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> <channel><title>Comments on: The Extremely Large Telescope</title> <atom:link href="http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/</link> <description>Space and astronomy news</description> <lastBuildDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 03:02:27 +0000</lastBuildDate> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2</generator> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <item><title>By: ND</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-2/#comment-73920</link> <dc:creator>ND</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:43:31 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73920</guid> <description>www.eso.org/sci/facilities/eelt/owl/index_3.htmlI love the name of that scope.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a
href="http://www.eso.org/sci/facilities/eelt/owl/index_3.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.eso.org/sci/facilities/eelt/owl/index_3.html</a></p><p>I love the name of that scope.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: ND</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-2/#comment-73919</link> <dc:creator>ND</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:39:44 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73919</guid> <description>LBC,&quot;CCDs on a very large flat surface&quot;, virtual mirror? You just made my brain explode.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LBC,</p><p>&#034;CCDs on a very large flat surface&#034;, virtual mirror? You just made my brain explode.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Lawrence B. Crowell</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73913</link> <dc:creator>Lawrence B. Crowell</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 12:46:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73913</guid> <description>@CrazyEddieBlogger:  Right, in effect an optical system is a sort of filter.  Any lens or mirror which concentrates light and generate a virtual image is performing an analogue Fourier transform.  This could be done entirely digitally.  In fact adpative optics could be done this way, which would be I think the first step in this direction.  This would remove the need for mechanical changes in the shape of secondary mirrors.LC</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@CrazyEddieBlogger:  Right, in effect an optical system is a sort of filter.  Any lens or mirror which concentrates light and generate a virtual image is performing an analogue Fourier transform.  This could be done entirely digitally.  In fact adpative optics could be done this way, which would be I think the first step in this direction.  This would remove the need for mechanical changes in the shape of secondary mirrors.</p><p>LC</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Kitsune</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73911</link> <dc:creator>Kitsune</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 07:08:50 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73911</guid> <description>So where exactly will this telescope be located? I&#039;ve read the article several times but I don&#039;t think it mentions this. Atacama Desert?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So where exactly will this telescope be located? I&#039;ve read the article several times but I don&#039;t think it mentions this. Atacama Desert?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: CrazyEddieBlogger</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73910</link> <dc:creator>CrazyEddieBlogger</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:02:47 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73910</guid> <description>@LC   InterestingAm I understanding this right?You will also argue that if the individual detectors know where they are at any given time, the flatness of the physical structure is not as critical.And you&#039;ll make a sparse array too, no doubt.So this is a bit like digital interferometry?(Everything is interferometry, really - there was something in school about a wave front basically being equivalent to an infinite number of point source interfering with each other.  I think this means that the CCDs will have to capture the phase information)Disclaimer - It might very well be that I have no idea what the hell I am talking about. However, that has rarely stopped me before.. I&#039;m a mechanical engineer, you see.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@LC   Interesting</p><p>Am I understanding this right?</p><p>You will also argue that if the individual detectors know where they are at any given time, the flatness of the physical structure is not as critical.</p><p>And you&#039;ll make a sparse array too, no doubt.</p><p>So this is a bit like digital interferometry?</p><p>(Everything is interferometry, really &#8211; there was something in school about a wave front basically being equivalent to an infinite number of point source interfering with each other.  I think this means that the CCDs will have to capture the phase information)</p><p>Disclaimer &#8211; It might very well be that I have no idea what the hell I am talking about. However, that has rarely stopped me before.. I&#039;m a mechanical engineer, you see.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Tammy Plotner</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73904</link> <dc:creator>Tammy Plotner</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:04:23 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73904</guid> <description>outstanding article, robert.  congratulations!!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>outstanding article, robert.  congratulations!!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Astrofiend</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73900</link> <dc:creator>Astrofiend</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 22:53:46 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73900</guid> <description>CrazyEddieBlogger Says:
November 24th, 2009 at 9:19 am&quot;@Astrofiend… Have mercy on your fellow astronomers… It might prove somewhat distracting to work in the same room with a burning limbless scientist t having continuous multiple orgasms.&quot;:) I&#039;ll see if I can restrain myself...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CrazyEddieBlogger Says:<br
/> November 24th, 2009 at 9:19 am</p><p>&#034;@Astrofiend… Have mercy on your fellow astronomers… It might prove somewhat distracting to work in the same room with a burning limbless scientist t having continuous multiple orgasms.&#034;</p><p> <img
src='http://www.universetoday.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> I&#039;ll see if I can restrain myself&#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: pink</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73888</link> <dc:creator>pink</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 18:22:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73888</guid> <description>&quot;It would be capable of observing planets around stars within 15-30 light years of the Earth – there are almost 400 stars within that distance!&quot;What about stars that are closer than that??  It would be SO COOL to get direct observations of the Alpha Centauri system.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#034;It would be capable of observing planets around stars within 15-30 light years of the Earth – there are almost 400 stars within that distance!&#034;</p><p>What about stars that are closer than that??  It would be SO COOL to get direct observations of the Alpha Centauri system.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Lawrence B. Crowell</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73886</link> <dc:creator>Lawrence B. Crowell</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:39:10 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73886</guid> <description>I will state that I think a telescope could be made with a large flat surface filled with nanaoscale CCDs.  The mirror focuses light of course, but ultimately this focusing is a Fourier transform.  You could in principle do the same thing with the detection of light from a vast array of CCDs on a very large flat surface, where the Fourier transform is done numerically.  In effect the mirror here would be a numerically generated virtual mirror instead of a real mirror that is far more expensive.LC</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will state that I think a telescope could be made with a large flat surface filled with nanaoscale CCDs.  The mirror focuses light of course, but ultimately this focusing is a Fourier transform.  You could in principle do the same thing with the detection of light from a vast array of CCDs on a very large flat surface, where the Fourier transform is done numerically.  In effect the mirror here would be a numerically generated virtual mirror instead of a real mirror that is far more expensive.</p><p>LC</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: CrazyEddieBlogger</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73885</link> <dc:creator>CrazyEddieBlogger</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:19:43 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73885</guid> <description>@Astrofiend... Have mercy on your fellow astronomers... It might prove somewhat distracting to work in the same room with a burning limbless scientist t having continuous multiple orgasms.Does anyone know if these guys making real progress?
http://www.tmt.org/timeline/index.htmlTMT is not as large, but if it&#039;s on track, it gets dibbs on the &quot;30 m highly segmented&quot; class</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Astrofiend&#8230; Have mercy on your fellow astronomers&#8230; It might prove somewhat distracting to work in the same room with a burning limbless scientist t having continuous multiple orgasms.</p><p>Does anyone know if these guys making real progress?<br
/> <a
href="http://www.tmt.org/timeline/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.tmt.org/timeline/index.html</a></p><p>TMT is not as large, but if it&#039;s on track, it gets dibbs on the &#034;30 m highly segmented&#034; class</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: hale-bopp</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73883</link> <dc:creator>hale-bopp</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:04:57 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73883</guid> <description>&quot;Computer systems move the 984 individual mirrored panels up to a thousand times a second to cancel out this blurring effect in real time. The result is an image almost as crisp as if the telescope were in space.&quot;Is that right?  With the Keck Telescopes, the individual segments are what&#039;s called an active surface.  They move the individual segments to keep the primary mirror in an optimal shape as they telescope points to different parts of the sky.  This correction is done at a much lower frequency than the adaptive optics correction which is done tens to hundreds of times per second.Adaptive optics is currently done by deforming a mirror farther along the optical path.  The LBT uses a deformable secondary mirror and they have been having some trouble using such a large deformable mirror.Does anyone know more details on the proposed AO system for the E-ELT?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#034;Computer systems move the 984 individual mirrored panels up to a thousand times a second to cancel out this blurring effect in real time. The result is an image almost as crisp as if the telescope were in space.&#034;</p><p>Is that right?  With the Keck Telescopes, the individual segments are what&#039;s called an active surface.  They move the individual segments to keep the primary mirror in an optimal shape as they telescope points to different parts of the sky.  This correction is done at a much lower frequency than the adaptive optics correction which is done tens to hundreds of times per second.</p><p>Adaptive optics is currently done by deforming a mirror farther along the optical path.  The LBT uses a deformable secondary mirror and they have been having some trouble using such a large deformable mirror.</p><p>Does anyone know more details on the proposed AO system for the E-ELT?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Molecular</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73882</link> <dc:creator>Molecular</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 15:38:55 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73882</guid> <description>Thanks Astrofiend and Lawrence, that makes it more clearer for me. :)</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Astrofiend and Lawrence, that makes it more clearer for me. <img
src='http://www.universetoday.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Aodhhan</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73879</link> <dc:creator>Aodhhan</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:39:45 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73879</guid> <description>This is one of those things where so many items come to mind, I have no idea which one to say... so I&#039;m left speechless.I truly hope they can finish it before the end of the next decade.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is one of those things where so many items come to mind, I have no idea which one to say&#8230; so I&#039;m left speechless.</p><p>I truly hope they can finish it before the end of the next decade.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Lawrence B. Crowell</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73878</link> <dc:creator>Lawrence B. Crowell</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 13:37:12 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73878</guid> <description>Interferometry requires phase information from the EM radiation detected.  For radio telescopes the detected EM radiation is converted into an EM wave on a transmission line from each dish, and these are then combined via wave mechanics to emulate what is detected by a very large dish.  This can be done with optical systems, but the wavelengths of light are far smaller and the technical challenge more difficult.Optical interferometers employ beam splitters and optical fiber.  Optical interferometers are then precise optical bench systems.  So optical interferometry involves precise phasing information and exact positioning information.  Getting this from a range of scopes in orbit would be difficult in the extreme.LC</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interferometry requires phase information from the EM radiation detected.  For radio telescopes the detected EM radiation is converted into an EM wave on a transmission line from each dish, and these are then combined via wave mechanics to emulate what is detected by a very large dish.  This can be done with optical systems, but the wavelengths of light are far smaller and the technical challenge more difficult.</p><p>Optical interferometers employ beam splitters and optical fiber.  Optical interferometers are then precise optical bench systems.  So optical interferometry involves precise phasing information and exact positioning information.  Getting this from a range of scopes in orbit would be difficult in the extreme.</p><p>LC</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Astrofiend</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73876</link> <dc:creator>Astrofiend</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 12:36:25 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73876</guid> <description>#  Molecular Says:
November 24th, 2009 at 12:10 am&quot;Is it possible that a telescope like this could be used in conjunction with a space based telescope like Hubble to get even better images of distant objects, like extra-solar planets?&quot;If you mean for interferometry, like commonly employed for radio telescopes and like they do by combining the light from the two Keck telescopes or the four VLT telescopes in Chile, then no - not with any currently available technology, nor any technology that would become available any time soon. To do optical interferometry, you need to combine the light from the different telescopes with path lengths equal to within a small fraction of the wavelength of the shortest wavelength of light you are interested in. So, say you want the full visible spectrum, that would be a small fraction of 400 nanometres. This has only very recently become achievable with stationary ground telescopes separated by no more than a few hundred metres. The Hubble, on the other hand, is wizzing around Earth much faster than a rifle bullet travels, in a roughly though not precisely circular orbit. Relative to the stationary EELT, it&#039;s motion would be even more complex. Not to mention slight perturbations to it&#039;s orbit due to small gravitational anomalies that would become important at this level of required precision. There is simply no physical way to combine the beams from these telescopes for interferometry, or to record the observations and correlate the signals later on for optical wavelengths.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#  Molecular Says:<br
/> November 24th, 2009 at 12:10 am</p><p>&#034;Is it possible that a telescope like this could be used in conjunction with a space based telescope like Hubble to get even better images of distant objects, like extra-solar planets?&#034;</p><p>If you mean for interferometry, like commonly employed for radio telescopes and like they do by combining the light from the two Keck telescopes or the four VLT telescopes in Chile, then no &#8211; not with any currently available technology, nor any technology that would become available any time soon. To do optical interferometry, you need to combine the light from the different telescopes with path lengths equal to within a small fraction of the wavelength of the shortest wavelength of light you are interested in. So, say you want the full visible spectrum, that would be a small fraction of 400 nanometres. This has only very recently become achievable with stationary ground telescopes separated by no more than a few hundred metres. The Hubble, on the other hand, is wizzing around Earth much faster than a rifle bullet travels, in a roughly though not precisely circular orbit. Relative to the stationary EELT, it&#039;s motion would be even more complex. Not to mention slight perturbations to it&#039;s orbit due to small gravitational anomalies that would become important at this level of required precision. There is simply no physical way to combine the beams from these telescopes for interferometry, or to record the observations and correlate the signals later on for optical wavelengths.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: clament</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73874</link> <dc:creator>clament</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:29:01 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73874</guid> <description>i agreed with Molecular, that will be an ultra-telescope =D</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i agreed with Molecular, that will be an ultra-telescope =D</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Marc Tiedemann</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73873</link> <dc:creator>Marc Tiedemann</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:13:53 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73873</guid> <description>I already heard about this... a friend who is working at Paranal Observatory told me, that they are going to build it there. I really hope, that i will be able to work at this Telescope in 2018...</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I already heard about this&#8230; a friend who is working at Paranal Observatory told me, that they are going to build it there. I really hope, that i will be able to work at this Telescope in 2018&#8230;</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Molecular</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73872</link> <dc:creator>Molecular</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 07:10:04 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73872</guid> <description>Is it possible that a telescope like this could be used in conjunction with a space based telescope like Hubble to get even better images of distant objects, like extra-solar planets?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it possible that a telescope like this could be used in conjunction with a space based telescope like Hubble to get even better images of distant objects, like extra-solar planets?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Lawrence B. Crowell</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73866</link> <dc:creator>Lawrence B. Crowell</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 01:41:00 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73866</guid> <description>I read in the AAAS Science about this, and the debate between segmented mirrors and single large mirrors.  I think that segmented mirrors are clearly the better option for costs and replacement costs if there is damage to the surface.  Optical interferometry is also a good option as well.  This can reduce the tendency towards gigantism, and giant budgets as well.LC</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read in the AAAS Science about this, and the debate between segmented mirrors and single large mirrors.  I think that segmented mirrors are clearly the better option for costs and replacement costs if there is damage to the surface.  Optical interferometry is also a good option as well.  This can reduce the tendency towards gigantism, and giant budgets as well.</p><p>LC</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Astrofiend</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73863</link> <dc:creator>Astrofiend</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:25:20 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73863</guid> <description>I would sell all of my limbs to be able to work at this observatory. I would literally spontaneously combust and simultaneously have multiple orgasms upon viewing a telescope mirror of this size.I wonder what behemoths they are going to be pointing around in 100 years? Damn you relatively short life span!</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would sell all of my limbs to be able to work at this observatory. I would literally spontaneously combust and simultaneously have multiple orgasms upon viewing a telescope mirror of this size.</p><p>I wonder what behemoths they are going to be pointing around in 100 years? Damn you relatively short life span!</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Sili</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73861</link> <dc:creator>Sili</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 00:10:18 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73861</guid> <description>Will this thing have satellite observatories, too, to allow for interferometry? That way they&#039;ll have even better resolution.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will this thing have satellite observatories, too, to allow for interferometry? That way they&#039;ll have even better resolution.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: SuperKevin</title><link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/23/the-extremely-large-telescope/comment-page-1/#comment-73852</link> <dc:creator>SuperKevin</dc:creator> <pubDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:14:54 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=45811#comment-73852</guid> <description>Wow, this is the most exciting astronomy news i&#039;ve heard in a long time.  Just how &#039;clear&#039; will it be able to take images of stars and planets?  Will we be able to make out color differences on their &#039;surfaces&#039;?</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, this is the most exciting astronomy news i&#039;ve heard in a long time.  Just how &#039;clear&#039; will it be able to take images of stars and planets?  Will we be able to make out color differences on their &#039;surfaces&#039;?</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
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