Comments on: Soyuz Capsule Hatch Nearly Burned Up and Crew's Lives Were on a "Razor's Edge" http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/ Space and astronomy news Fri, 6 Nov 2009 00:18:02 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: ChucK Cooper http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-2/#comment-19058 ChucK Cooper Sun, 27 Apr 2008 02:43:29 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-19058 This problem with the Soyuz has happened before, BTW James Oberg is a recognized expert on the Russia//USSR space program: http://www.jamesoberg.com/soyuzsecret.html This problem with the Soyuz has happened before, BTW James Oberg is a recognized expert on the Russia//USSR space program:

http://www.jamesoberg.com/soyuzsecret.html

]]> By: Brad http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18946 Brad Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:15:00 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18946 Clearly there needs to be some guidance and official policy for the Russians so that they don't shoot their mouths off until the facts are established. This includes cover-ups, misleading information and pure superstitious gibberish. Sometimes no news is good news boys. Clearly there needs to be some guidance and official policy for the Russians so that they don't shoot their mouths off until the facts are established. This includes cover-ups, misleading information and pure superstitious gibberish. Sometimes no news is good news boys.

]]> By: Ian O'Neill http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18871 Ian O'Neill Thu, 24 Apr 2008 01:17:15 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18871 Thank you Astrofiend, I wholeheartedly agree with all that you've said. And you are totally correct - this is a sensational article because it is a sensational story. I'm not anti-Russian either, I'm just stunned by how this whole affair has been handled. As a side note if anyone thinks this reporting is hardline, have a read of this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24243569/ and then compare with what I've said... Thanks! Ian :) Thank you Astrofiend, I wholeheartedly agree with all that you've said. And you are totally correct – this is a sensational article because it is a sensational story. I'm not anti-Russian either, I'm just stunned by how this whole affair has been handled.

As a side note if anyone thinks this reporting is hardline, have a read of this: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24243569/ and then compare with what I've said…

Thanks!

Ian :)

]]> By: Astrofiend (Syd, Aust) http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18867 Astrofiend (Syd, Aust) Wed, 23 Apr 2008 23:57:29 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18867 "PD Holloway Says: April 23rd, 2008 at 1:28 pm I have to agree with most of the observations by my fellow contributers. Where is the scientific method in your reporting? Shouldn't the goal be as you yourself have said you would try to adhere to; accuracy. " "Come on! Let's stick to science. Conspiracy that, conspiracy this. No one has the whole story yet to accurately report the facts. Filling up this space with that garbage isn't what most of us like about this site." Despite whether you like these types of stories or not, UT does not solely exist to cater to your specific preferences, or even the preferences of the majority. This story is space related, and so is quite within the domain of UT subject matter. Read the stories you're interested in, and ignore those you are not. The article is accused of being sensationalist, but there are a number of extraordinary facts slowly coming to light in this situation. The fact that the Russians denied there was a problem at first then prematurely and publicly blaming the cosmonauts for the problem, an extraordinary comment regarding women mission specialists from a person in a key role at the space agency and a number of other factors are quite rightly outed in the article as being extraordinary for a supposedly highly professional team. Yes, it is true we don't have the full story yet, but the article both states and implies this very fact about ten times. It is a report on an emerging story, so treat it as such. When the tragic Columbia disaster happened, would you expect the news to report the event to you despite initially sketchy information and then fill in the details as they emerged, or wait 3 months until all the facts were in and then report it? Jeez.... I'm no anti-Russian - I have a great respect for their accomplishments in space both contemporary and historic. But the actions of the Russian space agency in this instance have been quite incredible and worthy of being reported in the news. "PD Holloway Says:
April 23rd, 2008 at 1:28 pm

I have to agree with most of the observations by my fellow contributers. Where is the scientific method in your reporting? Shouldn't the goal be as you yourself have said you would try to adhere to; accuracy. "

"Come on! Let's stick to science. Conspiracy that, conspiracy this. No one has the whole story yet to accurately report the facts. Filling up this space with that garbage isn't what most of us like about this site."

Despite whether you like these types of stories or not, UT does not solely exist to cater to your specific preferences, or even the preferences of the majority. This story is space related, and so is quite within the domain of UT subject matter. Read the stories you're interested in, and ignore those you are not.

The article is accused of being sensationalist, but there are a number of extraordinary facts slowly coming to light in this situation. The fact that the Russians denied there was a problem at first then prematurely and publicly blaming the cosmonauts for the problem, an extraordinary comment regarding women mission specialists from a person in a key role at the space agency and a number of other factors are quite rightly outed in the article as being extraordinary for a supposedly highly professional team.

Yes, it is true we don't have the full story yet, but the article both states and implies this very fact about ten times. It is a report on an emerging story, so treat it as such. When the tragic Columbia disaster happened, would you expect the news to report the event to you despite initially sketchy information and then fill in the details as they emerged, or wait 3 months until all the facts were in and then report it?

Jeez…. I'm no anti-Russian – I have a great respect for their accomplishments in space both contemporary and historic. But the actions of the Russian space agency in this instance have been quite incredible and worthy of being reported in the news.

]]> By: PD Holloway http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18860 PD Holloway Wed, 23 Apr 2008 22:25:06 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18860 Come on! Let's stick to science. Conspiracy that, conspiracy this. No one has the whole story yet to accurately report the facts. Filling up this space with that garbage isn't what most of us like about this site. On another note (as others have noted), that vehicle must have been engineered very well to have escaped what could have been years of delay along with loss of life. That is a story in itself. We tend to think of our Russian comrades to be a little behind us but it is apparent that at least in this regard they've built something that under those extreme conditions survived while we have not enjoyed the same success since Appolo and the drama that followed that explosive event. So lets leave the junck behind us and just stick to the facts, mame. Come on! Let's stick to science. Conspiracy that, conspiracy this. No one has the whole story yet to accurately report the facts. Filling up this space with that garbage isn't what most of us like about this site.
On another note (as others have noted), that vehicle must have been engineered very well to have escaped what could have been years of delay along with loss of life. That is a story in itself. We tend to think of our Russian comrades to be a little behind us but it is apparent that at least in this regard they've built something that under those extreme conditions survived while we have not enjoyed the same success since Appolo and the drama that followed that explosive event. So lets leave the junck behind us and just stick to the facts, mame.

]]> By: PD Holloway http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18857 PD Holloway Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:28:33 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18857 I have to agree with most of the observations by my fellow contributers. Where is the scientific method in your reporting? Shouldn't the goal be as you yourself have said you would try to adhere to; accuracy. Other than that this is without doubt (with the exception for political points of view) the one place that gives us what we grave so. Astronomy. Best stick to that. I have to agree with most of the observations by my fellow contributers. Where is the scientific method in your reporting? Shouldn't the goal be as you yourself have said you would try to adhere to; accuracy. Other than that this is without doubt (with the exception for political points of view) the one place that gives us what we grave so. Astronomy. Best stick to that.

]]> By: Kootstar http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18849 Kootstar Wed, 23 Apr 2008 19:01:45 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18849 OK, let's cool our emotional missles at one another and see what happens next. This has happened, (yes, just like other problems with space missions before it) but the greatest challenge will be to find the true cause and fix that. I can't do it, but I want to hear about it being done. If we (here on forum!) gripe too much about the writing of the article, no one may want to write about that, and I am anxious to hear (read) about it. OK, let's cool our emotional missles at one another and see what happens next. This has happened, (yes, just like other problems with space missions before it) but the greatest challenge will be to find the true cause and fix that. I can't do it, but I want to hear about it being done. If we (here on forum!) gripe too much about the writing of the article, no one may want to write about that, and I am anxious to hear (read) about it.

]]> By: Lawrence McCurrach http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18845 Lawrence McCurrach Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:14:28 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18845 You shouldnt ask 5 billion people, but you do have to ask 300million of them, seeing as its their money be used in this program. Tbh Scott, what you said could have come straight out the mouth of any number of budding authoritarians. You shouldnt ask 5 billion people, but you do have to ask 300million of them, seeing as its their money be used in this program.

Tbh Scott, what you said could have come straight out the mouth of any number of budding authoritarians.

]]> By: Gerald http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18844 Gerald Wed, 23 Apr 2008 17:13:43 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18844 Scott, "Nothing is worse for the space program than the public." How can you say this? Without the public, there would be no space program. Without the public, there would be no reason for a space program! Do you really see the "space program" as some kind of elitist, private club that the public should pay for but otherwise butt out? Scott,
"Nothing is worse for the space program than the public." How can you say this? Without the public, there would be no space program. Without the public, there would be no reason for a space program! Do you really see the "space program" as some kind of elitist, private club that the public should pay for but otherwise butt out?

]]> By: The Scott http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18838 The Scott Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:20:49 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18838 Kei... not just you but you're the most recent... Information solicits nothing but blame. The only thing the public is concerned about is whose fault it is. It doesn't matter if there were no casualties.. public release on CNN of this incident would just bring a whole bunch of know-nothing and care-not people clamoring for someone's job. Nothing is worse for the space program than the public. It is extremely dangerous to go into space, but every time there is a setback or an accident, the only thing you can hear from the public is how so and so is covering it up or trying to downplay it. Why do they do that? Maybe it has something to do with every time there is something to talk about, the large majority of the public, who really know two things about space (one of them is Jack) demand that there are public apologies, a whole bunch of people get fired, and we have fresh debates about whether or not we are actually wasting our money on the space program. Personally, I think the actions of the space program should not be influenced by public opinion; after all, I would not ask a manager at Krispy Kreme how to teach a horse to take a saddle. I would not ask a maintenance foreman at Frito Lay how to drift a race car around a curve at 90 mph. Why should I ask 5 billion people whom I already know have no idea what the heck is going on what their opinion is? Kei… not just you but you're the most recent…

Information solicits nothing but blame. The only thing the public is concerned about is whose fault it is.

It doesn't matter if there were no casualties.. public release on CNN of this incident would just bring a whole bunch of know-nothing and care-not people clamoring for someone's job. Nothing is worse for the space program than the public. It is extremely dangerous to go into space, but every time there is a setback or an accident, the only thing you can hear from the public is how so and so is covering it up or trying to downplay it. Why do they do that?

Maybe it has something to do with every time there is something to talk about, the large majority of the public, who really know two things about space (one of them is Jack) demand that there are public apologies, a whole bunch of people get fired, and we have fresh debates about whether or not we are actually wasting our money on the space program.

Personally, I think the actions of the space program should not be influenced by public opinion; after all, I would not ask a manager at Krispy Kreme how to teach a horse to take a saddle. I would not ask a maintenance foreman at Frito Lay how to drift a race car around a curve at 90 mph. Why should I ask 5 billion people whom I already know have no idea what the heck is going on what their opinion is?

]]> By: tontotoo http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18837 tontotoo Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:39:25 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18837 Why should anyone be surprised that this isn't on the nightly news? I get all my news from the Internet now, the MSM is an antique waste of time. Ever see the Today program? Two minutes of news bits, the rest is dedicated to cooking and fashion segments and other stupidity. Why should anyone be surprised that this isn't on the nightly news? I get all my news from the Internet now, the MSM is an antique waste of time.

Ever see the Today program? Two minutes of news bits, the rest is dedicated to cooking and fashion segments and other stupidity.

]]> By: kei knewth butler http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18834 kei knewth butler Wed, 23 Apr 2008 15:21:40 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18834 Tabloid, sensationalism, yellow sheet journalism....... Get off it! 1. The Russians, and I'll bet USofA officials knew tried to cover up a serious and dangerous situation. 2. The comments about 'women onboard...' show them making light of the situation in hopes of covering it up. 3. The fact that the capsule came down bass-ackwards and did NOT turn the occupants into crispy critters shows the ruggedness of the re-entry capsule. 4. This 'don't tell' mindset, which Bush practices feeely, shouldn't surprise anybody. 5. Let's locate the cause, fix the problem and get on with it. Cover-up's cover asses that do not have a tailbone. Information solicits solutions. Tabloid, sensationalism, yellow sheet journalism…….

Get off it!

1. The Russians, and I'll bet USofA officials knew tried to cover up a serious and dangerous situation.

2. The comments about 'women onboard…' show them making light of the situation in hopes of covering it up.

3. The fact that the capsule came down bass-ackwards and did NOT turn the occupants into crispy critters shows the ruggedness of the re-entry capsule.

4. This 'don't tell' mindset, which Bush practices feeely, shouldn't surprise anybody.

5. Let's locate the cause, fix the problem and get on with it. Cover-up's cover asses that do not have a tailbone. Information solicits solutions.

]]> By: Alice Kottmyer http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18821 Alice Kottmyer Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:59:40 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18821 What amazes me is this: I haven't seen any mention of this in any of the mainstream media. The fact that the lives of astronauts, including a US astronaut, were hanging on a "razor's edge" for awhile seems to be at least as important as the "surgery on the six-legged cat," which is one of CNN's current headlines (not that I have anything against his surgery ..) Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place. What amazes me is this: I haven't seen any mention of this in any of the mainstream media. The fact that the lives of astronauts, including a US astronaut, were hanging on a "razor's edge" for awhile seems to be at least as important as the "surgery on the six-legged cat," which is one of CNN's current headlines (not that I have anything against his surgery ..)

Maybe I'm just not looking in the right place.

]]> By: Adam http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18819 Adam Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:00:51 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18819 @ Rich Faulkner News story? Can it be trusted? We all know that the reporting in mass media can be fairly inaccurate as far as technical facts go. How much of a deviation from the standard procedure was that, BTW? @ Rich Faulkner
News story? Can it be trusted? We all know that the reporting in mass media can be fairly inaccurate as far as technical facts go. How much of a deviation from the standard procedure was that, BTW?

]]> By: Rich Faulkner http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18816 Rich Faulkner Wed, 23 Apr 2008 10:32:50 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18816 Yes, the capsule does right itself on reentry. In a news story I saw last night, the capsule was still attached to the service module upon reentry. It was supposed to be seperated before that time. It was during rentry that the two finally seperated and the capsule righted iteself. But not until after the damage was done to the nose of the scraft. The Russians should be more forth-coming and take ownership of the problem. Once that is done, the problems can be solved. It never hurts to say, "it looks like we have a problem here that needs to be solved." Yes, the capsule does right itself on reentry. In a news story I saw last night, the capsule was still attached to the service module upon reentry. It was supposed to be seperated before that time. It was during rentry that the two finally seperated and the capsule righted iteself. But not until after the damage was done to the nose of the scraft.

The Russians should be more forth-coming and take ownership of the problem. Once that is done, the problems can be solved. It never hurts to say, "it looks like we have a problem here that needs to be solved."

]]> By: Adam http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18811 Adam Wed, 23 Apr 2008 09:10:35 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18811 Just a little nitpicking @pantzov. It's not the friction that causes the high temperatures but the compression of the air in front of whatever object is flying through the atmosphere. The nerds, please, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerodynamic_heating Sorry, I just had to! :-) Just a little nitpicking @pantzov. It's not the friction that causes the high temperatures but the compression of the air in front of whatever object is flying through the atmosphere.

The nerds, please, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerodynamic_heating

Sorry, I just had to! :-)

]]> By: pantzov http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18808 pantzov Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:48:55 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18808 i think you are doing a good job covering this story. it's unfortunate that there was a malfunction but i am still amazed at how tough that little capsule is. imagine the friction on that hatch and the thing still (just barely) kept its integrity. i think you are doing a good job covering this story. it's unfortunate that there was a malfunction but i am still amazed at how tough that little capsule is. imagine the friction on that hatch and the thing still (just barely) kept its integrity.

]]> By: Wrap http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18805 Wrap Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:19:34 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18805 Lets not forget Columbia and Chalenger.. Things were much worse with them. Naturally everybody started to blame everyone. Lets not forget Columbia and Chalenger.. Things were much worse with them. Naturally everybody started to blame everyone.

]]> By: Adam http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18804 Adam Wed, 23 Apr 2008 08:03:05 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18804 Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know the aerodynamic shape of the Soyuz capsule is such that it should align itself "automatically" the right way on reentry. Is there someone out there who can confirm or deny this? If this is right it would cast doubts on the reports that the escape hatch was in danger of burning through. Just wondering... Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I know the aerodynamic shape of the Soyuz capsule is such that it should align itself "automatically" the right way on reentry. Is there someone out there who can confirm or deny this? If this is right it would cast doubts on the reports that the escape hatch was in danger of burning through. Just wondering…

]]> By: Vanamonde http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18797 Vanamonde Wed, 23 Apr 2008 05:59:10 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18797 Mr. Clarke, I personally do not see UT as a tabloid or having a bia against Russia. But after review several other sources, this story does have that tabloid favor as the authorities in Russa hem and haw and spin and and respin. Personally, they are starting to sound like my own countries masters, in the afterward of the Katrina disaster. But these is spaceflight and relevant to the mission of UT. Thank you, UT! Keep up the good work. And down with sexism! Mr. Clarke, I personally do not see UT as a tabloid or having a bia against Russia. But after review several other sources, this story does have that tabloid favor as the authorities in Russa hem and haw and spin and and respin.

Personally, they are starting to sound like my own countries masters, in the afterward of the Katrina disaster.

But these is spaceflight and relevant to the mission of UT.

Thank you, UT! Keep up the good work.

And down with sexism!

]]> By: Jon Clarke http://www.universetoday.com/2008/04/22/soyuz-capsule-hatch-nearly-failed-and-crews-lives-were-on-a-razors-edge/comment-page-1/#comment-18791 Jon Clarke Wed, 23 Apr 2008 04:12:14 +0000 http://www.universetoday.com/?p=13820#comment-18791 Is this "Universe Today" or a tabloid? "Cover up", "shocking revelations ", anonymous" sources are not phrases I would normally associate with this site, but a witch hunting sensationalist blog with an anti-Russian bias. Yes, something did go wrong, but the crew survived, were recovered safely, and the mission was a success. Details will emeerge progressively and the problems will be solved. Until then let's have less of the senationalism. Let's not forget that Soyuz has an excellent safey record. It has flown 89 missions in 37 years without a fatality. Is this "Universe Today" or a tabloid?

"Cover up", "shocking revelations ", anonymous" sources are not phrases I would normally associate with this site, but a witch hunting sensationalist blog with an anti-Russian bias.

Yes, something did go wrong, but the crew survived, were recovered safely, and the mission was a success. Details will emeerge progressively and the problems will be solved. Until then let's have less of the senationalism.

Let's not forget that Soyuz has an excellent safey record. It has flown 89 missions in 37 years without a fatality.

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