<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: With No Smoke or Mirrors, Spacecraft Hunts for Active Galaxies with Central Black Holes</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/</link>
	<description>Space and astronomy news</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun,  8 Nov 2009 12:25:54 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Jon Hanford</title>
		<link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/comment-page-1/#comment-49501</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Hanford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 19:38:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=23282#comment-49501</guid>
		<description>@Anaconda, since you state that well known, verifiable, testable knowledge &#039;demonstrate how &quot;off&quot; current astronomy is&#039;, Why not produce a list of  published peer-reviewed articles(in, say, Astrophysical Journal, Astronomical Journal, Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, Astronomy and Astrophysics, Physical Review parts A, B, C, and D or other well known peer-reviewed journals) of YOUR obviously brilliant theory along with say 25 to 50 published articles by other astrophysicists or physicists in total accordance with the vague theory you have put forward, along with published, incontrovertable observations in support of your theory along with many testable predictions derived from your theory. The should be a breeze, considering how many like-minded professionals agree and consult with each other on the nuances of your theory. This is how science works, Mr Anaconda, so please enlighten the entire physics and astrophysics communities of your published work and that of your many colleagues to set us on the correct path to the truth of the matter. I&#039;ve yet to see one article attributed to you (again, peer reviewed) in any reputable science journal. If your theory is so all-inclusive and a brilliant tour-de-force in the field of astrophysics, where are your learned  colleagues and multiple references to this theory you so passionately defend? The silence is deafening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Anaconda, since you state that well known, verifiable, testable knowledge &#039;demonstrate how &#034;off&#034; current astronomy is&#039;, Why not produce a list of  published peer-reviewed articles(in, say, Astrophysical Journal, Astronomical Journal, Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, Astronomy and Astrophysics, Physical Review parts A, B, C, and D or other well known peer-reviewed journals) of YOUR obviously brilliant theory along with say 25 to 50 published articles by other astrophysicists or physicists in total accordance with the vague theory you have put forward, along with published, incontrovertable observations in support of your theory along with many testable predictions derived from your theory. The should be a breeze, considering how many like-minded professionals agree and consult with each other on the nuances of your theory. This is how science works, Mr Anaconda, so please enlighten the entire physics and astrophysics communities of your published work and that of your many colleagues to set us on the correct path to the truth of the matter. I&#039;ve yet to see one article attributed to you (again, peer reviewed) in any reputable science journal. If your theory is so all-inclusive and a brilliant tour-de-force in the field of astrophysics, where are your learned  colleagues and multiple references to this theory you so passionately defend? The silence is deafening.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jon Hanford</title>
		<link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/comment-page-1/#comment-49477</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Hanford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 17:37:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=23282#comment-49477</guid>
		<description>If I were to follow Anaconda&#039;s thinking? that &#039;a theory that has to theorize &quot;unseen&quot; phenomenon&quot; to make it work&#039;  then I must surely think that alpha particles, neutrons, neutrinos &amp; quarks, to name a few, must definitely NOT exist since they were all theorized before their discovery. So now I can be totally comfortable in the knowledge that black holes, alpha particles, neutrons, neutrinos, quarks and the cosmic microwave background simply cannot exist because because these objects were theorized but unseen at the time will certainly make me sleep better at night. Thanks go to Aodhhan for the lone voice of reason in his response to the utter nonsense predicated by others responding to this article. It appears that most of the responders won&#039;t even meet you half way in checking out the facts for themselves just goes to show that so-called free thinkers are unwilling to even consider alternatives to their half-baked ideas &#039;Nuf time wasted in trying to enlighten these people who are unwilling or unable rationalize their &#039;theories&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I were to follow Anaconda&#039;s thinking? that &#039;a theory that has to theorize &#034;unseen&#034; phenomenon&#034; to make it work&#039;  then I must surely think that alpha particles, neutrons, neutrinos &amp; quarks, to name a few, must definitely NOT exist since they were all theorized before their discovery. So now I can be totally comfortable in the knowledge that black holes, alpha particles, neutrons, neutrinos, quarks and the cosmic microwave background simply cannot exist because because these objects were theorized but unseen at the time will certainly make me sleep better at night. Thanks go to Aodhhan for the lone voice of reason in his response to the utter nonsense predicated by others responding to this article. It appears that most of the responders won&#039;t even meet you half way in checking out the facts for themselves just goes to show that so-called free thinkers are unwilling to even consider alternatives to their half-baked ideas &#039;Nuf time wasted in trying to enlighten these people who are unwilling or unable rationalize their &#039;theories&#039;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anaconda</title>
		<link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/comment-page-1/#comment-49094</link>
		<dc:creator>Anaconda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:43:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=23282#comment-49094</guid>
		<description>Aodhhan:

All your statements, this and that demonstrate how &quot;off&quot; current astromy is.

You imagine this and that, but in reality &quot;black holes&quot; have never been observed, they are a product of mathematical abstraction, and &quot;black holes&quot;  are so etheral that they end up being a rorschach test for your imagination.

You need to get back to what science does best, observation and measurement.

Yet, that would prevent you from day-dreaming about &quot;black holes&quot; because there is no observation and measurement that verifies their reality.

Why were all these &quot;unobserved&quot; objects thought of at all?

Because the gravitational model didn&#039;t work without them.

Think of that: These objects would not even been dreamed of if the gravitational model worked without them.  But it didn&#039;t, so these objects were &quot;theorized&quot; to exist because they just had to because the gravitational has to be correct.

That is a brutally naked assumption.

A theory that has to theorize &quot;unseen&quot; phenomenon to make it work is in trouble.

The center of galaxies is a plasmoid of electrical energy.  Electrical currents are the predominate force in the Universe and gravity only has a secondary role, admittedly primary in the absence of charged bodies, but since 99% of the Cosmos is plasma, this limits gravity opportunity to be the predominate force.

The surface of the Earth is a neutral environment -- solids, liquids, and neutral gases predominate, but in space plasma -- charged particles, both electrons and ions predominate and flow in electric currents, Birkeland currents, that NASA has verfied flow from the Sun to the Earth.

That is why Man&#039;s science is slow to recognize plasma dynamics in space, because Man&#039;s first venue of scientific inquiry, the surface of the Earth is devoid of plasma.

But in space it is entirely different -- space probes are confriming the presence of electric currents and those scientific observations will only mount with time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aodhhan:</p>
<p>All your statements, this and that demonstrate how &#034;off&#034; current astromy is.</p>
<p>You imagine this and that, but in reality &#034;black holes&#034; have never been observed, they are a product of mathematical abstraction, and &#034;black holes&#034;  are so etheral that they end up being a rorschach test for your imagination.</p>
<p>You need to get back to what science does best, observation and measurement.</p>
<p>Yet, that would prevent you from day-dreaming about &#034;black holes&#034; because there is no observation and measurement that verifies their reality.</p>
<p>Why were all these &#034;unobserved&#034; objects thought of at all?</p>
<p>Because the gravitational model didn&#039;t work without them.</p>
<p>Think of that: These objects would not even been dreamed of if the gravitational model worked without them.  But it didn&#039;t, so these objects were &#034;theorized&#034; to exist because they just had to because the gravitational has to be correct.</p>
<p>That is a brutally naked assumption.</p>
<p>A theory that has to theorize &#034;unseen&#034; phenomenon to make it work is in trouble.</p>
<p>The center of galaxies is a plasmoid of electrical energy.  Electrical currents are the predominate force in the Universe and gravity only has a secondary role, admittedly primary in the absence of charged bodies, but since 99% of the Cosmos is plasma, this limits gravity opportunity to be the predominate force.</p>
<p>The surface of the Earth is a neutral environment &#8212; solids, liquids, and neutral gases predominate, but in space plasma &#8212; charged particles, both electrons and ions predominate and flow in electric currents, Birkeland currents, that NASA has verfied flow from the Sun to the Earth.</p>
<p>That is why Man&#039;s science is slow to recognize plasma dynamics in space, because Man&#039;s first venue of scientific inquiry, the surface of the Earth is devoid of plasma.</p>
<p>But in space it is entirely different &#8212; space probes are confriming the presence of electric currents and those scientific observations will only mount with time.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Aodhhan</title>
		<link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/comment-page-1/#comment-49005</link>
		<dc:creator>Aodhhan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 12:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=23282#comment-49005</guid>
		<description>You guys are both half right, and half wrong... along with using the correct words, just not in the correct way.

There are different parts and stages to black holes, and different things happen in all of them, and at times you are getting them mixed, and the paraphrasing of information you have found....somewhere... isn&#039;t exactly making you look good.

There is a lot  more to black holes than what you guys are attempting to state here... and there are plenty of good places to educate yourself, just make sure they are reputable.

Kill the word &quot;Postulate&quot; I don&#039;t know anybody who uses this word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You guys are both half right, and half wrong&#8230; along with using the correct words, just not in the correct way.</p>
<p>There are different parts and stages to black holes, and different things happen in all of them, and at times you are getting them mixed, and the paraphrasing of information you have found&#8230;.somewhere&#8230; isn&#039;t exactly making you look good.</p>
<p>There is a lot  more to black holes than what you guys are attempting to state here&#8230; and there are plenty of good places to educate yourself, just make sure they are reputable.</p>
<p>Kill the word &#034;Postulate&#034; I don&#039;t know anybody who uses this word.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anaconda</title>
		<link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/comment-page-1/#comment-48931</link>
		<dc:creator>Anaconda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 01:51:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=23282#comment-48931</guid>
		<description>All very well and good.  I appreciate your time laying out the description, but the problem still remains: The observation contradicts basic &quot;black hole&quot; theory, namely, that &quot;black holes&quot; derive from a collasped stars.  Stars are a product of galaxies.

Rather, than providing a detailed description based on theoretical, mathematical assumptions, a more fruitful approach might be to consider the possibility that Electric Universe theory has a better explanation:

&quot;Black holes&quot; don&#039;t exist so there is no chicken and the egg dilemma and the contradiction this observation imposes on &quot;black hole&quot; theory is therefore moot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All very well and good.  I appreciate your time laying out the description, but the problem still remains: The observation contradicts basic &#034;black hole&#034; theory, namely, that &#034;black holes&#034; derive from a collasped stars.  Stars are a product of galaxies.</p>
<p>Rather, than providing a detailed description based on theoretical, mathematical assumptions, a more fruitful approach might be to consider the possibility that Electric Universe theory has a better explanation:</p>
<p>&#034;Black holes&#034; don&#039;t exist so there is no chicken and the egg dilemma and the contradiction this observation imposes on &#034;black hole&#034; theory is therefore moot.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ScepticTim</title>
		<link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/comment-page-1/#comment-48909</link>
		<dc:creator>ScepticTim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=23282#comment-48909</guid>
		<description>sorry, the equation &quot;...soft quanta obeying ? = p.&quot; should read ...soft quanta obeying rho = p.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sorry, the equation &#034;&#8230;soft quanta obeying ? = p.&#034; should read &#8230;soft quanta obeying rho = p.&#034;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ScepticTim</title>
		<link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/comment-page-1/#comment-48908</link>
		<dc:creator>ScepticTim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=23282#comment-48908</guid>
		<description>Re: Anaconda
&quot;Still, the &quot;black hole&quot; theory postulates a black hole&#039;s gravitational pull is strong enough to capture light and all other matter.The abstract mathematical theory postulating the existence of &quot;black holes&quot; doesn&#039;t say they are &quot;super dense&quot; rather it postulates a &quot;point&quot; with infinite or near infinite gravitational pull.&quot;

A black hole can be considered to be an object, of sufficiently great mass and small volume, by an observer outside of the black hole, that this object has an event horizon. The event horizon acts as a one way membrane. Due to the strong gravitational field near the black hole, the light cones of the space time get tilted, so much so that their exterior boundary lies tangent to the horizon. The horizon thus acts as a one way membrane, i.e., no object, not even a light ray, that crosses it inwards can ever cross it back outwards. The exterior observer cannot have access to what formed the black hole.  The only thing the observer probes is the black hole mass M, electromagnetic charge Q, and
angular momentum J. (Sometimes referred to as a black hole has no hair.) As a result, any physical quantity, such as energy, entropy or information, that is dumped into the black hole remains permanently trapped inside, classically. The only way that an object will cross the event horizon is if it is falling into the black hole, similar to the way an object will fall into a star or the sun if it is not in a suitable orbit.

From the point of view of an observer (or object) outside the black hole we can ignore the physics inside the black hole (which is still a subject of much theoretical research.) and treat it as an object with specific dimensions and mass. For the mass of the Sun the event horizon radius is approximately 3 km. This object will then behave as if it were simply a very dense &quot;star&quot; and objects near it will behave classically. This object cannot &quot;suck&quot;. If the sun suddenly were to collapse (extremely improbable) into a black hole, the planets and other bodies would continue merrily on in their respective orbits: they would not be &quot;sucked&quot; into the sun.

Pawel O. Mazur1, and Emil Mottola2 have suggested an alternate endpoint for gravitational collapse in &quot;Gravitational Condensate Stars: An Alternative to Black Holes&quot; (arXiv:gr-qc/0109035 v5 27 Feb 2002)
By extending the concept of Bose-Einstein condensation to gravitational systems, a cold, compact object with an interior de Sitter condensate phase and an exterior Schwarzschild geometry of arbitrary total mass M is constructed. They show that an explicit static solution of Einstein’s eqns. taking quantum considerations into account exists, with the critical surface replaced by a thin shell of ultra-relativistic fluid of soft quanta obeying ? = p. Such a solution, lacking a singularity and an horizon is significant because it provides a stable alternative to black holes as the endpoint of gravitational collapse, possibly with different observational signatures. The assumption required for this solution to exist is that gravity undergoes a vacuum rearrangement phase transition in the vicinity of r = R_S .  Where R_S = 2GM is  the Schwarzschild radius corresponding to an infinite blue shift of the frequency of an infalling light wave with respect to its frequency far from the object. ( Strictly speaking the Schwarzschild radius is the event horizon in a non-rotating body. A rotating black hole can produce large amounts of energy at the expense of its rotational energy. In that case a rotating black hole gradually reduces to a Schwarzschild black hole.) 

There have also been other descriptions of the theoretical physics that may obtain inside of the event horizon. In any case, for an observer far from the object, it can be considered to be simply a &quot;very dense object&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Anaconda<br />
&#034;Still, the &#034;black hole&#034; theory postulates a black hole&#039;s gravitational pull is strong enough to capture light and all other matter.The abstract mathematical theory postulating the existence of &#034;black holes&#034; doesn&#039;t say they are &#034;super dense&#034; rather it postulates a &#034;point&#034; with infinite or near infinite gravitational pull.&#034;</p>
<p>A black hole can be considered to be an object, of sufficiently great mass and small volume, by an observer outside of the black hole, that this object has an event horizon. The event horizon acts as a one way membrane. Due to the strong gravitational field near the black hole, the light cones of the space time get tilted, so much so that their exterior boundary lies tangent to the horizon. The horizon thus acts as a one way membrane, i.e., no object, not even a light ray, that crosses it inwards can ever cross it back outwards. The exterior observer cannot have access to what formed the black hole.  The only thing the observer probes is the black hole mass M, electromagnetic charge Q, and<br />
angular momentum J. (Sometimes referred to as a black hole has no hair.) As a result, any physical quantity, such as energy, entropy or information, that is dumped into the black hole remains permanently trapped inside, classically. The only way that an object will cross the event horizon is if it is falling into the black hole, similar to the way an object will fall into a star or the sun if it is not in a suitable orbit.</p>
<p>From the point of view of an observer (or object) outside the black hole we can ignore the physics inside the black hole (which is still a subject of much theoretical research.) and treat it as an object with specific dimensions and mass. For the mass of the Sun the event horizon radius is approximately 3 km. This object will then behave as if it were simply a very dense &#034;star&#034; and objects near it will behave classically. This object cannot &#034;suck&#034;. If the sun suddenly were to collapse (extremely improbable) into a black hole, the planets and other bodies would continue merrily on in their respective orbits: they would not be &#034;sucked&#034; into the sun.</p>
<p>Pawel O. Mazur1, and Emil Mottola2 have suggested an alternate endpoint for gravitational collapse in &#034;Gravitational Condensate Stars: An Alternative to Black Holes&#034; (arXiv:gr-qc/0109035 v5 27 Feb 2002)<br />
By extending the concept of Bose-Einstein condensation to gravitational systems, a cold, compact object with an interior de Sitter condensate phase and an exterior Schwarzschild geometry of arbitrary total mass M is constructed. They show that an explicit static solution of Einstein’s eqns. taking quantum considerations into account exists, with the critical surface replaced by a thin shell of ultra-relativistic fluid of soft quanta obeying ? = p. Such a solution, lacking a singularity and an horizon is significant because it provides a stable alternative to black holes as the endpoint of gravitational collapse, possibly with different observational signatures. The assumption required for this solution to exist is that gravity undergoes a vacuum rearrangement phase transition in the vicinity of r = R_S .  Where R_S = 2GM is  the Schwarzschild radius corresponding to an infinite blue shift of the frequency of an infalling light wave with respect to its frequency far from the object. ( Strictly speaking the Schwarzschild radius is the event horizon in a non-rotating body. A rotating black hole can produce large amounts of energy at the expense of its rotational energy. In that case a rotating black hole gradually reduces to a Schwarzschild black hole.) </p>
<p>There have also been other descriptions of the theoretical physics that may obtain inside of the event horizon. In any case, for an observer far from the object, it can be considered to be simply a &#034;very dense object&#034;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anaconda</title>
		<link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/comment-page-1/#comment-48895</link>
		<dc:creator>Anaconda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=23282#comment-48895</guid>
		<description>ScepticTim:

Sorry for not using the correct the term of art.  Still, the &quot;black hole&quot; theory postulates a black hole&#039;s gravitational pull is strong enough to capture light and all other matter.

The abstract mathematical theory postulating the existence of &quot;black holes&quot;  doesn&#039;t say they are &quot;super dense&quot; rather it postulates a &quot;point&quot; with infinite or near infinite gravitational pull.

Why is infinite or near infinite required by gravitational theory?  Because gravity is a recognized &quot;weak &quot; force.

You simply can&#039;t get &quot;there&quot; (gravity being strong enough to capture light) without shooting up the gravitational pull to infinity or near infinity.

So while you can point out my failure to use correct terms of art, I&#039;ll point out your description of a &quot;black  hole&quot; is a palatable description which is itself a failure to use correct terms of art.

More to the point of my comment is that the observations and theory are in contradiction.

Hikker 9965 is correct when he states that Plasma Cosmology explains this observation better than &quot;black hole&quot; theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ScepticTim:</p>
<p>Sorry for not using the correct the term of art.  Still, the &#034;black hole&#034; theory postulates a black hole&#039;s gravitational pull is strong enough to capture light and all other matter.</p>
<p>The abstract mathematical theory postulating the existence of &#034;black holes&#034;  doesn&#039;t say they are &#034;super dense&#034; rather it postulates a &#034;point&#034; with infinite or near infinite gravitational pull.</p>
<p>Why is infinite or near infinite required by gravitational theory?  Because gravity is a recognized &#034;weak &#034; force.</p>
<p>You simply can&#039;t get &#034;there&#034; (gravity being strong enough to capture light) without shooting up the gravitational pull to infinity or near infinity.</p>
<p>So while you can point out my failure to use correct terms of art, I&#039;ll point out your description of a &#034;black  hole&#034; is a palatable description which is itself a failure to use correct terms of art.</p>
<p>More to the point of my comment is that the observations and theory are in contradiction.</p>
<p>Hikker 9965 is correct when he states that Plasma Cosmology explains this observation better than &#034;black hole&#034; theory.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hiker 9965</title>
		<link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/comment-page-1/#comment-48884</link>
		<dc:creator>Hiker 9965</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 20:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=23282#comment-48884</guid>
		<description>That artist&#039;s rendition of a galaxy looks quite a bit like what the Electric Universe proponents might draw.  Look at those filiments.  

I thought the EU&#039;s ideas were banned by mainstream astronomy.  This artist will probably never have another drawing published again.  Sad.

The evidence in favor of the EU is clear.  Its time to call off the search for black holes.  They don&#039;t exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That artist&#039;s rendition of a galaxy looks quite a bit like what the Electric Universe proponents might draw.  Look at those filiments.  </p>
<p>I thought the EU&#039;s ideas were banned by mainstream astronomy.  This artist will probably never have another drawing published again.  Sad.</p>
<p>The evidence in favor of the EU is clear.  Its time to call off the search for black holes.  They don&#039;t exist.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: ScepticTim</title>
		<link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/comment-page-1/#comment-48871</link>
		<dc:creator>ScepticTim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:23:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=23282#comment-48871</guid>
		<description>Re:Anaconda: your observation that &quot;...&quot;black holes&quot; supposedly suck in all matter even light...&quot; is not correct.
Black holes do not &#039;suck&#039;. A black hole is simply a &quot;super dense&quot; object with a gravitational well consistent with its size and mass. For example, if the sun were replaced with a black hole having the same mass, the orbits of the planets would not noticeably change - the radiation environment might, however, be uncomfortable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:Anaconda: your observation that &#034;&#8230;&#034;black holes&#034; supposedly suck in all matter even light&#8230;&#034; is not correct.<br />
Black holes do not &#039;suck&#039;. A black hole is simply a &#034;super dense&#034; object with a gravitational well consistent with its size and mass. For example, if the sun were replaced with a black hole having the same mass, the orbits of the planets would not noticeably change &#8211; the radiation environment might, however, be uncomfortable.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anaconda</title>
		<link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/comment-page-1/#comment-48865</link>
		<dc:creator>Anaconda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 17:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=23282#comment-48865</guid>
		<description>Beautiful illustration and as I understand galaxy dynamics faithful to the energies released, detected, and measured, however, this illustration contradicts the idea of  &quot;black holes&quot;. 

Too much energy released from the center, and an accretionary disc would not be able to eject material with such energy and, of course, &quot;black holes&quot; supposedly suck in all matter even light.

So, there is a contradiction between the observation (aided by the artist&#039;s rendering) and the theory.

Observation and measurement win every time.

This illustration and the raw data supporting it are more consistent with electromagnetic dynamics as opposed to gravitational dynamics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beautiful illustration and as I understand galaxy dynamics faithful to the energies released, detected, and measured, however, this illustration contradicts the idea of  &#034;black holes&#034;. </p>
<p>Too much energy released from the center, and an accretionary disc would not be able to eject material with such energy and, of course, &#034;black holes&#034; supposedly suck in all matter even light.</p>
<p>So, there is a contradiction between the observation (aided by the artist&#039;s rendering) and the theory.</p>
<p>Observation and measurement win every time.</p>
<p>This illustration and the raw data supporting it are more consistent with electromagnetic dynamics as opposed to gravitational dynamics.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jon Hanford</title>
		<link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/comment-page-1/#comment-48849</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Hanford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 15:23:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=23282#comment-48849</guid>
		<description>I have no qualms about using an illustration to represent a complex, many faceted concept that has been confirmed and published in a peer-reviewed article (e.g. extrasolar planets with known properties derived from astronomical observations). Not all astronomical discoveries lend themselves to photogenic illustrations of the observed phenomena.  I also wonder if other Xray telescopes( such as Chandra, XMM-Newton, Integral, ASCA, to name a few) lend themselves to similar observations along these lines &amp; if time is available on them to conduct such a survey. Great article, Nancy, &amp; kudos to Pavo Padovani for his excellent interpretation of an obscured AGN in a galaxy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no qualms about using an illustration to represent a complex, many faceted concept that has been confirmed and published in a peer-reviewed article (e.g. extrasolar planets with known properties derived from astronomical observations). Not all astronomical discoveries lend themselves to photogenic illustrations of the observed phenomena.  I also wonder if other Xray telescopes( such as Chandra, XMM-Newton, Integral, ASCA, to name a few) lend themselves to similar observations along these lines &amp; if time is available on them to conduct such a survey. Great article, Nancy, &amp; kudos to Pavo Padovani for his excellent interpretation of an obscured AGN in a galaxy.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Chris Coles</title>
		<link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/comment-page-1/#comment-48815</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Coles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 10:15:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=23282#comment-48815</guid>
		<description>My immediate reservation is simply that in every other branch of astronomy we have the advantage of actual images rather than an &quot;illustration&quot; taken, not by the astronomical instrument, but from the imagination of the illustrator.  If we are to believe the &quot;illustration&quot; we also need to see for ourselves the raw data image so that we can all compare our interpretation with that of the illustrator. Without that back up of real data, no one can be certain that the illustration is accurate and if there is an aspect of interpretation, then who is the official arbiter of the imagination of the illustrator? No disrespect made or intended to the illustrator of the above &quot;illustration&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My immediate reservation is simply that in every other branch of astronomy we have the advantage of actual images rather than an &#034;illustration&#034; taken, not by the astronomical instrument, but from the imagination of the illustrator.  If we are to believe the &#034;illustration&#034; we also need to see for ourselves the raw data image so that we can all compare our interpretation with that of the illustrator. Without that back up of real data, no one can be certain that the illustration is accurate and if there is an aspect of interpretation, then who is the official arbiter of the imagination of the illustrator? No disrespect made or intended to the illustrator of the above &#034;illustration&#034;.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: drbubo</title>
		<link>http://www.universetoday.com/2009/01/06/with-no-smoke-or-mirrors-spacecraft-hunts-for-active-galaxies-with-central-black-holes/comment-page-1/#comment-48804</link>
		<dc:creator>drbubo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 07:27:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.universetoday.com/?p=23282#comment-48804</guid>
		<description>I do not want to be the first to comment</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not want to be the first to comment</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
