Comments on: Phoenix Suffers Unknown Problem with Sample Analysis Oven

By: Marsbug

Marsbug — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 08:38:14 +0000

The american international affairs budget for 2007 was 36 billion dollars. NASA's total budget for 2008 was 17.6 billion, of which only 4.4 billion was allocated to science. Mars missions are only a small subset of the total science budget. Phoenix cost around 400 million dollars, spread across four or five years at least. So no I don't see how cancelling mars exploration will make the slightest difference to international relations.
And I agree with many of Kevin M's points: No amount of money can buy us peace, and having adventures like these is part of what makes me glad to wake up in the morning

By: Kevin M.

Kevin M. — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 05:10:34 +0000

"There is too much to be accomplished here on earth then to be fooling around wasting brain-power and resources on determining if there is water or microbes on Mars. "

We will never solve the social or economic problems on Earth, and determining if there is life on Mars is exactly what our brain-power and resources are good for. Looking to new horizons is what gives us the hope and ambition to go forward, despite the inevitable suffering and evil of social disasters in this world. Therefore, Pheonix is precisely the solution to the problems of Earth.

All this exploration of space is not really a technical achievement at all, it is really the spiritual search and journey of man to the inside of himself, to know himself better. Machines, like the entire material world, are merely the vehicle for achieving what are really spiritual ends.

Phoenix promises a major step torwards the extremely significant goal of finding life, a much bigger "spiritual" breakthrough even than landing on the moon, and we must always pay some steep price in blood, sweat and treasure for the hubris of overcoming the limitations of nature. The greater the reward, the higher the price we must pay to reach it. God is with us in all these endeavors, he does not hold them in contempt. But nature must be paid its pound of flesh.

There may be supposed "laws of nature", but here is a "law of the spirit" for you: the machines will always balk on us if we are not spiritually ready for the outcome, or have not yet paid the human price worth of the reward. It does not matter if the machines are in perfect working order, they will not function if they are sent in the wrong spirit, or ahead of their time.

Right now, we must sweat and labor a little more yet with Phoenix, this is no time to abandon it, in its finest hour, you dont abandon friends in their time of crisis. What Phoenix is after is the profoundest thing man can right now attempt to accomplish, not an "earthly" conquest of power, gold or territory, but the most purely spiritual thing of all: knowledge, both self-knowledge and the knowledge of the vast presence and beauty of all the other life, and lives, in the universe.

The truth IS out there, in spades, and it will always be precisely our job to find it.

By: David S

David S — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 04:35:57 +0000

"Q: Where do POSITIVE electrons come from?"

Positrons! yay, antimater!

I think the real problem is the regolith is dark mater!

By: Ralph Rewes

Ralph Rewes — Tue, 10 Jun 2008 01:02:18 +0000

Whatever happen to Phoenix taking pictures? And then NASA does not want people to come up with coverup theories!!

By: Chuck Lam

Chuck Lam — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 22:20:33 +0000

I suspect the monies spent on the Mars folly would produce far more benefit worldwide if invested in, let's say, paying more qualified people to manage America's international relations. Thus the killing and maiming in the middle east just might be mitigated a bit and we could all be proud of something truly worthwhile. There is too much to be accomplished here on earth then to be fooling around wasting brain-power and resources on determining if there is water or microbes on Mars. We are becoming dangerously top-heavy with stupidity.

By: Marsbug

Marsbug — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 13:52:01 +0000

I think that question has been done to death on the forum and other places. Suffice to say a great many people place space exploration against other national efforts like the middle east wars, compare prices and say: at least space exploration isn't killing and maiming thousands and costs a tiny fraction as much, and is something a great many take a lot of pride in.

By: Chuck Lam

Chuck Lam — Mon, 09 Jun 2008 13:40:58 +0000

Hmm . . . men . . . boys . . . price of toys! Here is a question that begs an answer.
Who will benefit most and why from this expensive effort?

By: Krazikemist

Krazikemist — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 19:16:52 +0000

to PHWilson;

" . .. bombarded with positive electrons. " Q: Where do POSITIVE electrons come from?

By: PHWilson

PHWilson — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 15:12:52 +0000

Seriously though, if the solar batteries can store enough charge, this experiment might be best done during the night phase when Mars is not so directly bombarded with positive electrons. Just a thought.

By: PHWilson

PHWilson — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 15:07:03 +0000

Maybe the arm can pass an anti-static cloth over the filter. Oh noooo – who forgot to pack the Snuggle dryer sheets!

By: neoguru

neoguru — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 12:18:57 +0000

Ouch! It's obvious that the samples have a static charge – you can clearly see dust clinging to the scoop tenaciously. "Static cling" could easily clog a fine filter, not allowing the sample to pass thru the sieve, especially with lower gravity. Dispensing the sample with a vibrator would tend to increase a static charge. It could be a serious and unforseen problem.

By: joe

joe — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:36:21 +0000

so maybe the sensor failed. Don't tell me they can't turn on the oven to see if they get results.

By: Brian Sheen

Brian Sheen — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 06:46:45 +0000

Not really surprised that Phoenix has a sieving problem To be sure it is not easy to see what exactly is going on.

However having spent many years sieving clay soil samples to 50 micron and below for English China Clays Research I am aware of difficulties.

If there is any salt present then it will stick the soil together, a similar effect occurs if water is present ie ice that has melted when brought to the surface.

By: Claude Miller

Claude Miller — Sun, 08 Jun 2008 02:48:57 +0000

The first sample for scientific analysis dug from the surface of the Mars was the Viking spacecraft.