anyone who thinks they really know anything is not always a fool

but still my point is intact…everyone here including myself is a fool

first of all, no one will learn anything if you get all worked up and set on only what you believe

when everyone is calm and not trying to kill each other over internet cables and such maybe we'll all be able to explain our views in a less heated manner that will either allow people to be saved into the grace of God or allow people to realize that there is no God….if everyone just clears their mind and approaches this topic coolly instead of losing their tempers then one of those two things will definitely happen and everyone on this site will be surprised which way it goes….including me because i don't profess to know how things will turn out in the end

anyone of you people who claim that they know for absolute certainty there is no God just because they haven't looked for the evidence is a fool
and anyone of you who claims they know there is a God just because that's how you grew up and you didn't go on your own spiritual journey is also a fool

and anyone who thinks they really KNOW anything is a fool
and yes
i am a fool

so let's just chill out and calm down 'kay?

Chris Says:
December 25th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
the true mystery that puzzles me is do people still believe this ?

Chris Says:
December 26th, 2008 at 3:51 am
How can people still follow the church when they still cling to their outdated belief in creationism.
wave their "bible" (book of stories) as the only evidence they have that a god exists.

It worked when there was no real intelligence and no real science.

Chris Says:
December 30th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Take your free will and stick it where the sun doesn't shine

Chris Says:
December 30th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
@terrece I have thrown them away…
exactly olaf you never get extremist atheists killing people because of their religon.

Chris Says:
January 1st, 2009 at 1:03 pm
@tareece
You really do live in the dark ages
… like the way you quote the book of stories (bible) at me. Are you saying I am evil or filthy. As I am neither just because I don't believe in god. You will be burning me at the stake next. Just for your information I probably help more people in a day than you do in a year.

Burn you at the stake? No kiddo… That I would never do. That task is reserved for yourself.

Read your own hatred aimed at a person that you've never met but choose to vilify.
I am GLAD you do for others. I am GLAD you think for yourself.

But your own anger betrays your own insecurity, and frankly goes over the line into a deep felt extremist POV most would associate with the worst examples of radical
religion.

If you have the EVIDENCE of "the Missing God" please, do tell so I can make a case on the other hand.
What happened 1000-2000 yrs ago is simply conjecture today resulting from our intrepretations of yesteryears accounts.
I say there is a God. You say there isn't . One of us is right and the other mistaken…Worse case, I'll be wrong and will have maggots eating out myeyeswithin a couple of weeks after I pass….
Best case… well, for me???? I'm saved, my faith rewarded… and well you're wrong..and still forgiven.

@tareece
You really do live in the dark ages. How many different species of ape are there. As a species we humans evolved from a species of ape that guess what isn't around today as we evolved.
I like the way you quote the book of stories (bible) at me. Are you saying I am evil or filthy. As I am neither just because I don't believe in god. You will be burning me at the stake next. Just for your information I probably help more people in a day than you do in a year.
I dont show religous hate I just think people like you need to fully need to appreciate science and nature before believing in a supreme being. Maybe if you weren't brainwashed as a child you would understand.

Religon is outdated face up to it.

Science is sometimes wrong yet you believe in something that has absolutly no evidence whatsoever in existing.

- Theism is defined as those who have the belief in the existence of god or gods who made the universe and has influence (or creation) on its origin or destiny.
- Agnosticism is given as someone who thinks that only the material world exists. As such, they are people who say they have no faith in god or gods nor has the view that they disbelieve in god or gods.
- Atheism just defines that these gods or gods don't exist at all. (passively)
- Antitheism further refines this position that god or gods not only doesn't exist, but is actively against all theism altogether

Arguments, like these religious matters, fails because people don't distinguish which camps they are in. Religious people often wrongly claim agnostics (scientists) are instead lumped in as atheists; when based on scientific principles, and most cannot claim nor dismiss god or gods because no physical evidence can prove the existence of either god or gods. Agnostics are therefore just people without faith. (faithless -without the context of not believing) Therefore, they are not necessarily against those with faith nor denying theism. Religious people often see this as a penultimate wedge, claiming that there is real physical evidence of god or gods existence beyond just their personal religious faith. This is why the tenants (via dogma) of the various religions cannot let the fabled icons or places like the Star of Bethlehem, Noah's Ark, Jesus' birth or burial place, Mecca, etc., not exist, as this only proves the arguments of proponents of agnosticism and science. Furthermore, an agnostic can have disbelief on the part or most of religion's dogma. I.e. Rejecting moral or ethnic precepts, or still searching for alternative truths or points of view. etc..
Atheists however take agnosticism one-step further, by totally denying the existence of any god or gods. Often this manifests as a personal belief that kept to oneself, where those of faith still have the freedom. Most religions wrongly accuse atheists of not tolerating their religious freedoms or being against them holding 'faith'. Theists also often label atheists as having opposition to God and being against their piety or reverence – but by definition this is not true.
Actually those who are against religion altogether, and set out to undermine its authority, limit displays of faith or ban religions altogether are actually antitheists and NOT an necessarily atheists.
If you must argue on issues like this one, it is important you label someone on their level of religious faith. Those arguing here do not appear to understand these differences make only meaningless statement without either understanding others point of view.
IMO, I truly dislike the well-designed "closed loop" of the Christian faith (and Islam, too), whose circular arguments of what ever they believe cannot stray beyond either narrow dogma, differences in interpretation or reality or nature of the physical world, other moral standards or viewpoints, etc.
This explains why I said;
———–
"In my own view, It has always amazed my why it necessitates applying religious faith that has to so heavily rely on portents via miracles, mythology, fable or simple circumstance – just to validate its own dogma."
If your faith has to so heavily rely on ancillary information and authenticity just for validation – therefore the practitioner of faith just simply doesn't understand their core tenants of their religion
Really, the Star of Bethlehem is plainly supposed to be a symbol of hope – symbolic of the coming of a Messiah – no more, no less.

Following any religious belief system hook line and sinker (to me) involves a lot of hypnotism and a simplistic understanding of the universe.

And as far as our physics THEORIES always being right, there was something quite recent that was going on that couldn't be explained by our current knowledge (er, theories) of physics. Can't recall exactly, but I'm sure you can google it. Under "Physics Turned on Ear"… or perhaps, "Physics- What we don't know"

Ok Olaf.. We find a planet that we think is habitable, ohhhhh I don't know, 1×10>10000 AU away from us…. Dang we found a needle in a haystack! and that its moving away from us at an incredible speed it is a fanicful notion that we'll ever go see/communicate to any large degree with our brethren of the universe.

LOL… Chris, I guess you are free to wish bad things onto me and to do as you wish, you only further prove me correct.
"Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy, and the righteous still do right, and the holy still be holy." (Revelations 22.11).

ok Chris…. In labs rodents have a biology similar to us and people experiment with them to see how drugs might affect us…. So, u r a rat and I am an Ape?
Another thing… If we are evolved from apes, why are there still apes? Were they slow learners?
Why is there 100's of species "thought to be extinct" surfacing almost daily (or quite frequently anyway)?
You mean to tell me science was wrong? naaahhh, a misake in data? Surely there just couldn't be something that science can't explain away.
I've been very cordial. Yet I've been smacked around by angry people who profess the ability to rise above little things like religion…profess to be better yet constantly prove they are not.
You simply show your religious hate of others who disagree w/ your "enlightment"… ohh shit, that sounds like Islam..

I do not expect people to believe me blindly, just I ask them to check for themselves and think critically.

I just want my science sites back without those 2012 and religious nuts.

We may not have the answers but at least we are true to ourselves and acknowledge that. Instead of pretending like we do have the answers like religions.

You all deserve a beer, have a happy new year and don't forget to keep asking the hard questions ! for if we don't then nobody will !

peace

Look at Israel fully armed to the teeth by the US blowing the crap out of children and other innocent people.
They may blame the rockets that come from Palestine but how can 4 Israeli deaths justify 400 Palestinians dead.
Remember Israel is supposed to be the religous centre of the world for many faiths. Look at all the trouble that causes.

Heaven is right here right now, but we have to become responsible for our own actions and create heaven ourselves. There is absolutely no reason why people in this world are starving to death, not having no food or not having no water.

And so far when I observe reality, religion is beeing used to actually turn this Earth into a hell. The best example is rigth now in Israel. Those people have their morals imbedded (cemented) into the bible, but they are killing people. You will not find Atheists out there. Atheists are probably found in the red cross helping those people wounded.

@terrece I have thrown them away
You go on about coincidences, your not looking at the universe as a whole. Think of how many stars there are in our medium sized galaxy, billions. How many galaxys are there 1000's of billions. If you then look at the discoveries that occur almost daily now of planets orbiting nearby stars. It is only going to be a matter of time before we find a planet that is capable of sustaining life outside of our solar system. If you say that 0.0001 % of all the stars in the universe, have planets that are capable of sustaining life you would be talking about millions of planets.
Its not a matter of coincidences but a matter of odds. At somepoint you will get a planet in the safe zone where life can florish.
We are some of the lucky ones.
Evolution is a fact people face up to it. Look at apes and how similar they are to us, you cannot ignore that.
It has occured over millions of years and for the last few 1000's of years people are still going back by supporting faiths that were created in a time when the Earth was the centre of the galaxy.

If a supreme being was to create a species why would he create it with flaws such as birth defects, mental illness, susceptability to cancer and other such illnesses.
If he did create us (which he didnt) it would be some kind of a sick joke to see all of these kids dying through malnutrition and other such attrocities that occur everyday without doing anything.

Take your free will and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

@olaf – you hit the nail on the head

What made things out of nothingness? Simple question for a bunch of rocket scientists isn't it? What ignited the 1st nuclear reaction that caused the universe to begin?
Saying that "I am me, and I know there is no God so I can do as I wish" shows how shortsighted athiests are. It is THAT shortsightedness that ALLOWS them to do as they please with no regard for their immortal soul and no consequence for their actions. "Free will" is exactly that. God allows us to reduce ourselves and live according to our own rules. Hes not stopping Frazier, or Chris or anyone from their earthly beliefs. But when you consider all of the other "perfect coincidences" for us being here, right here and now with noone around for billions of milesin a rapidly expanding universe and galaxy….you are very alone, and insignificant. Perhaps the universe has declared its experiment with us a failure and running away from us in all directions? lol

Roger says:
"But I do think that moral should be thought out of the context of religion … if not when the young generation chose atheism they will ignore moral values because they associate it with religion… young Europeans are already mostly atheists. "

Morality should be thought as right/wrong…but without a moral/religious base to cement it in (ie a God who is the final arbiter of our afterlife) people reduce themselves to their lowest denominator and disregard all that was taught to them.
Yeah, Euro youth is exactly the picture I think of when I think of what I want my kids to be…….

And Chris sayeth:
"Oh and dont bless me I dont want/need your blessings."

You got them anyways, throw them away if you must.

the only reason i can think of would be that it justifies any crappy decisions youve made in your life

If God has planned your life, then next thing you will accept the government planning your life.

And they can say, god planned for us to plan your life