inheritantly unproveable link between the quantum world and the world beyond that of physics. Some have theorised a link between the quantum and dreams/parallel universes etc. At present any links are beyond testable experiments and remain theories.

  639. Strange theories such as super string and M-theory have, according to some including Michiko Kaku, arrived before they can be effectively used. He said these theories appear to have been dropped in on us from the future. He DIDN’T actually mean that a scientist or some alien culture dropped them through time to help us. They haven’t been much help in actual fact. Initially they casued some confusion.
    There are instances however where a theory is developed that appears limited or leads to a deadend. For example. A paper from 1962 by Subramanian Chandrasekar entitled ‘The Bifurcation of The Jacobi Elipsoids’ sat in the libraries for 25 years so or seemingly a paper on abstact mathematics. Come the late 1980’s and astronomers are struggling with the many millisecond pulsars that were being discovered at the time. The problem was how could something so dense and so small [10 miles diameter and composed of degenerate matter] rotate at over 630 times a SECOND and remain spherical. Someone remembered Chandrasekar’s work and dug it out. [Chandra was a famous astronomer
    known for his work on stellar evolution and the mass limit for white dwarves – Chandrasekar’s Limit]. The result is that we now think that rapidly spinning neutron stars i.e. pulsars highly flattened ellipsoidal bodies. Thta’s how science works.
    Lumping fractals in with prehistoric writings is not going to provide scientific answers or even provable answers. It most certainly does provide answers to the sort of question that you and Espumpin and Rico are seeking. I say that without any preducice at all. By all and every means find the explanations you want to find but don’t mix them in with real scientific endeavours.
    I’ll respond to your post about galactic alignment once I’ve read it through a number of times. There appear to be some big misconceptions on your part about the behaviour of the stars and the solar system within the milky way.

  640. In answer to your assertion the the sun/solar system started to cross the plane of the milky way in 1980 and ends in 2016. Well at present the sun and solar system are 88 light years ABOVE i.e. north of the galactic plane and still moving northward at around 7 kilometers per second. In 15 million years it will be 220 light years above the plane of the galaxy. From then on the sun will plunge southwards once again crossing the plane and ending up 220 million light years south of the plane. The sun crosses the plane every 33 million years or 3 times per galactic revolution.
    I think the 26000 years you refer to is the direction the poles point to. Every 26000 years the rotational pole points to the same point in the sky. In 26000 years the pole will return to pointing towards Polaris. It then moves to Vega then on to Thuban in Draco. So it goes. But the galaxy centre alignment with the sun is a non-starter.

  641. Over millenia the ‘winter’ solstice changes. It hasn’t always fallen in December. Look at the precession of the equinoxes. The First Point Of Aries – the point where the sun crossed the ecliptic used to occur in the constellation of Aries. It now happens in Pisces. It constantly moves backweards in the sky. Ditto the solstices.

  642. To Raul.
    I’m sorry to have to tell you that the ‘ancient’ poems you sumitted are actually pieces written by Michael Moorcock for the Chronicle Of The Blacksword album in 1984 and subsequent Live Chronicles tour of 1985 by Hawkwind. The first has been substatially changed though. Great band Hawkwind.

  643. My point was, from a different perspective, that another human / humans told others 11,000 BC. No God came from the skies with this information, and gave it to the archeologists of 19th, 20th or 21st century.

    It is human conjecture. As science changes its view as to how old the universe is, on a regular basis due to further info and understanding, so, archeology has changes its views.

  644. The eyes of a Dragon fly, are made up of over 29,000 lenses, each of which has a unique perspective. Does the Dragon fly deem only one of them as being the truth, or factual.
    No, each of the perspectives contribute to the big picture.

  645. Future man will find artifacts and ruins and first ask who built and made these things, then what were they used for. Later he will ask, why did they do that. The answers to those questions will be varied, each a different perpective. Eventually realising that each perspective is a part of the whole.

  646. Leah, i’m on it
    this is proof without science, science without proof. faith without religion, religion without faith. Keep an open mind & watch………….

  647. Paul, welcome back and I hope your monday morning at work has been good.

    If you read the initial subject matter by Ian or whomever you will find this:

    “2012 doomsayers use the geomagnetic shift theory as if it is set in stone.”

    This open the subject matter somewhat as the 2012 date is highlighted as a doomsday or new begining event almost exclusively with prophesies and the maya calendar.

    Now, you and I are well aware that the statement is incorrect. There are many maya 2012 advocates that profess other than a geomagentic shift.

    The fact that the threads subject matter mentions this open the door for me to post my theories, beliefs, or whatever opinion I may have regarding the 2012 date mentioned above.

    This clears up the question of wether or not I should be talking here about maya religious beliefs and legends.

    If you take the calendar at face value and look at the start and end dates it means nothing.

    One has to take the context of the maya culture in order to apply any meaning to this calendar.

    In thier writings the maya explain the calendar as measuiring “an age”

    I believe it represents the 4th or 5th age of man and they mention that man has gone through 3 or 4 ages before and they all ended in catastrophe. This age is to end by fire.

    I understand your position.

    My position however is that the maya like the sumerians, talk about “visitors” that provided them knowledge.

    The difference between you and I is that I don’t disregard their beliefs and explain it away as myth.

    In answer to your question as to what I’m trying to say is simply that the maya learned from these visitors that are described as obviously superior beings.

    I consider the calendar a ticking timer left behind to let us know that the maya were aware of this time period in the 5th age.

    I think that they were under the impression that this was common knowledge amonst intelligent civilizations as when the spanish landed in south america back in the days they offered a calendar as if the spanish knew what it would be.

    Thats what I’m trying to say.

    I’m saying that the calendar for want of a better word is of devine or alien knowledge. But of course being that you would have to make leaps and bounds to understand what I’m trying to say because you don’t accept any religious data.

    I can agree to disagree with you, however you can offer no scientific proof that it didn’t happen the way I say.

    Also, as I stated in earlier post the lack of evidence which you would accept as scientific does not prove you correct in your belief that no ancient astronauts have visited earth. Science is constantly accepting as fact things that seemed impossible in the past.

    There is an abundance of information on which I base my beliefs.

    What these beings were able to calculate we don’t know.

    Perhaps there is a pattern that we are unaware of that causes major changes that bring about these world changing events and they were able to measure the time spans.

    I know you don’t like speculation but in the absence of fact like any scientist will do that is all I can offer at this time.

    I don’t disregard anything.

    -R-

  648. Really, even if Andrew was trying to point something out by pasting Ricos and my posts in between his, I won’t read them on priciple, as that is not a way to seek attention.

  649. There are only 4 minutes between the 2 posts, the pasting of our posts back fired at the first attempt…so had to repeat the exercise. Just shows how little it takes when trying to cause emnity.

  650. Dear Amit,

    The coffer in the Kings chamber…the dimensions of which ar the same as the Ark of the Covenant are said to be. So….the Ark fits in the coffer.
    Leah

  651. Dear Amit,
    Not to omit, that past civilisations may have been space travel capable, and created those structures on Mars. Maybe copying what was found on Mars here on earth ….as a sign for us to notice the next time we had the capability to do so.
    Leah

  652. All possibilites are on the cards. We go to Mars and copy here on earht, or we go and re-create what is on earth….or aliens create both……etc etc. Point being, doesn’t matter which option appeals…..its not coincidance.

  653. Leah I’m with Amit and Espumpin on the 11,000 BC origin.

    This fits the legends that I’ve been following.

    Some of these people should also look into Berosus.

    Paul was pretty mellow today.

    We’ll see him again tomorrow.

    -R-

  654. Leah there were dinosaurs here that is a fact. There was no man when the dinosaurs were here. this is also a “scientific” fact.

    However, it does not mean that earth had visitors as far back a the dinosaurs. I’m not sating this what I believe but its not impossible.

    I just want to bring up a point.
    In America theres a saying:

    If it ain’t broke.
    Don’t fix it.

    The way I’m applying this sating is that if the powers that be are happy with the establishment, as in establishe religion and kings and Presidents and prime ministers and all that crap.

    Then should anyone ever find proof that there is no such thing as God. That it was aliens that came down and were taken as gods by early man and everything that sitchin proposed is true.

    It wouldn’t get out. There is no way in hell that they wwould announce this to the world.

    First of all now that there is no god there is no reason to be good for christmas so it becomes a free for all. Second of all you have whole generations that have dedicated their lives to religion, how many suicides would there be?

    No. I could never offer proof because I would have to. This would be a true world discovery and I wouldn’t have to prove anything, everyone would know.

    But whos ready to make the announcement?
    The USA? The British? No, thats the same as the USA right?

    France? Nah, they have religion there also.
    The Arabs? Nah, their people are already insane what with strapping bombs to themselves.

    No one would announce it. If someone discovered proof it would be like inventing a car that can 500 miles on a gallon of water. They’d buy your invention and we’d never see it.

    Same with that type of iscovery, they’d shut up whoever knew and we’d never know.

    This is the birth of a conspiracy theory.

    Now I can say that maybe there is proof.
    But it’s not sciences’ fault that we don’t know because scienece has to answer to someone else doesn’t it?

    You have to admit. Even if say Paul there had proof he would have to consider the moral consequences wouldn’t he?

    It’s like my man,

    Just a thought.

    -R-

  655. Paul,

    Thanks for your explanations..
    Though i am not sure if it convinces me against my beliefs. Still, the points you mentioned about the Galactic Alignment are worth looking into. I wil try to find some more details and get back with it…
    As for Fractals, i dont know about the link of quantum world with fractals. But McKenna has doen enough to show us the relation of Fractal Time with the real world..
    The structure McKenna saw appearing over thousands of years, he also encountered in a small form, through which he discovered that time has a fractal-like structure. In a fractal part of the whole is like the whole. This discovered structure links up with the predictional talents of the Mayas. They were the ones who discovered that time repeats itself, is cyclical. They gave different values to different periods of time. E.g. some days were good days, and other days of e.g. periods of twenty years, were less favorable. ‘Because Mayan time was cyclical, effects were thought to eventually, and potentially, repeat themselves. So you have all these various cycles that fit together. By looking at the calendar, the Mayas could not only see what day it was, or year, but also what 20-year period it was in relation to. They could also see what was to come. Therefore, the Mayas foresaw their own demise ahead of time. ‘Knowledge of fractality in the past attests beyond speculation that this [our present-day] civilization is one out of many and it will expire, just as its predecessors did, on a due date.
    You may refer The Prophet’s Manual by Danel Srsa, a book full of complicated calculations which have to prove that time is a fractal and that 2012 is the year in which all predictions of all old cultures will reach their peak.

  656. HI THERE I THINK EVERYONE SHOULD SPAM LIKE ANDREW!!!!!!!! I LIKE IT ITS AWESOME AND YOU WILL LIKE IT TOO!!!!!!!

  657. dude no need too spam dude. dude.
    ————————————————————–
    PEACE MAN WHY WE ALL FIGHTIN?!

  658. This was VERY informative for me. I had just watched something about this on the History channel last week and I must admit, the way it was presented had me a little shaken. But that was probably because I knew nothing about this. I think that would help a lot of people who are worrying – getting the facts. Cool article. 🙂

  659. Hey Rico!!

    Good to see you online today….
    Just read through all you posts… Thats more like it Bro!
    And a good point you made about religion.
    Religion pervades everything, even today!Today’s global challenges of war and peace, democracy and human rights, and economic and social development all have an important religious dimension. Tensions
    among religious communities can impede international cooperation, political stability, social cohesion and economic growth. But it is also potentially part of the solution: those communities are often among the most
    important forces mobilizing on core values such as human dignity, solidarity and social responsibility. The ethical resources of faith communities – a source of transcendent values – and their social influence are
    underutilized resources in building coalitions for positive change. Religious traditions prioritize human flourishing, a
    core value for the creation of a durable and legitimate global economic and social order.

    Sorry, i strayed a bit…. Way off infact. But i hope it makes some sense.. Better than Andrew’s Blah Blah atleast!

  660. Dear Leah,

    I am not sure why some innocent posts are removed, but this long BLAH BLAH is allowed to be posted!
    Surely someone is keeping an eye on this therad, right?

  661. Amit you got off track but I think what you were trying to say was that if an announcement like that were made it would basically affect….Everything.

    Religion would have no meaning. It would have to be re-invented.

    Yeah, better to never let that kind of “proof” known to the masses.

    So we will never have proof until an actual UFO landed in a very public area or crashed into a very public area.

    Theres still time 😉

    -R-

  662. Rico,

    I firmly believe that The Great Pyramid holds the key to a huge amount og astronomical mysteries. While people can debate the fact that it was built in 11000 BC, there are a lot of points which differentiate it from the other pyramids built at later times. I know that you already know about the points i am about to mention below.. I am just douing it for the sake of Paul and others…
    The Great Pyramid of Giza has been shown to be an almanac capable of measuring the length of the year to an accuracy of 365.2422 days — rivaling the accuracy of a modern telescope. The ancient architect(s) may also have known the mean length of the Earth’s orbit around the sun, the average distance of the Earth from the Sun, the specific density of the planet (and thus the weight of the planet), the precession of the equinoxes (which defines the current era as the Age of Pisces), the acceleration of gravity, and the speed of light. In fact, as a simple, precise, and virtually indestructible surveying instrument, the compass point of the pyramid is so finely tuned to north that modern compasses use it for a reference. The Pyramid’s location also serves as a geodetic marker for the geography of the ancient world – being located at the geocentric center of the earth’s land mass.
    The Great Pyramid also incorporates in its sides and angles the means for creating a highly sophisticated map projection of the northern geohemisphere, and as such correctly incorporates the geographical degrees of latitude and longitude. It is also a celestial observatory from which maps of the stellar hemisphere can be accurately drawn, and along with the other two Giza pyramids replicates the exact positions of the three stars in the “belt” of the Constellation Orion. Finally, there is an example of The Golden Spiral, whereby the three pyramids and the Sphinx are interlocked and thus situated by design.
    It is clear that the builders of the Great Pyramid knew their Sacred Geometry, as well as the importance of the Golden Mean.
    This lower angle is not arbitrary. The three Pyramids of Giza are the only pyramids in Egypt which have attained the steep angle of almost 52°. All of the other, later Egyptian pyramids — all of which are more recent, lesser, smaller, decayed, or collapsed — were likely built by Pharaohs, but none succeeded in attaining the “perfect angle” of 52°.

    Not that they didn’t try, however. Pharaoh Sneferu, early on, embarked on building steep angled pyramids at Dahshur and Maidum. The latter collapsed, and the architects quickly changed the Dahshur pyramid to a safer angle of 43 1/2°. This change in mid-construction resulted in a pyramid now known as the “Bent Pyramid”.

    The fascination is that the 43 1/2° angle of the upper portion of the Bent Pyramid and all of the other pyramids of Egypt have been built at the same angle as the Pyramid of the Sun at Teotihuacan! Furthermore, while an angle of 52° might have been derived from simply dividing 360° by 7, 43 1/2° has no such correspondence, and a simpler minded builder might more realistically have chosen 45°.

  663. And how about Cydonia?? What do the scientists have to say about that? Face on Mars remember?
    NASA’s latest photographic evidence, while challenging the concept of a “Face on Mars”, did not, however, provide any reference or rebuttal to theories concerning several pyramid like structures, unusual craters and ridges, and other large scale objects in the Cydonia region, and which have been shown to illustrate profound Hyperdimensional Physics and mathematics. The end result is that it is extremely unlikely all the formations in the Cydonia region are natural, and instead are almost certainly artificial and contain within their coding, valuable information.
    Much more significantly, in bringing the Cydonia message down to Earth, Myers and Hoagland have shown the complex of structures and their mathematical relationship have been duplicated on the planet Earth, specifically in the area southwest of London, England. A small scale version includes Avebury’s famous Stone Circle, Silbury Hill, a small burrow west of Silbury Hill, and a series of burrows west of Avebury. These ancient structures match up with the Cydonia map exactly.
    The obvious implication that the constructed “henges”, circles, mounds, and even cuts in surrounding dikes in the Earth version, which correspond on a one-on-one basis with what is seen on Mars in a much larger size, is that the builders of the English landmarks were either aware of the Martian features (or the Martians were mimicking Earth’s features).
    Another Mars-Earth connection involves three, so-called shield volcanoes on Mars which lie in the same exact relative position as the three stars (Alnitak, Alnilam and Mintaka) in “Orion’s Belt” in the constellation Orion, and the three Giza Pyramids near Cairo, Egypt, and the three pyramids at Teotihuacan in Mexico! Furthermore, if the Sphinx is included with the Martian alleged volcanoes (there being no conclusive proof that they’re of natural origin), the Sphinx’s location would be precisely on the equator of Mars. And just to drive the point home, “Cairo” means Mars in a local, ancient language of Egypt.

    The reality appears to be that if we merely look around our planet for artifacts and other anomalies — those which simply can not be explained by a limited view understanding of what the ancient human civilizations were capable of — then we are faced inexorably with the fact that other non-human intelligences were involved in their creation.

    Over To Paul……

  664. Yes Leah,

    That was surely one of the possibilities. But i wanted to leave it to the disbelievers to ponder about.. 😉
    They may argue about the space travel capability, but they cannot refute the astounding similarities which i pointed out.
    I am waiting to see to whom they credit these structures then.

  665. Yep Leah, Bang On…. The bottom line is that it is NOT co-incidence!
    But what can you expect from the “scientists” ?? i am sure they will just choose to convniently ignore the facts and just latch on to Hoagland and Myers to discredit them and feel satisfied that they have made a good counter-argument….
    Yeah, the futility of providing evidence, you may as well bang your head against a wall! Ask me!

  666. Dear Paul,
    Thank you for the info re galactic year. Its just that the first post conveyed 6 crossings, but the second post conveyed 3 crossings.
    Leah

  667. Andrew: What on earth as all that about?
    To the others: I don’t know why you persist with this 11,000BCE date for the pyramids. There is no evidence for this ludicrous assumption. The world was still recovering from the effects of the Ice Age which had ended around a thousand years earlier. The northern hemisphere while warming very quickly was still an environment that was harsh and humanity can still be considered Palaeolithic. Megalithic builders were still c5,000 away. By megalithic I’m refering to the pyramids, Stonehenge, Sumerian ziggurats etc. not Newgrange, Skara Brae, Avebury, Carnac etc.
    The huge structures of Mexico, Peru and Central America are from around 900 AD to 1400AD give or take.

  668. AMit. There are no artificila structures on Mars. End of story. The ‘Face’ seen on Mars has now been photographed in close up many times and is just a mound of rock and regolith. When photographed from earth the shadows cast because of the angle of the sun and positions of both earth and Mars throws the roughness and wind-cut surfaces into high relief and appear face like. I thought THAT particular stupidity had been cast into the dustbin a long time ago.
    BTW. As someone said a few days ago about me; I have at NO time said that Velikovsky/von Daniken etc should be burned, banned or otherwise kept from the public. All I have done is ask for them to be re-classified, taken out of the science sections and placeed in the fiction/fantasy section. Incidentally more people actually read fantasy than science so perhaps they will be more widely read but read as fiction NOT facts. Venus a former comet. Get a grip.

  669. Science amongst its practicing fraternity , and in explaining their findings, calls “A Spade a Spade”, in other words a Muon is called a Moun by all scientists world wide.

    Rarely do they attach opinions or their own preference to findings to date, and many if not all, know that new incoming data necessitates re-evaluation. Science views discovered similarities and differences, as both being positive and helpful data.

    When people choose to see the skin deep variation between individuals, as being only one variation, and realise we are otherwise physically exactly the same, and the only other variation, which is one of choice, being “what one has faith or belief in”, we will be able to get ahead in leaps and bounds. So long as the onus is on differences, whilst ignoring “same-ness” (because they are not just similarities), it will be as driving a car with handbreak on, and a foot on the pedal brake whilst trying to accelerate.

    Every individual has faith in something, whether it is in their own physical and mental capability, or a belief system propounded by parents, school or what are collectively called religion. Some have faith in Nature. No 2 are exactly the same, each being a different perspective, like the lenses in the Dragon fly’s eye. What could be a coherant overture, is at present cacophony, being dischord.
    When people can accept eachother, they will move forward as one. Why is an event external to the self, e.g. catastrophe, perceived as being the only type that can bring about, peoples everywhere working peacefully together.

  670. Paul,

    Please read carefully… I never said that the Face on Mars is a “face”!!!
    You dont even bother to read the post, you are just skimming through the text and picking up words at random and then replying on the basis of that..
    If you would take out some time to read that post again, i would not need to explain the context in which the term was used…
    Please revert when you have done that.

  671. Leah. Regarding the apparent discrepancy with my maths. The 33 million years is the lowest figure that has been postulated with an upper figure as high as 40 million years per bob, as it were. So 33 x 6 gives 198 million right at the lowest estimate while 40 x 6 gives 240 million somewhere at the top.
    It’s only in the past 30 years that our rotation around the galaxy has been deterimed and initial times were hazy. Vera Rubin was probably the first to recognise that there is a problem relating to galactic rotation due to the extensive halo of normal as well as dark matter beyond the visible ‘ends’ of the disc.

    If you check out the following sites you will get a beter and deeper understanding of the complexities of rotation in even a galaxy such as ours which is in universal terms rather simple.
    http://www.dailygalaxy.com: Says it takes roughly
    37 million years to oscillate and between 200-250 million years for one rotation around the galaxy.

    idiadstars.com says the sun is moving up and down the plane takes 33 million years.
    americanscientist .org states anywhere between 27-36 million years while quoting an amplitude of 230 million years [as I wrote] and crossing the plane every 33 million years.

    For a detailed account of the motion around the galaxy check out this site http://calgary.rasc.ca/howfast.htm#galactic

    33M x 6 = 198
    37M x 6M = 222M
    40M x 6M = 240M

  672. Dear Owain,

    Only word play …..Yes, there have been and will be enough disasters to counter the foolish, that deny the past and future existance of, disasters.
    Leah

  673. Let’s get this straight. There is NO evidence for artificial structures on Mars no matter how much you want there to be. For Hoagland to cite hyperdimensional physics plus the end of the Mayan calendar [yet again!] and christ knows what else all combining to …Jeez words fail me. Marduk this Marduk that, aliens the other. Marduk this Amit. Nothing alien has been discovered, seen, infered on Mars, structures or artifacts. When it is then I’ll believe it.

  674. If I had a penny for every time I heard or read the words “I know what I said….but thats not what I meant” OR “Read between the lines” I’d be a billionaire. So… say precisely what is meant.
    To bob up and down 3 times in comparison to crosses 3 times per galactic year, is a difference of 100%, 3 versus 6 times.

    Appologies Paul, nothing personal, it is just a good example of how easily meaning is changed, and mis-understanding can come about, and is usually unintentional, but never the less can cause problems.

    Many employ ambiguity in varying degrees as tools to create, doubt, dischord and fear etc, whilst retaining the freedom to choose a prefered meaning to propound, sometime in the future, according to their will, and agenda.

  675. Belief in anything whether that is science or religion, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty. That’s what the world should be about.!!!!!

    D.paul Eaton-Jones

  676. In the beginning there was the One, the One who will be in the end. The Earth and heavens were not, and day and night were not, but the One was and will be. Light and dark, the highest and the lowest, all was united in the One.
    But Ialdabaoth the blind Demiurge broke free, proclaiming the word “I am”. And thus disunity was created.

    Ialdabaoth named things, and they were separated from the One. Thus he created the world.

    First Ialdabaoth proclaimed “Let there be Saturn, the first and greatest of the Aeons!”. And the Lord of Time was created, and Ialdabaoth saw that past was separated from future.

    Then Ialdabaoth proclaimed “Let there be Jupiter, the Aeon of Separation!”. And the Lord of Space was created, and Ialdabaoth saw that above was separated from below.

    Then Ialdabaoth proclaimed “Let there be Mars, the Aeon of Destruction!”. And the Lord of Dust was created, and Ialdabaoth saw that decay and imperfection ruled everything.

    Then Ialdabaoth proclaimed “Let there be Mercury, the Aeon of Consciousness!”. And the Lord of the Mind was created, and Ialdabaoth saw that all things were distinguished and named.

    Then Ialdabaoth proclaimed “Let there be the Moon, the Aeon of Spirit!”. And the Queen of the Night was created, and Ialdabaoth saw that the worlds were separated by the abyss of night.

    Then Ialdabaoth proclaimed “Let there be Venus, the Aeon of Life!”. And the Lady of Plants and Beasts was created, and Ialdabaoth saw that all life grew, survived and died in endless cycles.

    Then Ialdabaoth proclaimed “Let there be the Earth, the Aeon of Matter!”. And Gaea, known as the Kingdom, was created. And Ialdabaoth saw that the fragments of the One was trapped within shells of matter and movement, ruled by the urges of Venus, imprisoned by the ring-pass-nots of the Moon, the names of Mercury, the strife of Mars, the labyrinths of Jupiter and the eternities of Saturn. And he proclaimed: “Hereafter disunity will rule to the end of time!”

    But then he heard the voice of Sofia, the wisdom of the One imprisoned within the fragments: “Thou hast spoken the truth, O Lord of Dispersion. Disunity will rule to the end of time, but time itself will once die. One day the aeons themselves will die, and then unity will be restored”. And then the One created the King of the Aeons, the Lord of the Sun, to guide the fragments towards unity.

    One day the Daughter will marry and unite with the shining King, and this will begin the great Reconciliation. The One will gather together and the universe will be reunited.

    In the beginning there was the One, the One who will be in the end.

  677. good morning–all..andrew not annoying–just plain rude…thanks for sharing…

    if scientists answer only to each, then it is a thought that, perhaps, science has its own agenda…its like living in a gated community, and only the residence are privy to the country club…so who benefits from it??? certainly no one who lives outside the confines…we have a much bigger community to invest in…

  678. Hey Paul, I noticed that you mentioned Christ there. Whats that old saying? There are no atheist in a fox hole.

    Nice, let’s do the Chrsit thing. The name (word) Christ come from the greek meaning annointed and the name Jesus comes from the latin word Iesous which came from the Hebrew Jeshua meaning something like saviour. The annointed Saviour.

    There was no one named Jesus Christ. His name was probably Yeshua.

    This is the reason I look at the old testament. The new testament has connected itself with the OT as it used Yahweh as the god father figure via an “angel” blah blah.

    The Yahweh god figure, has been deemed a re-cast name that was attributed all of the sumerian gods doings in the biblical stories in the Hebrews creation of a monoeistic god.

    The speculation is that Yahwhe was actually Enki. You ever heard of Sir Laurence Gardner?

    He’s one of the advocates of this speculation. He’s also advocates alien ancient astronauts.

    He has some really heavy credentials. Not to mention being Knighted.

    Take a look at his site:

    http://graal.co.uk/index.html

    His translation of the Hewbrew Bible in the part where Yahweh is talking to moses and Moses asks Yaheh who should he tell the people sent him.
    God answers Moses I am that I am has sent you.

    Well apparently there are some convinced that being that the Hebrew word for I am is EYAH. They contend that with Moses’s Aramaic mind he may have mistranslated EA for EYAH due to them sounding the same.

    If you are familiar with the story this must have been told to his people at a later date for when Moses came down from the mountain they had screwed up and moses destroys the commandments and he didn’t tell them anything.

    This is a more modernistic translation. It should be considered.

    Its very difficult to prove something that no one wants proven and it seems as if society has spent thousands of years trying to bury.

    I’m not too keen on Sagan but didn’t he say something to the effect that one of saturns moons I think, that he thought it was a hollow satellite that was created as oppose to being a natural occurence. I could be wrong on this though. You’re more familiar with his work, could you enlighten me?

    -R-

  679. Paul, I explained to Leah long ago that names using a lower case L can be cloned in here.

    They use a capital i and it looks like the lower case L and they can then ue your name in here and we can’t tell the difference.

    Its sad really. thats why I use a name with no L’s.

    Good luck, you can either change it to all caps or change your name altogether.

    -Rico-

  680. I have no problem with the existence of a man called Christ who lived in Palestine 2000 years ago. He was just one in a long line of Jewish/Hebrew prophets/teachers and preachers. There is more than enough contemporary Roman and Jewish secular evidence to identify him as such without invoking the heavenly. Should anyone care to accord him heavenly, other worldly, sacred or what ever status then fine.

  681. “Mark my words,” said Biden emphatically. “It will not be six months [after his inauguration] before the world tests Barack Obama like they did John Kennedy….Watch. We’re going to have an international crisis, a generated crisis, to test the mettle of this guy.”

    Whence this certitude? How does Biden know that Obama will face an “international crisis” a “generated crisis” if he becomes president?- C.N.N. oct.13,2008

  682. GDJ: Glad to see another contributor here but how does the above tie in with what we’ve been arguing about?

  683. The Sphynx on the equator if transported to Mars? And the giant volcanoes aligned with Orion’s Belt? My god, it gets worse.

  684. Carl Sagan didn’t rule out the possibility of aliens having landed at some distant point in the earth’s history and nor incidently do I. But as for them having visited during recent prehistory and given us knowledge or manipulated our dna that’s fairy tales. However if conclussive proof is turned up on an archaeological dig then we can reconsider.

  685. I have not tied the one called Christ with anything. The new testament did that.

    I rather believe the involvement of the Essenes in his upbringing and his travels prior to his return and the stories told about the last 3 years of his life.

    I don’t claim anything at all about heavenly things. To me heaven meant the sky of space to the early writers.

    I don’t subscribe to any giant spiritual being that encompases everything and knows everything and all that mystical stuff.

    I believe what I told you. In Genesis Adam hears the footsteps of god in the garden therefore giving him a physical appearance and when god callss to adam and asks him where are you? This tells me that he does not know it all.

    I prefer the somewhat “scientifc” hypothesis that he was a biological being.

    -R-

  686. Funkmaster:
    It will get even worse believe me. The unstructured thoughts that you’ll find here will truly astound you. It’s like something out of the Dark Ages or the Medieval period when fear gripped the people. There was always a disaster coming from …. somewhere. Don’t worry there are enough here to counter the foolish.

  687. Owain, there you go again trying to ally yourself with someone else.

    You were doing great just speaking your mind.

    Notice that Paul has basically disowned you, you look toward any new comer to lean on.

    Lighten up man.

    -R-

  688. In fact Owain, don’t you know? This is OZ. Anything is possible here.

    Leah could be a 50 year old man. I culd be a 15 year old girl.

    What could you be? Anything is possible.

    Did you go to the Laurence Gardner link I posted?

    He’s a loony huh?

    Yeah, anything that don’t fit that comfort zone can’t be real.

    -R-

  689. Can’t say I’ve read anything Paul has written that would lead you to think he’s “disowned” me. He did say he doesn’t know me or have need of acolytes. But then of course the twitterers here would make a link where one doesn’t exist. So it goes.
    I don’t think the rational people here have need of allies unlike the deluded posters here who need each other to back up and support crackpot theories.

  690. I felt vindicated when Barack Obama won the election.

    He will be the most powerfull black man on earth since Pharoe.

    In fact its almost as if Pharoe will be ruling Rome.

    The next four years are gonna be a fun ride, we’re just have deal with the major hurtles that are gonna come our way.

    -R-

  691. I’ll explain when you’ve come down from whatever light-bulb you’re buzzing around.
    A huge number of things now begin look a lot clearer.

  692. You’re a funny guy Owain. You’rea judge, jury, and executioner. You remind me of the old jewish teachers I had in gade schools back in the late 60’s and early 70’s.

    You have an antiquated mind that pretends to believe the status quo. You know nothing about which you condemn. You’re a witch hunter.

    I feel sorry for you. I’ve seen many people in my past get stuck in an earlier mentality.

    Grow up.

    -R-

  693. Dear Paul,
    Thank you for the links.
    According to space agencies, satellites to date have not yet travelled beyond The Milky Way, in any direction. Yet there is a level of certainty re the direction of rotation around the Milky Way of our solar system, in relation to the Milky Way’ s own direction of rotation.
    If the Milky Way and our solar system are rotating in opposite directions, then it would be more accurate to say that it takes approx e.g. 225 million years for a fixed chosen point in the galaxy to line up with our sun on a cyclical basis. If thats the case then, our solar system hasn;t really covered the entire journey under its own steam, as it were, due to the counter rotation of our galaxy contributing to the journey……somewhat like a plane flying from west to east., exept that due to atmosphere, its the jet stream that cuts down jorney time.
    Anyway, its been interesting.
    Leah

  694. I have never set myself up as judge, jury and executioner let alone see myself as such.
    I do not seek to maintain the status quo neither do I have an atiquated mind. My interest is in moving the project forward by using scientific method to investigate ideas and theories. The real pity is that you and the other deluded people who rant on about alien visitations, telekenesis, teleportation, psychic phenomena, ghosts, messages from the Maya about the end of times and lump them all together make it very difficult for legitmate scientists who have some interest in, or even sympathy for, some of these subjetcs are detered from investigating them for fear of ridicule from the wider scientific community. Have you ANY idea how difficult it is for a legitmiate scientist to gain funding for an investigation
    into say telekenesis/far seeing? Any mention of such puts them into the same category as Velikovsky and von Daniken. You forget that von Daniken was a serial fraudster and an amateur and Velikovsky was working far outside his legitimate area of expertise. If you had an idea of the damage you and your brainless hangers on are doing you would stop your blatherings.
    Witch hunter? No.
    Stuck in the past of an earlier mentality? Hardly. I’m not the one clinging to comforting ideas of aliens setting us out on the road to our present condition and that they will come back to rescue us from our current woes any day soon.
    However, if it brings you comfort I ammoe than happy to defend you your right to believe it and anything else you wish. That philosophy is from the Enlightenment and from your founding fathers. Don’t you forget that

  695. Entirely off the subject I’m wondering why Rico feels that Obama is the greatest black man since the pharoah[s]. I’ll take you to task about that – what about one of the greatest persons of the 20th century, Martin Luther King. While it is a cause for rejoicing that Obama was elected Doctor King was a man of enormous personal and intellectual courage whose only concern was a fair deal and equality for the black ciizens of his country. He wasn’t a politician looking for the main chance as no doubt Obama will do.
    Also, and this is a genuine enquiry, why is Obama considered black? Why is Halle Berry considered black? As the product of one black and one white parent they can equally be considered white as a former colleauge of mine did before opting for calling herself mixed race. Is it because people are actually afraid to say Obama and Berry aren’t black?As they say here in Britain, “it political correctness gone mad”.
    ATTENTION: This is NOT a racially inspired question.

  696. Problem is…the title of the article is 2012-No Geomagnetic Reversal.

    Mr O’Neill has kindly written several articles, including this one, re 2012, not as general articles about the underlying subject.

  697. Paul and Owain I don’t know how you carry on wiith this battle in fact I don’t know why you continue. You’re bashing your heads against a brick wall with some of these people. It’s quite obvious from reading what they’ve posted over the past few weeks they have no real interest or appreciation of science and as you’ve said scientific rigour.
    They persist in saying there is a load of evidence for ancient science and repeatedly either refuse to show it or as I suspect cannot show it. Their links to websites are, as someone said earlier, simply self-supporting, self-validating. So too the little community they have established here. I feel this is a pity because the sheer effort they put in and skills they have could be far better utilised in pursuit of, shall we say, real scientific achievement and dissemination of same. Drop the Velikovsky schtick and they may get a better reception here.

  698. If interested in scientific aspect only, of a given subject, respectfully suggest avoiding article titles containing….2012, and any reference to ancient civilisations etc.

    If this article was meant to be a general one about Geomagnetic Reversal…..why why why include 2012 in the title.

  699. BTW, ALL 5 artcles contain 2012 in the thier titles. THis article contains words such as Planet X, Niburu, Mayan Prophecy, and
    a question:
    So do you think there will be a geomagnetic reversal event in 2012 ?

    Dear purely scientific minded people, you cannot choose to amputate part of the title, according to your preferences, nor can you hijack the subject….or give it a makeover….its not your article.

  700. Have just spent a weird time looking at the No Doomsday in 2012 thread. The nutters are at it over there as well. Someone had it right further up the page – they’re a bunch of viruses with shoes. Is it possible to find a site or thread where these people aren’t posting?

  701. There are some very strange people on this thread and elsewhere posting rubbish.

    Amit, JAT, Espumpin and Rico are clearly clearly committed to their cause no matter how wrong and deluded it is. However commitment doesn’t mean it is correct. The whole idea of alien intervention, the Velikovsky rubbish, the Mayan calendar predicting that some cataclysm will happen just as their counting runs etc etc etc is total garbage no matter how long and loud the “true believers” shout it out. There is nothing to any of their claimsThe above four aren’t really worth deriding. Constantly arguing with them only makes them believe they have something important and vital to pass on. They should be ignored at every possible opportunity.
    As for Raven Turcotte this person claims to be an academic who has worked for NASA. We wouldn’t employ anyone who writes as she does and I doubt NASA would unless in a lowly position. Some of the science she writes is pure garbage and delusional and undermines her case by including as soon as possible most of the rubbish posted by Amit and co.
    The mindless utterances of Becky and Leah defy believe. A series of severely disjointed phrases and words presented in a rambling way DO NOT amount to philosophical insights. Your 2-3 word posting wouldn’t make it into the cheapest Christmas crackers or discounted fortune cookies. They are the ramblings of the worst sort usually found in 18 year olds at school who suddenly discover ‘sensitivity’, and how cool they think it is to appear ‘deep’
    and ‘insightful’. All of you keep your mindless drivelling to yourselves.

    The scientists here should stop encouraging them. You too should know better.

  702. gordy–probably not–after all, it is a WorldWideWeb…and thank you so much for your kindness…a “nutter” is the nicest thing anyone has called me in days!!!!

    it’s hard to discuss anything with “blind eyes and deaf ears”…i learn more about people, from how they post, than i learn from the content of their posts…the bottom line here is that we all put our socks on the very same way—one foot at a time…and if we have shoes–so much the better…we are very lucky…

    no one is forcing anyone else to be here…and if you keep coming back–then that’s on you…something is drawing you back…what is it????? the distain for what you read here????

  703. Becky these guys are “crusaders” for what they call “pure science”.

    They really believe that they are superheroes that must destroy anyone whose thinking differs from their own.

    Its one of the difficiencies that we have in blogs and chat. Anyone can be anything they want.

    So they’re scientist. My cousin is the head research scientist at AMGEN here in Puerto Rico and I assure you that she wouldn’t be caught dead in this blog.

    If I ever go to a new blog I’m gonna just have fun with these guys. You know, really pull their pricks by pretending and making shit up so that they can pull their own hairs outta their heads while typing curses at me.

    In America we have this saying. Its called a “Wannabe” You know, as in want to be.

    What we have here is a bunch of wannabe scientist.

    Have fun ladies,

    -R-

  704. Becky Owain explained that the visions reported by biblical figures were proven to be induced by Ergot. This is the equivalent of LSD. It comes baking Rye bread improperly or some shit like that.

    How can you argue with a mentality like that?
    How limited and submissive can you be to subscribe to every theory you hear and even apply it to other events as an explanation?

    You can’t argue with that. If they don’t have a biblical knowledge you literrly have to start from the begining.

    Forget it. I’m not here to educate people. especially people that don’t want it.

    I’ll just watch these guys hop around here.

    -R-

  705. Unfortunately Von Daniken and Veikovsky have given rise to no end of similar writers who have taken hold of the crackpot theories and fraudulent claims proposeed by those authors and developed them. They have incorporated all sorts of ideas both scientific, albeit twisted versions of science, and lunatic New Age thinking and presented them as fact. As Paul or Owain said a while ago they have done the ancient cultures a disservice by implying they weren’t able to construct megalithic structures without alien help or that their myths, legends and theology had to be evidence of aliens visitations. As far as I can find there isn’t one credible archaeologist, astronomer or historian who will give these theories houseroom. A theory is a theory until subjected to rigorous, repeatable experiments and absolute undeniable proof. This is what the other guys are trying to get through to you all. Bollocks to what they’re saying at a personal level read what they’re saying about the scientific method.

  706. Wow!!! Where did Kevin appear from?? A bit harsh that.
    And not one of my followers I assure you.

  707. @ Stpehn

    They persist in saying there is a load of evidence for ancient science and repeatedly either refuse to show it or as I suspect cannot show it.

    The rest of the crap you wrote doesn’t bear rebutting. You didn’t say anything.

    I don’t know what you’ve been reading but we all agree on ancient science. Its a matter of where it camee from. The Pyramids were scientifically constructed or didn’t you know?

    There were astronomically constructed buildings as far back as sumer.

    Do you………Understand now Stephen?

    Or……..Should…………I ……………..Type……..Slower?

    -R-

  708. The Maya calendar is a calculator Stephen.

    Any scientist will explain that it calculates a time period. Thats science. Ancient science.

    I can do this all day. I just hope we don’t get too manay of your cronies in here saying things like you that don’t make sense. I can school you all day. I don’t have time for 20 knuckleheads though.

    Be sure to THINK for yourself Stephen otherwise you fall for some other persons bullshit and you fail to explain it because you didn’t actually learn it. Just repeated it.

    Ancient science indeed.

    -R-

  709. @ Stephen

    As Paul or Owain said a while ago they have done the ancient cultures a disservice by implying they weren’t able to construct megalithic structures without alien help or that their myths, legends and theology had to be evidence of aliens visitations. As far as I can find there isn’t one

    Stephen I agree with you 100%.

    I won’t take the credit away from them. Tell me, how they did they do it? How did they build structures back then in locations that should we attempt to do today with modern equipment. We wouldn’t be able to do.

    Explain this to me. And when you cannot explain it. Go learn about those ancient people and see what they say.

    Thats all. I take no credit away from then. They accomplished great feats.

    I’ve heard tell that nessesity is the mother of invention. It must have been very difficult building those structures under such harsh cnditions back in those days right?

    I wonder what the NEED was for them to construct temples dedicated to gods.

    Can you tell me any reason why they would go to all that trouble to build temples?

    These were the very first religions Stephen. Don’t you think they bear looking into?

    The origin of religion !!!!!!! Wouldn’t science love to discover this and finally put an end to it?

    Wouldn’t you like to tell me: Look!! We discovered your god and he’s such and such!!

    That would shut up so many science detractors wouldn’t it?

    But science can’t do that due to the moral and world changing implications. Paul will explain why.

    When science explains god. You will have your proof of alien intervention.

    Or maybe you’d like to take a scientific crack at explaining god? Something more scientific maybe?

    -R-

  710. Kevin was the same a Andrew. He didn’t anything but blah blah blah. Read it again.

    No one cares about his oipinion on how the blog is going.

    Give an opinion on the subjects being discussed otherwise its just blah blah.

    C’mon Paul. Read his post again. It was shot from the cheap seats.

    -R-

  711. All your friends are here now Owain.

    I already answered you Marcus. Refer to my earlier post about people that talk about my character. It applys to you.

    -R-

  712. The man also has no idea of the meaning of breeding in this context. The English have word for such characters – a cad.
    His appalling attacks on Owain and Paul, and to a lesser extent Stephen, shows he has no breeding. An even better word describes him, he is a boundah. A trifle old fashioned but sums him up.

  713. Nobody here of a scientific persuasion is trying to hijack, amputate or makeover the article. It HAS been hijacked by those who insist that there is truth in the ridiculous notion that the end of the Mayan calendar is in some way tied in with the so called re-appearance of Planet X/Niburu that will result in a geomagnetic pole reversal.
    Now I’m not averse to discussing any or all of these ideas separately but definitely not as one being a consequence of this which leads to another and it’s all because some scribe in Sumer said Enki was annoyed with the peoples of the earth and if the great flood didn’t make them behave then I’ll be back at an indeterminate time in the future and will save Amit, JAT, Espumpin and not forgetting good old Rico, as if we could.
    That’s all.
    Happy trails.

  714. Anyway enough for now as I’m tuning my computer to listen to our heroic boys taking on the Danes at football.I know Paul doesn’t log in during the week but I hope you’re listening too. Hwyl!!

  715. Dear Amit,
    Its good to be respectful on the way up, as one never knows who one will meet on the way down.
    Its human to fear what isn’t understood. Shoot first, ask questions later syndrome.
    I hope you and your family are well.
    Leah

  716. Dear Just a Thought,

    Yup…got 2 ears and one mouth, means listen at least twice as much as one speaks.
    Hope you are well.
    Leah

  717. Hello Freinds,

    I am sure Paul will be grinning from ear to ear seeing the posts by his friends (Not Followers)….
    I would like to thank Kevin Williams, Marcus and a few others for the compliments they have been showering on us. I never had the pleasure of so many people trying to decipher my character and my mentality!
    And as for using one’s time towards better ends, i think it applies more to these “Scientists”, or Crusaders as my Brother Rico said. Instead of trying to deride all of us with your stupid comments , you could try to hold a valid argument by putting up some proofs to back your own beliefs..
    Anyone going through this thread will see how many proofs we have lined up, and they are veruy scientific in nature, replete with calculations etc wherever applicable, but these guys never bother to reply about those….
    If you just hide the name of the posters, All these Kevins and Marcuses, Pauls and Owains will be indistingiushabl from each other!

  718. Yes, Owain, even we are happy to see you coming out of your “Closets” … Maybe you will see the “light” now!
    But dont be afraid if you get blinded by it for a few moments, you wil be alright after some time!

  719. Marcus,

    Dont discuss people here as if you are writing about Horses!
    This term is used only in context of Horses and Dogs these days… Was used for humans in victorain era literature.. But man, that was so long ago!
    Guess you were also there in Owain’s closet, thats why you are so oblivious to civilised vocabulary..
    Maybe you need some “training” ….

  720. Yeah Rico/Leah,

    Even i am not sure why these people hang on, when they are apparently so disgusted by our comments..
    We may be Viruses with Shoes, but these guys dont seem to have much spine themselves either!

  721. Rico,.

    Since Marcus is so fond of using single words to describe people.. I have one word from him… “Impudent” .

    And guess what, there was a great man, a Roman, unfortunately with the same name as our good friend.. He made a quotation, which i would like to present to you with respect to our friend Marcus here —

    “When you are outraged by somebody’s impudence, ask yourself at once, Can the world exist without impudent people?” It cannot; so do not ask for impossibilities.”

    — Marcus Aelius Aurelius Antonius

  722. I am coming to terms with the methodology of these “Scientists” now.. Anything they cannot refute with conviction is classified as “Bull$hit” … And the all the scientists who differ from the views that they support are “lunatics” and “Fraudsters” …..
    Closet indeed!

  723. Rico,

    “When science explains god. You will have your proof of alien intervention.”

    This was an excellent statement brother! This is the entire case, in a nutshell….

  724. Leah,

    With respect to thsi post of yours —

    Leah Says:
    November 19th, 2008 at 11:59 am
    Problem is…the title of the article is 2012-No Geomagnetic Reversal.

    Mr O’Neill has kindly written several articles, including this one, re 2012, not as general articles about the underlying subject.

    Another thing worth mentioning is that all these articles are Filed Under 2012… When you go to the article now, it says at the bottom – “Filed Under 2012”, and 2012 is Hyperlinked….

  725. As this spirals downward it points to a sad end.
    What happened to the free exchange of ideas?
    What does it mater where one is from (don’ ask, don’t tell) or if they choose to “out” themselves ? (altho that was brave)
    Feel free to whine for my expression of ideas but on my planet it is well known you can learn more by listening than talking.

  726. Leah,
    Thank you, hope you and yours are well also.
    There is much to be learned if we could get past ourselves.

  727. Right Said Leah,

    It was also said the persons who we meet on the way up (Those that we trample), are sure to greet us on our way down too…..
    I life i follow the Golden Rule always….

    Over here, i just could not tolerate the mountain of insults that this unruly bunch of scientists was piling upon my friend Rico…

    I had to reply to them… But as you must have noticed, i have never used any bad words…

  728. Dear Kevin,
    Or Kevin Williams ? We have studied archeology…..who do you imagine discovered the Sumerian Ta#lets, the Dead sea Scrolls, and all other artifacts we’ve mentioned to date….ARCHEOLOGISTS.

    We have studied the sciences, E. g. Einstein’s work…..obviously, as you consider Archeology a bogus science, so it fallows you consider Theoretical Mathematics and Physics bogus too.

    What is bogus, e.g. is every pictiure flaunted of the Milky Way. Here’s an opportunity for you to bring yours and your team’s complete universal knowlege, which is so superior that you make statements re the employability of anyone on this thread…..to proove what is known as fact re the Milky Way, even if it is only re the pictures.

    Absolutely NO conjecture, NO theories, NO suppositions, NO assumptions……..PLEASE.
    Keep it to STRICTLY FACTS, that do not and cannot change. Like rain falls from the sky, towards Earth.

  729. Owain,

    “….know Paul doesn’t log in during the week”

    Either a lack of attention to detail, or deliberate with a view to baiting others.
    Not a question….no reply necessary.

  730. JAT. Free exchange of ideas is fine. But surely ideas that can be properly substantiated. If not anyone can say I have an idea that pixies are real. Etc etc.

  731. PJ
    This is true,
    they may even say that they have an idea that they know something about me.
    UNsubstantiated.

  732. Further to the above. There should be absolutely NO stifling of debate on any subject. All I and some of the others of a scientific persuation have asked is that what we refer to as dubious contentions are explored using proven scientific applications and that these dubious contentions are discussed on the appropriate fora whether that is history, archaeology or alien intervention sites.

  733. While I have no wish to speak for Marcus I think he used the word breeding not in the context of breeding animals but rather as someone who acts with decorum and is cultured.
    Am I and others here crusaders? Yes. Crusading for a rational approach to investigating certain phenomena. But please do not write it as Crusaders. That word has dreadful historical and religious connotations that I personally do not wish to be associated with.
    BTW. Paul. Good win last night. Don’t fancy our chances against the All Blacks on Saturday.

  734. Understood,
    I have found that there is much information misunderstood because of the abrasive or condescending manner the info. is presented.

  735. I have a picture of Amit, Rico, Espumpin and JAT sat in their attics wearing helmets made from aluminium cooking foil with a little hole in the back for the little pig-tail favoured by Billy Ray Cyrus to poke through.
    That will stay in your collective minds every time you see their posts.
    Having fun listening to the posts with the computer-generated voice reading them out. The above have the voice of a 6 year old girl and it comes across as though they’re in the middle of a tantrum; Paul and Owain as wise sages getting slightly pissed off with students who cannot grasp the concepts being presented to them; Marcus is obviously a retired brigadier and some of the others as naughty schoolboys shouting at the deaf senior masters.
    I know it’s ultimately a waste of time but it’s good fun and is entertaining various colleagues here.
    Toodle-loo.

  736. kevin–while laughing so hard at others, i truly hope you and your colleagues are having a good “belly roll” over yourselves, as well…at some point in time, even the “master” was a student…and as a student, the questions he posed while learning will become evident when he teaches…a master is not “all knowing and all seeing”…i dare say that even a master can still learn from his students…letters after your name, or certificates on your wall does not mean that you have learned all there is to learn in that particular field…they, too are “dated”…and science has advanced far after the date on that certificate…your thinking AND LEARNING should not end with that date…..

  737. …it just means that you are qualified “to date” …. perhaps you should “update” the certificates…

  738. one final thought–then that’s it for me for today…living and thinking “outside the box” has afforded me (speaking solely for myself) a luxury that those inside the box will never have…there is a HUGE world out there, and it is full of surprises…in these times, i cannot imagine being stuck in a box…

    thank you all for your kind indulgence…best wishes to you all…

  739. Our research goes on all the time Becky. We never stand still otherwise we end up quoting old and or discredited research and ideas. We, and on a personal level I too, are out of the box thinkers believe it or not [and some here won’t think that but what the hell]As was stated above if Amit and co devoted their undoubted talents and natural inquisitiveness to science/archaeology etc that is established or new/cutting edge they would serve everyone much better. They are not stupid people. Their reluctance to see that their pursuit of discredited theories or unprovable theories is a shame.
    As for laughing at people we can certainly laugh at ourselves here. Sometimes our laughter has covered our embarrassment.
    I’m quite sure however that what I’ve just said will bring down a heap of abuse. But we can play it through our machines for a laugh. That part REALLY is just innocent fun even if the rest may not be.

  740. Marcus, Stephen, Kevin.

    Not one of you cyphers have contributed anything of even partial substance to this forum.

    If Amit, Leah, myself, Espumpin, or any of the regulars that you’re bitching about weren’t here. You wouldn’t be here either.

    You only come here to offer insults and such.

    Paul is the only one here that speaks for himself and can defend his ideas.

    You morons can’t defend your ideas because you have none.

    You don’t even understand what Paul is saying.

    Cyphers and losers. You guys have been wighed and found wanting.

    Prove me wrong. Direct us all to an earlier post where Stephen, or Markus, or Owain, or Kevin say anything at all about the subject.

    Point out on this thread where any one of you dumb fucks posted anything of substance.

    None of you belong here. You have nothing to say.

    I can’t do this much longer Leah. I find myself posting stupid stuff like this.

    We should follow Pauls advice and move. Even Paul won’t stay here once we leave.

    There will be no one left just a randon straggler once in a while.

    Its crap. Its a waste of time.

    These guys are a bunch of low life losers. You know the type. They laugh when an old woman slips and falls.

    I should have just left when Owain explained his summary of the OT.

    Cyphers.

    Let me know people.

    -R-

  741. Kevin what Ideas have you posted?
    All I seen from you are opinions on our ideas.
    You haven’t presented anything.

    In fact you actually admit that you’re here for fun.

    Some people go fishing, some people play ball. You enjoy sitting at your terminal insulting people. Thats fun?

    You say “Our research goes on all the time. You’re a liar. Speak for yourself.

    You people have been spouting velikovsky. Thats old, partially discredited material.

    You haven’t kept up with archeological discoveries. In fact you personally haven’t said anything scientific in here.

    Speak for yourself. Owain tried the same tactic using Paul and Paul said he didn’t know Owain.

    Whos we Kevin?

    LOL @ delusions of a scientific team going around the forums spreading the light.

    Dude, what can I say? You’re not a scientist.
    You’re a cypher, a nobody. a wannabe.

    Enlighten us with your credentials!! Tell us how you studied at MIT or some highly accredited University.

    Thats what I thought.

    Another ex rugby player that misses his days under the pile of guys.

    Unreal,

    -R-

  742. Amit: When we meet aliens face to face or receive unambiguous evidence via SETI or something similar that will not be proof of god.
    We as scientists don’t refute everything we can’t explain as bullshit. Quantum tunnelling defies all logic but we don’t call it bullshit because we can’t explain it. It happens, it works. Great. There are many similar occurrences that science can’t fully explain. Scientists who hold contrary views from each other are definitely not considered or refered to as “lunactics” or “fraudsters”. The fraudster refered to was Erich von Daniken who was a convicted fraidster. There are certainly examples of fraudulent practice in science – witness the Korean who claimed to have made advances in cloning techniques, cold fusion [though that wasn’t strictly a fraud], Piltdown Man from the 1930’s. And there are many more. However once these frauds, mis-directions or plain mistakes are seen to be such they are sidelined and not persued. This is why some of here are persistent in our attempts to point out the futility of putting ones trust in the heirs to the discredited theories put forward by Velikovsky etc.

  743. Kevin calls Owain a wise sage !! WTF!!??

    Dude, you are a moron.

    You should be laughing all the time to cover your embarrasment the way you put it.

    Owains only imput in this thread was a joke.
    He said that the Old testament was a collection of ancient Israels prophesies.

    That can’t even be consided an opinion.

    He simply showed his ass with that remark. He proved his ignorance.

    And you Kevin, by supporting Owain and calling him a sage. Have shown yourself to be a moron.

    I’ll leave it at that.

    -R-

  744. I can only go by what Astro Physics has produced in the way of data, to date. Its maintained that the speed of Earth’s rotation on its axis, has been slowing down. If true it effects the results of carbon dating.

    As a day is 1 rotation of Earth, a 24 hour period is in reality 24 x 15 degrees of rotation. Expressed geometrically, time is not dependant on speed, or size of object rotating. If we had decided to divide our day which is 360 degrees, into 18 hours instead of 24 hours…..each hour would be equal to 20 degress of rotation.

    Irrespective of the speed at which Earth rotates, 15 degrees of rotation is peceived as an hour and 360 degrees as a day.

    Even if Earth’s speed of rotation were to increase drastically, people would convince themselves of such things as….can’t be sleeping well, or must be getting old and slow, must be to do with absolutely everything, just not that Earth could be rotating on its axis at an increased speed.

    15 or 360 degrees of rotation cannot be measured by a clock. So how long is an hour in reality….however long as it takes to rotate through 15 degrees at a given speed but not limited to any one speed, therefore time is variable as it is relative to speed.

  745. In my rush to post and keep my eye on work I should have said Paul appears to only contribute during the day time and also not at weekends. Quite correct – a lack of attention to detail.

  746. I understand that Paul, but I think that to discard everything that Velikovsky, Sithchin etc wrote on the subject is premature.

    I think it merits more research and we’re both aware that the reasearch is ongoing.

    I don’t want to be a man that thinks all problems could be solved by reference to reavealed wisdom.

    I like to think and analyze and see what makes sense.

    There are many leading artifacts, painted walls that look like space men in suits, stelae with what appear to be gods in alien pod type of craft. But I don’t bring them up as evidence. However when you add them all up you develope a picture.

    We see things differently.

    -R-

  747. You know, when I was at work I played a little game called minigolf. It was jippigolfers minigolf. Just two balls and between 3-10 courses. I was in several ladder leagues.

    Very addictive and very challenging.

    -R-

  748. Leah. The rotation of the earth and length of the day shouldn’t really affect the carbon dating. Carbon dating is basically the proportion of of C14 to normal atmospheric C12. May I suggest a quick google or dip into a physics book for a full explanation.
    I’ll get back to you about the earth’s rotation and length of day and the division of the globe and sky into 15* per hour.

  749. Dear Kevin,
    Thanks for making your view in the sciences clear. In no poat did I write….” if its only a picture it doesb’t exist”…..please re-read the post., I didn’t even use the word EXIST in relation to pictures of the Milky Way.

    I’m interested in what you glean from all the archeological artefacts, including the Sumerian Ta#lets, as to what they are conveying.

    To Gordy,
    2012 leads in the title….therefore the article is 2012 specific in relation to Geomagnetic reversal. You could write to Mr O’Neill and ask, in what context he wrote, and intended the article to be read.

    How many years have you spent in the Geological, Minerological and Gemmological field ?

    How can you tell from a clock, or sundial for that matter, at what actual speed the 15 or 360 degrees was travelled at ? Not an assumed speed from a textbook ?

    BTW, it is not for any one to decide who can write, or who must go. Naturally, opinions are like backsides, everyone’s got one, which includes every one on this blog too.
    Further, you do not have to “wade through” any posts written by anyone, you are free to choose…..so why are you complaining about something you chose to do. So, skip my posts, or is it curiosity.
    If you don’t understand the content of a post, it does not mean that others don’t, and its not for you to try and convince them of such. Its a human failing to tear down what they don’t understand.
    Attention to detail I would have thought, is of tantamount importance, particularly in any of the sciences. Re not sleeping for 40 hours, I even gave the reason.

  750. Dear Owain,
    Physicist…Hui Chen and the work re Dark matter etc…..relevant to the Nasa article.
    Be well, Leah

  751. Leah.
    I happen to be a trained archaeologist who has spent 40 years in the field. E.g. northern France studying the La Tene culture specifically the La Tene III [contributed Stead, late of the British Museum, who established a connection between the La Tene III culture and the inhabitants of N.E. Yorkshire]; studied Near Eastern civilisations of Sumer, Assyria & Catal Huyuk; Mycenae as well as various Palaeolithic sites.
    So, Leah, I do not consider archaeology a bogus science which is why I’m bloody furious at people like Rico etc who constantly quote Sumerian creation myths [which are common to EVERY culture] as evidence of alien visitations. Neither do I consider physics, differential geometry, topology or pure mathematics as bogus. I do however consider the theories proposed by Rico and friends for the most part totally bogus. That is the THEORIES not necessarily the people.
    I can’t believe for one moment you consider the milky way to be bogus because you see only pictures as you put it. What do you mean by that? If it’s only a picture it doesn’t exist? I’m surprised the astronomers here haven’t pick you up on that. No doubt they as well as I would like an explanation for that.
    Over to you.

  752. To Rico. The voices we employ the computer to read the various posts make Owain sound like a sage. That is because both he and Paul are the only ones here who don’t rant and their posts read as considered responses and statements. Concisely written posts as opposed to a disjointed melange of posts submitted by most other respondents = a sage-like quality in comparison.
    JAT is given the voice of the Trinoids.

  753. I’m not a rugby player.
    I don’t know Paul, Owain, Marcus or any of the other debunkers of your deluded theories. The “we” I refer to, as have a number of other posters, are those in the scientific community who have looked at evidence you support and found it wanting as it’s rubbish. As has been said before you, Amit etc don’t appear to be stupid, far from it in fact, it’s just the ideas you insist on stuffing down people’s throats is stupid.

  754. We’re just trying to clear you out of a site that’s for astronomy/space flight/discoveries in space etc NOT history/religion/archaeology. and certainly not for ludicrous theories about the end of the world becaus ehte poles are going to flip. If you do decide to go it will leave it free for those who have legitimate things to say. If you want to contribute to that sort of debate fine, please stay. Perhaps some others like Paul Owain Stephen etc want you to stay anyway.

  755. hi, guys!!! how is everyone today???

    kevin, thank you for your nov 20 reply to me…i did detect a note of humility there, and i thank you for that…

    however, it is still my thought that “amit and co” are not the “bad guys” here … leah, amit, rico, JAT and espumpin all continue to ask very legitimate questions…and MAKE VERY VALID POINTS…the big one for me is why Mr.O’neil continues to open the door to 2012 in all of his articles… the scientific community here continues to dance around that issue…it is also my thought that if you have no answers, cannot make a connection in any way, or just do not care…it would be advantageous to say just that….”don’t know and don’t care”….if you don’t know–then we have finally reached a common ground (and we are finally all in this boat together) if you don’t care–the boat will sail anyway…with or without you…

    will now re-reference leah’s 11-19 posts made at 11:59am, 12:12pm, 12:25pm, —amit’s 11-19 8:58pm post….and all the other still unaddressed questions in between?????? by the way, leah–great point about the 15 degrees of rotation…paul, thank you for taking that under consideration.

    okay, scientific community–the ball is in your court–but be nice!!!

  756. Personally I’d like to see the back of them. As was said a few days ago having to wade through all the deluded rants of Rico, Amit and co as well as the mind-numbing ramblings that Becky and Leah like to think of as deep philosophical insights to get to anything worthwhile is becoking a task akin to anything that Gilgamesh undertook.
    What for the love of sanity was all that stuff about the earth’s rotation and even if Earth’s speed of rotation were to increase drastically, people would convince themselves of such things as….can’t be sleeping well, or must be getting old and slow, must be to do with absolutely everything, just not that Earth could be rotating on its axis at an increased speed.
    15 or 360 degrees of rotation cannot be measured by a clock. So how long is an hour in reality….however long as it takes to rotate through 15 degrees at a given speed but not limited to any one speed, therefore time is variable as it is relative to speed.
    All over the place – it doesn’t make any sense.
    DITTO this extract.
    the stone was carved / worked upon. There is no tech that can tell when the carving was done…..just can’t be older than the stone itself……but wait……minerals grow, so one needs to calculate the age of the stone in the quarry etc…..as the age of a quarried piece of stone is not indicative of the age of the entire quarry location.
    Even then, one can not carbon date etc, when the stone was quarried.

    Of course the age of the quarried stone is indicative of the entire quarry location. Your assertion that crystals grow thus altering the age is ludicrous. You obviously have no idea of geology, mineralogy etc. If you don’t know then ask. By asking you will learn and not make howlers such as this. You said at some point you don’t sleep and hadn’t slept for 40 hours. That probably accounts for some of the more far-out posts you’ve submitted. Go bother one of the many blogs that love mindless, aimless meandering thoughts. I suggest a crystal powers, crystal gazing site. And take Becky along as well. Another with a mind so open it could be the Canadian tundra – bare an dfeatureless.
    Blithering idiots the lot of you.

  757. gordy–i did not launch a personal attack on you, and i would appreciate the same consideration from you, as well…forgive me if you do not deem me qualified to speak, but i, sir, am most qualified to learn…i will not apologize for my ignorance to you or anyone else…i am here asking to be taught….i repectfully remind you that primitive life forms such as slugs and grubs live under rocks, and i respectfully invite you to return to the rock from whence you came!!!!!

  758. Dear Skywatcher,

    Am more than happy to accept as fact, that our orbit around the sun has been constant since the formation of the solar system, if absolute proof is furnished. How do you propose to proove this as fact, or did you base your comment on assumed data ?

  759. Gordy. That was harsh and not really called for.
    Saw the cosmic ray article a couple of days ago. Quite interesting especially if it can be proved that they originate from the possible decay or interaction of dark matter.

  760. Becky. You say Amit & co. make valid points. Like where? All I see is a constant repetition of discredited theories or theories that are not or cannot be substantiated. It makes for boring reading and I see why some stay here to argue the toss. They explain why the theories are wrong and all they get in return is an even louder rant. One can hardly blame them for getting angry. The abuse from some is a bit much though.

  761. Gordy. Right on the money my man. Hippy-drippy meandering gobbledegook. No sense, no reason just a string of meaningless phrases that have little or connection to the main thrust of the thread or article. No doubt in their own tight, little world that they inhabit they feel they are the founts of wisdom.

    From Leah: An ancient text that quotes someone living to be say 1000 years old, would really be stating, 1000 complete orbits of the Sun. Without knowing the speeds of those orbits, we don’t know how much of our time that 1000 years is relative to, within our present frame of reference of 24 hours=1 day, and 365.25 days = 1 year.
    What do you mean we don’t know how much of our time that 1000 years is relative to, within our present frame of reference…..
    That make absolutely no sense at all. For one thing the orbits have remained the same since the solar system was formed.
    By a book on astronomy and learn something before making statements like this. They are completely meaningless.
    At least some of the questions you ask that have been answered by Paul are valid unlike Becky who obviously just writes down the first set of words that cross her mind.
    Jesus!

  762. Hi PeopleZz !!

    I just popped in a sec to see if anyone has posted anything on gomagnetic reversal by 2012.

    I guess not.

    I’ll look again tomorrow. I’m gonna watch Dave with Eddie Murphy.

    -R-

  763. @ Kevin,
    We’re just trying to clear you out of a site that’s for astronomy/space flight/discoveries in space etc NOT history/religion/archaeology. and certainly not for ludicrous theories about the end of the world becaus ehte poles are going to flip.

    I have a quick qestion, what does 2012 have to do with astronomy/archeologyspace?

    The date is indicative of the 2012 of the maya in fact it states this in the subject matter above. If this site in fact was designed to draw only dicussion on the subjects that you suggest it would have never employed the 2012 date in the title. On the contrary. It is specifically designed to draw us here.

    Thats my opinion.

    -R-

  764. good morning–all…this mind devoid of substance would love to be filled with something other than SPECULATION…too many variables for me…so sorry you feel the way you do…

  765. Well, its the weekend. I guess the scientist here have gone home for the weekend.

    I’ll wait till they get back behind their desk and start posting wisdom once again on monday morning.

    May Toth reign supreme!!

    -R-

  766. Science books do not equal wisdom. In other words, all forms of scientific text no matter how eloquently stated, cannot actually grant wisdom to the reader, merely through the act of reading. Words are only the representations of things, but not the things themselves. All of the most widely followed scienses texts from the Astro, the Bio, the mathematics, the sayings of Newton and the practices of Enistein, are but written attempts to convey various authors’ conceptions. Each attempts to convey the same essence, speaking of the underlying Truth through differing means. Each is a path, and all paths lead ultimately to God/Truth. Yet regardless of how well each system or person may or may not describe Truth, their essential value to the reader is only as great as ones’ personal investment in Spiritual/Scientific Facts. It is our personal experience, application and intention toward greater wisdom, that allows us to progress, regardless of what we have read. Therefore it is not the reading about Thermo dynamics nor even the most advanced Scientific studies, which provide insight into life.

  767. G.D.J., I agree with you 100%.

    The thing is, if you take a scientic look at the Bible, the Vedas, the Koran, and other cultures religious scriptures we get a picture.

    This what I’ve been saying all along. All of the ancient scriptures from different cultures sometimes thousands of miles apart describe basically the same feats by these beings.

    If you only study the relgious aspect or if you only study the scientific aspect you don’t get far. You get stuck with dogma from either one.

    But if you study both, it presents a clearer picture.

    Science + Religion = Answers.

    -R-

  768. All the ancient writings describe flying vehicles with beings at the controls. Sometimes even in aerial battles.

    Now I understand that these wriings have been around before cars.

    Some scholars today agree that they seem to represent superior technology in some way.

    It really doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see the pattern left world wide.

    I just say it cannot be dismissed just like that
    beacause it doesn’t comform to reavealed wisdom.

    Kevin I’m going to be honest with you. I don’t care what you think about whose post in here satisfies you. Especially as I consider you a poor judge of character referring to Owain as a sage and saying he’s been posting anything of substance.

    I’m not here to saisfy you dude. Get a girl.

    If you know what I post then just skip my part of thread, don’t read it Its not mandatory.

    As I said before, when science explains the existance of God, you’ll have your ancient astronaut evidence.

    Science isn’t in a rush, why should I or you be? Wait for it.

    -R-

  769. E=mc2, 1905 Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity, that mass and energy are equivalent.
    Finally, all scientists will be able to believe the theory, as after over 100 years, the theory has been corroberated by French, German and Hungarian physicists.

    Was Einstein and his theory acceptable, and taken seriously because of the letters after his name ? Yes. Had he not had qualifications (permission to study and understand) his theory would not have been taken seriously until a much later point in time, and someone else with letters after their name would have laid claim to the theory.

    Whenever a new theory / possibility is proposed, the first question is “Are you qualified”, wrather than “What is it”.
    Knowlege and study do not live exclusively in Universities, nor does anyone need permission from anybody to learn.

  770. What about the alignment of our Sun, Earth, and the Milky Way, will it not cause this geomagnetic reversal? They have predicted this will happen in 2012.

  771. QED. Because it flew in the face of Newton, they didn’t follow through……not because the math was wrong, probably due to fear of peer opinion.
    Check out where and when Einstein got his degrees. PATENT clerk to earn a living at the time, and lack of fame…..has nothing to do with it….he graduated in 1900 from ETH with a degree in Physics.

    Qualification is not proof re the depth of understanding or ability to utilise said knowlege…….it prooves attendance, and the ability to pass exams on the day. Proof comes with putting the knowlege into action.

  772. Richie.
    The sun, earth and milky way are ALWAYS in alignment. We are are two thirds of the way out from the galactic centre which is in the direction of the constellation of Sagittarius and marked on maps of the milky way as Sag A*. Rest assured, the geomagnetic poles will NOT reverse in 2012. Please do not be taken in by the garbage that certain postings have contained. They are not scientists much less astronomers.

  773. Skywatcher has written as WE, ( a representative of all scientists ?), and has stated their qualification, being an Astronomer that considers others here “not qualified to comment”, BUT considers THEMSELVES qualified to comment on subjects other than Astronomy.

  774. you have the WorldWideWeb at your fingertips, richie–read everything you can and make up your own mind…

  775. And we all know how much rubbish finds it’s way onto the net. If you do search the web look for accredited sites. For every proper astronomical or university site there is there are at least ten full of the terrified rambling as posted by Amit, Rico, Espumpin etc. You can make up your own mind after you’ve looked at various sites.

  776. Science +religion does not equal answers you fool.
    Science plus investigation gives answers.
    Science +religion gives the bollocks you spout Rico.

    GDJ. You obviously have no idea what you’re talking about. The authors you cite are NOT merely giving us their impressions they are giving us the results of investigations, tests and experiments. Answers that totally devoid of personal bias. Where do you people come from?? Leave your computers alone and turn them off you are a drag on electricity and other vital resources.

  777. GDJ. At least I’m a professionally trained astronomer so my saying buy an astronomy book is valid you oaf.
    Some of the lunatics who post here appear to have no interest in science and certainly are not qualified to comment on serious scientific debates. I’m surprised the scientists here haven’t given them a proper verbal thumping. Still it’s very difficult to think down to the level of the alien interventionists and the drippy trippers who pester this thread.

  778. See what we’re up against here. Petulance from someone who hasn’t contributed anything of any worth at all.

  779. Skywatcher, Wow I can see you came up with such a good name for a “scientists”.
    Any real scientists wouldn’t even waste their time on a site like this, your only scared & worried like the rest of us.
    At least most of the “RANTINGS” deal with real life & not trying to put on another on some sort of pedestal.

    What kinda scientists bash others ideas?
    scientists are suppose to be team players here you have made ppl choose sides. Is N.A.S.A after the Catholic church?

    If you are the examples of “scientists ” then its no wonder the worlds about to break down.
    Here this is from Webesters : Historically, “natural philosophers” or “men of science”[3][4][5][6]; they were men of knowledge. Science and philosophy were roughly synonymous. William Whewell coined the term scientist in 1833 to describe an expert in the study of nature, but this term did not gain wide acceptance until the turn of the 20th century.[7][8] By the twentieth century, the modern notion of science as a special brand of information about the world, practiced by a distinct group and pursued through a unique method, was essentially in place.
    What you & everyone else here is an amature cryptozooloigist hoping 2012 is no bigger than Y2K.
    Get off your high horse if any one here is smarter than Raven prove it, Where do you work? She gave something to think about What have any of you written.
    NOTHING you just want to bash ppl on this site, because A) you have noone else to talk to…or B) you feel inferior cuz you can’t add to the subject. okay kids lets go back to class now. lolololo
    DonT FigHt ThE MadDnESs…..
    G.D.J
    It’ll only hurt if you do……………….

  780. For the scientists….the work and findings of Professor Igor Kopylov of the Moscow Energy Insitute, and maybe the IERS is worth a look too.

  781. GDJ.
    Ideas get bashed when they’re so obviously false. Raven smart?? Have you actually read what Raven said? The thing we’re really afraid of is that the bollocks spouted by Amit, Rico etc is that while it certainly won’t gain any wide-spread currency within the wide science community it has undue influence on the book-reading public. Luckily most won’t have any truck wit it but it has to be challenged at every opportunity. That is why some scientists, yes REAL scientists who do real scientific work, come here to do the challenging. We will pursue false claims wherever we hear of them. Make no mistake about that

  782. If an Astronomer / Cosmologist says that something sizable collided with Earth, its acceptable……but unacceptable from anyone else.

  783. Einstein’s Special Theory of Relativity was on the verge of discovery in 1905 and indeed should have been ‘discovered’ around 20 years earlier. Plank and de Sitter had it in their equations but because it flew in the face of Newton they didn’t follow through. Lorenz and Searle, I think also conjectured along similar lines. In 1905 Einstein wasn’t a famous scientist and worked as postal clerk.
    Knowledge and study do not reside in universities but I’d rather have a qualified person examine me than someone who “what is it”? and delve in.

  784. Dear GDJ,
    So that we would not be deprived of the experience of finding out for ourselves.
    Hello, Leah

  785. Dear Amit,
    I am absolutely not pissed off. Chill, our resolve is being tested, nothing more.
    Be well, Leah

  786. Dear GDJ,
    It takes team work, for sure……many heads being better than one.

    We have drawn you to our attention by our posts. Appologies…..time is short.
    Be well, Leah

  787. Dear Amit,
    I can’t possibly comment on what equiptment the Mayans had or didn’t have, as with the passing of time, decay removes much, and is not evident. The Mayans, as other civilisations, had knowlege, for certain….and understanding which very few have today.
    Leah

  788. Seriously Ladies,

    I don’t mind when you bash my ideas. What upsets me is that you guys take advantage of this forum to say things that you wouldn’t say to any of us in real life. I know for a fact that Gordo wouldn’t call me a fool to my face. But he takes advantage of this and he gets his kicks. I hope calling me a fool allowed him to have an orgasm.

    This is how you guys admittedly get your kicks. You call it by another name, you say its something like defending science whereever you encounter stupid theories or whatever but its the same hypocrytical bullshit.

    I really don’t know where you guys are from. Some from the UK I imagine and some Welsh, whatever. Where I live we’re allowed and encouraged to believe what we want.

    Different upbringing I guess. in America, most of us are of “poor breeding” so to speak. But we say what we want’ and we don’t believe that anyone has the right to call you name for it.

    Is that the way it is over there? You guys call each other stupid like that? You get smacked in the face here for calling someone stupid. You wouldn’t do it again I tell you that. Unless its a friend and you’re joking around.

    Diffrent cultures I guess.

    It’s a matter of respect. It’s hard to teach older people respect, they should’ve started them young.

    I could talk all I want in the street and not one of you would call me a fool to my face.

    Its cool though really. We all have something.

    I’ll just keep poking my head in every now and then just to watch and maybe post some shit.

    Its all good ladies. Its all good.

    -R-

  789. rico–these guys are so self-absorbed, self-centered, and self righteous, that they can’t even tell anymore when someone is just plain messing with them…if these guys are true scientists, then they are the poorest representatives/messengers of their fields that i have even had the misfortune of encountering…

    …but as you said–it’s all good!!!

  790. Hey Friends!!!

    Hope your weekend was Good…….

    Becky, I am so amazed at the greart vocabulary of insulting words that these people possess.. They have managed to piss off even you and Leah!
    I think they research such words “Scientifically”. Their degrees should read “Master of Insults” , “Doctorate in Arrogance”… with some additional certificates in Pompousness…
    This new bunch of Kevin, Owain, Skywatcher, Gordy etc.. I am gladly excluding Paul from this brady bunch because he atleast cares to answer some of the questions, and has desisted from using bad words for a long time…..

    Rico/Leah,

    I dont think there is any point in arguing with them.. They think that they are going in a one way lane, and the others are not entitled to travel in the opposite direction. They choose to ignore the valid questions so conveniently. And when we have to repeat the questions, they say that we are just repeating the same old story.. What the Hell !!! Its absolutely maddening…
    They are a disgrace to Science.. Science is all about Open Mindedness and Experimentation. Its not about being in your closets… They say that their qualifications and experience makes them experts on these matters.. WRONG!!! It gives them “Thick headedness” and makes them closed to new ideas….. Rico, you put it right by saying Religion+Science = Answers… But one of these jerks contradicted you… Kevin keeps saying we should devote our “talents” towards the support of “their” views.. Thanks but No Thanks! We are not bound by your narrow mindedness and we are open to research whatever we want… And no matter how much effort you put into “Clearing us out of this site”, we wont budge…. Becky has a fair idea about the place where these people come from.. And thats where they belong.

  791. As for “Breeding” , i know the context in which was used very well.. I just indicated that this word does not go down well anymore..

    About teh speed of rotation, Leah had a good point..
    It has bee proved and accpeted by NASA as well that the speed of Earth’s Rotation is slowing down constantly. Howeer, its not so considerable as to effect out daily lives.. There is hardly any difference between Now Minus 1000 Years or Now + 1000 Years.. But over a longer period of time it does make a difference, especially in Carbon Dating.. Because we co-relate that with our “Years” and “Days”, which are based on this rotation… As simple as that…

  792. I’m a scientists also, my feild of research is embryonic stem cell research.
    I have a P.H.D.
    does that give me the right to quench others ideas or beliefs.
    Nor should I have to flaunt my crenditals to gain your approval. If you are a Scholar, as you say, how can you justify name calling.
    I’m sure your professors’ would be ashamed to have called you a student.
    The relationship between belief and knowledge is subtle. As I was trying to explain before.
    Believers in a claim typically say that they know that claim. You believe in science others in God.
    For instance, those who believe that the Sun is a god will report that they know that the Sun is a god.
    Those who believe the Sun is a good source of Photovoltaic energy, will try to harness that energy.
    However, the terms belief and knowledge are used differently by philosophers but it doesn’t make one right or one wrong. Philosophy has traditionally defined knowledge as justified true belief.
    The relationship between belief and knowledge is that a belief is knowledge if the belief is true, and if the believer has a justification (reasonable and necessarily plausible assertions/evidence/guidance) for believing it is true.
    So my fellow “scientists” you better pray to the “Gods” you don’t believe that they are not real.
    Cuz it seems to me that many here have excepted the sun, the fact thats its not a god & that we can use solar panels.
    You still can’t broaden your mind past the fact that I said “that the Sun is a god”. & intill you get over the fact that we must agree to disagree Then I will pray for you.
    I would suggest reading Elsevier, the world’s leading publisher of science and health information.
    We get it free at my job, and when you google that, you’ll see my initials (i’m sure I spelled that wrong) as well as my colleague Raven.
    So becareful what you say about who is monitoring what.

  793. Science books do not equal wisdom. In other words, all forms of scientific text no matter how eloquently stated, cannot actually grant wisdom to the reader, merely through the act of reading. Words are only the representations of things, but not the things themselves. All of the most widely followed scienses texts from the Astro, the Bio, the mathematics, the sayings of Newton and the practices of Enistein, are but written attempts to convey various authors’ conceptions. Each attempts to convey the same essence, speaking of the underlying Truth through differing means. Each is a path, and all paths lead ultimately to God/Truth. Yet regardless of how well each system or person may or may not describe Truth, their essential value to the reader is only as great as ones’ personal investment in Spiritual/Scientific Facts. It is our personal experience, application and intention toward greater wisdom, that allows us to progress, regardless of what we have read. Therefore it is not the reading about Thermo dynamics nor even the most advanced Scientific studies, which provide insight into life.

    & one more time………………

    Bilble books do not equal wisdom. In other words, all forms of religious text no matter how eloquently stated, cannot actually grant wisdom to the reader, merely through the act of reading. Words are only the representations of things, but not the things themselves. All of the most widely followed religion texts from the Koran, the Kings James, the Mahabratha the sayings of Buddha and the practices of Jesus are but written attempts to convey various authors’ conceptions. Each attempts to convey the same essence, speaking of the underlying Truth through differing means. Each is a path, and all paths lead ultimately to God/Truth. Yet regardless of how well each system or person may or may not describe Truth, their essential value to the reader is only as great as ones’ personal investment in Spiritual Facts. It is our personal experience, application and intention toward greater wisdom, that allows us to progress, regardless of what we have read. Therefore it is not the reading about Muhammad nor even the most advanced theological studies, which provide insight into the Divine.

  794. OK, i will try to put simple questions one by one… And we will not proceed further until the issue on hand is discussed completely, to the satisaction of all involved.
    Ground Rule – No Name Calling…

    Question –
    Does anyone here object to the point that “Mayans had highly advanced astronomical knowledge, and that was without the possession of the sophisticated equipment that we have at our disposal these days” ???

  795. What really creeps me is how acurate they were. Even our modern computers are + or- afew points here or there, they were good $ from thousands of years back.

  796. Very Well Said GDJ….
    And you used Sun as a very Good Example. I would like to add to it though.
    Suppose you come across people who you do not expect to understand the functions of the Sun in a scientific manner, but you want to explain its benefits to them , how would you go about that??? God……… isn’t it??

  797. Yeah, but, its hard to explain. Once knowledge is upon you……its like trying to forget something you already know. Trying to explain to someone about something which cannot be explained. Even without trying to get into the phyics of the sun or the functions…personally I wouldn’t know where to start, but I get your point. & I thank you for understanding mine 🙂

  798. You know what freaks me out? How can a culutre like the mayans not have catapulates or telescopes. Yet they excelled at math & astronomy. Who taught the Mayans? & why were their teachings not pasted down?

  799. Yes GDJ, their accuracy is amazing.. Not only Earth and Moon, they had a fair idea about venus and some other planets as well!
    I am awaiting response from the “real” Scientists!!
    And the questions you put about Mayans, thats what Rico and myself are very keen upon getting answers! Perhaps, our “Scientist” friends have some idea,… And i can imagine why there teachings were not passed down. There must be many Skywatchers, Gordys, Owains and Kevins at that time to call them names and discard their theories… 😉

  800. LOL. 🙂 ;), That was funny. Funny how all of us are brought together here to discuss something none of us could figure out alone.
    Even if we could put aside or different views to come up with an answer, would that make us right? We wouldn’t know if the world was going bloohey today, 2012 or tomorrow.

  801. I agree, i’ve always ben the type that wanted to stick my nose out there. I got into my feild of research to “unlock the mysteries of life” & trust me you we still have no idea what gives the spark of life. Stem Cells are controversial because “they” believe we are playing god, when I can only humbly say, how eles can I help my fellow man? The experience of finding out for myself is what has always driven me.

  802. Dear Paul,
    Thanks. Now that you’ve explained that the length of a day is variable and therefore so is time, it should be acceptable to the other scientists. I’m aware of Keplers laws.

    Re carbon dating….changing temperatures, atmospherics etc etc all have an effect on rate of decay. With data incoming everyday from many fields of science, I imagine less assumed constants will be necessary, and the results produced will improve in accuracy.
    Be well, Leah

  803. Agreed that the Maya were exceptionally talented and detailed observers of the motions of the stars. However like the Sumerians, Egyptians their efforts were almost exclusively for astrological/religious purposes and in the pursuit of science.

  804. To GDJ.
    I personally think that stem cell research is an area of science that will bring HUGE benefits for mankind. I wish you and your colleagues all success.

  805. If a layman says something collided with the earth he should say how and why he came to that conclusion. When astromoners say something collided with the earth we do so from modelling, theories about the distribution of minerals, elements etc found in earth and moon rocks. We don’t say categorically that it happened 4 billion years ago just that the weight of evidence heavily suggests it..
    PhD in astronomy; worked at Siding Springs and, Rico, I’m an Australian you bludger and I would definitely call you a fool to your face if was lucky enough to meet you in the street.

  806. The Giant Impact Hypothesis, considered by science, is the same as the Summerian Creation Myth, amongst others. Science has borrowed the name Theia from an ancient Greek Creation Myth, as the name for the hypothetical planet, Tiamat in the Summerian Ta#lets.

  807. Do we accept scientific research, that says Solar Temperatures are gradually increasing, as is the luminosity of the Sun ?

    What effect has the increase in temperature had on the Sun’s gravity ?

  808. Dear Paul,
    I get your point….no problem. My point was that ancient hypothisis is called hogwash, but when modern day scientists contemplate same or similar, its acceptable.
    Be well, Leah

  809. Hey Owain. Bloody Kiwis eh? Nearly. Hope it’s not going to be another 55 years. Let’s hope we can better the Wallabies next week though the way they rolled over the English it doesn’t bode well.
    Getting a bit hectic here don’t you think? Looks like the scientific militant wing has ridden into town.

  810. Re Paul’s kind post of 6.44am.
    3 billion years ago a day was half as long as it is today. The 360 degrees of rotation having been covered in 12 hours wrather than 24 hours, each 15 degrees being half an hour.

    Dear Kevin,
    The acedemic route is not the only route. It is prefered in order to screen out or include ideas, according to preference.
    You are an Archeologist, and if you believe in the rules re freedom of speech and expression of ideas, that you want to impose on others, I fail to see your right to comment on 2012, or Geomagnetic Reversal….unless what your are proposing is that ONLY those with letters after their name are permitted the luxury of free speech and expression of ideas.
    No one is using a crow bar….you have total freedom to believe in whatever stacks up and makes sense to you…..but you do not have the right to impose your belief on others. I can assure you, I for one have no intention of imposing my beliefs on anyone….which is why I keep my beliefs to myself.

  811. Be back later to give a few responses.
    Rico. You say I should get a girl, well I don’t think my wife would aprove liberal though she is.
    As archaeologists we DO welcome amateur contrbutions but only on excavations. If they wish to contribute to the current body of knowledge we ask them to go via the academic route. Would you agree with that?? Surely that is only fair otherwise literally anyone can crowbar their own feelings, assumptions and theories into the argument.
    Back to work.

  812. amit–welcome back!!! …and thanks
    GDJ–thank you again, and God bless you for what you do…
    leah–…as always…

    sincere apologies to anyone i have offended..carry on…

  813. Leah.
    The speeds of the planets around the sun or indeed any star is governed and explained by Keplers Three Laws of Motion. It is one of the immutable Laws of science. Basically it means that the speed of revolution around the primary is dependent of distance. The further out the longer it takes. As every orbit is an ellipse the planet moves through a given distance or area at the same speed. E.g. at its far point it moves slowly and covers a small distance yet when close to the sun [perhelion] is covers EXACTLY the same amount of distance quicker. That is right off the top of my head but again if you Google Kepler you’ll get all the formulae as well.
    Rotation around the axes of a planet is different as it’s not fixed in perpetuity. The growth rings on ancient corals shell-fish all point to the earth having a far greater rate of rotation than it does now. Around 3 billion years ago the earth day was something like 12 hours. 1 billion years ago 18 hours or so. The cause is down to the drag the moon has as it raises both sea AND land tides that act as a brake. If we had a smaller moon the effects would be less.
    Should anything slam into the earth that’s big enough to stop it’s spin the earth would be destroyed. Life would cease and the planet quite like would break up. It would however reform into a globe and carry on around the sun.

  814. Amit.
    Science + religion = ZERO
    I can’t think of one scientist of whatever faith,[and there are many, many who are deeply religious] who tries to mix the two.
    One of the best British particle physicists, John Polkinghorne, is perfectly able to hold a deep religous position while being a theorist. In fact he is an ordained Anglican vicar.I believe he has said in interview that the universe came into existence and God afterwards. No conflict.

  815. Leah,
    Working late and caught this just as I was leaving.
    These two ideas are not the same. The giant impact that caused the formation of the Moon happened around 4 billion years ago. The earth was already formed and had a solid crust. No atmosphere as such and certainly no oceans. The Sumerians or any other people could not have know even with the science they had at their disposal. Even if you allow for alien contact and aliens telling the Sumerians all sorts of stuff the formation of the Moon is considered to be a fairly rare though not unique event. The satellites of other planets in the solar system formed in completely different ways. The orbits of practically all the others lie in the plane of the planets’ equators and are not inclined as much as Luna. This inclination points very, very strongly to a glancing impact. The other moons coalesced from the proto solar disc hence their orbits in the same plane.

  816. As chance would have it, Dr Hartman was on TV tonight, along with Dr Canup who developed a computer model for Dr Hartman, showing that Theia had a Glancing impact with Earth. The debris from both Earth and Theia then formed the Moon….Luna.
    Summerian Ta#lets may seem like myth, but the people of that time had the same hypothesis.
    The programme also addressed a year having a far greater number of days than 365, due to a greater rate of rotation, and a day having been as short as 6 hours.

  817. Gordy Says:
    November 24th, 2008 at 8:11 am
    Amit.
    Science + religion = ZERO
    I can’t think of one scientist of whatever faith,[and there are many, many who are deeply religious] who tries to mix the two.

    & you are a scientist? Allow me to introduce you to one of the greatest minds who did mix the two, & the reference I got it from.

    Collected Quotes from Albert Einstein
    “Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.”

    So now you can say you know one, ‘Kay.

  818. Paul Eaton-Jones, thank you sir. I’m proud to serve in my feild as you are in yours. May I ask for a reference from you on a good astro site?

  819. Einstein was an atheist or at least a non-believer in the Abrahamaic gods. When he said God does not play dice with the universe he wasn’t referring to a prime mover.

  820. Dear Amit,
    Dr Hartman’s theory encompasses the research of other scientists too……especially some at NASA. In modern times, as in Sumerian times, its still the most viable hypothysis.
    What happens down line, that makes humans so very much “the odd life form out ” on Earth, is something we are yet to cross reference with ancient hypothesis, or discover anew.
    Be good to yourself, as always,
    Leah

  821. Just because someone’s deluded theories make sense to them or their barmy followers doesn’t make it RIGHT!!!
    Only those with academic training or at the very least some learning or knowledge of the subject have the right to make pronouncements on matters of science, history, geology, archaeology, anthropology etc etc if they wish to be taken seriously. Making noises about alien intervention or the passing on of advanced knowledge or any of the other garbage uttered here is bound to be ridiculed if the claims cannot be backed up with identifiable, testable evidence .

  822. GDJ, I hope that with Obama as President of the USA stem cell research will be amplified in America.

    This damned Bush retard set us back about 20 years.

    Gordy, if you try to sell me the idea that the Sun, moon and stars are the cause for the origin of religion on earth then you are the fool.

    You need to look for the origin of religion and study the concept of god in that origin. If you do this with a scientific approach. You will find ancient astronauts. That is the meaning of Science + Religion = Answers. And believe me, in real life, you wouldn’t call me a fool to my face. I’m sure you’re not stupid.

    If you couldn’t analyze that simple statement what does that make you? Oh yeah!! A scientist!!

    Kevin, I don’t care if it’s your GF or first wife or second wife or even your sister. Ask them to satisfy you. I’m don’t post here for your satisfaction. If you don’t like what I post, bang your head on the wall. Or you can continue calling me names. It don’t matter. Whatever makes you feel good.

    We were seeded. It wasn’t a zillion year evolution. If it were man would be as the animals. He would live amongst nature and use it. Man destroys nature to better accomodate himself. We are not natural. We may have been once natural but not anymore. We were changed. This stuff is written long before Eienstein.

    Its fairly simple though. You guys choose to only acccept revealed wisdom.

    You can’t speculate. therefore you can’t actually have any theories. This must frustrate the hell out of you guys.

    Its cool man, here, take it out on me, I give you all my permission.

    I feel sorry for you guys.

    -R-

  823. “Just because someone’s deluded theories make sense to them or their barmy followers doesn’t make it RIGHT!!!”
    …NOR DOES IT MAKE THEM WRONG!!!!!!

    why not discredit the theory insted of those presenting it?????

  824. Dear Leah,

    You have certainly made very good connections between so called “Mythology” and “Scientific Beliefs”… Referring to Theia/Tiamat…
    But i’m sure its time for Dr. Hartman to have his credentials in doubt and a lot of mud slinging on him by the “Real” Scientists here!

  825. Hi Paul,

    If i read it right, you accepted the fact that the Mayans had highly adbanced astronomical knowledge. Be it for whatever reason.
    But one question here, how according to you, they were able to make these complicated observations/calculations without the sophisticated equipment that we possess today??
    Please answer this question for me…

    And Paul, Thanks…….. For being so patient and forthcoming.. This is really appreciated.

  826. Hey Becky!

    You gave a fitting response to Kevin…
    You dont have to prove that you right… Others have to prove you wrong…
    And like GDJ said – “i’ve always been the type that wanted to stick my nose out there”
    Guess we are all like that. There is nothing to prove us right or wrong. We just have this thirst for knowledge which finds its own wells through which to be quenched. And we are all are entitled to our own views/beliefs….

  827. Dear GDJ,

    I was about to post that quote by Einstein, but you did just that!!
    And i agree with paul about Stem Cell research, its the next big thing and will do wonders for mankind. Wish you all the very best in the work you are doing…
    BTW, if you want a Good Astro site, this one is as good as any. I keep checking the Home Page from time to time…. They come up with wonderful articles, and some of the pictures from outer space are just brilliant!

  828. Kevin,

    Please show some “identifiable and testable” evidence to support your views…

    But wait, your views here so far pertain only to painting Pen Pictures of other people around here…
    If you have any other views apart from these childish jibes of yours, you are most welcome to share them with us.. But please dont forget the “identifiable and testable” evidence…

  829. Dear Leah,

    Thanks for the info about Dr. Hartman.. Although i have come across his name many times, i dont know much about his work, But i’ll be sure to find out more..
    But since you used his name towards the support of our views, i’m sure these people will try to discredit his name…

    About GDJ’s post,
    Gordy said
    “Science + religion = ZERO
    I can’t think of one scientist of whatever faith,[and there are many, many who are deeply religious] who tries to mix the two.”

    In response to this, GDj posted a quotation by Einstein – “”Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.”

  830. Whats the hypothesis about how this became a water planet? Ice crystals from comets or something like that brought the water?

    I seriously don’t know but I thought that I heard something to that effect.

    If any of the scientist would be kind enough to enlighten me as to what science hypothesises caused all the water on this planet. Bear in mind that its a 75% water planet.

    -R-

  831. Isn’t it strange that Water did not originate on this planet, yet it covers 70% of the surface. And it even costitutes 70% of the Human Body!!
    Just a Thought…

  832. Doesn’t this lead one to speculate that since water is so vital for Human Life, it could be possibly a “carrier’ of Life as well.. Implanting Life on Earth from elsewhere in the Universe??
    I have a bit of information on the Hydration of Earth, The planetary picture that is emerging is that Earth was formed with very little water, or no water at all. The hydration of Earth came from comets and some hydrous asteroids. These sources are the Kuiper belt out past Neptune and the Oort cloud on the edges of our solar system.
    Water is thought to have been first delivered here over 4 billion years ago involving an intense bombardment of the inner solar system. One such attack is known as the lunar cataclysm, a period of celestial assault when the moon became most heavily pock-marked. The Earth received 13 – 500 times more ‘hits’ and having a greater critical mass was also able to hold much the water (ice); whereas the moon lost most of its frozen water to the emptiness of space. Tantalizing speculation is that some of these comets may have incubated in the Jovian sub-nebula in the space around the gas planets of Neptune, Saturn and Jupiter. Out there some of their chemistry altered to become enriched with the six noble gases (helium, neon, argon, krypton, xenon and radon) and form the different types of water that makes life on Earth possible, such as heavy water and regular light water we live with.

    I am just posting what i have read… Doesn’t mean i believe it though.

    Rico, I am just curious about why you raised thsi point……

  833. Leah
    The sun’s gravity will remain constant throughout it’s life. Even as
    its size increases through the red giant stage and through to the
    white dwarf end it will retain virtually the same mass. There is a
    very small mass loss during the red giant phase when the outer
    envelope puffs off but it is not significant. A star’s mass is
    virtually fixed from the moment it’s born. Again they lose some
    during what is called the T-Tauri stage just after it has ‘switched
    on’ and the very largest stars lose mass through the stellar winds
    phase.

    Temperature increase has no effect on gravity.
    The sun’s temperature is increasing, slightly, and was 30% cooler
    around 800 million years ago. At present the temperature is steady
    but will start to increase in around 500 million years time. By
    around 1000M-1200M years from now the sun will be orange in colour
    and beginning to swell. Life will be virtually untenable here. By
    1500M – 2000M years from now the sun will be a red giant and swollen
    to the extent that Mercury will start to become semi fluid. 5000M
    years from now Venus will be swallowed and it’s possible that the
    earth may be in the outer fringes of the the sun’s atmosphere.

    We accept this as a scientific truth because the physics, which is
    fairly simple, points that way and because we see stars at every
    point in their evolution in the sky. Their chemical make up can be
    determined by spectroscopic analysis.

  834. Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasinghe put forward the idea that the earth was seeded with life along with water during the cometary bombardment 4.5 billion years ago. It was contraversial at the time and still has huge hurdles to over come to be accepted. The main objection is that how any life/proto-life could have survived the impact, shock and extreme heat. There is no ojection anywhere within the astronomical community that complex organic molecules exist in outer space. There are even scientists who are refered to as astro-biologists or exo-biologists. A trifle premature in my view though.

  835. Paul,

    It sounds believable, but i have not read enough about it to form a certain opinion.

    There are doubts over this theory. If Hale-Bopp is a typical comet, and if comets indeed gave Earth its water supply billions of years ago, then the oceans should have roughly the same amount of deuterium as comets. In fact, the oceans have significantly less.

    While i say this, its also possible that not all comets have their composition like Hale-Bopp….. And NASA observations of the comet, designated C/1999 S4 LINEAR (LINEAR), also support the idea that comet impacts furnished a significant amount of the organic molecules used in life that later arose on Earth.

    Do you have anything to clarify my confusion??

  836. Paul,

    Just a curious question… Please do not think that i’m grilling you. A geniune question out of uriousity.

    You said – “There is no ojection anywhere within the astronomical community that complex organic molecules exist in outer space.”

    Whats the reason for this certainty?? As far as i know, there is no proof till date….

    And there is another question of mine which you did not answer…
    In continuation to my earlier question about the Mayans.. I will repeat for your sake.

    How according to you, they were able to make these complicated observations/calculations without the sophisticated equipment that we possess today??

  837. The complex molecules are detected using radio astronomy dishes. As the molecules rotate, absorb or emit light they give out signatures that are detected by tghese scopes. The readings are than compared with the the spectral signatures of the same molecules in the lab.
    As to the Maya I’m still reading that up. The simple answer is that as the night sky was so important to ancient societies much time and effort was put into tracing the paths of the five known planets and major stars [the seasonal rising and setting etc.]. With the planting of crops being so vital the movements were tracked over many years even before they made calculations. A certain number of passages had to be observed before they could be sure it was a recurring event. The mathematical calculations are basically geometry and trigonometry and arithmetic. There is no advanced, pure maths involved. It is more complicated than this of course an dI will answer once I’ve done more reading.

  838. The New Scientist from Sept ’07 carries an article when it says that Japanese scientists led by Genda get round the problem of the H2/D2 mismatch by saying the the earth was covered by a thick H2 atmosphere which interacted with the oxides in the crust and the ratios drifted upwards. However current analysis of the ratios point to aseroid/cometary bombardment.

  839. good morning, all—nothing relevant…just a small bit of interesting news…last thursday, a huge meteor was seen entering the canadian skies… the trail, then blast of light was visible for over 500 miles (as documented by video tapes of the event taken in different locations)
    canadian officials are looking for the impact site..no word yet as to the actual size of the meteor…

  840. The lunatic fringe continually call for scientific confirmation of theories and ideas yet when they are move the goal-posts and ask for more. Ask them for confirmation of alien science and intervention and all they give in return is the discredited yowlings of fringe authors and sites littered with dog-slobbering wowsers who just back up each others lazy, crazy thinking. Ya bunch of muppetts.
    Rico is looking for answers – that drongo couldn’t find a grand piano in one room house. He’s got a bad case of boing boing.

  841. The geomagnetic poles will shift as they always have done and will continue to do so. As the article stated they wander continuously and the evidence is in sediments.
    Becky. The barmy theories would die a natural death if it wasn’t for the barmy followers that perpetuated them. Scientific theories that cannot be substantiated or fail rigorous testing are cast aside. They don’t get ridden around just because they “look good” or fit in with some lunatic’s idea of how the world should be.

  842. Paul, when you say the maya studied the stars for many years. How many is many in your opinion?

    You go on to say that there was no pure math involved. I’m just asking because just looking at the calculations of the long count calendar there either had to be strong mathematical knowledge or thry had to be studying stars for over 1000 years no?

    I know you said it was more complicated than that and I’m glad to see that you’re researching these complex peoples.

    You may also want to update your reading on the sumerian and pre sumerian cultures. I’m not saying this to be a smart ass I’m just saying that you will see the similarities and when you look further and analyze it yourself you will find that these similarities aren’t an aberation but the norm all over the world.

    You have to look at their religious stories. This is a very important part of their culture.
    I still don’t agree that their sky studies had anything to do with crops. Todays farmers don’t study stars for growing crops in that fashion.

    We’ll see.

    -R-

  843. A long time need only be ten years. Once it was/is noticed that certain stars rise at the same time of year that is going to give the observers firm evidence it’s a real phenomenon. The wanderings of the planets would also have been noted as to where and when they rose or culminated [ crossing the southern meridian at local midnight]. After a significant number of years 100 or so the sightings and calculations
    would have become further refined. It would have been a long and laborious task.

  844. After a number of years dealing with the likes of Rico, Espumpin, Becky and JAT in discussion groups, lectures, round table groups etc I’m drawn to the conclussion that they find science too hard, scientific method too dull and difficult and scientific, analytical thought not exciting enough. If an quick fix solution comes along they grab it because it presents an easy counter to stuffy science, it provides a ‘romantic’ solution to a mundane problem [what could be more mundane than someone trying to build a megalithic structure as a meeting place just with rollers and baulks of wood? e.g. Stonehenge]. No, aliens helped! And of course it’s EASY. No need for critical analysis. Superbeings did it.
    If Rico etc were asked to perform a scientific style piece of research or analysis they’d sit there like a collection of stunned mullets. You couldn’t find your arses with map!!
    You make me want to hurl. You might have got Paul to tone down and start answering questions but some will keep shouting at you until you see sense – not my sense, not Owain’s, not Paul’s but the sense seen once the scales of stupidity have fallen from your eyes.

  845. Amit the reason I brought up the water issue is because in the Enuma Elish Tiamat is described as a water planet. According to the story earth comes from Tiamat being smashed in half. One half becomes the asteroid belt called the firmament in the Bible and refered to as the bracelet in the E.E..

    The other half becomes earth and the moon was called Kingu and was actually going to have its own orbit, it was supposedly bigger too.

    Science I believe hypothesises that comets containg ice struck this planet many times and that this is the cause for the water. I may be wrong but I think this is sciences’ view on the matter.

    -R-

  846. You might have got Paul to tone down and start answering questions( Which only happens to be what reasonable people do, so thank you Paul, I salute you on showing us, even if you didn’t have. My respect for you have grown even if you didn’t care for it or needed it. I just hope others can grow from your example) but some will keep shouting at you until you see sense – (let’s pause for a second, to reflect on the thoughts of someone outside the group) Mark Twain-
    Most people are bothered by those passages of Scripture they do not understand, but the passages that bother me are those I do understand.
    ( & we’re back)
    not my sense, not Owain’s, not Paul’s but the sense seen once the scales of stupidity have fallen from your eyes.
    Well Gordy once again you have expressed yourself as articulate as Espumpin. But at leadt he admits it just “ranting” that he’s doing. And as much as Paul may disagree with us, he has put us in our place more by “telling” not “yelling”, it made it easier for us to hear. See I just ranted on here as well, and we both just wasted our time writting nonsense & reading nonsense. Lets try to just make sense. ‘kay

  847. Los Alamos Observatory, Pretz, Sinnis, Walker, Huntemeyer and Dingus, published their findings 24th Nov re Cosmic Ray Hot Spots. 1 near Gemini and 1 above and to the right of Orion, near Taurus.

  848. Agree with you GDJ…

    Paul, i would just repeat what GDJ said about you.. My opinion about you has changed a lot. And i respect you now for the knowledge you posess.. Whether it makes any difference to you or not….

  849. Paul,

    Thanks for the clarity about the complex molecules in Outer Space.
    As for Maya, its not a matter of just simple geometry or trignometry..
    The Maya accurately calculated times when the sun would rise and set, and even more amazing, they determined the length of the solar year to be 365 days. A tropical year is actually 365.2422 days long, so they were very close in their calculations. There is evidence that the priest-astronomers continually updated their records and predictions so that the calendar remained accurate throughout the generations.

    The moon was another object of interest to the Mayans. It was represented by a female deity who had powerful influence on terrestrial events. A waxing moon had the attributes of the beautiful, ideal woman, while a waning moon was considered to be an old female deity who ruled over childbirth. Around 300 C.E., the Mayans began to keep track of synodic lunations, or the interval between successive full moons. A Mayan astronomer calculated that there were exactly 149 moons over a period of 4400 days, which works out to an average lunation of 29.53 days. In the city of Palenque, it was found that there are 405 moons in 11,960 days, which means that an average lunation is 29.53086 days. This is remarkable accuracy, given that the actual average lunation is 29.53059 days.

    Venus held a particular attraction for the Mayans. It was considered to be connected with the major deity Quetzalcoatl. It was called Xux Ek, the “Great Star,” and the Mayans knew that it is the same object that appears in both the morning and the evening at different times of the year. The priest-astronomers determined the synodic period of Venus (how long it takes to orbit the sun) to be 584 days, which is again incredibly close to the actual period of 583.92 days. When Venus rose in the mornings, it was considered bad luck, and everyone would stay inside their homes and block their chimneys so that the evil light from Venus could not enter. The Mayans also calculated the synodic periods of Mars as 780 days (actual = 779.936 days) and Mercury as 117 days (actual = 116 days), but they seemed uninterested in Jupiter and Saturn, the other bright planets. None of the planets were actually seen as objects different from the rest of the stars, which is unusual considering that they move significantly in relation to the fixed stars.

  850. Dear Rico,

    Thanks for the clarification….
    Thats what i suspected because I have also read about that. The scientists would be quick to discard that as rubbish. But when there is no strong evidence for the comet bombardment theory or any other theory, this theory should stand on equal ground with the others, till there is some proof that provides finality…

  851. good morning to you all..
    gordy–i will address you more time, and then i choose to let this go..

    you are absolutely right about me…math and science have ALWAYS been very difficult for me…mathmatic equations and scientific variations are way above my head…it’s basic math and kid science for me…so to a man of much higher degree, i can certainly understand why you would think me diluted–even deluded, in my simplicity…i even understand your distain for me…and that’s okay, too…all i ask is that you do not “sell me short”…there really is much to be found in simplicity…

    thank you, ever so much, once again, for your kind indulgence of me…

    best wishes to you all….have a wonderful thanksgiving!!!!!

  852. I was not casting aspertions on your ability to comprehend. I pointed out that for people who find the scientific approach to problems difficult, boring or not a quick fix then they reach for the easy answer should it be at hand. Rather than accept the mundane answer for a particular phenomenon because it doesn’t appeal or fit in with their particular world view they will go for the spectacular, literally the far out, one. If science can’t as yet explain how certain things happen then we’ll claim alien intervention, super-human ability of the ancient cultures because it circumvents the often slow process of scientific endeavour.
    I certainly don’t elevate myself above others here. I ‘m certain you have talents that would bewilder me should I stray into your field.

  853. Amit. Sorry mate but there is plenty of evidence for cometary and asteroidal bombardment of ther inner solar system. All evidence from the early phases has been obliterated on earth by weathering and tectonic movements and mountain building. The evidence exists on the moon and Mercury. Their pock-marked surfaces retain the impacts from the formation of the solar system. For anyone to maintain that the earth was missed by these comets/asteroids is wrong. This part of the solar system was a real shooting gallery.

  854. Dear Becky,

    I am around 1000 Kms away from Mumbai, in New Delhi.
    Nothing to worry about for now.. But these terrorists are getting more active, dont know how long i can feel secure here……

  855. Gordy,

    I know that the pock marks on moon are proof of Cometary Bombardment. But there is still no proof that it was the cause of Hydration of Earth.
    Scientists are only speculating upon various hypothesis’ to support this theory.
    Lets hope that someone stumbles upon something convincing soon.

  856. Dear Espumpin,

    Happy thanksgiving to you too. I know i have a lot to be thankful for, and i hope it stays like this.
    But i’m worried after tthe attacks yesterday.. These monsters have killed the Chief of ATS (Anti Terror Squad).
    It feels like we are sitting on a Time Bomb which could explode any moment..

  857. I’m just saying, why isn’t there water on any other nearby planet? So much water here and ice comets brought it? You realize of course that this is a theory adopted by science not a proven fact.

    If you think about it, it makes no sense at all. Before you continue on this path you should look up the numbers nessesary for this theory to work. Science has yet to offer a factual explanation for all the water. Its all theories. Even science offers various theories. No facts.

    We all choose which theories we believe.
    Some may call it garbage but I find that those people haven’t really looked at the entire picture and discard that which does not fit into their comfort zone of reavealed knowledge so to speak.

    Gordy for instance will allow any and all scientific theories as to how water happens to be on earth and no where else. Whatever 3 or 4 theories that science offers are valid to gordy. He chooses to believe theories wether they are right or wrong as long as the scientific community has accepted it.

    Look for thr origin of religion and god on earth and you see what you find. Thats all. Its easy. You research 3 weeks or so. Look for just that. Origins. If you don’t see technology described by the anacients then come back and tell me what you deciphered in studying their religious writings.

    All over the world, its the same stories or parrallel stories. It’s not a coincidence.

    I know it sounds corny as hell. Like a movie, like we’re all the nuts in the movie.

    But we feel like the guys screaming that he saw a monser and no ones listening. See?

    So we wait and find out wether the monster appears again in our lifetimes. Frankly, I hope not.

    I’m not a doomsayer. I’m not a scientist. I have a lot of questions. No one can answer my questions. I look for answers all the time.

    You guys really need to look further into the pyramid at Giza. That place is special. So are the places where these knuckleheaded Greeks put up temples in what was considered sacred ground by earlier cultures.
    Machu Pichu is a very special location on earth. Something to do with the earths magnetic field at that specific location. Look into it. How would and ancient savage people know enough to build these structures, and basically the same accomplishments as their eastern counterparts? Coincidence.

    These places require much further study.
    Its a possibility that aliens have been here and caused all the religious beliefs we have today. They were considered gods by the early humans and they wrote stories about this. From all the material I read, and not even taking into account mars, nibiru, abductions. I have never used anything of that sort in my argument. I stand by my belief in this possibilty and I can offer no scientific evidence but no one can offer scientific evidence that this isn’t the case.

    Like science say’s. We need more data.

    What would you guys say if a well known country like the USA made a public statement that the sosme of the UFO’s that people see are probably not of earth origin?

    Thats probabaly going to come soon. Watch for it.

    Looking forward,

    -R-

  858. Good Point Rico…. When this part of the solar system was a veritable shooting gallery, then it makes a pretty good question to ask why the other nearby planets do not have water…. Why only Earth??
    Something to do with the atmosphere maybe? But thats for the scientists to answer.
    And as you said, more data is required..

  859. The evidence for water on nearby planets is well established. Huge glaciers covered by sand/regolith have been discovered on Mars; evidence for large amounts of water flowing and in large bodies has also been seen on Mars. The reason there is no standing or flowing water there is very low atmospheric pressure, thin atmosphere and low temperatures. The water there is in the form of ice.
    Asteroids also have large amounts of water on and in them.
    The gas palnets don’t seem to have much in the way of water though. For the most part they are composed of the primordial elements and compunds of the solar nebulae i.e. hydrogen, helium, ammonia, methane.
    The case for Venus in more or less the opposite. The primordial water would have evaporated quickly as it’s so close to the sun and in gaseous form been split by ultra violet light into hydrogen and oxygen. The hydrogen escapes to space and the oxygen combines with carbon to produce a huge atmosphere of carbon dioxide. Vast amounts of CO2 were injected into the atmosphere by large volcanoes. It also combines with sulphur from the venusian volcanoes to form sulphuric acid.

  860. AMIT.
    As has been said previously I hope things are quiet where you live. My father loved India when he was there with the RAF during the war and always said I should visit. I happen to have a number of his photo graphs of Bombay [as it was then] and of his approach to the harbour on board ship. He spent most of his time in Burma and the east of India but travelled extensively when on leave. Even learned a couple of the languages too. Be safe.

  861. We Aussies might be rough and ready and shout louder than anyone else but we’re not insensitive to people when they find themselves in a potetially dangerous situation. Watch out for yourself Amit and hope you and your family are safe and well.
    We can resume our battles later.

  862. WHAT A WONDERFUL DAY IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD!!! my love and best wishes to you ALL on this day of giving thanks…

  863. Amit, I’m glad that you and your family are safe.

    Mullers theory re approx cycle of 62 million year asteroid bombardment , a real shooting gallery as said, and comets, which are known as water bringers even in ancient texts….there have been plenty events that delivered water to Earth.

  864. Amit, my man, I’m praying for you.

    Paul my question was what is sciences’ explanation for this planet being 2/3 water? Where did the water com from?

    Ice comets don’t seem plausible.

    -R-

  865. There is a wall in Israel that MANY people think to be holy we spend 500bill a year on that lame FAKE place.
    Tell what is the difference from 2012 doomdays then any other religion???????

    There is not one!!!! 90% of all humans belive ina fake god other humans made up

    All i see 2012 is a link to us and nature

    I read most of the dumb stuff people write on here its funny to read

    When we seen the Atom how can anyone here say a naked jew died for our sins that is really silly

    This here tells me that man kind is doom cus they FEAR anything they dont understand

    Keep believing in your naked jew Maybe he will return and save us for the horde of dumb people on this mother earth
    And most of all keep your day job keep thinking there is a god keep paying taxes and KEEP the capitalism spirit alive for the greedy jews

    have a nice fake day non thinkers

  866. T.K.
    Bloody brilliant mate. You think this thread is going cactus you should see the lunacy that’s happening on the Non-geomagnetic Reversal thread! End Timers, hippies spouting gobble-de-gook, alien interventionists, the whole slobbering crew has gathered there. Scientific explanations mean nothing to them. A right bunch of wowsers.

  867. Gordo, you forgot to add CT’s. Thats a favorite isn’t it? Conspiracy theorist.

    Yeah, a bunch of nuts. As we get closer to 2012 they’ll be coming outta the closet faster than a fag in california.

    Fun stuff.

    -R-

  868. I am quite overwhelmed by your concern about my well-being!
    I want to thank you all… Appreciate your kind words…

  869. This guys wordkiller is a nut but I understand his conspiracy theory. I bumped into so many. Hes actually referring to Zionist Jews.

    In his rant about a fake god hes probably referring to the Terah/Abraham conspiracy to create a monoeistic religion and attributing the sumerian legends to this one made up god.

    As far as capitalism theres nothing we can do about that. Taxes are like death we all gotta pay the piper.

    So he came here to vent.

    Really fun stuff.

    -R-

  870. Wordkiller,

    Agree with most of what you said…. People have gone way off in interpreting the true meaning of Religion…..
    Most people worship some fake god or the other, and you know whats worse? They even branch out these fake religions further!
    The way i see religion, it was only a means to get “ignorant” people to follow scientific concepts without having to explain the same to them…
    In my country , there are various practices that are followed by people “Religiously”, without knowing the true meaning of those. On the surface they appear as simple myths, but when you go deeper, you understand the Science behind the concept.
    I will quote several examples… It was an age old myth here that you should not sleep under a tree at night, because Ghosts dwell on trees at that time. Ofcourse now we know the science behind that.. This was a very basic example, but there are several others which are more complex.
    There is another one that i can re-collect from recent memory… A few days back my wife was clipping our 2 year Old’s nails. And my mom tld her not to throw the clippings outside as it brings bad luck. I just discarded it as a stupid superstition.. But due to my inquisitive nature i tried to get to the bottom of it and came to find out that if you throw the nail clippings in the open, the birds start pecking on them, thinking them to be Rice grains.. If they swallow too many, they can even die due to it !!
    My point behind is that there is a lot of Science behind most myths and superstitions… Its the interpretation thats wrong.. And we should not be too quick rto discard the Ancient texts.. They need to be taken seriously.. Its just that some of the concpets are still beyond our comprehension presently, but we may be able to fathom the deeper meaning they hold, sometime soon…..

  871. Theres like 5 scientific theories as to why theres so much water here and how it got here.

    These theories are accepted by the scientist here. But theyre just theories.

    There are so many things we can get into that science offers various possible explanations for.

    Science is good, but not perfect. You guys keep talking about carbon dating, I never mention that because its become my understanding that this dating method is crap for want of a better description. Science is working on better dating methods and has better ones already. Many things will have to be re-analyzed.

    I’m tired, ate too much turkey and played too much baskeball.

    Rest up peopleZz,

    -Ricochet-

  872. Rico,

    Unfortunately, i am only able to access the net from Office… And all the Personal Mail Sites, Networking Sites, and Chat Engines are Blocked…. At home, my wife and son hold exclusive and absolute rights over my time, so i am entirely at their disposal… 🙂
    Mails on official ID are screened, so its not feasible to use that for personal communication..
    But as i said earlier, i have your E-Mail ID, and that of others too, and i will make contact through the same soon…

  873. Rico,

    You are right about theories…
    Whenever the word “Theory” is used, the first thing that comes to my mind is Godel’s Incompleteness Theorem…
    Dont think i need to explain more. 😉

    At the moment, my interest is captured by the Grand Unification Epoch, takes me a while to get that into my head, as its difficult for a Layman to comprehend such heavy stuff.. But its interesting nonetheless…

  874. Ahhh, the Grand Unification epoch. Mind boggling. I think it’s fascinating that we can describe events fairly confidently to a time 10 to the minus 33 seconds after the Big Bang. Much before that and things start to get a little bit weird – quantum – foam space, symmetry breaking, Plank time, Plank space. Awesome.

  875. amit and paul–any “science made simple” versions of the grand unification epoch????

    i understand that the “plank era” has to do with instability, and i understand that symmetry breaking plays a major role in pattern formation…sorta making “order out of chaos”…where “a disorderly state” would be considered the “norm”…

    now enter X + Y bosons, and baryon numbers, and the mind turns to marshmallow…any help or insight would be greatly appreciated….

    thank you, well in advance, for your time and considerations…

  876. gordy–just a small personal insight—nothing relevant!!!!!!!!

    i seriously doubt that you or anyone elso would “flounder” in my area of expertise…i work in a photo “lab”, and make pictures for a living…i dare say you could feed a monkey bananas and train it to do what i do…BUT—i do it well….and since photography has always been a passion for me…it is a great job to have…technologically speaking, “we’ve come a long ways, baby”….my lab is 8 years old, and would be considered “outdated” in comparison to some of the newer ones that are out there…always something “new” for me to learn…

    like i said—certainly nothing relevant–just thought i’d share…

  877. Yes, Grand Unification is mind boggling…. But absolutely amazing if you try to picture the scene in your mind…
    Planck Epoch is the phase that followed the GU Epoch…
    Becky, even i am searching for a simple explanation of the same, but its hard to come by…You may start off at Wikipedia, it would help because it provides hyperlinks to related texts, so that you can clarify the terms you cannot understand..
    Perhaps, Paul might be able to guide us to some good links here…

  878. Turok and Hawking have a bet re gravitational waves, but I can see how both could be right. I’ll watch Horizon, see if Cox and others think that Time is as Turok believes, infinite….deems to me that time is eternal and an evenly distributed constant, that is travelled through at various rates.

    If and when our universe contracts, I don’t expect time to run backwards literally, its just that previous similar conditions in the universe will be evident.

  879. The Planck Era is the time before 10-43 seconds after the Big Bang. [time = 0 to 10-43 seconds]. At this time the four fundamental forces were united [gravity, strong, weak and electro-magnetism] and indistinguishable form on another.Theory says that this was an unstable state and through a process called ‘symmetry breaking’ firstly gravity broke away followed by the others so that by around 10-34 seconds the familiar forces were separate entities. It is conjectured that this symmetry breaking led to the period of rapid inflation which took the universe from the size of an atomic nucleus to the size of a beachball in the time space of time from 10-43 to 10-34 seconds after the Big Bang. Some theorists have said that this inflationary period could be seen as the Big Bang. Others have said that the traditional B/B could actually have occurred after inflationwhen the universe reached the beachball size.
    Other theorists like Neil Turok have theorised that time never actually began in the true sense of the word as the universe is infinite in space and time and the universe we inhabit ‘was born’ when two ‘Branes [membranes] collided head on and the energy released caused our universe that is part of a far bigger multiverse.
    I’ll dig out some books later and give a better explanation if I can.

  880. thanks, guys!!!!

    for any stargazers out there–venus and jupiter have been putting on quite a show !! tonight, i believe, there is supposed to be just 2 degrees of separation between the two of them , 20 degrees off the crescent moon…allegedly, this will not happen again for another 30 years or so…(this is from my southwestern US vantage point in arizona).

    happy stargazing!

  881. It will make a really attractive photo opportunity. I can guarantee that the weather in SW America will be better than NW Europe for the next few nights.

  882. As it happens there is a Horizon programme tomorrow night, Tuesday, on BBC 2 at 21:00 about Time, what is it?, does it really exist? etc. etc. I don’t know if the people outside of the U.K. can watch it on the BBc’s iPlayer facility but you can try. The site is http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer. If you can’t catch it ‘live’ it’s usually available for seven days thereafter. Whether the Palnck Era is covered I don’t know but ‘Branes are going to be mentioned.

  883. ok. i have a SLIGHT obsession with this 2012 ordeal and i find it funny that everyone thinks it is the end of the world. this article thrilled me. i loved it! im so happy to read the view of an intelligent person! thanks so much. i enjoyed it.

  884. Hi Guys!!

    The concept of time has always been very intriguing…
    Turok has this membrane theory.. But if you go back further and ask – “How were the membranes formed?” . Is there any answer? Well, i think the question only leads us to believe that time is infinite… Because if time was finite,then there has to be some sort of “Start”, the “First” trigger that caused something to happen…
    If the Universe was formed by Big Bang, and Big Bang was the result of interaction of “Energies”, what about the Energies then? Where did they come from? There has to be source!
    I can only assume that the Universe is Infinite and there is no such thing as “Time” … Its only a means created by us to keep track of our activities, and we keep fragmenting “Time” into smaller portions.. From Day and Night, we got to Hours and Minutes, and now Nano Seconds….
    The more you think about it, the more you get confused…..

  885. About Venus/Jupiter, if it makes an excellent photo opportunity then i’m sure that we will get the best pictures at Universe Today.. I will keep an eye on the Home Page…

  886. We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can’t scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me.

  887. amit–still here!!!! but it got awfully quiet, didn’t it????

    i thought i had said something horribly wrong again!!! got a couple good shots of venus and jupiter the other night…that really was pretty cool…next cosmic event for me will be the geminid meteor showers on or around the 13th of december this year….ya have to head a little bit out of phoenix and away from the light polution of the city to see them really well…saw the leonids last month…always something to watch or see in the skies…

    decided i’d wait “and watch” for something on either the history channel or NATGEO for more on the G.U.epoch…reading about it is way above my comprehension level..did not see that special on “time” that paul was talking about–it did not air in my area–or at least on any of the channels we have access to…but will keep my eyes open for it… i’m rather curious…thanks for the heads-up, paul…

    been keeping a close eye on the news, and hope for your continued safety, amit…it’s getting more and more unstable in your area… gotta be scary!!!! sending lots of “good mojo” your way…

    please take care, OKAY???–best wishes to you all

  888. just an observation about the meteor showers…seems that every year they are appearing earlier…last year, they were on the 15th, 16th and 17th of december…best night for viewing was on the 16th…i can remember about 10 years ago watching them on christmas eve…

  889. All I know is that I was completely freaking out about these 2012 doomsday scenerios and this article instantly lowered my blood pressure. I was literally losing sleep not to mention ordering survival supplies and stockpiles of ammo. Hell, I even googled real estate in the Appalachain Mountains. I reside in Florida and was feeling pretty certain we were gonna be up manure street without a fricken paddle. Unfortunately I still have my insecurities with regards to the planetary alignments and pole shifts. I learned about this back in Astronomy class in College – about 22 years ago. I suppose I am feeling more affected these days because I am a father, and it would really SUCK if our world was wasted in a mere 4 years. Crap, maybe I need to up the meds or a bible or a psych exam or a joint or a new science lesson or a …….. SoMeThiNg 2 StOp ThE mAdDneSs….

    AWA

  890. Good day. Spent over 3 hours yesterday listening to Cox, Hawking, Kaku, Guth, Turok and plenty others re Time, Time travel and the Big Bang.
    It was definately an Astronomy / Space day on TV yesterday. The other 2 programs were, Beyond the Big Bang, and Time travel, The truth.

  891. When gold hit $700 per oz, it brought the price to a negative 7% compared to a year ago. This would roughly mirror the huge correction “within” the bull market we saw from 1970 to 1980. The same Bull Run that took gold from $34.50oz. In January 1970, to $850oz. by January 1980, that’s roughly a 2,450% increase!

    The question still lies… Why has gold dropped?

    I challenge you to see things for what they really are, in terms of U.S. dollars; Gold has indeed dropped from its March highs of $1,000 per oz.

    That’s only because gold is traded in U.S. dollars and the U.S. dollar has rose so much against other currencies. In fact, if you are in Australia, New Zealand, Europe, or most other countries, gold is actually at an all time high!

    Let’s take a closer look at the reasons the U.S. dollar has surged higher.

    To say the U.S. dollar rally is real or sustainable is like saying everything we know about economics is wrong! How can the U.S. dollar get stronger as the U.S. economy deteriorates?

    The obvious answer is that it can’t!

    The U.S. dollar is being devalued at an alarming rate. Faster than what took place in Argentina, Mexico, and Russia put together. The only difference is that our government has better ways to hide it.

    Just think about the recent bailouts, how much has our government thrown down the endless “bail out hole”…

    Let’s add it up!

    $800 billion to support mortgage consumer debt
    $100 billion for Fannie Mae
    $100 billion for Freddie Mac
    $150 billion for Stimulus package (from January)
    $8 billion for Indymac
    $29 billion for Bear Stearns
    $ 700 billion for Wall Street ( Bank of America; Merrill Lynch, City Group, JP Morgan, Washington Mutual, Wells Fargo; Wachovia, Morgan Stanley, Goldman Sachs…)
    $143.8 Billion for AIG ( which keeps growing)
    $25 Billion for the big three in Detroit
    $138 billion for Lehman Brothers (post bankruptcy) through JP Morgan
    $50 Billion for money market funds
    $ 620 billion for general currency swaps from the feds
    Totaling : $2,863,800,000,000

    This doesn’t include the hundreds of billions the feds have and will continue to buy in commercial paper. Plus, what they lend out to other financial firms.

    Not to mention, the feds recent supply of new credit lines to Brazil, Mexico, South Korea, and Singapore to “help those countries deal with the global credit crisis.” The feds will start at $30 billion and have promised up to $100 billion dollars per country.

    Can someone say HYPER-INFLATION !

    If you can’t see where the U.S. dollar and gold are headed, I’ll be crystal clear! The dollar is going in the exact same direction as the Zimbabwe dollar and Mexican peso. Between the last devaluations of the peso, it’s lost 99.9%. If you want to know the price of gold in old pesos; you just have to multiply gold by 100,000.

    With everything that has taken place, many “main-stream” TV commentators believe or want us to believe, that the U.S. dollar is now the currency of choice; a safe haven or flight to quality.

    Nothing can be further from the truth.

    The fact is that the U.S. dollar is now seen as a liability, not an asset. More and more countries are walking away from it.

    The reason the U.S. dollar has gone higher is due to the $598 trillion dollar derivatives market. You see, hedge funds have over leveraged themselves and have been hit with tremendous margin calls as markets move against them. They have been forced to liquidate their investments overseas, which is why overseas markets are now crashing. They’re liquidating to come up with equity to pay off margin accounts, which need to be paid off in U.S. dollars.

    The dollar is NOT rising because it’s a “safe haven” or a flight to quality; but rather to satisfy U.S. margin accounts. Remember until further notice, margin accounts in most emerging world markets can also be satisfied in U.S. dollars hence, the surge in demand for the U.S. dollar over the past few weeks.

    Now let’s talk about deflation. It’s true deflation is here! Deflation is a normal stage in any depressionary economic cycle. Prices of goods and services are going down, they have to. We have an over inventory of cars, electronics, homes, etc… The universal law of supply and demand kicks in. Sellers of goods and services are forced to devalue their prices in order to attract buyers. Regardless of lower prices, people just aren’t buying.

    Have no fear, deflation won’t be here long. The un-federal reserve assures us of that, every time they create money out of thin air.

    Hyper inflation is just around the corner!

    Anyone with a head on their shoulders knows that current consumer price index (CPI) is phony! Real inflation is much higher then government reported numbers.

    Whether you believe hyper inflation is coming or not, you better prepare for it.

    It happened to the Argentina, Russia, Germany, and recently to Zimbabwe.

    It’s true; our government is just as irresponsible in their creation of money.

    Another key issue that’s looming on the horizon is the five dollar floor for mutual funds. By law, mutual funds have to sell out of stocks that are trading under $5 per share. With the recent drop in the Dow, a lot of stocks are getting dangerously close to that mark, and when they get there, all mutual funds holding that stock, will have to sell it, creating a snow ball effect. Plus don’t forget we are walking into the worst retail Christmas season, ever forecasted. When the depressing numbers hit Wall Street, get ready to see the DOW take another dive!

    Now let’s talk about the nasty rumor of market manipulation

    and price fixing in the gold and silver markets.

    The commodity futures trading commission (CFTC) puts out the “Commitments of Traders” (COT) reports. In where the public can clearly see the net long or short positions held by non-commercial and commercial institutions in all exchange trade commodity markets. Well, without dragging this out.. It’s true! Up until the first week of November, two well known bullion banks held %76 of all the short positions in the silver pits and the same two Institutions also held 60% of all the short positions in the gold pits at the New York Mercantile Exchange and the COMEX division.

    The question is, “can this go on forever”? The answer is NO!

    In fact, the CFTC is now in an active investigation of both the gold and silver pits.

    Plus! At or before the expiration of the specified futures contract (gold/silver) all short positions must be satisfied by either the sale of the commodity (gold and silver) or the buying back of the short position. Well, we know they can’t sell metals they don’t have, therefore the only other option is to buy the short positions back, with a sizable profit I’m sure. Nevertheless, they will be bought back. Which will add a frenzy of buying, ultimately sparking the next Bull Run in that market.

    Ladies and gentlemen, the time has never been better to own tangible gold and silver. We all know what gold and silver are capable of when the buying frenzy starts. You don’t need to be a doomsdayer to know that the worst is yet to come.

    The largest load of bank loans re-adjusting the first quarter of 2009 and not stopping until 2012
    Bank failures
    Foreclosures
    Rising unemployment
    Inflation
    Crashing U.S. dollar
    The introduction of the North American Union and the Amero
    These are all the reasons why more and more people are gravitating to tangible metals.

    Please feel free to comment on my blog at:
    http://restoretherepublic.net/blog_entry.php?user=AlexP&blogentry_id=1595 and visit my profile and websites below.

    In Freedom,

  892. The Fed Is Evil: You sir have completely lost your way somewhere. This is NOT a financial services site, not a site for banging on about the dire financial state of various countries and currencies. It’s place for the discussion of things astronomical. Go away and bother an accountant, ya drongo.

  893. Dear Amit,
    I’m going back to the other original comments page, so I can ask you about something….but this is a place for ASTRONOMICAL discussion only. I’ll post there tomorrow.
    Be well Leah

  894. Different dynamics. The sun basically acts as a fluid while the earth acts as a solid.
    [The study of the sun’s magnetic field, its production etc is called magneto-hydro dynamics.] The sun’s layers rotate at different speeds as do the gases at different latitudes which causes all kinds of tensions and stresses within the sun’s magnetic field. With the earth the tensions are less though the interior appears to rotate at a slightly different rate than the mantle and crust.

  895. a few years ago i lived in a small town in missouri and an unusual thing happened. we had a swarm of cicadas.different types of cicadas have different incubation periods before leaving their holes in the ground. im not sure what the timetables are but the math bore itself out that they all came out at the same time.it was CRAZY. you couldn’t hear anything except that chirruping they do. my point is that is it not possible that an astronomical “cicada swarm” could happen?the combination or domino effect of galactic equinox, Y-class brown dwarf(which are virtually undetectable because of their lack of most forms of radiation in quantity)racing through our solar system,geomagnetic reversal,causing the earths super volcanic calderas to erupt relatively all at once. i watched a “nova” episode that said;as far as super volcano eruption time lines go the Yosemite caldera is overdue. and by the way what is the object only visible in IRAS at 9h 47m 59s,13 16′ 27″? Y-class brown dwarf?quasar? i couldn’t find any info on those coordinates on google. and there was only an image on google sky.oh and a lot of conjecture on youtube. thanks

  896. The IRAS data is quite old and ‘viewed’ with technology that dates from the late 1970’s[IRAS was launched in 1983]. A lot of the faint, weird looking images in reality turned out to be faint, very distant infra-red galaxies in their infancy; low mass stars; ultra cool red dwarves; some things that later turned out to be brown dwarves[and not hurtling towards or through the solar system]; warm dust both within and outside the solar system. Don’t worry yourself into a panic or an early grave.
    The Yosemite super volcano is by some estimates not ready to blow for another 10,000 years or so. It does show a sort of regularity but it is NOT a clockwork device but is subject to the stresses and strains of the movement of magma at great depth. The times appear regular when viewed over tens of millions of years. When it goes it goes and no currently planned evacuation of the continental United States will make a ha’porth [a cent’s worth]of difference to the devastation or loss of life. Even with a months notice, and that’s unlikely, no more than a few hundreds of thousands of people will be moved.

  897. The 2012 movie has a really cool slogan in the previews.
    It says –

    How would the world’s leaders prepare six billion people for the end of the world?

    They wouldn’t…

    -R-

  898. You know, it’s been speculated that the South Pole Telescope was built in antartica for the specific purpose of looking at the southern skies in the direction that IRAS was looking when it ran out of fuel.

    They speculate that it was tracking an object.

    -R-

  899. hi, rico–read that “speculation” as well…perhaps nibiru or “planet X”…no one is saying for sure…any info coming from the SPT facility was immediately squelched…though rumor has it that they are watching the approach of something in the southern hemisphere…and it has a moon…still wondering what would necessitate the need for such an expensive telescope in such a remote area??????
    never did get a response from our astronomers…..

  900. could it be that a) the SPT is not relative to their area of expertise, b) they are not at liberty to say, or c) they don’t know what the SPT is?????????

  901. hi, guys–had another thought—read through the 2012-no planet X thread this morning…i apologize for not remembering the person’s name who posted this thought…but was wondering if our astromoners could explain the “sky patch” located at these coordinates…it appears in the google/sky link

    right ascension = 5h, 53m, 42.0s
    declination = -6 degrees 0′ 43.9″

    why the patch, guys??? what’s behind it????

  902. As has been noted elsewhere the SPT has discovered a number of clusters of very distant galaxies. As for something approaching the earth from the south galactic pole or wherever “and it has a moon”, that is scare-mongering bullshit. But what else can you expect. Once again it’s a case of the lunatic fringe not knowing so they make up some fantasy story that smacks of a conspiracy. Very childish.

  903. There should be concern re contributions of science to the creation of weapons and modes of destruction. Without science the weapons capable of great and mass destruction would not exist. Biggest concern is mans creations and intentions re usage.

  904. Oh man, they’re at it again aren’t they?? If there’s no crisis, no panic, no problem let’s create one.

  905. Without science you wouldn’t have the technology to spread panic and misrepresentations of science and its discoveries; you wouldn’t have the means of curing illness; comfortable travel; well constructed and heated accommodation etc. etc. ad infinitum.
    Yes science has given us the threat of nuclear annihilation, biological poisoning etc but most of us would much prefer to live in the present with ALL the problems than not.

  906. paul–i watched a show saturday on universe today that explained how the earth’s core spins and creates our electromagnetic waves…i understand completely now…

    leah–good to hear from you–regarding usage AND REUSAGE—-pretty scary indeed—the rejuvination of anthrax, smallpox, and the plague comes to mind for me…and why reusing them would even be a CONSIDERED, is above and beyond me…apparently it wasn’t devastating enough the first time around…

    gordy–i, too,am very grateful for the times in which we live…in spite of–or even because of all the problems…but why create, or recreate more????? ya don’t “poke the bear” when it sleeps…sometimes it is best to just let it sleep…and in the case of smallpox and anthrax–what would be the harm in letting it sleep?????

    putting just that aspect completely aside, i sometimes squirm when i hear or read phrases like
    ‘Oh, we have the technology, but we would NEVER use it for THAT!”…can’t help but think that somehow that just isn’t true….the want for power and curiosity are two very strong driving forces…we tend to want to see what it will do, or see what will happen, and cover up the consequences later….or ever worse, know, and do nothing about it….

    nature has a pattern–human nature does not….

    i apologize well in advance for these “non-scientific” ramblings…thank you for your kind indulgence…

  907. I think you should direct some of those comments to politicians not scientists. Of course we as scientists must take some of the blame for some of the ‘discoveries’ that are put to evil usage but very, very few scientists actually decide to use them. Anthrax and smallpox were around long before science.

  908. Dear Amit,
    Thanks for your answer. Jealousy is the motivation it seems. Its good to know you are well. Espumpin is ominously missing….maybe abroad…not home.
    Be well, Leah

    Dear Gordy,
    No insult meant to any……nor was it my intent to apportion blame….I see none. It is the construct of the system that furnishes opportunity to use discoveries for destructive purposes. I wish for further constructive exchange, not destructive argument for argument’s sake.
    Be well, Leah

  909. point well taken, gordy…in the overall scheme of things, it is most unfortunate that science, too, sometimes suffers from the affects of bad politics..

  910. Hey Becky!
    I am doing alright.. No worries for now….

    Espumpin has been missing since long. Wonder whats up with him?

    Leah, i have seen your question on the other thread and answered it…

    Rico,
    There has never been a convincing answer about SPT from the Scientists.. Becky gave the coordinates for the “patch” as well.. Whats the harm in asking questions if we are curious about something?? But ook at the answer she got from Gordy and Co. Same old ranting about Lunatc Fringe and all… C’mon guys, answer the question straight.. Give us something worrthwhile or say “I dont know” if you dont have the answers!

  911. Leah,

    I have lots and lots to say regarding that matter.. But as you said, this is not the right avenue to do so…
    Moreover, you will get only one side of the story from me, which you may feel to be biased towards my own country.
    You would ofcourse like to get some views from the other side as well…..
    The whole situation is sad you know.. When so much can be achieved through mutual copoeration, whats the need for all this? And you know whats worse, to think that Pakistan has its origin in India.. We have the same ancestors.. But then again, this can be said about the whole world… If only all the people could realise this, we wont need any God Damned Politicians to lead (mislead) us..

  912. Dear Amit,
    Thank you again. I’m the odd one out as I have a bias for Earth, and all life here, and not just for one country or area. Your bias seems to be leaning in the same direction.

    In general, not repeat myself at length….Prophecy when regarded from the perspective of Propaganda, is a useful tool to concentrate the minds of people on dates and events that instill dread and fear.
    Change is a constant, whether prophecised or not. Its fine to accept it as “One” possibility, but it is not the only one. If the prophecy does not appeal, it should not be given so much power and attention…..instead this energy could be used to effect a more desirable future. Prophecy can be advice, suggestion, or used as a blueprint to instill confusion, and fear.

  913. amit–so glad you are safe and doing okay…perhaps this isn’t the “proper venue” in which to discuss this, but please know that (speaking solely for myself) we all “hold bias” toward our own countries…and who better to speak for it than the people who live there???

    …just please continue to take care and be safe!!! we’ll talk more “around the campfire”…

    …continued best wishes

  914. I’ve looked at the coordinates RA 5h 53′ 42″ dec -6* 0′ 43.9″ and don’t see a ‘patch’. Looks normal to me. Might I suggest people check the data bases of the southern hemisphere observatories in Chile, South Africa and Australia. These southern telescopes should have no difficulty in seeing the south galactic pole. The SPT is placed there so as to be free from radio interference as well as light pollution. There’s nothing sinister in it’s position. For many years astronomers have been agitating for a series of ‘scopes to be built there. The ultimate place for radio ‘scopes is of course the Far Side of the moon.

  915. Besides the Toraor.net site is there anywhere on the net that mentions the missing part of the southern sky? I’ve read through the “proof” offered by the aforementioned site but it is I’m afraid to say riddled with inaccuracies, is a mish-mash of pseudo-science, real science, mythology and dribbling, nonesensical rubbish. If that’s the only ‘evidence’ then there’s nothing to fear.

  916. Dear Leah,

    You are quite right about my bias….. It “leans” more towards Earth as “One World” ..
    Sometimes i wonder what will happen if all the borders are dissolved? No boundaries, no individual governments.. One global Govt , one currency and one religion – Humanity.

  917. As mentioned by Rico, the movie – 2012 has a very good tag line..
    And its very true…. “Preparing” the people for such a catastrophe would be like setting off a bomb… Humanity will be wiped out before the actual cataclysm takes place…
    No Brick-bats for this please!! I am just considering this as a hypothetical situation….

  918. Hi Paul,

    Thanks for your clarification about the patch….
    But i am curious to know what exactly the SPT is doing ?
    Has it come across something important (In General) yet? Where can we view some images from SPT?
    And one more thing.. Is there a lot of difference between North Pole and South Pole in terms of Radio Interference and Light Pollution?

  919. The SPT is a very new facility and only saw first light within the past year or so. Therefore not a great deal of work has been done. It’s mainly fine tuning and beddingf in. So far the SPT has imaged a number of clusters of galaxies in the infra -red meaning they are very distant as well as very dusty. That means they are very young.
    As far as radio and light pollution at the poles there is significantly less of both at the south pole. The Arctic is relatively much closer to human activity and is surrounded by Russia, USA, Scandinavia, human habitation in Greenland and a lot of radio traffic goes ‘over ‘ the pole. Light pollution is less of a problem depending on where you placed the telescopes in the north. As far as I’m aware the north pole has seen more activity based on defence than on astronomical research.

  920. Paul and others. I followed a few links regarding the SPT and Niburu. This ‘patch’ that is supposedly covering an oncoming object or Niburu has I’m afraid all the hallmarks of a hoax or, as has been said, mere scare-mongering. These Niburu believers cannot get their story or facts correct. Get this. One of them claims that the Planet X/Niburu is near the constellation of Leo and consequently ‘near’ to our equator when projected onto the sky [known as the ecliptic]. There is NO way that anything in that position could see seen and photographed by the SPT or any telescope near that latitude.
    I’m sure that the astronomers and other scientists here are waiting anticipation for what other ‘explanation’ the conspiracy theorists can come up with. I know I am.
    Over to the lunatics.

  921. President George W. Bush said his belief that God created the world is not incompatible with scientific proof of evolution.
    In an interview with ABC’s “Nightline” on Monday, the president also said he probably is not a literalist when reading the Bible although an individual can learn a great deal from it, including the New Testament teaching that God sent his only son Asked about creation and evolution, Bush said: “I think you can have both. I think evolution can — you’re getting me way out of my lane here. I’m just a simple president. But it’s, I think that God created the earth, created the world; I think the creation of the world is so mysterious it requires something as large as an almighty and I don’t think it’s incompatible with the scientific proof that there is evolution.”
    He added, “I happen to believe that evolution doesn’t fully explain the mystery of life.”
    Interviewer Cynthia McFadden asked Bush if the Bible was literally true.
    You know. Probably not. … No, I’m not a literalist, but I think you can learn a lot from it, but I do think that the New Testament for example is … has got … You know, the important lesson is ‘God sent a son,'” Bush said.
    “It is hard for me to justify or prove the mystery of the Almighty in my life,” he said. “All I can just tell you is that I got back into religion and I quit drinking shortly thereafter and I asked for help. … I was a one-step program guy.”
    The president also said that he prays to the same God as those with different religious beliefs.
    “I do believe there is an almighty that is broad and big enough and loving enough that can encompass a lot of people,” Bush said.
    When asked whether he thought he would have become president had it not been for his faith, Bush said: “I don’t know; it’s hard to tell. I do know that I would have been — I’m pretty confident I would have been a pretty selfish person.”
    Bush said he is often asked whether he thinks he was chosen by God to be president.
    “I just, I can’t go there,” he said. “I’m not that confident in knowing, you know, the Almighty, to be able to say, Yeah, God wanted me of all the other people.”
    He also said the decision to go to war in Iraq was not connected to his religious beliefs.
    “I did it based upon the need to protect the American people from harm,” Bush said.
    “You can’t look at the decision to go into Iraq apart from, you know, what happened on Sept. 11. It was not a religious decision,” he said. “I don’t view this as a war of religion. I view this as a war of good, decent people of all faiths against people who murder innocent people to achieve a political objective.”
    He said he felt like God was with him as he made big decisions, but that the decisions were his.
    “George W. Bush has to make these decisions.”

  922. gordy, so sorry to disappoint—but nothing more from this lunatic at this time…

    leah and amit–please do not misunderstand—i, too, share a huge concern for all mankind, but for me, it must start small…love, honor, respect, and charity begin at home…the butterfly effect…

  923. Mankind is in quite a healthy state with plenty of love, honour, respect etc going around if you would only see it. It happens in the day to day actions of people everywhere, any time. People ARE basically altruistic and kind to one another. The idea that mankind is in some sort of cultural meltdown and mental crisis comes from the skewed vision people have of the world when they see the iniquities in Zimbabwe, Palestine, South Africa, Brazil etc broadcast on the news every day. There will never be a world government thank goodness [who needs monolithic state control? Ask the Russians and Chinese], world religion or anything similar. What has made humanity successful is it’s diversity [and opposable thumbs]. Long may it continue.

  924. Dear Owain,

    Your observations are as mine. Altruism is so prevelent….therefore commonplace, it naturally does not hit the headlines….which seek to report sensationalism, and on matters of a negative nature.
    Having spent time under communist rule, I don’t see global monolithic governing as being possible…..not needed so not wanted. Certain global functions could do with co-operation and management, but no more than that. E. g. Matters re Climate and Polution, as they effect all life equally on Earth, and Earth itself.
    I thank you for the positive input.
    Be well, Leah

  925. owain–you are absolutely right–there is plenty of goodness “going around”, but , sadly ,it is not enough “to go around”…those “iniquities” are very real to those who live it every day…we are privy to the very best that mankind has to offer,but we are also witness to the absolute worst… i am very fortunate and blessed that it has not knocked on my front door…i cannot imagine what it would be like to LIVE IN FEAR, or in peril….if i had one wish for all mankind..that would be it…no suffering, fear or peril…

  926. Dear Becky,

    Dont worry, your point was well taken….
    It all starts from the self…..

    Owain is also right to a great extent..
    I know that my dream of a Single World Govt. is far fetched…..
    There may be a lot of good going around. But the overall state of world is dismal!
    I may be leading a happy life. But at the end of the day, it hurts to see so many people suffer out there.. People without food and shelter, people being killed in wars and terrorist attacks…

  927. If one concentrates TOO much on the misfortune of others then one’s own life becomes very much diminished. Of course we must be concerned about those who live in poverty, under oppression and on the margins of society. But mere hand-wringing will do nothing to allieviate their suffering. That is a luxury indulged in by the monied, comfortable, chattering classes. Urging our respective governments into action is virtually the only way to solve the problems. Unfortunately in Britain successive governments rely in many case on charitable donations to help the under-priveliged rather than get involved themselves.

  928. If the skies are clear wherever you are tonight,the 12th, you will be treated to a rather special sight. With the full moon being at perigee, it’s closest approach to earth, it will appear around 14% larger than a ‘normal’ full moon and also 30% brighter. The next time we get what is called a perigeal full moon is 14th November 2016 so make the most of it.
    Over and out.

  929. thank you, paul!!! sights are set on the full moon…here, in the great southwest, we will also be treated to the geminid meteor showers this weekend…best nights for viewing will be saturday and sunday nights…gotta get out of the big city, though, and away from all the light polution…

    everyone–please take care…

  930. amit–i, too, very well understand…and owain–i am in no way disputing you…again…”all points very well taken”…my “idealism”, more often than not, stands in the way of reason and logic…

  931. I read somewhere that with all the technology we have today it still takes a woman the same amount of time to clean her house as it did when there was no electricity.

    Weird huh? I wonder how long it would take me to sew together a shirt if I had the need to do it. I figure 3 or 4 hours. With the average salary at around 10 bucks an hour and a shirt costing around forty bucks it would take 4 hors work to buy a shirt. No progress.

    The best discoveries in science were in medicine. More babies survive birth today than ever before in the history of mankind.

    Science is also like a really really big ship in the ocean. It takes time to turn around.

    But it turns. What today is mystical, tomorrow is scientifically explained. This has always been thus.

    As a whole, our combined earthly knowledge is infantile with regards to the many aspects of space and even what we have on earth.

    I look forward to new sientific discoveries.

    -R-

  932. I know what I’m about to write has nothing to do with the thread but some people will appreciate the thought.

    What if man created an artificial life form. A robot with human qualities and what if we had used human tissue in the construction of this robot and it considered itself a sentient being after i reached “conscienceness”.

    All that being put forth. My question is the following.

    Does this “robot” have the right to appeal to our God?

    Will our Gods recognize this being as being in the so-called “Book of Life”?

    Is our God “its” God also?

    Does a man made machine like being have the right to worship like a man that was alledgedly created by God?

    Good stuff,

    -R-

  933. Olmecs are most well-known for their colossal head statues. The heads were possibly modeled after notable citizens, probably leaders. Most of the colossal heads were defaced or destroyed in some way. They were likely altered after the regional center in which it is affiliated with lost prominence, by a conquering group, or the Olmecs did this themselves after a ruler died as a sacrifice to the gods or animal spirits. The facial features of the heads were people with slanted eyes and large lips. Many have argued over whether the Olmecs were of African or Asia descent, because of these facial features. Others believe that this is just an overgeneralization. Most of the heads were deformed, which was likely done at birth for noble children, as the Mayan culture did.

    Other motifs in Olmec art consist of jaguars, serpents,monkeys & possible aliens. Many of the art objects show a transition between human and animal figures, which demonstrates a connection between the two. Most sculptures were made of jade, which was also not found in the Olmec region. This must have been traded from an outside location. Because we found them all over the world.

    Maddness

  934. rico–“robot” or “cyborg”??? watched a show on NATGEO just last night about that very thing…

    being one who does NOT have a scientific mind, i’m sure i do not grasp a full understanding or appreciation…

    why would robots have a need to appeal to God??? much less have the capacity to do so???? “cyborg-netics” is human experimentation..and that makes me squirm…though i DO understand that there are medical benefits that renders the need for this kind of research …speaking solely for myself, i still can’t help but wonder if certain areas of that scientific community don’t believe in God, because they are too busy “playing God”…
    but, hey!!! that’s just me…

    …let the insults begin…

  935. Cyborgs. I suppose in the widest sense of the word – man plus added bits to make whole – we’ve been doing it for years, centuries even. Everything from wooden legs to the prosthetic limbs used during the Second War War to Stephen Hawking’s eye/cheek muscle-controlled computer to people having certain impalnts that can open doors at distance and control the movement of shapes on a computer screen. The question most ask is, “At what point do I lose my humanity?” The same question was posed in the late 1950’s – early 60’s when organ transplants became successful. Is the recipient of multiple organs over a period of time the same person they were at birth? What if we use animal parts? Does that person become animal when 50%+ replacement organs, veins, valves etc are from an animal? My answer is no. It’s what is in your head/mind that makes us human and ‘different’. I’ve always felt that because we ARE able to use other human parts and animal parts very successfully that is a bit of a giveaway as to our genetic relationships. Almost all mammals are genetically close, barring some so called primitive mammals, and goes to show that we are just animals
    albeit self-aware, intelligent and able to build. As someone said, we’re the ape that got lucky but we’re still apes.
    For a robot to appeal to his maker that robot would have to be self aware surely? How does one ‘manufacture’ self awareness in silicon? That is probably the greatest hurdle to overcome unless such awareness spontaneously appears. Only then would it start to question where it came from and why was it here. It is quite possible that some self aware robots would become believers while others would become atheists.

  936. Thats good, but my hypothetical question is:

    Upon technology reaching the ability to create a sentient self aware artificial intelligence. After a while if not sooner, this being would understand that man may have been its creator but would it consider man its God or would it look towards mans God. I imagine there would be some oppression being that a being as such would literally be connected to the W.W.W. and would have to be kept in check.

    But should this being desire to “Pray” to mans God would God hear his prayer or would it be as if an animal was praying so to speak.

    I’m not so sure that using todays theology as put forth Biblically this being would not be considered “man” and some would take offense to having this robot even mention mans God.

    Its my opinion. Prejudice seems to be a part of mans emotional inheritance for some reason.

    This is all a real possibility in the very near future for as Paul said, they’ve been researching this for many many years and I’m sure there have been many breakthroughs.

    Its hard to imagine a machine that thinks like man virtually and perpetually connected to the web. It would know everything plus.

    Scary thought.

    -R-

  937. rico–i am not a “bible thumper”, but if one believes in God, and creation, and God creating man “in his own image”, then these machines would not be of God’s creation, but man’s…we are instilled with a soul, conscience, instinct and free will…and it is real hard for me to grasp the concept of these qualities being duplicated or replicated into a machine…it may very well know everything, but it still must be “taught”..
    i do not know how it could expericence “gut feelings”, or instinctive behavior, or a true sense of right and wrong…
    as to who or what it would call it’s God??? damn, rico–i don’t know…i imagine it could be taught to believe in a God, but would it experience the true essence of that belief???
    or is it just a “learned behavior”??? would it be entitled to call my God, it’s God????

    ya got me, rico!!!!! i really don’t know…

  938. just an afterthought—does “appearance” account for anything??? as limited as my knowledge is, appearance-wise, they have a l-o-o-n-g ways to go before they start taking on human form…they got robots that can walk–but it don’t look human to me…

  939. The thing about this 2012 business that bothers me is that naysayers have a tendency of sounding as though Earth is somehow privileged with exemption from all unexpected-planetary-catastrophe-and-change. We obviously know that isn’t true, it hasn’t been true in this planet just as it hasn’t been true in others that we know of. This is quite a meaty comment page so I’m not sure I’ll get through everything, but I will admit that the whole hubub of it has gotten me a wee bit nervous. Nevertheless, I certainly don’t think 2012 means the end of the world is just around the corner. But, you know, it could happen – I guess. I think it’s probably irrelevant though, if it does happen it happens and if it doesn’t then I guess I can go back to recycling. And stuff.

  940. I think you’re confusing what you call naysayers regarding the catastrophies that befall the earth and those of us who think that all the fuss about the alleged 2012 catastrophy is garbage. We know the earth is hit regularly by asteroids, meteorites, that over geological time the earth suffers tremendousglobal volcanic eruptions such as the Siberian Traps etc. It’s just that the tying in of the end of the Mayan calendar with two totally ficticious events i.e. the geomagnetic reversal and the return of Niburu/Planet X is an act of such breathtaking audacity that it has received the bashing it thoroughly deserves. This non-event is nothing to worry about because it is a piece of fiction that you would be hard pressed to find in even a badly written science fiction novel. The foregoing does not of course preclude some out-of-the-blue event happening but it will not be/was never foretold.

  941. Paul, as the idiot that I am would say:

    Not for nothing, but by saying that nothing is going to happen 2012 realated to the mayan calendar is in fact like saying that something is going to happen.

    You cannot with any scientific certainty much such claims.
    To say that you KNOW FOR SURE, is an impossible statement in itself dude.

    Just pointing that out. There are extremist in this discussion. I want you Paul, to understand that you are an extremist also. Just on the other side.

    They should pay us for this crap.

    -R-

  942. Yes Rico, something will definitely happen in 2012. There could well be another tsunami, devastating earthquake, volcanic eruption, another financial crash, the overthrow of any unstable government but then these happen all the time when viewed over the span of time. None have been predicted by ancient civilisations. Neither have ‘modern’ scientists etc predicted them with any degree of certainty. What one can do is say these things will happen and happen repeatedly. But as for tying them to even a general date let alone a specific time is a non-runner I’m afraid. Everybody knows that the San Andreas Fault and the Anatolian Fault will slip and possibly sooner rather than later but it could well be later. I don’t know of any scientist or ‘knowledgeable person who would put theri reputation on the line by specifying a time. When vulcanologist knew that Mt. Pinatubo was going to blow they put out a warning and when it failed to go off they were ridiculed and people moved back. A few days later it exploded killing many villagers. Guess what? The vulcanologists got tyhe blame for not giving a ‘proper’ warning. We scientists can’t win.

  943. ricochet, by claiming that something will happen on dec 12, 2012 because the mayan calendar ends places the burden of proof on the one claiming that something will happen. thus, when they provide evidence, such as the mayan calendar ending and the certainty that a magnetic shift will happen because of it, the author is allowed to refute the claim, which is what he did. he did not assert that nothing will happen on that date, just that the proof of polar wander happening simply because of the mayan calendar is insufficient and fallacious evidence.

    also, on the point of extremism – what do you mean by this? do you really mean fundamentalist? do you mean it in the pejorative sense? this statement needs qualifying because using ad hominem to refute evidence is fallacious and insulting.

  944. Daniel. If you’ve read any of the preceding mails you’ll just how extreme some of the doom-sayers are. They’re completely deranged. You almost get the impression they’re actually wanting something catastrophic to happen so they can shout they were right all along.

  945. GORDY!!!!! WELCOME BACK—how i’ve missed you!!!!!

    i appears to me that we are talking apples and oranges…when you consider “realms of posibilities” VS undisputed scientic facts, it opens the door to a much broader perspective…that’s all—not really lunacy at all…just a different perspective…

    and paul made a very valid point…”we scientists can’t win”…that is quite the dilemma, when you stop and think about it…
    but it does not stop or deter you from doing what you do best….you keep examining the evidence, right?????

    i, on the other hand, am just watching waiting for more….and that by no means should be confused with “WANTING SOMETHING CATASTROPHIC TO HAPPEN”…quite the contrary!!!!

    hope all is well !!! please take care…
    becky

  946. Good to day to all!
    Nothing to say…. Just wanted you all to know that i am here…
    Marking my presence.

  947. Rico,

    That scenario is scary indeed….
    When such an Artificial Intelligence is linked to a Knowledge Database like WWW. The possibilities are limitless. And if the Androids develop “Greed”, then its not so hard to imagine what they might do..
    Seems like a scenario from a Bad Science Fiction.. But the rate at which Science and Technology are progressing, the line between Fact and Fiction is very thin indeed…
    There is an Android developed in Canada, named Aiko and dubbed “The Perfect Woman”… She even reacts to different emotions…
    Scientists may rubbish the fears of “Losing Jobs” or “Robots taking over the world”.. But i think the fears are justified… Because there is no such thing as “Perfection”, and loopholes are the rule, not the exception when it comes to technology…

  948. hi- amit–always great to hear from you…and likewise—hope you are and yours are well…

    please take care…

  949. I would like to join Becky in saying
    MERRY CHRISTMAS, EVERYONE!!!!
    May each of us have the things we NEED in the comming year.

  950. I used to like coming in here everyday and sharing ideas and such. But then we got invaded by people like Daniel. They came in here and instead of posting anything even closely resembling the subject matter they spouted garbage.

    I hardly come in anymore and I see Daniel there telling me I have to prove this and that.

    Daniel, I don’t know wether or not you understand chat lingo but just in case – STFU-

    Paul, many things can happen and indeed will between now and 2012.

    The calendar obviously points to an end date that coincides with an extraordinary planetary allignment that occurs every 26,000 years.

    Now, as far as I know there is no written history dating 26,000 years ago so no one knows what happens during this allignment.

    Maybe nothing maybe something. According to Maya “legends” writings, there will be an end and a new beginning.

    I didn’t mean any insult by calling anyone an extremist.

    But there are a slew of really annoying people in these threads that just stand around saying that “they know” nothing is going to happen and if you put forth an opinion they ask for proof. This is a forum not a court of law. Unreal.

    If you take the stand that “Obviously nothing is going to happen” then you are just as much a zealot as those that claim something will happen.

    No one really knows shit. We all speculate.

    Lets get these Holidays overwith, theyre very depressing.

    Happy New Years to all of you!!

    -Ricochet-

  951. Gordy,

    I don’t wether or not you believe in God and frankly I don’t care.

    Regardless if you do or don’t you should look into religions. Their origin and the description of their gods.

    Understand that these religions have been around for millenia. It doesn’t matter that an insignificant little man like you or anyone comes around for around 80 years or so and disregards religious knowledge.

    We are not qualified to disregard religious knowledge. It should be studied and analyzed to determine the origin of the God concept on earth.

    Gordy, I’m afraid you’re right. I am deranged.
    I’m what the Christian religion considers “lost”.

    There’s a saying:

    When you look into an abyss, the abyss also looks into you.

    You need to think about a sudden Polar Shift due to Earth changing its axis.

    This will surely make everyone here religious.

    -R-

  952. I think Pauls been doing some heavy reading and hasn’t really told us what he’s found.

    -R-

  953. Hi Rico!
    I agree entirely with your points here.. But i have stopped arguing since long, because its futile. We know what we believe, and it doesn’t matter what others think about it.
    Healthy argument is always okay, but as you know, things got a bit awkward here with people stonewalling themeselves…
    And you get tagged as a doomesday prophet for having an open-minded and speculating upon the possibilities of a unique event…
    Anyways, that doesn’t bother us , does it Bro??
    Wish you a safe, happy and propserous New Year, and the same to all my other friends here!!!

  954. Hey Amit,

    I know, its just that like I said I hadn’t come in here for a while and when I came in today I see that post by Daniel.

    I think he has like some kind of referree syndrome. Spouting ordinances that don’t exist.

    It’s getting scary out there man. That Israel bombing Gaza is getting really really old.

    Sleep well,

    -R-

  955. Yes Rico, its scary and sad… Israel has stepped up the ante… And add to it, the tension growing between India and Pak. I hope it does not develop into another World War!

  956. …and the thread springs to life once again!!!!!
    rico, it is SO GOOD to hear from you…and, amit–you, as always….

    scary, scary times, indeed…now is truly the time for “watching and waiting”…

    if EVER there was a time for “well-being” for ALL, THIS IS IT!!!!!

    PLEASE, stay safe, and be well—thank you, leah!!!!!

  957. Aw Rico. Ya had to come back and spoil everything. Just when it looked as though we could read some reasoned, thoughtful postings in you come and spout your usual bullshit. Ya fucking drongo, you’re a waste of protoplasm

  958. Gordo, dude, you really need to lay offa that Kangaroo meat bro! That shit’ll kill ya!!

    I’m going to ask you a simple question Gordo. This is really simple, even a simpleton like you can answer if he really wanted to.

    Where did Kings and Queens originate?

    I mean, there are still Royals in certain countries which I will not mention. But what makes these people special? Why are they different from everyone one else? How come you can’t be a King Gordo?

    Let me know what you can Google on this while you munch on a Koala burger.

    -R-

  959. As much as I like to look at the sky and as much as I like to read and look into things.

    I can’t imagine that the subject of God or Kings and the like don’t arouse the curiousity of people like Paul and Gordo and maybe even Daniel, of course he has to get off his police high horse.

    I’m going to say this so Paul can understand, Their theory is that we take away credit from mans early accomplishments by accrediting ancient astronauts with the designing of the ancient structures and instructing man on the scientific applications.

    I think. You guys give early man entirely too much credit for assuming that man MADE UP THE GODS.

    If you use your scientific minds in a logical manner you can see which fits better.

    However, Gordo, if you take it upon yourself to discredit Biblical and other ancient writings pertaining to God stories then I can’t help you.

    I’m afraid that the Maya calendar isn’t the only thing that won’t make sense to you.

    Take your eyes off the sky and look at what was left behind here on earth.

    -R-

  960. Why does man fight wars? How did wars start?

    What was the first war?

    Why can’t the Palestinians get along with the Israelis?

    Muslims, Christian, Jews, Hindu, etc…

    Do you understand what a parable is?

    Are you familiar with the message behind the story of the bond woman and the free woman?

    Keep looking at the stars and the erath will swallow you whole.

    All these people that come in here and start calling us names and say that we’re deranged.

    They don’t know anything, it’s the same scene as in any movie where there are always bullys screaming stupid names at someone. You can tell that the reason they do it is because they’re afraid.

    Mostly people that attack us in an insulting manner are looking for support from the majority.

    If they believed as we do they wouldn’t admit it because they can’t stand without support. This is why they ask for proof for everything. They need the support.

    I believe that the world has been deceived.

    Established religions are all false. I believe that when these Aliens or gods left the earth or died off that the men that were in charge at the time tried to continue what what the norm to their benefit and during the course of time with the actual gods missing religion is but a shadow of what it is suppose to be.

    There are artifacts that early man made that tell us stories about these aliens/gods.

    Early man tells the stories almost as a complaint. They didn’t exactly like these gods.

    The history is long. I’m not going to sit here and write the whole story.

    If it walks like a duck its a duck.

    If you smell smoke look for fire.

    There are too many similiar stories from too many varied places to discount as coincidence.

    Gordo, you keep seeing things in black and white. I’ll keep my colors bro.

    -R-

  961. Hi all i am new here.
    Sad to see anger here also..it seems like this is going on everywhere..some have some “strange” opinions and all kind of attacs come from many angry individuals. Sad.

    Can anyone please help me with one question. I live in northern sweden and i can se a very very bright star early in the evening and during night. I know there are some planets that are suposed to be very bright but this one is brighter than any one i have seen earlier years.
    I have seen Nassim Haramein and i wonder…
    regards and pease.

  962. gusan–welcome!!! perhaps it is venus…she has been shining very bright this year!!!!!

    best wishes to you, as well..
    becky

  963. Gusan: The bright ‘star’ you’re seeing is the planet Venus. The slightly less bright one to the side is Jupiter.

  964. Hi and thanks.
    Yes it should be Venus..i forgot to mention that i look south to se “her”.
    I just saw on youtube some guys are saying it is a ufo and so on..in any case she really is shining more than i am used to. generally there are much more collors in the skyes here north, it is quite spectacular and wonderfull to watch this very unusual reflections on the clouds.
    If any of you have seen Nassim Haramein, could you please update on the poles of venus?

  965. Venus is always being mistaken for a UFO and no matter how many times it is reiterated the ignorant will always claim it as a UFO. Sad really.

  966. May the decisions we make in the new year

    be made thoughtfully, remembering that we

    have an effect on those around us.

    H. N. Y. to all.

  967. JAT—thank you and may i join you in your wish??? what a wonderful sentiment…

    well-being…and HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL!!

    becky

  968. Rico. Further to your question about artificial intelligence and it’s
    perception of ‘god’. This is a very interesting problem.
    I’ve thought a bit about this and come up with this answer. If the new organism, let’s for the sake of argument call it a robot, is truly self-aware in the same way we are we have to consider when, in our own evolution, we become self aware. Can we claim our distant ancestors, Proconsul 20 million years ago had this awareness while lazing in the trees? Sivapithecus 10 million years ago? Australopithecus anamensis 4 million years ago;
    Homo hablis and H. ergaster 1.5-2 million years ago? Some have suggested that burial of tribe/family members not only show self- awareness but a belief in some sort of afterlife. This may have first occurred with the early Homo but was well established during Neaderthal times. With artificial life do we wait to see if this self awareness arises and with it a possible belief that its creator is a god – a concept learned through it’s access to human databases or do we tell it we are it’s creator? Depending on the technician who programmes/builds this robot the mind of the robot may be inculcated with a religious belief or not. I believe I was ‘built’ from a blueprint that has it’s origins four and half billion years ago and arose spontaneously and that forms part of my atheism. No higher power ‘built’ or made or crated me.

  969. A quick response to your question about kings and queens. Living under a monarchy in the 21st century is a rather benign thing. In Europe monarchies have no power and are virtually tourist attractions and are actually very little drain on the public purse. They are not yet merely quaint and exercise what little power they have reasonably and very wisely. The monarchy, in the form of our queen, is very well respected in Britain and is a source of great stability. We all know the origins of our monarchy and on balance has been a very good thing for us as has being an island nation. Our monarchs have in general been good if not always benevolent and we’ve had very few bad ones over 1500 years. Their powers have either been given up or taken from them, usually peacefully barring Charles 1, and we rather like them and would, I think, prefer them to presidents. We also know that their powers were not god given.

  970. First of all Happy new Years to everyone here, I hope that 2009 brings you all success in all of your endeavors and many blessings.

    Paul, I think we have differing opinions about self awareness, I take the blame for not explaining this better.

    I meant a semi-human robot for want of a better description. This robot would be part human with regards to blood and the brain tissue used to create it. This robot would become self aware as described Biblically knowing right and wrong and having of course all of the attributes of a human being in terms of emotions and such.

    This being, created of course to surpass human intelligence would be perpetually conneced to the web and therefore have all the knowledge that can be found on the web.

    It would not be human.

    My question is, should this being decide that he isn’t content with mans treatment. Lets face it, Whenever man has gotten his hands on any being differing from what he considers model man he has dominated and controlled these people. Lets say that this being is kept in check which of course would have to be the case.

    If this…Robot decied that he would pray to mans God.

    Does he in fact have that right. Would he be recognized as one of Gods creatures. Would his lament be heard according to established religious scripture.

    Should the Church hear his pleas would they react in a favorable manner towards him.

    In other words Paul. My real question is. Assuming that the hypothesis put forward by Sitchin. Namely that we were changed from probably cromagnon to homo sapiens sapiens. If this were correct, some people would say that it does not matter because even the aliens were created by God.

    But, would their God listen to our prayers?

    If we were not created by the God that created these aliens but by the aliens themselves or the sons of god as it is put in the Bible.

    Can we pray to the God that ceated these aliens. Who is he?

    It seems to me that based on this. We are a Godless people.

    This is all based on speculation of course.

    But I imagine that you understand my point.

    The more you look into the orgins of god on this planet. The more lost you become.

    The early church fathers knew that at some point other writings would be discovered. This is the reason that they called all other writings apocrypha and claimed that all who read these things were anathema.

    Its too late now, we are in a much different era.

    The God that has been worshipped throughout our lifetime is a manufactured entity. We have been duped. There is not one person here that believes in his/her heart in the God described by the Christians or Jews.

    There is not one person here that can say that they have ever felt anything in any church that couldn’t be described as delusion. A simple cold chill is what most people say.

    Lets face it, science has basically called mans existance as some kind of aberration, a mistake/ We exist due to certain chemicals and the right conditions put together. In other words. We are a mistake, there is no reason for our existance.

    According to Sitchins writings we were created as slaves. “To till and to cultivate” as per the Biblical Adam.

    I/m not arrogant enough to believe that the earth is the center of the universe as claimed by the early church.

    I am also not arrogant enough to discount the visitation of creatures of much more advanced intelligence arriving on this planet long before man and at some point interfering with our natural evolution as stated by many stories found in different cultures.

    This suck ass for real. But if the shoe fits.

    Read Sitchin. He doesn’t have all the answers but it’s the closest thing to what probably happened back then.

    Meanwhile we keep living our meaninless vain lives with no goal for humanity other than to work, eat, shit, sleep, fuck, play, and basically each waste 60-90 years bullshitting around.

    Who really cares if something happens on 2012? Does it matter if its a little later.

    If not 2012 something will happen. All sientist will tell you this. There will be more life ending events soon. We’re even overdue some would say. Does it matter if its 2012 0r later?

    We’re not ready anyway. Too much manpower working at walmart and all that.

    What a waste. Israelis actually train their children from an early age to shoot man killing weapons. We’re too busy investing in future wars to see clearly.

    Its easy to believe in a religion, its easy to believe all thats written in the science journals. Its nice to have support.

    With a crutch, the weight is lighter.

    When you challenge the manstream like I do. You get attacked by science and Religion.

    Imagine that. Science and religion both agree that god was not an ancient astronaut.

    But science can offer no explanation for god and religion has this controversial entity thats too impossible to exist. It’s like santa Claus delivering toys all over the world in one day.

    I could go on all day with this. But I’m not writing a book here.

    I also want to say that Ian or whomever created this forum seems to like to limit what may happen in all the forums to one incident.

    No Nibiru – No Geomagnetic – No Polar Shift.

    They’e seperated these into categories.

    It could be anything. Somethings going to happen.

    With that being said, I hope I didn’t depress anyone.

    -R-

  971. Is an entity capable of just mixing available ingredients together an Ultimate Creator of everything ?

    OR…Is the one that provides the ingredients an Ultimate Creator ?

    E.g. The Annunaki, whether fact or metaphor, are like chefs assembling a meal….neither chefs nor Annunaki created the ingredients.

    BTW if we were genetically modified at some point, the apple did not fall far from the parent tree at all……Genetics is having a ball recombining the DNA of so many species, like children following in parental footsteps.

    So homo sapiens have DNA manipulation, lust / need for gold and other presious metals and minerals in common with the Annunaki.

  972. Dear Gordy,

    I both love and study the sciences……so would love to hear any scientific ideas of your own re the conditions on Earth during the near future.
    Be well, Leah

  973. To answer the first part of your reply regarding man’s god and the alien’s god. [Realise of course I’m playing Devil’s Advocate here]. If there is a god/ultimate creator it would be the same god and presumably would be open to hearing and answering [and of course ignoring] every one of its creations prayers? Of course the aliens would have an entirely different interpretation of the ultimate creator to humans and see it differently though the creator would see no difference between alien, human or cyborg/robot as ‘we’ would be its children.

    I’ll read and digest the remainder of your post later.

  974. Paul. Why do you bother engaging with these deranged lunatics? They keep dredging up Sitchin who has been completely discredited and rightly so. The man is a charlatan, con-man and quite possibly a liar who plays on people’s fear and gullibility to sell his rubbishy, badly written excuses for scientifically researched books. I mean, just look at the people who follow his crap – Rico, JAT, et al and a whole host of other deluded uneducated imbeciles.
    Ha, they deserve each other.

  975. Gordy,

    You talk a lot of shit man. Name the Sitchin debunkers.

    You brought it up now name them.
    I only know of one person that was a Sitchin debunker and he’s a fuckin loon. That would be Michael Heiser. Read his book The Facade and you can tell me.

    Gordy, you’re talking about things that you know nothing about. You never read any of the 9 Sitchin books. So what do you know?

    Dude, get a life, stop telling people who they should engage in conversation.

    Either get in on the topics or just STFU.

    You’re becoming annoying with your repetitive use of the word deranged. First of all you’re just being insulting because there isn’t one person here that qualifies as deranged. At least use different terms of insults.

    You’ve shown your ass here man. You’re now showing your limits. Keep it up and you will be weighed and measured. I’m already finding you wanting.

    Paul, the reason I bring this up is that in one of the Sumerian stories, a god kills and dismembers another god. The dead gods woman who is also a goddess prepares his body and says that she will see him again on judgement day or something to that effect. So they recognized another supreme being.

    The only time we see God (Yahweh) going after these guys is his attitude toward BAAL (Marduk). This is found in the Bible, although I vaguely remember something about Anu mentioned using a recast name in the Bible.

    Gordy, you should read a Bible, you’re seriously wanting in that area.

    Also Gordito, write your own shit man, use your own ideas and stop rehashing the same old “deranged lunatic” bullshit words you keep using to refer to people that have thoughts.

    You obvioulsy think that if it isnt in a science journal it isn’t real. You’re stupid.

    -R-

  976. By the way Gordy The 12th Planet by Sitchin was first printed in 1976. Since that 1st printing, it is now in it’s 45th printing, 21 languages. The 45th print is a record for non-fiction books..

    But wait!! Sitchin is an asshole !! Gordy told us so!!

    Gordy when you write a book and it gets printed, then come back here and talk shit about someone that wrote 9 books. Some one thats been to Egypt, and S. America, Someone thats talked with Museum heads and researchers and someone that speaks, reads and write Hebrew.

    You’re not familiar with the Bible in English how the hell can you judge someone that reads it in its natural Hebrew?

    Gordy, like they say in NYC. You didn’t know? You better ask somebody.

    I think you confuse Sitchin for Daniken.

    Anyway, like I initially advised you. Get a life.

    -R-

  977. Paul, there is mention of a “Book of Life” in the Bible.

    I don’t think that those that are, or were created without the biblical gods permission will be found in this book, that would include our project robot. Thats my opinion.

    We have to take into consideration that the Biblical stories relect the Sumerian stories. They originate there. Yahweh isn’t mentioned anywhere in the Sumerian stories and neither is Adam and Eve. This leads us to believe that they were re-cast names of the some sumerian and characters.

    Now when you think about Genesis 6 how it mentions how the sons of god came down from above. Who was god? The sun maybe?

    If thats the case the there is no god as we have come to think of Him.

    Its just the aliens coming down and they were mistaken as the sons of the sun (god).
    This would also make sense.

    Its sad that there are people that dont let others speak. This is the year 2009 and you would think that prejudices have been dominated by character.

    But Gordy is living proof that man is still in his child state.

    -R-

  978. Gordy,

    You know what you should do? Write a nice long post. About 5 paragraphs telling us why there will be no geomagnetic shift on 2012. This way YOU stay on the subject.

    My understanding is that whatever you write on the subject will be boring as hell.

    The subject is a bore. The only thing that gives life to this forum is the 2012 aspect.

    By the way people, I have never discounted Nibiru. I just don’t like to mention it because it provides even more ammo for the screamers like Gordo.

    I’ll be back.

    -Rico-

  979. Gordo,

    In this day and age. You should be scared. Its not about reading a scary book. Its about putting on CNN for a couple of hours.

    This is a scary time we live in. And now.

    Pharoah is the leader of Rome. The Empire will be ruled by Pharoah for the first time ever.

    Barack Obama has become the most powerful black man on earth since Pharaoh.

    Lets have some fun!!!

    Let it be said, let it be done.

    -R-

  980. Paul, the reason I always ask about Royalty is because accoring to ancient writings, the first kings were semi-devine beings. In other words they were offspring of the gods (aliens) and either earth women or earth men.

    I say both because Gilgamesh claimed he was 3/4 devine due to the fact that his mother was a goddess.

    You know whats really ironic? Science was born of religion.

    Supposedly when kingship was brought down to earth from heaven it was set up so that the king promoted morality. The kings were assighned priest that were also semi devine. The priest dealt with the god and the king as an intermediary.

    What we have today in terms of royalty is again but a semblance of what really occurred back then.

    Google Berossus, he’s credited with generating a king list that goes way back some 432,000 years.

    This is very much like the matrix. Nothing is what it appears to be. People take whatever theyre told for granted. Look at Gordo there. He’ll believe anything they tell him as long as it comes from some established form.

    Todays kings and queens like you say are mostly powerless. But thats what the position have evolved into due to the fact that theyre usurpers.

    Had they been real kings and real queens or rather proven semi devine beings then the populace would consider them special.

    But its all a shadow now.

    The laws, the religion, even to some extent the science.

    Funny how the bible states that the first men lived hundreds of years. Now we barely get to 90.

    The word kingship or even king comes from Kin, relative, related.

    Funny huh?

    Thats royalty, thats what differentiates them from the people.

    We take shit for granted.

    -R-

  981. You know, mans search for immortalty is something to be marveled at.

    Ponce De Leon, Cortez, Columbus. All those guys were in search for the fountain of youth.

    This was actually their first goal then gold.

    I wonder, when NASA sends these craft out there. Is there a hidden agenda?

    I mean, I’m already a conspiracy theorist by the Gordys Dictionary.

    Its not a great leap to imagine that since the early explorers were looking for this fountain of youth why not the new explorers having the same agenda?

    They search for planets that can sustain life for what? Whats the first thing they’ll do should they find some kind of life, even bacterial? The pharmaceuticals would have a field day researching these discoveries to determine what application it would have to better man.

    They do it now with the plants available.

    Immortality was denied man in all scriptures. When he has gotten close it has been snatched at the last moment.

    Records show that very few were granted immortal life.

    In one story the equivalent of the biblical noah (Urshanabi) is said to be living amonst the gods and hasnt aged in many many years.

    In another story Elijah is taken to be with God in heaven (this version is biblical and chock full of technological vehicles).

    In another story Enoch is said to have been translated and was taken to heaven to be with god. I’m talking about physicall not spiritually. These three people were reported to have been granted godlike status and live in heaven somewhere. In fact it is said today that Elijah will return, this is Hebrew lore (religion).

    We were supposedly “created in His image”. That would mean that we are exactly like god in all senses, emotionally, mentally, physically, and intellectually. What we were not given was immortality.

    To this day. Man strives for long life, youth, immortality.

    We are like the lightbulb. We were made to die. Planned obsoletion so to speak.

    Funny right? Yeah. This is the stuff that goes through my mind on a daily basis.

    It annoys me that that Adam or Adapa or whomever the story is about, was tricked, lied to, or just plain kicked out of the “garden before he partakes of the tree of life and become as one of us”

    It concerns me that the real ancients wrote about these “gods” as if they didn’t like them.

    They spoke of these gods (aliens) as if they were a pain in the ass really.

    It was the Hebrews that wrote of their God being loving. Somehow they turned these stories around and re-cast the characters and came up with Yahweh and just attributed all the god stories to this one god.

    This god Yahweh lead “his people” into Egypt and left them there for 400 years. Then he tells Moses to go tell Pharoah to let his people go but that he would harden Pharoahs heart so that he would refuse so that he could “show his power”.

    Even in the Hebrew version God shows masochistic tendencies and vainglory.

    There are mant stories in the bible that when read and interprected correctly shows a cruel and sadistic God. This being that these stories are really the works of several gods (aliens) that were cedited to an invented character, Yahweh.

    It gets better and even scarier. This Yahweh, he’s the God of the Jews, not the people (gentiles). In other words, only Jews get to go to heaven and the non jews are Goyim, nationless, Godless.

    Now comes the good part, this is where we get fucked. There seems to be a a rift between Jewish sects. Theres a sect called the Essenes, which by the way is where we get the word essence. These people are believed to have educated Yeshua (Christ), these people were probaly the first Christians.

    So now we have the son of Yahweh, which in fact is Yahweh born as a man, so he’s in heaven and earth at the same time.

    The story to make it simple is that Christ came to save the jews. But since they didn’t accept him as their prophesied savior, he did not meet the criteria set forth by ancient scripture as to how their savior would recognized. You can Google the specs, (just write “why the jews didnt accpet jesus” in google.

    So there you have it. The Jews didnt accpet Yeshua as their savior so the setup is if anyone belives that Yeshuas was god incarnate and accepts him as their savior well you get to go to heaven.

    Now comes the fun part. Imagine that some ne guy comes along now, in these days, and he oes all the things that the hebrew prophesy says that the savior would do. Would this be the Jewish savior that they been waiting for? Possibly but guess what? The guys criteria is also described by Christianity as the infamous anti-christ.

    Its a beautiful thing religion.

    It has been said that the last war will be fought with Gods and men fighting side by side.

    Check it out, just keepin’ it real Gordilocks.

    The uneducated, deranged lunatic,

    -Ricochet-

  982. This I hope will make it clear to all that the knowledge needed to create the “calendar” came from the east.

    Again, if we follow anything from the east, it unquestionably starts in Sumer.

    The first everything, including astronomy and astrology.

    Good luck and have fun !!

    -R-

  983. Leah. The conditions on earth in the near future will be pretty much the same as they have been in the recent past if you’re talking geological, meteorological. If you mean financial or sociological then things will turn down for a while. We will survive.

  984. rico–I’m speechless!!! ….almost…

    PLEASE undertand that i am NOT disputing, just further inquiring…..starting with mankind as we know it right now, and going backwards through all hstory as we know it to be true…we have procreated, regenerated, interbred, evolved, morphed—whatever you want to call it….whatever it was–we are now the end result of it all…even our alien ancestors had to come from somewhere…so that leads me back to the basic fundamental question of “is there but one creator”…not “god”, but creator???? if you believe there is, where’d he come from? and then where’d he come from, and then where’d he come from before that… door after door will swing open as we travel backwards through time (as we know it) and trek BACK across the universe…even back before the “big bang”…

    so..is there but one creator???

    to paraphrase JAT, ( please forgive me, JAT)
    “seeing is not believing, but believing is seeing”…we hold our beliefs by what we have experienced, seen and know to be true (for us), but those basic beliefs also help guide us and enable us to see more….

    i, for one, believe there is but one creator…though i DO NOT KNOW His origin, i believe Him to be true….for no other reason than “that’s what i believe”…His existance to me is personal…the proof of His existance is also personal ( the list is l-o-o-o-n-g, but very distinguished)…yet–i sit here and openly declare it to be true…..

    go figure….

    there are so many unanswered questions and scenerios, dear friend…from the beginning of time , throughout all the universe…BELIEVE IN WHAT YOU WANT!!!
    it is my thought that we have no choice but to “wait and see”…

  985. Good grief where to start? It is very difficult to know which piece of garbage to ridicule first. Berossus. Ok so a guy from 3rd century B.C. started compiling a list of kings and queens going back into history, according to Apollodorus from 430,000 years ago. In the 3rd century BC that might just be acceptable but anyone believing that now is DEFINITELY deranged. Do you know what ‘we’ were half a million years ago? There were probably three types of human wandering around the globe. Homo erectus, H. neadanderthalis and H. ergaster/H. heidlelergensis. Now as far as I’m aware, and coincidentally ALL the palaeontologists, anthropologists as well, these creatures didn’t have writing or a hierarchical society [and possibly not even speech] so how they could have instituted a monarchical system is not at all clear. But I’m sure the deranged tendency on this list will have an extremely clear and concise ‘explanation’. Once it’s been posted here I expect to see it published in either ‘Nature’ or the type of book you find with the corner clipped off and selling for £1.50/$1.
    Also why did Berossus omit Sargon and Hammurabi two great rulers? A 3rd century conspiracy??? I think we should be told!

  986. Immortality wasn’t EVER denied mankind as it’s not [yet?] possible. Try living in the real world ya numpty. All these postings from the deranged fringe make for much amusement when put up on the departmental notice-boards under headings – ‘What Happens When Critical Thinking Fails’ and ‘For Your Amusement’. At least you an all take some comfort that you bring light relief to those of us who do the real thinking in this world. Keep it up.

  987. Have you ever heard of the extraterrestrial Gods who came to earth and made man in their own image. When they first created man, he was perfect, living as long as the gods and having all of their abilities. Fearing their ‘creation’, the gods destroyed them. In the next evolution, a lower form of entity was created, ‘human’, as he exists today. Within Mayan/ Sumerians culture they have legends of visiting Gods from outer space. As in all creational myths, religions, and prophecies, the gods promise to return one day.
    Besides their culture they have legends of visiting Gods from outer space. In the last thousand years the being known as Quatzequatl the Great Feathered Serpent was a God who brought the teaching of peace to this part of the world and appeared as a white God with a beard. The drawings of him look almost identical to the drawings of the being known as Ea or Enki in the ancient Sumerian teachings

  988. Great Feathered Serpent my arse! Alien gods making man in their own image my arse. If these presumed higher being created mankind in their own image they must have been the rejects form their own society if Rico, JAT etc are the end results. It’s taken you a while to find this site hasn’t it? Still you’ll be at home with the other lunatics. Perhaps it’s just as well you’re all gathered here where we rational beings can keep an eye on you. What do you say Owain, Kev, Paul et al?

  989. Gordi, notice how I spell your name in the effeminate.

    First of all, the first kings mentioned by berosus were not men. No, men came later after the intervention. These first kings were supposedly here while your ancestors were still rummaging in the forrest as you yourself pointed out.

    How can you say that immortality was never denied to man when in a biblical story it tells you that God threw Adam out of the garden of eden because he would now eat of the tree of life and be as ‘one of us”.

    There are several stories about man being denied immortality by God or the gods.

    You should better govern your time. As opposed to ridiculing everything that you disagree with perhaps you would do well to look into what is being said.

    Gordi, you seem to think that the Bible and other religious writings have been discredited also. You are an arrogant person that feels that the only truths are what you believe. You are mistaken dude.

    The Bible is a history book, many names have been changed and some end results on the stories but basically its all real.

    Wether you belive that or not is irrellevant.

    The Bible was written probably around 2500 years ago (the OT) and yiou just got here the other day.

    Not only the Berossus thing but there were writings before the flood that we know nothing about.

    In the Bible there is mention of a book called “The Wars of Yahweh”.

    Such book has never turned up. There are many scriptures waiting to be discovered. These discoveries usually occur by some accident.

    You seem to think that man is all grown up now. What was you said? anyone believing that “now” is definately deranged.

    You say “now” as if something changed. I remember paul saying that people are basically the same as always.

    Also, if “now” was so damn different from then, and we’ve grown or learned or evolved so much. Then I leave it to you to explain war.

    Man is soooooo much more intelligent now right?

    Right, the same at exploiting the weak, the same at cheating the poor. Sure they do it better now. But its the same.

    Man hasn’t changed much. We still have people calling people names and deriding them when they don’t agree, you are living proof of character stagnation.

    The fact that I mentioned Berossus was to show that there was the documented existance of these leaders before 10,000 BC.

    Berossus didn’t have access to pre flood writings but he seemed to know the legends.

    Remember Gordi, religion came before science.

    -R-

  990. Gordi, I havent seen any threads by the people you’re calling out to for your crutches (support). You don’t see me shouting out help me anybody!!!

    Tells Godi, enlighten us. We say that man was recreated in the image of a superior being, we believe that mans DNA was tampered with and we are the final product of this tampering.

    Tells us Gordi, what do you believe happened?

    What does science say happened that brought us to this stage?

    Its like the old saying that if you put enough monkeys with typewriters together to type and give them eternity they will write the works of shakespeare? In other words we are a mistake that occured and exist only because enough time had elapsed to make it happen.

    Its a shitty explanation. Its a cop out and its stupid.

    Call all your buddies so they can all come in here once again and infect this forum with derision. Thats all you and your cronies have proven to be good for.

    Stay away from the kangaroo meat Gordi. its no good for you.

    -R-

  991. Gordi, no offense dude but you seem to be under the impression that you are rational and can keep an eye on me.

    That whole sentence is irrational.

    Who are you even in a fictional manner to keep an eye on me?

    You make me laugh. Your vocabulary favors 2 words. Deranged, and lunatic. You may use other derogatory phrases every now and then but those two are the staple of your vocabulary in describing others ideas.

    Imagine if you will a world where everyone was like Gordi.

    Sucks don’t it?

    Keep on truckin’

    -R-

  992. Steph made a very valid point in stating that the stelae of Enki or Enlil look very much alike as those of Viracocha.

    These beings ar described as bearded in a land where man grows no facial hair. The american Indians don’t grow facial hair.

    Explain this to us Gordi. Tell us what science has to say about this.

    You know what the problem is that you’re having, you throw out the baby with the bath water.

    I agree that Daniken and Sitchin added their own conclusions. But I don’t discount everything they said just because I didn’t agree with part of it.

    Now I tell you, read the Bible using a NOW mentality and tell me you don’t see technology described.

    Get a good Bible with an exellent concordance. You’ll find things really quickly and at least you’ll be able to argue better.

    This planet was seeded, bottom line.

    Gordi, imagine, when science proves this in our lifetime, you will feel like the worlds biggest asshole and all the shit you called me will come back to haunt your ass because that would have meant that whatever you called me, you were that much worse. If I’m an asshole, then you’re the crap that comes out. You set the playing field so its only fair.

    The waiting game continues.

    -R-

  993. If the best you can come up with is a reference to the way I spell my name then you’re a totally spent force. Actually the fact that you believe in alien gods manipulating human dna shows you’re a spent force. You and your followers really are nothing in the academic scheme of things and you merely amuse the rational element. I realise your inflated ego allows you to think you’re something but I’m sorry to say DUUUDE, you’re a pathetic and very frightened human being still stuck in the 3rd century B.C.

  994. Bugger. You beat me to the punch Gordy. I certainly echo your ‘deranged’ and ‘lunatic’ descriptions.
    Good to see your comments. It seems as if the rest of what you call The Rational people have been on holiday. The lunatics obviously never take a break in case they miss something …. special. They have of course been scouring the net looking for conspiracies and Terminal Events. Slim pickings for them though.
    Let further battle commence.

  995. Woooo Hoooo!

    Looks like Gordo emailed his butt buddy for his crutch!!

    Welcome back Owain, now we have two mad scientist to call us names!!

    You guys sound like some cartoon characters you know that right?

    Its like I’m in some insane twilight zone with narrow minded losers calling me names.

    I’m gonna write what I want anyway, you losers can read it too for your….Edification so to speak.

    Lets talk about UFO’s. You say there is no such thing as ancient astronauts because one hasn’t bitten you on the ass so you don’t beleive. Ok, so lets take UFO’s.

    I’ll start with aircraft pilots. These guys are trained. They are professionals. If you, Owain, or Gordi work in any capacity then you know what a professional is. He’s a competent, trained, paid individual. How many pilots and astronauts have cliamed to have seen UFO’s? In fact how many pilots have chased them and had them tracked by ground based radar at the same time?

    So, I’m saying UFO’s are real. The question is. Did they arrive recently or have they been here for millenia.

    There are paintings that date back to before there were man made aircraft that depict UFO’s in the art. Mostly religious works.

    But Owain and Gordi will say that UFO’s are a myth.

    The only thing I can say about you guys dosen’t quite do you justice. You guys are stupid. Thats all I can say.

    You use words like lunatic and deranged and you feel so cool man. “Look at me Gordy, ain’t I cool? Did you see me call them lunatics man”!!??

    You guys seem to have this super hero complex that compels you to do this in the forums so you can feel like you’re doing science a favor. You’re both stupid.

    I went to other forums connected to this one and I seen you all over those also doing the same things. In fact I seen you guys post a thead to each other strategizing which forum to hit next to deride people.

    Like I said, you’re both stupid people.

    You know that you can be educated but stupid right?

    When I worked in NYC I met this woman that had a masters degree in merchandising. She asked me to take a look at her battery operated pencil sharpener. You know what I found when I opened it? The front end of a mecahnical pencil. This intelligent, educated woman put a mechanical pencil in an electric pencil sharpener.

    Just like you Gordi, stupid.

    Tell me how UFO’s are all crap, I await your insults.

    -R-

  996. Gordi, there is no such thing as a conspiracy.

    Our government discloses everything to the masses via our local newspapers and CNN.

    I know that much man!! I trust whoever the people elect to lead us. These are smart educated people just like you. Look at George Bush, or Margaret Thatcher.

    These are people that the public can trust 100%.

    I understand that people work under these leaders but the leaders only choose people they can trust so I can trust them too.

    They don’t hide anything. I don’t know who the hell invented the phrase plausible deniabilty.

    Its a joke phrase!! There would never be any reason the say plausible deniabilty to any government official.

    Clinton was going to tell us all about the blow job he got its just that we didn’t give him a chance. I understand all this, I’m an adult.

    There is no such thing as a conspiracy.

    Watergate was a setup to make Nixon look bad.

    I know for a fact that if someone found a UFO, crashed or burried or whatever. We would be informed post haste. They would invite CNN immediately to the scene.

    There is no such thing as a conspiracy right?

    Does the word naive mean anything to you?

    -R-

  997. For the self appointed idiots that seem to be under the impression that you are rational and are remotely able to keep an eye on me (or anyone) would be well advised to heed the suggestion offered many times,
    Care and respect shoud be taken when dealing with people you are clueless about.

  998. I’m going to make an anology in order to simplify conspiracies and put them in their proper perspective. This is for those that don’t WANT to understand.

    Conspiracies are like drug smuggling. For every ton thats intercepted, 25 tons get through. So for every conspiracy discovered, there are at least 25 that you don’t know anything about.

    I’m being modest in these figures but you get an idea.

    KISS – Keep it simple stupid

    -R-

  999. To those that call others lunatics, because they DON’T accept that each has the freedom and right to their own beliefs according to their findings….and further that none are obliged to adopt the opinions of others, and especially not simply because they are commanded to do so.

    Belief is not a pre-requisite to the study of anything, in fact impartiality is preferable. So why the name calling of people that have studied a great variety of subjects and their relativity to one another, in order to glean a clearer picture. Specialists studying one tiny part of the picture, seem to think that they have the answers to everything.
    Appart from an opinion re the near future conditions (opinion not being fact or set in stone) MORE OF THE SAME… not one has brought any scientific provable and reliable facts. Not even anything to support WHY just MORE OF THE SAME.

    The problem with researching whilst in the employ of a pay master, is that the content and release date of all findings to the masses is dictated by the AGENDA of the paymaster. Anyone thinking that all is shared with the masses (even though so much is funded by the unsuspecting masses) is living in a fairy story.
    Even so called privately funded research is paid for with profits created by the spending power of the masses.

    Whilst the peoples of Earth are kept divided, so too will knowlege remain……divided and unseen, except by a few. Mushroom management……keep them in the dark….divide and rule.

    So Gordy, may I enquire as to some scientific facts and calculations to back up MORE OF THE SAME, re e.g. Tectonic, Volcanic, Earthquake and Climate activity, and e.g Solar activity, to name but a few relevant areas, which effect Earth.

  1000. Recent findings of James P. Kennett (UC Santa Babra) and Douglas J. Kennett,
    re Younger Dryas, for which the research group is taking flack and critism from their peers, is deffinately worth reading.

  1001. Intense heat and pressure being necessary to form diamonds (even if only nanodiamonds), and Iridium, being the key.

    Altogether too many past cultures have left accounts (way too similar to ignore) of an event that is cyclical, and that effects all of Earth, for it to be wise not to keep in mind. To be fore warned is to be fore armed. If nothing happens……all the better, and more time to study and better understand everything.

  1002. TISK–TISK, GORDY!!!!! shame on you!!!! who’s watching you watch us????

    seems like the “inmates have taken over asylum”!!! for those “assigned” to watch–take notes–lots of notes…

    RICO–carry on…you need no help from me!!!!!

    JAT–thank you…well said—once again!!!!

    take care–

  1003. owain–very good!!! you and gordy continue to substantiate that the “twilight zone” –at least– exists…so proud of you both–that’s a big “first step”!!!!

  1004. Yea Owain, and you’re Rod Serling.

    Anything I say here can be substantiated, I didn’t make up anything I say. When I speculate I make it clear that just what is it is, a speculation.

    Priest were the first people with medicinal knowledge, astronomical knowledge, astrlogical knowledge.

    It was much much later that there were obviously no longer aliens amongst man that knowledge was lost.

    Later as man tries to keep up his religion with no gods, we get what we have today. An empty religion. A shadow of a religion. The word worship comes from the hebrew word Avod, to work, so mans worship of these gods was the work he did for them. Now worship is singing and praying to nothing, a semblance of what used to be.

    If you really are dedicated to science and a viable scientific explanation for God or gods and angels or whatever. Then the only option that makes any kind of logical sense is ancient astronauts.

    Science can offer no explanation for the origin of these deities. Sure there would be some Owains that try to come in here and like the Bible, in a few plagiarized sentences say something about planetary association and how man invented all these pantheons of gods all over the world.

    They will tell you that the pyramids and such were built at a certain date and by certain people using certain technology and or anaimals. But they don’t know, they have no evidence of this. its all speculation. Science offers several options on how these structures were built. If they knew how it was done it would be just one explanation but being that science offers several then it has to be dismissed as speculation.

    So in reality when you say that giants built the pyramids it has the same validity as saying that men did it using mammoths and levers and pulleys.

    Science is a lot like man made laws or ordinances. What right today may not be right tomorrow.

    Remember when doctors used to “bleed” patients because the knew about the bodys humours. This shit was taught at fuckin Oxford University for crying out loud.
    Remember when the man laws didn’t allow negros to use the same bathrooms as whites?

    Same thing, they’re like politicians, they change with new discoveries and better understanding.

    So tell us about academic science Owain. Your God, science, is fallible.

    Actually science as represented by Owain and Gordi is very much like the old Catholic Church.

    If you don’t believe what they say is absolute truth. Then anathema to you, you deranged lunatic. Its about attacks and persecution. These guys haven’t stone me to death because its illegal but they probably wish they could all get together line me up at a wall and just stone me to death in the name of science and to shut me up because I’m spreading fear.

    You guys are archaic. You are going to become obsolete soon.

    -R-

  1005. I know what I ask is a stretch for some of you but try an see what you come up with.

    Imagine if the world governments revealed to the public that Nibiru was a reality. That it was headed towards earth and would be here around Dec. 2012 and that we should expect calamities and that we should prepare.

    Use your imagination and explain what happens next.

    -R-

  1006. You don’t know what attrocities are until you see modern imagination at work with the thought that it was all over.

    It would be a disaster of unprecedented proportions.

    Some would actually wait till the last days to make come true their most absurd and obscene desires.

    Maybe not though, maybe I have the wrong impression of man. Maybe we’d unite and put everyone to work on a defense system right?

    Right.

    -R-

  1007. The Theia theory, was for many years, unprovable and unsubstantiated, and was the subject of much ridicule……was it any less viable then than now……or did the theory become the most likely to be true to date, of how Earth formed, due to approval.

    Even now the theory cannot be proven 100%, nor will it be……science has as many theories as myth and legend, except that what is propounded by scientific researchers as fact today, changes rapidly with further understanding. e.g. 40 years ago kids were tought Space is a vacuum……and kids today are tought that space is not a vacuum…..but each generation was tought such things as though it was the one and only deffinitive unchanging truth in fact.
    Some scientists have gotten off their God pedastals, and started to speak of their findings in a realistic way, admitting that what they have discovered to date, is exactly that…….what is known to date.

    Re watching space….why does the Vatican study space ?

  1008. By more of the same I mean that there will be the same levels of tectonic activity as there is now, ditto meteorologically. There is ALWAYS tectonic activity. Sometimes there will be an earthquake which will be unpredicted and unpredictable. There will be BIG weather events, hurricanes, tornadoes, typhoons as there always are. One doesn’t need scientific calculations for this. 2009 won’t bring anything extraordinary as a result of some mythical/non existent planet appearing from the outer solar system, neither will the brown dwarf, red dwarf hove into view and cause a cataclysm. It’s time YOU started reading books on astronomical emphemerides etc and realised how bodies in the solar system moved and are positioned.

  1009. Not heard from JAT for a while. Off no doubt whizzing around the solar system in his alien space craft. Question. Does JAT really stand for Jet Assisted takeoff? It would tie in nicely with one of his? previous postings about leaving the planet, I think. It’s so hard to keep track of the insane ramblings of the lunatic fringe.

    The world government could NOT, repeat NOT, keep the approach of Niburu under wraps.. Thanks to the internet and extremely sophisticated amateur telescopes it could be picked up fairly easily even at a distance of 25-35 astronomical units. And that is obviously well within the capabilities of every professional. Do you honestly think all those people could keep it secret?
    Regarding the so-called Google patch. The area in question shows nothing, that is nothing, at infra-red, radio, x-ray, u.v. or microwave wavelengths. The patch is there because it’s not been viewed by visible light detectors. Nothing weird about that. There are many regions of the sky that are ‘explored’ at only one or two wavelengths and it very often precludes visible wavelengths. Just because humans see in the visible region of the electromagnetic spectrum we automatically assume everything has to be viewed at those wavelengths. Far more information can be gleaned at other lengths.

  1010. Leah. Of course everyone has the right to believe in whatever they want. No problem with that at all. However, it’s the pedalling of unsubstantiated, unproven, unprovable ideas/theories as truth that is unacceptable. Put forward these theories of alien intervention, rogue planets roaming through the solar system etc but have them subject to rigourous scientific study and analysis and if they DON’T stand up them they must be discarded. Anything else is not acceptable. Sorry but that is how the world operates and long may it continue.

  1011. Dear Owain,
    Just so there’s no mis-understanding…..I have not written re my beliefs…..each to their own I say.
    Archeology and Geology are the fields that will, as they have over the past few years, dig deeper as it were and make new discoveries at an exponential rate, that will help a massive amount in straightening out History…..replacing agenda based accounts
    with more truthful historical accounts.

    Re e.g. carvings, rock pictures and accounts of visitors from space……in particular the paintings of entities in what appear to be space suits…..or hazmats for that matter…..raise many questions. If produced in more recent times and are a hoax…..then the expert scientists dating and findings are incorrect etc. If produced in ancient times……who would not want to know what they represent and the truth about the past.

    When all is said and done…….the wisest thing that mankind can do……given what has been learnt to date…..is to hope for the best, prepare for the worst, and take what comes.

    Mankind is not in control of itself yet, nevermind being in control of Earth, or anything for that matter……so best not to say NEVER……if it can be conceived of…..it can happen.
    Be well, Leah

  1012. Gordy,
    If you have furnished proof of any one thing….it is that your greatest love is to insult, to be contrare, and argumentative.
    A glib opinion (being like backsides….everyone’s got one) MORE OF THE SAME, and the back up proof you offered…..more earthquakes etc…..does not constitute anything other than opinion.

    You have contributed no factual substantiated scientific evidence of anything at all. Maybe you should attend to flaws in yourself…..before to bad mouth others.

  1013. Like the FLEAS on a dog’s back, arguing about who owns and should rule the dog. None of the human fleas living off the back of Earth……can lay claim to be right and all knowing…….like e.g. Gordy.

  1014. Whats the point in visiting any other thread like e.g. 2012 No Comet……if the likes of Gordy fill up the thread with nothing but bad mouthing……..and crusades to force their opinions on others, which is nothing about nothing.

  1015. Who are you to make such monumental decisions as to who wrong, having presumed you are right. Do you think yourself in charge….you act like Judge and jury, not to mention self professed psychologist.
    Write something that is other than your opinion re others….that is if you can.

  1016. As with many religious people the Vatican astronomers want to know answers to scientific questions and like some ministers are able to divorce science from religion. A former colleague of mine who was deeply religious was a physicist and keenly interested in cosmology. He believed that the Big Bang occurred and once the the universe came into existence ‘god’ came into existence and created humans.

    Yes science has as many theories as myth and legend but it does NOT say they are fact until proven. By all means believe aliens helped the Sumerians etc. but subject that theory to rigourous scrutiny. If geology can reconstruct the past 4 and half thousand million years then archaeology should be able to verify the existence of alien intervention three thousand years ago.

  1017. 2012 could become academic, if recent events in the Middle East escalate. What most don’t seem to want to grasp, is that we all live on what is tantamount to one speck of dust in the Milky Way, never mind on a Universal level.
    There is no place to hide, or escape to, from anything at all that occurs anywhere on, in and around Earth. Whether polution,nuclear fallout, or the consequences of natural events, it reaches everywhere……air, water, land and every life……eventually. If Mankind cannot grasp the commonalities of a possitive nature and unite peacably……then maybe this common fact will help….Earth is for all life alike a shared cemetary……Earth is where we all get born, but its also where we all get to die. Its only a question of how and when.
    We don’t need to like, just need to be RESPECTFUL TO EVERYTHING…….even here.

  1018. GORDY?????? DAMN!!!!!!!!
    leave JAT alone!!! can YOU fly through space on a unicorn????? excuse me, was that a “no”???

    LOLOL!!! that’s what i thought!!!! he and his unicorn need NO PRODDING from you!!!!!
    …and the mere fact that you would even bring it up, makes me think you might be a tad-bit envious!!!!!!!!??????

    leah–thanks so much for joining in on the “fringe”…your thoughts and perspectives are so very much needed…here and EVERYWHERE!!!!! please..carry on!!!!!

    every one, please take care—gotta meet JAT at the unicorn ranch again..his ride needs new shoes!!!!

  1019. owain–before i go–thank you so much for your response–HEY!!! we can handle the scrutiny!!!! it comes with the package…

    thanks again, and please take care…
    becky

  1020. On a different note……has anyone here noticed the similarity between the arrangement of the neurons of the brain, our cities and roads when viewed at night from a plane, and the cosmic web.

  1021. Rico. Never once have you been accused of making anything up. What I’m saying is that you’re spouting rubbish. By constantly citing the works of Sitchin and his lunatic supporters and by failing to present any verifiable proof you and your supporters invite ridicule.

  1022. Ah Becky. As with all lunatics you reveal yourself by the overuse of the exclamation mark.
    JAT leaves himself open to derisive laughter when he claims to be off somewhere in his spaceship.

    Got to go as there are other threads to check on like the ‘No Comet’ one. Plenty of dribbling idiots contributing there. Not seen many of you lot over though.

  1023. forgive me, gordy…just trying to have a little fun WITH you…but certainly NOT at JAT’s expense….i will refrain…

  1024. besides that–it was a unicorn, not a space ship…and it is ludicrous that you would even take stock in a remark that was made in JEST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  1025. Unfortunately it’s difficult to tease any humour out from the ravening crap that the idiot[s] post here.

  1026. Yes Rico science IS fallible but when that fallibility is shown up we go back and try again.
    Re: the Pyramids. It is now well established how and when they were built. Workers villages have been discovered along with bakeries, breweries, butchers shops etc etc. The workers were NOT slaves and were extremely well treated as healed injuries have been found on their skeletons and they were buried with all due ceremony and respect. Each pyramid were built over a period of 25-30 years usually at the beginning of each pharaoh’s reign. No aliens or alien technology was employed.

  1027. It would be very difficult for the likes of myself and, say, Owain to have the monopoly on opinions on nothing about nothing when Leah and Becky seem to have cornered the market in vacuous ramblings. At least Rico and his boys have firm opinions and ideas and contribute something even if they are wrong.

  1028. Pole magico: No it will not happen. You can live the next four years in peace with an easy mind. But don’t worry the lunatics will come up find something else to try to frighten everybody with and it will be accompanied by the random childish musing of Leah and Becky – of that you CAN depend

  1029. You may now change the “care and respect”

    suggestion offered mant times;

    to a warning.

  1030. Well, its late and I’m titred so this has to be a quickie honey.

    Owain, I sat that on the discovery channel too about the villages and bakeris blah blah that was dug up nearby.

    I know the Pharoahs had many pyramids built. But I’m talking about Giza.

    The one where Vyse faked the incriptions crediting Cheops with making it. There were no inscriptions found in the pyramid and all the pyaramids that were built after attempting to use the same inclination callapsed. You know all of this you just bait me with half scientifc explanations. Thats why I like to say worldwide structures because these buildings were litterally found all over the world.

    We still have the Baalbek issue don’t we?

    I gota go,

    Laterz,

    -R-

  1031. Gordy,

    Didn’t you say you were going??
    I wonder what brings you back here amongst us deranged lunatics??

    Surely there must be other places where you can exercise your gray cells.. Places where you find the intellectual level of people on par with yours..

    Then why do you bother reading what we say?? Why do you want to “keep an eye” on us?

    Its all too evident what you think of us, primarily Rico. Frankly,. if i had such an opinion about someone as you have about Rico, i would not bother about that person, he/she will be beneath my contempt, cease to exist for me…. But you, well, you just can’t let go of him… I get a picture in my mind… A hyena having a scuffle with an Elephant, the Elephant shakes it off, but the Hyena scampers back and hangs on to his back again… Rico is certainly not the Hyena here…

    Answers please??? Insults are also welcome…. Because i heard a wise man say that the only time you will hear a person criticise himself truly is when he insults others,.. So go on and poile em up, i love to hear more about you, from your own words!!

  1032. Good to hear from you Paul (Eaton Jones),

    That would be one of the uses of the 1500 plus deep underground bases worldwide, to house the chosen ones.
    Be well.

    If e.g. artifacts like the Summerian tablets were nonsense, then why so much funding to decipher them. Why the importance attached by every country to have museums to house and study such artifacts. Why the race by certain countries to excavate in foreign lands, and take home the artifacts they find.. E.g. The Berlin museum houses so many important Hitite artifacts.

    Re science but medical research in particular, as something came up recently……..Grapes and grape extract specifically….Alternative medicine has for a very long time stated that they have strong anti cancer properties. This has been pooh poohed by western medicine, even instigating laws to prohibit the use of alternative medicine. Now….lab tests have shown that grapes and grape seed extract kill cancer cells at a phenomenal rate. Its a case of….it only works when they say it works and only when they say it can work.

    Its the corporations that own western drugs that are the ones out of order, not the researchers per se……they are only the hired help. They can’t make profit out of people eating grapes……the trick is to convince the masses that once the grapes etc have been transmuted in a lab and the extract arrives in e.g. expensive capsule form…….that it will effect the desired cure…….but not in its natural form…..grapes. When the drug is available….years from now….it will not be as efficient as in the natural form…..lacking in all the other supporting and enhacing ingredients that arrive with it in its natural form.

    Its the ones that fund the research that are the ones who’s goals are, to own and manipulate knowlege.
    Even the word Uni-vers-ity, implies, the place where all knowlege can be aquired, as though it can’t anywhere else.

  1033. AMIT: I have never set myself up as being better or above anyone else let’s get that straight. I make mistakes, trip over my big feet and get shown up as fool. No problem with that. But I, along with others here, will NOT allow lies, subvertions of scientific truths, random blatherings, pseudo-intellectual babble posing as philosophy and all the other garbage posted by Rico, JAT ,Raven, Becky, Leah etc to go by without comment and dogged pursuit. As has been said previously, science does make mistakes, travels up blind alleys but it acknowledges them and tries again.

  1034. While I wouldn’t claim to speak for Gordy, or any of the others, I sure he’s not claiming that science will save any of us.Rather that science constantly examines itself and attempts to move the bodey of knowledge forward. However, I would claim that science does offer the world the way forward. When the crunch comes in the form of disease, finding new energy resources etc. who do we turn to? Artists? Religious leaders? Sports presonalities? No. Scientists, that’s who. Even with all science’s failures, dead-ends it still comes out in credit. That does NOT mean that all the other disciplines are worthless, futile or pointless far from it.

  1035. Rico: You say that if the public were made aware of an impending disaster like Niburu heading our way the world’s population would unite and build a defense system. Just how and what? If this planet were to make and appearence there is nothing on any drawing board that wopuld be able to deal with a planet-sized body. Only in some science fiction will you find planet-moving engines or strange matter explosives that would destroy something so big. Also how do you protect Earth and it’s inhabitants from the rain of asteroid sized debris that will smash into the planet. And remember you can only do this with 20th/21st century technology.

  1036. thanks so much, gordy…aren’t we special? …makes me all warm and fuzzy…

    amit and JAT–hope you both are well…good to hear from you…

    leah–regarding the neurons, etc…perhaps reflections…”as above, so below”…

    best wishes to you ALL…please be well…

    becky–the babbling brook, if you please

  1037. Dear Paul,

    I was thinking in terms of regular bombardment by comets from the Oort cloud, as per Muller (based on Alvarez findings), Sepowski and Raup 26m year cycle, wrather than from a single planetary sized object. Maybe this cycle is caused by a companion star or maybe by something else. The cycle is proven and accepted, irrespective.

    The 1500 DUMBS are distributed globally, I live not far from one, possibly more, that I’m not aware of. Their existance in such numbers will always raise questions, as to their purpose…..shelter from war, onset of ice age, comet or asteroid bombardment…..aliens…or any combination thereof …..what ? One thing they are not…..is holiday destinations, or anything of a non defensive nature.
    Their construction has been paid for by the masses, who have a right to know how they are meant to benefit from their existance. If they were not built for the benefit of all………it just beggars the questions WHY, and WHAT is their purpose.
    Likewise the camps that Espumpin enquired about……one doesn’t build such facilities unless they have a present or future use. Is it possible that such things, at great cost, exist to keep the minds of the masses occupied, and in perpetual fear and confusion ?
    Be well Paul, and Happy New Year.
    Leah

  1038. Dear Ricochet,
    Love the pun “Pharmaceuticals are making a killing”…..yup in more ways than one. Soooo many nasty side effects from drugs.
    Be well, Leah

  1039. Just before I head home a few quick responses.
    Any deep bunkers will be useless against an impact from a planetary size object as total obliteration would result. If a planet size body came anywhere near the earth/earth’s orbit, say within 5 – 10 million miles which is 20 to 40 times the distance to the moon, the gravitational effects would in all likelyhood send the earth either into the sun or out of the solar system all together. Anyone in a bunker would survive longer than those on the surface but would perish fairly quickly. People in bunkers might survive an impact up to the size of the asteroid that put paid to the dinosaurs but anything bigger would be an extinction level event as they’re known. You have to imagine just how big these asteroids are. The tail end of a ten mile wide one would still be in outer space as the front end was burying itself in the ground. If one much larger impacted the continental US in say Missouri [near the centre I think] the shock waves would possibly cause the San Andreas Fault to fail, trigger earthquakes and volcanic eruptions in Yellowstone Park, the super volcano, and destroy any deep bunkers. Again depending exactly where it struck it could even open up the ancient fault line where two tectonic plates collided tens of millions of years ago to form the continental USA.

    The time and money spent decoding the Sumerian texts has no sinister agenda. In order to learn what ancient cultures did on a day to day basis a lot of time has to be devoted especially if one is dealing with difficult or heretofore un-deciphered scripts. More than three quarters of the cuneform tablets deal with tax gathering [nothing changes does it?], amounts of barley and other crops harvested and the mundane – letters to and from foreign ambassadors, princes and so on. I think the oldest yet found IS about the number of bushels of barley. They most certainly are NOT nonsense or worthless. The more we learn about our ancestors the more alive they become. Although I’m an astronomer and marvel at the night sky one of the greatest thrills I have experienced was at the British Museum and standing in front of one of the great Winged Bulls that grace the Palace of Sargon II at Khorsabad. To actually touch the surface of these savagely beautiful and imperious statues is utterly thrilling and humbling.

  1040. Paul, I’m not saying its possible to defend earth from something like that but I bet anything they’d try to convince people it could be done. They spend zillions putting crap in space even and some people would get even richer than they already are.

    I understaand that science is always reexamining itself. I’ve been saying that all along.

    I understand also that science has made great advances in the field of medicine and has a great deal of people. But as you can see its a business now. The pharmaceuticals are making a killing.

    I also understand that religion has helped a great many people.

    What I’m saying is that you cannot tell someone they are wrong about a theory and use an ever changing science as a crutch.

    These knuckledraggers scorn wahtever I write and say they do it in the name of science. Theirs is the only sane voice in this forum.

    Owain actually tells people nothings going to happen 2012, don’t worry about.

    This to me is hilarious. Who the hell is Owain to proclaim something like that?

    Then when we come to the conspiracy aspect you have to agree that science does not control the ultimate use of its discoveries.

    Their respective governments always look first for military applications so scientific discoveries don’t always offer benefits initially but as by products. Like Nuclear energy right?

    First they blow up some yellow people then we see what we can do with it.

    What I am also saying is I believe that even the Bible when read properly does not describe Yahweh as all knowing. Ever since I was a kid and thought of god I always looked up.

    All the cultures gods come from above.

    I think theres an explanation as to who these gods were and its either being kept tight or it isn’t being studied with the fervency which it deserves.

    As for the tablets there are thousands of them.

    They are in Akkadian and Sumerian but you know as well as I that if theyve found 25,000 tablets here and 20,000 there there are more somewhere waiting to be found.

    This continues.

    I have to go eat,

    -R-

  1041. Dear Leah/Rico,

    Absolutely agree with you on the point of pharmaceuticals…..
    They keep supressing cures for terminal diseases like Cancer. If a permanent cure is discovered, where will they get funds in the name of research?? They are controlling the whole medical system infact… When your doctor prescribes medicines to you, he includes a couple oftablets to prolong the illness and induce some side effects to get a couple of visiting charges extra…
    Ayurveda, the herbal medicine system that was used in Ancient India is rubbished by modern doctors, but all those who have tried it swear by it, ayurvedic medicines can do wonders…. But the Pharma Giants do their utmost to supress this stream…
    Grapes have wonderful properties because they contain a fair dose of ORME, because their roots go a mile into the Earth.. The older the Grape Vine, the deeper its roots go, and richer it becomes in Mono Atomic elements… Ditto with Aloe Vera…

  1042. This is Monday night and theres like nothing on TV so I’m watching the WWE and THC back and forth and THC has what they’re calling Armageddon Week.

    They have all this biblical stuff about giant earthquakes and plagues and how earth has a pandemic about once every hundred years.

    This got me to thinking, thats a big media, you know, television, this forum in contrast is very small.

    I wonder if Owain and the other scientific saviors write emails to THC scorning them for spreading all this fear. I mean they do simulations of NYC being hit by an asteroid and its really spectacular. Much more fearsome than anything I can say in here I’ll tell you that. They don’t say 2012 either, they say that there are about 7,000 – 14,000 asteroids that are earth threatening that they can’t account for but that they track about another 7,000. They say we can get hit at any time never mind 2012.

    THC did a segment once on 2012 and they connected all kinds of diverse world prophesies to that date.

    Thats spreading fear baby!

    If you can’t tell that the media, in terms of entertainment movies, and books, and other exposures, have escalated fear in the last 20 years then you must be too young and missed it.

    We have been bombarded with inasion movies, depicting near life ending events using impressionable special effects.

    The toys that you see now are insane. Look at what McFarlane puts out in his spawn series, grotesque figures with horrible features. This exposes children to desensitization of some kind of morality I would imagine.

    Its as if we’re being prepared for horrors to come. Especially the children.

    I can’t say I expect anything but escalation to these exposures in the toys as its obvious that theyre targeting the very young.

    The governments or whoever the hell it is manipulates the masses in this manner.

    Armageddon Week on THC folks. Heres your chance to attack a real fearmonger huh?

    Its a damn shame when grwon men don’t know why they act the way they do. They invent justifications so as to feel they’re providing a service for the good but its all bullshit.

    The jury is still deliberating, don’t go too far,

    -R-

  1043. Gordy,

    When we quote scriptures from Bible with reference to modern technology, you are quick to rubbish our clais, but what if a Scientist and that too from NASA does it?? Will you be so quick to discard his claims as trash?
    Ever heard of Blumrich?? ‘The Spaceships of Ezekiel’ by Blumrich is an award-winning book that should be read by anyone investigating Biblical mysteries. Blumrich is a scientist and NASA designer of the Saturn V rocket. He wrote that his son informed him, after reading an Erich Von Daniken book, that the prophet Ezekiel described a spaceship landing. Blumrich was positive that he could disprove that concept because of his technical skills in this field. The ancient text could not possibly portray a feasible craft; he assumed. The NASA designer wrote that he was never so surprised when he actually read the Book of Ezekiel. The ancient words did indeed conform to a realistic vehicle.

    In the beginning of Ezekiel, the prophet wrote of the approach of four faces from above. In reality, the ‘four’ referred to the landing legs of the craft. Blumrich was shocked when he read the Old Testament report of ‘straight legs’ of ‘burnished brass’ with ’round feet.’ The NASA scientist himself designed the metallic, straight legs and round footpads of the lunar lander. The famous quote from Ezekiel is ‘a wheel within a wheel.’ Once the lander touched down, Ezekiel saw wheels. This is the exact chronology of what would occur with a modern vehicle. The UFO landed, transformed into a wheeled rover then rolled along the ground. Ezekiel was only familiar with wheels from simple carts that moved in one direction. But, the prophet described wheels that moved in all directions which was completely alien to Ezekiel.

    Enoch was Methuselah’s father and Noah’s grandfather. His Book should be in the Old Testament. It has surfaced from independent sources which validate the ancient text. The Book of Enoch was edited out of the Bible by the Ecumenical Council for its controversies. Enoch, like Ezekiel, was taken on many flights by the gods (angels) and witnessed great horrors and beauty. 39/3: ‘…a whirlwind carried me off from the earth…’ There are numerous references to whirlwinds which ‘spirited’ Enoch away into the sky. The angels ‘showed me all the hidden things’ and ‘mine eyes saw all the secret things of heaven.’ Enoch saw views that ‘no man shall see.’ In 33/4, Enoch states: ‘I saw a great and glorious device.’

    32/2: ‘And thence I went over the summits of the earth, and passed above the Erythraean Sea, and went far from it, and passed over the angel Zotiel (another ship?).

    14/18-19: ‘I looked and saw a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal and the wheels thereof as the shining sun…from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so great that I could not look thereon.’ Enoch mentions crystals and wheels. The throne could be a vehicle where the angels sat and underneath were fires from the rocket thrusters. The ‘vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward and bore me into heaven.’

    There are numerous references to PORTALS or windows where Earthly and celestial views appeared. 33/2: ‘…portals of the heaven open. 3. And I saw how the stars of heaven come forth.’

    The Book of Enoch speaks of much destruction, chaos and corruption on Earth; as well as among the angels. Like Genesis, Enoch mentions ‘giants’ and ‘the Watchers.’ There were ‘the Satans’ – the ‘Sons of Heaven’ – ‘angels of punishment’ – ‘instruments of Satan’ – and the same specific Genesis angels: Michael, Raphael, Gabriel, etc. ‘God’ is never mentioned; only plural gods or angels. Enoch was taken to the mountaintops where the gods resided. He observed things that no primitive could understand. The angels ‘corrupted the sons of man.’ It was these various humans, with the technology, that played God and decided the fate of the children on Earth.

    The main reason Enoch’s Book was deemed heresy and taken out of the Old Testament could have been the accurate astronomy. Page after page concerns the sun, moon, yearly cycles and heavenly statistics. ‘Paths of the sun and moon,’ ‘their stately orbits,’ ‘courses of the luminaries’ and ‘revolve in their circular chariots’ are only a few quotes of Enochian wisdom.

    75/8: ‘And I saw in the heaven running in the world, above those portals in which revolve the stars that never set.’ Only from space are there stars that never set. Remember, the Church during the time of Ecumenical editing condemned accurate astronomy. (Ask Galileo). Religious officials wanted the public to think that the Earth was flat, did not move and was in the center of all things.

  1044. Paul,

    Do tell me what you think of the post above….

    And Gordy, please make sure that you READ the post before replying….. I am sure you will learn a lot from it!

  1045. The story of Jericho is told in the Book of Joshua. The actual site of Jericho was found. The stone walls were over ten feet thick. What could bring down massive walls? According to the Old Testament, it was the power of the Lord. Marching around the stone fort and blowing trumpets could not possibly shatter such walls. The Ark of the Covenant was there and responsible for ‘tumbling down’ the walls of Jericho. There are numerous references to, again, a great shout.

    Jonah was taken aboard a submarine. But, the prophets would not have that modern word; so the description became a ‘great fish.’ How were the 10 Commandments cut into stone? The finger of God could have accomplished this if they were lasers. The burning bush may have been electric. The Virgin Mary could have been artificially inseminated.

    The Biblical reports were not understood 500 years ago or even 100 years ago. It was only until the 20th Century and its technology that we could finally understand what was really happening. There is evidence that our REAL prehistory was similar to science-fiction. Most people either reject the Bible as nonsense or believe it is the absolute word of the Supreme Being. The Bible is the most amazing account of Close Encounters. The events were real; they happened; but the truth is extraordinary.

  1046. The Genesis story of the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is not a mystery when you plug in the idea of a modern technology. How do two cities, realistically, get wiped off the face of the Earth? The inhabitants of Hiroshima and Nagasaki may know the answer. Two, human angels came into town and warned people of the coming destruction:

    19/17: ‘…Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.’
    19/24: ‘Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven.’
    19/26: ‘But his wife looked back from behind, and she became a pillar of salt.’
    19/28: ‘…the smoke of the country went up as the smoke of a furnace.’
    19/30: ‘…he (Lot) feared to dwell in Zoar: and he dwelt in a cave, he and his two daughters.’
    The angels directed Lot and his family to save their lives by running to the mountain. A land mass can protect one from a nuclear blast. The cities were ‘consumed’ with ‘brimstone and fire.’ This is a perfect description of a nuking. A mushroom cloud moving vertically could be the meaning of ‘went up as the smoke of a furnace.’ Lot’s wife did not make it; not because she looked back, but because she trailed ‘behind’ the rest of her family. A primitive seeing an atomic explosion would be more than stunned; they would tend to stop in their tracks. Not looking back is good advice to those running for their lives. The ‘pillar of salt’ could have come from finding her body later and discovering the effects of radiation. Finally, hiding in a ‘cave’ because of the fall-out until the land was ready for habitation is very logical.

  1047. Exo-scientists are critically inspired by the work of Dr. Francis Crick. In his book Life Itself: Its Origins and Nature (1981), Crick — a Nobel prize-winner and the co-founder of the shape of the DNA molecule — claimed an advanced civilization transported the seeds of life to Earth in a spacecraft.

    Nobel laureate Dr. Francis Crick who posits an extraterrestrial origin for life on Earth, is not alone in this viewpoint within the scientific community. The same year that Life Itself was published (1981), Sir Fred Hoyle authored Life from Space, in which he took essentially the same position.

    In fact, in an article that year in Nature, he wrote:

    “The likelihood of the formation of life from inanimate mater is one to a number with 40,000 noughts after it…. It is big enough to bury Darwin and the whole theory of evolution. There was no primeval soup, neither on this planet nor on any other, and if the beginnings of life were not random, they must therefore have been the product of purposeful intelligence.”
    (Hoyle: 1981, 294:148)

    Dr. Hoyle opted for a kind of pantheistic intelligence that created life spores in other parts of the Universe, with these spores ultimately drifting to Earth to begin life as we know it. Because of the tremendous (and impressive) complexity of life – and the obvious design behind it – other scientists who challenge “official science” supported by political elites, are beginning to endorse this conclusion as well. Leslie Orgel, one of the well-researched heavyweights in origin-of-life experiments, is also on record as advocating this scientific position

  1048. Fred Hoyle and Chandra Wickramasinghe proposed the panspermia theory in the 1960’s and were dismissed virtually out of hand. However, in recent years thanks to the discovery of complex organic molecules and amino acids in space some astronomers/astro-chemists have looked again at the theory. While it certainly isn’t accepted yet an idea is that these complex chemicals were brought to earth and ‘mixed in’ with pre-existing organic molecules giving rise to life. Until organised complex molecules are detected in space the theory will remain just that. It doesn’t really matter WHERE the precursors of life evolved the fact remains that life as we know on earth evolved here. The oldest trace fossils have been found in rocks 3.9 thousand million years old which is only 600-700 million years after the earth was formed. It may of course be possible that the ancestors of the very first earth organisms DID evolve on Mars or beyond the solar system and DID drift throurgh space in suspended animation for aeons before landing here and becoming re-animated. However, the weight of evidence so far points to the earth as our birthplace.

  1049. AMIT. Re: Sodom & Gomorrah. The two best-fit theories that I know of are an asteroid impacting central Europe [Czechoslovakia or Austria I think]. The resulting cloud of debris on reentering the atmosphere would be interpreted as a rain and fire and sulphur. In fact the event is recorded on a Babylonian cuneform tablet.
    The other favourite explanation is a volcanic eruption. A faultline runs through that part of the Middle East and if you have a splitting of the fault as in Iceland and parts of East Africa the result isn’t a classic volcano but rather a fire fountain fissure eruption. The fire bombs alone would utterly destroy a city from that period as they weren’t cities on anywhere near the same scale as they are today[ Hope that isn’t patronising you!! I’m sure everyone here knows enough history to know the size of populations and habitations at that time]. This would match the description of fire and brimstone from heaven. Also fleeing to the mountains would enable people to escape lava and fire which would flood easily across the plain. As to warnings. Certain people are sensitive to subtle changes that occur prior to earthquakes and eruptions and there may well have been earlier ‘quakes.

  1050. “He couldn’t argue, of course he didn’t know it all, he had never really thought about how much more there was to learn. He had been so busy trying to prove that other peoples viewpoints were wrong, and that he was right, that there wasn’t room for him to learn new information. His mind was made up, he didn’t want to be confused with more information that didn’t fit his viewpoint.”

  1051. rico–been watching THC, as well…the shows are riddled with “it is thought…”, “this might…” , “that might…”, “if ths happens…”, and “it could possibly…”

    seems no one knows for sure, but someone, somewhere felt the apparent need to put it all out there….but why in an “armageddon” format? that, in and of itself, is a bit misleading…

    amit–always thought i was considerably “well-versed” when it came to the Bible…i humbly stand corrected…

    rico,amit, paul,and leah–as always, thank so much for the insights…muchly appreciated…..

    be well and please stay well,
    becky

  1052. There’s also a theory about why S&G actually disappeared from physical view. As they were close to the Dead Sea the ground would be damp or even wet. When the earthquake struck the wet ground liquifies and for a while essentially behaves like a liquid. Therefore the city initially burnt from above [rain of fire] and then sank into the liquifies ground. I believe the remains of the two cities weren’t actually found until this theory was put forward by Harris & Bearow in the mid 1990’s. An experiment by Haigh & Mabadhushi using high speed centrifuges showed that such liquifaction and subsequent disappearance could have happened. Remember no actual remains of the biblical cities was ever found so it ties in very well. If one is prepared to believe in and accept a physical, natural destruction of S&G then there is no need to invoke a supernatural [god driven] explanation. If one does then one can say in this instance that scientific method has explained a myth/legend. I won’t say trounced or debunked in this case.

  1053. Regarding Ezekiel. As I’ve said here before this story does at present defy explanation. I have never claimed to be a student of the bible though I have read parts of it. Not being a theologian I forebear from comment. I will however try to comment where the historical or archaeological can be used to explain biblical stories. E.g. the historical existence of a near eastern prophet called Jesus. Enough Roman and Jewish rabinical account point to his existence. As to his purported divinity I happen to disbelieve it. A simple question I’ve asked theologians is why did god send his son at that time? Again I believe OT prophets forcast the saviour would come at a time of need and great upheaval. The situation in the near east 2000 years ago was no worse than today. In fact historically speaking less so. There were times prior to then when a saviour would have been welcomed and certainly times siince then. I know many Jews felt a messiah ought to have appeared in the mid 1930’s onward. A friend of mine lost relatives in the camps and some of them who survived spoke about their wavering faith at that awful time. Ditto Christian ministers during the First World War felt that god died on the barbed wire. But I’m straying from the point

  1054. Amit, you are the man, I keep telling people to read their Bible I don’t feel I should have to do all that work for them. But you wrote all that shit up.

    Paul, I stick to the OT stuff in the Bible because the NT cannot stand alone without the OT. Its like you said in the OT there are prophesies about a savior. Then came Yeshua and was credited with being the son of god and the actual savior, the hebrews didnt accept him so a whole new religion was born.

    I stick to the OT. It doesn’t matter if you read from the OT or the sumerian tablets or the Veddas or whatever. They undeniably describe technology.

    Flying craft in battles in the air.

    Many stories of devine encounters are found in the bible. Many more outside the bible.

    These devine encounters with alien beings and they are unquetionably alien as in no scripture is god or the gods described as originating on earth, they are all of alien origin until you read about the marrying earth women or other goddesses on earth. But they all originate elsewhere.

    The thing is that all science can offer at this time are theories, and religion would never want anything like this disclosed so its like swimming upstream trying to acquire evidence.

    I understand that we dont have concrete evidence to support the ancient astronauts theory, yet, or as you say explaning sciences position, at this time. But lack of evidence is not evidence to the contrary.

    Gordi and Owain were right there calling people names when they first talked panspernia long ago and then as you said it wasn’t as far fetched as was previously thought so where does that leave the gordis of the time?

    There are many other theories that first suffer derison and are discredited before being proven true.

    My position stands that the more bizarre findings like the calendar and the stones at baalbek and other locations were products of an outside influence.

    I lean towards better examination of the biblical technological descriptions and I’m not fast to call stories myths.

    Man has no reason to exist as we stand. Some say we live for the glory of God.

    But even science can’t say why we’re here. Looking at it through the eyes of an unfeeling science, an unemotional science, a science that scoffs at what it cannot initially grasp, we are mistakes. We have no actual purpose.

    This isn’t a valid explanation for me. I could even accept that these aliens did what they did to create their LULU, or slave or whatever to mine their gold or metals.

    This is a more viable reason to me, we’re then remnants of slaves and this at least offers an explanation as to why we are the way we are. Aimless without masters. This is why the masses are so succeptible to the slavic existance that have been imposed on humanity.

    Its funny, but if you ask a basic person what he/she wants out of life work is in the top five. They want to work to earn a living.

    Even now the politicians talk about producing more jobs, so the people can be happy, jobs,

    People eat that shit up too. Theyre already conditioned.

    Paul if you read the Bible every now and then, read Genesis 6 and tell me if that makes sense to you.

    God is going to cause a flood to destroy mankind who he has repented of creating because the Sons of God have despoiled themselves marrying earth women and having children by them. So why not punish his fuckin sons, theyre the ones that fucked up. But nooooo! Theologians accept this at face value. All of mankind was corrupted except Noah so God give mankind a break. In two biblical sentences this God cant make up his mind wether to destroy man or let him live. Perfect God huh?

    No, not perfect. It seems looking at the Sumerian stories that man got caught up in these godly wars and was used to fight battles too.

    Mortal slaves loving a psychotic god.
    Its a beautiful existance isnt it?

    Imagine if God was actually as depicted by Christianity, an all powerful all encompassing all knowing, omnipotent immortal being made purel of soul and conscience but with the ability to manifest himself as a man. Oh and creator of all the universe.

    I think not.

    It was the more advanced fuckin aliens, and let me tell you something else. The technology that they develope is much much different from ours.

    You guys need to look at those carved niches in the great pyramid and its obvious there were pars that were removed.

    This pyramid has been described as having power, and I don’t mean electrical in the conventional sense. They mastered some other technolgy as far as all the descriptions go.

    There is so much crap that if you put it all together a picture begins to develope.

    But its entirely up to the individual what he/she wants to believe.

    You all know me.

    I’m the main lunatic here.

    I shine with moonlight look at my glow!!!

    -R-

  1055. Paul, here man take a look at this:

    http://www.aish.com/spirituality/philosophy/Why_Dont_Jews_Believe_In_Jesus$.asp

    This will help you understand the reason that the Jews didnt accept Yeshua as the messiah.

    I know you aint too keen on prophey but the Christian faiths anti-christ will meet all the criteria of the Jews.

    Whos right and whos wrong?

    I belive that a savios comes only after a major calamity. A good example is the Viracocha quetzacoatl legend. After a great flood or other disaster someone comes to help.
    Thats what I’ve found in my reading.

    Whatever,

    -R-

  1056. Paul the fact that all those tablets recorded taxes and the like just stands to show all the first that were recorded in sumer. Thats how far ahead those people were of the rest of the world.

    It was an aberration the way that civilization exploded overnight.

    I give credence to what those people say when they tell us from whence their knowledge came.

    -R-

  1057. An earthquake at a given resonant frequency / harmonic causes the collapse of only those structures that resonate within the same range. Like the resonant harminic that shatters a glass etc etc. Who or whatever they were in ancient times, they understood resonance and harmonics, or frequencies and vibrations by another name.

  1058. Panspermia, while never a popular theory, has not, in it’s modified form as Paul outlines above, been dismissed out of hand by many theorists. As Paul says until far more complex molecules even up to DNA are discovered in outer space then Hoyle’s original theory has to be treated with scepticism. By all means let’s look at the modified one and work on that.. But it will remain a minority theory.

  1059. Panspermia may not have been dismissed out of hand, and you may dismiss ancient astronauts out of hand and you may dismiss all religious creation stories out of hand.

    But what do you have to offer? Nothing man, we’re back to being here because certain chemicals mixed accidentally and viola’ , we’re here.

    See gordi, the reality is that science isn’t really in any position to dismiss anything, it is obligated to explore the theories put forth thouroughly. Especially when it has nothing to offer.

    They still dig, they still find. Like they say in USA sports, it ain’t over till the fat lady sings !

    -R-

  1060. Paul,

    The human genome contains 223 genes that do not have the required predecessors on the genomic evolutionary tree.
    In other words: At a relatively recent time as Evolution goes, modern humans acquired an extra 223 genes not through gradual evolution, not vertically on the Tree of Life, but horizontally, as a sideways insertion of genetic material from bacterial.
    Now, at first glance it would seem that 223 genes is no big deal. In fact, while every single gene makes a great difference to every individual, 223 genes make an immense difference to a species such as ours.
    The human genome is made up of about three billion neucleotides (the letters A-C-G-T which stand for the initials of the four nucleic acids that spell out all life on Earth); of them, just a little more than one percent are grouped into functioning genes (each gene consists of thousands of “letters”).
    The difference between one individual person and another amounts to about one-letter in a thousand in the DNA-alphabet. The difference between Humankind and Chimpanzee is less than one percent as genes go; and one percent of 30,000 genes is 300.
    An analysis of the functions of these genes through the proteins that they spell out, conducted by the Public Consortium team and published in the journal Nature, shows that they include not only proteins involved in important physiological but also psychiatric functions.
    Moreover, they are responsible for important neurological enzymes that stem only from the mitochondrial portion of the DNA the so-called “Eve DNA” that humankind inherited only through the mother-line, all the way back to a single Eve. That finding alone raises doubt regarding that the “bacterial insertion” explanation.
    Unless further scientific research can establish, beyond any doubt, that the only possible source of the extra genes are indeed bacteria, and unless it is then also determined that the infection (horizontal transfer) went from bacteria to Man and not from Man to bacteria, the only other available solution will be that offered by the Sumerian texts millennia ago.
    Until then, the enigmatic 223 alien genes will remain as an alternative and as a corroboration by modern science of extraterrestrial civilizations, and their apparent genetic participation in the Human Genome.

  1061. Gordy/Paul,

    Why do the scientist need to gape at the outer space for complex DNA in outer space when the proof is right here on Earth? And right within each of us…
    As scientists began to decode the human DNA molecule, they found something quite unexpected—an exquisite ‘language’ composed of some 3 billion genetic letters.

    “One of the most extraordinary discoveries of the twentieth century,” says Dr. Stephen Meyer, director of the Center for Science and Culture at the Discovery Institute in Seattle, Wash., “was that DNA actually stores information—the detailed instructions for assembling proteins—in the form of a four-character digital code”
    It is hard to fathom, but the amount of information in human DNA is roughly equivalent to 12 sets of The Encyclopaedia Britannica—an incredible 384 volumes” worth of detailed information that would fill 48 feet of library shelves!
    Yet in their actual size—which is only two millionths of a millimeter thick—a teaspoon of DNA, according to molecular biologist Michael Denton, could contain all the information needed to build the proteins for all the species of organisms that have ever lived on the earth, and there would still be enough room left for all the information in every book ever written.
    Who or what could miniaturize such information and place this enormous number of ‘letters’ in their proper sequence as a genetic instruction manual?
    Could evolution have gradually come up with a system like this?

    Bill Gates, founder of Microsoft, commented that,
    “DNA is like a software program, only much more complex than anything we’ve ever devised.”

    Can you imagine something more intricate than the most complex program running on a supercomputer being devised by accident through evolution—no matter how much time, how many mutations and how much natural selection are taken into account?

    We therefore have in the genetic code an immensely complex instruction manual that has been majestically designed by a more intelligent source than human beings.

    Even one of the discoverers of the genetic code, the agnostic and recently deceased Francis Crick, after decades of work on deciphering it, admitted that,

    “an honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going”

    Lee Strobel writes:

    “The six feet of DNA coiled inside every one of our body’s one hundred trillion cells contains a four-letter chemical alphabet that spells out precise assembly instructions for all the proteins from which our bodies are made… No hypothesis has come close to explaining how information got into biological matter by naturalistic means.”

    Werner Gitt, professor of information systems, puts it succinctly:

    “The basic flaw of all evolutionary views is the origin of the information in living beings. It has never been shown that a coding system and semantic information could originate by itself [through matter]… The information theorems predict that this will never be possible. A purely material origin of life is thus ruled out.”

    Besides all the evidence we have covered for the intelligent design of DNA information, there is still one amazing fact remaining—the ideal number of genetic letters in the DNA code for storage and translation.

    Moreover, the copying mechanism of DNA, to meet maximum effectiveness, requires the number of letters in each word to be an even number. Of all possible mathematical combinations, the ideal number for storage and transcription has been calculated to be four letters.

    This is exactly what has been found in the genes of every living thing on earth—a four-letter digital code.

    The evidence certainly points to a resounding checkmate for evolution!

    Still you guys dismiss Creation/Panspermia?? Science huh?? And i’ll be a Bugger!

  1062. Rico, Brother , sometimes spoon feeding is necessary.. I’ve been quite for a long while… And i realised that i was giving the impression that my point of view has changed.. It never did.. I was always here, reading your posts and getting encouraged to find out more myself….
    Its just that i was begining to think that there is no use screaming from the roof tops about the obvious evidences to support our views..
    Not anymore…..

  1063. You go Amit ! Spewing forth knowledge and wisdom!

    See I know all that stuff but I’m not a teacher. I’m just a nobody. I get the urge to write some good stuff sometimes but I cant memorize all that stuuf Amit just posted.

    Funny but that seems to work against evolution unless you adopt the sumerian versions. Of course if we can track everyone back to one eve then it all started in one place. But that cannot be. We know that there must have been hominids in various places on earth at once. But in only one place did modern man stem from. It has to be considered.

    How do we answer that? How is it possible that civilization or advanced man blossomed in one location on earth as opposed to several at once.

    Not only did they advance in one place but the advances were unimaginable by any standards, of course this didn’t have precedent so we have nothing to compare it with. But it truly boggles the mind the ay these people evolved morally and technologically far and above ant other peoples of the time.

    I was watching the news and apparently Saddam Hussein had a shitstack of antiques hidden in palaces, these artifacts are going to be made available to western scholars soon. Southern Iraq or Mesopotamia is where it all began.

    You know here in Puerto Rico we have what has been described as the worlds most powerful radio telescope. The Arecibo telescope.

    I’ve never been there but I pass the place like 8 times a year. I have to make an effort to visit.

    I still think the SPT was built in a strategic place to look at certain celestial locations that cant be seen properly from anywhere else.

    You know we joke around and all and we see movies with space ships and we hear tales of people that have claimed to have seen UFO’s. The truth is that if anyone here should ever see a UFO up close, like in the woods at night just 30-40 feet above the ground and waht looked like materials you’ve never seen before. In your heart it would be manifest that this didn’t originate on earth.

    How the hell do you tell anyone? Imagine gordi seeing some shit like that. I guess that would change his whole life. He would probably join a convent of nuns.

    Have a nice sleep my friends,

    -Rico-

  1064. Paul,

    The theory about S&G you posted seems plausible. But there is a glaring loophole. Say, it was an Earthquake, but how did “God” know about it beforehand? How could he warn his people? Or do you think they posessed highly advanced technology which we dont have even today, to predict quakes? But if you say so you will contradict your erlier caims that our ancestors were “less” advanced than us….. Catch 22??

  1065. Rico,

    Coming to UFOs and Alien Abductions… I wonder of you have heard the name “Credo Mutwa”?

    Gordy/Paul, I know aht you would say about Credo…OK Leave him. But you must have heard the name of John Mack, Chief Psychiatrist at Harvard University? He was one of the staunchest “Opposer” of UFO Sighting / Abducion Claims…. But now he is on the other side.. And it was not that he started believing these things overnight.. It was a gradual transformation… He was very reluctant but he had to admit that there was truth in many such claims.. He had an open mind and an objective outlook.. Thats whats needed here.

  1066. No doubt the idea to attribute other labels to DNA, other than GACT, has occured…….after all, letters or even numbers, are not the only methods of categorisation and coding.

  1067. Dear Paul,
    I had refered to resonant frequencies in general and example. In the case of liquifaction, the resonance matches that of the conditions of the land that structures have been built on, not the structures themselves.
    I’m fully conversant with the Mexico incident, amongst others.
    Be well, Leah

  1068. Dear Gordy,

    It is a human trait these days to consider that which is given freely without expecting anything in return….such as writing here….be it you or anyone else…….as being worthless. It does wrather beggar the question as to Why are YOU writing here at all ?
    Is it because you know you would not be able to SELL the writings you’ve posted here ?
    Man has reached a point that he can only recognise the value of anything by a price tag. That is why so many books are written on all subjects….even 2012, because if man is not made to pay for the info, he thinks it of no value. Don’t forget that FREE, is also a 4 letter word, like Love, Care, Help, etc etc.
    I wish you well…. irrespective.

  1069. Gordy,

    If you are incapable, or just don’t see the value of what has been written…..that’s fine…..but …it not being in total agreement with you and whatever your views / ideas are, is a petty excuse for your libelous posts, other than the one re More of the Same.

    This may come as a shock….we live on Earth, NOT in Gordyland. You are at liberty to be judge and jury of ONLY yourself, and no other.

  1070. Gordy,

    By all means bring on the enlightenment……but say SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE……other than what is NOT true in your OPINION. You have written no scientific material…..no ideas of your own….you have contributed NOTHING…….not even CRAP……just a pile of libelous insults. At least crap’s good fertaliser. Libel’s good for lawyers only, and bad for the one issuing it.

    Enough with the “Only I and my fraternity are right about everything…..and everyone else is a lunatic”. Start acting your age instead of your shoe size.

    Yes WE live in the real world…..where all are free to voice their opinions…….whilst you live in Gordyland, thinking you can dictate to all what they should think. Grow up….best do it fast…tick tock tick tock.

  1071. Leah: In the case of an earthquake liquifying the water-logged ground and the destruction of S&G the resonance wouldn’t make a difference as it’s not the quake which destroys the buildings but the quake ‘destroying the ground. When the ground liquifies the buildings of whatever material or size simply get swallowed up.
    This happened in Mexico some years ago and will happen again as the majority of great Mexico City is built on a swamp.

  1072. Gordy,
    We can’t know who or what might have made you the way you are, or caused you so much pain to be so argumentative, and terrified by a few people merely discussing ideas, granted far removed from the way in which you perceive the world, but which we are at liberty to do.

    Even if this is not the case, be assured that your agenda to cause emnity and diversion, will NOT work. Stop wasting your time and energy.
    Be well, Leah

  1073. AMIT: The reason scientists look for DNA and other complex molecules in space because if anyone wants to claim that life originated there you have to find the proof. Just because it’s here on earth doesn’t prove it originated in space – quite the reverse in fact. But as the scientists here repeat ad nauseam a theory is not abandoned until it is proved false. Some are looking at a refined panspermia theory. Sometimes one has to wait. It’s all to simple to opt for what appears the easy way out.

  1074. S&G. It is ENTIRELY possible that the warning god gave to the inhabitants was written in afterwards.

  1075. The 223 extra genes that are peculiar to humans isn’t in any way odd or puzzling. Given the 5-7 million years since the divergence of Homo from Pan it is well within the parameters of evolution for it to have happened. There is evidence for genetic changes in the past 15,000 years.

  1076. If you want to be pedantic I was referring to outer space.
    Like most I believe life on earth started on earth. I don’t preclude the possibility that organic molecules have arrived from outer space.

  1077. Rico: Among the diatribe you posted on 6-1-09 at 09:25 I think you should be directing that rant about the bible and god punishing the sons etc etc etc and whatever at a theologian not the astronomers and archaeologists here.
    I agree absolutely with your statement, there is so much crap that if you put it all together a picture begins to develop. What you get is a big picture of crap. And this is what you and your deranged followers insist on pedalling. At least on the net it’s kept away from most of the public where it can do little damage. Have you ever wondered why scientists get their work published first in BOOKS and PAPERS and you imbeciles put in onto the internet? Think very hard about it. Perhaps you can get your carer to think for you and then explain it carefully using pastel colours.

  1078. Its wise to remeber that in such a place any and all can profess to have degrees etc, but by the same token some may maintain and say they that have none. Its why I hold with JAT’s care and respect stance.
    Nothing wrong with occassionally giving as good as has been dished up.
    Be well, Leah

  1079. Dear Gordy,

    If you dig deep enough, for long enough, without pre-conceived ideas, beliefs or wishes as to what you will find…..eventually you will bump into truths. If you do so, it may not please you, but at least it will be TRUE..
    No one of us little humans alone can hope to aquire all true knowlege….and especially not in a solitude. Its one of the reasons places like this exist…..for sharing of ideas, no matter how out landish they seem…..like brainstorming.

    Ignorance being bliss….however keeps one in the dark, living tantamount to a lie…..until its too late. No harm in keeping all possibilities in mind…..only the foolish, do not…..believing that only what they want, is what they get. They do not.
    Be well, be safe, Leah

  1080. Leah – What has the price of anything got do the rational people challenging the demented ideas presented here as universal verities? The way you equate paying for something as bad and then segue into some teenage pseudo-philosophical babble about free having four letter like love, care help and so on is not in any way a mature argument or an adult-like point of view.

  1081. Only to point out that we DO live in the real world – a world that is governed by the laws of reason and science; a world that works on laws described by science, a science that is proved and provable. It is not a world where aliens built or aided humans to build pyramids, Sumerian ziggurats, the large stones at Baalbek, devised the calendar as used by the Maya or anything else that in your particular fairyland. Grow up and take off the rose-tinted glasses you apparently wear.

  1082. The value of what has been written by Rico/Espumpin/JAT/Becky and yourself has no value at all. I’m very surprised that nobody has brought this to your attention before. I’m assuming that none of you have actually said any of these deluded things in public, even to friends or family members, and save them only for the internet where you will find equally demented and brain-achingly stupid people.

    Still it falls to those of us with an education to bring enlightenment.. It’s a long and difficult job but never fear I’m up to it as no doubt are Owain, Kevin and Paul. Let the merriment continue.

  1083. Gord-a-saurus,
    As highly educated as only you consider yourself,
    If it has no value at all- why comment on it ?!?

  1084. Throughout your postings you TRY to impose, arbitrarly, your standards on people, attempting to force whatever your version of whatever, is*)(^%$#@!

    Meanwhile tohers offer topics for thought or to gain perspective, or Just a Thought#%@^

    Now maybe I lost something in my interspace travel, BUT,
    I do not recall anyone
    requesting salvation here.
    Thank you anyway.

  1085. Time to join them, I say;

    “Stop! Please stop.” Stop selling. Stop writing with such know-it-all conviction.

  1086. gordy–you can be dispicable!!!!! i openly, freely, and willingly admit that i DO NOT possess your degrees, education, book-smarts, or anything else that affords you your arrogance and pious self-righteousness—AND I TRULY THANK GOD FOR THAT!

    that does NOT, however, disqualify me, or any of my lunatic friends from being here!!!!!

    a bigger man might overlook such shortcomings as you seem to feel we all possess…you are a pathetically lost soul…and i will not let your degrading, belittling manners (or lack of them) interfere in my purpose…and that is to find my way!!!
    if you cannot help, then do not hinder…lead, follow, or get the hell out of the way!!!!!

    please, forgive me, all the rest—gordy, i wish you well…but you have stepped way over the line…reign in your demons…..

  1087. To everyone else Except Gordster,

    I will apologise for Gordy and his lack of…
    (well, that would take to long) But I apoligise for Gordy, and, following his lead ; you must accept it@#$%^&*()=-)(*&^%$#@!!!!

  1088. To everyone else Except Gordster,

    I will apologise for Gordy and his lack of…
    (well, that would take to long) But I apoligise for Gordy, and, following his lead, as he has taught us, (repeatedly), you must accept it. @#$%^&*()=-)(*&^%$#@!!!!

  1089. Gordi, you’re insane. You comlain that we talk all this crap on the internet but I already explained to your dumb ass that this stuff is on television. Do you get cable TV in your part of australia?

    I see that now you have added imbecile to your vocabulary.

    Thats a leap.

    I haven’t seen you post a single comment on the thread subject.

    The things I’m writing about I didn’t make up. You also say that we have no ideas of our own. You idiot, if its isn’t found in a science journal it means nothing to you. In fact, you only believe what science percieves to be correct at any given time.

    Fuck you, you’re a follower and a pack dog. Look at how you call your asshole friends to applaud your bullshit.

    Oh ! Owain, Peter, paul and , and , Mike Hock.

    The on;y people causing arguments in here are you and your so-called wanna be scientist friends that came in here insulting others acting like you’re superior or some shit.

    Your shit stinks too man. All we have here is opinions. All you can spout is what can proved or has been proven, you don’t go out on a limb for shit.

    You’re a follower, kiss my ass man.

    -Ricochet-

  1090. gordi, its ironic that you say we come to the internet to write this stuff.

    This is exactly what I said about you guys, you come here to call people names that you wouldn’t call them to their face, so you do it here. You get your kicks that way. I’m sure if you spoke IRL to people the way you do in here they’d be lining up to kick your as on a daily basis.

    So don’t come here saying that this is where we come to write our stuff.

    Its you that comes here to get off insulting people> I guess this gets you puffed up huh?

    Makes you feel superior. big man, big ceegar.

    Dude, get a life, we’re here discussing theories and hypotheticals. Don’t come in here saying that we say these things like they were proven fact.

    I may be a little dramatic now and then for entertainment but its all speculation. Just like bleeding patients, or did you forget?

    Science is an imperfect vehicle to base all of my faith in.

    If you feel comfortable thats fine. But don’t tell me that I’m an imbecile because your GOD science is superior. Because science is a fallible god.

    Was it Bob Arum that said – “Yesterday I was lying, today I’m telling the truth” ?
    Sounds familiar? Sounds like science?

    Next time you feel a bit under the weather. Go to the hospital and ask them to bleed you the old scientific way.

    What science is today is based on whats available and can serve as evidence at THAT GIVEN TIME.

    If the evidence isn’t there then its not science.

    Thats stupid.

    gordi, I imagine that being that since all you believe is in scientific facts, that would imply that you have no theories of your own.

    You’re a lamer. Hang on to your crutches Owain, moe, larry, and curly.

    Clown.

    -R-

  1091. Science cannot explain God.

    Science will say man invented God.

    Is this what you belive gordi?

    Man invented God, man invented Allah, man invented Jesus Christ. There is no God as per science.

    There never was, there never will be a God.

    Man has evolved solely on this planet in this solar system and not only that there is no such thing as panspermia so this planet carried all os the nessesary elements to create the variety of life that has lived here from the start with water life then land life and dinosaurs andso many many many differents species that have lived here and still do.

    This little ball of water in the middle of nowhere came into being all by itself because for some reason after that big bang this piece of rock was endowed with everything nessesary to make it the way it is and the way it was.

    Thats interesting.

    I don’t agree, I don’t agree with the Bibles version either.

    But you see how stupid all of your beliefs sound when said?

    If you have another way of explaining please feel free.

    Tells us how this all started. Give a summary of it all like I just did but scientifically.

    You know whats spreading fear? This is the caption used to adverstised the History Channels episode on Nostradamus 2012.

    “Hundreds of different people.
    Thousands of miles apart.
    Thousands of years apart.
    All prophesy about the same date”.

    Thats on TV.

    Thats a much bigger media than this little Universe Today forum, which by the way expliots the 2012 topic to its fullest. Its used here in almost every thread as a lure so stop telling us we’re off subject. You haven’t said shit here. A couple of facts about earth quakes that you plagiarized form somewhere in the web.

    Let me ask you something that I find interesting. When does science say the next big one is going to hit California? Or when is a huge asteroid going to crash into earth?

    I ask because on THC they had several scientist say that it could be at any time.

    Many things could be at any time according to science.

    Maybe anytime is December 21st 2012. Maybe the ancients knew something back then that science is just begining to re-learn.

    Maybe you’ll act like a man and govern yourself accordingly.

    -R-

  1092. I look back at the shit you post gordi, and to be frank. I’m starting to think you’re serious. If this is the case then you should seek help. The scientific community has a field called Psychiatry. These are your kind of people.
    I mean, dude, “have no fear I’m up to it”?

    WTF??

    Do you change into your superman jammies when you write that shit?

    Get help man. Theres people that understand about “savior complex”.

    Its not terminal.

    Happy Suasage!!

    -R-

  1093. What I want to know is.

    WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WHEN JESUS CHRIST COMES DOWN IN HIS FLYING SAUCER FROM THE PLANET JUPITER WITH HIS 144,000 RIGHTEOUS SAINTS IN TOW !!

    Nice huh? Now thats deranged,

    -R-

  1094. Gordy. Says:
    January 7th, 2009 at 1:39 pm

    “so on is not in any way a mature argument or an adult-like point of view”.

    gordis words. An adult like point of view. Hmmmm. Lets see, stupid, imbecile, deranged, lunatics, demented, deluded.

    Hmmmm, an adult point of view.

    Is it me or is it him? I mean, do adults speak differently in australia? Maybe its me, maybe I don’t understand his culture. Maybe they educate them differently over there.

    Dude, you’re……………….A…………….Clown.
    Put on a happy face and get over yourself. You ain’t all that.

    An adult point of view, that was good, really it was.

    -R-

  1095. This is all on what you wan to be leave that’s going to happen on 2012. Humans have been doing this sort of things for billions of years and will billions of years into the future. Its what we do best and that is try to predict what is going to happen before that time arrives. But again as i said in the past that keep an open mind and view all theories from both sides or in this case all sides. I read them all but i am not going to change my life because of something i have no control of. If something negative happens so be it. That day will come and what is in are future will be written that day and until that day arrives there is nothing we can do to stop something we have no clue on what is going to happen.

  1096. Dear Gordy,
    It is the status quo, that repetative geological and other events e.g. asteroid collisions with Earth, have been, for me, absolutely and conclusively proven. If it is not possible to predict the hour an earthquake will take place…..its not due to a lack of knowlege so much as being in a position to track and observe the ever changing conditions that all contribute and culminate in an event.

    This too will be possible.
    This will however present mankind with a dilema. To be able to forewarn of hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanic activity etc…..all of which are a part of nature’s e.g culling of the old / sick / weak plant and animal life, especially when a species….has over populated the earth……..will result in further over population, eating itself out of house and home……and so a reduction of population will be achieved through food shortage, in spite of the intent to save lives. The difference is the increased number of lives that will be subjected to an increased duration of suffering.

    I assure you Gordy I have the utmost respect for scientists.
    Be well, Leah

  1097. Should said over populated species become voluntarily self regulating with regards to its breeding habits……keeping its numbers to a permanently maintainable total globally….in terms of resources and food without destroying the natural world……the aforementioned dilema will not materialise.

  1098. Before someone reminds us that this thread is about 2012 no geomagnetic reversal……Without attending to other subjects which may or may not be relevant, the thread would contain few posts, and further the content would be limited to “No it won’t happen” or “Yes it will”, as neither camp can have any proof. All that can be said in certainty is that it has not happened yet.

    Matter of interest, Leeches are used in Western medicine today…..specialist breeders in North Wales, UK. Likewise Maggots are also used. It might not have been understood how they benefited, but it was known that they were useful. Now they are at least known precisely how they help patients.

  1099. One thing is for certain, that SOMETHING caused everything to come into being. Science is doing its utmost to discover what this something is or was.
    E.g. the proposed experiments at the LHC…..Higgs Boson / God Particle etc etc.

    At some stage in the past, labels were attached, i.e the many names of God / Creator. Just because the Labels have since had various ideas and concepts attached to them, before the true nature has become known to all, re the Cause / instigator, that produced all that there is…..makes neither religions or science…..correct nor incorrect.

    The fact of the matter is that, both religions and science seek to understand the true nature of that which causes everything to come into being. They just have different methodology but the goal is the same. Science being the detached observer, and religion and philosophy being the introspective observer.

  1100. Owain,

    I see no battle or war….other than the ones being instigated and fueled by say Gordy, and yourself, having offered to keep attacking.

    Your goal is not of a constructive contributary nature, it is of a negative destructive nature. You see only duality, black and white……and nothing in between. Extremism.

    .

  1101. Libel, rudeness, tantrums…..all attention seeking devices, like spoilt, or could it be ignored people / children. Ones that feel, that unless they kick up a fuss, they will pass from existance without anyone ever knowing they had lived.

  1102. It was the character “Crocodile Dundee” that described mankind as being like fleas, arguing over who owned the dog.

    Just as no one owns even their own life….no one owns Earth, or knowlege. The temporary nature of life in this form, makes the whole concept of OWNERSHIP, ridiculous and beyond attainment. Life itself is a lease.

  1103. Gordy,

    So why is it that you label those that believe in God/Gods, lunatics….its irrelevant whether the belief is in alien type gods or an Ultimate creator / creational force.

    If you reserve the right to free will, opinion, belief and expression for yourself……to not grant the same to all others, but only to a select few of strictly your choosing and approval, makes you come accross as one that MIGHT even subscribe to eugenics.

    Naturally….all your posturing, could be a pretense…or nothing more than a game you like to play….to pass the hours of your life away.

  1104. Gordy,
    Each is free to glean what they are able, and each from a different perspective, when it comes to knowlege. If every bit of knowlege was perceived in an identical way by every single person……we’d be mental clones of eachother. Conversation or exchange, would become obsolete

  1105. Gordy,

    Is it OK with you that Stephen Hawking and Neil Turok, don’t put forth identical theories, or perceive in identical ways ?

  1106. Everything is what it is. Sadly a degree or few does not change the fundemental nature of a person. A pig’s ear is a pig’s ear no matter how many times its renamed or re-classified….thats why the saying…you can’t make a silk purse from a pig’s ear.

  1107. Dear Gordy,
    Could we try to agree on something, in pricipal. Many are put off from the sciences, simply because of the terminology and formulas used…..which before you bite my head off……in all honesty are for the most part necessary. The thought of having to read or write in full e.g. the speed of light,, would be off putting to me, but I understand calculus and formulae, which is off putting to others. So analogies and philosophy, do their best to explain the nature of things without the use of math, and formulas.

    Fair comment…..please add to it, and refine it.
    Be well, Leah

  1108. Ok. So just because a t.v programme broadcasts something about aliens building whatever you can’t explain makes it the truth does it? Idiot. I’ve said time and time again put these theories to some repeatable demonstrable test and if they pass then you can claim them to be true. If not go away and shut up.

  1109. If you want me to comment on the thread here it is. There will be no geomagnetic reversal in 2012. Just because it coincides with the end of the Mayan calendar is no reason to panic. Mr. O’Neil has explained it perfectly well and clearly. All will be well!!

  1110. Science will tell you that the big one will hit California but not when. I thought we’d been through this but never mind. You obviously have no appreciation of the complexities of the earth’s interior and how it works nor how primitive quake predicting is.
    Astronomers know the earth will be hit again by an huge asteroid but not when. Jeez, it’s only within the past 100 years we’ve know it happens at all. BUT you’re sort of conspiracy theorist/nutter can’t accept that all isn’t known therefore science can’t help. It really is difficult to explain to someone like you how things work. Either you are deliberately refusing to accept any explanations you read and hear or you’re just inherently stupid.

  1111. Ricochet Says:
    January 7th, 2009 at 9:32 pm
    What I want to know is.
    WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO WHEN JESUS CHRIST COMES DOWN IN HIS FLYING SAUCER FROM THE PLANET JUPITER WITH HIS 144,000 RIGHTEOUS SAINTS IN TOW !!
    Nice huh? Now thats deranged,

    Now Becky. Is this an attempt at humour on this bozos part? SO hard to tell. Perhaps for the literalists here you should flag up when you’re all being amusing.
    BYW, I do hope he’s being serious.

  1112. There ya go gordi, you’ve exhausted your input on this thread by telling us Ian is right and nothing will happen. End of subject.

    Dude, the fact that science says an earthquake will happen and an asteroid will hit earth but cannot tell us when means that it could happen tomorrow.

    You are in no position educationally to say that nothing will happen on 2012 knowing that there are impending catastrophes as predicted by science.

    I wasn’t saying that any of this is true because its on TV you lamer. I’m saying that the mass media has been escalating their fear programs over the last 20 years.

    I don’t have to prove anything here.This sin’t a court of law. Its a forum about what you yourelf classify a stupid subject. In fact I’m surprised that this forum with 2012 obviously in the mix has attracted you at all. But wait, you’ve admitted that its not the subject thats attracted you here. It the opportunity to use your derogatory name calling and to maintain some elevation to your superiority complex.

    You’re the idiot.

    Science is also influenced by religion. Look at how in the USA stem cell research hasn’t been allowed.

    Do you think that religion would allow science to declare that their god was an alien?

    Oh but wait, for me to say that it would imply a conspiracy and we all know conspiracies don’t exist right?

    You’re naive gordi. You believe that everything is crystal clear and can be explained away.

    I see you didn’t touch the subject of what you believe in terms of how it all started.

    Yea, I’m glad I took the liberty of posting for you what you and science say happened as to how we all got here.

    Had you lived in the 1300’s you would have been one of those guys that explained sicknesses as having to do with the bodys humours and you would have been in agreement with bleeding people.

    In the past science has made countless wrong conclusions to specific issues.

    You spoke of the laws of science. Laws can be applied to anything. There are life laws.

    How come when you take a mans woman he gets mad? Its a type of law. Laws are simply results of something. Like the laws, if it oges up it come back down. So if you take a mans woman he’ll probably fuck you up.

    There are biblical principals that are considered life laws.

    Many of these laws tend to change over time as understanding evolves.

    Maybe you should go google all of the shit science got wrong over millenia that was later corrected. Usually its impetons like you that stagnate science by scoffing at ideas.

    You seem to defend that status quo. Only whats popular and acceptible at the time.

    You don’t know if ancient astronauts came here just as I don’t know they didn’t. Theres a lack of data to make a final decision on this.

    But you have taken it upon yourself to judge these ideas against the science available at this time and declare that we are all stupid.

    You are on some superfuckinhero trip that thinks hes saving this forum from certain ideas that you don’t agree with.

    You’re a limited thinker gordi and an internet bully safe behind his keyboard.

    You need to get a life. Maybe take up rugby again.

    Your sense of humor is wanting also.

    The only laugh you get out of any of this is when you insult people. In fact you shout out to your butch friends for support.

    Dude….

    -R-

  1113. Gordi, this is so bad. I come in here and I talk about my ideas as does Leah, Paul, Amit, Becky, and many others. We do so at the risk of running into someone imaginatively challenged like yoyrself. We risk the derision because we dare.

    You on the other hand care what people think about you. I gave you the opportunity to explain god as does science and the reason you don’t accept this dare is because you will say that you don’t believe in a supreme being. You don’t believe in God or Christ or Allah or aliens or anything.

    You feel that if you were to the people here all of this you would fail acceptance. You would probably be attacked in the same manner that you attacked us.

    You like to place your bet after the race is over so you can pick he winner.

    That just makes you a loser.

    Tells us what you think about the god concept on earth dude.

    How did man adopt this concept?

    Where did it come from?

    Don’t be intimidated, I got your back. I aint afraid of no ghost.

    Tells us all about sciences explanation of the Deities.

    Tell us why its impossible for an ancient race of people to have knowledge that isn’t available today.

    Tell us what will happen 2012 when the earth enters an area that it hasn’t entered in 26,000 years.

    We await your wise imput your assholeous.

    -R-

  1114. No I don’t believe in god, allah, buddha or any supreme being. We arose naturally and as far as science, as opposed to fairy-tales, is concerned aliens did not hyridise/genetically alter or in any way influence us.
    Is that answer enough/ Please feel free to ridicule those beliefs if pleases you as it doesn’t impinge on my sensibilities at all. Criticism of my beliefs or even saying they’re crap is water off a duck’s back. So fire away you nitwit.

  1115. It has been understood for centuries how maggots aid recovery from badly infected wounds and gangrenous infections. It was only with the widespread introduction of antibiotics and patient revulsion that they fell out of favour in the western world. Their re-introduction is a consequence of a growing immunity to these drugs.
    By the way Gordy, if you feel the need to take a break from leading the attack just say so and one of us will step in for you. Hwyl!!

  1116. The forum is about discussing the fact that the ‘predicted’ geomag reversal coinciding with the end of the Mayan calendar is bogus. It’s not about bozos like you dragging in discredited theories about the evolution of mankind by aliens/megaliths built with alien technology and endless quotes from the bible. Get a grip you dag.

  1117. Ok, so if this forum is about geomagnetic reversal and 2012 and you already addressed that like 3 post ago then leave. Its over, you had your 2 cent.

    As for Owain choosing describing you as “leading the attack” just scientifically proved that you guys are here solely to attack.

    I know, I know, you are crusaders that go from forum to forum attacking the deranged lunatics.

    I don’t have to say anymore on this then as you’ve said it all.

    As far as to you – confession – that you don’t believe in god ,allah, christ, or any supreme being or the scriptures concludes with the now established fact that you are lacking in data and therefore crippled both scientifically and religiously.

    If you don’t believe that religion has had as much or more a part to play with mans survival then you’re a fool.

    Its like that Bruce Lee movie “Enter Th ragon” when he smacks his son in the head as he points upward and tells him ” Don’t concentrate on the finger, or you will miss all that heavenly glory”.

    Well gordi, it seems like you concentrated on the finger. I will now step back and let others tell you of how much you’ve missed by dismissing God or the gods from the equation.

    -R-

  1118. Owain, my man.

    I hope you at least have the balls when you insult me to use stronger language than your aussie butt buddy the mad scientist.

    How’s it feel to hold his…..Test tube for him?

    I’m sitting here trying to think about how I would come to a decision that there are no truths about deity stories.

    I can’t imagine it. I can’t imagine anyone having the arrogance to acquire maybe 50-60 years of experience on this earth studying whatever and arriving at the absolute opinion that all the religions stem from “fairy tales” without concrete evidence.

    Its absurd.

    You guys heard about the quake in indonesia that set off tsunami watches the other day? What about the one that hit afghanistan the next day?

    7’s and 6’s. I don’t believe the earths mantle can be understood as simplly as science puts it. My opinion is that its like chaos theory when it comes to that. Its like cracking an egg and predicting where the cracks are going to be.

    If science knew. They would evacuate wouldn’t they?

    Even if by a few years. Say they knew Cali was screwed in 2011. They’d get the people out no?

    But science don’t know shit does it?

    I can say the same thing. I can say, NYC is going to have an earthquake BEFORE the cali big one and I’d be just as correct because I’d be speculating just like science.

    Maybe I’m a scientist.

    Oh and by the way, stop calling me names like dag and shit. I don’t know what that is.

    I hope you don’t mind that I keep it American and just call you an asshole evrery now and then.

    The King is Dead,
    Long Live the King,

    -R-

  1119. War Leah?

    These guys cant fight. All they like to do is extent and and withdraw their…..Telescopes repeatedly in a quick manner.

    I’ll fight. Bring it baby!!

    They can bring their micrscopes and telescopes, I’ll just bring my bible.

    Have at it ladies. C’mon, I’ll fight alla ya’.

    Owain, Moe, Larry, Curly, Crocodile Dundee, bring the whole family!!

    This is as much fun as reading a grafic novel.

    It helps kill a dead half hour.

    Remeber, no kangaroo meat on sundays.

    -R-

  1120. No you idiot. Just because I personally don’t believe in a supreme creator doesn’t mean I don’t believe that people have found comfort in it or that it has in some cases helped man survive – far from it. Why should my non-belief preclude my discussing those who do?
    If I can’t discuss religion because I’m a non-believer then by the same token you should not be discussing science if you don’t believe in it q.v. your comment about earthquakes.
    Loved the Three Stooges reference. Very successful if I recall.

  1121. Btw, you too are very successful as the light relief on the departmental notice-boards. You have quite a following. Some are taking bets as to what your next ridiculous remark will be. The same goes for your acolytes as well.

  1122. Dear Gordy,
    I must admit that certain scientific facts, cannot as yet be accurately enough described by analogy or in philosphical terms….and speaking for myself alone, I prefer they remain in sciencentific terminology, until such time as an accurate analogy shows itself or occurs, to avoid misconcpetion. A bit less waffle would be a time saver, for me. Not complaining though.

    I’m not saying this to annoy you, just saying it the way it is. In Sitchin’s 12th Planet, his take on the creation of Earth is that of the recently revised version of theTheia theory / Giant Impact Hypothesis, being a glancing not head on collision. This he wrote that many years before the recent scientific revision.
    The parts re alien intervention, will be established one way or another soon, both by genetics and further study and understanding of the Summerian tab#ets. and other archeological artifacts, some yet to be found.
    In my experience as soon as anything can be coherantly, and accurately explained and understood clearly, in both literary and scientific format, there is liitle room left for it to be incorrect.
    It has been most pleasant to be able to chat….Thank you.
    Be well, Leah

  1123. You bring your bible buddy I’ll bring reason, medicine, proper enquiry. My science will cure your illnesses and lead you to the uplands bathed in the light. If you have a cold do you reach for your bible or for the cold remedy provided by science.
    This next answer should be good. I don’t think anyone in the faculty will scoop the pot on this one.

  1124. Yes Leah. Knowledge is for everyone and it’s free. The real pity is that some refuse to accept the knowledge.

  1125. Dear Erik,

    I too have NOT understood from the Mayan writings, or from present day Mayan’s accounts re 2012 and the end of their calendar, that it represented the end of the world, only that there would be change, and that there would be too many paths to choose from to know which path Man would choose. This to me represents a menu of choices. Some choices more appealing than others…..including undesirable choices.
    Be well, Leah

    As Ricochet reminded me some time ago, Prophecy is the Opium of the masses, and The Prophecy must be fulfilled. This is not so, when a prophecy is viewed as advice, wrather than as an unavoidable blueprint or plan.
    A parent warning their child of potential dangers, does so to forewarn the child……and does not do so as a prophecy that the parent feels must be, wants to come true. Quite the opposite.
    Prophecy can also be considered as having the fore sight, to see possibilities……to forewarn, and in so doing having provided input and opportunity for the recipient to change….if so desired.

    Oh what a tangled web is woven, when prophecy is used to terrorise and deceive.

  1126. gordilocks, I thought you said that all the stuff wew rite has no value at all. Now I’m a I’m used for entertainment purposes only, get it? We dont wanna say gambling here.

    This of course is todas science you’re referring to right? Not the eold science and we’re not waiting for tomorrws science right?

    Todays science, the one that re-classified pluto recently right?

    Science is so smart man!!! I bet pluto had you fooled too right?? I mean, I thought it was a planet too!!

    Maybe, maybe, maybe science will change its mind in a couple of years what do you say?

    Is that up on the departamental boards? What are the odds? Maybe, maybe,maybe you could put in a bet for me. I have paypal!!!

    Crap man, you think maybe someday science will say maybe earth isn’t a planet?

    Maybe they’ll say its an….Engine that was bought about by intelligebt design.

    Maybe right?

    Because we don’t know waht science will be tomorrow. Its like we have to wait for the next epidsode.

    Tell the truth though gordi. Did you think pluto was a planet? How did it make you feel when science changed that?

    You’re the idiot.

    The fight thing was a joke wasted on you. Sorry brah, I forget you have no sense of humor.

    Maybe, maybe, maybe others got it though.

    Laterz freak,

    -R-

  1127. Rico: You nimnull. Pluto didn’t have anyone fooled. It was reclassified after long debate by the IAU who are responsible for naming celestial bodies. I presume you have followed the debate and discovery of larger trans-plutonian bodies on the inner edge of the Kuiper Belt and realise that Pluto was not the largest body beyond Neptune. It therefore became a necessity to change it’s status.
    It was suggested with some degree of seriousness that Earth didn’t quite fulfil the criteria for planetary status as it hasn’t cleared out it’s orbit – the moon and the Aten swarm.
    BTW, I suggest you use your spell-checker or invest in a good dictionary.

  1128. LEAH. Of course there’s no problem with Hawking and Turok having different ideas and perceiving things differently but they both use scientific method to deduce answers. If they were to address the alien intervention ‘problem’ they would use rigourous scientific method.

  1129. No disagreement there Leah but the ‘simplification’ and analogy has to truthfully represent what it is simplifying. I will concede that on many occasions scientists get carried away with their explanations, start using scientific terminology and leave the non-specialist behind.

  1130. What perplexes me is how the Mayan calender, which has predicted many past celestial events before they occured with great accuracy, more than our current calenders even, ends its cycle on Dec. 21, 2012. Graphical depcitions of the I -Ching reveal a termination with the same patterns, with an end point. Cyclical.
    The mayans stated that a change, not necessarily an end, would occur with polar reversals, which I believe can take place in a matter of hours as well as years.
    Its the same story observed also by many other cultures around the world.

  1131. Mike Hock

    Ready for Gordy.

    And Owain too, since he said many posts ago he came out of the closet

  1132. Hey Friends!!!

    I can see people coming out of the closets.. In their own words.
    And, they have a backuip system as well, to “Lead the attack and carry it on all the time” .. As said by Owain here –
    ” By the way Gordy, if you feel the need to take a break from leading the attack just say so and one of us will step in for you. Hwyl!!”

    C’mon guys, is this the best you can do?? One can bet on Gody to take the coinversation adrift whenever we offer something in your own “Scientific” language.. Did you even read what i had posted about DNA and all?? Can you offer any reasonable explanation other than showing off your great compilation of insulting words which keeps grwing bigger???

  1133. Amit, it won’t matter because he only believes that man has fooled himself into religion, religion is good as far as he’s concerned but it comes from fantasy.

    I imagine that this disqualifies the bible as a historical reference and many other scriptures and writings.

    He’s a cripple, don’t bother.

    -R-

  1134. Yeah Rico , you are right… Normally, i dont bother.. But sometimes, their strategy irritates me…
    Bible is rightaway discarded as a figment of imagination…. Scientific facts are conveniently ignored…. Thoughts and Views are labelled as rantings!!
    How can a sane man argue with such people?? I’d rather talk to a Blocks of Concrete??

  1135. Paul,

    You say that “Evolution” could have provided for the extra 223 genes….. But how can you say that when there are so many glaring loopholes in teh Evolution Theory itself??

    It is good to remember that, in spite of all the efforts of all the scientific laboratories around the world working over many decades, they have not been able to produce so much as a single human hair.

    How much more difficult is it to produce an entire body consisting of some 100 trillion cells!

    Up to now, Darwinian evolutionists could try to counter their detractors with some possible explanations for the complexity of life. But now they have to face the information dilemma: How can meaningful, precise information be created by accident—by mutation and natural selection? None of these contain the mechanism of intelligence, a requirement for creating complex information such as that found in the genetic code.

    Evolution tells us that through chance mutations and natural selection, living things evolve. Yet to evolve means to gradually change certain aspects of some living thing until it becomes another type of creature, and this can only be done by changing the genetic information.

    So what do we find about the genetic code?

    The same basic quality of information exists in a humble bacteria or a plant as in a person. A bacterium has a shorter genetic code, but qualitatively it gives instructions as precisely and exquisitely as that of a human being. We find the same prerequisites of a language—alphabet, grammar and semantics—in simple bacteria and algae as in man.

    Each cell with genetic information, from bacteria to man, according to molecular biologist Michael Denton, consists of,

    “artificial languages and their decoding systems, memory banks for information storage and retrieval, elegant control systems regulating the automated assembly of parts and components, error fail-safe and proof-reading devices utilized for quality control, assembly processes involving the principle of prefabrication and modular construction… [and a] capacity not equaled in any of our most advanced machines, for it would be capable of replicating its entire structure within a matter of a few hours.”

    So how could the genetic information of bacteria gradually evolve into information for another type of being, when only one or a few minor mistakes in the millions of letters in that bacterium’s DNA can kill it?

    Again, evolutionists are uncharacteristically silent on the subject. They don’t even have a working hypothesis about it.

  1136. Paul,

    Another thing about Evolution which i would you to chew upon.
    Roughly 32 million years ago, a common ancestor of monkeys, apes, and Man appeared in Africa. Then about 16 million years later, Ramapithecus, a precursor of the Great Apes branched off the primate line, Proconsul. 11 million years later, about 5 million years ago, Australopithecus showed up with hominid aspects. Then around 4 million B.C.E., Homo erectus arrived to usher in the Old Stone Age. A gap appears from 1.5 million B.C.E. to 300,000 years ago, when there is little if any evidence of evolutionary-time-scale evolvement.

    Then abruptly, circa 300,000 to 200,000 years ago, without any evidence of gradual change, Neanderthal arrives on the scene. A mere 100,000 years later, Cro-Magnon arrives, with this ultimate version of Homo sapiens sapiens probably having nothing to do with Neanderthals (in fact, the two lines of Homo sapiens probably lived side by side without intermixing).

    Anthropologists are absolutely amazed at the modern species’ accelerated rate of evolvement. Both Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon appear much too quickly on any kind of evolutionary time scale. With tens of millions of years leading up to Homo erectus, there is simply no explanation for the abrupt and sudden appearance of neither Neanderthal nor Cro-Magnon Man. It’s a puzzle! The questions abound!

    How in the world could the invaders of 250,000 B.C.E. “outlive” the erectus they replaced? Where does a species find the antidote for aging, and as an offshoot of the same species, find a way to live much longer? Was someone monkeying around with the nucleic or mitochondrial DNA?

    What “new technologies, new ways of doing things” could have accounted for the invaders’ superiority. What does an advanced sapiens have over a good, old- fashioned erectus?

    How does one account for Leakey’s suggestion that “something happened about then”? What did happen then? And why? In a nut shell, how does one account for the sudden appearance of Neanderthals and Cro-Magnon Man? Were these two latter species the first party-crashers?

    Where in the world do you suppose they found the first fossils of Aegyptopithecus? Of Australopithecus?

    Would you or would you not believe the suggestion of ancient Sumerian texts that the sudden and very abrupt appearance of Neanderthals, Homo sapiens sapiens, and Cro-Magnon Man was due to a combined evolutionist-creationist event, equivalent to the direct intervention of God (or the gods) to directly influence the evolutionary process of man in some dramatic way?

  1137. Dear Paul,

    Hope you are well. No argument, just prefer not to be mis-quoted.
    I wrote “Re alien intervention, will be established ONE WAY OR ANOTHER soon, by genetics and further study of the Summerian tab#lets”. Please don’t take issue with me, because you left out ONE WAY OR ANOTHER. I’m well aware of the effects on DNA of radiation, both natural and induced, changing environment , chemicals etc.
    Evolutionary changes, instigated by relocation alone…..as has been recently shown using relocated reptiles……begins taking place immediately, and within a few years the relocated reptiles, appear to be a sub-species of the original prior to relocation. In terms of the aquisition of knowlege…..it is most deffinately aquired at an exponential rate. The more one has, the quicker one is able to aquire more.

    !2th Planet like Hartman, maintains the Asteroid belt came into being as a result of the Great Impact.
    If there The Great Impact Theory is correct, which seems more likey than not, then irrespective of names and labels, both then and now…….Marduk versus Planet X or Theia…..the essence is, there was an impact, the result of which was Earth, the Moon, and asteoid belt. That was then….its an historical account if one likes….but the bottom line reads, Marduk / Theia is no longer, so cannot revisit. The bombardment of 4 million years ago, and as per Raup and Muller, is a sign in itself as to the TRUE timing of events, Great Impact.
    If anything has been misunderstood by the experts translating the Summerian Tab#lets…..its the timing….being the Math. E.g. Accuracy cannot be achieved if the declining rate of Earth’s rotation is not taken into account when deciphering e.g. Summerian Tab#lets. Imagine what might be learnt if different fields of science, reasearch and study were to consciously and purposefully work together on the same projects, functioning as teams, instead of in separate departments, each of which maintains that only they are right. Its happening in a small way….that is what the masses are permitted to be aware of…..whilst the true team work takes place out of sight. Even for this, there is good reason.

    With regards to the various versions of the creational myth, whether Greek, Biblical or Summerian, etc….each is recorded in a context that the people and cultures of the day were able to identify with, perceive and understand.
    Hartman / science, and the terminology / language thereof, has thankfully been able to present the event in a format / context that the majority, if not all people can identify with, and understand. It is acedemic who gets it right, or what label is applied…..only the content is truly valuable and useful, not who claims ownership of the knowlege.

    This is still true today, although not so prevalent….we have the context of scientific terminology, analogy when possible, religious context, and cultural contexts……but we also have the format of film….so that what is difficult to convey in words, can be done so visually.

    Be well, Everyone.
    Leah

  1138. Dear Gordy,

    Re God etc…..quite so…..can’t go blaming God….real or otherwise…..for ones own actions….but it still goes on.
    Be well, Leah

  1139. Dear Becky,

    Re changing physical appearance…..changing conditions, food, types of physical work….but the ability to travel more and more, and the interbreeding, therefore mixing of gene pools, produces a more average appearance. This is proven tech.
    Be well, Leah

  1140. Dear Paul,

    Genuine question. Does Astronomy consider the Singularity…as per Big Bang….a Black Hole ?
    If not what category does Astronomy place the Singularity in ?

    Be well, Leah

  1141. Never said that religion was good said many had found it a comfort. That’s not the same.

  1142. And of course “a comfort” is bad, right buddy?
    Science may be considered a religion,
    that is comforting to know.

  1143. Leah: The problem I and most scientists have with the Sitchin 12th planet is that as proposed it doesn’t exist. Any solar system body that big travelling on what would have to be a highly erratic course would cause severe disruptions throughout the solar system. As it would necessarily spend most of its time in the Kuiper Belt it would disturb so many planetesimals/asteroids and possibly comets etc that the inner solar system would suffer a bombardment ona par with the Early Heavy Bombardment it suffered 4000 million years ago. We don’t see that.
    It is unfortunate that the name Theia, a Greek godess who I think supposedly gave birth to Selene the Moon, is the same as the giant impactor that created the moon and the earth. This is where confusion and deliberate manipulation of facts are mixed in with totally unproven theories/ideas.
    I have to take issue with you when you say that alien intervention re: human evolution will be resolved soon by closer study of both genetics and Sumerian tablets. Spontaneous mutation of genes happens all the time through external forces such as chemical, natural radioactivity, biological stress as well as mistakes in copying during cell division. The apparent leap from chimp to man is not at all suspicious or unnatural. The gap in in time can account for that. Untill we find alien DNA and compare it we can’t say one way or the other. Even then will those aliens be the ones that did the experimentation?
    I would just like to say that I believe in aliens, I believe the possiblity exists they MAY have come here in the past and they MAY POSSIBLY have had some influence. But until that idea can be confirmed beyond refute then it remains just that – an idea.

  1144. No. Comfort good [obviously] Religion bad, Very bad. Why? Because it takes peoples’ freedom of choice away and takes their responsibility from them. A very simplistic form is the old favourite, “God made me do it”, or “God spoke to me”. Do you deny this hasn’t occurred?

  1145. hi, gordy–hope you are well…not sure, but i think the old addage is “the devil made me do it”…and my God speaks to me every day…al beit through conscience or by nature…all that in which i live… my God is not restrictive in any way…nor, i am confined by any of His laws…therefore, i cannot conclude what God you know….

    this evolution thing makes me go “HUMMMMMM”…i like to think that we are about to “evolve” again…and that evolution is the crux of this whole 2012 debate…

    this is a very simple observation, but i am a “picture buff”…i especially love very old pictures…from back in the civil war, when they were cast on tin to all the most modern high-tech images we are able to produce…and the ways we are able to produce them…when i look at baby pictures of my grand parents and great-grand parents, i notice quite a change in our physical appearances over the past couple hundred years…we have grown taller, our body proportions “appear” to have changed, and our facial features have softened…our foreheads, jawbones, and ears are not quite so pronounced…

    ..so i can’t help but wonder what has caused this change in our appearance just over the past 200 years or so? was it the “technology” with which these pictures were taken (very basic and not so sophisticated, so as to distort?)…or have we really changed? newborn babies almost seem “angelic”…

    it was just a silly thought…sorry i cannot offer anything more substantial to this debate…

    to all, please be well…

  1146. I do not dismiss the bible as an historical reference. In fact I think I’ve said it is in parts a very good historical reference. But I don’t think anyone outside of the born again christians take it as the literal truth. Most religious ministers I know view the OT as a collection prophesies, stories, fables, teachings etc. The creation story is seen by most, though not all, as just that a way of explaining where we came from. It is not the truth and neither is it a corruption of some actual event i.e. we were born somewhere else and came here.[the garden of Eden being the perfect world we were born on and the earth the place Adam & Eve were cast into]. While NOT beyond the realms of possibility it is unlikely. However given scientific proof…….

  1147. this is just an afterthought–please help me out here, our scientists…we compare “old imagery” to new imagery to detect trends, changes, etc…i wonder how much of that old imagery was restricted by the technology of that time? are they, then, accurate comparisons?

  1148. The Yorkshire Ripper who terrorised the north of England 25-30 years ago used the defence that god had spoken to him and told him to murder the women who were prostitutes.

    The most plausible explanation as to why peoples appearence seems to have changed over the past 200 years or so is down to better nutrition and health care. You only have to look at suits of armour from the 17th century or try to walk around a ship from even Nelson’s time to see the change in height. Both incidentally the product of the scientific revolution in all areas. And it most certainly is an actual occurrence not an artifact of the technology used to take the pictures. It’s only recently we’ve had access to Photoshop etc. 🙂

  1149. I’d suggest one doesn’t even have to go to photo comparisons to note a change. Certainly from the early-mid 19th century the height and weight of a lot of the population of ceratin countries Europe, [US ?] were well documented. Just by looking at clothing from virtually any era in history will give you the height and from there I reckon it would be fairly easy to work out an average weight of the population.

  1150. Also: One doesn’t need to be a scientist to make these comparisons and consequent deductions.

  1151. paul–point well taken–i stand corrected…

    technology has also “softened” us…we do not do the hard manual labor our ancestors did 200 years ago…

  1152. the “old imagery” i was referring to in my last post was regarding “old imagery from space”, “old imagery of earth changes”…all the “old imagery” we use to compare 20 or 30 years ago to what we use now…we’ve come so far…are they accurate comparisons? not debating…just inquiring…

    …i know one does not need to be a scientist to see the difference in physical appearances…that was not the point, paul….are we still “evolving” in order to survive in whatever our environment dictates??? i am curious and trying to understand..please do not fault me for that.

  1153. Dear Just a Thought,

    Quite so….there is in the first instance only, for all people to be both tollerant and respectful of points of view that are not carbon copies of their own. This extends to and applies to beliefs, religious or otherwise.

    It is possible that the intollerance and disrespect is born out of some kind of fear…..that their point of view might get changed or influenced by those of others.

    Speaking for myself……there is no need for intollerance where open mindedness is practiced. Whenever I get new input that stacks up, it changes my point of view in varying degrees….as it has to do, otherwise I would have to say, I was practicing blind stubborness.
    Good to know you are about,
    Be well,
    Leah

  1154. Leah: RE the Giant Impact. Every theory regarding the formation of the solar system indicates that the asteroid belt has remained a loose agglomeration of rocks of varying size from the start. The proximity of Jupiter, and to a lesser extent Mars, meant that the overpowering gravitational pull wouldn’t allow those rocks, dust and gases to form a body bigger than Ceres. The debris resulting from the early earth and the impactor probably wouldn’t have attained escape velocity from the combined gravitational pull of them both to reach the present Belt area. In fact most of the debris barely achieved escape velocity as nearly all went into orbit around the earth and coalesced into the moon within weeks if not days. The very small rocks may well have fallen into the sun or out of the solar system altogether.
    The Great Impact shouldn’t be confused with the cometary bombardments which occurred in at least three phases from 4000 million years ago to around 3,300 million years ago or so. These impacts though immense ranged from the sizes of a house to possibly 10 times the size of Mt. Everest.

  1155. Becky. Yes we are still evolving but into what who knows? In fact it would be the height of hubris to even ask what as it doesn’t matter. With another 600 million years left before the earth becomes uninhabitable all trace of our works will have long disappeared. If we survive we will be unrecognisable in even 5-10 million years. Our successors beyond then could have evolved from another organism or if evolving from us would be as different from us as we are from Ardipithecus kadabba [5 million years ago] or Sivapithecus [10 million years ago]. Like other species that have inhabited the earth we will pass as though we have never been here. In many ways I find a great deal of comfort in that as we are not anything special in the cosmic scheme of things. Very special to each other and loved ones for sure but beyond that………

  1156. Re Hawking and Hertog…article in Nature.

    Surely it could be put….for the laymen of this world naturally….that All possibilities / histories existed in the beginning…. soon after the big bang…. and the one which most favoured the evolution of life survived.

    From a different perspective…. the history that was on the path of least resistance, in which life could evolve, survived….the other histories did not.

    Hertog says….”In effect, the present selects the past”.
    We are each where we are because of the exact , to the letter, path that lies behind us. To eliminate just even a word in the past, at any point in time, would produce subtle changes in history from that moment onwards.

  1157. Religion messed many people up. There are STILL religious wars raging today.

    But its just like science, even today we have pharmaceutical recalls because people have died.

    Neither science or religion are perfect, but they both serve a purpose.

    Let us never forget the existance of nuclear weapons. Thats credited to science.

    They both do damage. There were also those heavens gate zealots that killed themselves because they believed that some space ships were coming behind the Hale-Bopp comet and would take their soles or some dumb shit.

    Yeah, I know theres looneys out there. The Muslim suicide bombers, shit like that.

    But what I lean towards in terms of my beliefs is ancient atronauts.

    Paul, let me ask you something, you keep saying that if Nibiru was out there it would cause all kinds of problems, we’d even be feeling them now.

    I’m not too keen on these things so maybe you can explain.

    Bear with me, supposedly nibiru is a part of this solar system same as mars or venus and the rest. The only difference is that it follows a long eliptical orbit. Thats how its described. Now we know that astronmers mentioned something before about a missing body in our solar system then they supposely explained it.

    But if nibiru is actually part of this solar system why do you think it would cause more havoc than has already been attributed to it on previous passes?

    -R-

  1158. Everything chooses the path of least resistance……not just electricity…..that is except for some humans.

  1159. Gordy Says:
    January 9th, 2009 at 5:54 am
    “God made me do it”, Do you deny this hasn’t occurred?
    No,
    proven nearly every day with some religion driven cause… causing harm because their “God”… and so it will always be with people who are so sure they are right they are intollerant of any other point of veiw.

  1160. You know, theres an old saying thats nobody really uses anymore but I think it still applys.

    There are no atheist in a fox hole.

    People say the don’t believe in god but thats because we live the western world where everyone has a comfort zone.
    People dont expect to become victims.

    I’ve seen things and I’ve experienced things that let me tell you. If you knew for a fact that in 3 minutes you would be killed….Its incredible how fast you remember the “Our Father”.

    Its nice to think you have a choice, real nice, Its just that some people live confued.

    -R-

  1161. Paul, I was asking. Is it possible that a so-called nibiru with an extended eliptical orbit in our solar system would enter and reaches its perigree with earth causes minimal damage being that the orbit was established long ago making it a natural satellite of our solar system.

    I ask because I don’t much about this and you made a point saying that a planet or whatever that size would cause major disruptions.

    In the sumerian story as makes an approach it destabilizes the ice over antartica and causes the ice shelf to fall into the ocean setting off that so-called biblical deluge (thats a short version).

    The whole legend of nibiru is that it was granted its own tablet of destinies or its own orbital eliptical path in our solar system by the other planets due to its defeating tiamat.

    Thats the legend.

    This was all supposedly leading to the end of the last ice age, around 13,000 BC.

    They say that ice lasted between 75,000 BC and 13,000 BC.

    What do you think? Can this legend have any probability of being correct?

    I not asking if you believe it or if its even probable, I’m asking is it possible?

    -R-

  1162. Marduk in the creation account of the Summerians is said to have impacted Tiamat, end result Earth and the Moon…Kingu. Comparable to the Great Impact theory.

    The scientists have it, but so do the Tab#lets, except for dating perhaps…..too much evidence which keeps building with time, for the Great Impact theory and its dating, to be completely wrong. So irrespective of the names allotted, Marduk or Theia, it is no longer. So the planet that collided with Earth no longer exists, as such.
    Is Niburu a companion star to our own Sun, possibly with planets of its own, or is it an additional planet in in the outer regions of our system ? For me there’s a problem re its so called 3,600 year orbit. If it does pass Earth every 3,600 years, it does not cause extinction level events……or massive catastrophe……unless evidence to this effect has not been found yet….or has, and is being witheld. Just like the orbital path of Earth, and its distance from the sun, varies over longer periods of time, so too could Niburu’s if it exists….so it wouldn’t necessarily pass Earth at close proximity, every time.

    In Times when noted scientists are putting forward theories, such as The Speed of Light is not a constant, and that its rate was greater just after the Big Bang than now, coupled with even the little is already known about Dark Matter and Energy….everyone will have to re-address the Math in other theories, not to mention e.g. Summerian Tab#ets.

    Did different ancient civilisations, or subsequent generations give additional names to the same planet that collided with Earth ?
    Sitchin did not translate the Summerian Tab#lets alone…..nor interpret their meaning / sentiment alone…..very notable scientst’s findings / works were used to put together 12th Planet.

  1163. Dear Gordy,

    Same here….If they come they come….if not…thats ok too. Same for if they exist or are pure invention. I believe in studying everything….to see how it relates and get additional perspectives.

    My bottom line is…..that I can only deal with something…..I can’t deal with nothing.

    I like the world the way it is……love all life….just would like it better if the warring factions /types would get over themselves, so we can all get down to cleaning up the shit that we’ve produced, and apply our efforts to learning. My vision of Utpopia is down to Earth, workable and attainable…..if it weren’t for bad attitude on the part of what is a small percentage of people in the world.
    Be well, Leah

  1164. paul–thank you for your kind
    acknowledgement yesterday…MUCHLY appreciated…

    nothing else to add…just reading and digesting…

    thanks to all for everything…
    please be well…

  1165. Leah: Taking an extreme stance against the kind of ‘theories’ that won’t allow themselves to analysed or that have absolutely no basis in fact is not a display of fear from or of them.
    Should alien intervention whether as ‘originators’ of humans or builders of megaliths etc be proven then fine. I will accept that and take it on board as part of the body of knowledge, scientific, cultural and historical. No problem, no problem at all.

  1166. Dear Paul, and any other Astronomers here,

    Re the Mysterious Roar from far away Space, as per short article on Space.com…..
    and the ARCADE device…….
    It is not clear as written, if ARCADE detected the roar from just a certain area, or from everywhere in space. Would you please be so kind as to comment, if you have further input.
    Be well, Leah

  1167. In the age of satellite communication, one would think that News channels reporting on world events, (not limited to local news) are not limited to reporting on a few news items a day, which are repeated over and over, and over…………………giving the impression that aside from e.g. now, the Gaza situation……..everything is for the most part hunky dory in the world.

    A quick daily look at the news items even on web sites like http://www.standeyo.com alerts one to just how much is not reported on. What’s equally important to what IS reported on…..always…..is what is NOT being reported on.

  1168. “Your comment is awaiting moderation”
    is visible to me next to and re my las post 9:17 am 11th Jan 2009.

    Is the sentiment and / or the words to be changed……by some machine or person, to give others a different immpression from the one intended. If so that would be tantamount to the postman re-writing letters before delivering them.

  1169. gordy–it is with GREAT hesitation that i ask you this–PLEASE understand i am not debating—just inquiring…

    “taking an extreme stance”—why so “extreme”?

    PLEASE–no bad intentions, here…no ulterior motives…just curious…

    thank you…and be well

  1170. Dear Just a thought,

    Yeah it would be if it weren’t for the fact we’d never know….cos we don’t write by hand anymore….its all type written on computers.

    Be well, Leah

    .

  1171. Leah,

    “postman re-writing letters before delivering them”

    Sounds almost like contractual grounds for future litigation. :-0

  1172. And not hand written they maintain Plausible deniability.

    As far as wishes for 2012,
    “You may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one”
    true care one for another.

  1173. Paul,

    I’m surprised that you admitted as much as a “May be Possible” scenario about Alien Intervention…
    But i’m still awaiting a reasonable reply from your side about my posts about DNA and evolution…… You just said that the jump from Chimp to Man is not surprising.. But its not just a case of Chimp to Man, there are so many other implications(Which i mentioned) that pose questions…

  1174. Dear Paul,

    Thanks for replying re Arcade….just wondered if it was detectable in all directions or not . We’ll see.

    Ditto re singularity.
    Be well, Leah

  1175. I like to think that the case for all life having evolved on earth from the primitive uni-cellular organisms found 3.8-4.0 thousand million years ago ahs been all but proved. The fact that all life shares parctically the same genes should be overwhelming proof. Did you know that humans share something like 25-30% of hteir genes wiith an oak tree? I sometimes think that people don’t have any real conception of the timescales involved when discussing evolution. The 2 million year gap between man and chimps splitting from their common ancestor is a long time. Two million years ago from now takes us back to the onset of the present Ice Age. Two million before that is in the era of the Australopithicenes. Whether one subscribes to a gradual or the swift stop-start theory of evolution there is time enough to account for life to have developed here. Of course there are huge gaps in the fossil record but you have to remember that the SCIENTIFIC analysis of the finds is a very new science and there needs to be more finds especially from the hominid/early hominid part of our history. But that gap will not be filled with evidence of alien intervention.

  1176. The ARCADE detection could be something or nothing. As it’s new we have to wait and see. Take more measurements. If it’s repeated and comes from all dierections then it could be cosmological in origin [i.e. from the far ends of the universe]; we need to know if it comes from just one direction and of course it may never be seen again. Or it could be an inboard glitch. Before we all start thinking it’s someone shouting out to us remember Jocelyn Bell and Anthony Huish thought the clicks from pulsars could be aliens from outer space and the astronomers at Greenbank [?] thought they’d discovered an alien civilisation and annotated the print out the a “Wow”. That was never repeated.

  1177. Comment pending does NOT mean someone is tampering with the contents. It usually means the server is busy. But hey, where would this strand be without suspicion, paranoia and a good old conspiracy??

  1178. Someone posted that there are no atheists in a fox hole. What sweeping generalisation. Why can’t you accept that some of us just don’t believe in a supernatural creator. It’s not a case of once beliving and then rejecting because of some personal crisis but a case of never having believed. Not all of us are afraid of the ultimate dark and want a father comforter.

  1179. Leah: Regarding the singularity as black hole. If you’re referring to the beginning of the universe as far as I’m aware theorists don’t see the universe emerging from a blackhole-type singularity. Current theories point to the universe spontaneously appearing everywhere, as it were, rather than erupting from a tiny hole. I think we have this notion of time, space, matter and energy spewing as from a hose – an explosion form the idea that if we run the history of the universe back 13.85 billiopn years we would see it concentrating and attaining infinite density and temperature before disappearing down a cosmic plug-hole. Therefore run it forward and it shoots out of the plug-hole. A problem of perception always occurs when trying to find everyday analogies for complex/complicated ideas. Ditto the effects of gravity and the rubber sheet. Someone asked me about Planet X moving through the solar system and disrrupting everything. I’ll try to answer that later today.
    I’m rather busy preapring a paper and report but bear with me.

  1180. Amit: You really need to quiz an evolutionary biologist about the DNA question. My knowledge of it is sketchy and my interest in hominid evolution is a side interest having studied it at uni as a secondary subject. I have kept dipping in and out since. My main subjects are astronomy and geology. But I will try to answer what and where I can. If I know I’ll present arguments, where I don’t know I’ll say I don’t know.

  1181. Paul,

    Thanks for your indulgence….
    Regarding your question – “Did you know that humans share something like 25-30% of hteir genes wiith an oak tree? ”
    Yes i know and i know that we share more than 90% of our genes with Chimps…….But thats the question buddy!! Why dont you see present day chimps evolving into humans?? Why dont they discover fire and stone weapons and tools?Why dont Oak trees evolve and start walking around? Why Humans?? Why? What makes us different? Those 223 genes mate, that cannot be traced as per evolution and the only explanation for their presence is manipulation by intelligent beings…
    Evolutionary Biologists dont have any answers….

  1182. Rico,

    How can anyone say that Nibiru has not influenced our solar system?
    Doesn’t the Kuiper Cliff answer this question?

  1183. The ancient tale of Nibiru’s Celestial Battle is actually scientifically sophisticated, and current advances in astronomy have recently corroborated certain aspects of the Sumerian cosmogony, among them the following:

    • The March 16, 1999 announcement by NASA at the 30th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston of the theory of the origin of Earth’s Moon as a catastrophic collision with a “Mars-size planet.”

    • Hubble’s recent discovery of 18 (at last count) stars, and numerous Jupiter-size planets (last count 9) with highly elliptical and retrograde (counterclockwise) orbits. Such orbits are now understood to be quite the norm in nearby solar systems, although they are considered peculiar in our own.

    • The 1994 announcement by NASA of a one-mile wide moon orbiting the 33-mile wide asteroid Ida, which follows the expectation that if a planetary body in this solar system exploded (or collided), the debris will be gravitationally bound in orbits around a primary body.

    • The discovery of water, atmosphere and perhaps previous life on Mars, the Moon and Europa.

    • Why there is a strange gravitational “pull” on Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, which indicates there is another body of significant size beyond it.

    Nibiru – Myth or Fact?

  1184. Niburu. Myth.
    AMIT said:• The March 16, 1999 announcement by NASA at the 30th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston of the theory of the origin of Earth’s Moon as a catastrophic collision with a “Mars-size planet.” What has an event 4 billion years ago got to do with a religious legend from 2500 years ago. If we’ve only recently worked out that a collision happened how did a Bronze Age civilisation work it out? Don’t say aliens told them.
    Retrograde motions of large bodies soon decay or the bodies are ejected from the system. The systems you mention are all young ones typically a million years or so old. Prograde and retrograde orbits are indeed the norm in such young systems but not mature ones.There are no large bodies in a stable, retropgrade orbit in our solar system. The largest is Triton the major satellite of Neptune and that is slowly decaying and will eventually crash into its primary – roughly a billion years.

    AMIT says [The discovery of water, atmosphere and perhaps previous life on Mars, the Moon and Europa.] Perhaps you can tell me where it has been reported that life has perhaps been discovered on any of theses bodies. Water yes, life NO.

    The Kuiper Cliff is not eveidence of a large body in that area and certainly not one in a highly inclined orbit. I suggest you do some reading of astronomical books or check out Nature or a more technical journal. As however any technical explanation is likely to wipe out your foolish ideas you either won’t look or will reject it.

  1185. Gordy,

    Your explanations appear as foolish to me as mine appear to you….
    The fact is that ancients knew a hell lot more about the Universe than we do! It is for you guys to wonder who told them….. Because i am not going to push the Anunnaki Theory down your throat if you dont want to believe it…

    And as for Kuiper Cliff, perhaps you could throw some light on its existence through your much superior astronomical knowledge? Dont your astronomical books give you any valid reason for Kuiper Cliff?

    And its okay if you call it a legend, but atleast try to stay with the correct timeline! 2500 only??Oh Boy, you are more ignorant than i thought earlier!

  1186. Just because something has not yet been detected e.g. in space, or discovered e.g. understanding of anything, does not mean it doesn’t exist.

    NEVER SAY NEVER.

    How is it possible for astronomy to state what does NOT exist ? Telescopes are for looking, to see what can be detected.
    What is disturbing is that some make statements e.g. there are probably 7000 asteroids which have yet to be discovered.

    How does one quantify what has not been detected yet……….an acurate statement would be to state the number detected to date and add, there is an unknown further number of asteroids, yet to be detected.

    It is habitual on the part of some to try and quantify even the unknown. Its saying that you know what you don’t know ……yet.

    I’d asked previously…….If space probes are only just leaving the solar system……and non have travelled further to date…….the images e.g. on TV of the Milky Way are CGI, or images of another galaxy, but they are not accurate pictures in fact of the Milky way.

    Unless……….space probes have travelled a great distance from the Milky Way, and been able to send images back to Earth.

    Can’t have it all ways……or have probes been sent into space much earlier than the public was told ? There are shorter paths to leaving the Milky Way, than to travel only in the plane of our solar system, or the plane of the Milky Way itself.

    Gordy, before you jump down my throat, ask yourself a question……..can you truly be certain, 100%, that you know what I do or don’t know.

  1187. Amit: Compared to us ‘The Ancients’ knew nothing about the universe. They knew about the motions of the planets and rising of certain constellations but as to the origin, structure and practically everything else – nothing. And it ceratinly is NOT a fact. You’re as barking mad as the other lunatics here. Go away and bother your local religious leader.
    Annunki theory. How dare you call it a theory.
    Theories can be demonstrated. What you’re babbling about is a legend you blockhead.
    As for getting the timeline wrong I hit the wrong key in my fury at your stupidity.
    Anyway nice to see you back as it gives us someone other than Rico to have a pop at.. Perhaps your rantings will find their way to the departmental noticeboard for us to laugh at. Keep ’em coming you crazy gallah.

  1188. Gordy,

    I can only laugh at your comments!!

    You are so loud in boasting about your ignorance that its laughable..

    Do care to put your posts along with mine in your departmental noticeboards and then see whose posts evict the most laughs!!
    But perhaps, you are surrounded with more Shitheads like you..

    And before you cry hoarse telling me to go to the local religious leader, know that i am an “Atheist”. I call myself an Atheist because i know your definition of Religion and God, to which i do not subscribe.

    And tell me , why are you so prone to fury?? Besides the keyboard,I hope you dont vent your anger on your family!!! I can picture you tearing your hair out and yelling at your family and throwing things at them in your mad fury..
    Learn to control your anger buddy, its bad for you!! But how would you know that, because it requires a lot of wisdom to know whats good for you, and living in a closet doesn’t help either!

    By the way, i am still awaiting your comments about Kuiper Cliff!! Oh i think i know, you forgot all about that in your mad rage…. in having a “pop” at me! I know you really enjoy abusing people on the net, Rico was right! You are a Ninny in reality.. Gordilocks!! Look there is a rat beneath your desk, go , go climb on the table and cower there!!!

  1189. gordy, again i ask you–why so extreme???

    it is rather frightening that you derive some perverse pleasure out of being so hurtful mean-spirited…your INTENT is to do harm…

    you can take as many cheap “pot-shots” as you wish…you cannot kill these messengers…i envision you holding a “fly swatter” …swatting madly and ranting incoherently at all the little pests buzzing around you…now that’s funny!!!!!

    BUZZ–BUZZ!!!

  1190. AMIT: You are in fact quite privileged to ‘see’ my fury as I am usually cool, clam and collected. At least you have one thing in your favour being an atheist so we have that in common besides breathing oxygen. You should know that your fame, like that of bouncing-off- his-walls Ricochet, has gone well beyond this department. English, psychology etc have all heard of your foam-flecked ramblings about unproven alien intervention. The history people shake their heads and wonder how their subject can have hijacked and subverted in such a tragic way. But then there have always been the lunatics to whom the ‘gods’ speak and aliens abduct. I’m really surprised we haven’t had someone called Bubba from Tennessee contributing here. Still time I suppose.
    As to the Kuiper Cliff. It is possible that there is a pluto-sized object that has cleared its orbit. This does not mean that it is your planet X/Niburu as it would be in a stable, long period orbit [on the order of thousands even tens of thousands of years]. However whether the cliff is real or not is open to debate. If I recall the early ideas about the edge of the Belt they proposed that the number of bodies would increase. However when actual observations revealed there to little or nothing at the distance [50 astronomical units +] it rang ‘alarm bells’. As it was totally unexpected a cause is not yet known. Research has shown that no bodies larger than about 100-200km have been seen so the ’gap’ does appear to be a real rather than what is called observational bias. Possible explanations include that at such a distance the material left over from the formation of the inner part of the system [sun to Kuiper Belt Objects or KBO’s] and the Oort Cloud was too small, dispersed to form large bodies. There is also something called resonances which can lock orbiting bodies together and sweep whole areas clear of debris and small bodies. [Neptune and Pluto are locked in a 2:3 resonance – two orbits to three which will stop them approaching and colliding.] I believe that a guy called Lykawa has proposed a Mars-sized planet orbits in the gap. But again that would NOT be Niburu as it is in a stable orbit.
    Btw, I am not abusing people on the net. What I and the others are doing, or at least trying to do, is show you that the ideas you seem to enjoy perpetuating are at best unproven and at worst lies, perverted science, discredited science and ideas.
    You may also wish to note that at NO time have I or any of the other scientists resorted to using offensive four letter words. We do know them of course but prefer to save them for therugby pitch or the pub. As with Rico you have a severe case of boing-boing.

  1191. I have no wish to kill the messengers at all. I have said anyone is entitled to their views and will defend their right to hold and shout them from the highest hill. However, if they are ideas and notions that so flagrantly fly in the face of scientific theory, scientific analysis and what is provable then they deserve to be challenged. Indeed they must be challenged. Should they come through the analysis, as other theories do, then fine. Otherwise keep them to the sites that deal with such arrant nonsense.

  1192. My intent is not to harm as you put it. Yes the idiots are something of an irritation especially if they fail to understand how the scientific method works. Merely proclaiming that a legend is true or that aliens did it is not going to make it true.

  1193. Amit: I see you fail to comment on the ‘life on Mars, Moon & Europa’ explanation ditto the Kuiper Cliff or anything else the scientists put up. You have to keep up your side of the bargin. Ask a question, receive an answer, comment on answer. You may not like the ‘abuse’ hurled at you but ignore that and respond to the answer.

  1194. Freddie55 Says:
    January 13th, 2009 at 9:21 am
    Amit: I see you fail to comment on the ‘life on Mars, Moon & Europa’ explanation ditto the Kuiper Cliff or anything else the scientists put up. You have to keep up your side of the bargin. Ask a question, receive an answer, comment on answer. You may not like the ‘abuse’ hurled at you but ignore that and respond to the answer.

    Freddie, my man… What are you a referree? I don’t see you posting anything, looks like you’re trying to admin the thread dude.

    Theres no side of the bargian here. You post what the hell you like. You don’t have to prove shit here. Its a dialogue. If your arrogant wannabe scientist pals can come in here and call us names then we can do what the hell we want also. Now as opposed to playing ref, write something about the subject matter or just get outta the way.

    You miss me gordi?

    -R-

  1195. Freddie55,

    What makes you think thaty i will conveneintly ignore the abuse and carry on with answers and explanations??
    Have you seen what Gordy does here? The moment he saw me speculating on a relatively weak theory, he pounced upon me with his fangs bared! But where was he when i was posting about DNA and Evolution?
    He derives his pleasure from belittling others here and calling them names. If thats what he wants , thats what he will get!! There is no point arguing with him……
    And if you had read my omment carefully, i said “Perhaps” past life……. But you guys (With the exception of Paul) pick and choose from the post at your convenience and blast off!
    You said “Ask a question, receive an answer”.. Go back on the thread and tell me how many of my questions have been answered here?? Especially by Gordi….

  1196. Hey Rico,

    Gordi must be missing you terribly…. But i have tried to lessen his pain… He is unable to digest his food without having a mouthful from you…
    I could only administer a small dose to keep him going till you were back…

  1197. Gordi,

    You dont need to use 4 letter words to abuse someone…. And you yourself are the best example of that!
    Perhaps, you play/watch too much of rugby, it has nunbed your mind… And you always think in term of Rugby.. Pull him there! Tackle him down! Shove one here and Push one there! You feel that everyone is out there to attack you personally!
    You are waiting for a Bubba to come from Tennessee?? Its not too far fetched, when we have self appointed “Crusaders” here, Bubbas wont be far behind.. There is already a Freddie Kruger in your ranks!

  1198. As to the subject of non-response;
    still waiting to read from where my happy little fellas have met me and can be so sure of themselves as to proclaim me to be….

    And I don’t care*#%^+=

  1199. Rico: Why on earth do you think I’m trying to referee the thread as you put it? I was merely asking a question.
    The ‘wannabe scientists’ as you call them aren’t mine. I’ve just found this and have spent my time reading through the posts and I don’t expect to receive the comments you have made, “Now as opposed to playing ref, write something about the subject or get outta the way”.
    Thank you for the welcome. I’ll read your posts and comment on them.

  1200. A Freddy Kruger? You mean someone who has no fashion sense then.
    If you have to resort to invoking fictional characters then you lost the argument. Rico used the Partridge Family or somesuch to have a pop at Paul a couple of months ago and he lost the plot ages ago. But I see a trend here. You both believe in fictional characters – Enlil, the Annunaki, Gilgamesh etc. so invoking Kruger etc fits in very well. That will definitely make the departments laugh. Anymore?

  1201. There was a time, back when Barry John and Gareth Edwards were international caps, when ther was a saying, “Football was a gentleman’s game, played by thugs” and “Rugby was a thugs game played by gentleman”.

    There is posturing by those that fear having to change their perspective and understanding of life and everything, in the event of new discoveries and incoming info, which in the very least are able to cast doubt over presently held beliefs, scientific and otherwise, in the first instance, and may further prove past theories / beliefs as being incorrect.

    The hypochracy is, that the ones posturing don’t mind so long as their perspectives, are changed by the theories / findings of those elite PHD’s that they have dubbed as acceptable to them, to the exclusion of all others which are considered unacceptable.

    Knowlege is everywhere, and is always available to everyone. It doesn’t reside exclusively in buildings call Universities, just as e.g. God does not reside exclusively in buildings of worship.

    There is a huge difference between being able to really think for oneself, and assuming that everything one has been taught is absolute truth and fact, which is not first hand info or gained through self discovery…. hand me downs according to agenda.
    What one is able to see from just one perspective, is not a complete picture, so cannot be assumed to be correct , and all that can be known about any one thing.

  1202. Dear Gordy,

    We progress with meaningful exchange.
    Thank you for your kind reply.

    Firstly, extrapolation….an assumption based on information to date. Statistics….assumption based on sampling.
    “Extrapolating what we CAN”…..have some but not all info.
    If the pictures of the Milky Way are not CGI, by what means / process were the extrapolated pieces of info compiled to make a complete representation of the Milky Way ?
    Not yet having a complete image from beyond the Milky Way…..e.g. sent back from a probe…….and the extrapolations being incomplete…..as all of the Milky Way has not yet been scanned and mapped in its entirity ,
    by what means or method are the gaps in the extrapolated info filled in to create a complete image to show e.g. on TV or in print ?
    Statistically speaking, based on extrapolated info to date……..is like saying “The odds are that………..”. Its OK, we can all only deal with what we have. That is until we aquire more info, then we change perspective accordingly.

    Be well,
    Leah

  1203. Gordi,

    You are too dumb to understand and realise what was said and in what context…
    Dont bother… I can understand…
    Its a handicap that you have to live with, i can only pity you…
    BTW, are you the department jester? Your primarily task seems to be making them laugh! What other things do you do to make them laugh??

  1204. No I’m not the jester. It just thought I’d bring a little light relief to hard working colleagues by showing them how foolish notions persist. However I do raise a laugh by balancing a ping pong ball on my nose and singing ‘Ace Of Spades’ at xmas parties
    Back on the subject of the thread have you considered the explanations of the Kuiper Cliff etc?

  1205. Amit: You ask how many of your questions have been answered. It looks as though quite a few actually. I have the impression that the scientists are attacking you and your friends because as they see it you’re presenting ideas as fact that cannot be proved. It’s is the job of scientists to probe and to ask for answers. Agreed?
    As for the name calling surely rising above it is the answer to THAT.

  1206. Leah says: I’d asked previously…….If space probes are only just leaving the solar system……and non have travelled further to date…….the images e.g. on TV of the Milky Way are CGI, or images of another galaxy, but they are not accurate pictures in fact of the Milky way.
    Are you seriously suggesting that the the images we see are CGI? I’m astounded you can even think this. Why do you think they are not accurate pictures of the MW? Certainly we cannot see th efar side of the galaxy but by extrapolating what we CAN see and by comparing our galaxy with similar ones we observe face on it is entitrely acceptable to say what the MW looks like.
    For sure no probes have left the solar system yet and none will even reach another star let alone leave the galaxy [they haven’t the momentum to do so]. The info they send back are measurements of stellar winds, magnetic fields as well as interstellar/inter-galactic gamma/X/ultra violet rays and light. The images they have sent are of the outer planets and in one memorable case a picture of most of the inner planets from the orbit of Neptune.
    Even if probes were to travel ‘upwards’ or ‘downwards’ out of the solar system rather than out along the plane of the S/S it would still take an enormous time to move away and into the main body of the MW as it were.
    At a statistical level it is possible to determine how many asteroids/comets there are of a given size an dhow many, on average, will enter the inner S/S but it is very complicated and beyond my grasp. You will be able to find a web-site that can perhaps explain it in easy terms. If you do let me know so I can view it.

    No, of course I can’t be 100% certain what you know or don’t know.

  1207. Dear Amit,

    The path you are on is good……if you feel it is good for you. There is a good saying re Holding your own council……hold your own council my friend.
    There is no rule re all having to find and travel the same path…….its the realisation and destination that are the same.
    Be well, Leah

  1208. Freddy,

    I dont mind the answers at all…
    But you may have observed that there is a marked difference in the way Paul answers questions and the way Gordi and others do that…
    Its beyond human nature to tolerate the rubbish spewed by Gordi, and its only natural to pay him in the same currency as he does…
    And as for provable or unprovable theories… being supported by Elite group of PhD flaunting scientists doesn’t mean that they are proved beyond doubt.. And when a debate consists of unproved theories at both ends, no side has the right to attack the other so strongly…
    While we are only offering our thoughts and speculations based on what we have read and learned, Gordi and his brady bunch are over aggressive in their replies..

  1209. Gordi,

    Remember the times when the notion that “Earth is not the centre of the universe” was considered foolish? People were burned for that…
    Its only a matter of time before old knowledge is replaced by new…. What appears foolish or improbable now will become a stark reality and stare you in the face.. Then where will you hide your face?

  1210. At no time have I, and as far as I can see, nobody else has flaunted their qualifications here as a way of putting others down. So don’t try playing that card.

  1211. Dear Steve F,

    Welcome. Please don’t misunderstand.
    I’ll rephrase. Due to apparently NOT yet having total and complete info extrapolated by telescopes and space probes….re the Milky Way….with which to create an accurate picture….having apparently not yet scanned the Milky Way 100%……there are some gaps which are therefore filled in by…..?

    Now…its possible that the pictures are !00% accurate……but folk can’t have it both ways….telling the public we have only aquired X% info re the Milky Way…….and in the next breath maintain that the images are 100% accurate……which intimates being much farther ahead with research and having complete knowlege at least about some things e.g. the Milky Way.

    It was an observation and question on my part…….as to which is true…..not a statement.
    Please remember you are free to believe as you wish. I appologise if I caused you sadness, it is never my intention.
    Be well, Leah

  1212. Yes old knowledge is often replaced by new but not if that old knowledge is sound. The knowledge you are expounding is unproven and probably unprovable. Therefore it is highly unlikely it will become part of the body of wisdom. Should your ideas regarding aliens interfening in human development are proven beyond reasonable doubt then I too will accept and embrace it. I certainly won’t hide my face because something I don’t believe in eventually becomes accepeted fact. THAT is how the scientific method works.
    Also I don’t think that anything I have posted here, or spewed as you call it, is actually rubbish. It is not contraversial or left field. It is scientific fact or conjecture and open to testing. You may not like it or agree with it but if you wish to call it rubbish please tell me what is rubbish and why.

  1213. Saying that the pictures/photos of the Milky Way are CGI is one of the most depressing things I have read here or anywhere else.
    To deny and question the work and honesty of astronomers and telescope operators is staggering. It amost ranks alongside the deniers of the Apollo moon landings. Why would they falsify the photos?
    Even though Amit and Rico have views that are contrary to accepted scientific or historical theory they haven’t as far as I can see gone as far as Leah. A very sad state of affairs.

  1214. LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOCGILOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL>

  1215. gordi, so you says it rubbish until proven huh?

    I understand your position wholeheartedly. But understand that you stand as a naysayer. In other words a doubter, you establish yourself as a person that probably would have scoffed at many many things that would later be proven true should you have lived in the past.

    I understand that you consider ancient astronauts silly and all that but what I dont understand is where you get the gall or the authority to call me an idiot?

    You’re right man. I said it, Fuck you.

    If I met you in real life and you called me an idiot I say fuck you to your face and I’d be ready to do more than that. Its a fact. You do that shit here because you feel safe. You take advantage of the security in here.
    Its ccol though. The internet is many thingss to many people. If I were you, I wouldn’t boast about posing this thread on any departamental boards though. It makes it sound as if it may be a highlight in your day and thats rather pathetic.

    Maybe you should take a couple of days off and take the ol’ lady out or something.

    Ask Owain to take over he has a shitstack of annoying cliches to coin in here.

    Meanwhile, as scientist youre a dumb shit because you fail to realize that lack of evidence cannot be considered as evidence.

    In simple terms that you may understand without all the bullshit.

    Just because I cannot prove ancient astronauts does not mean they did not exist.

    Its that simple.
    I can imagine all those department heads shaking their heads after you walk away thinking to themselves that you”re an asshole.

    You don’t seem able to read people to well.

    The Brady Bunch episode I bought up referred to their maid saying how DAILY RED MEAT WAS SO GOOD FOR YOU.

    This of course has now been…How do you say it? Discredited. See how science flip flops all the time?

    Don’t worry man, we can’t all be right all the time. When ancient astronauts are proven. I probably won’t be on this thread anymore but you’ll be thinking about RICOCHET and AMIT, and all the “lunatics” that were in thie forum.

    Thats how I see it.
    -R-

  1216. Freddy.55 Says:
    January 14th, 2009 at 4:43 am

    I have the impression that the scientists are attacking you and your friends because as they see it you’re presenting ideas as fact that cannot be proved. It’s is the job of scientists to probe and to ask for answers. Agreed?

    Freddy, Freddy , Freddy,

    What the fuck are you talking about? We presented facts as we’ve read from various sources.

    The so-called scientist you refer to attacked us personally for presenting these ideas. So if you’re following this thread and you saw that they started with the names yet you choose to post that bullshit above. Well Freddy, I think you deserve a good fuck you don’t you?

    Stop the fuckin refereeing and talk about the subject, Amit don’t give a rats ass about your opinion on how the these assholes responded to his post so don’t explain shit.

    Thank you for your cooperation on this matter,

    By the way I loved this one:

    Agreed?

    -R-

  1217. Amit man, this is crap, all we’re doing is entertaining these cyphers.

    These guys are so programmed I think they even wear blinders like the horses at the track.

    Its absurd the way they turn whatever you write around. I’m not accustomed to being spoken to like that and I lose it.

    I don’t hear that shit in real life so I get slightly upset seeing these pencil pushing clowns talking shit. Then they get groupies like Freddy there and I wanna throw up.

    Its sad man.

    I think I’m going to shut up about this. I’ll just watch.

    As long as it’s possibleand what I consider highly probable I can’t extinguish my convictions on this.

    I will continue to believe that this planet was seeded.

    This planet didn’t come from the plant with everything included. To assume that makes no sense.

    Theres a saying:

    Common sense is not common.

    So true.

    -R-

  1218. There has to be the first one, or small group, that proposes new / different theories.

    Galileo for example…..under long term house arrest because of his theory…..which was accurate. There is no rule that says…..beliefs or opinions, or theories of the majority, are in any way correct, just because of the number of people who subscribe to it.

    Man should stop deciding what is true / facts…..and start looking for truth / facts. Not everything can be, or needs to be analysed physically in order to be understood correctly.

    Man chooses to perceive animals as having no ability to think, deliberate with themselves, no dreams, no spiritual aspect…..it suits man to do so…..well….he doesn’t want to put himself off his food.
    Yet, observation from different perspectives has proven the deliberate communication and co-operation between animals …….acts of revenge, even culture. A male alpha Lion that specifically hunts down and kills the queen Hyena of a pack that killed his alpha Lioness, with the aid of other males from the pride, that keep the pack in check, whilst he kills the queen……is calculated. The quenn Hyena was left, un touched, not viewed as food for the pride, but as an example to the rest of the Hyena pack.
    This is just one example……Dolphins protecting man from Sharks….the list is endless. Man however convinces himself of all kinds of falsehoods……because it suits him….and further because they don’t want to see the truth. They all want the truth…..not many can handle it.

    No doubt billions are being spent in the genetics field to prove the like of my kind wrong re animal life in comparison to human life…….to what end…..to further inflate man’s ego. Besides there’s a golden rule, (not my idea) that it is more difficult to disprove anything, and easier TO prove anything. I suppose that’s due to no one ever trying to prove anything without something, no matter how small, having presented itself and which prompted questioning.

    The Summerian Tab#lets too are something which prompted questioning. No smoke without fire.

  1219. Rico says: Meanwhile, as scientist youre a dumb shit because you fail to realize that lack of evidence cannot be considered as evidence.

    Whereas you and your followers adhere to the line that if there’s no provable evidence it doesn’t matter because we’re right anyway.
    I’ll be over in America soon for a conference so if you want to meet up in Central Park to discuss our differences that’s fine.

    As I’ve said previously I have no problem either with you holding your beliefs and expounding them neither do I deny the possiblity of ancient astronauts. all I ask for is demostarble prove they exist and have visited us. Quoting ancient myths about gods and telling me they are talking about alien visitors is dubious at best.

  1220. Thank you Rico for your considered and literate response.
    I need to lie down in a darkened room for a while to recover from your stinging words. Pity such an incisive intellect is wasted here. Have you considered a career as a political speechwriter?

  1221. Dear Gordy,

    No flogging of dead horses…..just an example to encourage open mindedness…..as the past has prooved against all the odds….that 1 alone can be the holder of correct knowlege…..whilst all others held incorrect, or at best incomplete knowlege. Nothing more was intended.

    Takes guts to look in places that others deem pointless….just because they do so en mass, being popular opinion / belief. Popularity is not a deciding factor, nor indicator of correct knowlege.
    Be well, Leah

  1222. Let’s consider for a moment that the earth was seeded at some point in the past. Or perhaps the genes of the man/chimp ancestor were altered and again with A. afarensis and H. erectus as an experiment. Let us also suppose that it really is an experiment.
    When will the alien scientists return to see how things in their Petri dish are progressing? Within the next ten years? What will they find? A grasping, greedy, warring infestation swarming all over the place and destroying it piece by piece.
    Looking at the state of their experiment they will probably say, “Oh we left it too long in the sun and it’s ruined. Let’s start again”
    Will they further alter the genes of the dominant species [and will it hurt?]?
    Will they flush it down the pan?
    Will they reduce the problem by 50-60-70-80 percent?

    Why should they feel sympathetic towards us? If they are able to cross interstellar distance and genetically alter a species they will be as far in advance as we are beyond fish. We have no compunction in harvesting fish for our food or scrapping a failing experiment so why should they?
    Even the benevolent Judeo-Christian god swept away his creation in a flood didn’t he when it ‘failed’.
    No matter how much those who say we were such a trial and appear to revel in the idea it won’t save them come flushing time. No amount of welcome mats or take me up signs will help.
    So perhaps it’s not such a good idea to think we’re an experiment or that those who set it in motion will return ever never mind any time soon.

  1223. Gordy, Owain, Paul etc. You really should stop aggravatting the other side. It’s not fair. Going down to the local Bedlam and poking the poor lunatics there for amusement was a popular sport in the 18th/19th centuries and was finally outlawed. You’ll only induce a stroke in poor Rico and Amit.
    You would have thought they’d have stopped screaming by now though after all this time.

  1224. Dear Paul,

    Quite so. I had used only Galileo as an example…..no mention of Sitchin.

    Francis Drake….as quoted by Overbye…..re hearing from ET.

    “need to look at 10 million stars (there are 200 billion in our galaxy) and there is not enough time left.”

    The Earth is gradually becoming “radio quiet” in a cosmic blink of the eye.

    “Once the powereful transmitters go off the air ‘we will still exist but we will be hard to detect.’ ”

    Is this fact set in stone…..or the absence of…..as yet un-conceived, undiscovered, other ways in which ET may detect life on Earth, or Earth itself ? Man decides it can be radio waves alone…….and thats it ?

    Not looking for answers to that one…..just an observation.
    Be well Leah.

  1225. good morning, guys…

    …and the debate rages on….

    rico and amit, perhaps we are “flogging a dead horse” here…though i agree that it certainly ranks high on the list of possibilities, and though it has not yet been proven OR DISPROVEN…i also can’t help but wonder what difference “knowing” would make…if we had that answer, what would we be doing with it? what impact would it have on us? how would it change anything? what difference would it make!@##%&*(

    …that’s the part i don’t understand…your thoughts are always considered with care and respect…but no one has addressed the “matter it would make” whether proven or disproven…it is also very possible that i missed a few posts, here and there…if i did, my apologies, and thank you for readdressing…

    as always, love and best wishes…

  1226. Maybe I can add my 2 pennies, & jump on your shit list as a new enemy. First, I have to say, why would ancient astronauts not have a job in the modern age? If they came around in the days of ole, What did they do harvest our gold? our souls? What could’ve they wanted. That now they have to hide and make sure they’re not spotted. If the goverments couldn’t hide them then, why isn’t there a alien anchorman on CNN.
    I mean come on ppl do you really believe, that you and I came from Adam & Eve? That this was a put by design, That every book from the past is made of lies. Thats what they call progress in todays age.Fanatics makes a mistake, and turn the page. Science re-writes and admits their mistakes. & every nut job out there wants to say “see it was fake”.
    But wheres your degree to say you studied more. “but explain the giza pyramids” why sure. Mathematics is a powerful code, thats not a secret, but very bold. & instead of looking in outer space. Your near-sighted ass can’t see the answer…RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE..

  1227. maddness–perhaps there ARE alien anchormen…and perhaps they ARE alive and well and sitting in our congress…i always thought “newt gingrich” was an odd name….but, HEY#$^&*() …that’s just me…

    did anyone ever see the movie “the adventures of buckaroo bonzai…across the 8th dimension”? NO RELEVANCE—JUST A SILLY THOUGHT…

    …let the insults begin…

  1228. Sur becks…And i’m a demon looking to get back to heaven. 🙂
    What else anybody here a vampire???

  1229. Gordy. You have made a mistake mentioning rugby as:
    1) You be labelled homosexual and
    2) you’ll have the mick taken by me and Paul. You seem to have forgotten the Dragon slaying the Wallabies in the autumn!

    Amit. While I will acknowledge the fact that you have presented many, many ideas regarding alien intervention you haven’t actually presented any scientific proof. The works of Sitchin et al, while popular, aren’t scientific. How many archaeologists and historians back him up? Just because he’s virtually a lone voice in the wilderness doesn’t make him right. There is a reason why claims such as his aren’t taken seriously – they’re false. Worse than that they’re distortions. This perversion of science, history and the disciplined approach to learning is a dreadful crime.

  1230. Sitting in congress??? If I came 2 light yrs to this place, i’d want a better job job then that.
    Like CEO of pepsi.
    Why fly all that way to get a job???
    If aliens gave us ancient knowledge my grandpa would’ve had a PSP. no?

  1231. True if Sitchin learned Summerian, Take ten yrs or so to learn a read it yourself. Why accept someones answer as the law.
    Find out for yourself the Truth…..
    Oh, I know you might not like what you find, eh?

  1232. And from what i’ve read some of you believe in God & aliens. Which in itself is a contradiction in itself, no? Are you waiting for Jesus to come out of a spaceship?
    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOOLMAO.

  1233. maddness–easy, big fella… it was a joke@##$%…

    …and we don’t need no “stinking spaceships”…heck, even i know that#$%&*

  1234. Galileo was a scientist trying to uncover the truth. His results debunked the prevailing ideas of a theocracy.
    Of course someone or two strike out with new ideas – yes – for pastures new. And sometimes they are proved right against all expectations. However, most scientific theories move forward based on previous ideas building on, not knocking down, previous ones. The idea that aliens interfered with proto-early- humans is just an idea. ALL the studies of genetics, history, archaeology are enough to show we evolved quite naturally here without outside help. If evidence comes to light that debunks my support for the prevailing theory then fine I will gladly accept it. Heaven knows how many times I, Owain or even Paul have to keep saying this before Rico etc understand what we’re saying here. Flogging a dead horse doesn’t come into it.

  1235. I agree with you Leah that it takes guts to look in the places others deem pointless but with the Sitchin theories in particular they have been dismissed because they are a mish-mash of science, pseudo-science, myth, conjecture etc and glued together to fit one persons particular idea. Left field thinking is to be encouraged but if examined and found wanting at the most basic level then it should been disregarded.
    No one thought Stephen Hawking’s theories about black holes evaporating and producing radiation were anything other than speculation at best. But because he was able to show how he had arrived at that conclusion and because of his reputation other mathematical physicists, astrophysicists and in particular particle physicists looked and studied his theory. Eventually it became accepted. Again I say this is how science proceeds.

  1236. I dont know, I like flogging dead horses. Then again I used to like tom green also. So then agree to disagree? is that what the theme is now.
    Your comment that “1 alone can be the holder of correct knowlege…..whilst all others held incorrect, or at best incomplete knowlege”
    I don’t get, how do you decipher who hand the correct knowledge first. what because someone taught you, no wait you had a gut feeling or because it makes sense to you?
    just cuz everyone agrees on something, doesn’t make or justify that “thing”.
    Just cuz “you get it”, doesn’t means its right either.
    To quote Galileo “All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them”
    But what makes them Truth?????

  1237. And now to quote the great Hawkings
    “I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road”.
    Again I say this is how science proceeds
    LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLO

  1238. Wait heres another from Enistien then Hawkings
    “I am convinced that He (God) does not play dice.”
    &
    “Not only does God play dice, but… he sometimes throws them where they cannot be seen”.
    These were your greatest mind 🙂

  1239. gordi, if only I still lived in the bronx I would have gladly met you in central park and shaken your hand.

    Madness, how you doin buddy? I just wanna say that the shit youre talking makes no sense. Sounds like youre fulla shit too.

    You declare yourself an immediate enemy fine, fuck you too.

    gordi, you’re fulla shit too, you didnt come in here saying that if ancient astronauts were ever proven you would accept it. You’d HAVE to accept at that point.

    You came in here calling us names and saying that what we were proposing was incredible and lunacy and all that shit.

    Its all good though. I don’t care for this shit no more. I’ll look in here now and then and post some shit.

    None of you assholes, maddy, gordi, owena, or any of the other collection of assholes debunking Sitchin has ever read anything by him. You Google shit and you think you know it all.

    Just for your edification, in his books Sitchin quotes other Sumerian translators from books that were written before his time.

    I don’t agree with everything Sitchin concludes, but I do believe that the ancient astronaut theory merits further scientific research.

    Madness, youre quite right, the science idea that we sprang from the ocean and evolved into the beings we are today is more credible than alien intervention.

    Paul, just to keep it goin a little. If this ancient astronaut theory proved to be the case and our leaders knew they were coming back I dont think they ‘d be welcomed with open arms or without a contingency plan.

    You science guys, maybe you can explain about this “missing link” that we all grew up hearing about. Its supposedly a link in mans evolutionary scale no?

    In other words???

    You know, its easy to come in here and have a laugh talking shit taking shots at the unpopular side and all that but its bullshit.

    You guys, Gordy, Owein, Freddy, all you dumb motherfuckers really need to study all this shit before you make a decision that you don’t believe.

    Its not 1 or 2 things. Its a whole slew of things.

    Anyway, fuck this, I’m out.

    -R-

  1240. I guess you guys consider the bible half truths.

    Because it does serve as a history book and has been used to locate ancient cities. There was a time when people thought that all the cities in the bible were fictional.

    Then we find these cities and they exist. Then we find the akkadian tablets and they tell stories. It seems like the bible stories had their origin in the much older sumer-akkade stories.

    These stories need further research because they describe what appears to modern thinking as aliens.

    They offer extraordinary explanations in scientific terms of the era.

    But its cool, you call me nuts or whatever.

    In my opinion, the ancient astronaut theory has merit.

    -R-

  1241. Dear Rico,

    Looking at Steve F’s comment…. These buggers really seem to think that their comments affect us! Anyway, let them enjoy their wild fantasies, imagining us getting upset by their crass comments and having a stroke!!
    Someone said that you should be a political speechwriter, but Steve should be writing C Grade Fantasy Flicks, he will do well!

    These guys dont even read much of what we post, and that disqualifies them to comment..
    Its so clear from Owain’s comment that they dont even read the posts.. He says that i haven’t posted any “Scientific” facts, but only Sitchin etc…
    Owain, you really need to go back and see what i have posted.. Much of it is based on DNA….. And when you co-relate these things with the so called “Ancient Myths”, it does make a lot of sense…. And i’m not just screaming about Alien Intervention.. I have raised some valid questions which dont have any “Scientific” explanation in your defintion..
    What you guys cal “Supernatural” is only natural, its just that its beyond your comprehension….

  1242. Unfortunately Amit your postings about DNA and genetics a mass of half-understood ideas. There is a lot of it but what truths there are are buried in garbage.

  1243. Owain,

    Truth still remains truth even if it is buried under tonnes of garbage…

    And it doesn’t qualify as garbage simply because you say so….. Most of the Scientific Theories are infact Half Undestood ideas.. And even those that are fully understood now, were half-understood at some point…Someone had the guts and took the pains to do some research….
    If all scientists had an attotude like yours’, those ideas would still have remained half-understood!

  1244. The attackers are afraid, afraid that their safe little truths may not be safe at all.
    Afraid that their cozy and exclusive beliefs
    may possibly be too narrow.

  1245. You are quite right that the truth can be buried under garbage but it is sometimes a Herculean task to dig it out.
    It is the job of scientists like me, as you put it to question, to probe and dig so that half-understood ideas and theories DON’T remain half understood. Alien intervention isn’t even a theory let alone a half understood one. At the most hopeful it’s a slight possibility; it’s an idea that cannot be proved because there is no evidence.
    You and Rico constantly say berate us with the phrase, “absence of evidence is not evidence of absence” when we say it’s false. What you are actually saying is, “absence of absolute, demonstrable evidence is therefore proof”.
    Your ideas unfortunately are not truth. They are in fact a deluded hope that somebody will turn up from the sky and make things here on earth better than they are now. Understandable perhaps but it represents a failure to take responsibility for ones own life good, bad or indifferent.

  1246. JAT: Sorry mate you’re wrong. Scientists know their truths are not safe from being changed. It happens ALL the time. Scientists look to advance the knowledge they have and very often this means demolishing their dearly held ideas/truths for something new and better. If this didn’t happen we’d still be pursuing the alchemists dream, believe the earth was flat and the universe circled the earth.

  1247. What if when God revealed to the angelic realm that he was going to create mankind and that the creation of mankind would lead to the ultimate purpose of all his creation.I wonder what they thought. Mankind was going to be created with the potential of becoming far greater than the angels.God revealed to the angels that they would share in the joy of what He would create through mankind. The angelic realm was shown that they were created to share and help in this greater purpose of all creation.God knew thet some of the angels (having free moral agency)would, in time,rebel against Him and go their own way. Lucifer did not like what God revealed. He became lifted up in pride and is own reasoning. He chose to believe that God’s way was not best, but that his own way was better. He actually became deceived into believing that he could rise up against God, making god subservient to him.He began to spread his disdain for God’s plan to other angels. As astounding as it is, a third of the angelic realm sided with him in a horrific rebellion against God.Lufcifer would learn that he was puny before God, and indeed, God is Almighty!!. Lucifer became known as Satan, the first great “adversary”of God. Satan chose to rebel against God and His plan and purpose. Character cannot be created in any being who is given independent thought and personage. The way one lives life is always a matter of choice.” This is played out in all the religions. Right and wrong, do we sit back and do nothing, look out for number one only? im 5’8 175lbs I haven’t been scared of something for awhile. I am a man of science and what I know is fact. Like if you were in good shape and had alot of money and were smart. You could be batman, right? As long as you have some facts to build on. A theroy on how ot would or should work. Then how could it not make sense. The Summerian’s had fugetabout it, more knowledge than we can decipher. Only 6 or 7 ppl have done it, I think. Thats fact, it’s science they used the same building blocks in thier society that we still use in ours today. despite our different backgrounds we all strive to be better than we were. Some not all sorrowfully. The goverments of this world will not help the common man, We are the ones who pay their bills and put the on their pedalistils’.
    How can they support us when we support them? If the 2012 end date has anything to do with death or riches, do you believe they would share the info?Leah, 411 means information:) and I should have metioned that a child in chess should not be taken advantage of. I taught my three boys to play chess, I am proud to say my oldest is undeafted in the house.Okay its later tahn i thought, hope everyone finds the truth their seeking. So you could let me know too. LOL g’night

  1248. Rico: Re. the missing link. The phrase the missing link was seized upon by the press many years ago. It was used by Victorian scientists, biologists, in attempt to explain why certain hominid fossils bore such a striking resemblence to humans. Everytime palaeontologists discover some new fossil whether it’s hominid, dinosaur, bird etc that may fill in gap the journalists use the sloppy shorthand “missing link”. It is certainly not in science’s dictionary.
    Amongst all the cheap shots I’ve made,as with the others, you’ll find explanations and pointers as to where you can find a deeper explanations and insights to the questions you throw our way.

  1249. One reason why so many ancient cities seem to have disappeared from the historical record is that as invaders swept in from N.S.E.W. they occupied and changed the names! Sumer for instance – Babil = became Babylon in the bible; Bad tibira is today Medina; Eridu=Abu Shahrein; Susa=Shush known in the bible as Shushan. Many cities of Sumer simply haven’t survived into the modern era.

  1250. If our leaders knew thje ancient astronauts were coming back any contingency plan would be pointless. If the aliens were benevolent they would by-pass the leaders to bring us peace, harmony, whatever. If hostile nothing we did would be of any use in saving us. This isn’t a Hollywood film where some maverick air-ace single-handedly brings down the entire alien fleet. If anything on the earth can defeat an alien presence it will be more like H.G. Wells’ humble bacteria.

  1251. Amen to what pauly boy said. If the Aliens were hostile or benevolent, we would certainly know by now. we as a race are not a special as we think. That it would need some grand scheme to take over this mud-ball in space.
    We are really nothing special, if any outsiders wanted to take over, the right sign here, distort this message there, & we will wipe overselves off the planet.
    95% of the world believes in a higher being.
    & 90% are willing to kill for just their belief.

  1252. Whats that mean ” comment is awaiting moderation.”

    They won’t let me post 🙁
    AWWWWWAAAAA!!!!
    AWWWWWAAAAA!!!!!

  1253. Well, it seems like you boys have toned down the name calling and made this somewhat more pleasant.

    Ok, Owain, what I’m saying is that you cannot declare yourself a scientist and scoff at any theory that has a possibility.

    Its up to the scientist to prove or disprove these things but this field encompasses many aspects of science. Theres archeology, astrology, astronomy, languages, etc…

    Many varying fields are coming together in these times to better study these artifacts.

    When Napoleon conquered Egypt he took with him many “scientist” to study the pyramids. In fact I think it was during that time that the rosetta stone was discovered. This opened up translations to other discovered writings.

    This field is young yet and with derision by the scientific community it will just delay matters.

    We were all taught basically the same thing. God is up and hell is down.

    Up where? Why do all these writings talk about beings that descended from above? Intelligent beings that the writings claim bestowed first an enhanced spirit and then complete civilization.

    The people that actually started civilization claim this.

    You guys may be scientist in your specific field but none of you are qualified to judge wether or not these writings are myths or history of some kind.

    There are thousands of tablets still being deciphered and many more waiting to be discovered and who knows what else.

    The reason I always bring up Baalbek is because even today with all the “science” and all the wisdom in the world. No one knows for sure how those monoliths were moved from over 6 miles away and raised they way they were. That place is so old that anything that was found there was built later. Many times it was built over, but that foundation was already there from way back.

    Look into it yourselves.

    The Pyramid at Giza inclined at 52 degrees is special. No inscriptions were found innside and it was not a tomb. There are crevices and slots inside that at one time held other stones or something that were never found.

    The headgear that the Egyptians wore and the “God” were were never found.

    Madness, all of that stuff you talked about, heaven-hell, God-Devil. This was not found in the sumerian stories. This came much later probably from pre semitic akkade or the hebrews themselves.

    I already stated that the hebrews attributed all the credit to Yahweh for deeds that were recorded thousands of years earlier and were claimed to be done by other “Gods-Aliens”.

    You guys can all tell us the scientific “theory” about how we evolved from whatever and how we came from scratch. Its ok. But remember, thats only a theory that has not been proven yet you accept it.

    There are many scientific theories that you accept, but theyre still theories.

    Its ok, I understand what you do. But it may work against you too. Because no one here really really knows if that calendar is connected with some….Event.

    I don’t care, we all gonna die anyway. But if you look into the whole picture. The whole picture to see where it ends.

    Then you look up the calendar. You will learn that it isn’t a Mayan invention after all. You learn of the Olmecs. You trace them back to Africa. Then from there you keep going and eventually you wind up in Sumer, the biblical Shinar.

    Its really freaky, it really is. The study of the stars at that ancient period.

    I dont study the stars. I look at them but I dont study them. Its hard to comprehend how early man having just become civilized, no, simultaneous with starting civilization found time to study the stars and come up with incredible accuracies.

    To top it all off, he invents an entire pantheon of gods along with stories about each one.

    C’mon guys, at some point you have use common sense.

    Religion is a residue of something from way back. Its a shell now but at one time it was real.

    I cannot accept the Judeo-Christian description of God. There are too many discrepancies. I cannot accept the mystical God that they describe.

    Even in the bible Gods flaws are apparent.

    You ask for proof. I say that in the Vatican secrets library you will probably find something more direct. The vatican has its own telescope I think in virgina from way back too.

    I think that religion would do everything posiible in order to cover up something like this. I think scientist are compromising people.

    It don’t matter, this is what I believe. I do believe in conspiracies, if you don’t you’re a fool.

    Whatever.

    Its a possibilty.

    -R-

  1254. I appreciate this change of tone and i hope it stays like that……
    The argument can be made in a much better way like this….

    Owain,
    You said –
    “Your ideas unfortunately are not truth. They are in fact a deluded hope that somebody will turn up from the sky and make things here on earth better than they are now. Understandable perhaps but it represents a failure to take responsibility for ones own life good, bad or indifferent.”

    I dot agree with this, i never said that somebody will turn up fro sky and make things better.. I was just contemplating about Alien intervention in the “Past”, no one can say what the future holds…For all that we know, that alien race itself might have perished long ago…

    And regarding Ancient Texts and monuments, on one can construct better arguments than Rico… I entirely agree with him..
    We cannot ignore the signs provided by the ancients…. Their prophecy needs to be understood…

  1255. It is clear, Rico wrote re the Olmecs….You trace them back to Africa. That is they went from Africa to the Americas.
    Why twist the woeds of another to imply the opposite…..such a waste of time……is contrare and argumentative.

    Gordy if you have Genetic info regarding those in Asia as being of a different original Gene pool to the one traced back to Africa……please share.

  1256. Astrology is NOT science let’s get that straight. It is the sham of predicting the future and a person’s life and destiny from the movements of the stars and planets. Quite how a random sprinkling of stars that just happen to form the supposed outline of a group of mythical creatures has never been explained. Capricornus the Sea-Goat. Now what is that? Sagitarius the man-horse archer. In practically all the zodicial constellations none of the stars making up the sign are anywhere near each other meaning that the constellation is not a physical group or entity. Of all the ways of bamboozling the public this is by far the worst. As I have said numerous times here I can quite happily live with ideas of aliens both existing and even possibly having visited earth but the hoax of astrology is truly appalling.

  1257. good morning–all…

    right before christmas, TBN, aired a special called “the Star of Bethlehem”…did anyone see it??? it is a wonderful theory…the author of this theory used scripture and STARRY NIGHTS software and back the heavens up to or around the time of the birth of christ…what he found in the heavens is really pretty cool stuff…if anyone cares to share, check it out on bethlehemstar.net …good stuff…

    rico, and amit…thank you for your relentless persistance…it is muchly needed…whether the theory is right or wrong, right now it really doesn’t matter…what matters, to me, is that without this kind of persistance, no one will ever truly know for sure…no one will ever be willing to “go out on that limb”…

    take a step back, at times, if you must, to catch your breath, but please don’t ever walk away…

    thank you for that “relentless
    persistance”…on all accounts…and thanks also to all for toning it down a notch…it is much more pleasurable to visit here…

    best wishes, and please be well..

  1258. Relentless persistence is fine if the course one is following is the truth or the quest for the truth. It is not a good thing when the thing one is shouting about is utter garbage. Spouting blathering nonsense about pyramids not being the tombs of pharaohs, aliens genetically altering humans, a non-existant planet Niburu about to descend on us from the outer reaches of the solar system and clay tablets from Sumer recording alien gods on the basis of no evidence at all is the sign of a demented mind. Mad as an outhouse rat.
    And Rico, your tirade the other day was clearly the product of a severely ill-mannered slob. You accuse others of abuse yet top everyone with a tide of filth. I’m not a prude and would only use such language in the presence of people I knew wouldn’t offended. I wasn’t offended by the way but I wouldn’t be surprised if your female friends here, Leah and Becky, took a few steps back from you. Ladies, I hope you don’t mind me speaking for you. Perhaps you aren’t offended even though not it wasn’t directed at you. I’m all for freedom of speech but with that freedom comes a sense of responsibility.

  1259. Can someone point me in the direction so I can find out how the Olmecs are traceable to Africa please.

  1260. That can be applied to all humans. I think that what Rico is suggesting is that the Olmecs arrived in Africa via the Atlantic Route rather than ‘evolving’ on the American continent having followed the Bering Strait Route. Apart from a very few isolated groups nearly all ‘native’ Americans show Oriental physical features which indicate a point of origin in the Far East.

  1261. Dear Persona non Grata,

    You re-wrote some of what I’d written in the past 10 months to what avail, may I enquire ?

    It really is time for the eloquent riddles to become clear and coherant. It is the only language which is paid any attention. Gnostic joe, maintains it is too late…..maybe….but only in so far as the longer work to be done is left to build up, the bigger and more difficult the task.

    Be well, Leah

  1262. Okay i’m out. its over, the storm is about to begin. I have a some food for thought…you don’t have to eat any, if you don’t want.
    Why is it not more important that you were all made of flesh & bone?? How is it that traceing back Atlantic Route & Strait Route. Or worring about Oriental, Africain, British, Etc.Etc…
    Don’t
    all of you share the same Mitochondrial DNA, Isn’t that enough to show you that you all belong to the same Gene pool, Primordial Soup, Godbody, Universal One. ……

  1263. …..That energy that sparked the Big Bang. Realization is simply waking up. Things cannot be put right without effort, and the question arises “In what direction is effort most necessary?”

    The solution lies with the individual; it is useless to talk of others until we have reformed ourselves. It is useless to talk to Gordy or Rico, who are equally as thick headed in their belief. It is useless to talk of reforming others until we have reformed ourselves. It is equally useless to rely upon someone else to do for use what we are quite capable of doing and should do for ourselves. The soul of Man/Woman — which is the plastic mediator between body and spirit — has become distorted; he/she must learn to rectify its structure before he can obtain a clear outlook and a proper point of view. ………….

  1264. ……………The child is, in one sense, the best example of the perfect man or woman, and if the child were allowed to develop Intelligence unhampered by false notions from outside, it would grow to be the true example of the God-Man or Man-God in the majority of cases. We have ruined our children before they have had a chance to come to maturity; our well-meaning, though ignorant, parents and childhood teachers have instilled into our subconscious minds most of the “complexes” which in after life we can only eradicate by bitter toil and bloody sweat. You are asked from a young age. “What will you be, when you grow up?”. A question that rushes your judgement, & clouds your vision from whats around you, to yourself.
    The storm has begun. science nor prayers are going to save you now. Believe in what you wish. May you find your light.

  1265. How did the Olmecs get from Africa to the Americas? I most certainly was NOT twisting words to imply the opposite. As I said virtually all the native inhabitants of the Americas, from Inuit to the people of Tierra del Fuego, arrived there from east Asia via the Bering Land Bridge. Their physical attributes, [epicanthic folds in the eyes, virtually no or very little ear wax, straight black hair, little or no facial hair etc] are so similar to those of the regions of China, Siberia, Japan as to be indistinguishable. Again as I said previously, we all have the same basic DNA wherever we live because we are all the same bloody species. Physical differences are determined by the environment in which the person lives over a period of millennia. The DNA doesn’t change.

  1266. Funny, how with the passing of a little time, how the small details are forgotten. Like who wrote re 411, originally etc. Who bothers to remember what was said / promised in a speech a year ago…….and not just the parts that appealed. Few attach importance to the little things…….or to one solitary word in a speech that is no longer included…..whereby changing the sentiment.

    One person offers their services to others…..gets elected…..and ends up with all the hopes and wishes of the many …..on their shoulders. A few men and their teams worldwide cannot resolve e.g. pollution…….its upto individuals to pollute less. E.g. Everything dumped down the toilet or kitchen sink effects everyones drinking water and nature……and no, e.g. many substances such as drugs cannot at present filtered out adequately, but not for the lack of trying, so circulate to all.

    E.g.
    The 100 million ton plus garbage islands in the Pacific gyres…..consisting of man made materials are poisoning sea life, which in turn is eaten by other species including man.
    Many contributed in one way or another,and many are and will continue to be aflicted by the garbage islands, through the food chain.

    As Just a Thought wrote……cause and effect…….action and reaction……..thought the reaction / effect is never as benign as the original cause / action…… bites back like a viper. Again, as Just a Thought wrote…..”be more mindful of how we change the lives of those around us”……..I’ll extend that to “be more mindful of how we change the lives of all life on Earth”…….which includes the self.

    E.g. The CO2 and methane emitted, anywhere on Earth, effects all life on Earth, and Earth itself. The bottom line reads……stop doing it to yourselves…..which in turn harms all others.

    Now the BUT, types will state…..BUT I CAN’T…..use less petroleum….use less cosmetic products…..shower / bathe less often…..use eco friendly cleaning products……be less wasteful with electricity…….eat less but more healthily…….not use harmful chemicals in the garden etc. We might not be able to make everything perfect……but we could at least have the best that we can do as a goal.
    Well Being for All life.

  1267. Paul,

    I agree with you on the point about Astrology.. The way its used to misguide people is unacceptable….
    In my country there are people who wont even go to take a leak without consulting their astrologer!!!

  1268. Dear Becky,

    Thanks for the link to Bethlehem Star, i had heard about it in bts and pieces but now thanks to your link, i will be able to read more in leisure…
    And thanks for the encouragement too…. You have very precisely noted that i take a break sometimes, but dont worry, i am not going anywhere, even when i’m not in the middle of it , i’m hanging around the sidelines…
    I dont think of myself as a crusader on a quest for the revelation of truth.. I’m here only because i like to discuss what i know, and to get other opinions as well.. And ofcourse, there are these debate and arguments, though not always enjoyable…
    I know i will never be able to change their views.. But whats the harm in trying? And even If they prove me wrong, what have i go to lose? Ultimately i’ll end up having detailed versions of both sides of the story!

  1269. I see the United States has many canges in store for it, I hope the people around the world listen well to the new president and hear between the words. The change has started but it will not be what some expected it to be.
    Life is not random chance it, did not begin on its own, it was started with a purpose and will continue until that purpose is fulfilled.
    What is that purpose?
    I would not even begin to pretend to know.
    It can NOT be said that our deeds have no role in big picture, Cause-Effect, Action=Reaction. We are required to endure the effect/result of our decisions. Having said that, if each of us would be more mindful of how we change the lives of those around us… life would improve.
    Things get a little easier, once you understand.

  1270. amit, please know i was not faulting you IN ANY WAY…thank you for all you are to me and contribute to this thread…you have been such a catalyst for me…and i am eternally grateful…there was no criticism intended there—please know that!!!!! don’t change a thing…hope you enjoy “the star of bethlehem”…

    much love, and be well…

  1271. just a thought–beautifully said…and thank you…yet another phase of our journey…

    perhaps now would be a good time to reiterate that we cannot control what anyone does or says—only how we react to it…

    may we all find our “light”…

    be well…and thanks again…

  1272. When nothing else could help,
    love lifted me.
    Try it for yourself sometime.
    I’m sure more data to prove love or faith…
    oh, never mind!!!#+%&#%

  1273. “when nothing else could help, love lifted me”…

    …those are the words to a hymn we used to sing as a child…funny how those little things keep coming back@#$#%^&&

  1274. PnG—the nibiru/YOWUSA post was mine—but that’s okay!!! most certainly not “glory-grabbing”, here…but, was just very surprised that it resurfaced…thanks–i think…

    please take care, and be well…always good to hear from you…

    becky

  1275. Dear Becky,

    I know that no criticism was intended and no offense was taken indeed… My turn to apologise if my words gave you that impression…..
    🙂
    I know you all very well now, and i can never misinterpret your posts….
    Each of us have something to contribute, and thats what makes our group click. And you always come up with such beautiful thoughts, like the one above – “perhaps now would be a good time to reiterate that we cannot control what anyone does or says—only how we react to it…”
    Like a breath of fresh air on this thread!

    I was able to read a bit about the Star, and the little that i have read so far is enough to stir my interest….
    Celestial Poetry Indeed!!

    Thanks again!

    And i know you’ll be well…

  1276. Just a Thought.

    Now thats like the JAT we know!

    Nice thought…..

    Purpose of Life, the eternal question…
    Dont worry, time will tell… Only time can tell….

  1277. Prof Craig Hogan at Fermilab…….

    “Are we real, or quantum interactions at the edge of the universe”…..”and is that just as real anyway?”

    Why just at the edge……and why wouldn’t quantum interactions be real ?

  1278. JAT says:
    “Life is not random chance it, did not begin on its own, it was started with a purpose and will continue until that purpose is fulfilled.
    What is that purpose?”
    DO you have knowledge to the contrary? Life was a random, though repeatable occurrance, it did begin on its own without ‘divine’ help, and will continue until it ends. No purpose, no plan.

  1279. Leah wrote: “It really is time for the eloquent riddles to become clear and coherant. It is the only language which is paid any attention. Gnostic joe, maintains it is too late…..maybe….but only in so far as the longer work to be done is left to build up, the bigger and more difficult the task.”

    Now this is riddle that should be made clearer. WHAT the hell are you banging on about? The fragments of statement that are posted here are utter rubbish. Incomplete thoughts posing as philosophical musings. Juvenile at best.

  1280. Thank you Paul,

    Words like Virtual and Real, and their perceived meaning as per a dictionary, make it difficult to explain Quantum Physics as it actually is perceived at present. Most folk perceive the word Virtual, as Almost or on the Brink of……likewise the word Real…..genuine, or actual.

    You rightly used the word “Appears”…….A Quantum particle has been detected as being in several places simultaneousy…..or so it would appear…this is not necessarily the case…..but it will be believed to be so until it is inspected from other perspectives, and the data compared.
    The technology exists, but not the capacity yet, with which to inspect Quantum Particles from different perspectives…..soon, that is if it hasn’t already been achieved, but hasn’t been made public.
    It is obvious and understandable that contracts of employment include clauses prohibiting researchers / scientists from speaking or writing about their findings, without the express permission of their paymasters / funders, and their agendas.
    Be well, Leah.

  1281. What a truly appalling person Rico is. His rant earlier this week was the mark of a thoroughly ignorant person.
    As his theories crumble he hides behind abuse, myth and lies. Hopefully he’ll confine himself to howling in the night while he and his group huddle in the darkness around their CAMPFIRE swapping stories of gods, aliens and assorted crap. Their collective menatlity is STILL that of the stone-age human – making up stories to keep the cold night and haunters of the dark at bay. Truly the meek will inherit the earth while the rest of us fly to the stars.

  1282. Handy Andy,

    I’m sure you will fly to the stars………
    If Rico gets to kick your sorry rearside…

    BTW, whats so Handy about you???
    You seem to be a an errand boy in Gordy’s office.. I can almost hear people calling you – Go Andy Fetch my Tiffin!! Andy, clean up this mess on my table! Andy, walk my dog for me , will ya?
    Handy Andy! Ha!!

  1283. I can think of fewer things sadder than having your life and that of every other man, woman, child and animal planned out in advance and having a pre-determined purpose. One of the few ‘purposes’ we should have is to see that those around us are cared for.

  1284. To AMIT: Actually dopey I’m the local handyman in my village. I go around repairing buildings, walls, water courses, fixing farming equipment and so on. Andrew who is handy ergo HandyAndy. Are you the group clown? Har, har, har. Ho, ho, ho. Pillock.

  1285. Hello friends. I see the lunatics have upset yet ANOTHER newbie to this site. They really know how annoy and antagonise people. Still, they provide innocent amusement for the folk in my department and beyond. Can’t hang around as academia won’t wait.

  1286. P.s. Nice ping about CAMPFIRE. See you all there sometime then? The more who know about the lunatics and their dog-slobbering ideas the better.
    Over and out.

  1287. Y’all are lucky Maddness isn’t doing the post. Cause he wouldn’t be so kind.
    Y’all really have no idea what is meant by
    “purpose”. You need for someone to tell you?
    What sad is if you serve “no purpose”, then what are you still breathing for? What a waste.
    Don’t you provide a service at your work? Isn’t your family glad to see ya? Do you help in your community?
    Oh! so, now you feel you do serve a purpose.
    Well just so you know, you serve a higher purpose as well. To think your have tasks you must maintain, because you are aware of them allow me to remind you of the purpose of your lungs. To keep you breathing, whether your asleep or awake. you don’t control it. You were programed to breathe even if you get knocked out. On “purpose” because you are here for a “purpose”

  1288. PnG–thank you–well said%&)

    handy andy–you fix things…Good Lord!!! if that’s not a “talent” and a purpose, i dont’ know what it@#$%^

    owain–nice point…to love and be loved…the ultimate purpose…

    gee, you guys…you’re smart–handy, opinionated–yet you see no “purpose” in it…then why do you “do what you do?” why do you even bother to get up in the morning???

    now—i’m certainly no rocket scientist, but if i had to take a SWAG at it (that’s a “Scientific Wild-Assed Guess”)…i would say it’s because it is your purpose….

    …but hey! that’s just me…

  1289. amit–regarding “the star”—i know it is a lenghty read–the special aired for an hour–and i also know it bounces around a lot, but in the end, it comes full circle…hope you “stick with it” to the end…

    thanks so much for everything…

  1290. handy andy–just an afterthought—cheap pot shots will not gain you any favor…harsh words and sarcasm fly right by…this is a most resilient crowd—on all fronts…contrary to first impressons, which you may have gained by jumping in right in the middle…ALL thoughts and ideas are welcomed here…some are just debated a little more than others…please don’t be so quick to judge…not understanding the context in which something has been said only leads to a bigger misunderstanding…

  1291. PNG: Having read thru the posts here ‘purpose’ and ‘plan’ unforunately nearly always seems to mean a divine plan or purpose. Of which there is no evidence of course.

  1292. Quantum reactions/interactions take place so swiftly and appear to defy all logic. There are effects called quantum tunnelling where particles seem to pass through solid bodies instantaneously. There is an experiment called the Two-Hole Experiment where if you fire photons at a target through two holes the photons looks as though they’re thinking which target to hit or interfere with each other. Is this a real phenomenon? Are virtual particles real? Is Schroedinger’s Cat theory real? Well yes even though it appears not to be.

  1293. “there is an overlap of the implicit theory of wisdom with intelligence, perceptiveness, spirituality and shrewdness, it is evident that wisdom is a distinct term and not a composite of other terms?” True or False? First there must Knowledge then Understanding to have Wisdom.
    The aim of this is to enable you to systematically study yourself, by yourself.
    When major decisions need to be made and when we are at life’s crossroads we want to know what is the best desicion to make. We want to discover how to live out our lives. Somehow we tend to over complicate the matter when all we need to do is be like the little children. instead when tend to think no one “can teach me”, cuz your all grown up.
    But your still a child, like it or not. The scriptures say that “wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting, get understanding.” Proverbs 4:7. With these words, the Spirit is telling us that the absolute main thing that we need to receive is wisdom. We cannot get to God without it. We cannot find Him without it. It is the principal thing! He didn’t say to first get love or peace or go to meetings or tithe or anything of the kind. He said that wisdom is the main thing. To some extent the terms wisdom and intelligence have similar and overlapping meanings. The status of wisdom or prudence as a virtue is recognized in cultural, philosophical and religious sources. Now that’s intresting. A wise person can discern the core of important problems. In Islam, according to the Qur’an, all of the prophets of the Old Testament, Jesus, as well as the Prophet Muhammad were chosen by God, mostly in times of political or moral crisis, to represent his wisdom. They both commanded Their disciples to preach the Gospel to the entire world, and to baptise believers by immersion in water – 🙂 , whats thev chances? Which takes more faith? Believing your earthly leaders will guide you right? Or a heavenly Father only wants you to obey His laws?
    They both have a purpose for, but only one has the reward you’ll like the most 😉

    PNG

  1294. there is an overlap of the implicit theory of wisdom with intelligence, perceptiveness, spirituality and shrewdness, it is evident that wisdom is a distinct term and not a composite of other terms?” True or False? First there must Knowledge then Understanding to have Wisdom.
    The aim of this is to enable you to systematically study yourself, by yourself.
    When major decisions need to be made and when we are at life’s crossroads we want to know what is the best desicion to make. We want to discover how to live out our lives. Somehow we tend to over complicate the matter when all we need to do is be like the little children. instead when tend to think no one “can teach me”, cuz your all grown up.
    But your still a child, like it or not. The scriptures say that “wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting, get understanding.” Proverbs 4:7. With these words, the Spirit is telling us that the absolute main thing that we need to receive is wisdom. We cannot get to God without it. We cannot find Him without it. It is the principal thing! He didn’t say to first get love or peace or go to meetings or tithe or anything of the kind. He said that wisdom is the main thing. To some extent the terms wisdom and intelligence have similar and overlapping meanings. The status of wisdom or prudence as a virtue is recognized in cultural, philosophical and religious sources. Now that’s intresting. A wise person can discern the core of important problems. In Islam, according to the Qur’an, all of the prophets of the Old Testament, Jesus, as well as the Prophet Muhammad were chosen by God, mostly in times of political or moral crisis, to represent his wisdom. They both commanded Their disciples to preach the Gospel to the entire world, and to baptise believers by immersion in water – , whats thev chances? Which takes more faith? Believing your earthly leaders will guide you right? Or a heavenly Father only wants you to obey His laws?
    They both have a purpose for, but only one has the reward you’ll like the most

    PNG

  1295. Well Gordy,

    While you were so quick to jump to the defense of your Newbie Pal (As if he were a Diaper Clad Baby…), did you notice the kind of entree your newbie made here?? Is this the way to introduce yourself on a forum?? Do you think you will be welcome if you come and insult an oldtimer on a forum??
    He deserved what i gave him, and if he persists , he will get more of the same currency….
    Fine we are on a constant argument here, with 2 sides distinguished clearly, but that doesn’t entitle you are anyone else to spew shit about me and my friends here!
    Did you notice that your erstwhile friends have moderated there tones, first Paul and then Owain, and i appreciate that..
    But you still keep up your insulting blatherings, fine, if thats your forte then go on, i’m not bothered by such bleached old cockatoos as you..

  1296. Dear Leah/Paul,

    You have touched a really interesting point here… Please carry on and elaborate further..
    I wonder if we are all Quantum Interactions, that explains the Teleportation phenomenon, if ever there was one!

  1297. Dear Becky,

    Nice one about SWAG….
    I’m sure someone is smarting from that blow, LOL!

    And about the “Purpose”, well, can you expect a First Grader to solve Integration/Differentiation problems??

    Owain had a good point about looking after and caring for people around you…. But thats not the purpose… There will be a time when
    you realise that no one belongs to you, just like you belong to no one…. And ultimately, you are here for your own self , rest is all illusion, which you have to rise above… Dont ask me how to do that, cos i’m still trying.. But i’m trying to figure out atleast…

  1298. Dear PNG,

    Yep, you got a lot of D&G in you….
    If one reads some of your posts without seeing the name, it would be hard to distinguish if its by D or G or you……
    Just the way D&G were, there posts were sometimes indistinguishable from each other…
    You are going the same way now….
    Is it ? Or is it just me?

  1299. Just sample this gem, from one of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s books –

    “Suppose a small bundle of connected corks was launched in a sluggish current upon a voyage across the Atlantic. The
    corks drift slowly on from day to day with the same conditions all round
    them. If the corks were sentient we could imagine that they would
    consider these conditions to be permanent and assured. But we, with our
    superior knowledge, know that many things might happen to surprise the
    corks. They might possibly float up against a ship, or a sleeping whale,
    or become entangled in seaweed. In any case, their voyage would probably
    end by their being thrown up on the rocky coast of Labrador. But what
    could they know of all this while they drifted so gently day by day in
    what they thought was a limitless and homogeneous ocean?

    “The Atlantic, in this
    parable, stands for the mighty ocean of ether through which we drift and
    that the bunch of corks represents the little and obscure planetary
    system to which we belong. A third-rate sun, with its rag tag and
    bobtail of insignificant satellites, we float under the same daily
    conditions towards some unknown end, some squalid catastrophe which will
    overwhelm us at the ultimate confines of space, where we are swept over
    an etheric Niagara or dashed upon some unthinkable Labrador, reasons why we should watch with a
    very close and interested attention every indication of change in those
    cosmic surroundings upon which our own ultimate fate may depend.”

    Splendid Analogy, isn’t it??

  1300. HandyAndy,

    You are calling me the group clown and making it sound like an accusation? I take it as an honour !!
    Even then, i’m way better than you, who is just another one of those obstinate, unimaginative obstructionists!

  1301. Intelectual property…….researchers aquire it…..are subject to gag orders via contracts…….others decide when and what is released to the public. Only independants are the owners of their intelectual property. There are not many of those in the world.
    Hands up…….how many scientists on this thread own the rights to their research and findings / theories ?

  1302. So AMIT, this is how you greet newcomers is it? ” I’m way better than you”. What next? My dad’s bigger than your dad?
    Well, your mother swims after troopships. You’re an idiot and from reading some of your posts you’re a demented no-nothing.

  1303. Wisdom doesn’t come first. It comes at the end of a road that contains trial, experience, failure, recapitulation and eventually wisdom. If you’re lucky.

  1304. PNG at 10:56 22/1/09.
    I do wish people would stop quoting religious texts as the only source of “wisdom”, “tolerance”, “love” etc etc. These ideas and feeling existed long before religion was codified and organised. They are not the exclusive right of religion. Humans lived by the “Ten Commandments” and other religious ideas thousands of years before Moses and will long after religion is dead and buried in ther trash heap of history. It is a conceit of unimaginable magnitude for believers to hijack these ideas when they have shown that religion of whichever stripe is quite capable of writing into the philosophies that non-believers, heretics, pagans, those who question etc should be put to death in as many painful and imaginative ways as possible.

  1305. Thanks Paul,

    Good to see someone with a steady head on his shoulders, amongst the insufferable pile of rubbish that call themselves “scientists”, or even humans!

  1306. HandyAndy,

    You very conveniently skirted my question and turned it around upon me…

    You are the one who arrived with all guns blazing… Is this the way you enter a forum?

    And you have shown the ultimate sign of cowards, resorting to abusing the oher’s mother….. Well, that can be expected from sissys like you… When the retarded brain of your could not come up with a valid retort, you resort to crude remarks that dont make any sense!

    I may be a nothing, but i’m glad that i’m not you! HA!!!

  1307. Owain,

    You poor little bugger! What makes you think that we are here to amuse you???
    Wow, what a crazy, deluded guy you are!!!

    BTW, i’ll just repeat Rico’s accusation about you.. What have you got to contribute? Besides your Top/Side/Down Arrows to others???
    You better shut your trap…. Because its only shit that comes out of there!

  1308. No Amit you’re not here to amuse me but like Gordy it’s people around us you amuse. Personally I find you ……. silly. Not as offensive as Rico yet but you have the potential. Poking the lunatics. Cruel and of limited use but if we’re all going to descend to that level I’m sure I can find it somewhere in the dark part of my soul. And that is NOT to be taken as admitting a religious soul by the way.

  1309. Handy A. The best way to deal with these science bashers is to ignore their child-like abuse and wait until they post something ludicrous that flies in face of reality or can’t be proved. That’s the time to point out how crazy they are. There will be plenty to ‘have a go at’ so bide your time. If you’ve read through the whole of the thread, and kudos to you if you’ve struggled past 1500+ comments, you’ll see that there are dozens of, quote, ravening, foam-flecked, unquote, postings.
    They are quick to seize on anything we say we don’t know or can’t yet explain it as a proof for their side of an argument. They’re never satisfied with an answer. If an answer isn’t forthcoming it’s always a conspiracy set up by science or government because the authorities don’t want them to know. Look at the posts regarding the patch of sky that was allegedly blocked out because it was supposed to hide planetX/Niburu. Turns out it was because the observations hadn’t been done in visible light though it had been looked at in infra-red microwave. That’s how they work – not researching the details properly, deliberately twisting the evidence or conveniently ignoring it. You’ll get used to it and get to know the jokers who perpetuate the gargage.
    As Gordy says, I think, check out the Campfire.

  1310. Usually gag orders apply only to researchers /scientists working for corporations rather than academic institutions, universities. It’s stuff that has an immediate commercial application. A friend of mine worked for B.P. [British Petroleum] in th e1980’s and he developed a new type of fractionating column which B.P. bought from him. He signed an agreement promising not to use it with, or sell to, any third party. As a research student the money he got was very welcome.
    Discovering a new particle, a new star, formulating a new theory isn’t subject to these gagging orders.

  1311. Dear Espumpin and Company,

    No suprise or hurt here….good lesson for all, in paying attention to small signs.
    Be well, Leah

  1312. PNG at 10:56 22/1/09.
    I do wish people would stop quoting religious texts as the only source of “wisdom”, ppl didn’t qoute, it was me 🙂
    You understand what makes sense to you? right!. We’ll use Positive & Negative, positive numbers are any numbers greater than zero, for example: 1, 2.9, 3.14159, 40000, and 0.0005. Right? For each positive number, there is a negative number that is its opposite. There are Positive & Negatives in Light. Positive and Negative ions help you to predict the chemical formulae of most acids, bases and salts. Am i correct so far? I don’t wish to jump around to fast as to lose the point. There are Negative and Positive rights (not to be confused with the similar but different distinction between Positive & Negative liberties). There is a good deal of debate about the health effects of everything and whether these effects are primarily Positive or Negative. 😉 My question to you!!
    If Science is your Positive & Religion is your Negative. Do you still not not see the correlation coefficient between these two variables? When we are told that “there is no evidence that A causes B” we should first ask whether absence of evidence means simply that there is no information at all. if that is true, then the Truth must be accepted. But have you tried to read through, as earnestly, Any # of religious books, as you have the books you like to read? And different religions don’t get boged down on one, cuz p&s reaches different paths. does it mean that if an atom has equal numbers of protons and electrons it will have no overall charge? NO. If this makes sense to you, Good, if not then you simply do know want to connect the dots. and I qouted you qouting me so don’t say pp are qouteing either 🙂
    Wish I had more time….
    Squezze you later,, PnG

  1313. I earnestly wish ye could bear with me a little in my folly: and indeed bear with me.
    2 Cor.11:1

  1314. PNG at 10:56 22/1/09.
    I do wish people would stop quoting religious texts as the only source of “wisdom”, ppl didn’t qoute, it was me
    You understand what makes sense to you? right!. We’ll use Positive & Negative, positive numbers are any numbers greater than zero, for example: 1, 2.9, 3.14159, 40000, and 0.0005. Right? For each positive number, there is a negative number that is its opposite. There are Positive & Negatives in Light. Positive and Negative ions help you to predict the chemical formulae of most acids, bases and salts. Am i correct so far? I don’t wish to jump around to fast as to lose the point. There are Negative and Positive rights (not to be confused with the similar but different distinction between Positive & Negative liberties). There is a good deal of debate about the health effects of everything and whether these effects are primarily Positive or Negative. My question to you!!
    If Science is your Positive & Religion is your Negative. Do you still not not see the correlation coefficient between these two variables? When we are told that “there is no evidence that A causes B” we should first ask whether absence of evidence means simply that there is no information at all. if that is true, then the Truth must be accepted. But have you tried to read through, as earnestly, Any # of religious books, as you have the books you like to read? And different religions don’t get boged down on one, cuz p&s reaches different paths. does it mean that if an atom has equal numbers of protons and electrons it will have no overall charge? NO. If this makes sense to you, Good, if not then you simply do know want to connect the dots. and I qouted you qouting me so don’t say pp are qouteing either
    Wish I had more time….
    Squezze you later,, PnG

  1315. NASA Gets First Look at Far Side of SunSpace.com
    posted: 1 HOUR 7 MINUTES AGO

    (Jan. 23) – NASA’s twin STEREO spacecraft are offering the first glimpse of the far side of the sun, the space agency announced today.
    The two spacecraft, launched Oct. 25, 2006, are beaming back over-the-horizon images “that have researchers and forecasters glued to their monitors,” according to a statement made by C.H.A.O.S. LOL I couldn’t do it. he he he, you should’ve seen the looks on your face. ooohh ha ha ha, priceless, snicker, chuckle. Sorry no hurt feelings right mate. 😉

    Maddness

  1316. Okay okay, i see that one went over your head. No, I’m not espumpin I’m maddness. Its was just a joke, in bad taste. Yes. but your weird Leah. do you think i’m Espumpin???

  1317. Dear Maddness and company,

    No suprise or hurt here…..re your game playing…….to make it crystal clear.
    Everyones wierd in comparison to the next person…..unless the whole world is full of conformist clones.
    Be well, Leah

  1318. maddness—this is not leah–this is becky—and why would you think that funny????

    C.H.A.O.S ?#$%^&–from the old TV series “Get Smart” ^^*(??…i would expect that from you, maddness—not espumpin…you, dear man, at times, are one sick puppy…..

  1319. Am I not feelin any love here 🙁
    sumpin youse wanna get off da chest, maybe you have words with me. eh?
    Ptt..tutooee….. in your face…..
    I challenge you to a deul..
    If the comets that struck jupiter, & the new activity of solar flares, increase the amount of production that a wood chuck, could chuck, if a wood chuck could chuck wood?

  1320. Maddness,
    It would because;
    If you give a horse peanut butter,
    it looks like it is talking.

  1321. Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled aliens.

    And little boy blew, he needed the money.

    -R-

  1322. hi, maddness–absolutely no issues with you…already told you i thought that espumpin thing was in extremely poor taste…and nothing said afterwards made one iota of sense– even me…so i choose to let it go…you said see ya on dc-9–i said okay..see ya there…perhaps we can wipe the slate clean and start again from this point…

    take care…

  1323. PNG: I know it was you who quoted religious texts but YOU are not the only one who resorts to using such texts in an attempt to …. what? Show that religion has exclusivity on all the positive human attributes?
    I wouldn’t certainly wouldn’t say science is totally positive – far from it – but it doesn’t demand the abject surrender of a person’s live to ‘the cause’ as religion does. You’ve seen the corrosive effects of the tele-evangelists in America; the willingness of ceratin Islamic leaders to sacrifice the young and easily influenced by suicide bomb; the way successive popes urged illiterate Christians to go on crusades and rid the earth of the Saracen during the Middle Ages etc. etc. It is the way they demand subjugation of the will to god, or more specifically to the local religious leader, that is truly appalling. Science is there to be used or not. Look at the way some people turn to alternative therapies rather than medicine. If you have a brain tumour what would YOU want? Some crazed hippie waving ‘life-enabling’ crystals over you or 21st century therapies? It happened recently in America [San Francisco I belive]. Onwe for the Darwin Awards I reckon.

  1324. hi, gordy–not familiar with the san francisco “crystal” thing…could you elaborate???

    i have heard of crystals being “charged”, and holding very special properties, though i have not experimented with it…so i cannot say for sure…

    take care and be well…

  1325. HandyAndy,

    Yeah, listen to what Kevin says… He is The Expert in dealing with “Science Bashers”. And like he said, if you managed to scroll through the 1500 Odd Comments, just notice how much the great man has himself contributed to this thread…

    Kevin,

    BTW, i’m not a Science Basher, but, if you are a Scientist, then i’m surely a “Scientist Basher”. Science is all about being open minded.. Experimentation, observation and research, sticking to age old formulas and following them as a blind tule is not Science…

    Why the inflated Ego dude? Why is it so difficult to accept that the ancients were scientifically more advanced than us?
    As for the Campfire, the best you can do is “check it out”, from afar, because you guys wont be allowed within miles of it… The basic criteria for attending is having a brain, that is alive, not the Hard Drives that some of you posess…

  1326. Gordy,

    Religion is not always negative…
    Its the use to which its put by us Humans makes it Negative or Positive..
    Same with Science, the knowledge of Nuclear reaction in the hands of a Terrorist Scientist is Negative, isn’t it? But does it make Science negative? No, right?
    So, how can a few religious fantics make “religion” wholly negaitve?

    Religion is nothing but Science, simplified to the level that common people can understand.. Or rather, could understand, at the time when religion was created… The problem with Religion is that it has not evolved the way it should have….

  1327. The Kolbrin bible contains startling passages that describe none other than the fly-by of Nibiru itself.

    From the ‘Book of Creation,’ Chapter Three.

    “…It is known and the story comes down from ancient times that there was not one creation but two. A creation and a recreation. It is a fact known to the wise that the Earth was utterly destroyed once then reborn on a second wheel of creation. At the time of the great destruction of Earth God caused a [celestial] dragon from outer heaven to come and encompass her about. The dragon was frightful to behold, it lashed its tail and breathed out fire and hot coals and a great catastrophe was inflicted upon mankind. The body of the dragon [Nibiru/Planet X] was wreathed in a cold bright light and beneath on the belly was a ruddy hued glow while behind it trailed a flowing tail of smoke.

    “It spewed out cinders and hot stones and its breath was fowl and stenchful poisoning the nostrils of men. Its passage caused great thundering and lightning to rend the thick darkened sky, all heaven and Earth being made hot. The seas were loosened from their cradles and rose up pouring across the land. There was an awful shrilling trumpeting which outpoured even the howling of the unleashed winds. Men stricken with terror went mad at the awful sight in the heavens.

    They were loosed from their senses and dashed about crazed not knowing what they did. The breath was sucked from their bodies and they were burned with a strange ash. Then it passed leaving Earth enwrapped with a dark and glowering mantle which was ruddily lit up inside. The bowels of the Earth were torn open and great writhing upheavals and a howling whirlwind rent the mountains apart. The wrath of the sky monster [Nibiru] was loosed in the heavens. It lashed about in flaming fury roaring like a thousand thunders. It poured down fiery destruction amid a welter of THICK BLACK BLOOD [Red ash].

    “So awesome was the fearfully aspected thing that the memory mercifully departed from Man. His thoughts were smothered under a cloud of forgetfulness….. in this manner the first Earth [Tiamat] was destroyed by calamity descending from the skies. Men and their dwelling places were gone. Only sky boulders and the red earth remained where once they were. But amidst all the desolation a few survived for Man is not easily destroyed but crept out of their caves and came down the mountain sides.

    Their eyes were wild and their limbs trembled. Their bodies shook and their calls lacked control. Their faces were twisted and their skin hung loose on their bones. They were as maddened as wild beasts driven into an enclosure before flames. They knew no law being deprived of all the wisdom they once had and those who had guided them were gone…”

  1328. In the July 15, 1999 paper published by the journal, Geophysical Research Letters, the Sahara desert’s arid climate change occurred quickly and dramatically 4000 to 3600 years ago. A team of researchers headed by Martin Cluassen of Germany’s Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact research analyzed computer models of climate over the past several thousand years. They concluded that the change to today’s desert climate in the Sahara was triggered by changes in the Earth’s orbit and the tilt of Earth’s axis. The switch in North Africa’s climate and vegetation was abrupt. In the Sahara, “we find an abrupt decrease in vegetation from a green Sahara to a desert scrubland within a few hundred years” scientists reported. No longer were grasses and other plants collecting water and releasing it back into the atmosphere; now sand baked in the stronger sun and rivers dried up. The scientists do not say what caused the change in the tilt of Earth’s axis.

  1329. An unknown civilization with an alphabet that has yet to be deciphered lived in the Indus Valley (W. Pakistan). Around 1550 BC they disappeared.

    – In the twenty-ninth year of King Chieh [the last ruler of Hsia, the earliest recorded Chinese dynasty], the Sun was dimmed… King Chieh lacked virtue… the Sun was distressed… during the last years of Chieh ice formed in [summer] mornings and frosts in the sixth month [July]. Heavy rainfall toppled temples and buildings… Heaven gave severe orders. The Sun and Moon were untimely. Hot and cold weather arrived in disorder. The five cereal crops withered and died. Written during the reign of Emperor Qin c.1600 B.C.

    – Around 1500 BC a civilization arose on the banks of the Hwang Ho River in north central China.

    – The 1st dynasty of Babylon ended in 1595 BC.

    – In the Semitic culture, Hyksos was deposed in 1570 BC, and the Jewish exodus led by Moses happened shortly thereafter. This featured a river Nile filled with “blood” and water they could not drink.

    – The Cycladic settlement on the island of Thera was destroyed by a great volcanic eruption about 1600 BC.

    – Hittite internal strife caused great disorder and ended in 1525 BC with King Telipinu.

    – China gave birth to one of the earliest civilizations and has a recorded history that dates from some 3,500 years ago.

    – Pottery pieces found in Fiji suggest the islands were settled in the west from Melanesia at least 3,500 years ago.

    – Iron manufacturing originated about 3,500 years ago when iron ore was accidentally heated in the presence of charcoal.

    – The Tongon and Samoan islands were probably settled from Fiji about 3,500 years ago.

    – The Santorini eruption (about 1500 BC) was several times greater in scope than the 1883 Krakatoa eruption.

    – Research by W. A. Johnston of the Niagara River bed disclosed that the present channel was cut by the falls less than 4000 years ago. Careful study of the Bear River delta by Hanson showed the age of this delta was 3,600 years.

    – A study by Claude Jones of the Great Lakes showed that these lakes have existed only 3,500 years. This is confirmed by several geographic historical maps of Michigan available in Michigan libraries. Gales obtained the same result on Owen Lake in California. Van Winkle obtained the same result on Albert and Summer lakes in Oregon.

    – Radiocarbon analysis by Libby also indicates that plants associated with mastodons in Mexico are probably only about 3,500 years old. Similar conclusions concerning the late survival of the Pleistocene fauna were drawn by various field workers in many parts of the American continent.

    – From observations on beaches throughout the world, Daly concluded that there was a change in the ocean level, which dropped sixteen to twenty feet 3,500 years ago. Kuenen and others confirmed Daly’s findings with evidence derived from Europe.

  1330. The above 2 posts pertain to Ecological Evidence that points to Nibiru’s passage 3600 years ago…

  1331. Dear Kevin,

    Techno stuff…..TVs, Engines etc are not representative of being knowlegable. Besides, all STUFF, biodegrades and only items made from stable precious metals e.g. Gold, and items made from minerals / stone etc, would survive for archeologists to discover.
    Past civilisations may not have been as scientifically advanced in systematically transmuting everything on Earth into Technological equiptment, and toys……but they certainly knew about the cycles of Earth.

    Today’s civilisation is one of Consumerism to the enth degree……the bigger the paycheck…..the more that individual consumes. If there is a lack of evidence re Techno stufff regarding ancient civilisations…..it could be due to having knowlege, wisdom, and therefore other methods of achieving their goals. Its a dangerous thing to assume that others want exactly what you want i.e. a TV, a Car, Skyscraper etc. Its called “Seeing the world in ones own Image”. Assumption being the Mother of all F#ck ups.
    Even right now…the needs of those living in different areas of the world vary greatly, if only due to differing climate.

  1332. Earth has her natural ongoing cycles, but has been given a good dose of Consumption, gratis man’s behaviour since industrialisation.
    We have the technology…..e.g. Plasma power stations, producing clean electricity, and potable water……..2 of which are operating successfully…….but new planned nuclear power stations worldwide will be built instead…..and we will continue to transmute materials to fuel them and they will continue to produce hazzardous waste.
    If man were truly knowlegable……the method to transmute e.g. nuclear waste into a benign substance, would have been established before the first nuclear power station was even ever built. Man has adopted “Bull in a China shop” attitude, to hell with the consequences.
    It would be a whole different story, if life was much longer, and the consequences did have to be weathered, and not left for future generations to do so. Sins of the fathers, visited on the sons etc……

  1333. Dear Kevin,

    We cannot forget that everything we do know today, is built upon knowlege accumulated in and from the past. Pythagoras, Plato etc belong to ancient times…….can’t be picky re ancient civilisations having knowlege, when it suits, and not when it doesn’t.
    There is such a thing as aquiring knowlege for the purpose of knowing / understanding alone……and not for using, such as for making money. Just because certain knowlege was not applied by ancient civilisations, does not mean they didn’t have that knowlege. Just because one knows how to do, doesn’t automatically mean one HAS to do.
    Be well, Leah

  1334. Religion is NOT science. It is the antithesis of science. Religion deals with faith in the unprovable. Science deals with the provable by experiment and theory.
    science doesn’t set out to prove religion either. That is the province of metaphysics.

  1335. The first post about the dragon sounds like a description of a bolide breaking up as it travels through the atmosphere before impact.

  1336. The post at 9:35 regarding China sounds very much like the aftermath of a large volcanic eruption. Similar effects were seen in Northern Europe following the huge split in the crust and resulting volcanic outflows in Iceland in 1815[?].

  1337. Paul,

    There is no true definition for a Bolide, it could be a rocky/metallic asteroid or an icy comet… And a Bolide has never been heard to cause so much havoc as evidenced by the passage…

  1338. A Tunguska-type body entering the atmosphere at a shallow angle can account for the observed effects. Ditto a small comet.

  1339. The Great Lakes in North America are immediate post-glacial in age and origin. They date from no later than 10,000 BCE/8,000BC.
    Ceratinly some of the mega fauna of N. & S America appear to have existed into early historical times rather than having disappeared in pre-history. There were unconfirmed accounts of a herd of pygmy mammoths living on a couple of uninhabited islands off the nothern coast of Russia within the past 500 years.
    Mummified [natural] remains of the Giant Ground Sloth were found in a cave in Tierra del Fuego that appeared to be between 2 & 3 thousand years old.
    The consenus is that the global sea levels rose during much of the time you quote. Any local sea level drops are most likely the result of isostatic readjustment eg. Scandinavia, northern Scotland, Canada, which of course still goes on.

  1340. AMIT: There is no, repeat NO evidence whatsoever that the ‘ancients’ as you call them had technology or science as advanced let alone more advanced than we do. Where are their internal combustion engines?, where are their aeroplanes?, where is the evidence for their advanced surgical techniques?, skyscrapers?, water-pumping stations? radio and t.v. stations/transmitters? Nowhere. Why? Because they didn’t have the science, the ideas or the technology. Go ask an archaeologist. Oh, you have. Me.

  1341. I agree Leah engines etc are not necesarally representative of knowledge but m’lado Amit bangs on about the ancients wonderful science and technology.For which there is no evidence, physical or literary. Leave the ancients to their graves and stop dragging them around every time someone wants to explain the seemingly inexplicable.

  1342. I’d love to see the evidence for this knowledge of the ancients. That is clear, unequivocal evidence not something that can be interpreted as whatever suits their particular bent by whomsoever.

  1343. Kevin, You say there is no Physical/Literary Evidence for the knowledge posessed by the Ancients??? Well, you have not read all our posts, so you can be forgiven for this statement….
    Literary Evidence is in abundance, but you guys call it crap and myth… Physical Evidence has no chance of surviving the churn of the Earth’s Crust… But, still there are monuments.. Well, a lot has been discussed about them, no use dragging on about them when your only reply is “Denial”…

  1344. Paul,

    Here is more… There is more evidence, but thsi time it points to a crossing ~7200 years ago..

    According to Basil Davidson, author of Lost Cities of Africa, new types of humanity appeared in Africa around 5,000 BC

    – According to Ancient Europe by Stuart Pigget, stone using agricultural peasantry began in Europe near 5,000 BC

    – According to December 17, 1996 New York Times article titled Black Sea Deluge May Be Tied to Spread of Farming in Europe, an international team of geologists and oceanographers reconstructed the history of a catastrophic flood from data gathered by a Russian research ship in 1993. Seismic soundings and sediment cores revealed traces of the sea’s former shorelines, showing an abrupt 500-foot rise in water levels. Radiocarbon dating of the transition from fresh water to marine organisms in the cores put the time of the event at about 7,700 years ago (5,500 BC).

    – According to the September 10, 1996 issue of the Seattle Times: the research ship JOIDES (Joint Oceanographic Institutions for the Deep Earth Sampling) Resolution “could easily see the light colored ash deposited from the eruption of Oregon’s Mount Mazama 6,950 years ago. That titanic eruption created Crater Lake and threw out at least 40 times as much magma as Mount St. Helens did in 1980 and serves as a useful marker to date mud layers. JOIDES is a Hubble telescope for the ocean, the most advanced drilling vessel in the world”. It has 12 laboratories, more than 100 research computers and can drill in water up to 27,000 feet deep. “The planet appears to operate in a quasi-stable mode and pops up to a new state,” said NSF’s Corell.

    – A giant wave flooded Scotland about 7,000 years ago, a scientist revealed on Friday. The tsunami left a trail of destruction along what is now the eastern coast of the country. Scientists believe a landslide on the ocean floor off Storegga, southwest Norway, triggered the wave. Speaking at the British Association Festival of Science in Glasgow, Professor David Smith said a tsunami could strike again in the area but the probability was extremely unlikely. Radiocarbon dating of sediments taken from the coastline of eastern Scotland put the date of the event at about 5,800 BC. At the time, Britain was joined to mainland Europe by a land bridge. Settlers at the time would have had little warning of the disaster, scientists believe. But a scattering of tools found in the sand at a hunting camp in Inverness yields some clues. ‘Very destructive’ “It looks as if those people were happily sitting in their camp when this wave from the sea hit the camp,” Professor Smith of the department of Geography at Coventry University told BBC News Online. “We’re talking about two, three or four large waves followed by little ones, that would have been 5-10 meters high. “These waves do strike with such force that they are very destructive,” he added. “It’s like being hit by an express train.”

    The research provides an opportunity to assess the hazard of tsunamis in more detail. They occur frequently in the Pacific Ocean due to underwater earthquakes, landslides and volcanic explosions. Long, uncertain history Scientists hope to find more evidence of similar past tsunamis in eastern Scotland to predict the frequency of the destructive waves. Studies of coastal sediments show that it may be possible to develop a record of past tsunamis extending back several millennia. Dr Ted Nield, of the Geological Society of London, said: “These events have a long and uncertain time scale. While there is no reason for mass panic, the possibility exists that the Storegga slide will go again, and it would be imprudent to ignore that fact.”

  1345. Yes Amit I have read your posts and the ‘evidence’ you cite is dubious at best but is nearly all rubbish or unprovable. It IS myth and legend and has been mis-interpreted by those who want it to show evidence of aliens.

  1346. You quote the prehistoric tsunami off the coast of Scotland. Yes it occurred but what is your point? Ditto the other confirmed catastrophes and inundations.

  1347. The earth’s crust hasn’t ‘churned’ to that extent in the geographical areas were you seem to think the aliens helped out. If the pyramids and ziggurats can survive then so would alien artifacts. Get your story straight.

  1348. Kevin,

    These monuments were built to survive the tests of time… But had they known that their signs will be rejected/ignored so disdainfully now, they would not have bothered to labor so…

    And regarding the confirmed catastrophes, doesn’t the cyclic nature appeal to your mind? If we dont go by the Timescale, these may seem stray, unrelated incidents. But when you have a certain point of reference, you are bound to put 2 and 2 together, right? Isn’t it human nature after all??

  1349. Jeez. Niburu AGAIN?????? I thought Paul had explained that one away months ago. Try again and try to make it simple Paul. I’m ‘merely’ a fan of science and astronomy not an expert and I understood what he said.

  1350. good stuff, amit—

    apparently no one played “connect-a-dot” when they were kids…you find and start with #1, draw a line to #2, then to #3, and so on and so on…and when you are all done–you have a picture!!! imagine that!!!

  1351. Unfortunately there are NO numbered dots to connect to form any sort of picture. There are unconnected bits of ‘evidence’ that are rammed together in a very dubious way in order to produce a picture that the deluded want to see. The tragic thing is that an awful lot of REAL wonderful artifacts, writings etc are subsumed and overlain by crap and lose their inherent worth and relevence.
    It is NOT good stuff. It is a perversion of the truth.

  1352. Oh dear. Becky is back spouting juvenille nothings in her continuing attempts at philosophy. I’m surprised Gordy hasn’t mentioned putting them on his bulletin board.

  1353. Evidence in its broadest sense includes everything that is used to determine or demonstrate the TRUTH of an assertion. Giving or procuring evidence is the process of using those things that are either a) presumed to be true, or b) were themselves proven via evidence, to demonstrate an assertion’s truth. Evidence is the currency by which one fulfills the burden of TRUTH.
    Fact- Newtons laws have survived 500+ yrs
    Jesus’ laws 2000+
    Even inside the sciences the word theory picks out several different concepts dependent on the context. In casual speech scientists don’t use the term theory in a particularly precise fashion, allowing historical accidents to determine whether a given body of scientific work is called a theory, law, principle or something else. For instance Einstein’s relativity is usually called “the theory of relativity” while Newton’s theory of gravity often is called “the law of gravity.” In this kind of casual use by scientists the word theory can be used flexibly to refer to whatever kind of explanation or prediction is being examined. It is for this instance that a scientific theory is a claim based on a body of evidence.
    So you say religion is a contradiction in it self? I say they lied to you about Science as much as they lied about Religion. And what do you all do? Pick up a different book thinking, this one must have the answers.
    You fighting to prove your right, is what makes you wrong. How can you be in awe of the universe, and not give appreciation to the creator. A deity responsible for creating the universe, or does that humble you too much, to accept?

  1354. different eyes see different things, handy andy–it is not perversion–it is perspective…

  1355. steve f–thank you for kindly acknowledging my “juvenile nothings”…they stem from the fact that i am a “child” of the most-high God, and still have much to learn…they do not, however, disqualify me from being here…

    best wishes–be well…

  1356. Steve F,

    If you label Becky’s posts as Juvenile Nothings, what are yours then?? They are not even juvenile, they are “Absolute” nothing…..

    You are just one of Gordy’s Cronies….. You are better suited to be fixed to his Notice Board. THAT would amuse people…..

  1357. Becky,

    That was a Good Point about perspective….
    But dont bother to explian to them. I put these guys on the same level as the folks who are screaming “End of The World” …. They are equal in their level of ignorance, although on opposite ends…

  1358. Maddness,

    That was a nice post! Much Wisdom…Didn’t i always say that there is a “Method to Maddness” …
    BTW, how can you expect these guys to believe in a creator?? They are busy in their quest to become Gods themselves…. They put Science above everything else, without realising that there is a Singularity whose Science is way more advanced than they can imagine….
    Just look at Earth and Moon… When one half of the Earth faces away from the Sun, we have the moon to provide light there… Just imagine the accuracy required in Moon’s Orbit and position to enable this?? Isn’t it amazing? How can one not be awed by these things and not realise that there is an intelligent mind behind this?? When you see a Plastic Rose, you immediately say, how nice, a skilled person must have made it. But when you see a Real Rose, how can you say that it is “automatic” , resulting from a random design?
    They say Evolution, i say where is Evolution now? Why dont we see Monkeys evolving anymore?

  1359. “He is the God who sits in the center, on the navel of the earth, and he is the interpreter of the religion to all mankind.” – Plato.

  1360. “I am enough of an artist to draw freely upon my imagination. Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world” –
    Albert Einstein

  1361. Just so its clear…this blog is about Geomagnetic reversal and 2012. 2012 having come to attention because of the Mayan calendar. It therefore automatically includes history etc from the past.
    Ancient civilisations had different perspectives and contexts in which they recorded events. It is for us today to understand those perspectives and contexts, in order to understand cleary, what is being conveyed.

  1362. Dear Paul,

    Re your 7.19 post. If we really believed that only that which the human senses can detect, truly exists……we’d still be living in caves.

    The spectrum, or frequency waveband width within which the human senses operate, are very narrow compared to animals……but we are the only species that questions what we sense and perceive. Our curiosity lead us to conceive of good questions and then to design experiments and build equiptment with which to detect that which is beyond the waveband widths of our senses.

    First though, there had to be the theory, notion, idea, or partial belief in the possibility of something’s existance, before an experiment could even be designed, in order to prove or disprove.
    It is the reaching for the extra ordinary……that is the driving force of science……the wish to discover and understand everything, no matter how extra ordinary the findings may prove to be.
    The concept of Radio and radio waves would have been thought of as some kind of black magic, not so very long ago in our history……not to mention electricity.

    So it is necessary to at least believe in the possibility, before one can hope to see.
    Be well, Leah

  1363. Handy Andy,

    You assume too much…..not all are writing here in English as their native language. This is an international blog.
    Leah

    There are a fair few writing here that need to retrieve their manners from the toilet, having obviously flushed them away, along with the ability to respect. That is if they ever had any manners in the first place.

    Aside from Paul, other so called professionals and scientists have brought NOTHING, no ideas or possibilities….other than the ability to argue / fight, and be insulting. The most to date has been…”There won’t be a geomagnetic reversal in 2012…..or…..more of the same”…..no why…..nothing….nada.
    You call yourselves educated and civilised ? By behaving in this manner here, proves you’re argumentative and contrare by nature, irrespective of your behaviour when face to face with people.
    I for one, do not look forward to a future designed by the “educated types here”…..one that is conformist……agree to everything you say, or be condemned.

  1364. Not believing in a supreme being doesn’t equate with not being humble enough to admit it. It seems absolutely ludicrous to think that something like it exists. One might just as well believe in th existance of fairies, trolls, goblins etc.

  1365. Using quotes from great men such as Plato and Einstein when they mention god and religion doesn’t make it the truth or inbue it with profound insight. Greatness doesn’t imply infallibility. Einstein stuffed up in a big way over quantum theory didn’t he?

  1366. The moon’s orbit changes over time so it’s mere chance that it appears as it does today. Therefore ‘accuracy’ doesn’t enter into the discussion.
    All primates evolved from the same ancestor not monkeys to orangutans to gorilla to chimp to bonobo to human. Have you even read a book on evolution?

  1367. Owain,

    I just used Monkey as a symbolic…. But why is Evloution so choosy?? The ancient primates evolved into Humans, but why are the present primates evolving too?? They occupy almost the same timeline as humans but they are still on their starting level.. Why? Reading books on evolution might give you knwoledge, but that wont teach you to ask questions… You need an open mind to ask questions….

  1368. So, Moon’s orbit is random…. Mere chance!! Wow! Some chance that…..

    You mean to say that in some time, we might see Sun and Moon on the same side of the Earth , right??

    What do you have to say about poition? Another chance? Do you know that if it was any nearer, what impact would it make on the oceans/seas??

  1369. Owain,

    Did the Enstein quote i posted say anything about God or Religion??? Read again dude! And read carefully, spell the words aloud, that might help your comprehension….

    That quote abot Imagination targets people like you only, who just drown themselves under heaps of knowledge and taper their brains so much with it that the right questions dont come out…

  1370. To be afraid to touch on any subject….even with a barge pole, because ones friends / collegues / peers would think less of one, is to succumb to peer pressure and the opinions of the group……popular belief…..irrespective of whether the group is correct or incorrect in its beliefs.

    There always has to be the 1st one that proposes a new theory…….which by deffinition will make them unpopular for some time…..until others choose to look into such new theories.
    M theory, Great Impact theory, even Darwin’s Evolution theory……pooh poohed for a long time……because they were not condusive with popular belief…..in particular the belifs of their peers.
    Now they are accepted. It is the norm to be against new theories and ideas in the first instance……as most feel threatened by them.
    Posturing.

  1371. We see the sun and the moon on the same side of the earth whenever there’s a solar eclipse. They are also on the same side once every month. We don’t get an eclipse every month because the moon’s orbit is not in the plane of the earth’s equator. It is inclined by, I think, 17*.
    As Paul replied to Leah some time ago the moon was much closer to the earth on geological history and is steadily moving away at a rate of 1-3 cm per year. With the moon being nearer in the past tides would have been far, far higher than at present probably as much as ten times greater and would have swept into bays and esturaries much quicker as well.
    We happen to be at a point in the earth’s history where the sun and moon appear to be the same size in the sky – hence of total solar eclipse. Earlier in our history the moon’s image would have exceeded the apparent diameter of the sun. In the future as it moves away it won’t cover the sun so our descendants will only ever see what is called an annular eclipse. May I point you any good astronomy book for the explanation if you doubt the word of someone from the other side.
    By the way I wasn’t particularly directing the post about Einstein & Plato back to you. However haven’t you used Einstein’s quote about god no playing dice with the universe in a previous post?

  1372. The recent responses, from e.g. Amit and Rico, are but reactions to the ones resorting to name calling as a deffence to subjects being discussed, that they are either not interested in or ignorant of…..even intimidated by.
    BTW, telekenesis and telepathy etc…….garbage that many tax funds are spent on researching.

  1373. As far as evolution of humans/hominids or any animal is concerned most organisms change due to environmental pressure or change. The huge ‘jump’ in hominid evolution 4-6 million years ago wasin response to the drying out of the climate and the reduction in forset/jungle cover where hominids had felt safe, secure etc with abundant food, cover and a relatively easy existance. As grasslands expanded they were forced to change their lifestyle re: food, organisation etc. In order to watch out for predators they adopted an upright stance as they could no longer view from the trees. [Look how Meercats stand on their hind ligs for long periods of time while the rest of the troop feed]. With their primary source of food, fruit, leaves etc, dwindling they sort alternaatives – firstly carrion, lame animals and finally hunting them down. This increase in protein intake spurred brain and body development, hands were left free to fashion crude tools and the brain was then able to direct itself to tool-making and ultimately abstract thought. Given a million years it is not at all surprising. Don’t get fooled into thinking or assuming that everything happens quickly.[even though a million years is an eye blink in geological time]

  1374. Gordy, there are only 1452 days until 12-21-2012. We should get together and play with each other. Rugby of course.

  1375. Why don’t you check on past posts…..
    Nov 4th 2008 8.20am re almost wishing a catastrophe to sweep away for ever certain types.

    Thats where it began…..others followed.

  1376. amit-as always–thank you for your kindness and support…muchly appreciated..

    i had another rather obscure thought, regarding “perspective”…

    if someone were to place an apple on a round table, and asked everyone in this group to stand around the table and make an observation on the apple…it occurred to me that everyone would have something different to say regarding that apple…it would NOT, however change, alter, or eliminate the fact that it was, in deed, still the SAME apple we ALL were looking at….

    it’s all in PERPSECTIVE…

    thanks for letting me share…

    best wishes

  1377. The trouble with perspective is that it is personal. However it would change the fact that the apple was still an apple and the table was still a table. Perspective wouldn’t change those facts. What WOULD change due to perspective is what each person would see in front of and beyond/behind the apple and table. What they saw would still be known rather than unknown e.g. curatins, windows, other people etc. I think you’re being just a little, shall we say naugthy, in trying to tie the idea of perspective in this sense with the general tenor of the present discussions.

  1378. Yo Amit. So a series of disjointed, non-sequiturs and random, incomplete sentences posing as philosophical insights is worth more than the scientists here who have replied with evidence, counter-argument and facts like Paul and Owain? Admittedly they have all resorted to name calling and in some csaes abuse. I haven’t seen one post from Becky either putting forward arguments for ‘your side’ or anything like a cogent dismissal of the ‘scientists’ arguments. Merely stream-of-consciousness rambling.

  1379. paul–point well taken…however, the curtains, windows, other people, etc would still be there—some just choose not to see them…or let them enter into the equation of observing the apple…what are we there to observe–the apple or its surroundings???

  1380. You come into a discussion about the refutation of the geo-magnetic reversal propounded by the catastrophists and immediately start ranting on about the bloody Mayans, Nibiru, Planet X, alien genetic manipulation etc none of which has any prove, except the Maya of course, and when asked to provide some, any, proof come up with Sitchin, Velikovsky and clay tablets from Sumer which were and remain the detailed accounts of harvests, beer production, diplomatic discussions, and epics [I believe]. Nothing of a scientific or historical nature is provided to back up your groups’ wild ranting ideas. I won’;t dignify them with the word theories even if Paul, Owain and Gordy occasionally do.

  1381. Seeing and acknowledging what is in front of ones eyes is entirely different to being asked to believe in something for which there is no evidence. It’s not really a question of perspective. As I’ve said before I do believe in some of the things AMIT/Rico like alien life but it’s out there. Until I read or see prove to the contrary I will continue to say they haven’t visited here and certainly haven’t genetically altered us. It’s not a question of an inability to admit it because of fear, being to proud, too fantastic etc. Why reach for the extra-ordinary when very often the prosaic and mundane is the actual answer.

  1382. Ha Amit. Perhaps if you read or spelled out the words before you bashed them out you’d write them correctly. I imagine you move your lips as you read so it shouldn’t be difficult.
    Regarding an open mind. Yours seems so closed with regard to the body of knowledge scientific or otherwise. It seems it’s a case of “I don’t accept or understand the scientific/cultural/historical answer therefore I’ll reach for the supernatural, the unprovable, the alien. Much better than striving for a real explanation as the fantastical is more comforting”. The trouble with having a mind too open is that all sorts of crap flows through and sticks. But you and your cronies seem to think that having such an open mind is something to be proud of.

  1383. Leah: And where on the spectrum of civility would you place the recent responses by Amit and, in particular, Rico? As Gordy and Owain have said at NO time have the scientists resorted to toilet insults or toilet language. Blockheads, knuckle-draggers, fools, imbeciles etc – yes language from the sports filed and toilet – no.
    As for conformists – again hardly. Science and intellectual enquiry BUILDS on the status quo and moves forward as a result of the knowledge gained. I don’t want to speak for the scientists here but I don’t think they have ever said, “agree with what I say or be condemned”. If they were conformists then they would still believe in an earth centred cosmolgy Science in general deals with the provable and sometimes, often even, speculative ideas but wild speculation devalues the subject. As someone said previously much speculation on alien visitation, telekenesis, telepathy etc is buried beneath so much garbage as to be hidden completely or is so closely tied to the lunatic fringe that any scientist who wants to remain credible wouldn’t touch it with a barge-pole. A future designed as you put it by educated types in far more preferable than one designed by lunatics. Whether lunatics actually includes anyone here I’m not too sure.

  1384. Ah, so it’s ok for them to use ‘toilet’ language and abuse in excess of what they were called because they were called names first is it? The fact that the ‘scientists’ haven’t used that sort of language or responded to it doesn’t enter in to your reasoning. You seem to be content with foul language hurled one way because you perceive Amit and Rico as the victims. Interesting.

  1385. I wanna qoute Owin, 1) As Paul replied to Leah some time ago the moon was much closer to the earth on geological history and is steadily moving away at a rate of 1-3 cm per year.??? you think that is true? & not God? Where’d you or Paul get that? from a book? Who, what ,where did the 0 point start, before it started to move away? How much time before its gone? is there a timetable, to prepare future generations and who told you this sh*t is true??? C’mon, every year it moves back, and we’re getting increases in hurricanes?? WTF, how can that make sense to you. Thats as stupid as Bush invading iraq, and gas went up. you invade a country with oil & gas goes up??? The moon is moving 1.7cm away from us and hurricaines are gone get worse??? okay maybe I miss spelled some words, but that sh*t sounds stupid. But hey no offence 😉 You have the right to your opinion. But if you try to say thats science!!!!! 🙂 HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  1386. 2) As far as evolution of humans/hominids or any animal is concerned most organisms change due to environmental pressure or change. Then there is no bigfoot or lochness. Cuz we would’ve seen them run out there hiding places. I wonder why Gorillas and elephants don’t kill man on site? We’ve been poaching, killing their kind for fur since the stone age. Guess mankind is lucky they can’t sharpen anything with aposeable thumbs or have good memories.
    Wish I had more time….Be back with more

  1387. This post attributed to me, was not sent by me.
    I did not send this post.

    No Really, it was not me.

  1388. wanna qoute Owin, 1) As Paul replied to Leah some time ago the moon was much closer to the earth on geological history and is steadily moving away at a rate of 1-3 cm per year.??? you think that is true? & not God? Where’d you or Paul get that? from a book? Who, what ,where did the 0 point start, before it started to move away? How much time before its gone? is there a timetable, to prepare future generations and who told you this sh*t is true??? C’mon, every year it moves back, and we’re getting increases in hurricanes?? WTF, how can that make sense to you. Thats as stupid as Bush invading iraq, and gas went up. you invade a country with oil & gas goes up??? The moon is moving 1.7cm away from us and hurricaines are gone get worse??? okay maybe I miss spelled some words, but that sh*t sounds stupid. But hey no offence You have the right to your opinion. But if you try to say thats science!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

  1389. sorry didn’t mean to print twice, speechless not thinking right, more thoughts than process. I know makes no sense!!!!!!!!

  1390. Madness. In the early 1990’s it was proposed that a Mars-size body struck the earth around 4.5 billion years ago and the resulting debris coalesced to form the moon. At that point it was VERY close to the earth and as a result of tidal interaction it has moved further and further away from the earth. This theory has more or less been confirmed be analysis of moon rocks that have an identical geochemeical signature to the crustal rocks of the earth. The process by which this conclussion was reached is called scientific research. You may have heard of this process. If you don’t trust the evidence found in books then look on the internet. We all know the the truth exists there, don’t we?

  1391. Yes please Madness. Come back with more nonesense. Btw, there isn’t a monster in Loch Ness.
    Why do you think that elephants and gorillas should have started killing humans? Besides environmental pressures evolution is spured by the opportunity to fill an empty niche. Look how the mammals proliferated once the dinosaurs vanished. There was an opportunity for herbivorous and carnivorous mammals to fill the gap left. There would have little or no pressure from top predators for tens of thousands of years.

  1392. The artichokes at midnight rumble a warning ….. Be careful not to wander down the wrong trouser-leg of time…. The loaves of love lumber across the roads by day….Beware the whispering clouds of disparaging youth….. Beyond the mountains lie the plains… In the sky there are stars…… The wind of time is blowing through me… I drink Quink ink and think blue thoughts…. Marginalised dwarves shouldn’t be ignored…
    The Blethpig Street Runners have run their course……. What shall we do with a drunken sailor….. I believe our children are the future…… Needle nardle noo….
    Ying tong iddle I poh

  1393. Why do I keep posting things I did not post?

    Once again the post attributed to me, wasn’t me.

  1394. No one is in total absolute control of e.g. Space, or the Climate……so where are the hard and fast proven guarantees that geomagnetic reversal will not occur during the next 4 years ?

    Likewise with Near Earth Objects effecting Earth…..keeping in mind not all such objects have been detected…..far from it…… Which among you has hard core PROOF that none will effect Earth in the next 4 years ?

    Which among you have hard core PROOF that Solar Maximum in 2012 will not have adverse effects on Earth ?

    No votes, opinions or preferences thank you…..just hard core proof.

  1395. I see that Madness missed his turn with the foil hat again. Been licking the lead- based paint on your walls have you?

  1396. In the early 1990’s it was proposed that a Mars-size body struck the earth around 4.5 billion years ago and the resulting debris coalesced to form the moon. ???
    This makes sense??? and not Niburu or whatever doing the same thing??
    Besides environmental pressures evolution is spured by the opportunity to fill an empty niche??? Re-read that, read what you wrote. Now think about, if you don’t get….I do not need to waste the time explaining. Seriously,
    I can’t even agree to disagree… Sorry, No offence but at least i call myself madness. some of you should call yourself Doubtful. 😉

  1397. And of corse there are no Bigfoot or Lochness, just like the moon isn’t moving away or we are not random acts of nature. All four subjects have strong followings, proof that can discredit and back up each claims. And followers who are so die-hard they won’t hear anything to the contrary to their belief.
    And as I stated before the relationship between belief and knowledge is subtle. Believers in a claim typically say that they know that claim.

  1398. steve f–amidst all your virtues, also lies cowardess…you have yet to address me, directly…you talk ABOUT me like i’m not even here…

    your “cheap ricochet shots” are missing their target…grow some gonads and address me directly…

    you will NEVER get a profound mathmatic, scientific, or astrological statement from me… why? one might ask??

    because #1–i have never been any of the above…2#–i have no aspirations to be any of the above, and #3–will NEVER be any of the above…

    what degree to you hold that entitles you to your beligerance and arrogance??? why do you think that paper on your wall makes you special??? i am here to help myself learn…and God forbid, i be of support or encouragement to any others trying to find their way@@#$%^&(…you know absolutely NOTHING about me, and apparently human nature…if you are a “leader of our scientific community”—GOD HELP US ALL…

    #$%^ @#$ !!! …AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN ON!!!!!

  1399. …MY MOST SINCERE APOLOGIES TO EVERYONE ELSE…i have had my belly full of this man…i feel much better now…please forgive my rude interruption…

    maddness—you were saying…????

  1400. I haven’t ever claimed to be a scientist or whatever with a piece of paper on my wall as I don’t have them. I’m not a professional but just an amateur with a great love of science and what it can bring. You are quite right Becky you haven’t brought anything scientific, mathematical or astrological [I assume you mean ASTRONOMICAL by the way]] to the discussion. In fact all you have brought is mindless meandering thoughts some like to think of as philosophy or deep and hidden insights. As they mean nothing then that’s why it seems others and I talk about your drivel as though you weren’t there.
    Once all the crap you and your loose group stops then perhaps I’ll be able to put in some thoughts myself but it’s so difficult to add comments to the core subject when all we see is rubbish, spurious science, bollocks masquerading as science and general blathering.
    IS that direct enough for you? See, gonads attached.

  1401. then..oh, head guru–show us the error of our ways!!!!! give us something fresh to chew on!!!!! seems we are stuck in a rut…enlighten us with what you know…don’t let our “drabble” divert you…

  1402. Madness: If you care to look back a few weeks you’ll see that Leah and Amit, I think, asked about the origin of the moon, length of the day back billions of years ago, ancient tides etc. They listened quietly to the answer provided by Paul [?] and generally accepted his explanation and then asked further astronomical questions they wanted answers to. Rico as well if I recall correctly. They seem fairly reasonable people and the only issues I’ll take up arms against is their belief in aliens interfering with our genes and helping build giant structures. That issue is not likely to be sorted out any time soon I reckon. You on the other hand are barking mad and like Becky bring nothing of substance to the table. Perhaps you 2 should hook up and exchange your drivelling thoughts. Just an idea.

  1403. The word was DRIVEL. It has become favourite word of mine since I started looking in here. Guru? Certainly not. As I said, I’m an amateur and interested in science. What would you like to talk about? Take your pick there’s lots out there in the astronomical, historical, geological world. You decide.

  1404. Hoo-bloody-ray for Steve F. At last somebody has taken the bull by the horns and said what loads of us here no doubt think. There are times when being polite doesn’t get through the thick skins of the self-deluding and brain dead. Perhaps I won’t lurk as much now espacially as there is the possiblity of a discussion about science and science related topics. Well done again Steve.

  1405. going back to the core theme of this thread–“no geomagnetic reversal”—please tell me what you know with ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY…we have been discussing theories and ideas…thought that was what this was all about—and since i am devoid of science or “ASTRONOMICAL” thoughts, i have not much left to offer…except that EVERYTHING IS RELATIVE…and i am trying to connect all the dots for me…if i have a true “eurika moment” FOR ME…why not share it??? who or what does it hurt??? where is the crime here??? the only crime i see is the blatant intolerance displayed for others thoughts and ideas presented in this forum… is that philiosphical enough for you, steve f???? or should i go on????

    NO ONE HERE IS RIGHT OR WRONG!!! nor will anyone EVER BE unless all avenues are considered or explored…oh, sorry–there goes that philosophy thing again…you call it
    drivel”…i call it a possibility…you call it gargabe and rubbish–i say dig a little deeper…you look through a telescope or microscope–i say look at the big picture, or at least change the focal point a little…

    …and again i ask you–who or what is it hurting???

    just because i cannot add anything substantial, does not mean i do not understand…and do not think for one second that i have a blatant disregard for science–quite the contrary!!!!! i love science–and all that it brings to the table…but that does not mean i have to accept as gospel all that it presents…let’s make that perfectly clear…there are more questions that there are answers…there is no such thing as a “stupid question” if i do not know the answer…so perhaps the crux of the whole thing here is that no one has definitive answers…and until those questions are answered WITH ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY, i am sure these debates will rage on…

    but with a little more respect and kindness, please…i do not fault anyone for what they believe to be true, and all i ask for is the same consideration…

    that common consideration requires no philosophy!!!

    thank you, and forgive me for all my faults–as i have already forgiven you, steve f…

    take care, and please be well…

  1406. Ah Freddie. A fan of The Goons AND Hawkwind! You should have said so earlier. Not posted for a while as been busy with stuff.
    BTW Amit. I’m working on a response to your post, the last one \I think, where you mentioned something about Nibiru moving into the inner solar system. Not a rant but an explanation about gravity etc.
    Back to the grindstone.

  1407. By all means explore and learn but don’t post a random selection of disconnected ramblings that refer to nothing. It’s a waste of electrons.

  1408. again–who or what does it hurt????? so sorry for crampin your “air space”, buddy–but i will not go away…you know absolutely nothing about what lives in the hearts of anyone but yourself…

  1409. Back to the beginning I see. Geomagnetic reversal does happen. Fact. Geomagnetic reversal takes place over many thousands, even hundreds of thousands of years. It does NOT take place over the space of FOUR years. Even though the mag. pole is wandering as we speak it will not suddenly flip. Fact.

  1410. At solar max the space weather does affect the earth’s magnetic field by compressing it from the outside [the bit that is in space]. It does affect communications and com. sats. It does NOT, and NEVER has caused/initiated/started a geomagnetic reversal.
    In one demented post you try to undermine the hard work of generations of geophysicists, astronomers, geologists and associated scientists. Shocking.
    Many people here have said, and I will repeat it, pick up a book on astronomy and read the science.

  1411. Becky. You use the word ‘amateur’ as a term of abuse. Why? Amateurs in many fields especially astronomy and even sport have brought many discoveries and broken records. Some of us wear the badge of amateur with pride and humility. You are as equally disparaging of those you can’t understand as those you claim are abusing and don’t understand you. You are in fact no better than Steve F.

  1412. Andy,

    I had separated the 3 examples of ……Geomagnetic reversal, Near Earth objects and Solar Maximum into different paragraphs……and did not intimate the two latter would cause geomagnetic reversal.

    You are assuming that its impossible for the hundreds of thousands of years leading upto a magnetic pole shift, to be in the past….check out data re stats in recent years.

    Respectfully suggest reading latest published papers by scientists, wrather than books published years ago…….as with new incoming data and therefore understanding data requires constant updating.

    BTW, on any given day one can read Scientific papers on e.g. global warming versus cooling…..and the dangers that both represent to life on Earth. Both sides really do have extensive proofs…….but can’t both be right concurrently, but are consecutively.
    Trick is to establish which is accurate now.

    I celebrate those that call themselves amateur…….independants with a love of learning, unencumbered by money as the goal. Knowlege and wisdom being the only goal.
    Be well, Leah

  1413. andy–you are ABSOLUTELY RIGHT–i am NO BETTER than anyone else…i used his own words…i really don’t care what anyone’s
    “status” is…amateur, professional, or a big nobody like me—i don’t care about status!!!!one does not need a “status” to learn…

    but no one is entitled to disrespect others…especially and including myself…these may only be words on a screen, but they can be are hurtful…and for some, very undeserving, and very discouraging… you don’t just sign in here, with guns blazing, taking pot shots at the first person you don’t agree with…shoot first–ask questions later??? sorry… that is very amateur when dealing with people you don’t even know…

    i put up with you for over a week, steve f, before i said anything to you about the way you treat me and refer to me…
    …no more!!!
    i may be wounded, but i’m not dead yet!!!

    not you or anybody else will divert me from my primary purpose—and that is to learn!!!!!

    arrogance has NEVER been my forte’…and if i came across that way, i am truly sorry…but i have had ENOUGH!!!!!

    … and this is the last time i will address this issue…

    there are SO MANY OTHER important things that could and should be discussed…

    thank you all, once again, for your kind indulgence of me…be well and stay well…

    i am…humbly and respectfully,

  1414. As I said previously, by all means learn but don’t hitch your waggon to the unproven which is what the likes of Amit and co have done.
    The scientists here have said that proof takes time to tease out. Amit and friends appear to be in a great rush to find answers so grab the first thing that says, “I am the answer” even if it’s not provable. They want to be the custodians of secret lore cos it makes them special

  1415. Hi folks.To PNG – Arrogance through learning over arrogance through ignorance every time.
    Contribute or push off.

  1416. You stay away for a few days and everything picks up again. Still a load of crap from the anti-science brigade and nothing reall y to comment on except they seem not to have read the explanations on the astro questions.

  1417. andy–thank you for acknowledging me…perhaps that is part of my problem…my wagons aren’t “hitched” to anything…just yet…

    thanks you so much again…please be well…

  1418. and, yes, andy, we all know that proof takes time…we’re just not all asking the same questions….

    thanks again…

  1419. Arrogance over shadows wisdom, Arrogance through learning over Arrogance through Ignorance every time, equals Wisdom.
    Now thats a neat quote.

  1420. hi, Persona non Grata!!! how are ya??? it boggles the mind, doesn’t it???

    nothing to say, today, except best wishes to you all!!! hope everyone is well…please take care…be well,and stay well…

  1421. For the people here who doubt the evidence of evolution may I point you to a programme on BBC 1 tonight, Sunday, at 21:00 called ‘Charles Darwin and The Tree of Life’. For those outside the UK it can be accessed on the BBC iPlayer. It might straighten many things out for you.

  1422. Andy,

    I knew that you would be quick to pick faults in my spellings, because there is nothing else to find faults.. If i were to do such nitpicking in your posts, i am sure i will find as many typos there, if not more.
    You would do well to limit your arguments within the reasonable boundaries.
    And reagrding the use of bad language and all, i agree with Leah. I dont see myself or Rico as victims, but neither did we start the fire.. We are just following the principle of “Tit for Tat” …

  1423. Steve F,

    You got a new fan. Your chest must have swelled to double its size seeing the back thumping from Funkmaster…
    You took the bull by horns, great job!!
    You had the guts to say the truth, whilethe others were being “polite”…
    Wow., this funkmaster dude is really funky!!

  1424. Paul,

    Thanks for taking the time and effort to address my posts…
    I aways appreciate your explanations..
    Contrary to what theseother folks think about me, i am not subscribing to any secret lore to make myself special…. Gordy was a “bit” right when he said i was looking for answers, but i’m not grabbing onto any odd thing… I just pick up random articles which make sense and bounce them off here…. Is there any harm in that??

  1425. PNG,

    Hope you and Joe are well.. I can understand why you are posting very little here these days..
    But be in touch and keep posting often.. Tell Joe that he is being missed here too.

  1426. Owain,

    Regarding Moon pulling away from Earth..
    Is there any explanation for it? I mean a logical reason.. Earth’s gravitational pull becoming weaker or something of that sort..
    Not a rant, a genuine question….

  1427. Paul,

    I dont think Becky’s post about perspective was out of context..
    is there anyone here who has seen the apple from all sides of the table, to know the accurate facts rather than the personal perception??
    Till then, everyone is entitled to believe in their own perspectives i guess…
    Sure, there are ground breaking events now and then, which cause undeniable facts to be unearthed, but till then ……… Even Stevens i guess.

  1428. Owain,

    Tidal interaction causing Moon to move away??? Are you sure?
    Wasn’t it supposed to be the other way round? Moon causing the tides i mean…. How can its position be affected by tides??

  1429. For those crying for proofs for the theores that we support. I would like to remind all of you that what we call “science,” has not explained what is light, magnetism, gravity, and what cause the magnetic field of the Earth. It also
    does not explain why we have over 350 sub?atomic “particles?” Why does Mars
    display proof of past oceans and rivers and where did all the water go? What causes the multiple ice age periods? And how did intelligent live evolve from a few cells to mankind? There are many more phenomena “science” does not have a clue about, but I’m sure you know plenty of them yourself. At some point we must ask ourselves “is our foundation philosophy correct?” For all the millions of man?hours scientists have spent trying to come up with a “unified field theory” and still no success, you would think at some point it would dawn on someone that something is very wrong!

  1430. Owain,

    Regarding the Theory of Evloution.. I had posted something about the same earlier, i am posting it again after this, for your sake..
    Gordy said it was another Foam Flecked rant about Anunnaki etc. But i assure you that the word Anunnaki or Nibiru doesn’t even figure once in the post. Answer the questions for me once you have read it. BTW, i have just compiled the list from various artcles….

  1431. Proofs against Evolution..

    DNA.

    The number of ways that any group of N objects can be arranged is:
    N x (N-1) x (N-2) x . . . x 1
    Thus, 4 objects can be arranged in 24 ways (i.e., 4 x 3 x 2 x 1)
    and 5 objects can be arranged in 120 ways (i.e., 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1)
    We’re told that the earth was formed 4,600,000,000 years ago and the universe began 15,000,000,000 years ago. These seems like pretty big numbers, and pretty long periods of time during which anything could have happened.
    When viewed from the perspective of probabilities, however, it’s just a flash in the pan. The number of ways a deck of just 52 cards can be arranged is about:
    80,658,175,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
    000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
    That’s 80 million trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion
    DNA has over 3 billion base pairs of 4 separate chemicals. Can you imagine what odds must be involved in sequencing them into perfect order in a mere 4.5 billion years through chance and adaptation alone!
    Life, however, is not just a random draw from a deck of chemical cards, but a precisely assembled house of cards built from specific combinations of components.

    The Eye

    Evolution theory has never adequately explained how organs of extreme design and perfection could “evolve”
    Even Darwin recognized the challenge it posed to his theory in the chapter entitled “Difficulties of the Theory” in his book “The Origin of Species”:
    “To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.” Charles Darwin, 1859
    If you’re viewing this page with a 1024×768 resolution monitor, you’re seeing 786,432 pixels of light. A high speed Internet connection typically delivers web content at around 500,000 bytes of information per second. In comparison, your eye sees about 125,000,000 pixels of light through five distinct kinds of neurons, processing about 10,000,000 point images per second. Your eye is remarkably efficient, able to produce a signal with only one photon.
    How do we realistically explain by chance and adaptation the design and manufacture of an organ that far surpasses the technology of cameras and computers which have taken the collective efforts of mankind centuries to develop?

    Phi (Golden Proportion)
    The Fibonacci number, phi, is more than a mathematical curiosity. It is one of the most amazing and pervasive numbers known to man. This, above all numbers, would be a perfect sign to tell us that creation is not just the result of random processes

    Fibonacci, Phi and Spirals in Nature:
    If you sum the squares of any series of Fibonacci numbers, they will equal the last Fibonacci number used in the series times the next Fibonacci number. This property results in the Fibonacci spiral seen in everything from sea shells to galaxies
    DNA
    The DNA molecule, the program for all life, is based on the golden section. It measures 34 angstroms long by 21 angstroms wide for each full cycle of its double helix spiral.
    34 and 21, of course, are numbers in the Fibonacci series and their ratio, 1.6190476 closely approximates phi, 1.6180339.
    The Solar System
    The average of the mean orbital distances of each successive planet expressed in relation to the one before it approximates phi.

    Plants
    Plants illustrate the Fibonacci series in the numbers and arrangements of petals, leaves, sections and seeds.
    Many plants produce new petals in quantities that are based on Fibonacci numbers.
    Each successive level of branches is often based on a progression through the Fibonacci series.
    Irreducible Complexity
    We’re told that life evolved from the very simple to the highly complex, which would make sense if it were true.
    The truth, however, is that even the simplest of life forms are highly sophisticated pieces of biological machinery.
    Every living cell contains DNA, the program which describes every aspect of the organism’s physical design and life functions, including:
    ingestion
    digestion
    conversion to energy
    excretion of waste respiration
    reproduction
    circulation
    growth
    locomotion
    regulation
    response to stimuli
    A cell would not really be “alive” or survive unless all life functions became operable at once, so how did even a “simple” single-celled organism “evolve”?
    We’re told by scientists and academicians that finding or creating a simple molecule of amino acid is evidence of “life,” yet DNA of even a simple E. coli bacteria cell contains 4.6 million base pairs, or 9.2 million bits of information.
    Does evolution theory offer any evidence or even a truly plausible explanation as to how even a single bacteria cell came into being?

  1432. The feeling of increased G force in a centrifugal training machine is only perceived as gravity because motion away from the centre has not been permitted.

    Imagine apparatus that allowed the test subject to travel away from the centre of the machine unhindered……say on a rail track………the higher the rate / speed with which the arm rotates…..the faster and further the subject would be flung from the point of origin. The moon is subject to earth’s centrifugal force as well as gravity. The merry go round analogy.

    There are of coarse other forces…..inertia…and resistivity of e.g. air, re an experiment on earth’s surface.

  1433. Here’s something for the sceptics of evolution written that appeared in ‘The Times’ on Friday.

    Evolution doesn’t necessarily need millions of years to produce a new
    species. Take the human louse.
    When humans emerged on to the sunny savannahs they lost their hair,
    probably to cool down. The lice had a hard time and evolved to live
    in the few patches of habitat left. We now have three kinds, the head
    and body louse plus the pubic louse. Only the body louse hangs on to
    clothing. DNA shows that it split from the head louse form no more
    than 50,000 years ago – which may mark the moment we dressed
    ourselves. – Steve Jones, Professor of Genetics at University College
    London

  1434. Amit. Re: Unified field theory. All the ‘basic’ forces CAN be unified. In fact Oscar Klein and Theordore Kaluza unified gravity with the others in 1922, I think, but did it in 5 spatial dimensions. But trying to quantise gravity is difficult.

    Tides causing the moon to move.: Well tides are raised in both the earth and moon. Tides can be raised in solid gground as well as liquid. These tides cause braking which allows the moon to move away slowly over time. You can check this out at any online astro website.

    Over 350 sub-atomic particles is a nuisance. However if we look at them as vibrational modes of strings – each particle being a discrete harmonic – then the problem disappears, sort of. It’s been suggested that when we “see” and electron or other point source particle we are seeing an open-ended string end on.

    Mars displays ancient oceans because they existed. Not as deep as ours nor as extensive. They disappeared due to low atmospheric pressure and a thinning atmosphere. This could have been due to a giant impact that sculpted the martian lowlands. The northern and southern hemispheres are so different that they could almost be two different palnets.
    Multiple ice ages on the earth are due to the axial tilt moving [NOT the same as a geomagnetic shift] and slight movements in the orbit of the earth. Sometimes it is nearly circular and at others it is more elliptical.

    The fact that there are myriad combinations of dna bases is in some ways a bit of a red herring. Once very early life had ‘chosen’ a winning combination for life it would have had no reason to carry on experimenting. Also remember that an awful lot of dna in humans in redundant and serves no purpose at all.

    As we so far only know of one planet with life anywhere in the universe using probability is a null game.

    I don’t know about the solar system ratios approaching phi.
    The evolution of the eye isn’t too difficult to explain. I’ll be back later as I have work to be getting on with.

  1435. When orbiting satellites travel faster around the earth they move closer to the earth. when orbiting slower they move further away.
    When Yuri Gagarin and the early space travellers went up and around they typically took 85-90 minutes for one orbit as they were in very low earth orbit. Satellites further out take proportionately longer.

  1436. When i’m wrong, i’m wrong. Here the best explantion I can find, but if you accept this answer, you’ll see the other one. Since the earth rotates faster (24 hr) than it take the moon to orbit the earth (28 days), high tide does not actually occur directly under the moon–it actually advances a bit ahead because the earth is rotating so fast. The extra mass of the high tide actually pulls the moon forward a tiny bit, giving it some extra energy, and if you give an orbiting object more energy it actually moves farther away and goes slower (which is counter-intuitive, but true). Of course, this extra energy doesn’t come out of thin air–it comes out of the earth’s rotational energy, so the earth rotates slower. Eventually, there will come a time when the earth’s rotation and the moon’s orbit will have the same period, something on the order of 30-40 days. This is an inevitable occurrence with all planets or planetoids that have large moons, but the only other known example is Pluto and Charon, so it’s interesting that this has not happened for the Earth and Moon yet, which essentially disproves the theory that the Moon formed from the same cloud as the earth (co-accretion). Presumably, only capture of the Moon or a cataclysmic, high-energy event would result in the Moon’s orbit and an Earth day having different periods.
    So now does science now back-up the planet X thingny with this moon go-away joke.
    cuz seems to me that cataclysmic, was something the sumerians talked about?

  1437. celestial mechanics??? People had no idea there was a black hole in the centre of the universe intil 2005. Calculating the motions of astronomical bodies is a complicated procedure because many separate forces are acting at once, and all the bodies are simultaneously in motion. The only problem that can be solved exactly is that of two bodies moving under the influence of their mutual gravitational attraction.
    So kevin 11, the two bodies moving would be the Earth & what ever cause the cataclysm, that caused the moon to start freefalling away from earth. Isn’t that right?

  1438. No that’s not right. The moon is not in freefall away from the earth. It is gravitationally bound but through tidal action it is moving slowly away from the earth. The influence of more than one body on another is measurable and is influential. Jupiter has an influence on the sun albeit a smaall one but it is calculable. Even Pluto has an influence on the sun. Any mass has an influence. Imagine this. The mere act of turning a page in a book will alter the motion of a galaxy billions of light years away. It may be infinitesimally small but it exists.
    The two bodies that created the moon in a collision 4.5 billion years ago very nearly disappeared altogether. The smaller one was mostly absorbed by the earth and much of the earths crust went into orbit to form the moon.
    By the way, there isn’t a black hole at the centre of the universe as the universe has no centre. perhaps you meant the centre of the Milky Way galaxy.

  1439. So paul, if you agree their must’ve been a cataclysm, that formed the moon. how can you say it wasn’t Nibiru?? The debris from the collision are thought by the theory’s proponents to have variously formed the asteriodbelt the moon, and the current incarnation of the planet Earth.
    Sounds kinda like the same thing you guys said. And explains neatly why the moon is in its wooble orbit. Or do i need to go back to school???

  1440. has anybody here ever watched the clip important heavenly miracle warning from God for 2012 by joseph newman? if you have comment back.. or go watch and tell me what you think.

  1441. “The likelihood of the formation of life from inanimate matter is one out of 10(Raised to the power 40,000…) It is big enough to bury Darwin and the whole theory of evolution. There was no primeval soup, neither on this planet nor on any other, and if the beginnings of life were not random, they must therefore have been the product of purposeful intelligence.” Sir Fred Hoyle, professor of astronomy, Cambridge University

  1442. Paul,

    Genesis Explains the Origin of Sexes
    Almost all forms of complex life have both male and female—horses, dogs, humans, mothers, monkeys, fish, elephants, birds, ect. The male needs the female to reproduce, and the female needs the male to reproduce. One cannot carry on life without the other. The Bible tells us that “he which made them at the beginning made them male and female” (Matthew 19:4). But if evolution is true, which then came fir according to the evolutionary theory?
    If a male came into being before a female, how did the male of each species reproduce without females? How is it possible that a male and a female each spontaneously came into being, yet they have complex, complementary reproductive systems? If (and how) would they have developed a reproductive system that requires both sexes in order for the species to survive.

    How would you expain this?

  1443. And if you have figured out an answer, then i have some more questions for you, or any other “Evolutionist” who can answer..

    1. Where did the space for the universe come from?
    2. Where did matter come from?
    3. Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?
    4. How did matter get so perfectly organized?
    5. Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?
    6. When, where, why, and how did life come from non-living matter?
    7. When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?
    8. With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?
    9. Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kind since this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain this?)
    10. How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)
    11. Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?
    12. Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occurred if evolution were true?
    13. When, where, why, and how did:
    Single-celled plants become multi-celled? (Where are the two and three-celled intermediates?)
    Single-celled animals evolve?
    Fish change to amphibians?
    Amphibians change to reptiles?
    Reptiles change to birds? (The lungs, bones, eyes, reproductive organs, heart, method of locomotion, body covering, etc., are all very different!)
    How did the intermediate forms live?
    14. When, where, why, how, and from what did:
    Whales evolve?
    Sea horses evolve?
    Bats evolve?
    Eyes evolve?
    Ears evolve?
    Hair, skin, feathers, scales, nails, claws, etc., evolve?
    15. Which evolved first (how, and how long; did it work without the others)?
    The digestive system, the food to be digested, the appetite, the ability to find and eat the food, the digestive juices, or the body?s resistance to its own digestive juice (stomach, intestines, etc.)?
    The drive to reproduce or the ability to reproduce?
    The lungs, the mucus lining to protect them, the throat, or the perfect mixture of gases to be breathed into the lungs?
    DNA or RNA to carry the DNA message to cell parts?
    The termite or the flagella in its intestines that actually digest the cellulose?
    The plants or the insects that live on and pollinate the plants?
    The bones, ligaments, tendons, blood supply, or muscles to move the bones?
    The nervous system, repair system, or hormone system?
    The immune system or the need for it?
    16. There are many thousands of examples of symbiosis that defy an evolutionary explanation. Why must we teach students that evolution is the only explanation for these relationships?
    17. How would evolution explain mimicry? Did the plants and animals develop mimicry by chance, by their intelligent choice, or by design?
    18. When, where, why, and how did man evolve feelings? Love, mercy, guilt, etc. would never evolve in the theory of evolution.
    19. How did photosynthesis evolve?
    20. How did thought evolve?
    21. How did flowering plants evolve, and from that?
    22. What kind of evolutionist are you? Why are you not one of the other eight or ten kinds?
    23. What would you have said fifty years ago if I told you I had a living coelacanth in my aquarium?
    24. Is there one clear prediction of macroevolution that has proved true?
    25 What is so scientific about the idea of hydrogen as becoming human?
    26. Do you honestly believe that everything came from nothing?

  1444. A vacuum is something too…..so what is the deffinition of Nothing ? A vibration / wave is something as well.

  1445. The particle accelerator will collide Light particles, photons…..in search of the Higgs Boson paricle….nick named the God particle.

    Ancient texts tell us, all is made of light.

    Seems to me that both camps are on the same page really…..one is the theory / philosophy….the other the practical….being science.

  1446. Amit. May I suggest you submit no than 3-4 questions at a time. It’s a bloody nightmare thrying to go through the above list.
    But to answer some the latter one first.
    Yes I believe everything came from nothing and I’ll explain how later.
    Hydrogen becoming human is a lengthy process but it involves the nucleuosynthesis of elements from hydrogen through to helium and on to heavier ones. Elements heavier than iron are produced in supernovae and dispersed throughout the cosmos.
    Given that coelocanths can only live at great depths I’d have been amazed to find one in an aquarium. But I know what you’re getting at. Yes I would have been amazed when they were ‘discovered’ in 1936[?] considering they were believed to have gone extinct 65 million years ago. But they didn’t and like a number of reptiles they got through.

  1447. Take your time Paul, i dont expect you to answer these questions in a split second..

    Infact, i dont expect answers at all, atleast for most of the questions…. 🙂

    But if you can provide valid ones, well, no problems!

  1448. Go Amit- its your birthday, We’re gonna party like, its your birthday. Go,Go,Go,Go,Go
    This sounds so much better out loud 🙂

  1449. OOOOOOOOOOOh, I can try to answer #20, It evolved from J.A.T. Huh?Huh? whata ya think? Did I get that right?
    And # 26, There was nothing but the word, then everything.
    See how religion and science do kinda mesh together?

  1450. good morning all—

    amit, considering how precisely “attuned” everything is, and the precision with which it all comes together and works…”Not by chance” would answer a lot you your questions for me…but, hey$%%^..that’s just me…

  1451. Amit:1: This is quite a difficult question to provide an answer that is easy to visualise. The actual answer is relatively easy to provide. There was nothing. Literally nothing. Everything in the universe, all matter, space, time, the very fabric of the space-time continuum itself appeared from nothing. The current expansion of the universe we see is not moving into anything. A mis-conception arises because we use the phrase ‘The Big Band’ in the way one would use the term an explosion. When we see an explosion we see debris moving away from the popint of detonation into the surrounding area/environment and we naturally assume the same happened/is happening with the expandingf universe. Again I would point you to a reputable website or good intermediate level astronomy book for a more detailed and probably better explanantion.
    I hope you, and any other interested peiople here, won’t mind what appears to be a cursory explanation. We are short of space on this site to go into long convoluted reasons. Also you would be able to re-visit books and online articles time after time. My expalnations can only be overviews but I hope I can at least give you hints of answers and pointers as to where to find more professional answers. When you find answers that conflicet with your personal philosophies try not to dismiss them as merely the scientists attempting to continue th e vested statsu quo. The answers you find are the product of many years hard slog and repeated observations and experiments.

  1452. Now after a D&G re-write, I present to you the Sir Paul explanation- in a different light.

    Amit:1: This is quite a difficult question to provide an answer that is easy to visualise. The actual answer is relatively easy to provide. There was nothing. Literally nothing. Everything in the universe, all matter, space, time, the very fabric of the space-time continuum itself appeared from God. The current expansion of the universe we see is not moving into anything. A mis-conception arises because we keep useing the phrase ‘The Big Bang’/’The Creator’ in the way one would use the term an explosion when he sent forth the energies, that created the universe as we know it. When we see an explosion we see debris moving away from the popint of detonation into the surrounding area/environment and we naturally assume the same happened/is happening with the expanding universe. All from the original release of energy from the Creator. Again I would point you to a reputable website or good intermediate level religious book for a more detailed and probably better explanantion. I hope you, and any other interested people here, won’t mind what appears to be a cursory explanation. We are short of space on this site to go into long convoluted reasons. Also you would be able to re-visit books and online articles time after time. My expalnations can only be overviews but I hope I can at least give you hints of answers and pointers as to where to find more spiritual answers. When you find answers that conflicet with your personal philosophies try not to dismiss them as merely the missionaries attempting to continue the vested statsu quo. The answers you find are the product of many years hard log and repeated observations & “belief” in the Truth.
    Of the vast number of things ordinary adults believe, only a few can be at the fore of the mind at any single time. Nor does the term “belief”, in standard philosophical usage, imply any uncertainty or any extended reflection about the matter in question (as it sometimes does). Many of the things we believe, in the relevant sense, are quite mundane. Don’t you agree?

  1453. And Dave,
    You must’ve miss understood me. I was simply relaying a message for some friends of mine.
    Me I think the only reason God loves you, is because everyone else thinks your an asshole. you and all your smart buddies, who really don’t know shit. You read so many books & don’t have time to read a religious one? Your scared to find out all of life can’y be explained under the microscope. You need to stepback and see the whole picture. But you see a hole and think of flying fucks you small brained assshit. take the piss out of a calm what the fuck does that mean.

  1454. Dear Leah/Maddness,

    IN different posts you have implied the same thing basically.. Science and Religion are basically on the same page..And i agree with that. But the problem is that religion los its way somewhere down the line and the form of religion that we see now is not what it was meant to be….

  1455. Paul,

    Appreciate your efforts in trying to answer the quesions…
    I have gone to many Astronomy sites, but the explanations are always flaky at best… Some glaring loop holes are always there…
    Well, it comes down to beliefs i guess, and its clear that ours’ differ greatly.
    The base upon which Science has raised its Evolution premise is that “Life is a product of chance”,and that Sir, is something with which i will never get myself to agree…..

    BTW, what do you have to say about the “Origin of Sexes” question which i asked?

  1456. Yes Becky, i agree with you…
    But i have a better answer – “God made it so” … It will make Evolutionists cringe and tear their hair out, but thats true!

  1457. The “evolutionary tree” has no trunk. In what evolutionists call the earliest part of the fossil record (generally the lowest sedimentary layers of Cambrian rock), life appears suddenly, full-blown, complex, diversified, and dispersed worldwide. Evolution predicts that minor variations should slowly accumulate, eventually becoming major categories of organisms. Instead, the opposite is found. Almost all of today’s plant and animal phyla including flowering plants, vascular plants, and vertebrates appear at the base of the fossil record. In fact, many more phyla are found in the Cambrian than exist today. Complex species, such as fish, worms, corals, trilobites, jellyfish, sponges, mollusks, and brachiopods appear suddenly, with no sign anywhere on earth of gradual development from simpler forms. Insects, a class comprising four-fifths of all known animal species (living and extinct), have no known evolutionary ancestors. The fossil record does not support evolution.

  1458. Bones of modern-looking humans have been found deep in undisturbed rocks that, according to evolution, were formed long before man began to evolve. Examples include the Calaveras skull, the Castenedolo skeletons, Reck’s skeleton, and others. Remains such as the Swanscombe skull, the Steinheim fossil, and the Vertesszöllos fossil present similar problems. Evolutionists almost always ignore these remains..

  1459. No evolutionary theory has been able to explain why earth’s atmosphere has so much oxygen. Too many substances should have absorbed oxygen on an evolving earth. Besides, if the early earth had oxygen in its atmosphere, compounds (called amino acids) needed for life to evolve would have been destroyed by oxidation. But if there had been no oxygen, there would have been no ozone (a form of oxygen) in the upper atmosphere. Without ozone to shield the earth, the sun’s ultraviolet radiation would quickly destroy life. The only known way for both ozone and life to be here is for both to come into existence simultaneously—in other words, by creation.

  1460. Clays and various rocks absorb nitrogen. Had millions of years passed before life evolved, the sediments that preceded life should be filled with nitrogen. Searches have never found such sediments.

    Basic chemistry does not support the evolution of life

  1461. For the sake of clarity……I had NOT written that Science and RELIGION seem to be on the same page.

    Religion and the content of ancient texts in the form they were originally written…….are not the same…..just as Faith and Religion are not the same. Faith is within…..whilst religion is an external influence…..the interpretations of some….impressed upon the many. To have faith, that something greater than ourselves exists…..does not require, and is not, religion.

    Science, as I do, has faith that one day we will be able to explain and understand the origins of our universe, and what is beyond……first cause / crator etc. It really doesn’t matter what name / label is slapped on…….it is what it is in spite of man’s labels.
    Once known, Science will give it a technical name, and some will call it God. No doubt each will try to lay claim to being right and the other wrong……instead of realising they are both right.

  1462. I wouldn’t ever place science and religion on the same page. Most, if not all, religions are antagonistic to science as it ultimately challenges religion on the origin of the universe and man’s primacy on the earth.

  1463. Nitrogen is ‘fixed’ in the soil by plants and is eventually released back into the atmosphere which is why you won’t find hugwe deposits of it in rocks though it does actually form minerals within rocks.

  1464. While I would agree with you that life seems to have appeared in full, multi-cellular form at the begining of the Cambrian period fossil discoveries made in the past 20 years show a whole vibrant biosphere stretching back at least another 600 millions years into thr PreCambrian. Single celled organisms have been found, unequivocally, back as far as 3.5 billion yraes ago. Very similar organisms are seen today – stromatolites – virtually unchanged.
    As why there appears to be little or no link between uni-cellualar organisms and corals, brachiopods etc etc just think for how relatively few bodies would be preserved, how few of those that were fossilised would survive 7-8 hundred million years and then how few beds containing those preserved specimens have either been exposed/raised to the surface or examined for fossils. Considering ALL that there are still more than enough specimens to conclude with almost 100% accuracy the theory of evolution and that all life evolved from single celled animals.
    Agreed it is at first sight difficult to accept but that’s the way it is. Sorry if that clashes with your beliefs.

  1465. Amit: As to the origin of the sexes I don’t know.
    The Steinheim, Swanscombe and Vertesszöllos remains don’t really present a problem unless by that you mean that they are rare or sole representatives. You say they are ignored. Not so. But with so little to work with no FIRM conclussions can yet be reached. Once more remains are found at these places advances will be made and gaps filled in.
    Swanscombe appears to be, if I remember correctly, an early Homo sapiens-type found in Britain and dated to around 250,000 years ago which reaches back to late[?] Homo erectus times. It has been considered to a distant forebear of H. [sap] neaderthalensis
    Steinheim man is also an early [archaic] form of H. sapiens. It was classified as a separate species – H. heidelbergensis. It has been dated to a time prior to Swanscombe Man around 350,000 years ago.
    Vertesszöllos may appear odd because estimates of its cranial capacity suggest a brain size of 1400c.c. Ours are around 1350c.c. Most late Neaderthals have a cranial capacity in excess of ours but because of the low profile and inferred lack of cerebral cortex they may not have been as intelligent as us.
    It is not unusual for some older human variants to possess brains bigger than ours. Ultimately it has done them little good as we prospered where they didn’t.
    As you can see at least two types of humans lived alongside each other for tens, even hundreds, of thousands of years.
    The presence of oxygen in the atmosphere is due to the myriad tiny photosynthesising plants that evolved around 2.5 billion years ago. It spelled the death-knell for the cyano bacteria that dominated the planet at the time. Early earth did not have oxygen in its atmosphere. It was composed of carbon dioxide, water vapour, nitrogen, ammonia and methane. Even once oxygen had become a main component there was an ‘O2 crash’ and much was taken up by iron bearing rocks and these can be found in sedimenatry layers dating to around 800 million years ago[you can check that date yourself].
    At many times during the earth’s history the ozone layer has been either stripped away entirely or severley depleted. The last time was around 37,000 years ago when a conjectured supernova in the sun’s vicinity blasted it away. The lifeforms on the earth survived unscathed as far as we can tell.

  1466. Amit: If you believe ‘god made it so’, then there is little point in further discussion on this subject.

  1467. There’s a scene in ‘Minority Report’ in which Tom Cruise’s character enters a mall and the ads personalize themselves to him as he walks by. What was then only science fiction is now closer to reality, says a recent AP story, as a growing number of display screens are being equipped with small cameras & face regonition technology.
    (the same kind used increasingly in handheld digicams), providing demographic data about who looked at the ad and for how long. The technology can already recognize gender and age and, while it’s currently being used for audience research, it isn’t impossible to make the leap to custom, targeted ads.

    The unsettling facial recognition raises a privacy debate since the public isn’t told they are being “recognized,” but the companies providing the service (currently at malls in Winston-Salem, NC, St. Louis, and Pittsburgh), assert that the information is not recorded or stored and that individuals can’t be recognized (just gender and age). Still, this seems a lot like the Big Brother of ‘1984’ and prompted us to think a little more about disturbing and creepy ads and practices, which is why we’ve collected a bunch of other ads that are unsettling in the broadest sense of the term.
    may you find your light

  1468. leah–well said!!! SO good to hear from you once again…thanks so much…please be well…

    PnG—a far stretch of the imagination is now a small leap…i am sure it won’t be long…these “ads” are “fun”–novelty items still…they hold lots of “potential”…and it will, of course, depend on how they will be used…another “wait and see”…

    best wishes…

  1469. Paul,

    Amit: If you believe ‘god made it so’, then there is little point in further discussion on this subject.

    You dont need bail out opportunities like this.. I am not holding you at ransom for answering the questions…

  1470. And while i say that “God made it so”, i dont say it as a blind faith.. I have facts to back my claims… I have more points in favor of my belief, but i am deliberately holding back, because that will give you guys a chance to skip many of the previous points and just hang on to some of the lighter points, which even disproved wont make much of a difference..

  1471. Regarding your point about Single Celled Organisms… I agree that many single-celled forms of life exist, but no known forms of animal life have 2, 3, 4, or 5 cells. Known forms of life with 6–20 cells are parasites, so they must have a complex animal as a host to provide such functions as respiration and digestion. If macroevolution happened, one should find many transitional forms of life with 2–20 cells—filling the gap between one-celled and many-celled organisms.

  1472. And as for Fossil records, fossils all over the world show evidence of rapid burial. Many fossils, such as fossilized jellyfish, show by the details of their soft, fleshy portions that they were buried rapidly, before they could decay. (Normally, dead animals and plants quickly decompose.) The presence of fossilized remains of many other animals, buried in mass graves and lying in twisted and contorted positions, suggests violent and rapid burials over large areas. These observations, together with the occurrence of compressed fossils and fossils that cut across two or more layers of sedimentary rock, are strong evidence that the sediments encasing these fossils were deposited rapidly—not over hundreds of millions of years. Furthermore, almost all sediments that formed today’s rocks were sorted by water. The worldwide fossil record is, therefore, evidence of rapid death and burial of animal and plant life by a worldwide, catastrophic flood. The fossil record is not evidence of slow change.

  1473. PNG,

    Thats an interesting bit of news! The gap between Sci Fi and reality is fast closing down!!!

    Here is something to add:

    LONG BEACH (CALIFORNIA): US university researchers have created a portable “sixth sense” device powered by commercial products that that can seamlessly
    channel internet information into daily routines.
    The device created by Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) scientists can turn any surface into a touch-screen for computing, controlled by simple hand gestures. The gadget can even take photographs if a user frames a scene with his or her hands, or project a watch face with the proper time on a wrist if the user makes a circle there with a finger.
    The MIT wizards cobbled a web camera, a battery-powered projector and a mobile telephone into a gizmo that can be worn like jewelry. Signals from the camera and projector are relayed to smart phones with internet connections.
    “Other than letting some of you live out your fantasy of looking as cool as Tom Cruise in ‘Minority Report’ it can really let you connect as a sixth sense device with whatever is in front of you,” said MIT researcher Patty Maes.
    Maes used a Technology, Entertainment, Design Conference stage in Southern California on Wednesday to unveil the futuristic gadget made from store-bought components costing about $300 dollars. The device can recognize items on store shelves, retrieving and projecting information about products or even providing quick signals to let users know which choices suit their tastes.
    The gadget can look at an airplane ticket and let the user know whether the flight is on time, or recognize books in a book store and then project reviews or author information from the internet onto blank pages. The gizmo can recognize articles in newspapers, retrieve the latest related stories or video from the internet and play them on pages.

  1474. Whenever i see a news article posted here or post one myself, Espumpin suddenly comes to mind…. Sad he is not here amongst us now… 🙁

  1475. If evolution happened, the fossil record should show continuous and gradual changes from the bottom to the top layers. Actually, many gaps or discontinuities appear throughout the fossil record. At the most fundamental level, a big gap exists between forms of life whose cells have nuclei (eukaryotes, such as plants, animals, and fungi) and those that don’t (prokaryotes such as bacteria and blue-green algae). Fossil links are also missing between large groupings of plants, between single-celled forms of life and invertebrates (animals without backbones), among insects, between invertebrates and vertebrates (animals with backbones), between fish and amphibians, between amphibians and reptiles, between reptiles and mammals, between reptiles and birds, between primates and other mammals, and between apes and other primates.In fact, chains are missing, not links. The fossil record has been studied so thoroughly that it is safe to conclude that these gaps are real; they will never be filled.

  1476. Dear Amit,

    The MIT gizzmo……clever….. has the potential to engage the mind completely, whilst wearing the device.. like in the film WALL E…….and cut the mind off from what is really going on around the person.
    The next phase will be to build in Audio capability. No further need for I-Pods or mobile phones. The phone aspect, being the one that intices people to never take the device off….not even whilst asleep.

    Already many are involved in accidents due to their attention being distracted when using mobile phones or listening to music on I-Pods etc. Imagine if both Visual and Audio senses are engaged along with the mind processing all the incoming info.
    Question is…..are people resonsible enough to be hooked upto such an engaging device ?
    Should other ongoing research discover a way to transmit info directly to the brain……there would no longer be a choice…..one would be plugged in….like it or not.
    Be well, Leah

  1477. Dear Owain,
    How you doing…well I hope.
    Throughout the ages, women have been discouraged from acedemia……..kept busy with family and keeping house. Even today I’m hard pushed to find any woman in my neck of the woods, who is involved in acedemia. So, subjects such as are being discussed here are still the realms of men for the most part.
    Rest assured I’m not looking for answers from any of you……..and I’ll admit to my questions being loaded. No one should ever believe in that which they did not discover and prove for themselves. Take it on board….yes….then check it out…..to see if it stacks up.
    The problem with many things, is that the masses have no option but to take the word of others……what’s worse, is that few bother to inspect closely what they are being told….and what is left out.
    Be well, Leah

  1478. Here’s something for the Cosmologists / Astronomers…….
    With all the space probes launched into space , and considering our solar system’s location in the milky way…..galactic plane area…..do you honestly believe that not one probe had been sent to gather data re the frequencies in this area of space….and the effects they would have on Earth ? Not one telescope has been used to gather data from the galactic plane area ? Do any of you believe that there is absolutely no interest in such data ?
    If research is correct, as Paul wrote…..re our solar system crossing the galactic plane…….3 times from below and 3 times from above the plane, per one complete revolution around the milky way…..6 times in approx 240 million years…….it is an under statement to say that this is a rare occurance.
    Therefore it would be very closely studied……which it has been.

  1479. If one views the construction of over 1500 deep underground bases worldwide as the effect……what are the probable causes……war, which is under the control of humans……climate, that could be catastrophic, or at the very least cause massive food shortage and therefore unrest, that some would withdraw to such bases……like wise increased volcanic and tectonic activity, displacing millions……..and influences from space.

  1480. Yes Amit the fossil record DOES show gaps, sometimes huge ones, but as I explained above we are dealing with tremendous amounts of time, trmendous amounts of still buried fossil-bearing rock and the probability that only a small percentage of the organiasms that have died over a spaan of 4+ billion years simply hasn’t been preserved. Of course there will be gaps.
    By the way, by not continuing the discussion is not baling out on you. My main area of knowledge are astronomy and geology. As I have said before if you want to know the answers to some of the questions you’re [rightly] asking you must speak to molecular biologists, evolutionary biologists, geneticists, etc. Archaeology and hominid development I will answer as well but don’t expect a series of highly complex, mathematical descriptions.

  1481. Fossils OCCASIONALLY show rapid burial by mudslides, landslips and volcanic ash. When an animal dies it sinks to the bottom of the sea or ocean. These places are virtually oxygen free and there are few active decomposer organisms there either. Natural burial over a relatively short period of time [months] is not unusual and is a natural occurrence.
    The twisted appearance of certain fossils which some like to think of as an animal in its death throes is merely the result of the ligament and tendons shortening post-mortem.
    Fossils see cut across tow or more sedamentary layers is due to faulting in the rocks.
    By no means all the sedamentary rocks are ‘sorted’ by water. Virtually all the Triassiac Bunter Sandstone was wind deposited in th einterior of a vast continent. Similarly much of ther preceding Permian rocks are desert-formed

  1482. The fossil record is FAR from having been thoroughly studied. The scientific approach to its study is a very recent one. Owen and Darwin recognised a progression and were able to assign some fossils to certain groups, see relationships etc but the finer details and relationships are only now being worked out. A ‘final’ evolutionary record if ever worked out is some way off.

  1483. Amit. If you dispute the fossil record how do you account for them? What timescale are you assuming if not 4+ billion years? Do you think that all the past life existed at virtually the same time?

  1484. I think Amit believes a huge hand appeared in the sky, lifted up the Jurassic rocks and slipped in some dinosaur bones [after he’d twisted their necks around of course]
    This is the kind of religious hogwash that leads eventually to James Town and the Branch Davidians fiascos.
    Has anyone noticed the content of many of the posts from Amit/Rico and some others are actually fundamentalist religious dribblings? Rico shouts about how we should only read and take notice of the old testament and Amit is an evolution denier and constantly says god made it so [was he Jean-Luc Picard in between zapping unbelievers and causing plagues etc?] Utter rubbish.

  1485. Hey, Handy…its better he “think” something like a huge hand showing up, better to believe in something far greater than your self. Why??? Because at least Amit, will not be taken aback & his world will not be shattered “if” & “when” these events occur. You on the other hand will SHIT BRICKS. 🙂 Now if nothing ever occurs, well at least Amit was able to have a conversation with you on one level, & have a broad and open enough mind to talk to others in their belifes. And be able to turn around on another level & still understand what is being talked about. You get what i’m talking about? What are you talking about willis? You proberly read comic books & porn, but won’t read a bible. WOW how can you call your self knowledgable, when everytime you wipe your ass, you look at the stinky on the paper..eewwww, just fold it over, don’t look…gross who brought this up anyway.

  1486. okay–handy andy—‘MAKE IT SO”…

    rico has not posted for a month now—he is not even in the equation of this conversation…amit needs no help..he hold his own just fine…i have nothing to say, because i am “listening”…

    MANY KUDOS to paul for his kindness and patience in attempting to help fill in the gaps…thank you, paul…

    …and to all, be well…

  1487. maddness…thank you–well said (EXCEPT FOR THE LAST PART)..we coulda done without that…

    amit–i share your thoughts about espumpin…he is truly missed…

  1488. amit and PnG–that “tracking device” by MIT is alive and well and used in national retail chains to track “merchandising techniques”…what is merchandised and where and how well it sells…it is used where i work…and is called “goliath”…

    just thought i’d share…

  1489. Unfortunately Amit does not show any kind of broad,open-mindedness as he has demonstrated with his point blank refusal to accept, or worse, understand anything that Paul or Owain or Kevin has posted in reply to his questions on astronomy, archaeology etc. I have no doubt he is a very pleasant person and treats his family and pets with kindness and respect but unfortunately history is litter with religious fanatics who are so very willing to ‘visit the wrath of their god’ on the unbeliever. Not saying Amit is anything like that at all but I’m always very wary of the ranting ‘believer’. By all means have an unshakable belief in god, gods, deities, goblins etc but don’t you dare say that those beliefs overthrow or negate the scientific proofs.
    It isn’t the purpose of science to prove or disprove the existance of a supernatural being.
    I personally have two friends who are anglican ministers and while their belief in their god is virtually unshakable they glory in the advances of science and accept unconditionally the theory of evolution and the big bang.
    As for comic books and porn, well I left them behind in my mid teens – 30 years ago. Still flick through the occasional Savage Sword Of Conan and graphic novel though. And every time I wipe after a bowel movement I don’t look. Stopped that when I was 5 or 6. You on the other hand …………….

  1490. Amit. Glad to see you’re asking probing questions. As Paul said above some of what you’re asking just isn’t finding the right ears. I haven’t seen anyone here who is a genetics expert or an evolutionary biochemist. Most of the scientists appear to be astronomers/cosmologists [me,Paul & Gordy] and archaeologists [Kevin & Paul]. Not too sure what some of the other guys are. Btw, why is it mainly men here? I know there’s Leah and Becky but they seem to be here in search of answers rather than supplying answers to specific questions.
    However, I would say that just asking questions and then dismissing them as non-answers/irrelevenecies because they’re not to your liking isn’t the way forward. By providing the answers we aren’t trying to necessarily ‘win’ you over to our side just point out what science and rationality says about a particular question or problem.

  1491. …”with his point blank refusal to accept, or worse, understand anything”…

    handy andy–strictly as a by-stander, i did not perceive amit to be that way at all…my interests lie in ALL that is being “brought to the table”…this is a valid debate (…in my ever so humble opinion…) i have enjoyed reading both sides…

    thanks to all for letting me “listen in”…

  1492. leah–it is truly scary what all this technology has the capabilities of doing…we are, at least, or may very well soon be, unwilling and unwitting guinea pigs…scary!!!!!

  1493. Madness. Sorry I forgot to add. You’re a complete idiot. I’m quite happy to trade insults etc with you and keep you occupied as long as you agree to stop posting random garbage and insults towards the scientific elements here.
    I’ll start the ball rolling. You have so far displayed a complete lack of knowledge in ….. everything. There was something vaguely religious in tone in a couple of posts but that just showed you’re a ranter. But being religious you ought to take that as a compliment as The Ranters were a religious sect in Britain in 1660’s. Though from what I remember of my A-level history they were pantheists thinking that god existed in all living things. Whatever.

  1494. Becky. How can you say you don’t perceive Amit as refusing to accept or understand answers that have been provided? At every turn he does just that. The ridiculous attempts at refuting evolution are rehashed arguments from decades ago – the animals must have been overtaken by a catastrophe because of their contorted bodies; many animals of the different species all mixed up in the same place etc etc.
    I notice he never repleid when asked how he thinks the fossils DID get there or how long he thinks complicated life has existed on earth. Those are questions from the other side of the fence [from a non scientist but someone who is interested]

  1495. owain–thank you for your kind acnowledgement…speaking solely for myself, i’m not so sure anyone’s answers are being “non-chalantly” dismissed…if nothing else, they are provoking more thought and more questions…

    but, hey!!! what do i know??? wish i could be a “contributer”..

    thanks again for you kind indulgence…

  1496. I gotta say though, Paul has kicke some ass in here with his knowledge. He says things like “My area of expertise”. Hes humble. He didn’t start that way but I admit hes certainly gone out his way to distance himself from these other pretenders.

    He speaks facts clearly and explains himself well.

    You other science groupies need to take example from this guy. He kicks ass and all you guy do is…Well one of you smells like ass.

    I can’t help it though. I keep going back another page and this Andy guy grates on me.

    This guys don’t know shit from shinola and he writes in here like he’s that last fuckin coke in the desert. Unfuckinreal.

    Andy, dude, I have to say this slow so that you can grasp it.

    YOU ARE AN ASSHOLE.

    Now andy boy, go fetch me that Baalbek explanation I asked you for, Go now fetch boy!!

    Your Master,

    Rico

  1497. Hey Becky, Madness,

    Its saturday so I guess the slacker scientist aren’t at work and can’t post anything.

    All I do is think about these things. Things about Kings and Queens and royalty and how many old world nations had them. So many from the begining.

    In America, we didn’t have Kings and Queens. Its a kingless nation.

    The thing is kings and priest were established in the old world to ensure that laws were kept and the people were taken care of. The priest were in place to keep the kings in place. This practice continued for a long time even after there were no gods around and eventually lost its magic so to speak.

    Now kings and Queens ain’t shit. They exist but only as assholes for the tabloids and basically as some kind of cross between celebrities and ornaments.

    Religion is the same, its all symbolic. Lost all of its magic too.

    I met mathematicians that have seen quantum equations and they have stated that these equations ae impossible but they exist.

    Quantum technolgy is going to change science.

    As discoveries occur science changes.

    Science cannot explain everything. I can ask you so called scientist many questions pertaining to old world history and or ancient artifacts and you wouldn’t be able to answer. Instead all you would do is tell me that the lack of a scientifc answer at this time isn’t evidence of extraterrestial visitation. Thats not an answer.

    You can’t tell me you don’t know something and in the same sentence tell what it isn’t.

    Understand that the ancient astronaut hypothesis is not impossible. Your argument can only therefore be that it is improbable.

    Thats not enough for you to stand as tall as you do and talk down to us that back this theory.

    If you guys take yourselves seriousy in your respecive professions and you expect a certain amount of creditation and respect then you must reciprocate, you must also offer a certain amount of respect to people in their respective professions. I now refer you the all the highly trained pilots and radar men that have witnessed, followed, chased, and recorded UFO events across the world.

    If you debunk all of those sightings by highly trained certified pilots then I don’t expect you deserve much respect.

    I refer to Mr. Handy Andys’ referrence to open mindedness.

    Have any of you ever stood by the trilithons at Baalbek? Have you visited the great pyramid at Giza?

    Do you know how many pyramids crumbled because they were built incorrectly after the great pyramid at giza? Wouldn’t it stand to reason that you improve on your building as opposed to the other way around?

    Why was the pyramid at giza built so much differently from the rest being the earliest one built?

    How can we make a building near perfection and then make a whole bunch that don’t stand up? What did we lose in the interim?

    When the romans built the temple for Jupiter at Baalbek. They claimed that the ruins they built on were already ancient and that they could not imagine who had built them or how.

    To this day science hasn’t offered an explanation for this accomplishment.

    Were they smarter than us back then? Is our technology only now begining to catch up with what those people had?

    That doesn’t sound quite right does it?
    Then whats the explanation?

    So many different things. There are literrally thousands of pyramids in china that haven’t been studied. The chinese won’t allow it.

    So we wait. Science can only stand by its opinion of ancient astronaut improbablity.

    But its not impossible.

    Some of these clown in here will come back monday and start attacking me because I used cuss words and say look at hm hes so uneducated. But thats ok. They’re like that. They see the trees but can’t see the forrest. None will come back with anything on Baalbek except for some bullshit.

    Have a nice weekend thinkers,

    -The R Man-

  1498. Andy = ASSHOLE

    Owain = ASSHOLE

    So should we wipe with an Owain after we take a Andy

    OR, wipe with an Andy after we take a Owain

  1499. Salutations,

    We are free to choose and should be ready for the consequences of our choices/beliefs.
    Ready or not you will bear the responsibility.

  1500. Greetings Maddness,

    Is G joe about…..I would ask “is it doubling or squaring” ?

    Middle of the road is boring……so many are tuned into sensationalism…..so miss the constant subtle signs.
    Be well, Leah

  1501. Hi Rico,

    Remember that these times involve not just the 26,000 year cycle, but also the crossing of the galactic plane, and 2012 is solar maximum. There are other cycles involved too……so its convergance and synchronicity time.
    BTW Few would cope with hearing what is heard by the higher ups in briefings. Takes real stomach.
    Be well, Leah

  1502. Greetings Persona non Grata,

    Please convey my wishes for wellbeing for all life, always, to Debauch.
    Be well, Leah

  1503. Debauch says SOON…..Someone will ask, so it may as well be me……When ? in the context of time on Earth…..one of our months….years ?

  1504. Ah I see numb-nuts Rico is back.
    I don’t think that science has ever claimed to know all the answers. My understanding is that science strives to find the answers.
    Ok science hasn’t, in your eyes, answered the ‘problem’ of Baalbek. What would be your explanation?
    Proposing that our technology is only now beginning to catch up with the ancient Egyptians, for example, is the height of stupidity. If you can give us half a dozen examples of where the ancients were ahead of us in any of the following I’ll show my bare arse in Trafalgar Square.
    1) surgical/operation techniques e.g. organ transplants
    2) electronic survelliance
    3) microscopy
    4) powered flight
    5) health care
    6) proper central heating [Roman hypercausts don’t count]

  1505. Handy Andy, yes I’m back yo.

    First of all I never said science has the answers to everything. What I’m saying is that YOU dont have the answers to everything.

    You come off extremely arrogant talking to Amit as if his beliefs were silly because you disagree with him.

    You use established science as a crutch to do this but when I say science isnt perfect you shut up about it.

    What I meant when I asked if old world science was ahead of ours is that those people did things that we cannot do today with our modern equipment.

    As far as surgery, there are records of surgeries going back 3000 years all the way to Sumer so the fact of the matter is that that knowledge was lost to man before it was rediscovered later. Sumerian tablets refer to surgeries.

    Dont start me on electrics because you or science hasnt explained what stones were located inside the niches in those pyramids.
    They were removed long ago.

    Scriptures written in stone speak of power generated by the pyramid. Legends tell of weapons inside the pyramid. Do you know anything about that? Are you familiar with the writings I’m referring to? Have you ever read the story of Dumiz and Innana?

    Nah, I don’t think you are.

    As for health care no offense but those people lived far longer than we do now.

    Science in its own little way has been exploited for profit just as has religion and what we have today is a by product of science gone wild. You are aware of global warming I’m sure.

    I’m not going to deviate from the issue at hand here.
    The fact is that you admitted that you don’t wipe your ass properly and theres much more than just Baalbek that bears study.

    There are major descriptions in various writings from diverse places around the world that today seem to be flying vehicles.

    This needs further study.

    I don’t really give a rats ass about what you know handyman. You need to find out what you don’t know.

    I’ve been coming here for a while now and you can opine anything you want but when you start calling others ideas ridiculous and say that we’re ranting well then I have to get formal and call you by your last name, asshole.

    I asked other question andy. Too bad the questions I ask can’t be googled for a explanation eh?

    Yea, science, if you can’t get it in a book or the web then it must not exist right?

    You just got to this planet and guess what? You’re leaving soon. You need to respect what the ancients wrote and listen to the stories. They left these stories for us.

    They told about these guys that came down from above. The sons of God some called them. Maybe they called them that because at the time only the sun and heavely bodies were considered gods, by the way they were called lofty.

    Maybe they called them the sons of god because they came from where the gods were, the sky.

    It doesn’t matter. The way we’re built and the way all life on this planet and in fact the planet itself and the other orbiting planets. It all seems like intelligent design to me.

    This planet is almost like some kind of engine. The way our solar system works seems almost organized.

    But not according to Handy Andy Garp there huh?

    This is all a result of a big bang!! Then as time goes by and you have enough monkeys etc…

    Right, this is all a big mistake. The law of averages at its finest. You figure take a couple of hundred billion years and somewhere along the line this will all eventually happen as it has.

    Ok, you believe what you believe and we believe what we believe.

    But you see how stupid your version sounds when I describe it?

    Yeah Handy Andy, I’m back mate. Isn’t that what you guys call each other over there? mate?

    Yea, just in case I forget, fuck you andy.

    -Ricochet-

  1506. Damn!! I left out powered flight didn’t I?

    Oh well. I imagine leaving that out with the story of Adapa out there like that huh?

    You know the story of Adapa don’t ya Andy?

    Its actually credited with being the prototype for the biblical adam.

    But Handyman, take a crack at explaining the pilots I asked you about, please.

    Tell us how so many pilots in so many parts of the world from so many different cultures and languages have seen, followed, recorded, and reported sightings of UFO’s.

    Nevermind the many that didn’t report huh? You know why they didn’t report Andy? Because there exist an element amongst man somewhat like yourself that would deride them, call them deluded, they them they hallucinated and that they should be passed on to another aspect of science, Psychiatry. And don’t try to say Psychiatry isn’t a science, you don’t have the luxury of deciding whats science and what isn’t.

    Even boxing has been referred to as a science.

    Why do I bother with this shit?

    Madness, Becky, Leah, Amit, my buddies in here. You see how I believe. Why do I bother with these limited losers?

    These imaginatively challenged cretins.

    Its a damn shame, we used to have great discussions in here before the scientist showed up like a pack of soccer fans.

    I know Leah hates it when I write like this, but I see that she tries to hard to pacify these insulting assholes.

    Leah, sorry friend. These guys don’t understand middleground. They don’t understand compromise. They are right and we are idiots, thats all there is to it.

    So I have to explain in languages they understand. Fuck them all.

    Laterz peoplez!

    Big Bang Bing!! Ricochet Rabbit!!!

  1507. Boy, That wore me out just reading it. look, sometimes when your MAD, things get hazy.
    Rico’s point is so clear, Paul’s,Leah,Amit & Becky….If the 5 of you find middle ground, without being to sure where everyone stands. Then there is help for the world. People like Handy & Gordy need concrete proof, & theres nothing wrong with that. Its just by now they should have seen…the light?…A Sign??? Something.
    More & more people are becoming aware of the 2012 date. Awareness brings change, awareness as we know does not necessarily imply understanding, just an ability to be conscious of, feel or perceive.Once one has accomplished their sense of awareness they have come to terms with awarement.
    What can follow is Self-awareness or self-consciousness, “We are the same person to the extent that we are conscious of our past and future thoughts and actions in the same way as we are conscious of our present thoughts and actions. If consciousness is this “thought” which doubles all thoughts, then personal identity is only founded on the repeated act of consciousness: “This may show us wherein personal identity consists: not in the identity of substance, but… in the identity of consciousness”
    Rico you Rock,…hehehe, try saying that 5 times fast.

  1508. And listen,..( I can’t believe, I gotta say this), We’re suppose to forgive those, feel pity for those who have not found there way. We are to guide & help those who are our brothers & sisters. and forgive them for they know not what they do.
    For in judging them, we judge ourselves. And we cannot judge one another, when we do not have all the relevant facts. In any of our cases. Right?

  1509. Madness, you da man!!

    First of all you have to understand that this whole thread is screwed. They make the same error everyone makes when it comes to the “calendar”. They assume that it should be credited to the Maya but in fact it was the Olmec that brought that knowledge with them from western Africa. The south american nations don’t like to be told this because racism exist all over the americas and they don’t want to credit the africans with bringing them this astrological knowledge.

    This all come from Sumer as I stated before.

    The fact that the calendar has an end date of 2012 which we now know coincides with an event that only occurs every 26,000 years in itself gives meaning to this calendar.
    In other words that shit is official.

    It seems like the key word of the times is change don’t it? Thats how Barrack Obama got himself elected and thats the new pitch now, change.

    Yea, change is coming alright.

    Paul do you know at which point in the next couple of years the earth dips below the galactic equator?

    Thats a good thing to know. At least we’ll know when its begining or even if it has already begun.

    But yeah, 2012 is gonna be different for sure.

    Its not gonna be just another hangover on new years day 2013.

    Not to sound like a CT again but I’d like to hear the briefings these leaders get about this.

    I heard that in Amsterdam and holland the sales for bunker style shelters has gone wild. They say that those people believe that 2012 is going to bring catastrophes. So you see, we’re not spreading fear. The internet exist and we are living in times when almost everyone knows almost everything.

    Hide ‘N Seek baby!!

    Only a few more years, we’ll see won’t we?

    Meanwhile, Handy Andy has learned something in his old age hasn’t he?

    You have to keep looking untill you;re sure your ass is clean when you wipe don’t you?

    ROFLMFAO!!!!!!

    Man did he ever run into a brick wall with that confession. Dude, change your name I will never let you live that shit down. Get it? Shit down!! get it???

    Fuck me man I’m too funny!!!

    See that shit Handyman, be careful what you wish for huh? You thought of me and here I am in all my idiotic uneducated lunatic fashion.

    I wear all those labels here, but I wipe my ass properly man!!

    -Hilarious Rico-

  1510. Maddness is correct, although not as articulate. If you are willing to accept in there begining there was nothing. Then simply open your mind, to thought of a higher creator. Who has a plan, only you really arent that important to be let it on.
    Each of us play a major part, each of us are very important. But think of it as a need to know basis. It doesnt make the foot soliders any less important to the plans of the generals.
    The truth is not as easy to accept as you may think. Debauch…wishes the best for all..& hopes to see all soon.
    may you find your light

  1511. Madness, its really very simple. All of the laws come down to love thy neighbor as you would love yourself.

    Basically its live and let live. As for forgiving. You can forgive in advance as some people won’t apologize.

    Like someone may wrong you and think nothing of it. You can approach them and tell them they are forgiven but it wont matter to them until such time a they realize what theyve done. Forgiveness work for the forgiver. It liberates you from carry grudges and so no stress. This always helps.

    These are formulas for living. Biblical principals so to speak.

    I gotta go to Walmart.

    BBL.

    -R-

  1512. Gnostic joe is unable to come to the phone right now, please leave a message. And he will get back to you at his earliest chance. 😉
    Thanks for your cooperation, Good- bye.

  1513. Debauch says SOON, Debauch says SOON, Debauch says SOON, Debauch says SOON, Debauch says SOON, Debauch says SOON.
    Nothing…Deebauchary is no better than hhhhHandy Pandy or Owain Gordy the third.
    Sounds like Santa Clause is coming SOON.
    Debauch has been removed from the con

  1514. Yes Rico you did ask many, many more questions. However just because I didn’t drop EVERYTHING I’m doing in order to answer them doesn’t mean I won’t or can’t. Also whatever answers I try to give will not be found out by googling them. But I’m not a scientist just someone who’s interested in science and the answers it offers. Unlike religion which still pushes ‘answers’ that are never challenged or are allowed to be challenged.
    man. I am so glad that my mind isn’t as small or closed as yours and amit’s and that fuckwit Madness

  1515. So Rico. I’m still waiting for the answers. What you’ve supplied are rehashed bullshit [as usual]

  1516. I have some of your ‘answers’, yes your science is real. There, point blank and simple. Allow me to clairfy, SCIENCE try combining pennies, dimes, and lemon juice. Sound weird? Well, now cut a piece of paper toweling into 1”x1” pieces, and soak your nine pieces thoroughly in the lemon juice, so that no part of the towel is dry. Stay with me. Then put one dime on a clean surface. Place a paper towel square over it, and then place a penny over that. Alternate this way, with a paper towel piece between each coin, until you have used ten coins. Still with mw science guy? Can you guess what i’m making??
    Now make sure your thumb and middle finger are wet, either with lemon juice or water. Pick up the stack using your thumb and middle finger, making sure that the finger is touching metal, not toweling. Now when you get Zapped, there, there is your battery. See, Science i get it. But you cannot, donot & shall never know where the spark, that gave you life came from. when you see Science, for what it is for… The electric force between two charged particles is much greater than the gravitational force between the particles. That is Science correct? You have no answer for this. Yet again i say i do. Electrical synapses, that go off in our complex & beautiful brains are the electric force charged between two particles. Creating a much greater gravitational force between the particles, here in front of you. An illusion, This effect is due to refraction. As light passes from one transparent medium to another, it changes speed, and bends. How much this happens depends on the refractive index of the mediums and the angle between the light ray and the line perpendicular to the surface separating the two mediums (medium/medium interface).
    And these are things your science cannot explain as well.
    But i can. For in the glory of God. You are but a servent. make no mistake that every soul is as important as every vote should be. these barriers are here for your protection, to test you & because you simply dont need to be involed yet. Would you rather believe God talked to ancient man & said here are my rules, keep the faith, i’ll be back.
    Or just by chance here we are. Wonder if we’re all alone, nope used to be Dinosaurs. Lucky for us the aliens didn’t take over then.
    What do you really believe???. look inside??. Do you really think you will get off that easy by dieing??

    But i challenge you now to read and show me you have knowledge of religion, not debunk it away. I have been blessed to try and show you that, Science can replace any organ and/or limb on a human. Except the brain. The most powerful computer known is the brain. It is easier to fix a computer – just get new parts. There are no new or used parts for the brain. soon our Father shall upgade us so to speak. The brain is always changing and being modified. There is no “off” for the brain – even when you are sleeping, your brain is still active and working. The computer only changes when new hardware or software is added or something is saved in memory. There IS an “off” for a computer. When the power to a computer is turned off, signals are not transmitted. Dont have Father turn you off.

  1517. Sorry, got a little ahead of my self, But you cannot, donot & shall never know where the spark, that gave you life came from. enless you find the one true God. ya know, ya ask how Rico and company can put up with narrow minded, how can you say you don’t believe if you don’t care to study it. I’m sure you tackled the subjects you liked at every angle? right? Thats why you watch sports..instead of play them. okay i’m going off the deep end..Have a good day.

  1518. Welcome back Raven T,

    I’m in the UK as you know…..but been watching Alaska situation closely. Not looking good, to say the least.
    The whole Ring of Fire seems like one huge caldera……with Hawaii as the pressure overflow……..if you get my drift. Every form of comunication is monitored……..so try not to worry about it. I’ll say this……I was warned re the Pacific Rim back in 1988……its just that back then approx 2015 was thought to be the year it caused problems.
    Be safe and be well,
    Leah

  1519. Dear Persona non Grata,
    Nice one re the coins etc.
    Re your reply to me earlier….when it comes to truth….it can never be too soon.
    Its a dilema, Earth cannot feed so many, yet the compassion in man wishes to save all lives…….the way I see it, truth is best not put off any longer.
    Be well, Leah

  1520. My day will ALWAYS be better than yours for the simple fact I’m not cowering waiting for a vengeful god to pounce on every mistake I make, failure to pray or sacrifice to it or tremble as I lie dying wondering if I’ll be condemned to damnation or be taken up to paradise. What an existence!

  1521. Who said any of that. Listen, STUPID read a book. No sacrificies, No wondering if you’ll be condemned to damnation or be taken up to paradise. Please before its too late, stop being scared of what you don’t know.
    Don’t you have questions you would like answered?
    i cannot force, but please….as you see I have given Scientific method refering to the bodies of techniques for investigating the phenomena, which is the spark of life. How to acquire new knowledge, & correcting and integrating the previous knowledge. …. You had about God.
    If you decide to get out of line again. We will let the Maddness loose on you. You will have to change your name after he is through with you. Be warned. Oh, & have a nice day.

    b’fore i go. Did your father or mother allow you to do what ever you wanted. Were you allowed to learn from your own mistakes & question their judgement at every turn? Or would you say they more or less were like ” vengeful gods waiting to pounce on every mistake you made”? Or so you thought at the time. Okay never mind.

  1522. Am I on the correct thread, I have only read the last five posts and am in awe of the discussion. Have any of you any idea of a volcano that is ready to erupt in Alaska. You must keep watch, very important. They are already taking down the inter-net & they have civilian camps here. I must sound crazy.
    If any one still cares about the geomagnetic reversal, please get the word out it is all connected by the ring. I have had e-mails from a person named Debauch, who despite the name i have come to trust very much. There is not much time, there are people who are worshipping the devil while you people are aruging whether or not God exsits.
    please check into the connection between the Okmok Volcano & Mount Redoubt which has been releasing more gases and the snow has melted that typically coats its summit; AVO raised the threat level from yellow to orange—the last stage before an actual eruption—this week.
    Okay, i’ve done my part. I ‘ll try to give more info, but this site may not be to safe to talk on. Call me a conspiracy theorist if you want. But I want to live & if you have seen what i have. You would be scared & ready.
    Good luck everyone & God bless

  1523. Amit,
    Did you hear the one about “Dark matter and Dark energy might be the same thing…..two sides of the same coin, as it were.”
    Be well, Leah

  1524. Handy Andy,

    Beter keep your foolish opinions about me to yourself only.. They are not worth even the Shit they appear to be!
    Put your hands to better use than typing rubbish.

  1525. Just a small point…..the methane that comes out of the backside of someone, anywhere in the world, effects all of the atmosphere for all life. Same with the sulphur etc from a volcano…….the effects are shared by all.
    People need to face upto the fact that, just because something isn’t happening in their back yard, doesn’t mean it won’t have any effect on them. It does……but if its not glitzy, it goes un-noticed. Bit like cancer…..the small signs go un-noticed.

  1526. Hey Leah!

    We are all well.. Hope the same for you..
    Dark Matter and Dark Energy , interesting..
    Got more on that?

  1527. Looks like its a day of the “returning” ones…
    Raven T, its been a long while..
    PNG, good to hear from you..
    JAT, You’ve been missing too..

  1528. Dear Maddness,

    You made a good point there in reply to Andy’s comments!

    Dear Becky,

    Thanks for replying in my defense… That statement by Andy was absolutely outrageous!! But its funny if you see who is doing most of the accusing!! Paul, with whom i am having most of these discussions doesn’t have any problems, but these phonies keep popping up to spout rubbish!!!
    If i ask a question, i get an answer, then if i provide a counter argument, is it a point blank refusal??

  1529. Paul,

    I understand your point… I guess an Evolutionary Biologist is the best person to answer these questions..
    Maybe, there is valid explanation.. But what i have got so far compels me to believe in the existence of a higher power..
    Some of these questions are simple enough to be pondered by non-scientists as well (Like the Origin of Sexes)… Evolutionary Theory already overly relies on the “Chance” factor, on top of that, saying that its another chance that some species evolved in pairs to enable reproduction is way too much to digest!

  1530. PNG,

    Spark of Life, yes thats an amazing thing…..

    But dont you know that that is also another “chance”…. Just like the correct DNA combination that the evolution stumbled upob “by chance” and then stopped!

    Funny,.Paul said that Evolution wold have stopped upon hitting the right combination!! Doesn’t that make “Evolution” an intelligent thing? In a way its like believing in a “Higher Inteligence” but not calling it God!!!

  1531. Paul,

    I am not refuting the fossil records…
    All i said was that there are “gaps” in the record,and this counters the Evolution Theory…

  1532. Another problem with Evolution Theory is that if proteins are the machinery of cells, the machinery of DNA replication, untwisting, proofreading, etc; then proteins would need to exist to ‘manage’ the DNA. But DNA is what proteins are assembled from (via RNA templates, and other proteins that work to build the new protein being transcribed, carry the amino acids, catalyse the reactions, etc). It is a catch-22 even at that simple level of understanding. And when you take into account ALL the pieces and parts of a simple cell. The myriad reactions taking place, the compartmentalization, the waste products that have to be removed, it becomes more than something you can explain with a simple roll of the dice.

    I will leave any conclusions up to the individual reader but for me it is nothing short of miraculous. And that is something that science can never conclude anything about one way or the other. It is both amusing and frustrating to hear science speak of spirituality. Because if something or someone did indeed ‘create’, then they lie outside the physical and are greater than the physical, and therefore ‘science’ — the study of the physical world — can’t actually study it or speak to it. It would have to be revealed in some way by the creator itself.

  1533. The underground bases could be because of paranoia…….just like the ancient underground towns e.g one in Turkey. If so, we are no more knowlegable or sphisticated than the ancients were…….question is, did they build then, as we have done now, for a reason ? We have built many more and on a grander scale. If its just paranoia, the powers that be are obviously way more paranoid and fearful than the ancients were.
    I don’t relish the concept of such paranoid people running the world, and the cost of such paranoia, to the masses.
    They are not paranoid….they’re knowlegable.

  1534. The volcanic activity in Alaska is of concern but really only for those in the immediate vicinity. It won’t be a continent buster though it may affect global weather patterns for a while if it’s on the same scale as Mt. St. Helens.
    The Pacific appears to be a giant caldera but that is merely an illusion causede by the overall shape and the hawaiian islands being slap bang in the centre.. Those islands are actually the result of a very hot plume of magma moving eastwards under the Pacific plate. As the plume rises it pushes through the plate and disgorges magma and lava onto the seabed and starts building up land. The volcanoes there are the highest structures on the planet some many thousands of feet higer than Everest from submarine base to summit. The oldest island is the western most.

  1535. PNG.
    I have to say it is not the role of science to prove or disprove the existence of god. That is in the realm of faith. Therefore asking how science explains the spark of life/the divine spark or however you designate it is beyond the scope of science to provide a meaningful answer.

  1536. “The volcanic activity in Alaska is of concern but really only for those in the immediate vicinity. It won’t be a continent buster though it may affect global weather patterns for a while if it’s on the same scale as Mt. St. Helens.”

    …paul–i know you did NOT mean that the way it sounded…just because that volcano is not sitting our back yards…it should not lessen the concern for anyone who will be directly or indirectly affected…well being for all…i know it cannot be controlled, but ya gotta be concerned for their well being, don’t ya think???

  1537. Yes of course one should be concerned about the impact a volcano would have on the people in the area even if it’s only a few hundred. But the general tone on this site regarding volcanoes, earthquakes, tsunamis etc is one of world-shattering catastrophes rather than the regular earth shake or volcanic burp.

  1538. Rico. We don’t take ourselves seriously in the way you appear to mean i.e. up ourselves. We do however take our work seriously in that we feel and hope it will bring an understanding of the world and universe around us. Also, we are not slackers just because we, or at least I, don’t post at weekends. This weekend was Six Nations weekend so I was glued to the television as no doubt was Owain and will be for the next seven weeks.
    With regard to the many UFO sightings by airline pilots etc. some of the sightings have been proved to be Venus [yes, I find it difficult to believe that experienced pilots fall for that but they do], some are undoubtedly secret/stealth aeroplanes and others may even be alien spacecraft BUT until they are proved to that then we have to say the jury is out. Just because they could be doesn’t make it so.
    It Britain 15-20 years ago off the east coast mysterious smoke trails were seen in the daylight sky [winter around 8.00 in the mornings]. I saw them when travelling to work. Imagine a series of smoke-rings stretching two hand-spans at arms length across the sky. There didn’t appear to be anything at the leading edge of the smoke. A couple of years later a report appeared in a national newspaper regarding a woman in the east of Scotland who had reported something very similar to the local police. They apparently kicked it upstairs and within a week she had received a visit from a couple of guys in greatcoats asking her what she’d seen. She told them and their response was, “You haven’t seen anything” She said, “Yes I have it was….” ” Madam, I repeat you have seen nothing”. ” But I saw….”. “You didn’t see a thing”. It was only after the F117, I think, came into the public arena that she felt able to ‘go public’.
    However even if 99%+ of these things are ultimately explained as earthly phenomena the remained do present a problem.

  1539. Yes Leah the volcanic emissions will have an effect but in the case of this one in Alaska it won’t really alter the long-term climate for good or ill. The scale of emissions are likely to be absorbed by and smeared out by the atmosphere relatively quickly.

  1540. Leah: As we are many light years above the galactic plane at the moment actually sending probes there would take millions of years to get there and any information they sent back would also take millions of years travelling at the speed of light. However by turning telescopes on the galactic plane and attaching many different detecting devices to the business end we can find out what is there. What we find is mostly dust with some gas. The reason we can’t see through to the other side of the galaxy is that the dust obscures virtually everything beyond at visible wavelengths. Luckily radio and microwaves are able to pass through almost unhindered. Analysis of the dust shows the presence of elements such as silicon, iron, aluminium, carbon as well as complex molecules like formaldehyde, methane, ethane, cyanide etc. The gas is mainly hydrogen, molecular and atomic, carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide, oxygen etc etc. So we do take an interest in the galactic plane just as much as any other part of our galaxy or other one. Far in the future when the solar system is at its highest point over the plane we will have a better view of the Milky Way and will be able to see over the central bulge. That always supposes that the dominant life form here still has an interest in the sky and what’s there.
    The construction of underground bases/bunkers doesn’t have to be an effect of consequence of anything other than paranoia.
    Rico. I take issue with your comment that all ‘our’ accumulated knowledge is worthless crap. Can you justify this? Also I can assure that no answer I’ve given has been googled. And I would probably say the same for Owain, Gordy [as fellow astronomers] and Kevin who is a professional archaeologist. No need to google answers when it’s your job. Whether you like us or the answers we provide they are professional answers.

  1541. Madness: ‘Getting into religion it will help your science’ or however you put it is NOT the answer. They two mutually exclusive disciplines. One deals with faith the other with facts that lead to a faith as in ‘the vaccine has been proved to be effective therefore I faith it will cure the disease’.

  1542. please forgive my interruption, once again, but this evening, i would like to send my most heartfelt concerns and condolences for those in australia who are being ravaged by those wildfires…a couple of our “friends” from this thread live there, and i am hoping and praying for your safety and well-being…please be safe…stay well, and best wishes to you all…thoughts and prayers are with you…

  1543. Becky,

    I share your sentiments…
    Its sad to see lives lost, anywhere, for whatever reason…
    May the departed souls rest in peace and the near and dear ones that they left behind have strength to bear with their tragedy….

  1544. Paul,

    I hope what you say about the Alaska Volcano is right.. It seems logical.
    BTW, just wanted to know how much impact will it create on the already disappearing Glaciers/Ice belts of Alaska?
    Will it speed up the process , or it will block the Sun Light and actually help preserve them… Please ignore my ignorance on this….

  1545. Dear Leah,

    Interesting thought about the DUMBS…..

    The thought that they are “knowledgeable” is scarier than the thought that they are paranoid…

    Paranoia surrounding an impending catastrophe is usually more harmful than the catastrophe itself.. All the principles are forgotten and people tend to themselves first…The true animal instincts are revealed…

  1546. Thanks Paul,
    Sorry to ask you this ……do we have an approx rate / speed at which our solar system orbits the milky way, and what is the approx total distance of one orbit of the milky way ?
    Be well, Leah

  1547. If the Alaskan volcano does erupt the overall effect on local glaciers will probably be negligible unless of course a glacier is slap bang on top or alongside. The gases emitted won’t affect even close by ice sheets. Depending on how much sulphuric acid is erupted there could be short-term global cooling as the droplets are very efficient sunlight reflectors. If I recall correctly after Mt. Pinatubo erupted the global temperature dropped by 0.5*C which is a huge amount.

  1548. The possible paranoia behind the underground bunkers is founded in the paranoia of the Cold War and thinking all-out thermonuclear war was survivable.

  1549. good morning, all

    re: those underground bunkers…it is just a thought that somebody knows something–they just aren’t saying what…in the meantime, we are left to speculate about it and pretty much “..’fend for ourselves”…you can believe that none of us will be “privy” to them…for me–that’s okay!!! i still cannot shake off the thought that they ,someday , will become “tombs” for those they were built to protect…

    had a rather obscure thought this morning regarding the fires in australia…last summer, it was believed that an arsonist started the fires that burnt almost a million acres of land in southern california…6 months later, almost directly across the globe from southern california, melbourne is now experiencing the same thing…fires believed to be started by arsonists…maybe a coincidence—but cause and effect just keep bouncing back and forth across our planet…

    thanks for indulging me, once again…please stay safe and be well…

  1550. Leah. We are at present around 60 light years above the plane of the Milky Way and climbing. We will start our downward movement when at a ‘height’ above the plane of around 200 light years. Try to imagine the horses on the merry-go-round bobbing up and down as they revolve around the central engine. That’s roughly how the solar system revolves round and up and down in its journey around the galaxy.

  1551. Heya Peoples!

    Looking back somewhat to see what was posted I only see that Paul requested an explanation.

    Paul what I mean when I say that the accumulated knowledge so far by yourself and you can include me in there too doesn’t amount to crap when you consider all there is to know and learn.

    Sometimes we think we’re smart about something and we meet someone that makes us feel under-informed. I’m sure that even in your field of expertise there is more to learn than you have already learned. That goes without saying. So to make a decision as to wether or not you beleive in God or gods or whatever using the limited amount of knowledge that we have would be tantamount to conceit or arrogance.

    Thats my opinion. Also with regards to the pilots sighting being explained away to the tune of an exagerated 90 something % I think thats inaccurate to say the least. We’re not talking about venus here I myself have seen the recently released film of the chase in south america. They braodcast it on the news over there. Those people are getting tired of having these things explained away and they are now making them public.

    It was multiple military aircraft in pursuit of several UFO’s for a lengthy period of time. There was no mistaking what they were chasing. This was filmed and viewed and tracked by ground radar.

    This event is not unique. All of the astronauts have seen UFO’s. They are briefed and debriefed and told not to speak of this.

    Some astronauts have come forward on this.

    If my memory serves correct when I first met you in here you were insane. You came in calling us idiots just as Owain and his friends continue to do today.

    I no longer include you with Owain, Hanky Panky, that other dude from australia whatever his name is.

    You changed and we now see your true character. I charged your initial attitude to a brain fart and I don’t hold it against you but these other clowns forget it.

    Simply go back and re-read some of their post. They have post that don’t mention anything with content. Just babble about Amit this and Amit and Rico that, all bullshit.

    They don’t contribute anything at all.

    I can’t predict the future but you people can’t tell me that everythings ok. Todays news is like nothing I’ve ever experienced.

    Its like an escalation of something.

    I love the way this assclown Handyman Andy posted his last crap. He sounded like he was whining.

    Its a beautiful life people. Breathe that air!!

    Like us dunnies like to say, not for nothing but no one can actually predict what would happen in Alasaka until that monster erupts. Then we can say whats going to be affected.

    Depends how much ash and where the winds blowing I imagine.

    Somethings we cant control or predict.

    -R-

  1552. Handy Andy Says:
    February 8th, 2009 at 11:56 am
    My day will ALWAYS be better than yours for the simple fact I’m not cowering waiting for a vengeful god to pounce on every mistake I make, failure to pray or sacrifice to it or tremble as I lie dying wondering if I’ll be condemned to damnation or be taken up to paradise. What an existence!

    Andy if this is what you envision modern day man doing then you’re behind the times.

    When I speak here about God or gods you I’m speaking of man like aliens that came here long ago and tampered with mans DNA.

    I’m not sitting here lighting candles and killing chickens dude.

    By the way that thread you wrote was in response to “have a nice day”.

    See Paul?

    This is the “type” of person that this site attracts. We have the casual entry telling us the worlds going to ned but we have more of Andys type coming in here like they were gods and know it all.

    Anyway, dinners up.

    Laters

    -R-

  1553. doubling, Leah.
    To Paul, ” have to say it is not the role of science to prove or disprove the existence of god”. If I may, everyone is born with innate (or natural) immunity, correct? a type of general protection that humans have. Evolution states that animals and plants developed by a process of gradual, continuous change from previously existing forms.
    How did you develop immune response, Science cannot answer any of these questions. There are cure for Aids & Cancer. Make no mistake in that. But they have never cured the common cold.
    Have you noticed how U.F.O’s in the 50-60, do not look like the modern ones of the 06-08?.
    Why didn’t they see ships from star wars back then? Science does answer the questions,but doesn’t ask the right one.
    I’m not trying to argue about his facial features, or here to turn atheist into believers. i’m just trying to say the way school needs teachers, the reason there are no real preachers. Thats the reason we need Jesus.
    Cuz you can talk about sex,drugs lies & videos tapes but if you talk about God your told to go away. HUH?
    So, you say it is not the role of science to prove or disprove the existence of god. I say it is because “All of man’s knowledge is folly before God.”
    May you find your light
    Gnostic joe

  1554. Dear Joe,

    Good to hear from you…

    And valid points raised too…

    Expecting Science to Prove/Disprove God is unfair, because its something which is way beyond its sphere.

    If Science is able to explain certain phnomenon, it doesn’t mean that they have proved that its not the work of God.
    Whatever Science is able to discover slowly, is actually the work of God.

  1555. Dear Paul,
    The 220 km per second = 792,000 km per hour….. is the previously believed rotation rate of the Milky Way. The rotational speed of the Milky Way has recently been put at 914,000 km per hour =254 km/sec.
    Did you mean the rotational speed of the Milky Way…..or is it also the rate of orbit aof our solar system around the galaxy ?

  1556. Blanketing effect of earth’s crust also creates pressure / compression. Increase in pressure causes increase in temperature.

  1557. Natural selection is why immunity is passed on. Those who survive the illness pass on the genes/ability that give that immunity. The organisms that are unable to combat a life-threatening condition simply die. Look at the way the Black Death ravaged Europe and Asia Minor in the 14th century. As many as 50% of the population died as a result. All of us alive today are here because our ancestors were able to survive the plague. [probably a combination of blind luck and natural immunity.
    Finding a cure for the common cold is very difficult because the virus or viruses mutate quickly.
    With reference to the shapes of ufos changing over the past 50 or so years. How can you say that when we don’t have any, or even one, to compare? I’ve not seen one in the Science Museum in London and I was there in December. Not heard of one in the Smithsonian either. If you are going to tell me there is a whole squadron of them in Area 51/S4 then can you publish pictures or direct us to where we can view them. Once again I see we’re going back to a point where only ‘those in the know’ or ‘those of us who have inside contacts’ know of the existence of these things.

  1558. Hey Rico,

    About UFOs, i would say there is no smoke without a fire… So there is something definitely fishy… You cannot doubt the credentials of so many trained Air Force Pilots..
    Remember, sometime back i referred a page which shows UFOs depicted in ancient art? That holds lot of credibility as well.. Because there was no “UFO Craze” during those times.. And one cannot say that they all used their imaginations to paint “Spaceships”…

    Here is the link for those who missd it –

    http://www.sanandaseagles.com/pages/spacecraft_in_art.html

    Yes, life is beautiful…

  1559. Here is something about Moon, which i stumbled upon –

    The academic community in general is perhaps understandably hostile to the idea that the Earth is anything other than natural; after all to seriously consider such an idea would be to dramatically rewrite our understanding of science as we know it. Cosmologists have always assumed that the Earth and the moon were created together, probably as the result of a collision, yet there is a growing suspicion that our knowledge of the moon is surprisingly incomplete.

    We’ve known since the seventies when a sizable amount of data was gathered from the Lunar Orbiter experiments that the moon may be hollow. The impact from the jettisoned lunar modules unexpectedly caused artificial moon quakes that lasted for up to three hours, supporting the conclusion that the moon has no substantial core. According to scientists who have calculated the moon’s mass, it seems our enigmatic satellite is too light, too big and according to moon rocks that the Apollo missions brought back, too old to be explained by physics or cosmology.

    Just as the Earth sits in a perfect position to support life, the moon plays a vital role in supporting that life. The moon acts as our counterbalance, stabilising the movement of the Earth and regulating our tides – without the moon’s influence, Earth would be a very different place. The moon’s gravitational field and precise location means that it also acts as a shield, protecting us from catastrophic meteor impacts that would otherwise have wiped out life on Earth many times over. If extraterrestrials have had a hand in the creation process then this might explain the lunar anomalies that cosmology can’t account for. The moon may well have been placed in her current orbit quite deliberately, not by a supernatural God or chance, but rather by ancient extraterrestrial civilisations that may have long gone, or which may still monitor, manipulate and nurture what is in effect, a massive alien ant farm.

  1560. Leah: The speed around the galaxy is about 220 kilometres a second and the distance the solar system travels in one orbit is 157,000 light years. This is deduced from 2 times Pi times 25,000 where 25,000 is the distance in light years from the centre of the Milky Way.

  1561. And this is about Earth –
    (Perhaps Paul could explain…)

    While the moon appears to lack a core, in contrast the Earth’s core is thought to be a two-part construction, consisting of an inner core of solid iron, which is encased by a molten core. This is a very significant arrangement as it is responsible for generating the all important magnetic field that protects the Earth from the cosmic radiation that constantly bombards our planet. The Earth’s outer core has remained molten for over 4 billion years but there is no satisfactory explanation as to why it has remained so after such an incredible length of time; that fact alone defies scientific explanation. Author Robert Berringer makes the following observation on the subject:

    “If someone tells you that radioactive decay keeps the mantle molten, ask him which isotopes have a half life over five billion years and how many gigatons of these rare radioactive isotopes would be required to keep our iron core molten. Most scientific theories say that the solar system formed about five billion years ago, and radioactive materials with very long half lives are rare in the solar system. We don’t know of any significant amount of heat producing radioactive materials with a half life of over a billion years that has ever been found in meteors, asteroids or moon rocks.”

    So why has the Earth’s mantle remained in a molten state? According to Berringer, some scientists have calculated that the Earth requires nothing short of a nuclear reactor to keep our iron core molten. It seems that the Earth isn’t just special; it is unique in every sense of the word, from its location to its design and construction. Whether this uniqueness is part of a grand design or a product of random chance remains to be seen.

  1562. Many people forget that Darwin’s theory remains only a theory; it has never been proved to be fact in the same way that intelligent design hasn’t. It is quite possible that there are elements of truth in both theories but Darwinism seems increasingly unable to support all the questions raised concerning the origin of life on our planet. When we look at ourselves in terms of Darwinism for example, there is very little by way of evidence to support the idea of mankind’s gradual evolution from primates; there seems to be a massive missing link.
    We know that throughout history there have been many humanoid species present on Earth, ranging from the tiny Flores people whose height averaged just one meter, to far more robust species such as Neanderthal man, who have inexplicably died out. The bones of the first Neanderthal were about 50% thicker than those of the average modern human, and clearly belonged to an extraordinarily athletic and muscular individual. Many anthropologists find the extinction of these other races, particularly the Neanderthal, as being highly irregular. If any species were born to survive it was the Neanderthal, yet they inexplicably died out. How could this be and why has the Homo sapien alone survived?

    One theory is that there was deliberate intervention to select and breed Homo sapiens either in the same way that we select and breed our cattle today or by deliberate manipulation of DNA, implying that any alien intervention may have been an on going process, rather than being limited to the point of creation. If radical changes did suddenly occur in our DNA then this of course points to deliberate and powerful intervention which can only be explained as being of a probably extraterrestrial nature. We know from the genetic research conducted by author and researcher Brian Sykes that Homo sapiens seem to have evolved from an incredibly, unfeasibly small gene pool with no provable link to more primitive species. This lends itself to the idea of intervention in the gene pool rather than natural selection.

  1563. Hi Paul,
    The new revised galactic rate of rotation is 254 km/sec. Its OK….I know its a revised more accurate calculation…..hope I didn’t say anything to imply the galaxy rate of rotation has recently increased……don’t believe I did.
    I’m conversant with the lets say spiralling path, of the solar systems orbit around the milky way. Worked that one out long time ago.
    Hopefully you meant that “The Solar System doesn’t follow a simple orbit etc”. Don’t want others to get confused.
    Re pressure….its often forgotten or left out, like centrifugal force. The effects of sound waves under pressure is big never mind matter under pressure.
    Be well, Leah.

  1564. So, was God an ancient astronaut then or what? It’s an exciting possability. Just think. your ancesters came from the stars.

  1565. The idea that the earth’s core and those of the other rocky planets is molten and kept molten by the decay of radioactive isotopes isn’t too fantastic or farfetched. There are two main reasons why the core is molten – in fact probably just two. As the earth coalesced the impacts and frictional energy would have heated the rocks, dust etc to white heat. As more an more rocks piled in they too would have heated the earth AND basically formed a blanket over the hot core. During the following 100,000 years or so the elements differentiate with he heavy ones sinking to the centre[iron, nickel, uranium, thorium etc] and the lighter ones rising [silicon, aluminium, magnesium etc] Within a fairly short time the mantle and crust have sealed in all this heat and the only time it got released was when the fairly new crust was punctured by comets, asteroids and meteors and of course volcanic eruptions. The decay of radioactive elements does contribute considerably to the heating process for although the half lives may be less than 5 billion years [and some aren’t] the heat they produce has no easy way to dissipate or disperse. The heat produced is passed into the existing furnace-like conditions. This combined with the blanketing effect of the thick mantle/crust means that a white-hot core can indeed last for 5 billion years and will probably last until the sun swells to its red giant phase. I think non-specialists don’t take into account the immense thickness of the earth overlying the core – I think it’s roughly 8,000 miles [taking away the diameter of the inner and outer core from the diameter of the earth itself. It only appears to defy understanding.

  1566. Nah. God was a Slender Loris.
    Hi Rico and amit. How’s it hanging? I see Rico has misplaced the aluminium foil hat again. Yah great galloping lizard.

  1567. Leah: Good point about the pressure/compression effects of the thick crust leading to raised temperatures.
    The question about the solar system’s speed of rotation and galactic rotation is a very good one and perceptive. There is actually a difference albeit slight. The differences you highlight in the figure I quote and the very recent one is not due to a speeding up of rotation but rather a refined figure due to better observations. The earth doesn’t follow a simple orbit at the same discrete distance as the planets. As we discussed previously it bobs up and down through the galactic plane but it also is moving inwards slightly at a fairly slow speed. If you know the stars and constellations of the late spring/early summer you may be aware of the constellation of Hercules. Our system is moving in that general direction. Therefore there at least three motion components. Also you may be interested to know that the plane of our solar system [the ecliptic] is not lined up with the plane of the galaxy but is tilted at 90* so our north pole, and that of the sun [when projected onto the sky], is pointing in the direction of travel – more or less. So the speed of OUR system is around 254 Km/s. Off the top of my head I think the rotational speed of the galaxy is slightly faster. Try googling or yahooing it.

  1568. Paul,

    Thanks for the explanation..
    But, i have one doubt.. Can heat be sealed in?? It is bound to be absorbed by the sealing material itself and lose temperature gradually…
    And as for Copmpression/Pressure, is it enough to generate so much heat??

  1569. Dear Paul,

    If we are indeed 60 light years above the galactic plane…..a galactic year is approx 220 million years, and one orbit is 157,000 light years in distance……our solar system covers 1 light year approx every 1400 years. So the last time our solar system crossed the galactic plane was 1400 yrs X 60 light years = approx 84,000 years ago.

    There are some that think that we are crossing the galactic plane now from above to below the plane……and be aligned with the plane in 2012. Could you provide one reliable website for people to check this out for themselves,.
    Be well, Leah

  1570. Amit: No, the heat cannot be sealed in permanently. The crust and mantle are far from perfect insulators so heat is transferred by conduction and released through volcanic eruptions on land, under the sea and by sea-floor spreading. As for compression/pressure generating heat one only has to pump up a bicycle tyre with a hand pump to see how much heat is generated by the compression of air. Pile a load of bed clothes onto the bed and see how quickly you heat up. Then imagine the billions of tons of rock piled up on top of the cores. That’s one way the cores stay molten and very hot over the lifespan of the planets.

  1571. Gordy and Thrashing Breath you are heretics. God was a bush baby. You will be eternally damned for your heresy!! [Shouting]

  1572. From my understanding we crossed the galactic plane some two million years ago. If you take the raw figures for the speed of travel around, up and down and present positions then 84,000 is a reasonable number but that fails to take into account other factors like sideways movements, drag caused by gas, a speeding up effect from passing stars, gas clouds etc etc.
    As I said yesterday it will take many thousands or tens of thousands of years before we reach our furthest extent above the galaxy.
    An awful lot of confusion has arisen about the so-called alignment of the solar system plane and the galactic plane in 2012. Our plane coincides with the galactic plane twice a year during the equinoxes I think. Or maybe the solstices.. If our solar system’s ‘north pole’ pointed in the same direction as the galactic north pole [instead of at 90*] our plane/ecliptic would always be aligned.
    Check out the two sites below where you may find further explanations.

    http://biocab.org/Coplanarity_Solar_System_and_Galaxy.html

    http://solar-center.stanford.edu/FAQ/Qsolsysspeed.html

  1573. Dear Debauch,

    Are you refering to, the infringement of free will as well ?
    What is called….delusion / veil / confusion, has in itself been woven a little too tight. I do not perceive of an Ultimate Creative Force, as being anything else other than present in everything, everywhere, always, and with the freedom to inter act.

    I have to ask at this stage, but without naivety……..what are your intentions ?
    Be well, and welcome back,
    Leah

  1574. Dear Paul,
    Sorry to say that the sites you mention are not visible on my view of the thread.
    Be well, Leah

  1575. Who on this thread thinks that the status quo of the world today, came about by accident…..just one of those things…..like life on Earth. E.g. Banks don’t do business based on faith in their clients…….so how come so many lent money based on faith alone…..no security.
    Nothing is by accident…..even wars are planned.

  1576. Dear Paul, you say, ‘Ah. This is how schisms occur in religion’. In that you mean or refer to The Great Schism, the split between the Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church in the eleventh century. The story of three men who contested the Papacy. A greater one, you are a part of. I would like to make something clear for you, but only if you allow me.
    Do you understand the term “Kick the bucket”, it is a American expression, originated in that part of the world meaning that some one has died. You may have used the term or heard it somewhere before. My point is, if you were from, I dont know, China or better yet Tibet.
    If someone told you, your friend has Kicked the bucket, you would assume..he was somewhere kicking a bucket. You understand? Its not that you dont understand the words, you just didn’t get the meaning. Understand? I pray you get these!

    For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. And then, that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth & bring to an end by the apperance of his coming; that is the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of satan, with all power & signs & false wonders, & WITH ALL THE DESCEPTION OF WICKEDNESS FOR THOSE WHO PERISH BECAUSE THEY DID NOT RECEIEVE THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH SO AS TO BE SAVED and for this reason GOD WILL SEND UPON THEM A DELUDING INFLUENCE SO THAT THEY MIGHT BELIEVE WHAT IS FALSE IN ORDER THAT THEY ALL MAY BE JUDGED WHO DID NOT BELIEVE THE TRUTH, but instead took pleasure in wickedness.

  1577. I was being facetious with that comment about a schism. One of the things that has characterised ALL religions is a tendency for adherents to dispute the teachings, origins etc of their chosen religion. Look at Shia and Sunni Islam, Anglicanism and Roman Catholicism; Hinduism and Sikhism. Here in Britain we know the expression ‘to kick the bucket’.
    I would appreciate it if you didn’t quote religion at me. I am an atheist and very pleased and contented to be so. I find religion to be extremely unsatisfactory on practically every level. As I have said in response to both Amit and Rico I am willing to discuss and answer questions [should any here ask for answers] on astronomy, geology and archaeology. I have no interest whatsoever in talking about religion. Not as some have intimated because I’m afraid, don’t have the balls to talk about it, don’t have the intellect or intelligence etc etc.

  1578. Leah: Have you had time to check either of those sites I mentioned? I think one of them has an animation of our orbit around the Milky Way. There are certainly a few diagrams which may shed some light.

  1579. Leah: If the links didn’t appear try Googling or Yahoo-ing something like Solar System’s position/movement/speed in the Milky Way. One I gave was, I think, one associated with Stanford Uni.

  1580. hi, leah–nope–nothing by chance…if i had to take a SWAG at it, my guess would be it started around WWII…just prior to pearl harbor…just a guess, though…

    please be well…

  1581. clarification—regarding our current-day situation…it started with oil back then…and has perpetuated…

  1582. Dear Leah,

    Agree with becky.. Nothing by chance… There is no such thing as “chance” when you are considering the scale of these event…

    I hope the Green Revolution speeds up and makes oil a redundant commodity, putting an end to the power struggle caused by it…

  1583. Dear Debauch,

    Good to hear from you…. That was a long absence. Hope all is well with you….

    I hope i will find my light before i “kick the bucket” ..

  1584. Hey peoplez, This is looking good with the exception of the peanut gallery of course.

    When I talk about religion I refer to the history. I am not a believer in an all knowing, omnpotent, mystical god.

    I belive that religion is a remnant of something that occurred here long ago.

    The ancient atronaut theory is not a foregon conclusion as the jury is still out on this.

    Nothing is science until it is proven fact so when it comes to this theory we have to further wait until more facts are revealed to us about ancient religions.

    I do not spout heaven and hell as I don’t believe in the concept the origins of which are very doubtful. The devil or adversary or whatever is probably a hebrew invention as there is no character as such in the sumerian versions.

    Christian evangelist say that mans reason for existaing is for the glory of God. This is an insane theory due to the fact that this goal is obtainable. Whta happens when everyone has received the word? Our existance is satistfied? No.

    No one can explain a reason for mans existance, science says we’re an aberation, a sort of mistake.

    The way its described in ancient history man has no real reason to exist other than basically being slaves to these ancients gods.

    It seems we’re descendants of abandoned slaves such as it is.

    Makes more sense to me when viewing the total picture than what science offers while being found wanting with regards to data.

    In the end the fact remains that the first God or gods should they have existed at all did not originate on this planet therefore they remain aliens.

    I find it hard to believe that any scientist would scoff at this theory. It explains so much.

    If you don’t believe in UFO’s then you are totally mistaken.

    This whole subject is much more controversial than you guys know.

    And thats all I have to say about that.

    -R-

  1585. Hey Rico,

    You made a very good point…

    Another thing which relates to the Abandoned Slaves theory, in my view, is that Humans are subordinate by nature.. We are all happy to follow where others lead. This is reflected everywhere.. In offices, we need so many Managers just to “Manage” people.. We need “Politicians” to lead us and Governments to rule us…
    Its an inborn instinct to obey… True for most people. Agree there are people who have the instinct to lead, but those are very few and far between..

  1586. Paul,

    I have a question for you to answer…
    What do you think about our Solar System.. Did it evolve, and if so, how did it evolve?

  1587. The solar system evolved!? What are you talking about Amrit? Wasn’t it just placed here in the last few thousand years? I mean, the science behind stellar physics can’t be right even though the same science is used to make the aircraft you fly in, the plastics/metals/synthetics you use everyday, an outside chance nuclear energy provides the electricity you use to operate the computer that evolved from science and technology…but most reasonably, it couldn’t be the same science is right about evolution of species/planets/solar systems or otherwise right!

  1588. Cronos D,

    I am not sure if i understand what you mean to imply….
    I just asked a question… Its clear that i am asking about Paul’s opinion, i am not stating that Solar System Evolved…
    Perhaps, you did not read carefully, if you did, you would have noticed that there is no “R” in my name..

  1589. Amit: The solar system didn’t evolve in the in the same sense as life evolved It has certainly changed over 4.6 thousand million years. I’ll give you an explanation later as I’m rather busy at the moment.

  1590. No Problem Paul…. I’m not in a hurry either…
    BTW, there are 2 major views relating to the formation of the Solar System. One theory says that planets formed when a star, passing near our Sun, tore matter from the Sun. More popular theories hold that the solar system formed from a cloud of swirling gas, dust, or larger particles.
    Which one do you subscribe to?

  1591. Plasma Astrophysics and Cosmology is a worthwhile subject to check out……in connection with our location in the Milky Way and effects.
    Some like Anthony L. Peratt take into account ancient records, carvings, cave paintings etc, as opposed to dismissing them out of hand.

  1592. The most likely scenario is the the solar system formed from a huge cloud of slowly rotating and slowly collapsing dust and gas. This rotation/collapse was caused by nearby supernovae. Over a few million years the core compressed and ‘ignited’ [the compression caused nuclear fusion]. During this T-Tauri stage the planets coalesced and started on their merry way. Over the next 4.5 billion years the planets and the system changed though to say it evolved would be to give the wrong impression. It only evolved in that it got older and changed.
    I personally subscribe to this version. The idea that a passing star pulled matter from our sun which condensed into planets [which was put forward by James Jeans in the 1920’s I think] is now largely discredited. Problems over momentum and of course close passing etc cause huge difficulties. I think most astronomers feel that if any solar systems ARE created this way they are very few and far between.
    For more detailed explanations any reputable web site or introductory book on the subject will help you out.

  1593. I would like to share another scenario with the class, please feel free to comment.

    Ok,…A huge cloud of slowly rotating and slowly collapsing dust and gas. As the rotation builds faster & faster, the collapsing implode and explode. All the building blocks of life being smashed together.

    Like the LHC, anything & everything is forming,dissipating. All the while, the cloud, no longer a cloud. Has become more soild hot…& with alot of built up energy. The crescendo & BANG.

    When all the energy is released. The universe as we know is born/created. The stars depending on mass. Are flung to thier present positions by the after effects of the maximum kinetic energy, that had been amassed in the cloud.

    Gravity/time space unified, Supernovas occur, nuclear fusion, planets coalesced. During the T-Tauri stage, before the planets began to find their orbits. As they span in the void. Chunks flew off at great speed. some of which became comets.

    It also explains why comets contain, the building blocks of life. Over the next 4.5 billion years the planets and the system evolved in that planets were spaced out, moons found homes & life began to form.

    Soooooooooo, Anybody got something to say.
    I have one more thing to add, but not a lot of time right now.
    Be back after the DS-9 marathon..

  1594. I heard that the geomagnetic reversal has not been occured for some millions of years since last time it happened. This worries me because it can happen anytime soon?

  1595. I heard that the geomagnetic reversal has not been occured for some millions of years since last time it happened. This worries me because it can happen anytime soon?

  1596. Whats with the males always bickering and name calling……posturing and inviting eachother to playground type fights.
    Seems that boys never really do grow up….their toys just get more expensive and dangerous…..but they remain boys.

    Is it any wonder the world is in the state its in ?

  1597. Last time I heard “he started it”…. was from grown educated men in my own hotel bar, who behaved like boys in school…..disagreement between them often leading to the other word…..OUTSIDE, to settle the disagreement (which was usually misunderstanding) with fists.

    Anyone can put an end to such behaviour, by simply not fueling it……others may try to start an argument…..but it depends on whether others join in.

  1598. Each is at liberty to hold to their opinions and beliefs….until such time as they themselves discover such things as to change their opinions and beliefs.

    No one is at liberty to force their opinions or beliefs upon another.
    Anyone adopting the opinions and beliefs of another, without self discovery…..is a sheeple.

  1599. Sorry Madness but you’re off beam by a long way with some of your comments. E.g You say, ” Ok,…A huge cloud of slowly rotating and slowly collapsing dust and gas. As the rotation builds faster & faster, the collapsing implode and explode…….. When all the energy is released. The universe as we know is born/created.” The rotating gas formed the solar system, it was NOT the Big Bang.

    You also say,'”As they span in the void. Chunks flew off at great speed. some of which became comets.”
    Again this is not how the comets were formed. Comets are the remnants of the dust and gas that wasn’t swept up and incorporated into the planets. As they hadn’t much mass any close encounter with planetary bodies threw them into highly eccentric orbits.

  1600. oh,Oh…My bad. I had no idea you were there.
    Thank you for clearly showing me the error in my thoughts. Rotating gas, NOT the Big Bang & NOT God. Wow, & you know that? How again?
    IN THEORY, EVERYTHING IS POSSIBLE.
    Except God & the Big Bang. Right?
    So your “THEORY” is better than mine, because you claim to be a scientist? Well, I just happen to have one of my own with credentials you can check.
    See, Raven T. is an offical member of scientific community & team D&G. & she totally agrees with the scenario I gave. & has had her papers published in the SEJ.
    Check it out.
    Sooooo Pauly-baby, but you’re off beam by a long way with some of your comments.

  1601. Oh & by the way. The gas,clouds,creation
    GET ON YOUR KNEES & THAT GOD FOR THE BREATH IN YOUR LUNGS.
    now back to Ds-9

  1602. IF you care to read what I’ve written you may be able to work out that what I said was that your comment that the rotating gas sparked the Big bang is wrong because we’re talking about the formation of the solar system The B/B sprang from the decay of the false vacuum. The B/B produced the matter from which the solar system originated.
    And yes, “my” theory is better than yours.
    Raven has made some highly unscientific comments

  1603. If any scientist thinks let alone says that the big bang started out as a swirling cloud of gas then they’re fucking stupid. If Raven whoever he/she is then he/she is a fucking idiot. “Agrees with my scenario”. Bollocks. You Madness are a drooling cretin.

    Congratulations Paul on such a well mannered reply. I have no compunction in calling him or her a fool/fraud.

  1604. Hey Andy Dick,
    What the fuck do you know? Can you say for a fact how the Clouds formed? Or if there was a Big Bang at all??? No, Right fuck-face!!
    Raven happens to have a web-site with”her” work well documented. do you??
    She has given her first & last name, & place of employment. A real scientist. what the fuck are you???
    You didn’t even read the words I wrote correctly. Maybe i should’ve added pictures so your dumb-ass could’ve kept up.
    Although the only thing you got right was “You Madness are a drooling cretin.”
    But its only because, my mouth waters uncontrollably at the chance to meet idots as yourself.
    I mean you have the never to call someone a fool & you start your sentence with “If any scientist thinks let alone says.” You couldn’t proff read your jabbering. Dumb-ass.

  1605. Paul, I got no beef with you. It’s not Gods fault you and your friends were picked on in school. Or that your only friends…if you guys have friends..are animals or your guild members online.
    You may not believe in God, but God believes in you. And when your time comes, when your scared to die or when you wish for someone else to live. You’ll pray or should i say beg.
    I’ll pray for you now, that it wont be to little to late. Take it from me.

  1606. Madness: If your degenerate creator/god ever has the nerve to appear on earth he should be dragged kicking and screaming to the UN and the gibbering idiot will have to explain to the world why he demands prayer/praise in return for nothing; why he allows his subjects to suffer as they have done through the ages etc etc etc.
    Team D&G? Dolce & Gabana? Ha! You’re like Rico, a galloping lizard and an illiterate.

  1607. You must really stop and think, plz B4 you write something again. Have God answer to the U.N.?
    WTF is wrong with you’s. Would you make your parents have to answer for the lessons they taught you?
    Did you question everything your dad said?
    Or did you just do what was told, with out question.

  1608. In my defence, that bloke opened his cakehole & crap fell out. Any argy-bargy was started on that Charliehead side. He got me dicky & arse over tit.

  1609. Paul,

    If the planets and their known moons evolved from the same material , they should have many similarities.
    But, still we some planets spinning backward and some planets have backward orbits too. What do you think might have caused such differences?
    Moreover, as per the Dust/Gasl Cloud Theory, The Sun should have about 700 times more angular momentum than all the planets combined. Instead, the planets have 50 times more angular momentum than the Sun….

  1610. Another point is that If the Earth and solar system evolved from a swirling cloud of dust and gas, almost no water would reside near Earth’s present orbit. Any water (liquid or ice) that close to the Sun would vaporize and be blown by solar wind to the outer reaches of the solar system,a as we see happening with water vapor in the tails of comets…

  1611. Hi Amit,
    We are well….thanks for asking….likewise with you I hope.
    Some boys….thankfully do grow up.

    In space there is no left or right….up or down. These are references, so that we can understand each other, and be on the same page as it were when discussing Space.

    Everything is relative to everything else….. the rotation of planets…..even the rotation of the Milky Way when compared to other galaxies.
    It is an illusion that there are 2 directions of rotation……take 2 plates and rotate them in the same direction whilst keeping them on a flat surface……..now turn one over whilst still rotating it in the same direction…..now it appears that the 2 plates are rotating in opposite directions. This is true, but it is due to the 1 plate , having turned through 180 degrees in relation to the other plate. Then there is the difference in angle between the two planes of rotation…..now tilt one of the plates. The angle of approach or proximity and the direction of rotation, say of 1 galaxy in relation to another, is one of the determining factors of the conditions of interaction between them.
    Earth only rotates as it were, anti clockwise when viewed from above the North Pole……but when viewed from the South Pole, Earth’s rotation is clockwise.
    Same on the sub atomic level. As above so below.
    Be well, Leah

  1612. Amit: I’ve submitted two or three answers to your most recent questions but it doesn’t look as though they’ve been posted. Perhaps they will appear in the next couple of days. If not I’ll try to re-submit them.

  1613. If I may ask Paul a question. Or another one, cuz asking if I can ask a question is a question. Anywho, Why is a theory, which is pretty much 1) a plausible or scientifically acceptable general principle or body of principles offered to explain phenomena Which doesn’t mean its true or : a hypothesis assumed for the sake of argument or investigation b: an unproved assumption.
    Those are the definitions of theory. You criticize implicit faith as being irrational, and see faith as ignorance of reality: a strong belief in something with no evidence. When it is something that is believed especially with strong conviction, from proof a person, what is based on faith is not usually communicable except by common inculcation, which makes faith a divider and thus a phenomenon. Do you agree?
    Because I see Faith/Theory opposite sides of the same coin.
    And if their on the same coin, then they came from the same mint.
    Gordy open your mouth with something other than productive and so help me……
    Besides that, balls in your court.

  1614. Amit, Paul, Leah, Rico, Gordy, Becky, Andy, Orwin……. Any Comments, Questions, Smart remarks..??

  1615. PnG—so good to hear from you again…loved your post–well said…

    Maddness–you bet!!! just have to organize my thoughts, but will get back atcha….

    leah–as always–you come up with the best explanations–even a scientifically dwarfed mentality such as my own can understand that!!! thank you so much…

    more later…thanks so much

    please be well…

  1616. Dear PNG,

    That was very well said about Faith and Theory!
    Faith transcends everything.. You can prove or disprove any theory, but faith takes a lot to be budged! I would put it on the same level as “Love”, if i tell you to give me reasons why you “love” someone and prove it, you wont be able to do that. But you are sure of the “Love”…. Same with faith..

    BTW, where have you guys been?? Joe has disappeared again…

  1617. Dear Maddness,

    No Comments, No Smart Remarks and No Questions……….
    Just my wishes for your well-being….. 🙂

  1618. Dear Leah,

    Thanks for your explanation…
    I know about the perspective thing. Taking your example, if the same thing caused the plates to start rotating, they should be rotating in the same direction, from any perspective.
    My point was with reference to the gas Cloud Theory…I mentioned several things which contradict the views of that theory….

  1619. Hey Paul,

    Your answers did not get posted i guess….
    While you re-post them, please tell me your views about the formation of the moon as well…. The others are also welcome to answer this question,…

  1620. good morning all–

    FOR ME–faith is a personal fundamental belief that has been established over the course of my life due to events and circumstances that tell me “this is the way is it supposed to be”…for every person, it is different, but each has had their own “tested and approved” experiences that keeps nurturing our faith to make sure it stays alive…faith is a “work in progress”…it defies all laws of a physical realm, yet it is very, very real…

    ditto, amit…thanks…

    best wishes to all…please be well…

  1621. a simpler analogy might be like the light in the refrigerator always being on when you open the door…it’s always on because it was designed to work that way…

  1622. AMIT: I’m sure I gave Leah the answer to the formation of the moon a few weeks ago. But if you missed it basically what happened was the early earth was struck at an oblique angle by a body the size of Mars. The resulting cloud of debris went into orbit around the earth and other a period of months to a year coalesced into the moon.

  1623. AMIT: If you look at the analysis of the planets you will find that they can be divided into two parts – the inner rocky and outer gaseous types. The four inner ones all display very similar chemical compositions. The atmospheres of these four ARE radically different however. All of them show evidence of extremely violent impacts during their life times. Mercury looks as though the majority of its crust has been stripped away leaving a thin crust/mantle surrounding an out-of-proportion core. Venus has been tipped right over giving it a very slow and retrograde rotation. Earth was hit and the moon was the result. Mars has two totally different hemispheres – one upland the other lowland – which were probably caused by a big impact some 4 billion years ago.
    The outer planets are primarily hydrogen, helium, methane, ammonia, ethane etc. Jupiter may not have a rocky solid core while the other three almost certainly do.
    Uranus is tilted some 80 plus degrees so it orbits the sun with its poles pointing along the direction of motion instead of ‘up’ & ‘down’. This can only be a result of collision. One of its moons, Miranda, is an erratic jumble rocks, icebergs that also indicates collision.
    None of the planets orbits the sun ‘the wrong way’ although a number of the minor, outer satellites of Jupiter and Saturn do circle retrograde. This is an indication of late capture rather than formation where we see them.
    The angular momentum of the sun can be seen as a problem but some astrophysicists think that most of the angular momentum was lost during the sun’s T-Tauri stage when huge stellar winds carried it away.

  1624. AMIT: AMIT: Regarding the water ‘problem’ near earth.
    Well this isn’t too hard to explain. As the gas cloud collapses the temperature is very low. This is due to the blanketing effect of the thick dust AND because the mass at the centre of the cloud although heating up is cold – the sun hasn’t ‘switched on’. The elements in this cloud cover the entire Periodic Table from hydrogen through to uranium so hydrogen meeting up with oxygen would present a problem. Most of the hydrogen and helium get incorporated into the infant sun and the major gas giants. The heavy metals [and this sounds very odd but the term actually is applied to every element heavier than hydrogen and helium!!] clump together to form the rocky planets. As these bodies heat up the metals, nickel, iron, titanium, uranium and thorium etc sink to the centre. Lighter elements like aluminium, magnesium, silicon etc form the crust and combine to form minerals that turn up in volcanic/metamorphic rocks [olivine, feldspar, beryl, pyroxene etc.]
    Water remains liquid on earth because of atmospheric pressure and distance for the sun. When water vapour reaches the top of the atmosphere it is attacked by ultra violet light and splits into oxygen and hydrogen. The H escapes into space. It is NOT the temperature that is significant. The temperature of outer space in the vicinity of the earth is typically 3-4 degrees Kelvin. Therefore water would easily form and not be evaporated.
    I hope this explanation helps.
    As always I’m happy to answer your astronomical questions if I can.

  1625. PNG: The reason why I, and others here and elsewhere, deride religious faith is because it is just that – faith. It requires no questioning, no analysis. Indeed it demands that there IS no questioning. Put simply all faith says is, “god say it is so therefore accept it or be called heretic or unbeliever”. I realise that’s a gross over-simplification but go with it for the sake of argument.
    Science on the other hand begins with a theory then tests it again and again and again. People have faith in science and scientific procedure because of of this constant questioning and testing. In the case of science faith is possibly the wrong word as this belief is not a blind faith.
    I prefer to take my comfort in scientific exactitudes rather than untested gods and religion. Should people want their comforts in the unknowable then fine just don’t hector me and threaten me with death for being an unbeliever. I’m lucky enough to live in the west where I’m NOT threatened daily with death for heresy. Mind you had I held my atheistic views in Europe 4-5 hundred years ago I would have been murdered for them.
    I don’t think that science or upholders of scientific principles have ever threatened the religious with death for not accepting science’s advances.

  1626. 1) Put simply all faith says is, “god say it is so therefore accept it or be called heretic or unbeliever”.
    2) blind faith
    3) scientific exactitudes rather than untested gods and religion.
    4) threatened daily with death for heresy.
    5) religious with death for not accepting science’s advances.
    Paul, I have no idea WTF your talking about.
    Maybe 4-5 hundred years ago you would have been murdered for them.
    But don’t use an old excuse for a new argument.. Science and Scientific procedure, often bring more questions than answers. And to be honest, Science hasn’t offered any more to this world than religion.
    But hey, we can agree to disagree. But you nor I can’t claim to have the answers. Just opinions.

  1627. PNG. Wasn’t it you who was asking about the the difference/conflict between science and faith? If not, who cares? I certainly don’t care if you have any idea or not regarding my post.
    If you truly believe science hasn’t offered anything more to the world than religion then you’re an untutored fool. Where the hell do you think your health care comes from? Where the hell do you think the computer you’re using to pedal your crappy ideas comes from?
    Try renouncing religion in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan and then tell me faith is the way.
    BTW, my answers regarding astronomy/science are NOT opinions they are answers.

  1628. Ah. I See my work here ISN’T done. PNG. You are a complete fool. Your ridiculous postings are always welcome as a source of amusement.
    I’m surprised Gordy hasn’t chimed in with a comment as I’m sure he’ll want to put your comments on his faculty notice-board alongside those of Rico.

  1629. Ah Paul, a pity you chose the low road. I didn’t attack you. Kevin & Paul say you’re scientific minds, are to keen for us. Plz, allow me to use your jargon, see if you can keep up.
    By the end of 19 centuries in physics the explanation of the world phenomena was formed with assistance by ether and the field. It was supposed, that waves of light are propagated in ether. The smallest particles of substance consist of ether. The charged bodies and magnets create around of themselves the appropriate fields, which then act on other bodies. Became tempting the idea to present gravitational action as a field. Then all interactions in a nature will express the same as fields. It will be possible to create the united theory of a field and thus as it was supposed, all picture of the world will be constructed.
    It is necessary to pay earnest heed. Physicists-theorists aspired to create, construct a picture of the world, i.e. to explain for themselves the behavior of the objects of world around. However, for other people this explanation became understanding. The world around began to be perceived and interpreted by people in invented images. As these images were represented as real ones, the subsequent generations perceived them as objects of world around. So, we shall note that ether and the field are the concepts entered for an explanation of the world. These are dreamed up objects.
    Theory = Speculation.
    It always amazes me that if you say something emphatically enough, everyone around you will agree with you, no matter how wrong you are. What is so incredible about above examples is that the primary people in the examples are in fact the ones proved to be wrong by the examples they themselves have given!

    Let’s think about it: Do you think Albert Einstein was ever congratulated by his teachers in his early-education? No, Albert Einstein was not an honor student. His teachers said he was ‘retarded’ and would never amount to anything. His teachers were WRONG!

    Was it the educated scientists who first proved that the World was not flat? No, it was the educated scientists who wanted Christopher Columbus killed for promoting such heresy as to suggest the World might not be flat. These scientists were WRONG!

    Did Jesus Christ walk the Earth, condemning and rebuking the lost and the sinners? No, according to the Bible, it was the religious people of the day that condemned Jesus for living among the sinners. The only recorded rebuking that Jesus did was when he was rebuking the religious leaders, who were looking down their noses at others who were different than them, while they themselves were secretly harboring evil. Guess what? The religious leaders were WRONG!

    If you don’t think history repeats itself, you don’t have to look far to find that even today, the misfits, the down-trodden, and those adventurers who dare to question the mindset of the vast majority are looked down on and dismissed as worthless, unimportant idiots. And this is WRONG!

    You can come up with your own excuses but, I would call yours a “arty farty wiffle waffle” (actually I would use other words but that is a more polite version).

    The first bimetallic coin in British coinage. Has a inner disc that is made of cupro-nickel, while the outer ring is made of nickel-brass. (A collector’s version in gold and white gold was also made.) One side has the Queen’s profile. The side shown above has a design in the center depicting a chariot wheel. Around this are the gears, then a printed circuit, and a pattern which represents the internet. On the milled edge is part of Newton’s quote “Standing on the Shoulders of Giants.” This is appropriate, since Newton introduced milled coinage in England when he was director of the Mint.

    Apparently no one has yet informed the British Mint of this goof, for the 2002 coin still has the locked gears. A 2003 coin had a new design, with the gears replaced by a picture of the structure of DNA, and the edge now reads “Deoxyribonucleic Acid”. (Alas, poor Newton; you have been displaced by a molecule.

    Thats a statement of its ppl.

    How much science do you guys use? Or even understand?? Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. And today? Today is a gift. That’s why we call it the present. Thats a quote to you from Maddness.

    I mean C’mon does this make sense to you.
    (Animals, which move, have limbs and muscles. The earth does not have limbs and muscles; therefore it does not move.) You are the fool sir, not I.

  1630. * The other side not, The side shown above.
    I’m holding the coin, thinking & typing too fast.

  1631. C’mon be honest. How many of you had to read that twice. I read it 5x & i still dont get it.
    But the truth, is always easy to understand.

  1632. Paul,

    Thanks for your explanations…

    The thing you said about the Water problem explains the sustenance of the Water already present on Earth.. What about the “delivery” of water?
    I’ve read about Comet and Meteorite theories, but although comets contain considerable water, they could not have brought much water to Earth, because comets contain too much heavy hydrogen, relatively rare in Earth’s oceans. Comets also contain too much argon. If comets were the source of only 1% of Earth’s water, then, using evolutionists’ assumptions, our atmosphere would contain 400 times more argon than it does. The few types of meteorites that contain considerable water also have too much heavy hydrogen!
    So, where did the water come from then??

  1633. Paul,

    I have read your answer to the Moon Formation thing as well. But i still have my doubts..
    The Moon could not have spun off from Earth, because its orbital plane is too highly inclined. Nor could it have formed from the same material as Earth, because the relative abundances of its elements are too dissimilar from those of Earth. The Moon’s nearly circular orbit is also strong evidence that it was never torn from nor captured by Earth. If the Moon formed from particles orbiting Earth, other particles should be easily visible inside the Moon’s orbit; none are.

    Some claim that the Moon formed from debris splashed from Earth by a Mars-size impactor. If so, many small moons should have formed. The impactor’s glancing blow would either be too slight to form our large Moon, or so violent that Earth would end up spinning too fast. Also, small particles splashed from Earth would have completely melted, allowing any water inside them to escape into the vacuum of space. However, Apollo astronauts found on the Moon tiny glass beads that had erupted as molten material from inside the Moon but had dissolved water inside! The total amount of water that was once inside the moon probably equaled that in the Caribbean Sea.

    These explanations have many other problems. Understanding them caused one expert to joke, “The best explanation [for the Moon] was observational error—the Moon does not exist.” Similar difficulties exist for evolutionary explanations of the other (almost 200) known moons in the solar system.

    But the Moon does exist. If it was not pulled or splashed from Earth, was not built up from smaller particles near its present orbit, and was not captured from outside its present orbit, only one hypothesis remains: the Moon was created in its present orbit.

  1634. I have no idea what PNG is talking about. And he calls my explanations wiffle waffle! The only statements that make any sort of sense or are true concern Einstein who was considered slow at school and that Newton was at the Royal Mint.
    I can’t work out whether he thinks aether does or doesn’t exist. BTW, it doesn’t. It was disproved by experiments in the late 19th/early 20th centuries.
    I don’t remember reading that ‘educated scientists’ wanted Columbus killed. It was a Greek, Eratosthenes, who suggested the world was round and not flat many centuries before Columbus although Aristotle said ‘it was common knowledge and was known to the educated since antiquity’.
    You might be interested to learn, though I doubt it, that NO culture has actually believed the earth to be flat. It is always viewed as an upturned bowl. There are many descriptions of the earth curving away over the horizon. As the Babylonians knew the moon was a globe the chances are they too thought the earth was the same.

  1635. AMIT: Many people think that the comets couldn’t have delivered enough water to the early earth. However, what most of us fail to grasp is the immense size of these bodies AND how frequently they bombarded the earth. There was a sustained influx of comets from around 4.5 billion to 3.7[?] billion years ago. So for at the very least we’re looking at 500 million years probably much longer while these giant mountains of ices hit the planet. This coupled with water and water-bearing minerals, water vapour out-gassed from volcanoes can account for the oceans and seas.
    As for the high proportion of argon in comets I think this based on the fact that a super abundance of the gas was seen in the Comet Hale-Bopp. The reason for this is that the comet had spent most of its life in the outer reaches of the solar system or even in interstellar space. If there is a real discrepancy between cometary abundances and the argon content of earths water it can be explained by the volatility of the gas. The impacts of any argon heavy comets would produce enormous amounts of heat and the gas would ‘boil off’ and escape.

  1636. Paul,

    If the enormous heat caused by the impact caused Argon to boil off and escape, wouldn’t it do the same to Water?? Evaporation?
    And what about Heavy Hydrogen?

  1637. While it is undoubtedly true that some water would have evaporated following the comet’s impact there is just so much the amounts are small in comparison.

  1638. AMIT: If you go to the Smithsonian/NASA Astrophysics Data System site you will find an abstract that will, hopefully, explain the hydrogen-deuterium ‘problem’

  1639. AMIT. The moon didn’t ‘spin’ off the earth as debris flying out from a body spinning too fast. When it was hit the impactor was destroyed and part of the crust and upper mantle of the earth was torn off and went into orbit around the earth. Much of this debris fell back to the earth as it wouldn’t have achieved escape velocity. The rest formed a ring fully encircling the earth. There would indeed have been many small moons orbiting during this time. Any particles remaining from the formation would have been cleared by gravitational effects, solar wind etc over the 4 billion years. That’s why you won’t see any left in the moons orbit today. True any water may have been evaporated but remember that the temperature of any material even a few feet from a glowing bit of matter would have been at the temperature of cold, outer space. Without a connection between the hot and the water-bearing material no heat could have been transferred.
    Over a period of months the vast majority of this material coalesced to form the moon. The reason why there is a difference in chemical composition between the moon and earth is because the moon was formed out of the ‘lighter’ material – the crustal material. The earth kept virtually all the heavier stuff. If the moon and the earth had formed separately in the same orbit/distance from the sun they would have compositions that were more similar rather than being dissimilar.
    As to the glass beads having water found inside them they are nearly all the product of meteorite impact. But whether they are volcanic or meteorite in origin these impacts/eruptions are taking place in a vacuum. Liquid, heat etc. act differently in a vacuum. On many spce flights when astronauts vent waste water into the void it immediately turns to ice. There is a very famous incident where John Glenn vented his urine into space and a few minutes later calls Mission Control to tell them that, “there are a mass of small, silvery particles floating past the capsule….’ Due to the lack of perspective some thought he was seeing alien spacecraft in the distance.
    The capture hypothesis for the moon runs into all sorts of problems – its highly inclined orbit; captured rotation. I’m afraid that’s a non-starter

  1640. Well hi people. My, we have been busy bees haven’t we?
    I’ll definitely be adding the ludicrous posting from Madness and PNG to the notice-board. What on earth was PNG dribbling on about further up the page??
    AMIT. The site Paul mentions is a good one to find an in depth technical explanation to your questions. Worth checking out.

  1641. Plasma astrophysics and cosmology is a total load of unutterable garbage. Have any of you read the contributions by Oils and Anaconda on the other threads? The demented ravings of mad men. Please don’t believe what I say just check it out for yourselves.

  1642. amit and paul–love your dialog—please keep it up…

    gordy-welcome back!!!

    andy–maddness and i go way back—no leading or following there…:)

    best wishes to all…

  1643. “What on earth was PNG dribbling on about further up the page”??
    How sad, I was being sarcastic when I said I had to read that 5x. Unless you believe, you will not understand, plain & simple.
    To this I may add another form of temptation, manifold in its dangers … There exists in the soul … a cupidity which does not take delight in the carnal pleasure but in perceptions acquired through the flesh. It is a vain inquisitiveness dignified with the title of knowledge and science. As this is rooted in the appetite for knowing, and as among the senses the eyes play a leading role in acquiring knowledge, the divine word calls it ‘the lust of the eyes’… To satisfy this diseased craving … people study the operations of nature, which lie beyond our grasp when there is no advantage in knowing and the investigators simply desire knowledge for its own sake. This motive is again at work if, using a perverted science for the same end, people try to achieve things by magical arts.
    We have asked questions you have ignored or cast to the side. ‘Facts, facts, facts,’ cries the scientist if he wants to emphasize the necessity of a firm foundation for science. What is a fact? A fact is a thought that is true. But the scientist will surely not recognize something which depends on men’s varying states of mind to be the firm foundation of science. Science is but an image of the truth, not the Truth.
    A great truth is a truth whose opposite is also a great truth. Confused myself with that one, but I think it makes sense right. All your explanations have been wiffle waffle. I’m sorry to break it to you. A mind not wholly wishful to reach the truth, or to rest it in or obey it when found, is to that extent a mind impervious to truth an incapable of unbiased belief.
    And that is what the “CampfireCrew” is relly up against. Trying to shine light where there is none. All truth is a shadow except the last—yet every Truth is true in its kind. It is substance in its own place, though it be but a shadow in another place, (for it is but a shadow from an intenser substance;) and the shadow is a true shadow, as the substance is a true substance.

    I close with.

    A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.

    — Max Karl Ernst Ludwig Planck

    May you find your light.

  1644. Dear Gnostic joe,

    Good to hear from you…..hope you are all well.
    There is indeed much to be learnt from sayings.
    Life is a song, and everything is but a variation of the original theme.
    Keep shining the light, be well,
    Leah

  1645. Its a shame that those of a negative polarity take so long to realise that all become positive polarity eventually, in spite of their negative endeavours…….at the very least because, “No man is an Island”.

    Even if living in isolation atop a mountain….there are other lives that serve and provide food, shelter and warmth……so no one life can be without the service of others, or without being of service to other lives……even when they think they are being self serving.

  1646. gordy–i missed your second post from yesterday, re: the “demented ravings of madmen”…they seem to follow you around, buddy 🙂 …what’s up with that?

  1647. I see PnG & M, have been very busy. Debauch & I have been on other forums, threads looking for others with similar thinking minds. change can only come about, and will be started by those peoples who first revealed the light (the divine wisdom or intelligence).
    The Wikurswungwa Clan, started us on the path to see, which of the children are left who have not heard the teachings. “Because my people hath forgotten me, they have burned incense to vanity, and they have caused them to stumble in their ways from the ancient paths, to walk in paths, in a way not cast up;”
    “To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.” I agree, this can be used as a copout, but you can change it to be pro-science. “To one who knows Science, all explanations are necessary. To one without knowledge of science, no explanation is possible, to understand.”
    But the Truth cannot be distroted as easily. The Truth cannot appear, to work for one side or the other, when one wnats it to. No, the truth lies in statements such as… “All that is gold does not glitter; not all those that wander are lost.”
    Now was that a scientist? A holy man? who said that? No. But the Truth, when heard, cannot be distroted. The quote was from J.R.R. Tolkien.
    Anyway, I hope that between here & 2012. That if nothing else, some middle road is met here, so a common ground, is established.

    May you find your light
    Gnostic joe

  1648. If i may be so bold as to add. That no two people, are inspired quite the same way, and what inspires is as unique as the sound of your laughter. No two people are going to find the righ or wrong path quite the same way. One person’s inspiration may come from reading a book, poem or quote. Another may be inspired by music, the sound of children’s laughter or silence that encourages reflective thinking. Those same things can push a person, down a dark path. To want to hurt, decieve, to take for the sake of taking.
    It’s never too late to be what you might have been. And its never to late to change what you now are. innovative ideas have no chance of taking growing wings, Without inspiration.
    In fact, they will fail to exist. Most are lead to believe that as the pressures of mundane existence consume most of our time, how can you have time to help anyone but your self? They could not possibly be unhappy with the sad, tragic, purposeless, pointless fact of their own existence.
    No, if that were true. This planet would be under some Eutopia governing law. Ok, no need for me to get into this fight. Maddness, watch your mouth please. Persona non Grata, G’luck to you too. C.F.C. see ya soon!!

    May you find your light
    Debauch

  1649. Becky: If you check out a couple of the other threads on UT, I’ll give you the link later as I’ve forgotten which they are, you’ll find Oils and Anaconda ranting on about the Plasma Universe. Demented ravings don’t follow me rather I hunt them down. And I’m having a field-day here with you-know-who.

  1650. Who is this Debauch character? Sashays in here with quasi-philosophy and a nobler-than-thou attitude and has his acolytes bowing, scraping and fawning. Some sort of saviour no doubt?

  1651. Andy, you act like you could read the pages…
    LoL, even if we read the words to you….
    You’d be like i’m knackered with this stuff.
    Consider me your agony Uncle, it’s not like you’d take my advise though?
    But, get stupid with me Andy Batty Boy. & i’ll not be so nice.

  1652. You would hope/wish this Debauch character,
    was some sort of saviour. Nothing will be that easy. I mean, I sit in my bedsit hoping we can all see eye to eye. But the berks of the world, are just outside the door.
    Lucky for me. I do have Debauch. And am not bimble, as you & your friends are.

  1653. good morning, all!!!

    debauch and gnostic joe—welcome back!!! if even for just one post, it is so good to hear from you…thanks, as always, for the thoughts and inspiration…please be well…

    leah, maddness, PnG–as always…

    gordy–thanks—please share those links when you get the chance… 🙂

    andy–how sad for you!!! 🙁 the pages aren’t blank at all..sit in the light…ya know, there are many people on this link and others who have a “history” together…i don’t know about you, but i find it very comforting to be in the company of those willing to share and inspire, inspite of the reprocussions for their thoughts…the one common ground we all share and hope for it that of a greater understanding FOR ALL THINGS…some here, already have it…others are hoping to get it…perhaps it IS “quasi-philosophy” to you..that’s okay… i still maintain that one does not have to “AGREE” in order
    to “UNDERSTAND”…in ALL cases, you do not “shoot the messenger”…

    thanks for letting me share…a special thanks to all for inspiring….

    best wishes and please be well…

  1654. Becky. How sad for you to sit the ‘light’ of the people you consider to be enlightened. They shy away from the light that scientific thought brings and would rather cower in the shadows cast by myth, legends and the lies spread by the conspiracy theorists, alien interventionists.

  1655. Well heaven or whatever help you PNG if you think a nimb-null like Debauch could be a saviour.

  1656. I have been meaning to make a few comments recently as there don’t seem to be enough women posting so I’ll post shortly.

  1657. Andy buddy, Go smoke another one, after that we can discuss, what my moniker is for. And if I have not done my best, to exemplify that.
    You use words to try to ….place yourself…on a pedestal. I have been trying to be understanding, I have asked you to explain analytic theory, and that, you have ignored.
    When someone is on their high horse, they are being inflexible, arrogant and will not make any compromises, that is how you are approaching this.
    I think my words & questions scare you.
    Unlike you, my life is more defined, then whether the results of the petri dish. Are in my favor or not. And, Debauch could be a saviour, if you could be a scientist.
    But none of those two will happen. And how do I know your scared, well because none of us metioned Myths, Legends or the lies spread by the Conspiracy Theorists, Alien Interventionists or crop circles.
    IT WAS GOD, thats what we talked about. GOD.

  1658. Hey Guys…..

    I agree with Becky here..
    Peaceful co-existence is possible, even without believing firmly in the same thing..

    Good to hear from Joe and Debauch….

    This forum should be taken as an opportunity to have oppsoing views on the same page and consider them without bias.. Because i still believe that the answers would only spring from a collaboration….

    On one hand we have Paul, who has answers to all kinds of questions regarding Astronomy. And on the other we have people like PNG, Joe, Maddness and Debauch who present beautiful spiritual messages with equal ease. In between there are people lke Leah, Becky and myself, who give a patient ear to both the views… Definitely an interesting group!! But we can surely do away with the frequent bickering (Look whos talking 🙂 )

  1659. Ah yes god. Yet another myth to add to alien intervention and the rest of the crap.
    Any words I use are not designed to put me on a pedestal far from it. You are trying to tar me with the same brush that Rico and the rest of his insane followers had tarred themselves with – i.e. the theories we have are the ones that are true and woe unto they who refuse to follow us. That brush.
    Your reference to a high horse etc fits them perfectly.
    And as for your words and ideas frightneing me well there’s nothing there except empty rhetoric and I use the word rhetoric in its modern sense not the classicla sense.
    And finally I ‘m not a scientist. So ruminate on that, BUDDY.

  1660. Having shadowed this site for a few months now I can say that I’m
    surprised that the science people haven’t just stopped and gone back to
    their studies. The folk who are in the ‘anti-science’ group are clearly
    unreachable. Every answer or explanation is shouted down or rubbished.
    That wouldn’t be too bad if something concrete was offered up in reply but
    what do we get? A series of howling responses from people who quite
    clearly despise science and reject its findings and approaches simply
    because it doesn’t fit their extremely cock-eyed view of the world. If it
    doesn’t come from the sky/the ancients/aliens then it is bogusor not fair.
    Just like my young children when they can’t get their way.
    Posters such as Madness are contributing just to wind up the likes of
    Paul, Owain and Kevin; Amit doesn’t appear to fully understand replies as
    he constantly asks the same question over and over again [the formation of
    the moon for instance] and for some unexplained reason keeps on spouting
    probability theory and banging on about the Fibonaci Series as if they
    hold the key to the mysteries of the universe or will undermine current
    theories on biology and physics;

    Rico has this bee in his bonnet about aliens constructing or helping to
    construct everything from the pyramids to Baalbek and like Amit thinks,
    actually wants, aliens to have tampered with human dna;
    Leah like Amit keeps on asking the same questions and has a fixation with
    ‘galactic alignments’ and “why haven’t humans sent probes out into the
    galaxy or if they have why haven’t we seen the results”;
    Becky isn’t a real person but rather, I think, a computer that randomly
    generates a series words and phrases that have no overall meaning but
    which some love to think of as insights of deep cosmic significance[I
    think someone else has mentioned this previously.
    Madness is a nasty little person who contributes nothing but childish insults.
    Owain has disappeared after mixing insults with answers; ditto Kevin.
    So the science people have hardly covered themselves in glory though they do provide answers rather than blind ignorance and barking theories as do the anti-science group. Well hardly theories more like badly-thought out speculation. The craving the anti-science people want for ‘something else’ is a malaise that science should confront head on and address. Basically there is nothing else in the area these people are probing. There are no aliens tampering with our DNA; aliens didn’t build the pyramids; we haven’t sent probes out into the galaxy because it’s too far away and the craft too slow to get there in any meaningful time and so on and so on.
    These anti-science folk are questing for some spiritual satisfaction and wrongly blame science because it doesn’t provide it. It is not the job of science to fill this void. If the current religion can’t do it for you then tough. But don’t use your lack of ability to grasp or accept science as an excuse to knock it.

  1661. Any one perspective that demands unquestioning belief is tantamount to a man made religion.

    Science seeks to understand…… as do philosphy and religion etc, but from different perspectives, using different contexts.

    Margaret……do not presume to know anything at all about me……I am suprised you wasted months of your time profiling so many on this thread…….to what end…..to judge ? Why not use the energy to study all perspectives and discover how they all relate to eachother…..preferably not by just taking others word for everything.

  1662. Please don’t bother to challenge me….as you are free to perceive in your own unique way…..as we all are. I have not stated any beliefs on my part during the entire thread…..as I do not seek to convince anyone of anything. Each must do their own diligence and find answers for themselves, and not adopt someone else’s view that conveniently fits in with their preferences.

  1663. Becky: If you go to this link on UT you’ll find an on-going post that includes some very high-powered astronomer etc debating all sorts of stuff. Unfortunately some who don’t really understand the topic that’s under discussion have dug themselves into a hole. It’s not the same sort of debate that’s occurring here though as this seems to have become bogged down in a science versus religion argument which is o.k. I suppose.

    http://www.universetoday.com/2009/02/25/jupiter-saturn-plowed-through-asteroids-study-says/

  1664. Once again Maddness has his grammar screwed up.
    It should read, “You’re just as screwed up as I am”. NOT, “Your as screwed up as I am”. ‘Your’ is possessive, you’re, which is a contraction of ‘you are’ is conditional.
    Nit-wit.

  1665. good morning–
    as always, thanks to amit, PnG, maddness…even andy…

    margaret–WELCOME!! thanks for sharing your perceptions of us all…think what you will of me–that’s fine—but the rest of this group is NOT unreachable…nor are they an “anti-scientific folk”…irregardless of what their views are, each has a very keen understanding of science and how it works…it is an honor to sit amongst them…every one of them pays a tribute to science, in their own way..sorry you overlooked that while “sizing us up”…science is not a “cut and dry” field…nor will it ever be…my passions just lie in different areas…perhaps that is what makes my thinking “null and void”…

    but thanks for sharing, just the same…please don’t be a stranger…

    best wishes

  1666. And Gnostic Joe returns to offers us the ‘wisdom’ of Tolkein and some indigenous clan folklore. Well whoopee do. That BS has even less to do with astronomy or the 2012 debate than virtually anything that has gone before! I came here to learn some stuff about astronomy, astrophysics and read about the 2012 non-event. What do I get? A few answers from Paul and Gordy and the disconnected ramblings from people who think they see the mysteries of the cosmos in pre-industrial society. What next? ‘Follow the 8-fold way my son’?

  1667. No becky the anti-science faction do not try to understand science and neither do they pay tribute to it. Rather than understand what science has achieved, or where it can’t provide an answer, they are quick to condemn and reach for the absurd and frankly ridiculous explanations.
    When pressed to supply rational explanations for THEIR side of the argument they come up with spurious web-sites and discredited investigators. Rather than admit that knowledge is lacking they retreat as irrationalist through history have into name calling and attacks on logic.

  1668. AMIT Says: “And on the other we have people like PNG, Joe, Maddness and Debauch who present beautiful spiritual messages with equal ease.”
    I have yet to read anything posted by Maddenss that could be described as ‘beautiful’ or ‘spiritual’. Certainly G. Joe and PNG might like to think that their posts are such but it’s all very ‘Lower 6th form’ in style.
    When challenged Paul, Gordy and even I have where possible supplied answers to science queries which I felt was the object of the site.

  1669. Ha Owain – hwyl. Depressing this weekend, yes? Yr Ffrainc!
    Wondered where you’d got to. I see that the much vaunted Debauch has finally put in an appearance. No doubt his buddies will breathe a sigh of relief now their leader has come down through a gap in the clouds. Perhaps he’s been flying around the universe with that other joker from a few months back – Espumpin was it?

  1670. Well said Margaret. Pity you didn’t show up a while ago rather than lurking. It does take some energy to keep battling the ‘forces of darkness’ but if you don’t challenge these people they carry on thinking their delusions are the real deal. I know they’re a very, very tiny minority but their foolishness is pernicious. I’d love to see some of them on prime time television trying to expound these theories in front of a panel of ‘time served’ academics. But even then when their walls of stupidity are rubble around them they will STILL carry on spouting arrant nonsense and crying the rest of the world is blind to the truth.

  1671. Yes very depressing. So is the continuing garbage I’m reading here. It wasn’t really worth the wait for Debauch and Gnostic Joe was it?

  1672. I have studied the respondents here, studied the perspectives and discovered how they relate to each other. As a psychologist/psychiatrist profiling people here has not been a waste of time at all. People give so much away about themselves on sites such as this.
    I will definitely challenge your assertion that religion seeks to understand. Perhaps in its early days a religion like Christianity did but it has become moribund and stayed pretty much the same for 1500 years. Islam certainly does not welcome attempts to move and understand itself ditto Judaism.

  1673. I’m afraid you take yourself far too seriously. I have no intention whatsoever of challenging you personally. I merely challenge your assertion that religion seeks to understand the world/universe in any meaningful way. I know the Vatican has its own observatory and engages with science but it doesn’t challenge its own writings, history and philosophy.

  1674. LOLOLOLOLOLOMGLOLOLOMAOLOLOMGMAOLOL
    OK,OK, that was funny. Margaret…., ..stop…. plz….. I can’t catch my breath.
    Gimme a mintue. Get my thoghts in order.
    WAAAhhhh,Ha Ha Ha He He He….LOLOLOL
    WTF…snicker…. did you oo.. ooo ..mean by.HA Ha Ha.
    Wait… i’ll …be.. bachahahahaha.

  1675. Marge, listen to me plz. The Vatican Observatory is one of the oldest astronomical institutes in the world. For the first foreshadowing of the Observatory can be traced to the constitution by Pope Gregory XIII of a committee to study the scientific data and implications involved in the reform of the calendar which occurred in 1582.
    Tell me something I don’t know.
    What you don’t know, is why would a religious sect, be intrested in science. When science doesn’t have an Observatory, looking for God.Knowledge is essential to conquest; only according to our ignorance are we helpless. Thought creates character. Character can dominate conditions. Will creates circumstances and environment.
    So tell me something, I don’t know.

  1676. Paul says – “It does take some energy to keep battling the ‘forces of darkness’ “…

    WOW, I am impressed!!!!

    We are the forces of darkness??? And what are you – Light Bringers?? Ho Ho Ho!!!! Get real dude!!!

  1677. And as for Margaret! C’mon friends, dont waste your time commenting on her.. We have had enough of such people mounted on their high horses, throwing their “judgements” left right and center at others….
    Dont bother…
    Let her bask in the glory of her supposed Wisdom, it will fade away in a while, just like her….

  1678. Are the problems of the world, both natural and human…..a delusion ? I suppose they are, for those who don’t bother to look…..ostriches don’t bury their heads in the sand…….people do. People have been encouraged to subscribe to….what you don’t know, can’t hurt you.

    Margaret, you obviously don’t believe in freedom of thought, opinion or belief…….. you want to reserve this freedom exclusively for those who have been “trained” to think as their trainers……the so called qualified brigade. Just what is it that you think you
    are qualified to do to others, or convince others of ? Do you the view the masses as a pack of dogs that you want to train ?

    You are disturbed by all that do not conform to your opinions and belief. Big mistake to try and force people to fit into a neat filing system. You need to realise, each person is unique.

    You wrote something about…..there are no aliens etc etc…….would you put your money where your typing fingers are ? Lets say, a guarantee, backed with a 7 figure amount of money, escrowed…..repayable if no aliens turn up in say,within 25 years.

    No aliens…..is just your opinion…….you are in no better a position to predict the future than anyone else. You are free to write what you please here, as is everyone else…..you are an equal …..so leave the posturing aside.

  1679. Amit: See my comments above.
    PNG: The comment I made abaout the Vatican observatory wasn’t intended to tell people something they don’t already know. I was merely trying to forestall a storm of protest from the religious faction about how religion in general and catholics like to say they are questing for knowledge.

  1680. Paul: I doubt very much if any of the ‘forces of darkness’ could hold an audience on prime time t.v. Their inability to string coherent thoughts or sentences together would limit the programme to a few minutes. The academics wouldn’t really have to do much other than give them a gentle push and they would fall over the logic cliff.
    But like the poor the demented are always with us.
    See how quickly Amit turned on you when you criticised him and barely a mention of the time you’ve taken to answer his questions on astronomy?

  1681. Hi Margaret: Water off a duck’s back. The role of education is to enlighten and when faced with those who are unable to comprehend another way has to be found. It’s not usually their fault but after a while stubbornness has to be viewed in a different light. It IS difficult to accept or understand some science but that isn’t a reason for it to be rejected. Unfortunately some here don’t wish to accept science. So be it.
    I thought PNG was rather forward in addressing you as Marge was a bit forward.

  1682. No idea what his angle is with his post at 3:52 2/3 but then trying to figure what his angle is at any time is difficult. But like Debauch and Gnostic Joe he is welcomed like some returning prophet. Still trying to suss that but untying the convoluted and knotted way their brains work [WORK??} isn’t my province. Be interested in what you make of them. An interesting sideline perhaps?

  1683. Margaret,

    You are more ptahetic than i thought earlier…
    The Forces of Darkness post was by “Paul.” I am sure its not Paul Eaton Jones…. You need to be more astute in your observations about people here before making your loud mouthed comments!
    And regarding acknowledging Paul’s efforts, you only need to read my posts addressed to him, to see i have thanked him often enough. But you are only pretending to have followed the thread!
    And as for holding prime time audience… I dont harbor any such aspirations.
    And before commenting on my questions about Moon and DNA and Fibonacci, please tell me what the hell do YOU know about them?? What can you bring to the table to be discussed? Nobody cares for your “profiling” that you are doing here.. You are only fooling yourself in believing that you are not wasting your time here. Go and profile yourself first… And i dont need to be a psychologist/psychiatrist to judge what kind of person you are….

  1684. Paul(Dot)
    Calling someone “Force of Darkness” is not Forward, but calling someone by a casual name is forward????
    WOW, You keep impressing me.. I salute your logic!

  1685. Using the epithet Forces Of Darkness is not forward in the same way as using a diminutive of my name which is presumptious in the extreme.
    As a pyschologist I am only to aware of my failings or at least I have colleagues who are trained and can point them out in a professional way.
    I came to this site because a friend pointed out that there were a large amount of delusional people gathered in one place and would make a suitable case study. How right he was.

  1686. I reckon Maddness must have split his sides with his post yesterday at 3.42.

  1687. Margaret,
    You have joined other sorry folk here who must put others down in an effort to raise themselves.
    Qwain/Andy, your ass is showing.

  1688. It’s OWAIN you idiot. Pronounced Oh-wine. It’s a Welsh name the English equivalent is Owen. Jeez, can’t these people even READ the words on the screen?

  1689. good morning–all!!!

    owain–thanks for your link, as well…will check it our as well…

    HOW EXCITING FOR US ALL…margaret–i have NEVER been part of a “case study” before…how exciting!!! just kinda curious, though…how do you plan on studying someone you have profiled as being “not real”??? make something up??? GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ONE!!! don’t waste your time…from paul to amit to maddness and everyone in between—we ALL KNOW OUR OWN minds..and hearts…and souls…

    …it would be fun though, to see your chart AND SEE HOW YOU HAVE CREATED ME…a case study—it just doesn’t get any better that that, does it????? 🙂

    GEEEEZZZZZ!!!!!!

    to all, please be well…enjoy your day!!

  1690. …or perhaps since i’m nobody to begin with–i won’t even be considered..yeah!!! that’s it…no worries here…

  1691. BWAHHHaHaHaHa!!!!!….I cant…..Youse are too much….LOLOLOLmAO, My face hurts….Can’t… stop…. laughinHAHAHAHEHEHE…..Ow, my side…
    Ok,OK, Wheew. ehem, Marge, can I call you Marge? Anywho, you said “I was merely trying to forestall a storm of protest from the religious faction about how religion in general and catholics”
    Whoa, You singled out the catholics, from the rest of Religion. Just an observation.
    Now i’m wondering, you said also”As a pyschologist I am only to aware of my failings or at least I have colleagues who are trained and can point them out in a professional way.”
    Well, Png,Debauch, Gnostic joe and I are all the same person. Ask ’em. They can read this post. They’ll agree.
    SOOOOOO, whats your professional case study say about that. Fuck, whats your science say about that? Don’t say we’Re FuCkiNg Crazy Either. HAHAHAhehehe… The MadNess iN It Is. All We hAve 2 Do iS at leaSt try 2 get YoU 2 UnDerStaNd. GOD loves you.
    I don’t Care If You BeLieVE Me or not.
    So Smart, yet you’s got no answer.
    Oh I know, it’s MADDNESS!!!!!!
    LOLOLOLOLOLOLLOOOLOLOLOLOMAO..

  1692. Nice M, Listen I don’t have time to explain that..Debauch…the C.F.C. remembers. I know we sound crazy. But the truth of things, aren’t as easliy revealed. I’m not going for a holier than thou or cloak & dagger.
    Anyway marge..you really wouldn’t want to see Maddness on the telly. or in an alley. or in your nightmares. or…anyway you get it.
    M’s in trouble now…be back soon.

  1693. Margaret,
    indulge me please, as I tell you a story. Once I believed that Gnosticism was a well-defined phenomenon belonging to the religious history of Late Antiquity. Of course, I was ready to accept the idea of different prolongations of ancient Gnosis, and even that of spontaneous generation of views of the world in which, at different times, the distinctive features of Gnosticism occur again.
    I was soon to learn however, that I was a naïf indeed. Not only Gnosis was gnostic, but the Catholic authors were gnostic, the Neoplatonic too, Reformation was gnostic, Communism was gnostic, Nazism was gnostic, liberalism, existentialism and psychoanalysis were gnostic too, modern biology was gnostic, Blake, Yeats, Kafka were gnostic…. I learned further that science is gnostic and superstition is gnostic…Hegel is gnostic and Marx is gnostic; all things and their opposite are equally gnostic
    I as you, am only seeking the Truth. But, may I ask you. If all your knowledge was proven to be false. Do you how a person learns again. If you didn’t have a physical form, would it mean you could never “feel” or “make” love, again?
    Do you think these questions foolish? Can you answer for G.P.
    May you find your light
    Gnostic joe

  1694. As Maddness has just pointed out, there are a few that feel, some sort of reference should be given or material for you to research. I can only give some of which I have read or looked up myself. But you must understand the words. At least one circumstance emerges from this statement that is widely overlooked in America.( remember just my opinion) In Europe “Gnosis” and “Gnosticism” are almost always used interchangeably. The suggestion that term “gnosis” ought to be used to describe a state of consciousness, while “Gnosticism” should denote the Gnostic system, has never caught on.I have no idea why. The use of such classical Gnosticism of Valentinus, Basilides, et al., persists in European literature, including the writings of such scholars as Gilles Quispel, Kurt Rudolph, and Giovanni Filoramo (to mention some of the most recent ones). It is true that the late Robert McLachlan put forth a proposal to use these terms otherwise, but current usage in Europe has not followed it.
    I dont feel I should have to go on, i would take up to much space.
    I would request answers, just as politely.
    Oh, although Maddness was going for shock value. He spoke the Truth. We await your reply.
    May you find your light
    Gnostic joe

  1695. Owain. Says:
    March 3rd, 2009 at 12:23 pm
    What a niggardly little oaf Png is.

    Gordy. Says:
    March 3rd, 2009 at 12:53 pm
    PNG: Perhaps you should keep your pet dinosaur away from the keyboard

    SPEAK ENGLISH!!!!!!!!

  1696. Why on earth are you bringing all that guff about gnosticism to to a debate about astronomy???

  1697. Because he has nothing to say about the subject. He’s seen an opportunity to air his own philosophy and will now presumably bore us all to death with it whether we’re interested or not. Woe betide us if we tell him to go away. But at least his scribblings will appear on my faculty notice board. Which computer voice should I ascribe him do you think???
    So needle-nardle-noo.

  1698. Oh, I do know of astronomy, but I know it is the oldest of the physical sciences. Whose origin you think you know about In many early civilizations the regularity of celestial motions was recognized, and attempts were made to keep records and predict future events. But thats hog-wash right. The first practical function of astronomy was to provide a basis for the calander, the units of month and year being determined by astronomical observations. Observations, which you are trying to make sense of, via the mayan calander. Astronomy also serves in navigation and timekeeping, can you keep up with me?
    The Babylonians,Mayans, Assyrians, and Egyptians were also active in astronomy. And you don’t wish to understand” Why on earth are you bringing all that guff about gnosticism to to a debate about astronomy???” We’ll the earliest astronomers were priests, and no attempt was made to separate astronomy from astrology.
    Neither do I, it is you who have half the story of the Truth. Do you understand? I know about your subject, you know nothing of mine.

    May you find your light
    Gnostic joe

  1699. Next ,
    Gaydy – Wandy – and – sweet Kevin

    shall be telling us that their dad is bigger than our dad.

    Marge, can I call you Marge?
    Margy, can you help those four little boys?

    They need a mom.

  1700. Gordy/Andy,

    When Margaret can rant about Psychology on an astronomy forum, why cant Joe talk about Gnosticism and why cant PNG and Maddness express their views on Religion/God?? And whats wrong with Becky’s philosophic views. And i dont even need to point out under what category most of your posts fall!
    And on second thoughts.. This isn’t even an Astronomy Forum, as you call it..
    Its about 2012, and that is a very very broad topic indeed. Discussion about that will automatically include Science and God … Moreover, everyone is free to express their views, and its needless to say that the discussion on this forum has taken a free form, where everybody is talking about everything… So why bother pointing out the non-esistent categorisation to someone??

  1701. Gordy/Andy/Owain,

    Why do you guys always have to resort to personal affronts??
    When we can discuss your subject in a polite manner, why cant you do the same when it comes to God/Spirituality??
    When i am discussing Astronomy with Paul, do you ever see me using derogatory remarks or having a condescending attitude?
    You dont have to group up and jump on any of us who tries to present views differing from yours’ !!
    Gordy, you may want to put some of your own posts on your notice board.. And i’ll tell you what kind of voice to use. Ever heard a Team Manager screaming from the sidelines during a Football Match? Yes, that one…. And then tell us what your colleagues have to say about your attitude here……

  1702. To @@@: O-wine not O-WHINE which is what I’m sure you actually meant. While I certainly shout, rant and laugh at some of the postings here I don’t think I whine. That sound comes from the players on the other side.
    To Amit: All I see when you’re discussing astronomy with Paul is a series of questions that constantly go over the same ground. How many times does he have to explain the current theory of the moon’s formation? Virtually every response you make to it is that you’re not convinced. O.k. You’re not convinced, so why keep asking? If you don’t believe or don’t like the answer go read a book on the subject. I may have missed it but what is YOUR theory on the origin of the moon? Maybe you are seeking knowledge or maybe you’re just a troll.

  1703. Sorry @@@ we’ve already been through the, ” let’s see if they do the my dad is bigger than your dad” thing months ago. Get with the programme.

    Also Amit. People aren’t grouping up to jump on any of you in any organised way. It’s not because your views and those of others are different it’s because they’re rubbish and deluded. Aliens tampering with human DNA! You’ve got to laugh haven’t you? Nothing personal, well not much.

  1704. Owain,

    Why should i have a theory??? I am not a scientist!!!
    And as for my questions, if you bother to read carefully, they are not the same questions at all…
    I just point out the things which i doubt, and Paul tries to clarify. Nowhere have i said that “No i am not convinced!”
    Its not unreasonable to voice your doubts, is it?? And the questiosn that i asked in response to Paul’s theory are valid… Even Paul would agree with that.
    Why should i agree to Paul’s answers in a single go? Why shouldn’t i have any doubts?? Paul doesn’t have any problems with that. You guys are just using this point as matter of debate…..

  1705. Owain,

    If you think i am a troll then there is some serious problem with your brain..
    Even a kid can make out whats a troll and whats a real person on the net…
    Paul said questions regarding Astronomy are most welcome and he is happy to answer those..I am asking questions and he is answering. Where the hell do you come in between? Your concerns dont hold ground…
    Let Paul say that i am asking stupid questions or even repeating the same questions, if thats the case…
    A non entity called Margaret makes a stupid observation and you are so quick to latch on to that. Without knowing the actual facts….. That makes you look even more stupid than you are..

  1706. If one checks out the results of all research carried out re the effects of JUST Electro magnetism on Planet Earth, and on life forms…..enough dots can be connected to form the skeleton of a true picture. Check out the status quo of Earth’s magnetosphere…..the increased number of high energy particles bombarding Earth……the proven effects on behaviour patterns, men being effected more so than women, bringing out atavistic traits in many, as violence, whilst others become more creative. Also changes in DNA.

    Add to this and check out, the effects of Solar winds……radiation etc. Check out the effects for that matter of all frequencies, especially because of our Solar System’s location in the Milky Way…….highly energetic area……the Galactic plane area.

    Its an era of accelerated evolution, and natural selection.

    One of the most interesting areas of research is Noise Cancellation technology……which expanded……is Frequency Cancellation technology.

  1707. It is enlightening to observe and contemplate, especially if you keep an open mind.
    During a period when the magnetic field is weak, what is most vulnerable is our technology. What a mess.

  1708. Alright Amit let’s not call what you have theories let’s call them ideas then. Ideas are good, very good. But for them to become real they have to be subjected to demonstrable, repeatable tests. Your idea that aliens tampered with human DNA are just that, an idea. It’s not too far out but it IS, as yet, unprovable. Therefore it lies in the domain of speculation. And until aliens are even prove to exist it is wild speculation. As an obviously intelligent person why do you cling to ideas that are beyond proving with current technology? I admit the question is good and also admit that NO question is stupid. But in the face of an idea being unprovable it is then legitimate to to question why the questioner continues.
    Please carry on asking and where any legit. question is posed it WILL be answered.

  1709. HEY!! JAT!! always so good to hear from you—hope you and yours are well…

    owain…i understand what you are saying, but it is a vicious circle…the questions will never stop coming…

    ya know—everyone faults me for not subscribing to any one side of an issue, or debate, theory or belief…but that’s the nice thing about “floating”…i know that, in time, all my questions will be answered…sorta on a “need to know” basis…the past few years have been an amazing journey for me…as i suspect the next few will also be…

    so thanks to all for letting me “hang around”…

    gordy and owain-just started on the links you sent…it will take a while, since i am starting from the very beginning…no comments …just yet…

    have a grest day—everyone, please be well…

  1710. If anyone is interested in the night sky they might like to go outside tonight and if the skies are clear turn your binoculars on Venus – the very bright point of light in the west and you’ll be able to see an actual crescent. This isn’t seen too often but because of angles, proximity and illumination we can now. Also have a good look at the half moon. Look along the terminator, the line down the middle basically, and check out the wonderful line of craters towards the bottom. Quite breathtaking.

  1711. Breathtaking?, it will be Heart-Stopping!!! Everyone, should go outside tonight and if the skies are clear turn your binoculars on Venus. I love how Venus is covered by thick, rapidly spinning clouds,get yoy dizzy staring at it. The surface traps heat, creating a scorched greenhouse-like world with temperatures hot enough to melt lead, makes you wonder how it got like that. There is pressure so intense that standing on Venus would feel like the pressure felt 900 meters deep in Earth’s oceans. You wouldn’t believe me how if I told you how I knew that. Did you know the clouds reflect sunlight in addition to trapping heat? Know why, cuz Venus reflects sunlight, it is usually the brightest planet in the night sky. so you can’t miss it tonight.
    You should wonder, Why are Venus & Mars, twin planets. But, both of them are dead! Yet Earth is alive. Yep, you’s sure are lucky to be just right. zLOLOLOLOLo, um, Just wanted to show, joe anit the only one who knows the stars.
    We can talk about what ever you’s want. But do you know why Tigger stuck his head in the toilet? He was looking for Pooh!!

    Get your self a flashlight
    Maddness

  1712. Stay away from the keys, if your gonna drink please.BWaaHHHaaa, you stink! hahahaha, I’m sorry, i don’t normally act this way…but M, brought the bottle….okay bye,

    Find a lighter
    PnG

  1713. Right Owain.. I think thats a good middle ground which we can tread peacefully…..
    As long as i am open to all types of ideas and not subscribe to any single type, the questions will keep coming….

  1714. Maddness,

    Who says Venus and Mars are dead?? The great John Carter lives on Mars with his beautiful princess Dejah Thoris and their offsprings in the great city of Helium…
    Whereas , Carson Napier is there on Venus, fighting the evil Thorans, not alone ofcourse, Duare is there to give him company…..

  1715. JAT,

    Good to hear from you…
    Where have you been??
    Hope all is well…..

    Rico has been missing for long too……

  1716. PNG. You really should keep Maddness away from the computer. Try tying a glitter-ball from the top of his cradle or cage or wherever you keep him. That ought to distract him for 23 out of 24 hours.

  1717. Oh yes. Tell him that Venus and Mars AREN’T twin planets at all. So he lied when he alluded to knowing about the stars. Btw bonehead they’re not stars either.

  1718. Owain. Be wary of taking the middle ground. You’ll be seen and accused of accepting some of the muddle-headed thinking. Stick to telling the facts. If you’re asked top comment on the ridiculous don’t. I know you’re a professional but once you start engaging with the mad men it’s hard to get away as I found some time ago.

  1719. The scene is a lead-lined room somewhere and it contains our friends from the demented tendency. A discussion is in progress. “Yes Amit, I agree that aliens genetically engineered humans in Sumer but were they the greys, the greens or the blacks?” “My dear Rico, it was obviously the dark greys”. “No”, comes Aspumpin’s reply, “definitely the greens”. “Greys”, “greens”, “black ones”. “How dare you say it was the greys”. You are an unbeliever”, cries Amit. And so the discussion continued.
    Sometime later.
    Rico [who has now stopped bouncing around]: Look you fool it could only have been the greens ‘cos it’s written on the walls at Baalbek.
    PNG: No, it’s on the pyramid walls that it was the greys.
    Rico: There’s no writing on the pyramid walls
    Amit: But look at the evidence in the mayan scriptures.
    Jet Assisted Takeoff: Where’s my bleeding unicorn?
    Gnosic Joe. People, people stay calm. Look to your inner self and seek the real truth.
    All: Piss off.
    Random word generating computer: Shh….. I can hear…… something outside…… a sort of dull…… thudding perhaps it’s……. philosophical.
    Maddness: Let me at ‘em, let me at ‘em. Grrrrr.
    Outside we see the scientists after having lowered the lead box into a hole filling in the hole with books and texts on rational thought, scientific approaches to problem solving etc and all topped off with the traditional heavy slab of stone.

    I thank you

  1720. leah just wondering… if my dna is altered during my lifetime am a different person than i was formorly? is my soul or “higher self’ fundamentally altered?
    and why do space particles effect men more than women?

  1721. Owain,

    There is ongoing research about the effects of electro magnetism, high energy paticles, ionised radiation, cosmic radiation etc etc on DNA, metabolism, behaviour etc.

  1722. Dear BC,

    The body is constantly renewing itself……e.g on average skin takes 1 year to be completely renewed.
    As Owain explained……DNA is altered by the conditions encountered…..some of which de-activate vital parts of the DNA code….resulting in death.

    Re the effects in more men than women…..one of the answers is…..the difference in hormones.

    Be well,
    Leah

    With regards to the higher self……I can only speak for myself and say that, fundementally I have not changed…….however some fine tuning has occured due to perception re life experiences.

  1723. To BC: Your DNA is being affected and to some extent altered all the time. Cosmic rays, X-rays, pollution etc all damage your DNA. Many mutations are caused by the above destroying parts of the genetic code. If it’s altered too much you will die. As to your soul, well if you believe your soul exists as a higher brain function then that would degrade as the DNA was destroyed.
    Where did you get the information or idea that ‘space particles’ affect men more than women.

  1724. Dear Paul Eaton-Jones,

    Hope you are well.
    This is so…..although in some much earlier than around 18……..and a few much later in life.

    We are all much more than just the sum total of our Genes. The emotional atmosphere and conditions in which each grows up, has a great influence on the fundemental personality and character, and continues to fine tune throughout life.

    The memory of physical pain, say of injury to the physical body, pales with the passing of time…..but emotional pain does not. Cruel hurtful words, and acts not of a physical nature e.g. lying…..cheating…..mental cruelty in general…….and the pain they cause, are remembered for a lifetime, even festering in some.

    Be well,
    Leah

  1725. good morning…all

    amit–so grateful you have the “who-what-when-where-why and how’s” to ask those quetions…

    ThemOrUs—welcome—are you related to margaret??? just curious–saw a similarity there…be well…

  1726. I think it was Einstein who said something along the lines that what we will become in later life is more or less cast by the time we are 18.

  1727. No not related to Margaret but saw what she was getting at and have to agree with her. Decided to go with the flow.
    As the great Frank Zappa said “Scientists tell us the the most abundant substance in the universe is hydrogen. I disagree I reckon it’s stupidity”. Boy, would he have had a great time here.

  1728. “One of my favorite philosophical tenets is that people will agree with you only if they already agree with you. You do not change people’s minds”.
    Frank Zappa

  1729. First off I want to say Hello to Leah, Becky, Amit, Madness, Just A Thought, and Paul.

    Now I want to address this asinine statement by our friend Owain.

    Owain Says:
    March 4th, 2009 at 1:50 am
    To Amit: All I see when you’re discussing astronomy with Paul is a series of questions that constantly go over the same ground. How many times does he have to explain the current theory of the moon’s formation?

    Owain, I didn’t read what Paul said to Amit about the formation of the moon. But my understanding is that there are SEVERAL current scientific theories about the moons formation.

    How do you explain that? Scientist offer their own theories based on their deductions and the foundation of prior discoveries.

    There is no “current” absolute on the formation of the moon so Amits ideas are as valid as any “currently” offered.

    I thought you were smart but you still have that character flaw that makes you feel superior and in your haste to end your crap post by calling Amit a troll you somehow used that silly wording – “current theory”.

    You also failed to mention that science offers more than one theory as to moons formation.

    Good stuff, but I got tired a while back of dealing with the likes of you and Gordy.

    What you guys should practice is an old saying. It goes like this.

    “The only thing I know, is that I don’t know nothing”.

    Because thats closer to the facts than the crap you guys spew in here.

    Science is only a record of proven events.

    I’m not a scientist, but if I went into some unknown cave tomorrow and found an intact UFO of otherwordly origin then this would become a scientific fact. Not because so much research went into but because it was discovered. Then its an official record and its science.

    But you can’t use science as a type of logic because science in itself is an incomplete entity, it grows and grows and will never be complete. What you scoff at today will be the science you defend tomorrow.

    I’m also concerned about that asteroid that passed within 39,000 miles of our planets satellites.

    This is very close. How come no one mentioned it days before? No one saw this thing coming. There are supposedly something like 21,000 pieces out there just like that that we are not tracking.

    I hope that you guys are right, I hope that 2012 is just another date like any other. But I doubt it.

    Its nice to create a comfort zone. We all have them. But if something should happen with regards to this 2012 event. Its going to be the end of our comfort zones at the very least.

    To me it feels like we’re living in a countdown.

    By the way, for the people that I saluted at begining of this post, you may be interested in looking at this place.

    http://2012-comet.com

    Have a nice weekend,

    Rico

  1730. Margaret,

    If you’ve been following this post for most then your summary is wanting to say the least.

    Let me ask you something woman. This science that you so defend. Is this the science of today? The scieence of yesteday or the science of tomorrow?

    If we star with the science of yesterday the tell me what good bleeding patients did in the old days as this was science.

    Should I go on abut old science? So many incorrects practices that were called science.

    I didn’t say aliens built all of the ancient structures.

    But Margie, do offer a scientific explanation for the moving and raising that monoliths at Baalbek.

    1000 ton stones moved 6 miles and raised, placed as a foundation.

    Was the technolgy better then? Because we dont have the technology to accomplish that today.

    Is that Bible meaningless? Are all religions without foundation?

    You can’t answer any of those questions because your God science hasn’t given you this knowledge.

    You’re right in one aspect though, the so-called science guys should have left long ago.

    Science is limted to available knowledge and so are you if all you believe is what is already discovered. You have no imagination and ni ideas or theories. Sort of like a theologian that only studies whats in the bible but isn’t allowed to study the apocrypha.

    Limited.

    Now its Margie, Owhine, Gordo, and the rest of European snobs that call themselves scientist here.

    Brigham Young once said that 6000 years of scientifc proof existed that blacks were inferior to whites.

    What was it science about women as compared to men back in the days?
    Inferior?

    Science was born of religion, monks and the like were amongst the first doctors.

    Well now Margaret. Do you believe in yesterdays science? Todays science? Will you believe tomorrows?

    Yeah, thats what I thought. You will pick and choose what you believe just like any of us.

    So I think you’re a fool for putting all of your faith in a science thats been wrong in the past. Sure science is good but its not total and it isn’t always right.

    You guys are a joke.

    -R-

  1731. Hi back at you R man And,
    Salutations to all>^<

    Case in point it was real- it was real big- it was real close- (relatively speaking)- not a word was spoken until after the fact.

    Great example of how “leaders” and “scientists” and some “leading scientits” build credibility.

    That is what I already know.

  1732. Rico. It may well be that an asteroid WILL hit the earth in 2012 but it WILL NOT have been predicted. Any collision is a random event. Even with our technology and close mapping of the orbits of known asteroids it is still very difficult to predict which of them will come close to the earth at some future point let alone if they will hit us. It would be so much easier if there were no other bodies in the solar system to affect their motion. We may say asteroid X will come very, very close in 2050 but should it pass close another asteroid or a major planet it could/will have it’s orbit radically altered. Whether this alteration brings it to an impact point or flings it out of near earth orbit is down to chance.

  1733. Rico: The currently accepted theory for the moon’s formation is the one Paul explained to Amit. Most, if not all the others have serious flaws. I don’t think Amit actually proposed an idea. In fact didn’t he he say,” I’m not a scientist and why should I have a theory?”.

    Btw, didn’t Margaret say she was a psychologist and NOT an astronomer? Unlike you and the other lunatic fringe here she doesn’t appear to have an opinion or theory about every bleeding subject.

  1734. On what do you base your assertion that the Europeans here are snobs? [BTW, Gordy is an Aussie]. Could it be that you see us as snobs because you’re continually challenged when you make ridiculous claims? Calling us that is like your last refuge. Be happy with your crackpot ideas but don’t bother me/us/anyone with them. Be magnanimous and stop pestering us.

  1735. RheeeeeeeeeCOOOOOO!!!!
    The Man, The myth, The Legend. Well spoken. Not that you need my validation. But as eloquently put, you reminded me of D. At least you are not lost. Do you know with todays advancements, you can build your own High Power Telescope. Thats Maddness, no go here http://beta.hacknmod.com/hack/build-your-own-high-power-telescope/
    & check it, check,check it out…
    Why do you think they didn’t tell the sheep, err masses? Everything is a C.T. then you wake up & wonder why you. LOLOl they sell a book to the masses a pet rock, in the 80’s I think. Then in ’08 they sell a book called the secert.
    C’mon how many of you brought it?
    Ok, got no point. Peace out everybody. Everybody drinks so shut up.
    R-Man you make me believe.
    Find a light. Before there is none. If you knew a war was coming, & no one believed you. What would you do? Not off the subject, Israel’s Prime Minister-designate Binyamin Netanyahu, who is supposed to take office in less than a month, seems to be firmly committed to not taking part in negotiations toward a Palestinian state. The US, on the other hand, is maintaining its support for a two-state solution. Challenges such as the Iranian threat and the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are sensitive and American wisdom, and pressure, are important to preventing a new war in the region.
    thats my story & i’m sticking to it.
    Did I mention getting a zippo???

  1736. rico!!!! so good to hear from you—and thank you…well said!!!!!

    JAT–as always@#$%^!!

    i, too, was a little alarmed about the “fly-by” that nobody saw coming…it certainly restored my faith….we can watch stars and plantets forming, but we can’t see a rock flying at us…makes me thing we need to change our focus, just a little…

    anyway—not much to say today—i can hear the “thank God’s” already…

    best wishes, and please be well…

  1737. What on earth can Rico make you believe Maddess? Oh yes, absolutely any crackpot idea.

  1738. Hey Rico,

    Good to hear from you!!!
    As you have seen, 2 new weirdos have popped out of their closets! One calls herself a Psychiatrist and the other has an ultra wild imagination!! Look at the dialogue he conjured up about Greys and Greens and whatever!!!!
    They think that they are doing a great service to the “Science” community, but if you ask me, they are only causing disgrace by their foolish words!

  1739. Give me something better to work with, buddy, and maybe I’ll come up with something less wild. Loser.

  1740. Found this site about 2 weeks ago, and has basically taken that time to get to this point in this thread for me.

    I find the ego and elitist attitude of the supposed “science” people on here a little laughable.

    Has history taught us nothing of the fact that we know so very very little about our world, let alone the universe. For anyone to demean or put down others ideas on subject matter that has no clear definitive answer, is a glowing example of the shortcomings in that individual to look beyond the blinders they have on (Have we not already seen this in the science community over and over again throughout history). While some of the ideas put forth by some, have been outside what many would consider the norm, it makes them no less valid at this point, than the other unproven theories/ideas.

    As an engineer, I was taught to always challenge the norms….to look beyond what is possible today. I always thought that scientists would be cut from the same cloak….apparently not.

    I have no answers myself. Maybe what we are seeing today is indication of a pole shift to happen in 2012. Maybe its nothing but “noise” in the overall life cycle of the planet. The FACT is, is that nobody truly knows. I personally find the numerous “coincidences” leading to something happening in 2012 quit intriuging.

    Atleast Im honest enough to myself to admit that there may be things out there that I don’t know the answers to, and which could be beyond my comprehension. Apparently their are numerous individuals on here who prefer to be intellectually dishonest with themselves. Maybe one day they’ll come down from their pedestals and take their blinders off long enough to converse and debate like normal people.

  1741. Wisdom Cometh,

    Wise words indeed…..
    Welcome to the thread!!
    You are right about the History of Science, they are time and again proved wrong by their successors and the definition of Science keeps changing thus.
    Dont worry about their pedestals and blinders, all in due time…
    Even i used to think that “Scientists” are Open minded… And if you ask me, i dont even consider them scientists, barring one gentleman…
    Most of them are Good For Nothing Smart Asses like ThemOrUs…. They just add nuisance value, otherwise their existence doesn’t even matter to us.
    I’m sure you will be discouraged and ridiculed here if you continue in the same breath as you have begun, but dont worry, there are many here who will lend a patient ear and welcome your thoughts….

  1742. Gordy,

    I’m quite amused by thsi post of yours…

    “Owain. Be wary of taking the middle ground. You’ll be seen and accused of accepting some of the muddle-headed thinking. Stick to telling the facts. If you’re asked top comment on the ridiculous don’t. I know you’re a professional but once you start engaging with the mad men it’s hard to get away as I found some time ago”

    You say you found it hard to get away!! Why, on the contrary you are reluctant to go, you seem to be revelling in this verbal duel! Discouraging your friend from even taking a middle ground, through a ridiculous logic! Why do you worry about him? Is he a kid that we will lure over to our side?? Come On!! And as for telling the facts… How many “facts” have you told us till date??

  1743. ThemOrUs,

    You need something better to work with huh??
    Go and argue with a toddler, i think you might be able to match his mental level….

  1744. wisdon cometh–
    welcome, and thank you…you are a breath of fresh air.. please don’t be a stranger…

  1745. Maybe a toddler would give me something better to work with. Probably get more sense form one.
    Wisdom cometh a breath of fresh air? Ha. Same old rubbish about ‘something’ happening in 2012. Yes, something will happen. It would be strange indeed if we have a 12 month without something happening. But it will not have been predicted by Mayans, Sumerians or even Rico and Amit.

  1746. Yes Amit science does change generation after generation. No new revelation there. I don’t believe any scientist here has said that.
    Scientists all say that there are things we don’t know so WC isn’t saying anything new or original there.

  1747. WC. I don’t really know where you get the idea the scientists here are elitist. If you think that calling some of the more outlandish ideas posted here rubbish, garbage or bullshit and asking for demonstrable proof elitist then o.k. All the replies I, Gordy and of course Paul have given to serious astronomical, geological, archaeological queries have been given in a calm rational way. Aliens tampering with human DNA is in the realms of fairy land and should be challenged for proof.

  1748. Owain,

    I do think that resorting to demeaning ideas is elitist. Yes, some of the things put forth through these 100+ pages are most definitely out there. But again, most (if not all) of the ideas Ive seen debated here have been on subject matter that there is no definitive answer.

    Now while I personally may put the odds that aliens tampered with Human DNA at about a 0.000000001% chance of happening….I, nor you, nor anyone has any definive proof one way or another. We know so extraordinarily little about human civilizations just 3000+ years old, let alone those of 5000+ years. For anyone to say with any certanity that they know for sure what happened back then is fooling themselves. Especially since what written history we do have points to early civilizations accomplishing feats that seam near impossible with their current day resources.

    Now while its completely civil, and quit constructive to ask for further explanations behind these ideas (which actually Ive seen quit a bit of throughout these discussions), and proof if any exists, its quit elitist to dismiss and demean without any proof yourself.

    I mean lets all be honest, nothing is going to be solved on these forums. The general purpose really here should be to have intelligent conversations that let us all have a more well-rounded understanding of some of these subject matters. Ive personally learned alot by reading through this thread, both from the scientists as well as those like Rico and Amit. Debate, no matter what subject matter, is almost always a good thing.

  1749. What puts the anti-science group apart is their eagerness to attack anyone as crazy if a newcomer arrives to challenge their delusions or crazy ideas. One is immediately put in the enemy camp and put down as a “follower of Paul”. He was the first to mount a sustained challenge to Rico/Amit/JAT etc. If one doesn’t adhere to the tenets of their ideology, and it is an ideology, then you’re an unbeliever, a member of the establishment bent on covering up or subverting the ‘evidence’. They follow a well trodden path.

  1750. WC says: Now while its completely civil, and quit constructive to ask for further explanations behind these ideas (which actually Ive seen quit a bit of throughout these discussions), and proof if any exists, its quit elitist to dismiss and demean without any proof yourself.

    On the contrary. If ‘they’ make outrageous claims such as aliens tampering with human DNA it is up to them to provide the proof. And it should be demonstrable, verifiable and repeatable proof. The proof the scientists can put forward is that there is no evidence. And in tis case it can be said with virtual 100% certainty that absence of evidence is evidence of absence. One grows increasingly tired of them constantly whining about prejudice against them and nobody taking their claims seriously. Whenever challenged to provide the evidence you get directed to web sites maintained by followers of long-discredited authors or authors who are not versed in scientific rigour or procedures.

  1751. I don’t believe you want proof or truth. I have read enough…

    “If ‘they’ make outrageous claims such as aliens tampering with human DNA it is up to them to provide the proof.”

    by Dr. John Chang

    Arguably, the greatest challenge to humanity may be to re-affirm an invigorating context of empathy and peace with one another. Researchers suggest that this human challenge may very pivot on the ability of humanity to overcome regressive alien intrusions and deceptions.

    The historical testimonies of ancient communities, indigenous people, and modern eyewitnesses suggest that there is some kind of genetic programme that is being directed against humanity. This has been linked to accounts of alien abductions. Furthermore, scholars like Zecharia Sitchin suggest regressive aliens travelled to Earth during an ancient era, to pursue the creation of alien-human hybrids as a “ruling caste”. David Icke, supported by the testimony of African elder Credo Mutwa, suggest that these alien-human hybrids continue to preside over Earth’s institutions.

    However, before dismissing outright such claims, the unprejudiced “scientific mind” would tend to critically query such a representation.

    Indigenous knowledge along with the insights on “pagan” (pre-Christian) Gnostics suggests that humanity, all living things on Earth, along with the Earth itself are all one. If we at least for a moment, embrace such an insight, then, what accounts for the apparently spiralling decent of humanity into social and environmental destruction? Most people, it would seem, would love to protect the environment, and ensure a context for social justice among people, that affirms human quality-of-living. If that is the case, then what is holding humanity back? Humans seek the protection of their environment are also seeking a context of peace and social justice, because apparently at least subconsciously, humanity does in fact recognize its “oneness” with one another, and with the Earth in general.

    The fact that there seems to be a group(s) on Earth, that seems to operate with their own ego-driven agenda, separate from the overwhelming majority of humanity, supports the hypothesis of the operation of some kind of regressive alien consciousness, that operates through “human hosts”. This idea was further elaborated in the book Atlantis, Alien Visitation and Genetic Manipulation by Michael Tsarion.

    John Lash, suggests that the alien tampering of Human DNA, that is alleged by Tsarion, may have something to do with fractals.

    A word on fractals: although fractal-like patterns appear in nature (in ferns, for instance: the disposition of the leaves on a stem is repeated in the form of the stemmed branches), the self-similar forms produced by high iteration are not natural, strictly speaking. Fractals such as those pictured here result from feeding a mathematical formula into a computer and having the formula reprocess itself, over and over again. However, the forms so produced do resemble the famous “paisley” seen by many people who took LSD in the 1960s. I would argue, first, that fractals are consistently seen in altered states, and second, that the patterns thus seen may also represent real, though supernatural processes in the cosmos at large…
    Thus the tensile forms morph from semi-rigid seahorses into rounded foetal forms with tails, but the tails, it seems, keep falling off and turning into other embryos. By this bizarre process of self-repeating generation, the neonate horde of the Archons emerges.

    Scientists have found fractal patterns in human “junk” DNA, that are consistent with the fractals that the Gnostics linked to regressive aliens”

    Now add DNA to the catalogue of things fractal-like. ‘There is some magical phenomenon going on that we just do not understand,’ says H. Eugene Stanley, a physicist at Boston University.

    Physicists backed the suspicions a few years ago, when those studying fractals noticed certain patterns in junk DNA. They found that noncoding sequences display what are termed long-range correlations. That is, the position of a nucleotide depends to some extent on the placement of other nucleotides. Their patterns follow a fractal-like property called 1/f noise, which is inherent in .many physical systems that evolve over time, such as electronic circuits, periodicity of earthquakes and even traffic patterns. In the genome, however, the long-range correlations held only for the non-coding sequences; the coding parts exhibited an uncorrelated pattern. Those signs suggested that junk DNA might contain some kind of organized information. To decipher the message, Stanley and his colleagues Rosario N. Mantegna, Sergey V. Buldyrev and Shlomo Haviin collaborated with Amy L Goldberg, Chung-Kang Peng and Michael Simons of Harvard Medical School. They borrowed from the work of linguist George K. Zipf who by looking at texts from several languages ranked the frequency with which words occur. Plotting the rank of words against those in a text produces a distinct relation. The most common word “the” in English occurs 10 times ,than the 10th most common word, 100 times more often than the 100th most common, and so forth.
    The late Harvard scholar John Mack studied alien abductions. He remarked:

    “The idea that we could be reached by some other kind of being, creature, intelligence that could actually enter our world and have physical effects as well as emotional effects, was simply not part of the world view that I had been raised in…”
    Dr Mack’s research documented on-going alien abduction experiments consistent with an ego-driven eugenics agenda against humanity. These documented abductions were cited to involve:

    “[P]robing of their body, their body orifices; and a complex process whereby they sense in the case of men, sperm removed; in the women, eggs removed; some sort of hybrid offspring created which they’re brought back to see in later abductions. That’s the sort of literal experience.”
    Now, the effect of that is—or what seems to be going on there, in a number of abductees — not just people I see, but the ones Budd Hopkins and other people see — is to produce some kind of new species… [that] will populate the earth or will be there to carry evolution forward, after the human race has completed what it is now doing.
    The ancient Gnostics recorded the attempts of regressive aliens called Archons to inseminate the human species:

    The theme of alien insemination of the human race also occurs in archaic narratives from ancient Sumeria, dating to the third millennium BCE, and it is rampant in contemporary ET/UFO lore. Sumerian accounts describe an alien species called the Annunaki, who are credited with producing the human species by genetic engineering, and also with inaugurating civilization. These narratives are found on cuneiform tablets dating to circa 1800 BCE, but they preserve late redactions of much earlier versions. Apparently, the story about alien intervention is one of the oldest scripts of our species. Many people who follow the ET/UFO debate are aware of the Sumerian accounts of the Annunaki, who are easily equated with modern-day ETs, but there is a total absence of reference to the Gnostic scenario of the Archons in the controversy so far.
    The Gnostic account of Archon/Annunaki activities differs on many significant points from what is found in the Sumerian accounts. For one thing, Gnostics did not regard Archons as superior beings who jump-start civilization. Nor did they consider the Archons capable of accessing the human genome (called by them the Anthropos), although they did grant some role for Archontic activity in our physical evolution. This point is extremely difficult to clarify, however… By far the most striking difference between the Sumerian and Gnostic accounts is that the former contain no inkling of the Sophia mythos and no explanation of how the Archons, alias Annunaki, originated. This is a considerable lacuna, to say the least.

    In his elaborate reworking of the Sumerian materials, Zecharia Sitchin describes the Annunaki as a highly advanced non-human species who inhabit the planet Nibiru, an outrider of the solar system with a period of 3600 years. In Sitchin’s version of prehistory, the Annunaki came to earth in quest of gold for manufacturing a colloidal suspension needed to stabilize their atmosphere. (For a full account, see Sitchin’s last book, The Lost Book of Enki.) …

    [But] Significantly, Sitchin never describes the physical appearance of the Annunaki of either type. One of the great benefits of the Gnostic Archon scenario is that it does provide vivid descriptions of these entities. Is it a coincidence that the embryonic and serpentine Archons described in Gnostic texts present an identical match to the two kinds of ETs most frequently reported in modern times, the Greys and the Reptilians? If the Gnostics got this part of the intervention scenario right, what else did they get right?

  1752. Well put Owain.

    WC: I’d be interested to know which ‘numerous coincidences’ you are referring in elation to 2012

  1753. Jeez. Are we STILL dragging up the Annunki/Sitchin/alien abductions? There has been no demonstrable proof that ANYONE has been abducted. Unless of course one includes the people called Bubba from the backwoods in Alabama.
    One could weep, honestly.

  1754. welcome, dr. john chang!!! it is, indeed, a privilege to make your acquaintance…thank you for your insight…

  1755. owain..really??@@%^&*((??

    david icke was not DOCTOR chang’s only source of reference…i would be interested in his credientials…i did not get the sense that he was just another mindless “non-believer”, void of depth and substance…

    best wishes…

  1756. In addtion to diminishing Bee populations, Birds en mass have died on the wing and dropped out of the sky on numerous occasions.
    The number of incidences of Marine mammals beaching themselves has increased….e.g. the present Kings Island beaching, not to mention the number of animals envolved increasing……..this time 200 plus beached.

    The increase in the number of Cancer cases, Thyroid problems, Behavioural and mental disorders, birth defects, blindness even in wild animals……ozone depletion, tear in magnetosphere, weakening / shifting magnetic field….a subtle increase in the amount of radiation reaching Earth….rising temperatures, melting ice caps, increase in the intensity of hurricanes, out of season tornadoes, wild fires…….and the list goes on.

    That these should all be happening simultaneously is naturally……mere coincidence and mean absolutely nothing…..except to those upon whom it has had an impact…….they are many, and there will be more. Complacency is a deadly thing….as is assumption……that these things only ever happen to others……but never to you.

    How can it harm anyone to aquire at least a working knowlege of all the sciences in particular, which are most relevant to the status quo of conditions on and around Earth right now, and in the near future.

    When studying ancient accounts e.g. those found by archeologists……it is possible to find much that is science……just not written in the same context / perspective that we relate to easily today. Why do some limit themselves to only ever looking at a slice of the cake…….when they could look at the whole cake.

  1757. PEJ –

    Coincidences like:

    Mayan long calendar ending on Dec 21, 2012
    The earth, sun and galatic equator being in alignment on Dec 21, 2012
    Moving into a high point of solar activity from the sun starting around 2012
    Minor indications of a polar shift, starting from a weaking magnetic field to ancillary items like the honey bees disappearing
    You could even move into some of the more “fringe” aspects like the supposed timewave zero of the i-ching, or St. Malachys prophecy of 112 popes. And even stretch it to the possible breakdown of society that we are witnessing from the global meltdown of the financial markets, to the class warfare being perpetrated in several countries, to the growing problems in the middle east.

    Maybe all of this is hogwash (and nothing will happen), but to me, its a lot of “coincidences”.

    I think that way too often we bury our heads in the sand and refuse to see the many signs around us for something coming in the near future (whether thats things as simple as the possibility of losing a job, to the more extreme possibilities of global change). Too many are so resistant to change, that they dismiss these signs and attempt to trivialize them in order to feel safe in their own little world.

    Of course, with you already coming in with your preconceived notions to make the jump from my “intrigued” to “elation”, I can already sense an elitist pompous response coming. (Hopefully Im proven wrong, but I doubt it).

  1758. Sup doc, took you long enough. I thought you would say something sooner. Anyway Gj & Aizou spoke very highly of you. Hope you stick around and add your thoughts.
    I know your kinda still stuck in the fast lane of life, slow down enough for these ppl with fake credentials, to see how real minds think.
    Oh, hi there everyone in T.V land. yes as you see Raven isn’t the only one we know. The madness hasn’t even started.
    But hey, at least you can e-mail my freinds, they”ll talk to you at a lecture, an e-mail, over the telephone, they’ll tell you WAKE-UP!!!! & learn the Truth. Everything is one.

    May you find your light,
    Cuz you ain’t using mine.

  1759. Se non e vero, e ben trovato.
    I mean as far as Maddness & co. are concerned. No?

  1760. An actor walks upon the floodlit stage of life
    wearing a mask of an angel beneath a demon’s gown.
    Pretence smiles upon the crowded hall of life
    holding out hope as bright as it is false.
    Son of a woman in whose veins flows the blood
    of ancient Ireland and dark Africa’s plains.
    You are Obama, nick-named the standing king
    You are Barack, oh, son born to deceive
    The suffering hoards of Africa look up to you,
    See a black saviour where nought but a Judas strides.
    An entrapper of nations, bringer of dismal war
    Behind the robes and the nylon wings of hope
    Oh, may those who look upon you, see you as you are.
    May those who hope in you behold you as you be
    A prince deceitful to bring down Africa’s shrines
    A siren who leads Africa’s ships onto rocks of obliteration.
    Your rule my lord will not be one of peace
    Your reign my king will not be one of smiles
    Even as we speak in caves both dark and dank
    Enraged fanatics plot your dark demise
    They will put around your head a bloodwet martyr’s crown.
    Oh black Kennedy following the one before
    May God forgive thee and thy fiery spouse
    As you walk in silence from the stage of life
    Barack Obama, blessed son, Oh standing king.

  1761. WC: Firstly the alignment between the earth, sun and galactic equator doesn’t happen. If you would like top scroll back a few pages I believe I answered the same or very similar question asked by Leah. May I suggest you check out an astronomical web site which will deal with this. Google earth/galactic equator alignment and you’ll get an explanation. Simply put such a line up can’t happen as our solar system ‘poles’ are at right angles to the galaxy’s axis.
    Honey bees appear to have been the victim of a virus [vacarra?]

  1762. David Icke was at onetime a professional footballer – he played in goal for Coventry City. After he retired he became a football pundit and then moved into green politics. He totally blew his career when he announced on television that the earth was under the control of a race of green lizards. Not perhaps the most reliable of witnesses. Other than that and other way out ideas he was, and probably still is, a nice bloke.

  1763. Albert Einstein predicted that the honey bees would die in our generation from HIS time 1879 – 1955. Could it have been obvious or evident that the bees would die from his time period? What lead him to predict such a thing? – Now that the honey bees are dying off . . . what do you think about the other part of his statement that goes something like “mankind will have only 3-5 years after the bees die off to live?”
    Oh wait, forget all that. We have the great Paul Eaton-Jones & co. explaining Honey bees appear to have been the victim of a virus [vacarra?]
    Wow, but was Einstein a prophet? Why bees, why didn’t he say Citrus friuts? Fish? Things that are in our daily life, that we need to survive, & is in alot of our foods even if we don’t know it?
    Paul-Wiki-pedia, i’m talking to you, ya got answers?

  1764. Well unfortunately I’ll have to chime in on the honey bees, as most things point to the Einstein quote being fabricated.

    That being said, honey bees are disappearing, and while a virus is one “theory” on it, theres no definitive answer on this. Other theories include cell phone tower interference as well as the diminished magnetic field around earth. I guess point being, no one knows for sure yet.

  1765. Credo mutwa: The theory/idea that honey bees, i n Britain at least, are suffering from a virus was reported in the Times last week.
    Yes I’ll supply answers. Answers to questions on astronomy, geology and possibly archaeology. I’m not prepared to enter into arguments on religion as I have no interest in it. the same goes for some of the more outre ideas that find their way here.
    Don’t throw Einstein at me as a prophet/fount of all knowledge he was wrong on a number of things. How wonderfully convenient for you that we have 3-5 years after the bees die off before we follow them. 2009 + 3 = 2012. Wow. Now that’s what I CALL a coincidence
    And thank you so much for calling me great. Never thought of myself as such. Thank you once again.

  1766. Dr. John Chang,

    Welcome to the thread….
    Dont be surprised if some other sources you mentioned, like John Mack and Credo Mutwa are also ridiculed here…..
    Agree there are lots of coincidences involved with 2012, thats why i call it “A convergence of possibilities”.

  1767. Wisdom Cometh,

    Yes, no one knows for sure..
    Except these “Scientists” who seem to know everything…

  1768. Why do these guys keep harping about “Outrageous” ideas and “Proofs” ??
    When i talk in Scientific Terms about Evolution, they conveniently shy away ,saying that its not their area of expertise.. While every other subject under the Sun is indeed their area of expertise!!
    There are innumerable proofs that Evolution is impossible. And more proofs about Intelligent Design present in every single thing on Earth.. I have also talked about the amazing characteristics of DNA which further proof the impossibility of Evolution.
    Still these guys keep ranting that we present only “Unscientific” and unprovable ideas!
    Come on, the onus is upon you to unprove what i have said… Those questions still remain open!

  1769. Dear Leah,

    Its only natural to look for a string tying together all these coincidences….
    Especially when there are so many pointers.
    It cannot be said that we are looking for connections where there are none! Its more a case of “them” denying the corelation when its quite evident…
    Its so very convenient for them to look at each slice separately, rather than the whole cake!
    And its so easy to discard the ancient texts as “Fantasy” and early Religion as “Fiction” …
    On the contrary, Scientists should be foremost in deciphering the Science that is there is Enuma Elish and Bible and numerous other scriptures across the world!
    The mention of “Flying Vehicles” and “Wepons of Mass Destruction” and “Surgeries” was thought of as “Fiction”, but with the advancement in Science, we know these as “Facts” now.. Its like we are slowly reaching their level… And when these things earlier considered impossible are coming true, there is every possibility that more things will come to light…..

  1770. WC,

    You mentioned the probability of Aliens tampering with hunman DNA as 0.000000001%
    You know what the probability of Evolution?
    A living cell is so awesomely complex that its interdependent components stagger the imagination and defy evolutionary explanations. A minimal cell contains over 60,000 proteins of 100 different configurations.16 The chance of this assemblage occurring by chance is 1 in 10 Raised to Power 4,478,296 !!
    So which probablity do you think is more possible??

  1771. “I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; or kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.” I Timothy 2:1-6
    The Search for God
    The Promised Messiah (as): The truth is that a person should not be satisfied with the outer shell alone and no person likes to be satisfied with just the shell. Rather, a person wishes to move forward and God seeks to take him to that very kernel and spirit which a person by nature wishes to attain. The name of God is a name in which the soul finds pleasure. For the soul there is no satisfaction to be found in the names of any religion.
    But the thing is that if a person wishes that everything should happen at once, that a person should attain to the highest levels of knowledge of God in an instant, that can never be. In this world everything happens gradually. There is no knowledge or skill that a person does not have to learn with patience and dedication. It is necessary that he should move systematically through the different stages. You see, the farmer has to wait after he has sown the seed. First he puts one of his dearest things into the ground from where they can easily be picked by animals or ‘swallowed’ by the earth or wasted through some other means. But experience gives him comfort that a time will come when these seeds of grain which have now been entrusted to the earth, will bear result and in time there will be a green and lush field, and this seed thrust into the ground will turn into his food and livelihood.
    It is so in order to convey to the person who hears the name Jesus that he who truly believes in the word and practices it, is a person who has true knowledge of God.
    But, yes, his law is such that everything is done gradually and systematically. Hence, if one is not patient and does not have positive expectations, success is difficult. I remember once a person came to me and said that the holy people of earlier times used to make people reach great (spiritual) heights with one blow of their breath. I told him that he was mistaken. This is not God’s way of doing things. If you were to lay the floor in a house, it is necessary to first, repair any parts which are in need of repair and wherever there is any filth or dirt, to cleanse it and to purify it with a disinfectant. In short, the ground will be made ready for laying the floor only after a great many schemes and methods have been employed. The human heart is the same.
    Very unfortunate indeed is the person who sets out in search of the truth and then does not hold positive expectations (regarding the outcome). Learn at least from the potter and see how much he has to do to make a pot of clay. Watch the laundry man, how much hard work he has to do when he begins to clean dirty and soiled clothes. Sometimes he puts the clothes on the boil, sometimes he rubs them with soap and through different means draws out the dirt and at last the clothes come out clean and white. All the dirt that was in them is washed out. If there is need for so much patience for such inferior things then how foolish is the person who, for the sake of reforming his life and for the sake of the removal of the dirt and filth found in his heart, desires that they should all be drawn out with a single blow and the heart should thereby be cleansed!

    May you find your light

  1772. good morning , all…not much i can add, except that it is a recurring thought that there are no such things as “coincidences”…they are “clues” or signs, and should be heeded as such…

    be well… please enjoy your day…

  1773. OK Amit let’s go with your idea that aliens DID tamper with human DNA. Were the aliens also ‘free’ from evolution given your amazingly ‘precise’ numbers against evolution? How did they develop? Perhaps they too were tampered with.

  1774. Nowhere on this thread has any scientist or supporter of science said they know everything. We admit our deficiencies in knowledge and will look for the answers rather than say the answers are there if you only open your eyes to them.

  1775. To PNG. Thank you for clogging up the site with more of your philosophy’s meandering nonsense. No doubt it inspires some who are unable to their way unaided and rely on ambiguous ramblings.

  1776. Amit: says” Innumerable proofs that evolution is impossible.”
    Where?
    Intelligent Design is just another mealy-mouthed phrase for creationism. It is not under any circumstances a science or scientific approach to .. well anything.
    By no means is everything else under the sun bar evolution ‘our area of expertise’
    Once again you do NOT offer any kind of proof for these outrageous ideas.

  1777. We thought, because we had power, we had wisdom. But, instead we learned that, life is not lost by dying; life is lost minute by minute, day by dragging day, in all the thousand small uncaring ways.

    May you find your light

  1778. Stephen,

    What the hell are you going on about??
    The fact that you jump on to the therad with absurd comments without reaidng my posts doesn’t mean that i will go on repeating the proofs i have posted time and again..

    Once again, your comments reflect your own short sightedness an brash attitude.

  1779. Owain,

    I knew that this question will surely pop up!

    But, “Evolution” and “Development/Advancement” are 2 different terms.. A society that came into being much earlier than the Earthlings is bound to be more advanced, right?? And the rate at which the Humans are advancing Technologcally should bear a testimony to that…

    Another thing, we are just discussing a possibility of Alien Intervention and Intelligent Creation, at no point did i say that its a FACT. But neither do i discard that possibility.

  1780. Round and round, in the end we will find out. If Lil A were still alive it would have been interesting to get his veiw.

    Salutations#$%^&*@!

  1781. good morning—
    amit–thanks, as always..

    just a thought–always good to hear from you…perhaps Lil A is still around, in a sense…he is fondly remembered…

    i can’t help but wonder what makes this “alien intervention” idea so disturbing and so appalling to some…i’m just saying…
    it most cetainly would “throw a wrench” in the works, wouldn’t it?@#$%%??

    also, just another obscure thought about the honey bees…if a virus was killing them off, wouldn’t there be a trail of little “bee carcuses”??? not the case, here is arizona…they have just “disappeared”…nothing to analyze…they are just gone…even the “beekeepers” and the “bee farms” are scratching their heads…

    please enjoy your day—be well…

  1782. PnG–thanks…i, for one, do not expect to wake up some morning, and find myself “enlightened”..i don’t think that is the case, either, for any of the other regulars here, who know better…thanks for sharing your thoughts…

    leah–as well…and always…

  1783. By Adrian Higgins
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Tuesday, May 14, 2002; Page A01

    Under cover of darkness, Wilson Bowles loads up his 1958 Dodge pickup and heads west toward the mountains with his sleeping cargo.
    Bowles is carrying 20 hives of honeybees from his apiary in Boyce, Va., to the apple orchards on the far side of Winchester — 1 million bees, now snug and huddled for the night between frames of honey and brood comb.
    The next morning, the sun coaxes them out into a new world — the 350-acre fruit orchard of John Marker, where the bees will spend much of April gorging themselves on the pollen and nectar of 45,000 apple and pear trees.
    Marker used to count on bees just showing up in his orchards, but no more. The farmer’s abiding friend for thousands of years, the honeybee in America stands on the edge of the abyss.
    In recent years, two tiny spider-like parasites have been weakening and killing bee populations across the United States. While the mass media have played up the threat of Africanized “killer” bees in the Southwest, the rest of the country has been losing 80 percent or more of its wild honeybee populations.
    Only people living within a mile or two of a beekeeper have much chance of seeing the industrious, golden-bodied insect at work on a flower. For everyone else, this icon of the garden and orchard might as well be extinct.
    In the garden this means a scant harvest of cucumbers, squash, pumpkins and other vegetables requiring insect pollination, as well as feeble flowering and fruiting of many ornamental trees and shrubs. Wildflowers are not reseeding themselves as they should.
    Most important, one-third of food crops need insect pollination, of which the honeybeeis by far the most consistent and reliable source.
    Even commercial beekeepers, who take extraordinary measures to ward off pests and disease, are in trouble. During the winter of 2000-2001, Maryland was among East Coast states hit particularly hard by drought and mite-related causes. While a federal program has helped to restock the hives, winter losses generally remain far higher than in pre-mite times. Wild bees remain scarce; longtime beekeepers are calling it quits, and too few new ones are taking their place.
    Which is why beekeepers from California to Virginia are scratching their heads at the Bush administration’s proposal to close three of the four Department of Agriculture bee research laboratories, including the first, opened in the 1890s in Chevy Chase and moved to Beltsville in 1939.
    To save money and avoid possible duplication, the president has proposed closing the bee labs at Beltsville, Baton Rouge, La., and Tucson. The laboratory at Weslaco, Tex., would remain open. Funding would be reduced from $5.7 million to $2.5 million, and the number of positions cut from 21 to 9.
    “We certainly recognize the concern, but at the same time we have to reflect some national priorities right now,” said Alisa Harrison, spokeswoman for Agriculture Secretary Ann M. Veneman.
    But beekeepers interviewed said any duplication of efforts by the researchers is warranted in this crisis, and the cadre of scientists at the four labs represents the honeybee’s best hope for survival in the United States.
    “It’s like cutting all research for mad-cow disease just when an epidemic of the disease reaches its pinnacle and decimates our beef industry,” said Laszlo Pentek, an Arlington beekeeper.
    At Beltsville, researchers invented a widely used wire-screen base for beehives. As the bees come in for a landing, mites fall through the mesh to the ground and cannot climb back into the bee colony as they could with the old solid bases.
    The lab has also demonstrated that naturally occurring formic acid kills mites and is working on an effective delivery system.
    The Baton Rouge lab’s work may hold the key to the long-term survival of the bee, said Pat Heitkam, a commercial beekeeper in Orland, Calif., 100 miles north of Sacramento. The scientists in Louisiana hope to use genes from the resistant Russian honeybee to create a tolerance for the mites in bee races commonly used in America, notably the gentle and industrious three-banded Italian bee.
    But short-term fixes are also important, Heitkam said, especially because the mites are swiftly developing resistance to the chemicals now used to protect managed hives.
    Heitkam, president of the American Beekeepers Federation, was in a group that met recently with members of Congress and senior officials in the Department of Agriculture. The beekeepers’ blunt message, Heitkam said, was that “if you guys wanted to do more harm and save less money, you could not pick a better way to do it.”
    Appropriations subcommittees of the House and Senate meet in coming weeks to consider the fiscal 2003 budget, which goes into effect Oct. 1. “There have been requests from a lot of members of Congress to restore the funding,” said Lynn Becker, spokeswoman for Sen. Herb Kohl (D-Wis.), chairman of the agriculture subcommittee of the Senate Appropriations Committee.
    Heitkam supplies 8,000 of the 1 million beehives that the California almond industry needs in February and March to produce its crop. The nut trees bloom at a time when wild pollinators are scarce. “Without bees the almond crop would be a complete failure,” he said.
    Beekeepers hold back the ravages of the mites through a combination of methods, including the Beltsville screened bottom board; sugar and Crisco patties, which attract the bees and make them too greasy for mites to hitch a ride; and the use of miticides — but only after the honey is collected. Large, strong colonies, which require greater feeding and care to achieve, are better able to fend off the deadly effects of the mites.
    Heitkam estimates that fully one-third of the 1 million hives needed were too weak to press into service in the California groves this spring because of bee pests and diseases.
    The remaining bees — already stressed from being trucked on tractor-trailers — had to pick up the slack. This might sound like a plot for a Disney animated movie, except no one is laughing.
    “We are asking the bees to do more than we have ever done before,” said Heitkam.
    The varroa mite was discovered in Java in 1904 and came to the United States in 1986. It has spread to the 48 contiguous states and devastated bee colonies. The mites live in the hives and suck the bees’ vital fluid. The bees become sick and deformed, and the colony slowly dies off.
    The second parasite, the tracheal mite, came to the United States from Mexico in 1984. The mite lays eggs in the windpipe of the bees, whichfeed on their host after they hatch. This parasite can only be observed by dissecting dead bees and looking for the pest through a microscope.
    A third serious pest has now emerged, called the small hive beetle. Beekeepers are resigned to its spread and the need for careful management.
    Beekeepers are hoping the National Institutes of Health will select the honeybee as the next subject of genome sequencing, a $5 million to $10 million project with payoffs in a number of scientific areas, from human medicine to knowledge of evolution. But it would also yield keys to fighting bee pests and diseases, said Gene Robinson, an entomologist at the University of Illinois who is in a consortium making the request. But other groups are lobbying for different, higher organisms to be sequenced. An NIH task force is due to make a decision this month.
    Honeybees have always been susceptible to ailments and pests, from a hive-destroying malady called American foulbrood disease to honey-robbing by skunks and bears. In the old days, it didn’t matter, because the maladies were not ubiquitous. Healthy bees would swarm in the spring and live happily in old trees, ensuring honeybees in virtually every pasture and garden.
    But without help today, a wild colony “wouldn’t last a year,” Bowles said.
    “Man, you don’t see any anymore,” said Marker, 54, a fourth-generation apple grower on thisfertile upland of Frederick County, Va.
    Now, the woods have lost their buzz, and Marker must keep an eye on his apple blossoms to make sure that if they open early, as they did this year, Bowles would be ready to arrive with his booty.
    A youthful 68 with aShenandoah dialect as mellifluousas honey, Bowles made four runs to Marker’s orchard over a three-day period in April, delivering 102 hives just ahead of a heat wave that forced an early and swift blooming season. Each hive contains, conservatively, 50,000 bees, most of them female workers whose job is to fly during the day to collect the liquid nectar and the solid pollen the hive needs to sustain itself and expand.
    Along tractor paths at the edge of the orchards, Bowles placed the hives ingroups of eight,using a flashlight to find the wooden pallet bases that Marker had set out earlier. Over the next 10 days Bowles returned occasionally to check for swarms in nearby apple trees and then removed the hives the first week of May.
    Marker will get a bill for $2,754 — $27 a hive — and the pleasure of seeing clusters of tiny apples swelling from pollination. Each pip in an apple represents a fertilized seed. The more pips that are pollinated, the larger the apple. This is more important than ever for Marker, who is trying to shift his production from apples for processing to eating apples, which must be large to sell at a premium.
    With the unprecedented need for beekeepers, one might assume that this would be a growth industry. But the bees’ woes and the increased costs in time and materials and medications to keep bees has led to a reduction in the number of commercial apiarists, said Heitkam, who also raises fertile queens to sell to beekeepers nationwide.
    Keith Tignor, the state apiarist for Virginia, said feral populations have bounced back some since a 90 percent plunge in the winter of 1996-1997 that stemmed from mites and severe cold. But new wild colonies will be found only in the vicinity of managed hives from which they swarmed, he said, and the number of those has dropped dramatically as beekeepers throw in the towel. Before the mites, the state had 60,000 managed hives “and there are now fewer than 30,000,” said Tignor.
    In recent years, beekeepers have been losing 25 percent of their hives each winter. Thirty years ago, the rate was 5 percent to 10 percent, he said.
    In Maryland, where winter losses were not as bad this year as the previous winter’s 50 percent fall, the number of commercial hives has reportedly dropped from 16,000 to 10,000 since the arrival of the mites.
    Another factor is limiting beekeepers in the Shenandoah Valley: the loss of orchardists. Marker said there were 50 to 60 growers in the valley when he took over the family orchard in 1969, “and now you’re looking at 15 to 20 probably.”
    Similarly, the number of hobby beekeepers is down. At a garden festival at the Prince William County fairgrounds April 27, Rebecca Churchill and Tom Berry staffed a booth to sell the merits of the bee to the public and explain that the insect is in trouble.
    “People are just not aware of the situation,” Churchill said. The couple started the Prince William-Stafford Beekeepers Association last year. Membership so far: 20.
    “I think the honeybee is going to continue to be around,” Berry said. “There is enough interest and dedication in the beekeeping community to keep them going.”
    The stakes are high, and not just for Apis mellifera. At the booth, Berry stuck up a quotation attributed to Albert Einstein: “If the bee disappeared off the surface of the globe then man would only have four years of life left.”

    Check the date this was written again.

  1784. The Stone of Destiny is the stone that Jacob used as a pillow and had a dream in which he saw a stairway to heaven with angels ascending and descending (Genesis 28:10-22). So may I ask, why was it resting in Westminster Abbey for 700 years underneath the Coronation Chair, before the stone was moved back to Edinburgh Scotland?
    Oh wait, decoration!!! No, i’m sure the scientist know why.
    Is there any wonder why the Stone of Destiny is in the British Isles? This is where the house of Israel relocated and it was the tribe of Ephraim who were the caretakers of this anointed stone. This is that stone referred to as The Rock in the Old Testament. Also, this is that stone which was struck by Moses in order to provide water for the Israelites and their livestock while they wandered in the desert those forty years.
    But the british can’t believe in that hog-wash could they? & how did they get the stone from the Israeli people to begin with? Maybe they lent it to them. For what? Well sit back & let me fill you in on History they don’t think you need to know.
    Supposedly, the Hebrew prophet Jacob used it as a pillow when he dreamed of angels – except that it is almost certainly Scottish sandstone. From the Holy Land, legend says, the stone was reverently carried through Egypt, Sicily and Spain, reaching Ireland around 700 B.C. It rested on the hills of Tara where Irish kings were crowned.
    Celtic invaders carried it off around 840, it is said, to a monastery in Scone where it was lugged up to a nearby hill as the coronation seat for Scottish kings.
    Since it was spirited south – despite fierce opposition to English rule from nationalists such as William Wallace, a.k.a. Braveheart – the stone, has lived in London.
    At Westminster Abbey, it rested for centuries under the Coronation Chair, where the monarchs of England and Scotland are crowned, most recently Queen Elizabeth II.
    The stone, with the identifying mark of two iron rings – so it can be carried suspended from a pole – will go back to London temporarily for the coronations of all future British monarchs.
    About 1,000 people cheered the stone home at Coldstream, although no one actually saw it inside its steel box in the back of the jeep. Local Scottish kids had the day off, but for the English children on the other side of the border, it was lessons as usual.
    Now thats intresting…..but so is this.

    In the book by Edith Hamilton called, Mythology – Timeless Tales of Gods and Heroes, she describes… the goddess Europa, the daughter of the King of Sidon (the city just along the Mediterranean coast, West of the Northern tribes of Israel; near Lebanon). She says that “Europa was exceedingly fortunate (Gadelius); the Mistress of Zeus. Zeus had changed himself into a bull (Ephraim’s symbol) and she rode on his back while he took her to a place where she could bear him Glorious sons whose sceptres (the tribe of Judah) shall hold sway over all men on earth.” She also says that “Her sons were famous men, not only in this world but the next.” You see how mythology comes so close to the truth? The truth is there but it’s buried deep beneath the confusion; like trying to find a needle in a haystack.

    Look up what the stone is for…..PLEASE

    May you find your light
    Before Two Thousand Twelve

  1785. A fool always loses his temper, But a wise man holds it back. As such, the tongue of the wise makes knowledge acceptable, But the mouth of fools spouts folly.

    May you find your light

  1786. Dear All,
    Been here all along, listening, reading…….and thinking. Hope you are all well.
    Leah

  1787. Before sun up yesterday morning, a sizable blue / green streak could be seen in the North West sky as viewed by me in the West country, UK….it lasted only 2 – 3 seconds…..did anyone else see it ?

    A Rock / Asteroid 2009 FH, 60 feet wide, passed earth by only 50,000 miles, they say, early yesterday. The second close shave this month. Could it be that its Muller time.

  1788. Does a Foolish person ever feel that he is a Fool?? He might consider himself the wisest of all!
    How do you know whos a fool and whos a wise person?
    Isn’t it perspective at work?
    Gordy may think i’m a fool, but at the same time Becky might consider me wise!
    Who made the rules??
    Who are we to decide?
    If you think individually, every other person is a Fool.. If you think collectively , well..
    All things bright and beautiful,
    All creatures, great and small..
    All things Wise and Wonderful,
    The Lord God made them all…

  1789. good morning—

    amit and just a thought–i hear the doobie brothers singing that song again…

    “what a fool believes…
    no wise man has the power to reason away”

    where’d everybody go??? was it something we said???

  1790. How about this — you die in your
    sleep and your body is replaced by a programmed clone. You?d never
    know.
    |Oh, yeAh, MILLER TIME!!! I think its less filling & still tastes great 🙂 . OH,oH..Yoooooooooou mean Tomáš Müller, Ph.D. the man, the myth, the legend.
    YeAh,nO,, I mean Asteroid 2009 FH, Yeah I saw It. |At about 5:17 a.m. PDT (8:17 a.m. EDT, 12:17 UTC) at an altitude of about 49,000 miles (79,000 kilometers).
    Don Yeomans of the Near-Earth Object Office at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif said, This asteroid flyby will be a good viewing opportunity for both professional and amateur astronomers,” So I looked. But what about TU24 or if you have one of those telescopes I told you about you can check out…Active: April 16-25
    Maximum: April 22 11h UT (?o = 32°32 (but may vary)
    ZHR = 18 (can be variable – up to 90)
    Radiant: ? = 271° ? = +34°
    Radiant drift: see Table 6
    v? = 49 km/s; r = 2.1
    TFC: ? = 262° ? = +16° and ? = 282° ? = +19° (? > 10° S)
    The ?o = 32°32 timing given above is the ‘ideal’ maximum found in the most detailed examination of the Lyrids
    Leah, you surprise me all the time, I didn’t know you were into this stuff.
    Where The Fuck is Paul? It’s not that I miss him or anything.
    Umm, Yeah.

  1791. *Table 6, LOLOL i’m copying from a book. HA,HA U can’t see table 6. Anywho, the point where the backward projection of a meteor trajectory intersects the Celestial sphere, is the radiant drift, which is only a imaginary sphere of infinite radius with the earth at its center.. More generally, the point in the sky from which meteors of a specific shower seem to come. This point moves against the background of the stars as Earth passes through the meteor stream, a movement known as radiant drift. Get the drift??It is used for describing the positions and motions of stars and other objects. For these purposes, any astronomical object can be thought of as being located at the point where the line of sight from the earth through the object intersects the surface of the celestial sphere
    Can you truly think me MaDDer, If I told you were my P.O.V. will be.
    But hey don’t miss it, you heard it here first!!
    M113 Rules!!!! & all the boys drool.
    WooHeePPeeHerhaHahALlOlOlOloloLolooLo

  1792. M, can you please stop this, & get back to work. I do not understand you sometimes. But here, does this make you feel better?
    Maddness & I…watch March Madness every May. & listen to Nutcracker: Money, Madness & Murder by Eminem.
    Are you better now
    M?

  1793. Dear Leah,

    Thats quite surprising!!
    The close shaves are getting a bit too close for comfort!!
    Please tell me more about Prof Muller…
    I would surely look him up too…..

  1794. leah–so good to hear from you…
    no, i missed it…perhaps due to time zone and location…wonder what it was???

    i did not hear about the second “close call”, either…wonder what’s up with that??? there has been several news stories though about all the space debris…(MSNBC aired the shuttle launch live the other night…still get goosebumps watching that stuff…)anyway–that prompted a couple followup stories about the hazards of space debris to the ISS, and the shuttle docking…but nothing was even mentioned about “flying rocks” or close calls……we can monitor all the crap we’ve put into space, but we can’t see things coming at us…one of those things that make me go “HUMMMM!”.. .on the bright side–at least they’re looking UP…now if they’ll just recognize what they see…!@#$%

    these close calls do not instill fear or panic in me—wonder if that’s what they are so afraid of…what is disturbing-to me- is that nobody says anything until AFTER the fact…

    but, HEY!!! what are we gonna do??? is there any room left at all for rigorous honesty???

    please enjoy your day…take care and be well!

  1795. I apoligize Amit, I know that was abit out of character. It was an inside joke For M. I will keep things like that of this forum, from now on.

  1796. I did post earlier today but it hasn’t appeared. Basically what I said was that we’re always being hit by space rocks – some estimates put it at 10,000 tons per day. The next big one may be a city leveller or it may be an Extinction Level Event. Either way, welcome to the Inner Solar System Shooting Gallery.

  1797. Dear Gnostic joe,
    Hope you are all well. Nassim Haramein…..he’s real….worthwhile keeping track of his work.
    Be well,
    Leah

  1798. paul–a shooting gallery it is!!! i realize there is nothing we can do but sit back and watch, but a “head’s up” would be nice…

    gnostic joe–please hold that thought…my computer is not co-operating right now…will not stream youtube…at all…..will watch it as soon as i can…

    last night on the evening news, i caught the tailend of a clip about a volcano erupting somewhere in the ocean…did anyone see it.?..where did that happen??? …hoped for a rerun of the clip on the late news—but saw no more mention of it…just curious…

    nothing else to add…hope your day is blessed…take care and be well…

  1799. The new volcanic island is off the coast of Tonga. It won’t last for more than a few years as it’s made primarily of pumice and will be eroded by wave action.

  1800. The YouTube link is a clip showing a guy called Nassim Harramein who is saying something about Nibiru having come and gone on 17th February 2003!!!!! Yet more rubbish. Which rubbish to believe is now the dilemma isn’t it? Did Nibiru pass unnoticed or shall we quake in our boots until 2012?

  1801. If one calls Haramein rubbish, one has to automatically call Turok, and for that matter a slew of those at Fermilab, rubbish too. The discoveries of Fermilab in the last 30 days alone, throws veritable wrenches in the world of physics. Time to…..all change !

    Fringe today……Accepted tomorrow. Truth / Fact, is found by those that dare to think in ways the sheeple dare not…….because popularity and approval are more important to sheeple, than truth.

  1802. Who said 2012 is about Nibiru? Isn’t this a no- geomagnetic-reversal site? And why were you quakeing in your boots until 2012, anyway? You might need to get out more.
    But i’m sure getting tired of everything you don’t agree with being “Yet more rubbish”.
    The guy has computer analysis, graphs, charts & an audience that sounds in agreeance with him. The guys got a P.H.D.
    What is good enough proof for you “Basil”?
    Paul, would you tell G-D he wasn’t real, even if he was infront of you?
    I’m asking, cuz…..Man you must have the answers. Can you [please tell me what the f**k i’m doing here? Whats gonna happen in 2012. Gordy, Owin, Marge wheres your light brigade..shining the electric light of science to clear the darkness. tell me the answers, so I can stop wasting yours & my time.

    F**K your light
    Maddness

  1803. What will happen in 2012? Well I’ll have a birthday as will my brother, nephew and niece. The year will begin in January and end in December. The football and rugby seasons will start and end as usual. Many, many things will happen but not one of the the myriad events that occur will have been predicted by the maya.
    II question Haramein because he has said that Nibiru passed through the solar system in 2003. Funny how nobody else saw it isn’t it?

  1804. I don’t actually recall Neil Turok and the guys at Fermi Lab coming up with anything as bogus as errant planets/brown dwarves hurtling through the system.

  1805. If any of the ‘non-scientists’ would care to do even the smallest amount of reading about orbital mechanics they would see very clearly that a body the size of the proposed Planet X passing through the solar system would have effects that would annihilate all life on earth. Mercury, Venus, earth mars would either be hurled out of the system or into the sun. Go on Maddness, which would you prefer? You blithering idiot.

  1806. |Oh, so I take it, the rest of the world is just to stupid to get it. Well, I feel better knowing you two are around with the answers. “II question Haramein because, Funny how nobody else saw it isn’t it?” Nobodys seen your dick either, but I still think your a male. Because your name is Paul. |The rest of you can try to change these closed minds, till your blue in the face. |These Fuck-faces don’t get that its but not one of the the myriad events that occur will have been predicted, but all of them. Energy can’t be destroyed or created, E=mc2, A fallen angel must still be beautiful, & $ is a man made idea.
    stupid ppl……………………………….I need a break from you guys. guess you might need it from me too.

  1807. The connection was that both Haramein and Turok are each working on an uncannily similar Unified Theory.
    Those that follow, are involved in or are interested in such research, would know the value of such minds as Haramein, Turok, Lisi, those at Fermilab etc..

    Those that assume they are communicating with the uninformed, the lay, the unstudied, etc, outside of their own group…..should think again. This is a place where anyone can pretend to be anything at all.

  1808. Dual wave-like and Particle-like behavior of Matter and Radiation. Basic properties of Electromagnetic Radiation. Understanding of Electromagnetism, One of Einstein’s great insights was to realize that matter and energy are really different forms of the same thing. Matter can be turned into energy, and energy into matter.
    All we are is energy, encased in matter.
    The only way for ALL our energy to be released is for all our matter to be totally annhilated. This process involves the complete destruction of matter, and occurs only when that matter meets an equal amount of antimatter … (a substance composed of mass with a negative charge.) Antimatter does exist by the way. It is observable as single subatomic particles in radioactive decay, and has been created in the laboratory. But it is rather short-lived (!), since it annihilates itself and an equal quantity of ordinary matter as soon as it encounters anything.
    |Why are Maddness & myself talking about this & not why were you quakeing in your boots. Or why Mercury, Venus, earth mars weren’t hurled out of the system or into the sun. Thats for us to know & your gonna find out. J.K.

  1809. |I agree very much wth |Leah. & all things considering, only one group of ppl have been able to talk about a variety of subject. While the other group, haven’t found thier way off the high-horse.

  1810. Actually we have discussed a whole variety of things. It’s just that the alien thing and predictions of the ancients have either been disproved or do not have any proof e.g. god/gods, alien tamoering with human DNA
    As for anti-matter, yes we all know it exists and is used almost every day in particle accelerators.
    I still see the doubters of scientific method cannot or will not show the rest of the world how PlanetX managed to pass through the solar system unnoticed by not only the scientific community but the world media and population. Perhaps we all had our eyes closed at exactly the same time.

  1811. I’m sure that within the next 10-20 years, maybe sooner, we’ll have a Grand United Theory almost certainly arrived at through M-Theory. It’s all very exiting stuff. Quite a few physicists feel that a whole generation of young researchers have been wasting their collective time and efforts by devoting their energies to String Theory, M-Theory etc as evidence is sketchy at best. However the maths does seem to point in the direction of a solution. Testing it is a different matter at present though.

  1812. If anyone is interested there’s a programme on BBC Two this evening, part of the Horizon strand, on earthquakes entitled ‘Why We Can’t Predict Earthquakes?’ For those of you outside the United Kingdom you can get it on the BBc iPlayer facility. Should be well worth watching.

  1813. Hi Aizou,

    Good point. Often listen to a TV program afterf watching and listening.
    Be well,
    Leah

  1814. Listen with your eyes closed and you’ll hear one sound; listen and watch the speaker at the same time and you’ll hear another.

    There are 3n points in the plane no three of which lie on the same straight line. Is it possible to form n triangles with vertices at these points so that the triangles have no points in common?

    Assuming you have solved the problem, you can then see how many common points n shares. Now apply that to the subjects brought on to this thread.

    The triangles are separated from each other so that between any two it would be possible to draw a line such that the triangles would lie on opposite sides of the line. Assuming also we know to draw such lines for any pair of the triangles so that no point from the given set lies on any of the lines, then those lines would partition the plane into regions with the property that any such region either contains exactly three points from the given set or contains no points at all.

    Listen with your eyes closed and you’ll hear one sound; listen and watch the speaker at the same time and you’ll hear another

    This may seem trivial, but it is an important point.

    May you find your light
    Aizou

  1815. This information will be useful no matter how you arrived at your understanding of the Light.

    If you do not understand what is being said but want to, then listen to your inner voice or Higher Self and find the person to teach you.

    In the later case, you may not understand some of the instructions. Only do the instructions that you understand, otherwise, do nothing.

    There certainly is a lot of ‘doom-saying’ these days.We could easily collect ample evidence for doom-and-gloom — we can work ourselves into a panic of fear and scarcity — if we want to do that.

    But is that really where we want to invest our focus and energy? Is that really where we want to invest our power? Is that what we want to see more of?

    Your Light will simply exist around your body if your consciousness does not give it instructions. It is very much like a computer.

    You can own a computer, but if you do not put software into it, it is not of much value. And, of course, depending on what software you choose your computer will perform differently. The Light /Body is similar.

    As we go through our days, are we investing more in Light-and-Love or Gloom-and-Doom?

    It’s not an ‘airy fairy’ or ‘woo woo’ thing to contemplate, because we’re talking about real thoughts, real actions, and real effects on quality of life — our own, and that of others.

    We’ve all heard the proverbial wisdom sayings: What we resist, persists. When you fight what you DON’T want, you actually give it power and perpetuate the same. Where your thoughts are, your experience follows. Where your heart is, there will be your treasure. And so on.
    May you find your light
    Aizou

  1816. Good grief. Yet more quasi-religious/philosophical meanderings leading nowhere. Where do you guys get your stuff from? Fortune cookies? Christmas crackers? Crackers probably sums it up.
    What we resist persists??? My father’s generation resisted global forces of darkness and would be hugely offended if they thought it still persisted after all their sacrifice. Go away and talk to your priest. Fool!

  1817. Would be hugely offended if they thought it (global forces of darkness) still persisted.

    WHAT?

  1818. Your father’s generation resisted global forces of darkness and did it in vain. Christmas crackers? Where do you get your stuff from? Good grief. What a dumb-fuck

  1819. Nice Thought Aizou….

    Andy, your comments imply where the darkness actually resides…

  1820. Someone has pasted one of my past posts….4.38am 26th March….to look like its me.
    It also needs to be said that some prophecy is also knowlege of future plans.
    Be well,
    Leah

  1821. The Mayan carvings also stated that “After 2012 there would be many choices”. I personally have not yet come accross any Mayan translation that categorically stated “The end of the World”. Changes and choices ….yes….an end…..no.

  1822. aizou–thank you for the inspiration…

    andy, darkness does persist…as evident in your post…so why would YOU let HIS fight be in vain? did he teach you nothing? did he not “shed some light” on you??@#$$%

    no worries, leah–your thoughts are unique…imitation is the greatest form of flattery…

    hope you ALL are well…best wishes to you always…

  1823. I dont think scientists tell us everything they know.
    Perhaps global, natural cataclism is better option for population control then wars.

  1824. From Andy: what I meant was they went up against the forces of nazism, totalitarianism communism etc. THEY were the darkness and they were beaten back. I was NOT refering to the green lizards, multi-tentacled things and other ‘dark forces’ that lurk waiting to pounce on the likes of AMIT/PNG and the others who like them who cower in the gloom and see conspiracies
    everywhere they look, see governments and “the authorities” keeping vital information from them. Has it ever occurred toyou that maybe the government are protecting you by not releasing everything they know? It’s quite obvious that your minds are so fragile that anything out of the ordinary would fry them. You sorry bunch of idiots.

  1825. You people really are shockers. A guy makes a comment about a
    previous generation’s sacrifice and all you can do is scoff. You have plumbed new depths of crassness and stupidity. If that is the level of your thinking I could feel so sorry for you if I had the time. Your collective lack of understanding shows that you are the new forces of darkness and makes it so much easier to stay here and show you up instead of packing in this continuing charade.

  1826. PNG: Man has bungled and botched at every turn?! It’s your sort of pessimism and half arsed philosophy that holds us back. You just love to see problems everywhere and hanker for a ‘golden age-sometime-in-the-past’ which of course never existed. You and your unthinking horde think that the ancients had all the answers and that if we weak pathetic humans just stopped destroying the world [ha!] and bowed down in front of you and followed your particular brand of fascism we would suddenly find ourselves back in the garden of eden. I thought all you hippies had disappeared in a cloud of MJ smoke. You are a real waste of protoplasm. You’re a nasty, self-deluding little man.
    Where’s your flimsy little piece of evidence to support ANY of your and your followers stupid ideas? Come on show us the prove for nibiru/alien intervention. You stupid, stupid @%^&!)p*

  1827. |My pessimism and half arsed philosophy that holds us back? You really are crackers my friend.
    1) ancients had all the answers, | have never said that.
    2)I love to see problems everywhere and hanker for a ‘golden age-sometime-in-the-past’. |That statement just contradicts itself.
    3) My”horde think that the ancients had all the answers” |Not true, But whats the problem with anicents. I talk about G-D alot, but not history.
    4) You’re a nasty, self-deluding little man.
    Wrong again, i’m a lady.
    5) Come on show us the prove for nibiru/alien intervention. You stupid, stupid @%^&!). Again get your head out your ass, read my words, & understand what is being told to you.
    Where’s your flimsy little piece of evidence to support ANY of your and your followers stupid ideas? Oh, but Maddness says, your proberly reading your own words outloud as you type.
    Cuz, your kind just likes to hear themseleves talk.
    Give marge a kiss.

  1828. Man, woman or beast you are still a little person. Small-minded and a virtual illiterate as well. “your proberly….”. I take it you mean, “you’re probably…..” and “themseleves…” Perhaps you should talk as YOU type. But then perhaps you’re unable to do two things at the same time. I have yet to read anything of substance from you but as you appear to be a religious zealot it is not surprising.

  1829. Damn! You beat me to the punch there Paul. These jerks are a real drain on one’s vitality. Their reliance on dogma and ancient writings is a best strange and at worst frightening. However, keep on guard and be alert. Luckily people such as the above gallahs are a very small minority and usually keep themselves to themselves in a loft or basement out of sight of the general public. They are only able to communicate with the outside world via the net as they’d be laughed off the street/podium/stage etc if they ever dared to venture into the light and spout their usual bullshit theories and demented ideas. Let’s see what they’ve got. I suspect nothing but at least it’s more fun for my faculty notice board. People have been wondering where the ‘weirdos’ have gone lately.

  1830. Awww, look at the babies cry…Did PnG strike a nerve? It’s okay if your scared, we won’t tell.
    Just a long as your still not wetting the bed.
    “Damn! You beat me to the punch there Paul”, whata shame, your all each other has.

  1831. |Prehaps, the four of you need to proof read, before you post.
    Or better yet, think before you talk.
    Scientists Fight Ignorance with Patronage.
    So even if they think us ignorant,
    I see no Scientists posting here.
    |With this kind of dialogue,how are both sides able to learn something positive about each other?
    Is that not should occur, to try to unravel, what if any mystery. That will happen on 12/21/12?
    |None here knows the answers, & you will lie, if you say, you are unafraid.
    Everyone is afarid of things not under their control.
    If you do not think I can teach you anything. I challenge you to prove this wrong. You will not be able to, because it is a fact.
    Pluto’s orbit crosses Neptune, but they’ll never collide.
    You didn’t know that til now. I can prove it.
    But, please refrain from thinking you are speaking to some Bonnet. |This is not a game!
    |Time is not our friend, so plz don’t act Chavy |& give in to maddness. By no means are we here to play the Crooked cross, or get any ill gains.
    We are here to fan the flames of the campfire.
    & help it grow bright.
    |May you find your light
    Aizou

  1832. Oh Gordy…….. Damn!!! how could Paul do it!!!! Deny you a chance to paas some derogatory remarks!!!!! Not Good !!! Not Good at all!!!!

    Paul, Gordy has the exclusive right to levy insults here, please refrain from trespassing his territory!!!

  1833. Andy,

    You are such a Dim Wit that you misinterpreted Aizou’s words and produced an absolutely unrelated example!!

    And you are more of a Fool if you trust your government so much!!!
    There is no such thing as Government… there are only Politicians and they have only their own interests in mind!

    Another question… Why are you guys so uneasy with Philosophy and Spirituality? So quick to fly off your handles as soon as someone says “Heart” or “Soul” !!!!! Are you sure that you are not Androids?? As far as i can see, your mind works only on a single track! And you keep spewing only whats been fed by your inventors!!

  1834. Paul,

    You surely did a Mount Vesuvius above!! But that eruption was not justified..
    You dont have time to feel sorry for us, but you do have lots of time to come up with such an exhaustive hate speech!
    Your time, your convenience… When confornted with your so called Scientific Facts, your days are suddenly reduced to 12 Hours only! And whenever you get a chnace to deride someone, they swell to 48 Hours!!

    New Forces of Darkness?? Well Well….. Look into the mirror…..

  1835. Andy,Paul,& Gordy….HaHa HeHe, do you guys sing & play your own instruments.
    No, wait…JK, well the band must not be in today. Funny a question was asked, in their feild of study. And “surprise” no reply.
    Just a bunch of cricket noise coming from the hole in their face.
    So were any of you aware that, Pluto’s orbit crosses Neptune, but they’ll never collide?
    The orbit of Pluto is highly inclined and strikingly different from the orbits of the other planets thats why.
    Look it up…..& then look up & you’ll understand more.

  1836. Unfortunately I have a career to attend to and can’t always get to responds to the stuff that gets posted here – good questions as from Amit and Leah, or the garbage sent in by Maddness/PNG/JAT/Gnostic Joe.

  1837. I have a career to attend to garbage blah blah.and can’t always wipe my own ass. |& get to responds to the stuff that gets posted here bulls**t, bulls**t. garbage sent in by Maddness/PNG/JAT/Gnostic Joe. Well Just A Thought. I am honored to call you one of us. Even though they stole Leah & Amit.
    & just ignorne Becks, R-man & Margaret. Yeah i said it.

    Peace 🙂 ;(

  1838. A blast from the past…….

    Amit the Man; Says

    Paul, Andy,Gordy, Owin you commented about Divine Intervention and proofs, rather “Extraordinary Evidences”. So lets give you some evidence.

    Extraordinary Evidence No. 1 – Ancient Pyramids.

    There is significant proof to date the Pyramids to around 11,000 BCE for their construction. Certainly, with our technology of today we could build such monuments to the precision of these great structures – but… what about back in 11,000 BCE? The Humans of the Bible were farmers and Shepard’s. The technology didn’t exist to create such structures. Now, look at the Maya and their Calendar. Their understanding of astronomy and astrology far exceeded their ability to understand the stars yet they provided us with a calendar, which has been exacting. The examples of technology exist through out our history yet scholars often refuse to consider this when putting together their thesis or journals. It isn’t mainstream science, thus it would bring way too much attention and critique and essentially ruin their career.
    In the Sumerian Epic, the story of Creation and the Garden of Eden are shared. The Great Flood is also a favorite written in the Epic. These stories aren’t changed all that much when represented in the Bible – however, they are manipulated. The Sumerian Epic tell of the Anunnaki; a race of beings from Nibiru who created Humans by taking the indigenous beings on Earth and splicing their own DNA with that of the Aliens. The Anunnaki were greatly advanced beings and created the great monuments found on the Earth; Moon; Mars and other solid planets/moons within our corner of the Universe.
    The purpose for creating Humans is also written in the Epic. Humans were created to be servants of the gods. Many would have called the early humans, slaves. We were used to mine precious minerals such as gold. Still to this day, gold is considered a highly sought after mineral. Researching the Sumerian Epic will also tell you reasons for this unique status of gold.

    And since you seem to be a supporter of the Theory of Evolution, I have some evidence against that as well.

    Extraordinary Evidence No. 2 – DNA.

    The number of ways that any group of N objects can be arranged is:
    N x (N-1) x (N-2) x . . . x 1
    Thus, 4 objects can be arranged in 24 ways (i.e., 4 x 3 x 2 x 1)
    and 5 objects can be arranged in 120 ways (i.e., 5 x 4 x 3 x 2 x 1)
    We’re told that the earth was formed 4,600,000,000 years ago and the universe began 15,000,000,000 years ago. These seems like pretty big numbers, and pretty long periods of time during which anything could have happened.
    When viewed from the perspective of probabilities, however, it’s just a flash in the pan. The number of ways a deck of just 52 cards can be arranged is about:
    80,658,175,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
    000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
    That’s 80 million trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion
    DNA has over 3 billion base pairs of 4 separate chemicals. Can you imagine what odds must be involved in sequencing them into perfect order in a mere 4.5 billion years through chance and adaptation alone!
    Life, however, is not just a random draw from a deck of chemical cards, but a precisely assembled house of cards built from specific combinations of components.

    Extraordinary Evidence No. 3 – The Eye –

    Evolution theory has never adequately explained how organs of extreme design and perfection could “evolve”
    Even Darwin recognized the challenge it posed to his theory in the chapter entitled “Difficulties of the Theory” in his book “The Origin of Species”:
    “To suppose that the eye, with all its inimitable contrivances for adjusting the focus to different distances, for admitting different amounts of light, and for the correction of spherical and chromatic aberration, could have been formed by natural selection, seems, I freely confess, absurd in the highest degree.” Charles Darwin, 1859
    If you’re viewing this page with a 1024×768 resolution monitor, you’re seeing 786,432 pixels of light. A high speed Internet connection typically delivers web content at around 500,000 bytes of information per second. In comparison, your eye sees about 125,000,000 pixels of light through five distinct kinds of neurons, processing about 10,000,000 point images per second. Your eye is remarkably efficient, able to produce a signal with only one photon.
    How do we realistically explain by chance and adaptation the design and manufacture of an organ that far surpasses the technology of cameras and computers which have taken the collective efforts of mankind centuries to develop?

    Extraordinary Evidence No. 4 – Phi (Golden Proportion)
    The Fibonacci number, phi, is more than a mathematical curiosity. It is one of the most amazing and pervasive numbers known to man. This, above all numbers, would be a perfect sign to tell us that creation is not just the result of random processes

    Fibonacci, Phi and Spirals in Nature:
    If you sum the squares of any series of Fibonacci numbers, they will equal the last Fibonacci number used in the series times the next Fibonacci number. This property results in the Fibonacci spiral seen in everything from sea shells to galaxies
    DNA
    The DNA molecule, the program for all life, is based on the golden section. It measures 34 angstroms long by 21 angstroms wide for each full cycle of its double helix spiral.
    34 and 21, of course, are numbers in the Fibonacci series and their ratio, 1.6190476 closely approximates phi, 1.6180339.
    The Solar System
    The average of the mean orbital distances of each successive planet expressed in relation to the one before it approximates phi.

    Plants
    Plants illustrate the Fibonacci series in the numbers and arrangements of petals, leaves, sections and seeds.
    Many plants produce new petals in quantities that are based on Fibonacci numbers.
    Each successive level of branches is often based on a progression through the Fibonacci series.
    Extraordinary Evidence No. 5 – Irreducible Complexity
    We’re told that life evolved from the very simple to the highly complex, which would make sense if it were true.
    The truth, however, is that even the simplest of life forms are highly sophisticated pieces of biological machinery.
    Every living cell contains DNA, the program which describes every aspect of the organism’s physical design and life functions, including:
    ingestion
    digestion
    conversion to energy
    excretion of waste respiration
    reproduction
    circulation
    growth
    locomotion
    regulation
    response to stimuli
    A cell would not really be “alive” or survive unless all life functions became operable at once, so how did even a “simple” single-celled organism “evolve”?
    We’re told by scientists and academicians that finding or creating a simple molecule of amino acid is evidence of “life,” yet DNA of even a simple E. coli bacteria cell contains 4.6 million base pairs, or 9.2 million bits of information.
    Does evolution theory offer any evidence or even a truly plausible explanation as to how even a single bacteria cell came into being?

    Right now, this has to be the end of my list of evidences. The list is endless, but unfortunately time is not, and there is only so much of it to accomplish a lot during a work day. So i wll wind up here and save the rest for later.
    So, are these evidences enough for you?? You might say that I have just argued against Evolution. But Divine Intervention and Alien Intervention are one and the same thing. So when Divine Intervention is proved, it points to the Anunnaki. And the presence of Anunnaki on Earth proves the reliability of the information encoded in the Ancient Monuments and Artifacts (Including Mayan Calendar) …..

    Stupid fuck faces( I added that)
    Maddness

  1839. M said; “Well Just A Thought. I am honored to call you one of us”
    I say,
    The honor is mine.

    To feel the need to TRY and walk on another says so much about a “person” and what their lives must be like, I do not envy them.

    Still no answer as to how they know me (or any of us) so well that they can proclaim who, what or, how I am. (we are.)

  1840. Maddness says: There is significant proof to date the Pyramids to around 11,000 BCE for their construction.
    Sorry boy but humans were still deep in the Palaeolithic and lived lives as hunter-gathers. The Ice Age still had a grip on the northern hemisphere and there was no hint of anything resembling a civilisation and wouldn’t be for at least another 6,000 thousand years or so. I think you’ve been paying too much attention to that fraudster Hancock.
    BTW, everyone in the astronomical community knew about Pluto crossing Neptune’s orbit not long after Pluto itself was discovered. It’s nothing new, revelatory, shocking – just old news.

  1841. 11,000 BCE. Just so ya know, The Egyptians & Mayans were not the only pyramid builders There are many pyramids around the world, many of which are still un explored The Chinese have pyramids and The largest known pyramid is in China, but The government keep them secret. YOur stupid.
    You are stupid, you’re stupid. Ye ole stupid.
    Stuipd is as stupid does, I guess.
    & at the very top. I wrote I was plagurizm, from Amit. Fuck face.
    You are your crew don’t get it. |How was it that many ancient sites were built with precise cut stone blocks, which fit so perfectly together they didn’t need cement?, most of which would withstand earthquakes.? Even today!!!! Some of these stone blocks were connected with metal clamps. Oh but you know how they got those right paul? Modern archeologists have their “theories” of how these so called primitive people moved these large stones into place but these explanations do not fit. Now aint that a kick in the ass. I guess their waiting on Paul & Andys final thoughts. Different ancient cultures tell stories of how The stones were floated or flew in The air It is obvious that stone megaliths, like those of stonehenge were not moved by conventional methods. The ancient people had knowledge and also great understanding of sound vibration.
    What ya think of that?
    Its Maddnesss, right?

  1842. Just a thought, you humble us. It is good to know, that from an outside view. We both stand against ignorance, For the ignorant group us together.

  1843. ZHey, |Paul.Your not at work? You got yourself a computer. |Congratz, They must’ve increased your wages, or are you borrwing a friends? Anyway glad to see you on a saturday. Let the good times ROLL!!!!!

  1844. I just wish to add that, there are many ancient pyramids in Greece, some of which date before those found in Egypt.
    The Pyramid at Hellicon dates around 2720 B.C.E. |There are also 50 black pyramids in the area of the Meroite Kingdom. |Which was between 592bc-350ad. The meroites worshiped the same gods as the Egyptians.
    |As well as, pyramids in the USA. Although the Americans don’t want to admit they are pyramids and call them mounds.
    Google it or call it Maddness. It does not stop the Truth.
    |Just needed to add that, not looking for a response. Just hoping that still.

    You find your light
    Gj

  1845. One of the greatest discoveries in the history of archaeology was made last summer, off Japan There, spread over an amazing 311 miles on the ocean floor, are the well-preserved remains of an ancient city. Or at the very least, a number of closely related sites.

    In the waters around Okinawa and beyond to the small island of Yonaguni, divers located eight separate locations beginning in March 1995. That first sighting was equivocal – a provocative, squared structure, so encrusted with coral that its manmade identity was uncertain. Then, as recently as the summer of 1996, a sports diver accidentally discovered a huge, angular platform about 40 feet below the surface, off the southwestern shore of Okinawa. The feature’s artificial provenance was beyond question. Widening their search, teams of more divers found another, different monument nearby. Then another, and another. They beheld long streets, grand boulevards, majestic staircases, magnificent archways, enormous blocks of perfectly cut and fitted stone – all harmoniously welded together in a linear architecture unlike anything they had ever seen before.

    In the following weeks and months, Japan’s archaeological community joined the feeding-frenzy of discovery. Trained professionals formed a healthy alliance with the enthusiasts who first made the find. In a progressive spirit of mutual respect an working alliance, academics and amateurs joined forces to set an example of cooperation for the rest of the world. Their common cause soon bore rich fruit. In september, not far from the shore of the island of Yonaguni, more then 300 airline miles south from Okinawa, they found a gigantic, pyramidal structure in 100 feet of water. In what appeared to be a ceremonial center of broad promenades and flanking pylons, the gargantuan building measures 240 feet long.

    Exceptionally clear sub-surface clarity, with 100 foot visibility a common factor, allowed for thorough photographic documentation, both still photography and video. These images provided the basis of japan’s leading headlines for more than a year. Yet, not a word about the Okinawa discovery reached the US public, until the magazine, “Ancient American” broke the news last spring. Since that scoop, only the CNN network televised a report about Japan’s underwater city. Nothing about it has been mentioned in any of the nation’s other archaeology publications, not even in any of our daily newspapers. One would imagine that such a mind-boggling find would be the most exciting piece of news an archaeologist could possibly hope to learn. Even so, outside of the “Ancient American” and CNN’s single report, the pall of silence covering all the facts about Okinawa’s structures screens them from view more effectively then their location at the bottom of the sea. Why? How can this appalling neglect persist in the face of a discovery of such unparalleled magnitude? At the risk of accusations of paranoia, one might conclude that a real conspiracy of managed information dominates America’s well-springs of public knowledge.

    Frank Joseph – “Ancient American”

    .

    Divers Find World’s Oldest Building

    by Trushar Barot

    A STRUCTURE thought to be the world’s oldest building, nearly twice the age of the great pyramids of Egypt, has been discovered. The rectangular stone ziggurat under the sea off the coast of Japan could be the first evidence of a previously unknown Stone Age civilisation, say archeologists.

    The monument is 600ft wide and 90ft high and has been dated to at least 8000BC. The oldest pyramid in Egypt, the Step Pyramid at Saqqara, was constructed more than 5,000 years later.

    The structure off Yonaguni, a small island southwest of Okinawa, was first discovered 75ft underwater by scuba divers 10 years ago and locals believed it was a natural phenomenon.

    Professor Masaki Kimura, a geologist at Ryukyu University in Okinawa, was the first scientist to investigate the site and has concluded that the mysterious five-layer structure was man-made. “The object has not been manufactured by nature. If that had been the case, one would expect debris from erosion to have collected around the site, but there are no rock fragments there,” he said.

    The discovery of what appears to be a road surrounding the building was further evidence that the structure was made by humans, he added.

    Robert Schoch, professor of geology at Boston University, dived at the site last month. “It basically looks like a series of huge steps, each about a metre high. Essentially, it’s a cliff face like the side of a stepped pyramid. It’s a very interesting structure,” he said. “It’s possible that natural water erosion combined with the process of cracked rocks splitting created such a structure, but I haven’t come across such processes creating a structure as sharp as this.”

    Further evidence that the structure is the work of humans came with the discovery of smaller underwater stone mounds nearby. Like the main building, these mini-ziggurats are made of stepped slabs and are about 10m wide and 2m high.

    Kimura said it was too early to know who built the monument or its purpose. “The structure could be an ancient religious shrine, possibly celebrating an ancient deity resembling the god Nirai-Kanai, whom locals say gave happiness to the people of Okinawa from beyond the sea. This could be evidence of a new culture as there are no records of a people intelligent enough to have built such a monument 10,000 years ago,” he said.

    “This could only have been done by a people with a high degree of technology, probably coming from the Asian continent, where the oldest civilisations originate. There would have to have been some sort of machinery involved to have created such a huge structure.”

    Teruaki Ishii, professor of geology at Tokyo University, said the structure dated back to at least 8000BC when the land on which it was constructed was submerged at the end of the last ice age. “I hope this site is artificial as it would be very exciting. But at this time I feel it is too early to say. I think the structure could be natural, but part of it may have been made,” he said.

    The first signs of civilisation in Japan are traced to the Neolithic period around 9000BC. The people at this time lived as hunters and food- gatherers. There is nothing in the archeological record to suggest the presence of a culture advanced enough to have built a structure like the ziggurat.

    British archeologists are, however, cautiously enthusiastic about the discovery which will be featured this summer in a Channel 4 documentary.

    Jim Mower, an archeologist at University College London, said: “If it is confirmed that the site is as old as 10,000 years and is man-made, then this is going to change an awful lot of the previous thinking on southeast Asian history. It would put the people who made the monument on a par with the ancient civilisation of Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley.”

  1846. Guilty as charged, Maddness, we can always pont out each others work. May I ask? Why are “you” still here? |Why all the hush-hush?
    |I say tell them” if they are so smart” to
    maybe, see what the dates of construction you can come up with. On all these seperate pyramids. It might tell something they missed. |Use calculus for your equations.
    |Tell me about the australian pyramids? Or the Gaius Cestius’ pyramid, in Rome, nearly perfectly preserved, entirerely covered with white marble, although having a core of bricks. However, there are still many more ancient pyramids. The most ancient, as far as we know, is located in Sardinia, in the shape of a stepped pyramid, now called “Monte d’Accodi”, very similar in shape and structure to the pyramids located in the canaries islands. |I don’t care if I have said to much. |I care less for those who do not understand the message. Debauch has made it clear what is to be expected. |I will end this with the fact that happens to be that, I live just a few Km from some recently discovered pyramids resembling the Orion belt, located in the town of Montevecchia, north of Milan. They were first identified through satellite imagery, with an estimated height of 150 meters, they are now undergoing excavation, after that ground radar identified possible cavities or chambers under at least one of them. Some granite slabs of the outside casing, now in a very poor state, due to the vegetation outgrow, have been recently recovered. Similar structures are not rare at all in northern Italy, although their age is still unclear, variously identified as burial mounds or some kind of bronze age observatories, although no tombs have ever been found in any of them, yet.
    Recently uncovered casing stones of pyramid in Montevecchia. It’s interesting to underline two of the pyramids are partly covered with mud and peebles left by glaciers, allegedly during the last ice age.
    |Put that in your pipe |& smoke it.

    May you find your light
    Aizou

  1847. |Well for all you brits…..I repeat again. all the info posted above will be the subject of British archeologists. |Who are however, cautiously enthusiastic about the discovery |& will be featured this summer in a Channel 4 documentary. |June or July- don’t make plans to do anything else. I’ll get the pop-corn & K-Y.
    Cuz somebodys gonna enjoy the show
    while someone else gets F**ked.
    LOLOLOLLLLOLLLOOLOLOLOLOLoL

  1848. Let’s keep an open mind to possibilities.

    As noted, the Mayan calendar tracks the Venus cycle.

    The Venus’ retrograde cycle of approx 1 1/2 years takes on interesting significance when viewed over a longer period of time.

    For example, over an 8 year period Venus stations retrograde 5 times. Plot those 5 points on a circle and connect the dots in the same retrograde and a Star Pentagram is created. The Pentagram is a pagan symbol whose significance or importance was buried in the Inquisition. What it means in today’s terms is open to debate. Further, at the conclusion of the 8 year cycle, Venus returns to practically the same starting point, plus 1 degree. Accelerate and put into motion this phenomena over a few thousand years, using an astronomy program such as Starry Night Pro, and a very interesting spiraling of the pentagram occurs. Of course, none of this necessarily presages a doomsday scenario, however, other historical factors ought to be noted.

    The larger Venus cycle relative to its solar transits covers some 243 years. The 2012 transit represents the last or 5th transit of that long cycle. Interesting to me it occurs in the same year as the end (or what is perceived as the “end) of the Mayan Calendar. 243 years prior to 2008 takes us back to the beginnings of the American and Industrial revolutions. Given the rapid changes we see occurring today in the world of finance, industry and social structures, it is within the realm of possibility that 2012 may signal the end of a long (and rather earth-abusive) cycle of industry and government.

    What lies beyond 2012 is pure speculation (the doomsday perspective is a possibly (isn’t anything in this random filled Universe?); nonetheless, too much of a stretch for me). However, if history is a metaphorical guide, a revolutionary time of social and business shifts may be in the offing. Today’s rapid, intense events across the globe in the areas of government and industry may be the early signs of such a shift.

  1849. BTW, Aizou. Amazing. You made have to re-look at some of the infomation In have gathered. When you say to use calculus for the dates of construction, on all the seperate pyramids. Makes my mouth water on what your saying I may find.
    If I get stuck finding certain info, my I rely on asking you for a hint, clue. I wish to research on my own. For knowledge is power. And in this world, there are not many to be trusted anymore.
    Funny, I trusted B.Obama not to send more troops to Iraq. So he sent them to Afaganstan.
    I like what i’ve read here especially from Paul, maddness, Amit & Rico. The four of you are the personification of what is right & wrong in the world.
    Now imagine if you found something to agree on. What positive “energy” could be created. From Just the Thought. Thank you for allowing me to share my thoughts.
    An open mind

  1850. From what i’ve read. All of you need help. First proffesional help, then spirtual help.
    Then you need to get ready for the pole shift.

  1851. BTW |Paul, not everyone in the astronomical community knew about Pluto crossing Neptune’s. I wanted tp call you out, thats why we chose something you can discreidt yourself over. If Pluto was found in 1930 by Clyde Tombaugh, an astronomer looking for “Planet X”. ||How can you claim there was a telescope that could record Pluto crossing Neptune? Not in 1930.
    |As a matter of fact, Percival Lowell started the search for the unknown object from the Lowell Observatory in Arizona in 1905 after noticing differences in the calculated positions and the observed positions of the planets. |Not a crossing of paths, they would of thought pluto was moon, if the had witnessed that.
    |And is the main reason that the small size of the planet has been the discussion of how to define a planet and if Pluto should be called a planet. I have to explain this to so called scientist?
    |I mean after all, the planet Neptune had been discovered in 1846 by examining irregularities in the orbit of Uranus. Astronomers reasoned that the mystery planet’s apparent gravitational influence on Uranus and Neptune could be used to calculate where in the sky it should be found.
    |Not some high powered telescope that, showed Pluto crossing Neptune’s orbit not long after Pluto itself was discovered. It’s nothing new, revelatory, shocking – just old news.
    |Are your eyes brown, cuz Paul. Your full of shit. As it turns out, Lowell’s calculations were not so much wrong as based on flawed data about the perturbations of Uranus’ orbit. Despite that, one of the two locations predicted by Lowell’s calculation (the favored one, in fact) happened to be right where Pluto was found.
    |I have facts, |What do you and your friends have? rabbit and pork, rabbit and pork. How do I put up with you prats. Please sod off, before you make more of an wanker of yourself, than you already have.

  1852. Maddness. You dolt. Lowell and the astronomical community called it planet X because the ‘X’ refers to an unknown! The movements of both Uranus and Neptune didn’t follow the expected paths so it was assumed that there was another body out in the system beyond them. What an idiot you are. LMAO. I love it when you get everything so wrong. Just go and read a few books on the history of astronomy. Don’t mess with the experts you’ll only show yourself up. Oh I forgot. you already have.

  1853. Wow. PNG If you’re humbled by the wild ramblings of JAT you’re even more of a fuckwit than I thought.
    Nice one Paul on burying both PNG and that galloping lizard Maddness. Unfortunately the undead don’t stay buried. We’ll just have to keep trying. What do you suggest? We’ve tried logic, facts, ridicule etc but these people are beyond the reach of logic and facts and they have such a high regard for their stupidity that ridiculing them runs like water off a duck’s back.
    Perhaps we ought to stop feeding these trolls, starve them the oxygen of publicity and they’ll wither and die off. Or start their own little site where they can indulge in mutual ego masturbation.

  1854. |Wow, you are dumb-asses. Wikipedia, you can’t find my ref. so easy. |Unlike you I do read. & its still not answering how you thought Pluto & Neptune was something astrona…Wait a sec. You don’t know what your talking about, do you? LOLOLOLMAO,
    Priceless. You don’t answer questions, try to make up answers. And really are just full of s**t.
    LOLOLOLOLOLOLMAO, Here try this on 😉

  1855. For some gnostics and early Christian sects, the serpent of Genesis was viewed not as the villiain of the book, but as the hero. It was he, after all, who brought divine wisdom to man. God had told Adam not to eat the fruit from the Tree of Knowledge, for if he did he “would surely die.” But Adam and Eve did eat the fruit, and they didn’t die. In other words, God was wrong and the serpent was right. The serpent told the truth, and God had lied. Certain Gnostics and Christians thought that this was surely the intended subtext of Genesis. Evidence that they may have been correct can be seen in what amounts to an Aramaic pun. In this now-dead language, used at the time of Christ, the words for “serpent” and “to instruct” are nearly identical. The serpent had instructed Eve to eat of the Tree of Life, and in following his advice, she gained wisdom. Viewed in this light, how could the serpent not be seen as the hero of Genesis?

    |Enough for you, can you handle the truth?

  1856. Owain and Gordy, if you want to dictate who can participate on a blog…….start your own which can be an exclusive one for your elite group……..membership only. You can vet people first…..if you don’t agree with their opinions, beliefs or way in which they think, you can refuse them access to your blog.

    You could call it “THE CLONE ZONE”.

    You guys don’t seem to understand that you are in charge of “NOTHING” on a blog like this one, which is open to “ALL”.

  1857. Hell no!. The last thing we need is more lunatics like OilsMastery and Anaconda hijacking another thread.

  1858. We can add Leah to the group as well. It’s probably just as well they stay here where they can do no harm. Their influence is negligible to zero here on the net. If they tried to spread their demented, deluded bullshit in the ‘real’ world they wouldn’t get an audience. Well an audience of themselves. Let them roam over these sites I say. The wider they spread themselves the more people can debunk and rubbish their crap. This site is at a dead end. Can you actually believe the bollocks from PNG/JAT and the new dick-head aizou?? I joined this to learn and try to understand a bit about 2012 and astronomy and all I get is quasi religious philosophical clap-trap. Gnostic schmostic.
    I’m gonna read some proper science books.

  1859. We also had come to think that this site was for astronomy as well as astrology.But not limited to including psychology, philosophy, the sciences, arts, politics.Time and again, they had offered to hear what you had as proof, & we got nothing. There have been discussions that include the daily application of astrology,astronomy and psychology to life events, |On this site they have discussed political, scientific, social, and personal. Topics may include the Stock Market, political events, i’ve read about family dynamics and other relationships. They have spoken about finances, career directions, sexuality, religious belief and spiritual attitudes. You can almost say, they have become a family. That is what is the connection. what brought together so many minds, in search of what 2012 meant. To discover, at least so far, what it doesnt mean. The open mind, the humble soul. The willingness to say, maybe I didn;t know. But now I wish to. Do you understand the connections between astrology and astronomy? That they are considered similar? & if you understand why. You wuld be surprised to know they both offer insight into childhood experience, physical and emotional cycles, attitudes toward finances, love, and career choices, among other topics. The choice is yours to believe in what you wish. No gun is aimed at your head here.It is you who must look within your self, & understand if you even have the capacity for personal and collective growth. And it is the transformation through these insights and understandings, that what you can gain from these fields. This is what is offered here. If you wish, you are welcomed to explore it with us,in an intense and friendly forum. The likes of which you may never find again. That is why, it is our honor to know all of you. The open & closed minded.
    transformation, if that is what 2012 is about. Then as you can see, it has already begun.
    May you find your light.

  1860. My mother, punched your mother, right in the nose. What color was the blood?
    RED
    R-E-D. spells red & Out you may go.

  1861. Dear Maddness,

    Dont worry! They did not steal anyone….
    I’ll always be happy to be called a part of “Our” group…. The Campfire… no matter whatever vile names they call us!
    Regarding Paul, its a sort of a truce that we are holding with him as sometime we have found some facts which we can agree upon..
    But the others… i.e all those Gordys , Kevins and Andys…. Well, what can be said about them! They dont have anything to contribute! have you ever noticed how they keep their traps shut whenever a discussion is going on – i.e. Q&A with Paul…. But whenever there is any argument/confrontation, they spring up like wild mushrooms!!! Because no intellect is required to indulge in the foul mouthed blatherings that they have got to offer….
    Gordy says “Mutual; Ego masturbation” … At least our Egos are small enough for that! Yours’ is too large that it would require Dinosaurs to satisfy it!!
    And look what Andy – The Smartass hasgot to say – “We can add Leah to the group as well. It’s probably just as well they stay here where they can do no harm. Their influence is negligible to zero here on the net.”
    Wow!! Look at te audacity! I feel like laughing on him! Discussing people as if they are “subjects” of an experiment!! “Just as well they stay here”… Mr. Andy, who the hell are you to discuss and decide our whereabouts??? And if our influence is Zero, how did you get attracted to our suff?? Are you so fuckin dumb that you got attracted to a Zero Influnece group??
    I say get back to your “Science” books by all means, and stay there for good!

  1862. Wow! How did i miss this Gem from Kevin??

    Kevin Says:
    March 28th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
    From what i’ve read. All of you need help. First proffesional help, then spirtual help.
    Then you need to get ready for the pole shift.

    Well, thanks for the advice Kevin.. I have one for you too, and its much much simpler –

    “MIND YOUR OWN BLOODY BUSINESS!”
    If you have one……….

  1863. Instead of making conclusions of how world is going to end, they should make conclusions of how is earth going to be saved.

  1864. To Aizou/GJ/debauch/PNG/madness and the rest of the multi-headed hydra that you no doubt are.
    By all means widen the discussion on astronomy to include philosophy, psychology etc but discuss not pontificate. Little or nothing I’ve read under your Gnostic joe tag has sought to talk about the philosophy or psychology of astronomy in particular or science in general. We have been subjected to a series of homilies and diatribes purporting to show the wisdom of the gnostics and religious thinkers. All you have succeeding in doing is clogging up the site with out-of-context, virtually meaningless pseudo-intellectual babble.
    And as for talking about the daily application of astrology to life events well it leaves one almost speechless. Have you ANY idea what modern astrology says it offers? Would you like to explain how planets many hundreds of thousands of miles away can influence the events in our lives? Even more so with stars in constellations that are merely chance alignments giving the appearance of 3-D shapes and creatures? I know how astronomy developed from astrology and no astronomer today has a problem with that and in fact we’re glad the ancient star-gazers did what they did. Beginners in astronomy still follow the path laid down by the Sumerians, Greeks and Egyptians.
    Any number of times we scientists have said “I don’t know the answer” and it is part of the creed of science to say I don’t know but we’re trying to find out. These days no scientist ever says we know everything and there’s no need to stop experimenting. They learned from that mistake. Science is the most open of disciplines and scientists enter the profession with open minds. NOTHING is rejected. It gets rejected if it doesn’t stand up to rigorous scrutiny and experimentation
    And how wonderful of you to welcome us along to explore. Your contention that this is our only chance to go with you as we may never find it again is as laughable as it is the height of hubris. Your followers have in the past, erroneously, claimed that the scientific element here have laid claim to the site and wish to de-bar non-scientists yet here you are saying ‘WE’ can come with ‘YOU’ on a journey! What a brass-necked person you are. This is not an open-to-every-discipline forum. It is an astronomy forum. Have you noticed the lack of discussion on the subjects you raise? Probably not as you are no doubt blinded by your light – the light of religious zealotry. Nobody is in the least bit interested in your ancient philosophy no matter how much you think it applies today.
    Pity I won’t be able to use any future rants from you for the amusement of our faculties and departments but changing the voice program on the computers should extend the life of the exercise.
    As this thread is now dead thanks to you and your insane followers I think it only right that we now follow you to your campfire and interject a series of pointless, rude, idiotic and insane comments. Any takers?

  1865. Amit: I must take issue with your assertion that Gordy and Owain have contributed nothing to the site. They might not have participated in a big way to the discussion but they have provided answers where and when I have not and indeed provided similar answers to questions. Ditto Kevin the archaeologist. Andy has stated on numerous occasions that he is not a scientist and came here looking for answers to scientific questions. A seeker has no obligation to provide anything other than questions.
    Look at your own situation. You have asked many pertinent questions about astronomy and we have tried to give you answers in a general way. There is no point in deluging you or Leah with pages of mathematics, physics equations etc when a questioner is looking for simple or ‘stage one’ answers and explanations. This is where the science brigade differ from PNG/aizou etc where the site has received unsolicited semi-religious posts in response to no questions whatsoever. One must ask to what end? An attempt to ‘convert’ the scientists?, the others who fetch up here?, or do you have some other agenda?

  1866. “we now follow you to your campfire and interject a series of pointless, rude, idiotic and insane comments.”

    Nothing new here.

    True to form and God loves you anyway.

  1867. good morning–all…

    Good Lord!!!! i was having trouble getting into the thread, and have been playing “catch-up”…gordy, owain, andy, even paul—you guys just don’t get it, and apparently you never will…everything is RELATIVE!!!!! this thread has not come to a stalemate…nothing has ended…believe me, dear men—-it is just beginning!!!!!

    how sad for you that you cannot “connect the dots”…i may not know much, but i know my heart, my soul, and my mind…the three work together…what i see as missing in the scientific community is the soul…you refuse to admit that it even exists…no wonder nothing the “campfire gang” says makes sense to you…

    i do not deny your “knowledge”…but your wisdom is lacking…

    good luck, guys…i hope you find your way!!!!

    please take care and be well…JAT, ditto…HE loves us all, anyway…

  1868. Becky. What on earth are you prattling on out? Joining the dots? Heart, soul, mind? That has nothing to do with anything that has gone before. Nothing the campfire gang makes no sense for precisely that reason. Astrology! Gnosticism! Reeling off the total number of possible combination of DNA base pairs! That shows a total misunderstanding of how biology, for just one example, works. The same goes for the understanding of the scientific method. Even when explained it still doesn’t get through.
    It has come to an end because no meaningful discussion has taken place for some time and the likes of the appalling Maddness or PNG who/whatever he/she/it is refuses to contribute anything other than spurious and rambling gnostic stuff and a stream of potty-mouthed abuse. Does she eat with that mouth? BTW, “dear girl”, what is beginning? Or is it something that only the chosen ones around the campfire will be privy to?

  1869. Posters such as PNG/Aizou/Maddness etc are examples of a cult of personality which explains
    the mindless hero worship of the Debauch incarnation and JAT
    In a desperate attempt to give him/herself a certain validity s/he even relies on ancient religious philosophies for verification of his/her version of a truth but whose contempt for the scientific community, method and the astronomers who post here is to
    cover up her/his own real fear, lack of understanding and intellectual inadequacies. There is no other real explanation for the continuous/continued posting of irrelevant poorly disguised religious propaganda.
    This type of person is seen all over UT and has been similarly dismissed in similar terms.

  1870. hi, gordy–and paul!!! easy–big fellas!!!! there are many other threads besides the ones on universe today that provide the same format for provacative debate…what’s that tell ya???? thank you, by the way, for the link you sent me…there are more than just the few here who are starting to question science and things AS WE CURRENTLY KNOW THEM TO BE…thinking or looking “outside the box” is not a bad thing…spirituality, philosophy, religion, science—they all have a place…they are even connected…if looked at collectively, they even accommodate and compliment each other….that is what i meant by “connecting the dots”…it my thought that one does not and cannot stand alone…they need each other…

    just the beginning?? we are all testament to changing times…again, it is just my thought that we haven’t even begun to scratch the tip of the iceburg…science, technology, awareness, consciencousness, is changing at an expedential rate…when was the last time you had a true “eurika moment”???? i have them all the time—they are exciting and exhilarating…they keep me curious and excited…science should never be “stale”…we keep looking “back” at the same old things…that’s okay…it provides a cornerstone on which to build…but it is getting old and starting to fall apart…the universe,in and of itself, is changing and expanding…and we are just along for the ride…it is my thought that science,alone cannot and will not sustain us…some turn to religion to fill in the gaps, some to spiritualism, some to ancient philosophy, archeology, etc for understanding of things to come…it’s not all bad…they have their place…some may even already know and are here trying to guide us…this seems to be where we part ways….

    …all i’m saying, guys, is that perhaps we should not be so quick to discard things we, ourselves, do not yet fully see, or understand….”old ways”, “old ideas” are not always the best, the only and right—they are the “safest” because they are the most familiar….

    i know you think i am “airy”, void of substance, etc…and that’s okay with me…it affords me lots of space to grow and learn…

    thanks, as always, for your kindness, and for allowing me to share my thoughts…

    have a wonderfully blessed day!!!! be well…

  1871. Well said Becky.But,alas,Pearls Before Swine.Science like goverment,no longer posesses a soul.Long live the campfire crews of the world.

  1872. Leo,

    Thanks for your good wishes for the Campfire Crew……
    You are very right about the government. No Soul, and no Heart as well!
    Science, well, i would not like to generalise and put all the Scientists in the same category.. But most of them, yeah….

  1873. Dear Becky,

    That was a nice argument, put forth in a very nice way….

    Dont bother what others think about you. Atleast the campfire crew values your thoughts and opinions!
    As for being “Airy”, well, even if you think you are being thought of as “Airy”, its way better than having your brain moulded in a block of concrete!

  1874. Paul,

    I dont agree with this part of your post –

    “irrelevant poorly disguised religious propaganda.”

    Irrelevant – If you say irrelevant with regard to the topic of the thread, then that makes 90 % of the posts irrelevant…. Otherwise, their postings are very relevant to the way one should handle his/her spiritual life…

    Poorly disguised – Well, there has been no effort to disguise anything, all their posts have been quite clear and open.Whatever has been conveyed has been done with the intention of sharing. So – “Poorly disguised” doesn’t apply!

    Religious Propaganda – Well, you are mixing spirituality with religion here.. I have never seen any religious connotation in their posts! Using the word “God” doesn’t count as ‘Religious” in the way you are interpreting it….

    The defence rests now, over to prosecution!

  1875. Becky: I have never once refered to you as ‘airey’ and neither has any other from the ‘scientific’ community as far as I can recall.
    You are totally correct in saying we should all think outside the box and explore far out ideas. However, and this is an important point, there is a huge difference between speculative thinking outside of the box and some of the outlandish claims made here in previous months. When science does think in a speculative way there is at least some link between the far out idea and grounded theories. E.g. Tachyons [faster than light particles]
    There is no, as yet, proof for them but they are there in the equations so at least theoretically they could exist and experiments could be designed to detect them [possibly]. Eleven dimensional space appears to be the best way of explaining the structure of the universe and it works very well in
    theory and the mathematics ‘proves’ it. However with current technology it isn’t possible to detct these hidden dimensions.
    Looking at an idea posted here a number of times relating to aliens tampering with human DNA thousands or millions of years ago it is an example of a ‘far out’ idea that could possibly have happened. [I believe others and myself have conceded that aliens may possibly have visited earth and we have both stated on numerous occasions we believe alien civilisations certainly exist out in the galaxy so there’s no dispute there] But the main difference here is that it is an idea that cannot be tested experimentally. One we don’t know what we’re looking for and two, we have no alien DNA with which to compare it. Therefore it is an idea that cannot be pursued and isn’t really worthy of serious consideration.
    It is all well and good saying that a few are questioning things as we currently know them but what are they questioning and do they have the background to do IN A MEANINGFUL WAY? merely saying ‘it’s all wrong and it’s false’ just because the science isn’t understood or isn’t liked or doesn’t fit with a personal philosophy isn’t either the right course and neither is it good enough. I may not particularly like the way the economy
    in my counrty or any other country is run at present but not being an economist I wouldn’t join a site dedicated to economics/business and say, ” you’re all a bunch of thieving losers who know nothing you must do it my way/this way or we’re doomed”. That would be arrogant and any economist
    who replied telling to shut up, go away and read up on the subject would be entirely correct and not in any way arrogant. My position as a non-specialist would be to ask questions, endlessly, in the hope the experts would have the time and patience to walk me through the complexities. It would not be to offer up outrageous, ludicrous or pointless solutions or ideas. I could suggest and ask why this or that would or wouldn’t work and when told why it might not be a solution accept gracefully not respond with a mouthful of foul invective because it didn’t
    fit with my particular cause.

  1876. Good point. Re e.g. EXPERTS re the ECONOMY……..if they really were experts, they would have known how NOT to run the economy in such a way that it would collapse…….they would have known and taken preventative steps.

    Its this way with all experts….they always think they are right, until they are wrong……and the damage is done. All to quick to play with the wellbeing of others, having not seen the downside to their theories prior to implementation…..only once its too late.

    Knowlege without wisdom is a dangerous thing. The most dangerous is, knowlege that is purposefully implemented in destructive ways according to an agenda that serves to benefit only a few, to the detrement of the many.

  1877. good morning!!!!

    thanks so very much for ALL your kindness…

    leo and amit–this campfire is, in deed, something special to me…no worries–just thanks…

    owain–a special thanks to you…your point is very well taken…i understand…

    geez–i know what i want to say, here, i’m just having a really hard time putting it all together…please bear with me–i promise i will try to keep this as brief as possible…

    owain, i read your post several times…the one word that stood out to me was “concede”…it gives me hope…not just from the scientific community, but for us all…for me, this journey started a long time ago—i just didn’t realize it…there were things i read, or heard or talked about that were just utter nonsense to me–at the time….years later, in some form or another, all that nonsense is starting to resurface…and i suspect that all the nonsense and outlandishness and outrageousness that we talk about here, will, at some point in time, resurface again…in some form or another…so –at least for me–nothing will be discarded–just “tucked away”…

    leah–hopefully, for us all, our “expertise” will find and take a new direction…because of the injustices and the travesties committed on the general public, we are rapidly becoming the “new experts”…we have to be in order to survive…

    thanks, as always, to you all for kindly indulging me…that’s it for today “from out in left field”…

    best wishes–please be well…

  1878. just an added footnote—in my haste, i forgot to finish my thought..

    “as all these things resurface”…they are the things that provide some of my best eurika moments…NOW, i get it, NOW i understand what they were saying, NOW see what they meant…NOW i know what they were talking about…it wasn’t really “nonsense” at all…

  1879. Dear Owain,

    Your point is well taken and understood…
    We never wanted to force our ideas down your throats, we were just providing arguments to support them… And thats what a “debate” is all about right? Both sides supporting their own ideas… But the manner in which it was being done by your side is highly objectionable….
    Its not necessary for any idea to be “experimentally testable” in orer for it to qualify as being debatable…. Evidence from past also qualifies a good criteria for legitimacy….

  1880. I have been reading about the “Shiva Hypothesis” .. Quite interesting, and very well relates to what we have been discussing…
    Just wanted to bring it to the campfire to see what you guys think about it…..

  1881. Hi Amit,

    Hope you are all well. I’ve mentioned this before. The ones that have researched this area are….Raup, Sepkoski, Muller, Rampino and Alvarez.
    We are in the galactic plane area…..but none has yet been able to establish to my own personal satisfaction, exactly where we are in relation to the plane itself.
    Some quote that we are 60 light years above the plane, whilst others maintain we are yet to cross the plane, from below to above.

    The period when asteroids etc could hit earth, could be a million years from now for all we can tell, judging by the research that the masses have been privy to.

    Be well,
    Leah

  1882. Dear Owain,
    Thank you for your analogy. My personal deductions are, that we are above the galactic plane.
    Be well,
    Leah

  1883. Leah: you say that some people say that we have yet to cross the galactic plane. Can you tell me who because their reasoning is off the beam. It is quite easy to establish where in relation to the rest of the galaxy we are. Put simply our motion relative to the rest of the milky way shows we are on an upward trajectory and our speed indicates that we will continue this motion for some millions of years to come. When we reach the top of the curve the galaxy’s gravitational pull will cancel out our motion and pull us back ‘down’ through the plane and so out through to the ‘southern’ side of the galaxy.
    Imagine us as the seat of a swing and the framework as the galaxy and the seat in motion. To make it ‘real’ think of the framework on wheels and having been given a push. The surrounding park, house, and city can be viewed as the ‘local’ universe. You can visualise the swing in motion relative to the framework, the framework/swing seat in motion relative to the park. This isn’t the best analogy to be sure but it should serve to give you some idea of the way it works.

  1884. Hello Leah,
    I’m interested in you deductions. What factors and methods have you used to determine that we are above the galactic plane?
    Thanks.
    Bob

  1885. Dear Bob Clarke,

    Please forgive me, but my answer would be too long and drawn out. It is only an opinion, in part, due to the lack of evidence that our solar system is on, or below the galactic plane at the present time.
    Be well,
    Leah

  1886. To Amit.
    I certainly admire your tenacity in sticking to your guns but you have to face the facts that the majority of your ideas are just plain wrong though I would agree that you have provided arguments to back up your ideas. Paul, Kevin, Gordy and I have pointed out many times that there is no proof or reason to believe that, for example, aliens have altered human DNA. The evolution of humans and apes from a common ancestor is fairly well established in both the fossil record [by comparative anatomy] and DNA analysis. There are gaps in the fossil record but that is no reason to assume that those gaps correspond to gene tampering.
    Again I agree with you that an idea doesn’t have to be “experimentally testable” just to be debated. One can debate until the cows come home but for an idea to be taken seriously or become accepted as a fact it has to be tested experimentally many times over and the results have to come up pretty much the same time after time. The reason you find our responses objectionable is that you and, for want of a better term, your side, refuse to see that very point. Beyond a certain point standing steadfastly by ideas that cannot be proved becomes ludicrous and even, I’m afraid, laughable.
    Unfortunately your side tries to back up your ideas by constantly citing authors who are found time and again to be fraudulent, spurious or lacking in the scientific rigour required. By all means pick up far out ideas and air them but please be prepared to have them subjected to a thorough and detailed analysis. If not then prepare to have them ridiculed.

  1887. Owain,

    I understand your point…
    Ridicule the “ideas” by all means, as much as you want.. But dont ridicule the “persons” presenting those ideas…
    Its utterly absurd to start questioning the person’s birth and lineage on the basis of his/her views…
    And as for my arguments, there are many many points which your side has not been able to counter argue. And dont forget there were many points that i raised besides the Fossil Record Gaps. The study of DNA is the most decisive factor in questioning the their of evolution….
    I agree that we may not have proven our case conclusively, but neither have you disproved it… So its even stevens as far as this debate is concerned…. Regarding beliefs, its perfect;y normal to cling to your own beliefs… Or “Sticking to your guns” as you out it…
    There are innumerable gaps that need to be plugged before the theory of evolution becomes entirely and universally acceptable..

  1888. Dear marcus,
    Please don’t twist my words…..based on the observations of ASTRONOMERS, and the evidence to date plus my own deductions, I feel that we ARE ABOVE the galactic plane at present.

    In my previous post I wrote that there is a lack of evidence that our solar system is on or below the galactic plane…..THEREFORE that means we must be ABOVE the galactic plane.

  1889. Bob:
    What she means is that she doesn’t believe the astronomer’s deductions.
    No matter how much evidence is shown, given or pointed to some people just refuse to believe it. They only EVER believe what they can work out for themselves especially if it’s “frightening” science and of course they can’t work it out because they don’t understand science. They cannot take as truth what is presented because they are deeply suspisious of virtually everything. Just look at some of the postings here in months gone by. There are many, many postings that state that ‘we’ i.e. society, doesn’t know the answer to something when the answer is well know or has been established for decades. What is meant is that the people like Amit/PNG and Leah refuse to accept it because it doesn’t fit their particular mind-set, they haven’t seen the particular phenomenon for themselves or it is beyond their uunderstanding. Nothing wrong with not understanding [we all start off like that] but that don’t mean we have to refuse to accept it.

  1890. Hello Amit,

    No worries. If they had read previous posts, they would known I that I have not voiced any belief to date…..only opinion. Opinion and belief being 2 completely different things.
    Hope you are all well,
    Leah

  1891. Marcus.

    We have had more than enough of your dreary monologues about our personality and beliefs!!!
    We all know what you think about us…..
    Please tell us something new!

    You are only twisting Leah’s words to misinterpret what she meant….
    Moreover, the link that i have provided supports Leah’s view on the position of the Solar System with respect to Milky Way…. And BTW, the article is based on”Astronomers’ Deductions” only….

    And you talk about “Understanding” Science! Oh…. Bugger!!!

  1892. It is my belief that I share your belief on opinion. It is also my opinion that belief is a personal journey, each tailored by experience. Our readers may not have thought about the fact I have influenced their lives, just because they read what was written.

  1893. marcus, each one of us have our own thoughts, ideas, ideals, opinions, and beliefs…they are the end result of a lifetime of living….subject to change at any given second, by the way…we may have to endure an earthquake, terrorist attack, or some other tragic event, and each of us would walk away from it an entirely different person than we were just seconds before…you have no rights to impose your “perceptions” of us on anyone…you do not know what lives in our hearts…

  1894. Amit: This is what Nasif Nahle says in the link you posted above: There are other large “bubbles” of Cosmic Radiation (Interstellar Wind)
    that will shock with the Solar Wind, causing changes in the activity of the Sun and in the climate of the Planets of the Solar System. The starships Voyager-1 and Voyager-2 have detected high densities of Cosmic Radiation that are affecting the climate on Earth and other planets of the Solar System. The changes have been manifested like increases of the Tropospheric Temperature on Earth above the standard fluctuations. The
    warming and the climate change have been detected also in Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Pluto. Some satellites of Jupiter and Saturn are experiencing global warming and climate change.

    Astronomer my backside. The above paragraph, from
    the Biology Cabinet by the way, is totally misleading. True the Voyager craft have detected a fluctuation in interstellar radiation but the changes have in no way been proved to be responsible for climate change/global warming on ANY of the planets. Changes in the atmospheres of Saturn and Jupiter are local phenomena due to the very turbulent and complex mix of gases there.
    Once again we see ‘cherry-picked’ data used to suit a particular idea.
    For example – the changes in the atmosphere of Pluto is due to the changes in it’s orbit and the increasing distance from the sun.
    It’s an absolute travesty that data is deliberately misrepresented. either that or the person doesn’t understand.

  1895. What if the significance of the 2012 solstice alignment of Earth, the Sun and the galactic plane, is to do with not the plane itself. What else will Earth and our Sun be in alignment with, other than the galactic plane or the black hole at the centre of the Milky Way during 2012 ?

    We could pass through a region of high gamma radiation, from say a supernova event, which could take as little as 2 minutes to pass through. We could be shielded by our sun for those 2 minutes, due to the alignment of Earth, Sun and supernova event location. The sun could effect earth with its own reaction to the radiation blast.

    E.g. Like passing through the radiation that Wolf-Rayet 104 could emit. It will be solar maximum in 2012……the sun’s reaction to the effects of another event could be a period of increased solar flare activity etc.

    Once the significance of such possibilities have been recognised, one would take precautions……e.g. building underground, such as ancient civilisations did.

  1896. it is just my thought that the operative words here are “change/changes/changing”…no one seems to be able to pinpoint with absolute certainty the “who-what-when-where-why-or how’s” of it all…it remains supposition…
    frederick, you, too, are guilty as charged..you picked apart one paragraph…in it’s entirety, what else did it say????? …it’s food for thought to me…

    please be well and take care…

  1897. Sorry….Betelgeuse is approx 650 ly away.

    I asked the question “what else could we align with other than the plane itself or the centre of the Milky Way” because of the fixation of so many with the plane itself, which is an imaginary line as it were, used as a reference only. If a line were drawn through the core of Earth and the Sun, what would we be aligned with, on or before 21/12/2012. If we find nothing, that poses a threat, then there should be less concern re this date.

    I personally don’t hold with, having the ozone layer stripped away, as having little substantial effect. Radiation alters / mutates DNA. The evidence may not be spectacular, it might be subtle, like a change in evolution.

    Is it possible that some recants of the SN 37,000 years ago was passed down through generations, to tell / warn of its effects, which is not to say it will happen again anytime soon, but which will happen again eventually. Could the Egyptians have built the pyramids aligned to Orions Belt, because of an inherited concern re SNs and because of the status quo of Betelgeuse.

  1898. No one can possibly assume that they know what e.g. the egyptians knew or didn’t know, as they were not there. They did however build the pyramids as a perfect mirror image of Orions belt……or maybe they just built them in that precise configuration by accident.

    My point precisely, is that earth and the sun are constantly aligning with something.

  1899. Leah. In exactly what way do you think the earth and solar system will be alignment with the galactic plane and black hole at the centre of the galaxy?
    As for passing through the radiation from a supernova once any such SN has been detected we are in the radiation and its path For any lasting damage to be done to earth and its inhabitants the SN would have to be very close. The closest star to earth that COULD go supernova is Betelgeaux which is around 650 light years away. Though it would be extremely bright there would be no danger to us here. Around 37,000 yeas ago it appears a star did go supernova fairly close by and stripped away the ozone layer. We’re still here and there is little evidence life was affected in any substantial way.

  1900. Leah says: Could the Egyptians have built the pyramids aligned to Orions Belt, because of an inherited concern re SNs and because of the status quo of Betelgeuse.
    Well no. The Egyptians knew nothing about any stars’ evolution so they wouldn’t have been concerned about Betelgeuse going supernova. If you draw a line through the core of the sun, the earth, anything in fact it will be aligned with something so it has absolutely no relevance, that is NO relevance whatsoever.
    I don’t know or understand why you are so bothered by stuff lining up.

  1901. Dear Richard… You say:

    True the Voyager craft have detected a fluctuation in interstellar radiation but the changes have in no way been proved to be responsible for climate change/global warming on ANY of the planets. Changes in the atmospheres of Saturn and Jupiter are local phenomena due to the very turbulent and complex mix of gases there.
    Once again we see ‘cherry-picked’ data used to suit a particular idea.
    For example – the changes in the atmosphere of Pluto is due to the changes in it’s orbit and the increasing distance from the sun.
    It’s an absolute travesty that data is deliberately misrepresented. either that or the person doesn’t understand.

    It’s not what I say, but what other scientists say on articles published in Science Magazine, NAS, NASA, Harvard, etc. If you wish to find inconsistencies on a work, read the references first and then… talk. What Voyagers found was not a normal density, but an anomaly at the bow shock.

    Regards,

    Nasif Nahle

    P. S. Your explanations on changes on other planets have been falsified. All referred changes occurred on the same period the Earth had its global warming.

  1902. Leah,

    Agree with you. Its the “unknown” quaity of the Crossing/Alignment in 2012 that is causing so much speculation. no one knows what will happen. There are so many possibilites, and when it comes to occurence, there may be none!
    Still, i personally belive that there is a lot of siognificance in the structures built by the Egyptians and Mayans, based on heavenly bodies. Such alignments cannot be credited to mere coincidence!

  1903. Hi Amit,

    No, they were deffinately not built by coincidence, but I keep in mind e.g. that we are no longer in the same location in space as they were, and therefore conditions external to the solar system are not the same either, so our experience will be a variation of their experience.
    We can hope that what we have experienced in the recent past, and are experiencing now, re climate and geological events, is the
    most we will have to endure.

    Be well,
    Leah

  1904. Hi Paul,

    Hope you are well and had a good Easter holiday.
    Yup I’m aware. The ancients are deffinately alluding to there being something important re the precession and or periodic location in space, that warrents paying attention to….back then, and now.
    However, as we know…..different location = different conditions….in truth, there is no starting point and no finnishing point to the precession……one could nominate any one point anywhere in the cycle….and call it the beginning/end. To know the significance of why the point of completion of the precession was chosen in the first place, would be useful.

    Are there any thoughts on this in the cosmological field ?
    Be well,
    Leah

  1905. Paul,

    Who, if you know, are the fore runners in tracking the strength of the Solar magnetic field at the moment, and who has the historical data ?
    Be well,
    Leah

  1906. I don’t think there’s any real debate regarding the validity of the alignment of the Giza pyramids with the stars of Orion’s Belt. This has been known for a number of years and isn’t mere coincidence. There are innumerable instances of ancient cultures from all over the globe dedicating and aligning temples, megalithic structures etc to either reflect the stars or ‘appease’ the gods. Again this is not a problem for academia. Whether it was the dominant reason for it is something that can be argued especially as many of these cultures didn’t leave a written history so it’s a matter of personal interpretation.
    Your point, Leah, about not being in the same place in space is a very good one. You may know, or not, that some ancient monuments in the Near East are lined up with Thuban which was the Pole Star thousands of years ago. The next bright star to take its place as Pole star will be Vega in Lyra. It’s the bright blue star visible almost overhead in the summer. The precession of the pole will then bring Polaris back as Pole Star.

  1907. I’d look first at the JPL site. Then look for a link to the Voyagers/Pioneers. You could also google something like, ‘solar mag field and follow any link to a recognised science site. The Pacific Astro Soc. is a mine of information covering all kinds of data.

    I don’t think there’s any significance in why such and such a point in the precession was picked historically. If you trace out the circle along which our pole passes there are vast areas with no bright star/stars. It is just down to chance or luck if there happened to be a bright star marking the pole when a particular civilisation chose to align a building with the Pole. In the current epoch the pole star has moved somewhat so our pole of rotation isn’t lined up properly. So it goes, so it goes.
    The ancients will have known about precession but by knowing how it occurred may not have ascribed particular significance to it.

  1908. Thanks Paul….I’ll check it out.
    Its as I see it re the precession….any bright star would cut it as the beginning / completion of the precession. Useful as a long count calendar….where one is in the cycle denotes when one is in the cycle.
    Be well,
    Leah

  1909. THE STEPPING STONES ROUTE TO GLOBAL DOMINATION

    Societies do not usually lose their freedom at a blow. They give it up bit by bit, letting themselves be tied down with an infinity of little knots. As rules and regulations increase, their range of actions is gradually compressed. Their options slowly lessen.

    Without noticing the change, they become wards of state. They imagine themselves still free, but in a thousand and one ways, their choices are limited and guided by the authorities.

    And always, there are what seem to be sensible reasons for letting their autonomy be peeled away – “safety”, “health”, “social justice”, “equal opportunity.”

    It is easy to become accustomed to docility. That is why eternal vigilance is the price of liberty. Not because liberty is easy to shatter. Because it can be softened and dismantled with the acquiescence of the very men and women from whom it is being stolen.

    Jeff Jacoby, columnist, Boston Post.

  1910. Global domination by who? I think we should be told. Or perhaps its just a conspiracy. Perhaps JJ is JAT or OILS or one of the other bozos here.

Comments are closed.