Comments on: Mars Settlement Pioneers Will Face Huge Psychological Challenges

By: SignMeUp

SignMeUp — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 21:34:20 +0000

Considering we live in a man-made, unnatural society, confined to either the walls of our houses, the walls of our cars, or the walls of our cubicles – who *are* these people they worry about going crazy from being confined?!? When was the last time you were "outdoors" for more than 15 minutes??? LOL

By: Aodhhan

Aodhhan — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 16:11:40 +0000

The true psychology of this cannot be studied by simulated methods near Earth or even the moon.
Why?
Because in the back of the minds of the participants is the fact they can be rescued or saved.

Things change dramatically when you remove this variable from the equation.

How many things would you second guess, if you thought some things out 10 or 20 steps? When your life is at stake, people over emphasize and over think.

Add some of those steps are dependent upon you and whomever is with you (who you cannot control by the way).

By: Maxwell

Maxwell — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 03:22:11 +0000

The costs are high because the method of travel has not been standardized for anything beyond small run production lines. You're building a custom craft for every journey. This requires the attention of high wage earning scientists to design, assemble, troubleshoot, and maintain.

Do that with a car and the costs would be so high you couldn't argue to colonize California by driving across the US. Despite the simplicity of the journey. .
I'd think we need serious research of what it would cost to mass produce reliable heavy lift rockets before ruling out where we can and cant afford to go.
By the sounds of it theres more to work with on mars than on the moon. Which could translate to less equipment and a lower cost, despite the time to travel there.

Besides, theres a good chance we will never see star trek level technology. To sit around here waiting for it is a waste of extremely valuable time.

By: Kevin M.

Kevin M. — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 02:17:45 +0000

Or read "A Canticle for Leibowitz" and send monks. The religious specialize in concentrated and regimented living, communal or individual, are naturally dedicated scientists, and have a social context for handling stress and conflicts. We might have to recognize that going to Mars might need to be more of a cultural colonization than a scientific one. Science does not exist in a social vacuum, and humans can only handle so much stress, period. So send up married couples as well, and plan for reproductive acitivity. Sex and religion are the two great social menders and stabilizers. Also plan for a justice and medical system to iron out inevitable conflicts, death, and disease, including mental disease., Houston will be too far away to be of any real use, and there are too many human variables over time to think we will be able to handle it. Perhaps a few intrepid "advance" loners at first, there have always been some who respond to perilous adventure. Humans are not such wimps as we think, we are a race of cold-blooded survivors. Otherwise, we need to acknowledge from the start that the initial missions are likely to be suicide missions, the chances are slim that everyone, or anyone, will survive. There is far too much potential for mishap. It's a death-defying process just going to the space station! What in the world makes us think we can get to Mars without liberal expenditure of lives and money?

By: Chuck Lam

Chuck Lam — Wed, 04 Jun 2008 01:32:43 +0000

It's fascinating why most folks speak of getting to Mars for an extended stay or for colonization purposes as a matter of simply crossing the Atlantic. I sense they do not have the slightest clue how mind-boggling expensive, difficult and hazardous a Mars project will be. The psychological problems will be childs play to manage with existing drugs. The getting there, setting up housekeeping on the surface for as little as a month and returning in one piece probably won't be possible until the next century, if ever. How will doing this grandiose thing with Mars benefit mankind? The return on investment is highly questionable. The brain power and money wasted on this folly would be better invested in solving the myriad of problems facing our culture today. If we take care of the present now, there just might be something left to finance our curiosity going to Mars in the future.

By: Cosselbray

Cosselbray — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 18:18:01 +0000

The people who took those "long sea voyages of the age of exploration" also had the added disadvantage of not knowing what they may find. Compare "Here there be Monsters" on an old map to the data we have from Spirit, opportunity, phoenix etc. Yes, we will have challenges but, they thrived and so can we.

By: John -- www.moonposter.ie

John -- www.moonposter.ie — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 14:52:29 +0000

To Bill:
Yes, several studies have been done with long-term prisoners, as well as thirteen-month-long stays (wintering) in the Antarctic, three-month long stays onboard submarines, and, of course, six-month-long stays on the ISS. The results haven't all been positive.

How about these quotes taken from people who have worked in space — "All one needs to effect a murder is to lock two men in a cabin for two months" or, Interpersonal distrust, dislike, misunderstanding and poor communication have led to potentially dangerous situations." Of records taken of shuttle missions that totalled over 4000 hours in space, 34 behaviourial signs and symptoms of anxiety and annoyance were reported by crew members to medical staff. And in the wintering studies on Earth, individuals showed symptoms of withdrawel, depression, schizophrenia, impulsive behaviour, while groups illustrated intra-group conflict, perceived favouritisim, and incompetence by dysfunctional leaders. While going to Mars sounds very nice indeed, the final individuals chosen will have to be very special indeed.

I think Mars should be the second option right now at this moment in our space exploration, with going to the Moon our first. We can learn so much from lunar experiences — living, working, constructing, experimenting, making mistakes….etc., as well as the behaviourial side of things — that all these will eventually pay for the long run towards Mars.

John — http://www.moonposter.ie

By: Bill Moore

Bill Moore — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:47:19 +0000

Has anyone studied the effects of long-term imprisonment and applied any results to long-term space travel? It seems there could be several studies conducted on this group that would correlate to a Mars journey. Several factors wouldn't obviously apply, but some similarities would.

By: alphonso richardson

alphonso richardson — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:45:48 +0000

It's good that people are carrying out theses tests. regardless of what we may beleive, each situation is different, but we have a wealth of past experience to draw on to help, as others posting to this article have pointed out.

By: vesnas

vesnas — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 12:45:06 +0000

"Space exploration is as natural to us as it was for our ancestors to discover new continents". Yes, we belong to stars, our future is up there. It won't be easy for the first ones, but it's destiny of the pioneers to open the door! I envy the future generations, so many beautiful things ahead!
And I agree with Astrofiend :
Read the MARS trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson, you'll get to know so many things

By: Richad Kirk

Richad Kirk — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:47:44 +0000

When Nansen set off in the "Fram" they packed six years of food in case they were stuck in the ice longer then they expected. Amundsen spent an extra winter doing the North-West passage which he might have avoided because he wanted to learn the native survival techniques. I don't know if Norway still turns out such headbangers, but it can't hurt to ask.

By: Blackblade

Blackblade — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 11:10:48 +0000

The U.S. Navy has operated ballistic missile submarines for decades, with the crews remaining submerged and at sea for several months at a time: http://www.pigboats.com/bg/bluegold.html

(page describing life on an SSBN several decades ago, but it's still relevant)

Additionally, there is a potential for undersea mining and resource collection which may mean operating bases undersea with long rotation times as well.

Really, the answer is simple: just send introverts, keep them supplied with plenty of games, and make sure there's a finite time they have to spend there — none of that weird one-way trip stuff.

By: Mags

Mags — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 10:46:19 +0000

What is, after 40 minutes or so, no one answered back? What if no one EVER answered back?

By: John -- www.moonposter.ie

John -- www.moonposter.ie — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 10:22:54 +0000

I wrote recently about the whole psychology problems that long-distance space travellers are likely to experience — e.g. leadership roles, gender/age problems, crew compatibility & heterogeneity…etc. So if anyone needs more info., on this, please contact me through my site — http://www.moonposter.ie — and I can send you on the material.
I also also cover the most recent series of long-duration Earth environments programmes, and there's even a Q&A to see if you are of the right stuff for such missions.

PS. The Moon poster — the most detailed around — isn't bad either.
John

By: Quantum_Flux

Quantum_Flux — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 07:59:35 +0000

I'd go to Mars if there was a 2 way travel deal….none of this 1 way ticket stuff though.

By: autumn

autumn — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 06:06:47 +0000

My first thought is that the present generation of humans is so woefully unprepared to face actual interaction that a forty minute delay in communications would actually be advantageous to them.
The trick is how to keep them from communicating with each other.

Let's just ship up teen-agers with Game-Boys, as long as they have batteries, they won't speak a single word to each other.

By: Ravens_Cry

Ravens_Cry — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 05:12:30 +0000

I hope I live to see that, I really do.

By: Silver Thread

Silver Thread — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 04:00:09 +0000

It's the moment of truth, all of those winners of Survivor will be put to the final test, a trip to Mars. Who's love lives will survive and who's will succumb to the ravages of space travel, find out tonight on SURVIVOR MARS!

By: Maxwell

Maxwell — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 03:25:35 +0000

Don't need the moon.
Just send em to antartica, alaska, siberia or some other remote and desolate place for a year and turn off their internets.

That way your guineapigs can have all the time needed to lose their marbles without leaving earth.

By: Darnell Clayton

Darnell Clayton — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 02:29:34 +0000

The best way to test this out (in my honest opinion) is to star a lunar colony on the far side of the Moon (with 6 month rotations).

Scientists could mimic what astronauts would feel like being unable to (literally) see Earth, and could imitate the 40 min. delay as well.

While I think most trained astronauts would be able to handle it, its better to "work out the bugs" now, rather than face the consequence half way to the red planet.

By: GI Joe

GI Joe — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 02:22:52 +0000

Here's a decent starting point on selecting a Mars crew:

No crybabies.

By: Ravens_Cry

Ravens_Cry — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 01:45:26 +0000

There may be technological differences, but I don't see the difference between this and the long sea voyages of the Age of Exploration. Yes, you could breath the air, and even do a little fishing, but the problems were the same or even worse. 40 Minutes to get a message from your loved ones, oh no how will we cope?! It is doable, it will be difficult, no one says it won't be, but it is doable. North America and Australia are proof of that.

By: Astrofiend

Astrofiend — Tue, 03 Jun 2008 01:29:29 +0000

Read the MARS trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson, especially (Red) Mars for a pretty good idea what may happen to some people. I think he thought out the reactions that people may go through quite well…