Trust me, you haven't room for debate because you aren't in the same league. Interesting thoughts about the redshift, where did you hear them from? I bet you couldn't have come up with them on your own.

You let your favorite scientists tell you what to think and you believe them no matter what their reasons are because you aren't scientists yourselves and are incapable of understanding anything about the laws of nature.

You have the right to believe whatever you want, and you are not ignorant if you remain skeptical of popular science. But don't pretend you understand and start debating because you will lose if you don't have the education.

Please stop giving your own cause a bad reputation by your ignorant flames. Investigate the matter using your own brain and then you can begin to ask questions. Are you searching for understanding and knowledge, or are you just trying to prove that you don't know how to use the brain that God gave you?

Stop being stupid!

Markus, have you heard or seen the clip from "The View" where one of the women on the show said that nothing preceded Jesus or that she never thought about whether the Earth was flat or round, but only worried about how she was going to feed her child.

Our galaxy is moving through the universe. This can be measured by looking at the cosmic background radiation. That gives us the speed and direction.

From there, it is easy to correct for this when measuring redshift's of other galaxies.

Damn you are right. The old fashioned religions are so boring with their commandments.
sciencebabble allows to speculate and medidate without the need to follow rules.

Great

That's very true. We never saw the concept of dark matter and dark energy until we had no choice but to accept that things happening out there were not fitting the predictions…perhaps dark matter is really just areas of super-dense space-time…anything passing through it slows down, including light itself…

there must be a reason why the universe expansion is increasing in velocity. I'm sure we are only scratching the surface, if at all.

The photon particles being measured are reaching us from matter at the edge of the visible universe 46 billion light years away and they are coming at us from many directions (from matter that actually used to be located much closer to us in fact).Why there? They represent the oldest photons ever, because they were created when the expanding proton and electron plasma universe that was devoid of light for 400000 years after the big bang began to form hydrogen due to cooling (caused by expansion). At that point the first ever photons were created all over the universe and spread across the universe in all directions. They're still spreading because the universe is expanding as they cross it.

I sort of use this scenario when i think about it…imagine a man is asked to cross a bridge made out of a giant rubberband held unstretched from end to end. He runs across the bridge but, as he's running, the bridge is being stretched and lengthens at a rate equal to the rate at which he travels across it…it can be seen that as he travels, the total distance he needs to travel gets longer with time…therefore he takes a much much longer time to cross the rubberband bridge than if the bridge was never stretched in the first place.

I saw an estimate which indicated that, at the time these photons that we are now measuring left the mass that they were emitted from (now the galaxies at the edge of visible space), the distance between the distant mass and the mass that formed earth was only about 40 million light years. Since then the distance has expanded to more than 46 billion light years!!!

The photons will continue to reach us as the visible universe expands and will allow us to calculate increasingly accurate estimations of the age of the universe as long as we continue to measure them.

Yes, I agree with your definition of fringe, but I believe tacitus was using the word "fringe" when he was actually meaning "lunatic fringe".

In other words, he was being sarcastic, which just shows his bias.

Otherwise radar use in airports, military jets, police cruisers etc also wouldn't be able to use the Doppler effect (which IIRC involves a shifting of frequencies as they are bounced off moving objects) to measure velocity and direction.

Mikel, concerning Arp and him being fringe, a fringe opinion or theory is fringe by virtue of not being in the mainstream. Many of the currently accepted theories were at one time or another fringe, but that is no basis for deciding on their validity as for every fringe theory that is widely accepted there's a hell of a lot of forgotten fringe theories that have fallen by the wayside.

Rather, he lists a sizable number of wars which WERE fought on purely ideological religious grounds, which one would logically suppose wouldn't have taken place did religion not exist.

Sure, there'd still be wars over resources and race and whatever else but there'd be less wars than there are now.

Eric, there are many reasons to suspect that the universe wasn't created by a supreme being, even though I concede that it remains possible.