Comments on: Forget the LHC, the Aging Tevatron May Have Uncovered Some New Physics http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/ Space and astronomy news Sun, 8 Nov 2009 10:14:11 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: one of me http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-2/#comment-42963 one of me Tue, 25 Nov 2008 22:50:14 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-42963 You're all going about this the wrong way. You can't do it with a machine, you do it with your mind. Because of fear I,ve never actually completed but vow today that the next time I will. You're all going about this the wrong way. You can't do it with a machine, you do it with your mind. Because of fear I,ve never actually completed but vow today that the next time I will.

]]> By: Jamahl Peavey http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-2/#comment-39609 Jamahl Peavey Mon, 10 Nov 2008 22:40:21 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-39609 The LHC will not discovery anything that will increase understanding. The quality of two Nobel Prizes rest on the LHC. The electroweak unification and symmetry breaking. The evolution of physics is not based on theoretical or experimental physics. It based on conceptual physics. The conceptual physicist can only advance this theory if it explains previous theories. Quantum physic did not explain any previous theories they abandoned them as so abandon hundreds of years of physics because Bohr and his friends where not smart enough to break the code. Einstein knew this is where they would be. Big machine and no real understanding. Einstein was a conceptual physicist and he did more for physics in 1905 then any super machine. The LHC will not discovery anything that will increase understanding. The quality of two Nobel Prizes rest on the LHC. The electroweak unification and symmetry breaking. The evolution of physics is not based on theoretical or experimental physics. It based on conceptual physics. The conceptual physicist can only advance this theory if it explains previous theories. Quantum physic did not explain any previous theories they abandoned them as so abandon hundreds of years of physics because Bohr and his friends where not smart enough to break the code. Einstein knew this is where they would be. Big machine and no real understanding. Einstein was a conceptual physicist and he did more for physics in 1905 then any super machine.

]]> By: Jetlack http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-2/#comment-39300 Jetlack Sat, 08 Nov 2008 12:50:40 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-39300 Could not the particle whatrever it was have quantum tunnelled the tube? Hence why it appears to have travelled FTL. Could not the particle whatrever it was have quantum tunnelled the tube? Hence why it appears to have travelled FTL.

]]> By: LLDIAZ http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-2/#comment-39152 LLDIAZ Fri, 07 Nov 2008 14:51:58 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-39152 "somethings" popping in and out of existence doesn't sound like they have a grasp of what there dealing with. So how can they with 100% certainty say everything is safe.. "somethings" popping in and out of existence doesn't sound like they have a grasp of what there dealing with. So how can they with 100% certainty say everything is safe..

]]> By: Brad http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-2/#comment-39061 Brad Fri, 07 Nov 2008 00:44:57 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-39061 Dark Energy + Dark Matter = a catchy label to hang on a whole load of observations we don't understand yet. Dark Energy + Dark Matter = a catchy label to hang on a whole load of observations we don't understand yet.

]]> By: Emission Nebula http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-2/#comment-39027 Emission Nebula Thu, 06 Nov 2008 20:56:33 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-39027 Has there been any updates on this yet? Has there been any updates on this yet?

]]> By: marcellus http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38998 marcellus Thu, 06 Nov 2008 15:28:43 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38998 It's the beginning of Warp Drive. It's the beginning of Warp Drive.

]]> By: quantum_flux http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38936 quantum_flux Thu, 06 Nov 2008 05:20:03 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38936 Popping into existance could be the disintegration of a neutral charge too, or perhaps a position-momentum measurement effect related to probability amplitudes as per Twister Theory. Popping into existance could be the disintegration of a neutral charge too, or perhaps a position-momentum measurement effect related to probability amplitudes as per Twister Theory.

]]> By: jozef k http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38874 jozef k Wed, 05 Nov 2008 20:10:14 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38874 Wow, having come from Batavia, I must say that i'm excited to hear news that my town's claim to fame isn't completely exhausted yet... Really interesting though.. I wonder what happens next. Keep us updated please :D Wow, having come from Batavia, I must say that i'm excited to hear news that my town's claim to fame isn't completely exhausted yet…

Really interesting though.. I wonder what happens next. Keep us updated please :D

]]> By: Ruggy http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38790 Ruggy Wed, 05 Nov 2008 08:29:25 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38790 Might these be strangelets? Might these be strangelets?

]]> By: Chris http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38785 Chris Wed, 05 Nov 2008 06:47:41 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38785 Feel free to check my math but due to relativistic effects the muon is moving at 85.75% the speed of light. Not 60% over C Feel free to check my math but due to relativistic effects the muon is moving at 85.75% the speed of light. Not 60% over C

]]> By: Bertie http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38732 Bertie Tue, 04 Nov 2008 23:19:33 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38732 I hate to burst you're collective bubbles, but the 20 picosecond lifetime given above is not the time it took the particle to travel the distance of approx. 1cm (assuming they where detected 0.25cm outside the beam) The article doesn't say what the measured travel time, if travel occured, is. What the lifetime of 20 picoseconds means is that in the special relativistic reference frame of the partcle, it traverses the distance (which would be considerably contracded in said ref frame and easily as little as 0.1mm) in 20 picoseconds. Go to the following page and read under the heading "Experimental Evidence for Time Dilation: Dying Muons" It might not be a reffereed source, but it is correct. Consult a text if you don't believe it. http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu/lectures/srelwhat.html Note: I'm not saying the particle is a muon through using this comparison. If you got that impression, read again. Ok, bye. :) I hate to burst you're collective bubbles, but the 20 picosecond lifetime given above is not the time it took the particle to travel the distance of approx. 1cm (assuming they where detected 0.25cm outside the beam) The article doesn't say what the measured travel time, if travel occured, is. What the lifetime of 20 picoseconds means is that in the special relativistic reference frame of the partcle, it traverses the distance (which would be considerably contracded in said ref frame and easily as little as 0.1mm) in 20 picoseconds. Go to the following page and read under the heading "Experimental Evidence for Time Dilation: Dying Muons" It might not be a reffereed source, but it is correct. Consult a text if you don't believe it.

http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu/lectures/srelwhat.html

Note: I'm not saying the particle is a muon through using this comparison. If you got that impression, read again.

Ok, bye. :)

]]> By: Adam http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38715 Adam Tue, 04 Nov 2008 21:26:45 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38715 Well, the original paper actually says "produced outside of the beam pipe of radius 1.5cm" (see http://arxiv.org/abs/0810.5357) which doesn't necessarily mean that the particles traveled 1cm. Doing a *very* quick look at the paper I didn't find the researchers suggesting that the particle actually traversed that distance. They just don't know, it seams. The jury is still out... /Adam Well, the original paper actually says "produced outside of the beam pipe of radius 1.5cm" (see http://arxiv.org/abs/0810.5357) which doesn't necessarily mean that the particles traveled 1cm. Doing a *very* quick look at the paper I didn't find the researchers suggesting that the particle actually traversed that distance. They just don't know, it seams. The jury is still out…

/Adam

]]> By: Ian O'Neill http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38710 Ian O'Neill Tue, 04 Nov 2008 20:28:04 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38710 Hey, you're right ioresult. I wish I'd bothered to calculate the velocity of this new "undiscovered" particle. By my calculations, light can only travel 0.6 cm in 20 picoseconds. Therefore, this "thing" will have travelled at the velocity of 5×10^8 m/s, that's 60% faster than light... My calculating skills might be a bit rusty, but I feel this is significant! 8) Hey, you're right ioresult. I wish I'd bothered to calculate the velocity of this new "undiscovered" particle. By my calculations, light can only travel 0.6 cm in 20 picoseconds. Therefore, this "thing" will have travelled at the velocity of 5×10^8 m/s, that's 60% faster than light…

My calculating skills might be a bit rusty, but I feel this is significant! 8)

]]> By: Joe Shobe http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38708 Joe Shobe Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:57:57 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38708 You've got to be right there. Light travels about 3cm in 100 picoseconds. You've got to be right there. Light travels about 3cm in 100 picoseconds.

]]> By: ioresult http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38704 ioresult Tue, 04 Nov 2008 19:07:57 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38704 To travel 1cm in 20 picoseconds you must be going at 67% above light speed. If that's not a stupid journalist's mistake, this really could mean new physics! To travel 1cm in 20 picoseconds you must be going at 67% above light speed. If that's not a stupid journalist's mistake, this really could mean new physics!

]]> By: Ayti http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38690 Ayti Tue, 04 Nov 2008 15:57:59 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38690 Why after 25 years does the data suddenly show something new? Have there been changes to the experimental setup? Higher energy? More sensitive detectors? Faster or more sophisticated software? I hope the existing data from the past 2.5 decades show something that indicates they've been missing this phenomenon all along because right now, the skeptic in me is scratching his head double-time. It all sounds very exciting though. Why after 25 years does the data suddenly show something new? Have there been changes to the experimental setup? Higher energy? More sensitive detectors? Faster or more sophisticated software?

I hope the existing data from the past 2.5 decades show something that indicates they've been missing this phenomenon all along because right now, the skeptic in me is scratching his head double-time.

It all sounds very exciting though.

]]> By: Tom Mallard http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38687 Tom Mallard Tue, 04 Nov 2008 15:31:31 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38687 http://www.mallard-design.com http://www.mallard-design.com

]]> By: Adam http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38664 Adam Tue, 04 Nov 2008 12:27:37 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38664 @ SanitysEdge What it means is rather that the detectors weren't the kind that could see the particles. I guess some slowly moving chargeless guys could do this. Unfortunately, this might be just a malfunction because a clear mismatch in the amount of produced particles compared to what is expected would probably be noticed before. But then again, it's usually the unexpected that leads to discoveries. /Adam @ SanitysEdge
What it means is rather that the detectors weren't the kind that could see the particles. I guess some slowly moving chargeless guys could do this. Unfortunately, this might be just a malfunction because a clear mismatch in the amount of produced particles compared to what is expected would probably be noticed before. But then again, it's usually the unexpected that leads to discoveries.

/Adam

]]> By: Afonso http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38659 Afonso Tue, 04 Nov 2008 11:44:39 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38659 2010 Nobel prize stuff, after confirmation by the LHC... 2010 Nobel prize stuff, after confirmation by the LHC…

]]> By: s0l http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38656 s0l Tue, 04 Nov 2008 11:12:10 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38656 LOL Rey! :p LOL Rey! :p

]]> By: Rey http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38649 Rey Tue, 04 Nov 2008 09:13:02 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38649 Is Gordon Freeman part of this project? If he is, then we're doomed :D . Is Gordon Freeman part of this project? If he is, then we're doomed :D .

]]> By: autumn http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38644 autumn Tue, 04 Nov 2008 07:03:48 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38644 Provisional theories and the ability to absorb unexpected data by accepting the limited applicability of one's understanding! Science works! Provisional theories and the ability to absorb unexpected data by accepting the limited applicability of one's understanding!
Science works!

]]> By: Astrofiend http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38643 Astrofiend Tue, 04 Nov 2008 06:57:30 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38643 Intriguing... but I guess we'll just have to wait and see what eventuates. I'd say most likely there is some sort of mundane explanation, but it'd be simply great if there weren't! LHC experiments would then be a whole new ball game, and we could finally kick off the new post standard-model era of physics for real! It would be a fitting crowning achievement for Tevatron and the scientists that work there, and it'd be a grandiose batton-pass to the LHC - throwing down the gauntlet if you will... Intriguing… but I guess we'll just have to wait and see what eventuates. I'd say most likely there is some sort of mundane explanation, but it'd be simply great if there weren't!

LHC experiments would then be a whole new ball game, and we could finally kick off the new post standard-model era of physics for real! It would be a fitting crowning achievement for Tevatron and the scientists that work there, and it'd be a grandiose batton-pass to the LHC – throwing down the gauntlet if you will…

]]> By: SanitysEdge http://www.universetoday.com/2008/11/03/forget-the-lhc-the-aging-tevatron-may-have-uncovered-some-new-physics/comment-page-1/#comment-38641 SanitysEdge Tue, 04 Nov 2008 06:07:22 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=20663#comment-38641 Things appearing to pop in and out of existence? Sounds like there are some extra dimensions we don't fully understand yet. Things appearing to pop in and out of existence? Sounds like there are some extra dimensions we don't fully understand yet.

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