Comments on: Electrically Charged Particles Found in Enceladus' Plumes

By: Orangeshift

Orangeshift — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 04:09:00 +0000

Of course the particles are charged. Enceladus' plumes have been giving off radio emissions to the extent that discharges can be co-related to changes in the rotational speed of Saturn's rings (ring-speed is determined by "listening" to the radio frequencies- http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewpr.html?pid=22197).

The aurora found at the poles of many planets are also "electrical", as can be seen by their filamented structure. I guess it's no wonder we find charged particle-plumes at Enceladus' pole. I think it's high time people stopped imagining frozen volcanoes (did anyone really take that seriously?) and started looking at more sensible explanations.

By: solrey

solrey — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 00:39:07 +0000

It's been well demonstrated that liquid water will "freeze" at room temperature in a strong electric field. Enceladus has a surface made primarily of water ice. A strong electric current could flow through the frozen crust and not melt it. Water is an effective conductor of electricity. The current flowing through Enceladus, entering via the northern third (roughly), travels along the surface, producing the Lichtenberg-like scarring of grooves and fissures, and exits the south pole along the "tiger stripes", spaced and aligned via Biot-Savaart law in conjunction with Enceladus' weak magnetic field. The "plumes" are actually cathode glow discharge arcs at high points along the "fissures", which act as wire, or line, "coronal discharge" filaments. Why does Enceladus have a magnetosphere? It's a "load" in a circuit.

By: Ian Tresman

Ian Tresman — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:08:06 +0000

Isn't this a "plasma fountain", AKA "plasma plume", which I said was like the Ice Volcanoes on Enceladus in the BAUT thread here:
http://www.bautforum.com/universe-today-story-comments/35489-new-view-space-weather-cold-fronts.html

By: solrey

solrey — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 16:34:52 +0000

@billdavis
While a backflow of positive ions toward the surface is likely happening, I think what's been detected is the Langmuir sheath/double layer, of the plasma glow discharge. The + ions in the positive sheath are probably drifting toward the surface.

Enceladus and Saturn's electric connection seems very similar to what's happening between Io and Jupiter, only with lower current density.

By: Bill Davis

Bill Davis — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:48:44 +0000

I think the causative effect is a current flux through the moon, and the ice particles (by the description these are nanoparticles) are electrically sputtered off the surface. Enceladus is part of an electric circuit with Saturn. A charged particle flux, as has been described, is the flow of electricity, and all circuits must complete. I suspect that in the flow of charged nanoparticles will be found lone electrons and ions comprising a current. I also think the oppositely charged particles will be found to be flowing in opposite directions, as they would in a circuit. There is no reference to a measurement of the flow direction, it is assumed to be outward, and I have not seen that the direction of flow is measured.

By: Marco

Marco — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 14:27:17 +0000

@ Dave Fenton,

You are right. The only reason the unnamed ranter keeps posting is because people keep responding. I don't fault him, I do blame the responders.

By: jerry

jerry — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:56:41 +0000

Ice particles in a nearly vacuum emerging into a magnetic field. If you did this experiment on earth, triboelectric effects would charge the particles, and they would segregate by charge in the magnetic field.

Now if we only knew what really caused triboelectric effects.

By: UKDave

UKDave — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 07:46:47 +0000

solrey says

"…indicate that those are electric discharge vortices, rather than subsurface eruptions"

I was thinking along similar lines. Enceladus is very close to Saturn, and its rings, and may interact with Saturns huge magnetic field rather like some vast van de graff generator with fine ionised particles of ice being pulled off the surface through lines of magnetic flux.

By: Dave Finton

Dave Finton — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 03:43:53 +0000

You know what this thread needs? A post containing a 2 page-, 8 paragraph-long rant about how that person is not ranting. It does seem like a feature in every thread on Universe Today lately.

By: solrey

solrey — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 03:36:21 +0000

Oops. Hit submit by mistake.
So to continue, here's that link to Enceladus temp map:
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/cassini/multimedia/pia06432.html

Kind of odd, to NASA anyways, that the heat is localized at the South pole. The particle streams, charge seperation, anomolous hot spot and very fine particles among other things, indicate that those are electric discharge vortices, rather than subsurface eruptions.

By: solrey

solrey — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 03:28:26 +0000

"As the spacecraft passed the moon, CAPS detected streams of charged particles in individual jets within the plume."

Streams of charged particles in individual jets within the plume. And the particles in Saturns plasma stream slow down when interacting with Enceladus plume. Individual jets come and go, or move, but the region as a whole is persistent. Note the huge difference between the predicted and the observed temperature of Enceladus.

By: OilIsMastery

OilIsMastery — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:57:41 +0000

Ah, finally an intelligent post sans 17th century occult gravitation.

By: Astrofiend

Astrofiend — Wed, 22 Apr 2009 02:24:14 +0000

"In this way Saturn’s magnetosphere acts as an enormous mass spectrometer for the plume particles, allowing scientists to constrain their masses."

How kind of Saturn – we couldn't bring the lab instruments out to it so it provided one for us. Handy!